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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Protests Continue in Baltimore; New Video Shows Freddie Gray Minutes after His Arrest; A Gyrocopter and a Cause. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 22, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:11] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
Tonight, new demonstrations on the streets of Baltimore including a sunset confrontation between protesters and police.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
COOPER: It happened just a short time ago outside of the police station where ten days ago a fatally injured Freddie Gray was taken to a hospital where he later died. And with demonstrators again, out on the streets of Baltimore, we now have new video, the last known images of Mr. Gray alive on the way to the police station and that being loaded for a second time into a police van and we'll show you that and we have the eyewitness who made the video being dragged to the van in the first place. He believes that his friend, he is friends with Mr. Gray, had already sustained the spinal injuries that would ultimately take his life. We'll also hear from the two advocates for the police officers involve who say otherwise.
So as we continue the protests for the hour and we have that and we have more starting with Miguel Marquez.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New video shows Freddie Gray, minutes after his initial arrest, the last time he was seen publicly and alive. The video is short but it shows Gray not moving, lying half in and half out of the police van.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn't responding. He was down and his feet was like this. And they picked him up and threw him up in the paddy wagon.
MARQUEZ: This is a corner of (INAUDIBLE). This is the block from where Freddie Gray was arrested. He was arrested just around the corner down at the end of this block. This is where police pulled him out of the van. They say to shackle his feet. There was a woman watching everything right across the street.
He looked unconscious to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes, and I asked them could they get him a paramedic. They told me to mind my business. I said it is my business. MARQUEZ: Baltimore police say five of the six officers involved in
Gray's arrest have provided statements to investigators and a lawyer for them said any injuries sustained by Gray could not have come from the officers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our position is something happened in that van. We just don't know one.
MARQUEZ: One, he only wants his first name grew up with Freddie Gray. He is his brother in-law and says Freddie's older brother died in street violence here years ago. Freddie Gray's family in disbelief.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just because he was running down the street and this police decided he wanted to stop him, now he's a bad person. So someone deserved to be took -- not deserved for running down the street. You don't know he's a bad person when he runs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are all dragging him look that.
MARQUEZ: (INAUDIBLE), who only wants to use her first name, shot this video. She said Freddie, a guy she knew as a joker and a lady's man, only said one thing to her that day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I ran up the street and I seen him and I asked him, are you OK because I heard him screaming and he didn't never say yes or no, he just said I can't breathe. And this was -- he was just yelling.
MARQUEZ: One thing consistent with every witness statement, this was the spot where Freddie was first arrested by police that inexplicably they say, he was dragged to this spot right here. What it also tells us that Freddie was on his back, handcuffed and his legs up behind his become and a knee of an officer firmly on his neck.
Freddie Gray's cousin says she only hopes the violence stops.
What do you hope the police will hear tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, just give us. Just stop this.
COOPER: And Miguel Marquez joins us.
Now, you've been there for several days. How are the size of the demonstrations now compared to previous days?
MARQUEZ: Today they become diffuse. Right now, I can tell you from the Western district police station, it has been long standoff between many police officers and the demonstrators out here today. They broke up into a different group. Part of them went toward city hall tonight and they are blocking traffic in different parts of the city. And in coming days, we expect thousands at city hall tomorrow and on Saturday a promising tens of thousands of protesters at city hall. So, it is only growing, Anderson.
COOPER: And are details of Mr. Gray's funeral, have that -- is that been released?
MARQUEZ: Sadly, his body, it sounds like, has not been released to the family. Once it does, though, the lawyer for Mr. Gray wants to conduct their owned autopsy on him. And only then, would it be released for the funeral.
I talked to the pastor today who perform that funeral and her sad Sounds like the coroner said the body will be released and then the family's attorney will want an autopsy and once that is released then it will be days before he is laid to rest.
COOPER: All right, Miguel Marquez. Thank you very much on the streets of Baltimore tonight.
Now, just to underscore how unclear it is as to precisely when and where Freddie Gray sustained those fatal injuries. And nobody can say for sure. The man who captured video of him before police took him away has come forward. He's asked us not to reveal his identity. We spoke a short time ago.
