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NEW DAY
Protests Spill Over into Other Cities; Rep. Cummings Face-to- Face with Protesters; Report: Prisoner Claims Gray Tried to Injure Himself; More Survivors Found Days After Nepal Quake. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired April 30, 2015 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thousands protest from coast to coast.
[05:58:36] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Tensions are rising all across the country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When do we want it? Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When do we want it? Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When do we want it? Now!
CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST: Curfew, once again the moment of truth in Baltimore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're proud of our city. We're going to demand justice for Freddie Gray.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My heart breaks for these young men and their families.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you worry about?
TOYA GRAHAM, MOTHER OF RIOTER: I worry about him walking out my front door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn't want me to be, like, another Freddie Gray and get killed by the police.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CUOMO: Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, April 30, 6 a.m. in the east. As you can see, Alisyn and Mick are in New York, and there's plenty of news there. But we are going to start here in Baltimore.
The good news we have this morning, the 10 p.m. curfew allowing for relative calm. But there are new questions this morning about what happened to Freddie Gray inside that police van, fueling even louder demands for answers.
Many see tomorrow as the day those answers would come, but we all know that is just one day that the police will get their -- their findings to prosecutors. Hardly the satisfaction that people want here, Alisyn. But we'll tell you all the reporting this morning.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, we'll get back to you in a second.
There's anger spilling across the country beyond Baltimore. Thousands taking to the streets in New York, Washington, Minneapolis and Ferguson, Missouri, last night. We begin our team coverage with CNN's Rosa Flores on the growing outrage -- Rosa.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, good morning.
Emotions are high across the country. Take a look at this map just showing some of the few cities that do have some of these protests.
But let me tell you something: there's a common message here. And that message is that police brutality is a national issue.
Now, some of the worst protests right here in New York city. Take a look at this video. About 100 people were arrested. The evening started off very peacefully, but hear this. It erupted when there was a small scuffle between police and protesters. Twenty people ended up in zip ties.
And then protesters started marching towards Times Square. And it only got worse. Again, about 100 people ended up in handcuffs.
We move on to Washington, D.C. The situation here more festive than confrontational, a lot of these protesters singing on the streets. Once they moved to the White House, that crowd of about 500 disbursed.
Then we've got more violence, but this time in Denver. People took to the streets in downtown. You can see them there with police in tow. Here, about 11 arrests. Some of those charges including -- including resisting arrest and assault on police officers.
Now, we've got to say, as the cities on this map grows, we know one thing. And that's that a lot of these protests are organized on social media, and thousands upon thousands of people are showing up for these protests, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, Rosa. We see it's coming up, a lot of the issues are the same, but the outcome is different everywhere. Here in Baltimore thousands of police and National Guard added to
the mix. And we have just as many outraged citizens. The tension between the two would come down to when the clock struck 10. And here's what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go home. You may not remain in a public place.
CUOMO (voice-over): Curfew, once again the moment of truth in Baltimore.
(on camera): You now have about 300 people here who aren't sure whether they want to leave or not.
(voice-over): Thousands of National Guard added to the mix. Police assembling equipment and forming the line.
(on camera): We just had armored show up. You have the police here in bigger numbers.
(voice-over): Color sparking violence, but on this night it was about gang colors, as Crips and Bloods went at it.
The police never moved. The community handles its business, stepping up, squashing the rogue gang bangers and enforcing the curfew.
(on camera): As we approach 10 p.m., it's moving in the right direction.
(voice-over): The key, leadership. Concerned citizens and, all importantly, elected leaders on the ground.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): We shall overcome...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): We shall overcome...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): We shall overcome...
CUOMO: Baltimore Representative Elijah Cummings and State Senator Catherine Pugh voices of reason, people responding. Flanked by media, they move from group to group until they're only left with reporters and calm streets.
REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: We are very, very proud of our folks. And we're proud of our city.
CUOMO: No small irony night turns out better than day in Baltimore as massive crowds swarm city hall and Penn Station.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When do we want it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now!
CUOMO: The majority of protests peaceful, a handful still determined to harm police, hurling rocks.
COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: I have a number of officers that have, well, they probably have broken hands or other bumps and bruises.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's signing fake autographs for fake fans.
CUOMO: The biggest reminder of disruption in Baltimore seen on the field, not the streets. For the first time in history, the Baltimore Orioles played to an empty Camden Yards, MLB officials too afraid of possible violence inside their stadium.
