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CNN TONIGHT

Inside the Cosby Allegations; Eddie Ray Routh Found Guilty in American Sniper Murder

Aired February 24, 2015 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You just saw "No Laughing Matter: Inside the Cosby Allegations." But that's not the end of the story. We have much more to come with the top attorneys who's defended everyone from Dominique Strauss-Kahn to Diddy.

But we also have breaking news in the real-life "American Sniper" trial.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

The jury has begun its deliberations behind closed doors in Stephenville, Texas. You're looking at live pictures now. We could have a verdict at any moment. We'll go live to the courtroom as that happens so make sure you stay tuned.

We've also got a must-see interview with "Empire" creator Lee Daniels. You may be surprised when you hear what he has to say about being black in Hollywood and about Bill Cosby.

We're going to get into all of that tonight but I want to begin with accusations against the man who was once known as many America's dad.

Joining me now "NEW DAY's" Alisyn Camerota.

Man, that was very powerful. We just watched your Cosby special "No Laughing Matter: Inside the Cosby Allegation." I want to play a clip that really stood out to me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY: In the hours we spent with her, she shared painful, intimate details about the past 30 years. And she was stoic, that is, until the end of our last interview.

BARBARA BOWMAN: Oh, my god. People are listening. My story is told. I am not lying. And now people know it. And I'm so sad for all of us, but it validates every one of us to be able to compare our stories and see the similarities, and knowing in our heart, finally, did it happen? Did it happen? Did it really happen? Yes, it really happened. And it's over. It's over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Wow. Do you think all the -- it's tough, right?

CAMEROTA: It's intense.

LEMON: Do you think all the other accusers coming forward, do you think that's helping?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEMON: Yes, you do?

CAMEROTA: I mean, they've all talked about this. They've talked about how this groundswell of support that knowing that you're not alone. So many of them either carried this secret or just shouldered this, and thought I guess I am the only one who had this horrible experience, and now that more than two dozen women have come forward, I know that they are talking to each other. They formed sort of a little mini support group.

LEMON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Because it's so important to have this strength in numbers for them.

LEMON: And we did that special hour with the number of -- the victims. I actually call them survivors.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: They do call themselves survivors. You're right.

LEMON: Survivors. Why did you choose Barbara for this particular --

CAMEROTA: You know Barbara is such an interesting person as you know. You were one of the first people to interview her this time around in November. She's strong. She has a vivid memory of these things. And the reason that we focus on her is because she started this latest tsunami. She's the person who, back in November, went public and wrote an op-ed for the "Washington Post" and said, I was raped by Bill Cosby, and it was because of that article that other women felt --

LEMON: Empowered.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Gave them a voice to come forward.

LEMON: Gave them a voice to come forward.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEMON: She said -- as you were there next to her and she broke down, she said, "This is over. This is over." What's next for her, do you think?

CAMEROTA: You know, she is beginning to work with victims of sexual violence. There's an organization, ShatteringtheSilence.org, that you can go to, and it's just supporting victims. So she has found a way to turn this into feeling empowered and to reaching out and helping others. LEMON: What do you think is next for -- you know, what do you think

is next for Bill Cosby? It's hard to talk about him because -- he was an American icon, and still is, and now this. What do you think is next for him?

CAMEROTA: I mean, look what's happening with him. It's so interesting because while there have been some big projects that had been canceled, he's still on a comedy tour, as we speak, and he's still going, and there are times that he is being met with standing ovations, there are times that he's being met with protests outside, or people calling him names.

LEMON: But still not talking out about it.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEMON: He's still not -- he's still not responding to it.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Absolutely. In fact, we should also say right now that Bill Cosby declined our request for an interview. We did reach out but in the recent months, his attorneys had vehemently denied the many accusations of sexual assault that had been made against him. They have called the story the product of innuendos, fabricated lies and media vilification.

LEMON: Thank you, Alisyn Camerota. Appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: Thanks a lot, Don.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

LEMON: The breaking news into CNN, we're hearing that there is a verdict in the Eddie Ray Routh case, the man accused of killing Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield back in February of 2013.

Our entire team is here working on the story. Ben Brafman, the famed attorney, is here joining us. He's going to help us -- help guide us through that. Ed Lavandera is our man on the scene in Stephenville, Texas.

Ed, we got the 15-minute warning. What are you hearing?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, just that. We have 15 minutes, we will be able to bring you this verdict live. There have been rules in place by the judge here in this case that have kind of kept us from broadcasting audio from inside the courtroom during the trial. But arrangements have been made to be able to provide live coverage of this verdict as it will be read here in Stephenville, Texas, in the next 15 minutes or so. We just got that word.

This jury has been deliberating since about 6:30 Central Time, 7:30 Eastern, so just about 2 1/2 hours, and we do know that part of that time was spent eating dinner after a long day of testimony, so clearly whatever this jury, whichever decision this jury has come to, they came to it extremely quickly given the complexity and just how many people thought that it could go either way in this case in many ways, so a very quick and swift verdict here. And we were told that they were prepared to work late into the night.