[20:00:09] COOPER: Were you there when Mr. Gray started running or what did you first notice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (via phone): Well, I was actually in bed asleep and one of my relatives came running in the house screaming my name, they're tasing him, they're tasing him, they're tasing one of your friends and I ran out the door to try to, you know, see what was going on. But the time I got to the actual site that it was happening, I didn't see the taser -- he was putting it back in the holster rather than tasing him still. And so then I just whipped out my phone and started recording, man. And I was actually behind at first. But as you can see on the video, I had to run around the van to try to get a better angle and so that is what I did. And when I got to the site, man, it was just terrible.
COOPER: Were you looking through the camera or were you just sort of looking directly at it with your eyes and the camera was also on it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, by the time I started recording them they had him in a crab-like -- the heel of his feet were almost on his back and he was already cuffed at the time. So -- and then they had his -- the police had their knee in his neck and he was like crushing his neck really hard.
COOPER: You are also recording as they begin to drag him to the van. To you, did it look like he was able to walk?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, to me, it didn't look like he was able to use his legs at all. They were totally limp. He had no use. They say he was able to put pressure on one leg but I'm sure if you took away the help from the officers holding him up that he wouldn't be able to stand on his own. There is no way possible. As can you see in the video, they drag him to the paddy wagon because -- because he couldn't walk. COOPER: Now, police have said they didn't use the taser. Did you see
any indication that they actually had use the taser? I know somebody told you that a taser have been used.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the electricity the noise from the taser. I never seen him getting electrocuted or tased.
COOPER: But you didn't see any wires connected to him when he was down because that is not visible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
COOPER: OK. Was there any possibility in your mind that he was choosing not to walk? Some people sometimes will, you know, just not -- let people drag them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe whatever they did it happened right there. And it is not in my mind that he is in no way trying to resist or refuse to walk.
COOPER: Was he saying something? Was he yelling something?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well he was asking for -- because he has asthma. He was asking for an inhaler. But of course no one paid it any mind. So they, of course, true him in the paddy wagon and took off. So we took off running to try to see what was going on and by the time we get there, two more officers and the paddy wagon officer were surrounding him when the bike guys so we couldn't get a visual on Freddie at the time.
COOPER: I talked to the mayor last night and she hasn't heard there was any evidence of probable cause to arrest him at all. The police said a police officer saw a clip that they believe was a knife on his front pocket, it turned out to be some sort a spring-loaded knife or a switchblade. A, is that something you know that he carried, and b, do you believe that they actually saw that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, whatever they say that he had, it wasn't worth his life. You didn't have to kill him, and I've never known Freddie to carry any type of women. Freddie is a 110 pounds soaking wet man. And I don't believe for one second that he would be aggressive toward the police in any type of way. Because we know that police brutality is prevalent in our neighborhood and we know that it goes on because we see it every day.
So no, I don't, I don't believe that those guys felt threatened in any type of way. And I believe that it was just overkill. They over-did it and they don't want to admit it.
COOPER: Listen, I appreciate you talking about what you saw. Thank you very much and also for your video tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No problem, man. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Now a different perspective now. Joining us is Gene Ryan of the Baltimore fraternal order of police and attorney Mike Davey who represents the suspended officers.
Mike, you say based on what you know, you do not believe any of the six officers committed a crime in the arrest of Freddie Gray. Can you explain why you believe that? What led you to that conclusion?
MIKE DAVEY, ATTORNEY FOR SUSPENDED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICERS: Basically based on my experience. I'm a retired police officer. I've been involved in investigations in the past. I've been an attorney for the past 16 years representing police officers in the state of Maryland. I've had the opportunity to see what has been provided to the public and had the opportunity to speak to some of the officers involved and based on what I've seen and what I know of the investigation and the evidence that they currently have, I just don't believe that there was any criminal acts committed by the officers involved.
[20:10:15] COOPER: So how do you believe that Mr. Gray received the injuries that he got?
DAVEY: I really can't explain that at this point. I'm hoping the investigation make that determination at this point. I think the video evidence is clear when he got into the van, he was standing on his own on the bumper getting into the transport wagon. He was able to turn his head and yell back to the crowd as he entered the van. There didn't appear to be any distress or anything of that nature when he got in.
COOPER: So when you see the video, you believe he's standing on his own. Because I think a lot of people seeing that video see a guy being dragged and at one point, it seems like, he put some weight on his left foot -- left leg but still being held up and it is not exactly clear what happens on the bumper of the vehicle, is it?
DAVEY: Whether he is dragged due to his inability to walk or refusal to walk, I believe it is his refusal to walk based on the fact when he stood up on the bumper, he is clearly standing and turning back and yelling.