ADAM JONES, BALTIMORE ORIOLES BASEBALL PLAYER: My prayers have been out for all the families. All the kids out there, you know, they're hurting.
CUOMO: But what exactly happened to 25-year-old Freddie Gray? That remains a mystery.
According to a newly-released investigative document obtained by "The Washington Post," a prisoner who rode in the police van with Gray, who was separated by a metal partition and could not see him, told investigators he believes he was, quote, "intentionally trying to injure himself."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody's standing up for the officers, any of them.
CUOMO: Cutting against this report, a family member of one of the six officers under investigation. They wish to remain unidentified but say Gray wasn't manhandled on the road, and the van ride was not rough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were two people in the back. If he was rolling around in the back, then the other person that was back there would have been rolling around in the back also. And they weren't.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CUOMO: And they say a lot more than that in that interview to Anderson Cooper. So let's test it right now. There's no question this "Washington
Post" report is the new piece in the puzzle, saying, again, this prisoner who rode in the same police van with Freddie Gray, not next to him -- he was separated by a wall. But he tells investigators that he thinks Gray was intentionally trying to injure himself. Let's test it.
CNN justice reporter Evan Perez tracking the latest developments. How strong or how big or how important a piece in the puzzle is this?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, this adds to the doubt that some people already have as to whether or not these officers were at fault. So that -- this is part of the big question that police investigators are going to be facing, prosecutors in the state attorney's office are going to be facing.
[06:05:18] We're talking about a six-block ride. That's the time between the second prisoner's put in the van and the time he arrives at the police station. This all begins at 8:42. The wagon is requested.
At 8:46 the van driver says that Gray is being combative; he's being irate. They put him in leg irons. And then shortly thereafter, the second prisoner gets in here.
CUOMO: All right. Now if any of it is true, the biggest question it raises is how hurt could Freddie Gray have been when he was put in the van if he was able to move so much and be so violent with himself in the van?
PEREZ: Right. And the question is, you know, whether he was moving around, thrashing around as the police have said because he was hurt, because he was seeking attention, he was seeking medical attention. Or, as this prisoner seems to be saying in this document, according to the police, that he was intentionally trying to hurt himself. I don't know how he could know that.
CUOMO: How could he know? He's sitting on the other side of a metal thing. So it has to go to what he was able to hear. Right?
PEREZ: Right. Exactly.
CUOMO: And cutting against that is what Coop got with this family member.
PEREZ: Right.
CUOMO: She says -- tell them what she says in terms of what the officer that she knows thought about what happened to him before they got in that van.
PEREZ: She doesn't seem to know, you know, how these injuries might have happened before. There have been speculation that he had previous pre-existing injury. Now, you know, Anthony Batts, the police commissioner, spoke on television just last week, and he had a different explanation of what exactly was happening in the van. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BATTS: The second prisoner that was picked up, is that he didn't see any harm done to Freddie at all. What he has said is that he heard Freddie thrashing about. The driver didn't drive erratically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Says he said.
PEREZ: And, Chris, you know, now that's the big question here. The police aren't saying that anything actually happened in the van. They don't -- they don't seem to know. And that's the big open question, even after all this new reporting.
CUOMO: Right. I mean, look, your reporting is always spot-on. The confusion is here is how can they not know...
PEREZ: Right.
CUOMO: ... what happened when they control the universe of possibility with their own officers? And that's teeing up all this expectation about tomorrow. And as you know, Evan, you've been hearing the same things here. People have been holding the line of calm in expectation of satisfaction tomorrow. What's the chance they get it tomorrow?
PEREZ: There is very little chance they're going to get any satisfaction from this. We don't expect that there are going to be any charges announced. And that's what people want.
CUOMO: All right. You're going to keep reporting. So will I. Let's keep discussing this. There are so many questions about what happened in the van.
You have a friend of one of the Baltimore police officers who spoke to CNN, as we're telling you, about what may have happened to Freddie Gray. Judge for yourself. Here's what that friend had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were two people in the back. If he was rolling around in the back, then the other person that was back there would have been rolling around in the back also. And they weren't. The other person is already given a statement that they weren't rolling around. They weren't, you know, they weren't manhandled as far as on the road. It wasn't a rough ride or anything like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: All right. All these pieces matter. That's why I was working with Evan Perez. He's so wired into the police he heard at the Justice Department that it's about vetting what's strong and what isn't.
