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CNN NEWSROOM

Tulsa Police Volunteer Mistakenly Used Gun, Not Taser; Iraqi Prime Minister to Meet with President Obama; Free-Range Parents in Trouble Again. Rubio Says No to Leaders of the Past. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 14, 2015 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:01] GRIFFIN: It was time to hang up the vote and they've turned it in.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Drew Griffin, thanks for stopping by. Appreciate it.

You can check out the special report "BLOWOUT: THE GULF OIL DISASTER," that airs tonight 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

Happening now in the NEWSROOM, a man shot and killed by a reserve deputy, now the victim's family asking why was he there?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got wealthy individuals with little to no training allowed to participate in a highly dangerous situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Out with the old, in with the new. Can Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio sell that message to the next generation of voters?

Plus, two kids walking home alone picked up by police again. Their parents say it's free range parenting. Now there's a question if it's too much freedom.

Let's talk, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for being with me.

A volunteer deputy officer accused in the shooting death of an unarmed suspect and now charged with manslaughter. 73-year-old Robert Bates is expected to turn himself into authorities today.

Now the video you're about to see shows the final moments of that fatal sting operation after the victim, Eric Harris, allegedly tried to sell officers an illegal handgun.

Listen carefully. Chilling words from Bates. The moment he realizes he's mistakenly pulled the trigger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roll on your stomach. Now. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You shot me.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop fighting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot me. He shot me. He shot me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Now Bates' attorney calls the shooting an excusable homicide but the victim's family says Bates paid to play a cop and did not have enough experience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRE HARRIS, BROTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM ERIC HARRIS: There was enough people on top of my brother, knees in his head, to not even have to use a taser. For it to be that many people around him and him go to use a taser really didn't make any sense. And then with the taser being yellow and on his chest, for him to shoot my brother with a .357 makes no sense to me and I think it was overkill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Now major questions about Bates' training and what it means for reserve forces across the country.

CNN's Ed Lavandera has more for you from Tulsa.

Good morning.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, we are here in Tulsa waiting for Robert Bates to turn himself in. We were told earlier this morning by his attorney that he would be turning himself in at some point here to the sheriff's officials that he has spent the last seven years volunteering for. But as we await this news to happen, many people still wondering just how a reserve deputy could confuse a bright yellow taser strapped to his chest during this operation for a small black .357 revolver that was in his hand.

So a lot of questions still swirling around that. We obtained a statement that Robert Bates gave to investigators four days after the shooting where he said he was shocked and -- from the recoil of the weapon once it discharged that he was in a state of shock and disbelief to find out that he had pulled a firearm and not the taser after that shooting incident. His attorney and sheriff's official, the leadership here at the sheriff's department still fully supports Robert Bates. They say he -- this was an incident of excusable homicide that given

the capacity he was working in that prosecutors should not have charged him with second-degree manslaughter, Carol.

COSTELLO: Tell us about the relationship between this reserve deputy and the sheriff.

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, that's one of those things that has been really kind of under fire here given the situation. He -- Robert Bates, 73 years old, works as a reserve deputy. This is basically a volunteer position. He's not a full-fledged deputy. You do have to undergo training to get to this point but many people say that it's just not enough especially compared to undercover deputies that have extensive field experience and that sort of thing.

But Robert Bates is someone who by his own attorney's admission has given thousands of dollars worth of equipment, of video equipment and other materials to the sheriff's department. He's been described as a benefactor of the sheriff's department and an intimate friend of the sheriff here in Tulsa. And many from the family of Eric Harris say basically he paid his way into being a cop and many people questioning whether even if he was an experienced reserve deputy if he had any business being on an operation, an undercover operation like the one that he was involved in with Eric Harris.

[10:05:13] COSTELLO: All right. We'll get back to you when he -- when Mr. Bates appears to turn himself in.

Ed Lavandera reporting live from Tulsa this morning.

Want to talk more about this with retired NYPD detective Harry Houck. I'm also joined by criminal defense attorney, Page Pate.

Welcome to both of you and thank you so much for being here.

HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Thanks for having me.