COOPER: Isn't though, the most logical explanation that that injury occurred prior to him being placed in the van.
DAVEY: You say that is the most logical but we don't know that. There is no one or there is no evidence that has come forward. You've seen the video tape. I've seen the video tape. The police officers based on the video are not using excessive force. The only force you see is them limited to holding his legs down while waiting for the transport van.
COOPER: How does someone get three crushed vertebrae in the back of a van?
DAVEY: I think that is a question for the investigation. The investigators will have to make that determination based on the medical evidence, based on the environment inside of that transport van to make that determination.
COOPER: Do you know based on your conversations with the officers if Mr. Gray was strapped in or seat belted before the van took off?
DAVEY: The information that we're getting throughout the investigation is that he was not seat belted in.
COOPER: And then the van we're told drives for a bit and stopped and takes Mr. Gray out and apparently, puts leg shackles on him. Why would they do that, as far as you know?
DAVEY: It is not unusual for large crowds to begin to gather and be threatening toward the arresting officers. It is not unusual to get someone into a wagon as quickly as they can, drive them two or three blocks and remove them from the wagon, depending on their degree of resistance or aggravation and what they are doing in the back of the van, place leg shackles on them and place them back in the van in order to get them away from the crowd that has gathered. That is not an unusual circumstance in Baltimore. And I would imagine it is not an unusual circumstance anywhere in the country.
COOPER: And I smoke, Mike, to an eyewitness earlier who actually recorded video that a lot of people have now seen. He said he heard, didn't see, but heard Mr. Gray get tased. To your knowledge, did the officers use tasers on him?
DAVEY: There was no taser used. I believe commissioner Batts explained that in his press conference on Monday, that as Mr. Gray was running, one of the officers did have a taser, yelled taser, taser, taser as they are required to do prior to deploying a taser, however it was never deployed. And I believe the commissioner Batts clearly stated in his press conference that there is to medical evidence that Mr. Gray was ever tased.
COOPER: You know, Gene, it has been ten days now and we still don't know how or when Freddie Gray was fatally injured. Is this process taking longer than normal in your opinion or is this normal?
GENE RYAN, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE, BALTIMORE CITY: Now, what has to happen, is we're not supposed to give out information in reference to an active ongoing case because it could jeopardize the integrity of the case. So that is nothing unusual.
COOPER: It does seem like, and I might be wrong about this, but it does seem like in other situations there has been more information released even while an investigation continues, no?
RYAN: No. We're not supposed to give out or any divulge any information in reference to an active investigation. Like I said, I mean, you don't want to take the chance jeopardizing the integrity of the investigation by giving out the information too soon. Because a lot of times the information you get in the beginning isn't always 100 percent factual. So I've been involved with cases that the facts come out in the beginning or they can be totally opposite down the road once the -- all of the evidence is weighed and gathered. COOPER: You now, as you know, Mike, I mean, I talk -- well I -- you
may not know, I talked to an attorney for the Gray family last night who basically said, look, this is a case of somebody running while black, running while African-American. How do you respond to that?
[20:15:06] DAVEY: Mr. Murphy is a very good attorney. He's a very good advocate for his client and he is doing what he believes he should be doing to ensure that this case continues to get the attention that it is getting.
COOPER: Mike Davey, Gene Ryan, thank you very much.
DAVEY: Thank you.
RYAN: Thank you, sir.
COOPER: So two very different perspectives of what happened to Mr. Gray before being put in the van. You heard the eyewitness saying he doesn't believe Mr. Gray was capable of actually walking. There, you hear the attorney for the police officers saying because he was standing up on the bumper of the van before being place in, that he was and he believes whatever happened to him occurred inside of the van. Again, the facts are not clear.
A quick reminder, make sure to set your DVR so you can watch 360 whenever you want.
Just ahead, why Baltimore has been paying out millions of dollars in police brutality cases, one of the key reasons why so many people protesting Mr. Gray's death say they simply do not trust the people who are supposed to be keeping them safe.
We are also going to dig deeper as well, the vital medical question surrounding what happened this time to an apparently otherwise healthy man.
[20:19:15] COOPER: The breaking news, new protests in Baltimore with some of the anger very apparent tonight on the streets where Brian Todd has been all evening. He joins us now.