Let's bring in Baltimore attorney Granville Templeton III; and CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes. Thank you very much, both of you very much, for being here, Tom, as always.
All right. Let's deal with these pieces and see how they fit to us. How do you feel about this report from "The Washington Post" about a guy who was in the van but separated by a metal panel? And it matters. It means he could not see through, but he says, "The guy was thrashing around. I think he hurt himself." Strong?
GRANVILLE TEMPLETON III, ATTORNEY: No, that's not strong at all. We don't know how that statement was taken from that person. I think we should really be looking at did the officers hear that statement from him, or did they pull that statement out of him?
If he heard something on the other side of the wall, how can he know if he was thrashing himself against the wall or maybe there was just some noise that was happening on the other side?
CUOMO: Taking it at its best, Tom, at its best, if he's thrashing around, if he needs leg irons, how hurt could he have been when he got in the van? Reasonable cause for speculation?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I think that's reasonable, Chris. You know, how can you thrash around if you're close to having a severed spine at the neck and a crushed windpipe? How could you be yelling or making other noises, as was reported was the reason for pulling over to put leg shackles on him in the first place? So that raises that question.
But -- but I agree. We don't know yet. We don't know how that statement was taken. It's kind of additional hearsay being put out there at this point.
CUOMO: But step by step, what's the pushback to the, "Well, he must have been OK if he could do that in the van in anyway"? What's the pushback?
TEMPLETON: Well, it goes back to did that person really say that? We're not looking at how that statement was taken and if he really said that.
[06:10:06] CUOMO: We know they put the leg shackles on him.
TEMPLETON: We know they put the leg shackles on him. But we know here in Baltimore city the way that they take statements from a lot of defendants, it's not letting them just talk. They push that defendant in a room by themselves, and they ask them questions to get a specific type of result. So...
CUOMO: And then we have the conversation that Anderson Cooper had with this family member of one of the officers involved in the situation who says that this officer does not believe that what happened to Freddie Gray happened in the van. That they thought he was hurt before.
Now, if that stands up to scrutiny, because I know it's a lot of layers removed, how strong is that a piece of evidence from one of the officers involved, Tom?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it would be strong. But it would be stronger yet to hear it from the officer, what exactly is the basis for thinking he's hurt? How hurt do they think he is? When did the injury happen? You know, who was holding him or responsible for inflicting those injuries? Did he trip on the street when he was running? We don't know those things.
CUOMO: Now, the main speculation -- you guys push back on me -- if Chris Cuomo does this, and he hires Granville, you know, to represent him, I feel like Tom Fuentes, on the part of law enforcement's, got plenty of answers by now. Tom, plenty of answers. If you control the universe of possibility, because they're all your officers involved, and they're talking about me, we'd have answers. We don't have them here. How do you explain it?
TEMPLETON: The officers have a long time before they have to give any type of statement.
CUOMO: They gave statements on the 12th. Yes, this Bill of Rights that you have in Maryland gives them ten days to get council. But they gave statements on the 12th, five of the six guys. So that means the cops have those statements.
TEMPLETON: But you got to understand the statements that the officers get are different than a defendant's statements that you get. They get to sit down. They get to talk to their attorneys. They get to get their story together and tell their side of the story. They weren't asked questions by officers like other defendants that are -- that have homicide cases. And they don't lie to them and those officers when someone's charged with a homicide or murder. The officers tell them lies. They say whatever they need to get what they need out of that person. The officers get to do it in a different way. So the answers about...
CUOMO: They get to do it in a different way than they do it to themselves. In the Bill of Rights it says you can only interrogate an officer one-on-one, and it's got to be someone that they know, which would be a nice thing that a lot of folks would like.
TEMPLETON: So these statements aren't going to be what the public really wants. It's going to be a vanilla statement. It's going to be a statement that just says...
CUOMO: Unsatisfying to truth. But Tom, give us some more perspective.
FUENTES: We don't know how those statements were taken. Were these officers separated? You have five different statements taken in five different -- in five different rooms, let's say, it's difficult to coordinate the same story and tell it identically. It's not like you have a panel sitting there: "Gentlemen, what happened out there?" It's going to be done individually. It's going to be very difficult.
CUOMO: True. Also, look, the only reason I'm pushing as aggressively to test this as I am is there's something inherently troublesome about the police investigating themselves. We all know that. That's why you have all these concurrent investigations going on.