PAGE PATE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Harry, I want to start with you. Let's put up that picture again of the taser and the handgun. Both of them have handles and you'll see that picture in just a minute. I mean, is it an easy mistake to make?

HOUCK: It's hard for me to believe that he made this mistake but then you have to look back. This gentleman was 73 years old. Does he have any kind of -- you've got to look at his mental capacity now. You know. First of all, this guy should not have been on the scene of a professional operation like this going on. This guy is an auxiliary officer. He's a volunteer. All right. You've got an undercover sting operation going. This guy shouldn't be within a mile of this place. A big mistake made by the police department having that man on the scene.

COSTELLO: OK. Well, going back to the weapons for just a second. A handgun would feel different from a taser, right, in weight? Right? HOUCK: Well, look at the color. Couldn't you even -- can't you with

your peripheral vision if you pull them out here that you've got a bright yellow weapon in your hand instead of your handgun? Now most of the time, all right, officers are supposed to have it in the opposite -- if I keep my gun on the right side, you keep the taser on the left side. All right. This way you don't pull one by mistake.

All right. Especially when you really need your handgun. All right. So how this man made this mistake, I have no clue. I really don't.

COSTELLO: So, Page, authorities say this was an excusable homicide. And I suppose that this man could argue that in the heat of the moment he made an honest tragic mistake and he's sorry about it.

PATE: He probably will make that argument but that does not excuse the death in this case. Excusable homicide is like self-defense or some sort of justified killing. In this case I don't think there's a question that the incident was an accident. He didn't mean to pull his gun and shoot Eric Harris. But he did. And under Oklahoma law an accident if it's negligent can constitute manslaughter and that's why they've charged him the way they have.

COSTELLO: OK. So going back to this idea of auxiliary officers, Harry, you said that this man shouldn't have been in this particular situation. So what are the duties of reserve officers normally?

HOUCK: Well, they usually -- like here in New York, traffic, parking, that type of thing. You know, if there's a parade or something like that, they'll handle something like that. See, in New York they don't carry weapons.

COSTELLO: Are they armed? Oh there -- they do not.

HOUCK: Not in New York City. All right. A lot of cities, a lot of states do have armed auxiliary officers and some of them are even on patrol. OK. So -- but they've got to have extensive training for that. All right. So I don't know -- I don't know how much training this gentleman had. You know they said that he -- I think it was in 2009 was the last time he was trained with the --

COSTELLO: He had over 300 hours of police training.

HOUCK: Yes, exactly.

COSTELLO: He concluded when he was supposed to, so he apparently followed all the rules according to the sheriff.

HOUCK: Right. Except the big mistake on the department's part here is putting him in a professional situation where you need professional police officers and not volunteers.

COSTELLO: Page, is it possible that it's more the sheriff's office fault than this 73-year-old man for putting him in that place where he shouldn't have been?

PATE: Carol, I think that's exactly correct if you look at civil liability. There's no question Mr. Harris' family is going to pursue a civil lawsuit here. They will likely sue the officer as well as the department. And I think the department is at fault for not having good policies and procedures to make sure that someone with this individual's lack of training is not in the position where he's required to make that judgment call of should I use my taser? Should I use my firearm. So yes, I certainly think the department has some exposure here.

COSTELLO: All right. Harry Houck, Page Pate, thank you so much. I appreciate you both being with me.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the Iraqi prime minister just minutes away from his first White House meeting with President Obama. He's coming with a very specific request in the fight against ISIS.

[10:09:12]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Iraq's prime minister is scheduled to meet with President Obama in just a few minutes. He's expected to ask for billions of dollars. Billions more in military aid to fight ISIS.

U.S. officials say the prime minister is making progress in enlisting tribal fighters to join Iraqi forces as they prepare to battle ISIS in Anbar Province. The Iraqi government says it is now battling about 70 ISIS firefighters who attacked the country's' largest oil refinery.