Brian, what is the latest?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this is a protest that has been moving through the streets of Baltimore for a couple of hours now. It has gotten a little rough in spots. There was a confrontation with police under an overpass about three blocks back just a short time ago where the police were trying to keep a lane of a street open and the protesters didn't want to let them do that. And there was a bit of a standoff. They have been standoff with the police. They have been several blocks throughout this protest march all evening long, but no major incidents to report as we've been moving with this crowd of a couple hundred people.
So I would describe the crowd as very angry and very passionate but so far very peaceful, Anderson. They have basically taken control of some intersections here in Baltimore. On occasion they've come to a major intersection and laid down right in the middle of the street, blocking traffic. And we asked them why they were doing that and they said because if the police will barricade us at the western precinct headquarters, then we are going to try to disrupt some traffic in the city to make our statement.
So that's basically what they have been trying to do. Right here, right now, this is a pretty major intersection in downtown Baltimore and they just stopped traffic again. So we are stopping traffic and as we are moving with the protesters, Anderson.
[20:20:38] COOPER: All right, Brian Todd, we'll continue checking with you.
Some perspective now, joining us CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin, she is a former forward prosecutor, she has worked in the Baltimore area and also I should point out is a friend of the mayor of Baltimore. Also joining us retired New York police detective Harry Houck, also forensic expert Lawrence Kobilinsky of New York's John Jay College of criminal justice.
Professor, I want to start with you, because the representative for the police, the lawyer for the police says he does not believe that Mr. Gray's legs were injured or his vertebrae were crushed and he was unable to walk that though he was being dragged, he believed he was just allowing himself to be dragged and he points to a moment where -- and I want t show this picture, Mr. Gray appears to be standing or placed on the bumper of the police van before going into the police van. Now he does have somebody holding on to him. What do you make of that image. Does that tell you anything about the condition Mr. Gray was in?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC EXPERT: If we can really assume that he was standing on his own, that would tell me that the spinal cord was not severely injured, that the severance was not very significant. Of course his head was not restrained. And so the second -- the secondary damage could have happened in the van where the vertebrae was actually torn.
So in other words, the way this works is that the cervical vertebrae will affect the upper limbs, the elbow, the arm, the muscles on the top. But if you have severe damage to the court, it will affect your entire body. So I think it is not clear to be that he was standing on his own.
COOPER: Right. Yes, it is hard to tell from the image.
KOBILINSKY: Yes. But I do think it makes no sense that three vertebrae would be fractured in the van. I still think that he probably was running away from the police. They tackled him which is to be expected, the police trying to arrest him. And presumably they fell. Maybe there was a hyperextension of the neck or a hypo extension or movement laterally.
COOPER: You don't see how this could happen in the back of the van. KOBILINSKY: I don't see that.
COOPER: Because it needs to be a sharp blow.
KOBILINSKY: It could be blunt impact or could be a rotation or a hyperextension, putting extraordinary force against the vertebrae. Bones don't break unless you've got osteoporosis. There has to be enough force to break those bones.
COOPER: Sunny, the eyewitness said he heard a taser, police say there was no taser, that an officer yelled taser but no taser was actually discharged. So that is a question of how the eyewitness could have heard the sound of electricity if no taser was actually discharged. But the police for the lawyer saying he is convince no crime has been committed based on his conversations with the officers and his experience, he has no explanation for how these injuries occurred in the back of a van.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that is what is so remarkable. And I'm surprised at the narrative that sort has been coming forward from the officers and the officers representative this just happened in the van when he was there by himself. I mean, we all know that doesn't make sense. And what I am dumbfounded by Anderson is that we have video of Mr. Gray's condition. I'm being told that what I am seeing, which is someone in pain, someone screaming, someone with no mobility, someone being dragged, I'm not seeing it, can I not trust my eyes.
COOPER: Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment because plenty of people who get arrested, I mean, if you are protesting and you don't, you know, and one of the ways you protest is to not -- to just go limp and let them -- have the police drag you into the van.
HOSTIN: That would make sense to me if he didn't die of severe spinal cord injuries. That would make sense to me. But that is not what makes sense here. So no one can tell me at this point that my eyes are lying. I'm sure Harry is going to tell me my eyes are lying but they are not.
COOPER: So somehow in the back of the van alone he is somehow able to crush three of his vertebrae.
HOSTIN: Come on, Harry.
HARRY HOUCK, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE DETECTIVE: Let me explain.
COOPER: Of course.