The big concern is tomorrow. I think a lot of the peace in this city right now is because people think there will be satisfaction. Tomorrow is the police giving a preliminary set of findings to the prosecutor, who's doing her own investigation. Does any of that suggest to you charges tomorrow, word of no charges and why tomorrow? Is there any chance there's that kind of closure?
TEMPLETON: That's not going to happen at all. Our state's attorney, Marilyn Mosby, she's going to have to do her own investigation. We had cases -- we have cases like this all the time in Baltimore. That's why this has bubbled and has burst, because this happens all the time in Baltimore.
Our case last year, George King, he was killed by Tasers by the police officers in May. Everything was given over to the state's attorney, who was Bernstein at the time. We didn't get any type of answers until October -- the end of October. So that's over five months, five and a half months later. In this case, hopefully, it will come sooner. It's a different state's attorney. This is a case that has garnered world attention. Hopefully, now Maryland will have the information to make a decision faster.
But they didn't make the decision until they had the medical examiner's report, until they had all the medical bills for George King. They didn't -- they waited until they had a stack of information. And even in that case, they didn't indict. They sat me down in a room. They showed me three stacks of papers and said, "You know what? We don't think the officers did this."
CUOMO: Well, every case is its own, but we want the process to be followed as fully as possible. Granville, thank you for perspective.
TEMPLETON: Thank you very much.
CUOMO: Working the system here. And Tom, as always, helping us understand how it should work at its best.
All right. We're going to have much more from Baltimore here. There's a lot going on. But we should go back to New York. There's a lot going on there that's related to this and other news, as well, Mick.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. We're looking at some international news right now, Chris, thank you. The death toll in the Nepal quake has now surpassed 5,500 victims. Incredibly though, people are still being found alive several days after the 7.8 - magnitude quake rocked that country. Incredibly, some of those victims beating the odds trapped under that heavy rubble. CNN's Sumnima Udas takes a look at that caught-on-camera rescue providing hope that more survivors will be found.
SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, five days on, incredible stories of survival are emerging. We were at the rescue scene where 18-year-old Pemba Tamang had been buried under a nine- story hotel building. He was all the way down in the basement, crouched underneath a motorcycle. And that's what protected him. A massive slab of cement over the motorcycle and a tiny hole, a crevice smaller than a coffin.
[06:15:24] And that's where he'd been for the past five days. The Nepali police had been digging the area the whole morning. They heard a noise. They started frantically digging through the rubble, digging about 200 feet down. And then the USAID got involved, as well.
As he was pulled out police say he was in state of shock but he's in good condition and has been sent to a hospital not too far from there. An 11-year-old girl was also pulled out of the rubble after 90 hours. She, too, appears to be in good condition.
Back to you, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Sumnima, thank you for that report.
Well, lethal injection procedures sparking a heated debate at the Supreme Court. The issue stems from a botched execution in Oklahoma, where a suspect was writhing in pain for 45 minutes after getting the first part of a three-drug cocktail. Conservative justices expressed concern that efforts to obtain more effective drugs are being slowed by opponents of the death penalty.
PEREIRA: Five years before he crashed a Germanwings plane into the French Alps, the FAA had questioned whether co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was mentally fit to fly. Government records show that Lubitz was awarded a U.S. pilot's license only after his German doctor said he was fully recovered from severe depression. There is also evidence that Lubitz tried to mislead the FAA initially, marking "no" in response to a question about whether he had ever been treated for a mental disorder.
CAMEROTA: Well, Bernie Sanders plans to give Hillary Clinton some competition. The Vermont senator jumping into the 2013 presidential race. Sanders will outline his plans for winning the Democratic nomination this afternoon. Sanders is an independent, but he caucuses with Democrats in the Senate. He describes himself as a Democratic socialist.
PEREIRA: All right. Stay with us here at CNN for continuing coverage of the unrest in Baltimore and around the nation. But ahead, are the protests shedding a necessary light on the inequalities of being black in America? We're going to discuss that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[06:21:18] CUMMINGS: I had my turn. I want them to get their turn.
What I can do is fight for them. And I've got to make sure that people hear them. See, they feel as if nobody hears them. And I think we're beginning to get that. But I'm telling you, Baltimore can happen anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That was Congressman Elijah Cummings speaking passionately about the protesters in Baltimore. The unrest shedding new light on a host of civil rights issues.