Despite the desperate situation in parts of Iraq, U.S. officials say dealing with ISIS will require more than military aid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT MCGURK, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR IRAQ AND IRAN: We're in unchartered territory here. We have to work together as an international coalition. That's why we built this coalition of 62 nations and yes, there is an aggressive comprehensive global campaign strategy to degrade and ultimately defeat this threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Michelle Kosinski joins us live from the White House with more on this. Good morning.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Carol. Right, this meeting is about to happen any minute. You can see these gentlemen standing at attention behind us waiting -- awaiting the arrival of the Iraqi prime minister for about an hour-long meeting with the president. He'll also be meeting with others here looking for a couple of specific things.

I mean, the Iraqis haven't been too shy about talking openly in the press about what they say they need from the U.S. in battling ISIS and basically rebuilding that country. First of all, yes, you named it. Large sums of U.S. dollars. Billions of dollars here for their budget as well as the fight. Also things like drones, attack helicopters, more ammunition, more airstrikes from the U.S.

And the White House hasn't really gotten into those specifics ahead of the meeting. They kind of want to see how this meeting plays out and we'll wait to see if there are any announcements following it. What the White House has said is yes, they are working very closely obviously with the Iraqis on this. Nearly daily conversations about how that fight is going, what more is needed. And we know that the White House has asked Congress for more than $5 billion additionally to fight ISIS. Not just in Iraq but of course now in Syria.

You look at the numbers already, this war against ISIS in both of these countries is costing -- guess how much an hour, Carol? Guess how much fighting ISIS costs per hour to the U.S.

[10:15:02] COSTELLO: It's got to be in the millions, right?

KOSINSKI: OK, yes. I mean, I think that's what I might say, too. It actually costs, according to the Pentagon, about $300,000 an hour. The U.S. has already spent more than $1 billion. But these are small numbers when you compare it to the amount spent obviously by the U.S. over years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. So it's not like this is breaking the bank necessarily. But these are big numbers and we know that the fight against ISIS is going to be a long one and very, very expensive.

What the White House likes to emphasize is that the solution is not going to be only military. It's got to be political. It has to include all groups within Iraq, this reconciliation. And that is what the U.S. wants from Iraq -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Michelle Kosinski reporting live from the White House this morning. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a Maryland mother lets her 10-year-old and 6-year-old go to the park alone. The so-called free-range mom in trouble again.

We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A Maryland mother and self-proclaimed free-range parent may be changing her controversial ways. On Sunday Danielle Meitiv's children were held for over two hours by Child Protective Services. It's the second time in recent months.

So what exactly is a free-range parent anyway?

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIELLE MEITIV, MOTHER: The CPS has succeeded in making me terrified to let my kids out unsupervised because I'm afraid they're going to take them away. SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her

children ages 10 and 6 were playing in this park two and a half blocks away from where they live. When they started walking home on this busy commercial street in the evening, a concerned resident called police.

[10:20:06] MEITIV: They put the kids in the police car and they kept them there for 2 1/2 hours.

MALVEAUX: Police took the kids to Child Protective Services or CPS which was already investigating the family over a similar incident in December. At the time, Meitiv explained to "The Washington Post" she and her husband were raising free-range kids.

MEITIV: It means we are giving our children the childhood that we had. The idea that kids can be trusted to go down the block, to play at the park, to walk home from school.

MALVEAUX: Last month CPS found the Meitivs guilty of unsubstantiated child neglect. The couple was in the process of appealing the decision when their children were picked up again on Sunday.

DR. SUSAN BARTELL, CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST: It's really pretty neglectful. Kids that age shouldn't be left wandering around.

MALVEAUX: Child psychologist Dr. Susan Bartell says giving kids more freedom doesn't mean there are no limits.

BARTELL: If they are old enough to walk next door to the neighbor's house, they're 10 or 11 or 12, that's fine. But they shouldn't be wandering around in a park by themselves unsupervised until they're much older.

MALVEAUX: These children getting caught in the middle of a national debate over the boundaries between free-range parenting and neglect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it's wrong per se.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Free-range raising, no. I don't think so.

MALVEAUX: For Meitivs the scariest thing about letting her children walk alone may be the government agency hovering nearby.

MEITIV: I never was scared of strangers. The people who say that it's dangerous and the world is different have frankly been watching too much TV.