[20:24:54] HOUCK: What happens here is, you know, we see him being dragged and put into the van, alright? And we see him partially standing up there, alright? Whether or not, I would have to look at the video a lot closer. I've been trying to do it and I really can't tell. But I don't think one person would be able to keep him standing up and the officers like this and it is one officer, alright? So I think he is really standing there. Now, the doctor said that, you know, has a theory about a two-stage
injury. Now maybe when the officers tackled him, the first stage injury occurred to his spinal column, OK? At the same time when the officers put him in there, who see they drive away, all right, and then we see them shackling his feet. Now, why these police officers shackle feet? Now, I know from my experience that we only shackled feet for prisoners when they started acting act up in the backseat of the radio car, I mean, kicking and thrashing.
HOSTIN: So he did it to himself?
HOUCK: Please, this is a theory, OK? All right. Kicking and backstroke, the officers probably had to stop the vehicle, alright, and then put the shackles on him. Because why would they put the shackles on him in the first place if he couldn't even stand. If he can't use his legs, why even shackle with that?
HOSTIN: That would be abusive and it would be excessive force and that really is the question here, right? I mean, what amount of force is reasonable to effectuate an arrest. I can tell just from what we know now, Harry, that of what he was arrested for, any amount of excessive force is unreasonable.
HOUCK: Well excessive force, but not reasonable force. We don't see -- we don't see in any -- any of the videos excessive force.
HOSTIN: Well we don't see it but there are injuries.
COOPER: We don't see the tackle or the arrest.
HOUCK: Right, we don't see the tackle which I think maybe the first part of the --
HOSTIN: He didn't break his own back.
COOPER: Hopefully we'll get more information when both an autopsy is finally released and also, a second autopsy is actually done by the family. More details to come no doubt.
Sunny, thank you, and Harry Houck, Lawrence Kobilinsky.
Coming up next, the big picture of an ugly and legally expensive picture for the city of Baltimore police brutality, the history of it in Baltimore.
And also, we are joined and talking about the legitimate danger that many police officers face. A lot to talk about ahead. We'll be right back.
COOPER: As we watch new protests unfold in the death of Freddie Gray, it is worth knowing that some of the anger and mistrust that you are seeing have as much to do with a perceived pattern of police abuse as this one single incident. The mayor acknowledges that. People who live in some of Baltimore's toughest neighborhoods say, it's a given: large payouts to victims of alleged police brutality, including a pregnant woman and a church deacon also speak loudly to what protesters say is their larger problem with the Baltimore police. More on that tonight from Jack Tapper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell the truth and stop the lies. All black men don't have to die!
JACK TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It has been dubbed, originally without irony, Charm City. Baltimore, Maryland, has long held a reputation for being one of the most dangerous cities to police in the nation, with a history of brutality on both sides of the badge.
CROWD: They don't protect and serve.
TAPPER: But the reputation that Freddie Gray's death has brought to light once again. Gray was young, African-American, had a slew of previous drug-related arrests and he spent time in the housing projects here. In short, Gray represented one of Baltimore's most- watched populations. Watched by police on foot patrol and watched by an audience of millions in television depictions.
Baltimore has served as the go-to example of urban tension in shows like "The Wire" or "Homicide, Life on the Streets." Shows based on neighborhoods dotted with death. This map compiled by "The Baltimore Sun" shows 211 homicides in the city last year. So far 2015 has seen 63. These numbers are vastly better than in previous decades when crime was notoriously high. More than 350 homicides in 1993 alone. At the time police recruitment videos used the slogan, "and you thought your job was tough."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How would you like it if we quit?
TAPPER: It is a dangerous job that's difficult to do without criticism. Today the Baltimore police department is working hard to improve its relations with those whom it serves, posting photos of outreach efforts and successful busts on Twitter. It is an effort of which the mayor is proud.
MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE: I think Baltimore has had a very challenging history when it comes to the black community and the police department. We've done a lot of work and made a lot of progress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!
TAPPER: But for many in this city, these efforts do little in the wake of videos such as these showing officer brutality, punching, hitting. Residents say it is all too common.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freddie Gray is not the only one they've beat up in these last past two weeks.
TAPPER: In 2014, "The Baltimore Sun" reported that the city had paid more than $5.7 million in judgments and settlements for alleged police misconduct since 2011. This includes six-figure settlements for allegedly slamming a pregnant woman to the ground, for killing an unarmed Marine veteran and for beating a church deacon with no previous record.
COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE: I've heard the complaints. I've heard the distrust and it is clear there is still work to be done.
TAPPER: The Baltimore police called for a government investigation, now less than a year later the Department of Justice will investigate the force once again.
RAWLINGS-BLAKE: We need stronger enforcement and more tools to hold officers accused of wrongdoing accountable.
TAPPER: In a city as hard to police as this one, the biggest challenge may be a department trying to police itself.
COOPER: That was Jake Tapper reporting. I want to dig deeper on this subject and I want to bring in Mark Puente, he's "The Baltimore Sun" reporter who investigated those settlements for alleged police misconduct that Jack just told us about. Also, joining us again is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin.
Mark, your investigation, more than 100 cases, formal lawsuits against the city of Baltimore alleging police brutality or excessive force, millions of dollars in settlements. In the context of all of that, how do you view what happened to Freddie Gray?
MARK PUENTE, "BALTIMORE SUN": Well, a lot of those cases -- nearly all of these cases show that there were questionable arrests. The mayor of this town has called into question the probable cause. So I think we can put it into - in somewhat context and what led to the arrest in our investigation where most charges were dropped in nearly all the cases, the folks were charged with obstruction, disorderly conduct and resisting and assault on a law enforcement officer. Prosecutors and judges dropped or dismissed the cases. The suspects received severe injuries, broken bones, battered faces, some needed surgeries to repair these injuries. They later sued and the city either settled the cases or juries awarded damages.
COOPER: So, you are saying, in nearly all of the cases you investigated, the suspects actually ended up, the charges against the suspects actually ended up being dropped?
PUENTE: That is correct. Some of the patterns that emerged pretty quickly in our investigation was, they were all common charges. Those four charges or you found language in a charging document that said the suspect became defensive, the officers feared for their safety and they took defensive action. Nobody was prosecuted on those charges in any of those cases. They were all dismissed once they got to a court or to prosecutor's hands.
COOPER: How common was it for police to actually face charges?
PUENTE: In our investigation we didn't find any examples where officers were prosecuted. There was complaints that were made to Internal Affairs. The department couldn't find the records in many of those cases. And the department did admit they didn't have a very good tracking system. We also reported that the city did not track lawsuits against officers. We found multiple officers who were sued multiple times and the city didn't realize until we pointed out.
PUENTE: They have since vowed to change that.
COOPER: Sunny, I mean you are a federal prosecutor in "The Baltimore Area." What do you make of all that?
SUNNY HOSTIN: Well, and I'm glad we're talking about this, because that really puts this case, the gray case, I think, in perspective. Because Baltimore has had a history of having police brutality and the fact that now we have the police investigating the police doesn't give me much confidence in this particular investigation. We know that the Baltimore city police department is now -- has now interviewed five out of the six officers, they plan to wrap up their investigation May First and then give it over to the state attorney's office, the local prosecutor. Well, what does that do for someone that is a prosecutor? You have the police investigating themselves.
COOPER: Mark, you know, I think for a lot of people, they are surprised that the idea that Freddie Gray just made eye contact with an officer and apparently turned around and ran away and that set all of this in motion, does that surprise you? Should it surprise people? Because the representatives of the police they say the stop was justified because the neighborhood has been designated a high-crime area.
PUENTE: Sure. But many lawsuits that we looked at, there was references in the papers and some people we talked to said, you know, the police pulled up, and these officers in the Gray case were identified with uniforms, a lot of the ones we looked at, were called knockers. They were in plain clothes and one even said in the publication that, you know, he gets in his car and wears jeans and a t-shirt. He pulls up and looks at somebody, they look at each other and the chase is on. And so that is not uncommon in this city.
COOPER: The - how fast do you think this investigation -- I mean when you - I mean it has been ten days? Does this seem slow? Because I talked to, you know, to the representative for the Fraternal Order of Police and he says, oh, yeah, this seems normal to me?
HOSTIN: It doesn't seem normal to me, quite frankly, especially given the heightened scrutiny on this case and given the fact that the family hasn't received the body in order to conduct an independent autopsy no autopsy report has been released. A lot of these cases, Anderson, quite frankly, that we have covered, we've had more information given to us as the media by the police. You think about the case in Ferguson, we had every single bit of information from - about Michael Brown. We had very little information about the police officer.
COOPER: Mark, does this seem like a long investigation to you so far?