And also, Don, let me explain to you a couple of things the way this will play out. Essentially there are only two ways this is going to go. Guilty, and he would be sent to prison for life without the possibility of parole. The prosecutors have taken the death penalty off of the table here, so there is only one possible punishment and that is, if he is found guilty, life in prison without the possibility of parole.

If he is found not guilty by reason of insanity, he would then be sent to a state mental hospital, presumably for years. It would take a court order for him to be released. But theoretically that is an acquittal. So the defense attorney said in closing arguments just a few hours ago that, you know, who are we kidding here. There are only two options.

Defense attorneys have fully admitted that Eddie Ray Routh was the one that shot and killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield just over two years ago at that countryside gun range. So that's how this situation will play out here. And after the verdict is read, they will move swiftly into the sentencing phase. And we are expecting to hear victim's statements after that verdict is read.

We're not -- we're not exactly sure who that will be, presumably Taya Kyle, Chris Kyle's wife. It seems to be, you know, the smart guess at this point. But, you know, it will be a busy night here as this trial that has been going on for exactly two weeks comes to a swift end here this evening.

LEMON: All right. Ed Lavandera, stand by. We'll need you throughout this.

Again, our breaking news here on CNN. There has been a verdict in the Eddie Ray Routh case, the man accused of killing Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. And of course we know Chris Kyle is the famed sniper from the Iraq war and the movie "American Sniper" was written about him. It is basically his life story.

Again, I want to tell you what they're deliberating here. This is like a capital murder trial. Again, as Ed Lavandera reported, not guilty, guilty or not guilty by -- excuse me, guilty, not guilty, or not guilty by reason of insanity.

If he is guilty, of course, this is life in prison without the possibility of parole. And as Ed said, they took the death penalty off the table. Not guilty, of course, is highly unlikely because he has admitted to killing both of those men, and if he is found not guilty by reason of insanity, he will go to a state prison -- a hospital where -- whether or not he can be released will be decided by authorities at a later point in time.

Eddie Ray Routh was 25 years old at the time when he committed that crime. 27 years old now. And also Kyle, 38 years old at the time. Littlefield was 35 in just a few days. He would have turned 36 had he not been killed by the man. Ten women on this jury.

I want to bring in now famed attorney, a man who's really represented everyone from Dominique Strauss-Kahn to Diddy, Attorney Ben Brafman.

Ben, are you surprised that they came to a verdict this quickly?

BENJAMIN BRAFMAN, ATTORNEY: I'm surprised but when you think about this trial, I think you have to also expect that maybe it's going to be an emotional verdict where they don't need to go through the testimony. This is not a knee-jerk reaction. It's emotional reaction. You have one of the most popular heroic figures of this generation. "American Sniper." Could not be a worst time to be on trial for murdering him.

And there is no not guilty here. It's either not guilty by reason of insanity or it's guilty. And if you're going to do not guilty by reason of insanity, you're a jury doing that, you have to reexamine the psychiatrist testimony. You would have read-backs and I think an emotional verdict is he killed this man and he killed these men, and he should be found guilty.

LEMON: And you talked about the psychological impact. His attorneys have argued that he was dealing with issues even post-traumatic stress disorder. The prosecution is saying -- the defense said that he was (INAUDIBLE). The prosecution is saying not so, they believe that this was a put on and that he was -- he knew what he was doing and the consequences of what he was doing. In fact saying that he knew that it was wrong shortly after he did it.

BRAFMAN: To be not guilty by reason of insanity, you have to be able to demonstrate that you didn't know the difference between right and wrong. Having some type of dysfunctional problems is not a legal defense to what looked like a pretty vicious murder . And the last evidence that they played on -- that they admitted in the rebuttal was evidence of a reconstruction of the murder scene which showed that Kyle was shot several times in the back. So --

LEMON: Chris Kyle was shot four times in the back, one time in the face or in the head, and also Chad Littlefield was shot five times in the back. It's believed that he killed Chad Littlefield first, Kyle got to see that and then he shot him. But he waited until both men -- they were at the shooting range. He waited for both men to unload their weapons before he killed them. And does that possibly lead to premeditation?

BRAFMAN: Doesn't have to lead to premeditation, but it clearly demonstrates that he knew what he was doing, that he was planning what he was doing even if it was only for a short time, and that he wasn't acting by reason of legal insanity. And there are a number of things that suggest consciousness of guilt, that what he knew he was doing was wrong, he ran away from the scene, he tried to avoid the police capture.

And, you know, to step up and kill a person who is like a real American hero, and then say, by the way, I had issues that I was dealing with, I would be surprised that this jury finds him not guilty by reason of insanity in such a short deliberation.