Let's talk about these with Marc Morial. He's the president and CEO of the National Urban League and former mayor of New Orleans. Mr. Morial, thanks so much for being here.
MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT/CEO, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: Good morning, Alisyn. Thank you for having me.
CAMEROTA: So you think that the protest and unrest is not the real story. The real story here are the underlying conditions that have led to this. Go ahead. Tell me.
MORIAL: Yes, I think the underlying conditions are something that have to be part of what we talk about and what we act on, because in post-recession America and as the recovery's brought jobs to the American mainstream, inner cities are being left behind. The joblessness levels are far too high, particularly among young men and young men of color.
And these issues, combined with friction and police misconduct, are a dangerous mix for America's urban communities. And it's in Baltimore, but this is a challenge of the nation.
CAMEROTA: We have a graphic to illustrate what you're talking about. Let me show you some of the statistics in Baltimore.
The poverty rate in Baltimore is 24 percent. The unemployment rate for black men in Baltimore between the ages of 20 and 24 is 37 percent.
Now, compare that to the national average, which is the unemployment rate is 5.5 percent right now. Residents with a college degree. Only a quarter of that city, 27 percent, has a college degree. So where do you even begin to tackle those issues?
MORIAL: I mean, you have to begin to tackle those issues by, one, raising an awareness that the problems that exist in Baltimore exist in most major American cities. It's not isolated to Baltimore. It's in parts of New York and Los Angeles and Cleveland and Atlanta.
We found that in 33 of the top 70 cities in America the black unemployment rate exceeded 15 percent. These are basically a window into what is occurring in America's urban communities.
So when the banks teetered and tottered, we had the TARP. We had a massive intervention, which was designed -- because the sense of the nation was, if the banks failed, it would affect all of America.
CAMEROTA: Right.
MORIAL: And in this instance, I would say, given that we see protests and that we see the numbers that we need a coordinated, wide- ranging, big response to the underlying issues.
CAMEROTA: And what does that look like? Because let's face it, in the past decade or so, the federal government has not had a great track record of creating jobs. So how do you suggest the government solve those problems?
MORIAL: It's the government and the private sector together. It's the states and the cities and the feds together. We shouldn't say it's -- but no one can stand on the side and say, "Well, the mayors should just figure it out, or the governor should just figure it out, or the president has to figure it out by itself."
We need a coordinated response to create jobs. Roosevelt did it in the '30s. Nixon and Carter had a coordinated response to the recession of the 1970s. What we've got to realize is that the recession still remains in inner city America.
And I appeal to people to understand that this challenge, given where we are as a nation, potentially affects the overall economy, the overall health of everyone. Just because it isn't at your doorstep doesn't mean that these challenges of poverty and joblessness do not affect you.
[06:25:12] CAMEROTA: When you were the mayor of New Orleans, you had a great track record. The crime rate there dropped precipitously. What did you do? I mean, now demographics were in your favor, because there was an economic boom during that time.
MORIAL: We had the '90s expansion, but we had a broad coordinated effort. We had to attack crime, but we also had massive investments in youth programs, after-school programs, massive investments in jobs. No money came from the feds. It came from the city budget. It came with support from the business community that I jawboned, that it was in their interest to do it. It required a forceful, coordinated response.
I hope the mayors of America will rally around Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, but the mayors of America collectively will speak to these problems. To simply pretend they don't exist or not talk about them openly is what produces an environment where people are angry.
Congressman Cummings is right. There's a sense out there that politicians, that people in influence and power don't care about these problems. And we've got to elevate it and say, even if it isn't in your neighborhood, it affects you.
CAMEROTA: Marc Morial, thanks so much for coming in to NEW DAY.
MORIAL: Thank you. Appreciate it.
CAMEROTA: Great to see you this morning.
We'd love to get your take on these issues. What do you think is at the root of all the unrest? Please tweet us. You can find me at Twitter, @AlisynCamerota, or you can also use the hashtag #NewDayCNN. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
Let's go back to Baltimore and Chris.
CUOMO: Really helpful to hear that conversation, Alisyn. As you're saying, you know, there are other communities across the country that have experienced police -- police shootings involving young black men, but not every city has reacted the way Baltimore has. So what makes this place different, and what is the solution here? We'll have someone who will give you a good answer, coming up.
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