PUENTE: It seems pretty quick. One quick example, we - Officer Michael McFadden, he was sued five times, the city have paid out multiple times in payout. We uncovered a video that contradicted everything he said in an alleged beating. He said that individual was handcuffed and he took a defensive position and he had, you know, to defend his safety. We uncovered a video (INAUDIBLE) that showed he already handcuffed the guy, the guy gets knocked out and falls on the floor. He gets picked up and is already cuffed. That's been going on for six months and nobody can say what is taking so long and he's been collecting a paycheck on suspension with pay.
COOPER: Mark Puente, it's fascinating reporting for "The Baltimore Sun." Mark, thank you very much. We appreciate it, and Sunny Hostin as well.
We are going to continue to follow protests tonight in Baltimore, but also ahead, the Florida mailman caused a major security scare with his stunt on the Capitol lawn, promised to warn authorities in advance of his flight. The question is, did he really make an honest effort to do that? Did he warn authorities? My interview with him is next.
COOPER: Tonight new details about the security response to that breech of protected air space over the nation's capital by a Florida postal career who landed his gyrocopter in the lawn of the Capitol. After classified briefing, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee Jason Chaffetz told reporters that security officials had guns trained on Doug Hughes and his flying contraption the whole time and could have shot him down at any point, but didn't. And now in a moment you're going to hear from Mr. Hughes who is now facing federal charges, but first here is Randi Kaye.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On the afternoon of April 15th this gyrocopter flew straight through restricted air space over Washington D.C. Doug Hughes is at the controls. This is what he saw as he made his way toward the nation's capital.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not good, people.
KAYE: The Florida postal worker and pilot pulled this stunt, he says, to make a statement about campaign financing and deliver a letter to lawmakers. He alerted "The Tampa Bay Times" on takeoff and immediately began live streaming his 80-mile trip. As he came in for a landing, some couldn't believe their eyes.
NORA NEUS, WITNESSED DOUGH HUGHES LANDING: I saw out of nowhere, a machine that looked like something from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang coming straight at the Capitol building.
KAYE: Hughes had planned this mission for more than two years, and despite flying just 150 feet off the ground, he somehow managed to avoid detection by radar.
KAYE: When the 61-year-old landed on the West Lawn of the Capitol, police arrested him, charging him with violating national defense air space and registration requirements involving aircraft -- a felony. He was issued an ankle monitor until he returns to a D.C. courtroom next month. He's also banned from flying any type of aircraft. Despite her father's legal woes now, his daughter was thrilled.
KATHY HUGHES, DAUGHTER: I was just down right proud. He's a patriot, you know. He did it for the country.
KAYE: And now, he may land in jail.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
COOPER: His intentions in his eyes may have been noble, but what Doug Hughes did caused a major scare, and taxpayers of course will end up footing the bill. When I spoke with him earlier, I wanted to find out if he really had contacted law enforcement as he promised he would.
COOPER: So Doug, when you took off last Wednesday, you didn't really believe that you were going to be able to deliver these letters to people on Capitol Hill, did you?
DOUG HUGHES: No, I was pretty confident I would be able to go all the way through.
COOPER: But actually deliver the letters, get off of your copter and actually go and deliver the letters? It seems like a stunt?
HUGHES: No, no, I understood that I was going to land and be taken into custody.
COOPER: What was the point of trying to do this? Because everybody has been talking not about campaign finance, but about this guy who flew a gyrocopter to Capitol Hill.
HUGHES: The reaction I'm getting from people and the questions I'm being asked is why did you do this? What was this about? What were you thinking?
COOPER: I know it was about campaign finance reform, I get why you did it that way, but I am just wondering, do you really believe you accomplished anything? Because frankly you spent a lot of taxpayer money and police time, you made a lot of people worried in law enforcement, and I'm just wondering, was it really worth it?
HUGHES: If the government spent a lot of money cleaning up after my stunt and it results in an honest government, it is the best money they ever spent.
COOPER: Do you think taxpayers should have to pay for you wanting to do this stunt, which you knew your letters were not going to get delivered so I'm calling it a stunt, because it seems like it was designed simply to get attention and get media attention?
HUGHES: It was designed to get attention on the problem of corruption in Congress.
COOPER: You told the Tampa Bay -- you told the Tampa Bay Times that you were going to give the authorities plenty of warning, well over an hour in advance, of you getting to the no-fly zone so they would know who you were and what you were doing and what you intended to do. Did you do that?