MALVEAUX: Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, Silver Spring, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now just yesterday a leader from yesterday --

(CHEERS)

RUBIO: began a campaign for president by promising to take us back to yesterday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Marco Rubio says Hillary Clinton is a leader of the past. But is he too new to win?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:51] COSTELLO: Happening soon, Hillary Clinton getting ready for her first campaign event of the 2016 race with a thousand miles already behind her, Clinton's road trip began Sunday in New York is pulling into Monticello, Iowa. As part of her vow to have a more personal small group gatherings, Clinton will sit down with some students and educators at Kirkwood Community College.

Yesterday is over and we're never going back. It is time for a new generation to take over. Those words from Republican Marco Rubio who's now officially running for president. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: I believe this is a country that's always been defined by upward mobility, by the ability for equality of opportunity, and I feel we're losing it now and we're losing it because we're not capitalizing on the opportunities or confronting the challenges of this new era and we're never going to be able to do that as long as if we're being led by people who are trapped in the 20th century. It's time for 21st century leadership.

But we have people from yesterday, leaders that are still grounded in the 20th century, who think if we just pour more money into our existing higher education system, we'll get a 21st century result. It isn't true anymore. Senators can help lead us into the 21st century but only presidents can lead us into the 21st century and that's what I'm prepared to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Rubio's words kind of ironic because they echo what Bill Clinton and his wife Hillary Clinton said back in '92. You know, their slogan was don't stop thinking about tomorrow. It's time for a new generation. And as you well know, Hillary Clinton is now trying to rebrand herself into something fresh.

CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston is here to talk about that and more.

Good morning, Mark.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Hey, good morning, Carol. COSTELLO: So it's kind of ironic, right?

PRESTON: It is. You know, if you go back to the early '90s, you remember that campaign, you had that Fleetwood Mac song in your head, "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow." The whole Clinton idea at the time to say it's about time to move on from 12 years of Republican presidency. We saw two terms of course by Ronald Reagan and then his Vice President George H.W. Bush followed him in office.

Bill Clinton defeated him in '92. But it was that whole forward- looking theme that the Clintons were putting forth back in '92. And we saw that last night from Marco Rubio.

COSTELLO: And I just wonder what you -- I thought his speech was really powerful. He's a great speaker. He has a beautiful family. The crowd seemed receptive. A good start for him?

PRESTON: A great start for him. You know, Marco Rubio is very polished. He's certainly a fighter. He wasn't even supposed to be in the United States Senate. He overcame all the odds. Beat the party bosses. He ends up winning in 2010. That's why it's really no surprise now, Carol, that he is running for the presidency.

A lot of people thought that he would take a pass because his good friend and mentor Jeb Bush is running but Marco Rubio has never really stepped down from a challenge and I think that last night he had a very good rollout, a very good speech, a very interesting slogan certainly in these troubled times that we're in -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Mark Preston, thanks so much for your insight. I appreciate it.

This note for you, too. You can hear more from Marco Rubio this afternoon. Tune in to "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper, 4:00 Eastern. Mr. Rubio will sit down with Mr. Tapper.

So the political season now under way. That means it's time for billionaires to put their money behind the man or the woman they want to, you know, become president.

Norman Braman how made his money in auto dealerships is ready to fork over $10 million to Marco Rubio. Here he is on FOX News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORMAN BRAMAN, MARCO RUBIO SUPPORTER: I just think it's time for this country to really move ahead. It's 2016. It's not the 1990s. I don't believe in dynasties. I really think it's time for this country to move beyond the Bushes, to move beyond the Clintons. I think we need new, fresh leadership. And I honestly believe that Senator Marco Rubio can provide that leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Speaking of Jeb Bush, he is pushing his mentee aside when it comes to raising money. He's already signed up many of Mitt Romney's biggest bundlers.

Hillary Clinton is busy, too. Her fundraising goal $2.5 billion. And she has no serious contender in the Democratic primary, at least not yet.

So let's talk about the money.

[10:30:00] Tara Setmayer who is a Republican strategist and CNN political commentator is here, and so is David Gergen who is a former adviser to four president and a CNN senior political analyst.

Welcome to both of you.

There are $2.5 billion.