COOPER: Who did you call?
HUGHES: I didn't call. I sent a delayed e-mail, okay. And I e- mailed firstname.lastname@example.org. I don't think a call that I am going to fly in would have been taken any more seriously than my e-mail would have been taken. OK? My e-mail was tied to the story breaking in the Tampa Bay Times, which gave it credibility. A simple call to 911 that I'm flying in would not have had any credibility.
COOPER: You don't think a call to a 911 operator saying that I have got a gyrocopter and I'm heading straight for the Capitol and I'm going to land on the Capitol, I'm going to land at the Capitol, I'm going to pass by the White House, I'm going to violate restricted air space, you don't think that would have been taken seriously?
HUGHES: I think they would have said, yeah, right.
COOPER: Well then, why didn't you do that? Because if they weren't going to take it seriously, there wouldn't be no problem for you just to do that?
HUGHES: The administration was who I needed to notify because I needed to notify the people who could make the decision to stand down on shooting me down and would let me land and take me into custody alive on the other end. Nobody at 911 can decide not to shoot me down.
COOPER: You are under house arrest now and you are facing up to four years in prison. Do you think this was worth it?
HUGHES: I won't know if this was worth it until I get through with it. And we're through with it when we'll see in the next election, a serious dialogue about corruption and a serious commitment to solving the problem of corruption, and that is what makes it worth it.
COOPER: Well, Doug, I appreciate you spending the time with us. Thank you, Doug.
HUGHES: Thank you for having me, Anderson.
COOPER: And just ahead, we'll update you on the breaking news out of Baltimore. New protests on the streets across the city well into the night.
COOPER: New protests in Baltimore. Some of the anger very apparent tonight on the streets. Brian Todd has been there all evening. He joins us now. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the protesters are still very, very angry. I would describe them as very, very passionate. You have got police cars kind of ringing the route where we are walking. The problem is the police cars don't necessarily know where to go, because the protesters are kind of winging it as far as the route they are taking. They have shut down several intersections tonight. The traffic -- a lot of horn honking, and you got just a lot of people that as you know from covering Ferguson, you know, they come toward the camera when we are doing this.
But protesters have been really strong for the last three hours or so. Moving around the streets of Baltimore. We're going to turn the camera around and show you this procession going up here on Martin Luther King Avenue here in Baltimore. They are just very angry over the Freddie Gray story. They want answers from the police and the mayor that they don't believe they are getting, and they say they will come out in force tomorrow and maybe stay here for the rest of the night, Anderson.
COOPER: Brian, I appreciate the reporting. And we'll check in with Miguel Marquez, who is elsewhere on the streets in Baltimore. Where are you?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're at the (inaudible) police station where there are still several protesters who are challenging police. You can see the police lined behind us. There are actually three lines of police, right in front. Several dozen police officers with other officers behind them, and then police officers on horses behind. There were two arrests here earlier in the evening, both of those individuals I believe have been let go from the police station now.
That is one thing -- one reason a lot of protesters are staying out here tonight, just a lot of anger here and they say they will be back tomorrow in force. Anderson.
COOPER: Miguel Marquez. Thank you very much.
Still ahead, new details about a terror plot targeting churches.
Plus, commuters jumped into action after a man in a wheelchair fell off a subway platform. The daring rescue, next.
COOPER: Let's get the latest on the other stories we're following. Amara Walker has a 360 bulletin. Amara.
AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, French authorities have foiled an alleged plot to attack churches after they arrested a computer science student from Algeria who called for medical help after accidentally shooting himself in the leg. Authorities found weapons and ammunitions, documents mentioning al Qaeda and ISIS, and evidence of the church plot, including signs he was working with someone in Syria, as well as evidence he killed a woman who was found dead on Sunday morning in a Paris suburb. Her connection to the suspect is unknown.
A Sky West airlines flight made an emergency landing in Buffalo, New York, today, after a passenger lost consciousness. The plane descended 28,000 feet in three minutes. An airline spokeswoman said early reports of a problem with pressurization or the plane's door were incorrect. The passenger was treated and then released.
And two unknown men in Washington are being called heroes after they rescued a man in a wheelchair who fell off a subway platform onto the tracks. He was treated nor nonlife-threatening injuries. Anderson.
COOPER: That's incredible. Great, they responded so quickly. Amara, thanks very much.
That does it for us. "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN" starts now.