LEMON: But, Ben, he did have issues because he had gone to the hospital for reasons -- let see, let me find the information that I have here. It says that he had gone to the hospital, I believe, in January, shortly before. Here it is right here. His relatives and police said in recent weeks and months that he had been troubled.

This is an article from 2013, which is from "The New York Times." It said that, according to court documents, he had been undergoing treatment at a Dallas V.A. Medical Center and Green Oaks Hospital, a psychiatric center in Dallas on January -- January 24th, again this was in 2013 shortly before the killings.

He was released from that V.A. center, then returned and then he again released on January 29th, so he was being treated, released, then returned and released again. And his family protested that release because they said he was dealing with issues.

Will this factor into the verdict?

BRAFMAN: It's a factor but this judge has not discretion if he's convicted. The murder just got to give him life in prison, you know, to the extent that there was a law of crime that he could be convicted of, if it wasn't just capital murder, then if it's manslaughter, yes, all of those are issues. But most soldiers coming back from combat deal with issues. Dealing with an issue, if even it's a serious issue, doesn't necessarily rise to the level of insanity that would absolve you of murder.

Now God bless this jury. If they find him not guilty, they heard the testimony, we did not. They examined the experts. But watching this trial from afar, it's a reach. And I mentioned this earlier. The -- a lot of people who've been watching this case, the emotional dynamics of this trial outside the courtroom were the worst possible nightmare for a defense lawyer trying a case, hoping for a jury that was not tainted by -- you have Kyle's widow speaking at every radio and talk show and I think it's hard not to feel very sorry that he's dead.

LEMON: The impact of the movie, this movie being one of the highest grossing movies of all time. The highest grossing war movie of all time. But really, one of the highest grossing movies of all time, and not to mention the book which is still on the best seller list.

BRAFMAN: Right. I mean, people read, people see, people hear, and if you ask the average person on the street, what did you know about Kyle, they say he was an American hero. You kill an American hero, juries understand that it's not just another person who was murdered but somebody that's been portrayed by a massive media as being a hero.

LEMON: As you see it there on the screen, we're -- awaiting a verdict at any minute now. We have been told -- we were told just about maybe five minutes ago that there would be -- within the next 15 minutes, we would hear a verdict from the jury in Stephenville, Texas. Of course they're weighing the fate of Eddie Ray Routh, now 27 years old, former Marine who is accused of killing Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield.

Chris Kyle, of course, is a famed sniper and a former military member who was -- who was credited with killing -- having the most killed among any American sniper in the military. And also Chad Littlefield who was his friend and workout partner.

That killing happened back in Texas -- Texas in -- on February 2nd of 2013, almost one year and one month -- excuse me, two years and one month to the day now, that we're now going to get the verdict to find out exactly what he should do. Again, what his fate will be.

And let me, again, our Ed Lavandera who's on the scene went through this and he told you what's going to happen. I want to tell you again. The judge is set to go all night as he said to the jury's discretion, and so the jury has decided they have a verdict. After the verdict, they're going to go directly into the sentencing phase, and then the judge will handle that sentencing, and then of course, there will be a victim's impact statement.

And as Ed Lavandera said, it will likely be from the widow Taya Kyle, and we will not hear that, and then after that they will have to decide the sentencing, and then -- if they had not reached a verdict tonight, the jury would have been sequestered, but apparently that is not going to happen.

Our man who's covering the trial, and covering this verdict now is CNN's Ed Lavandera who joins us now live from that courthouse.

Ed, we are only moments away from this verdict. Are you hearing anything?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, I'm just watching the feed as you can see there, the people kind of milling around inside the courtroom there, and kind of give you a sense of a lot of those men that you see there in the sport coats and the jeans, those are law enforcement officials. There have been at least a dozen or so of them throughout -- inside the courtroom throughout most of this testimony.

That door that you see there is the door that Eddie Ray Routh will enter into this courtroom here at any moment, as they prepare and -- from what I can tell on the feed as well that the judge is not even in the courtroom just yet. So obviously, you know, taking some time for everybody to get into place, letting the word spread.

As the shot was a little bit wider there, Don, I still did not see Taya Kyle inside the court courtroom there but on that wider shot, you might have noticed a gentleman in a green -- in a green sweater there, at the bottom of your screen. That is one of Taya Kyle's good friends, the former tight end, a legend with the Dallas Cowboys football team, a man by the name of Jay Novacek.

He and his wife has become intimate friends of Taya Kyle. They have been with her throughout this entire trial sitting next to her. I don't see Taya Kyle in there right now. But I think I believe I see Chad Littlefield's parents, I think -- his mother is the woman that you might see there in the blue sweater. So that side of the courtroom is where the victims' families have been sitting. Taya Kyle and her friends in one row, Chad Littlefield's family behind her as well as Chris Kyle's brother Jeff who has been here throughout all of this testimony, during the courts, the last two weeks. And then on the other side of that aisle that you see there, from time

to time, we've seen those family members of Eddie Ray Routh, if they have been allowed to be in the courtroom. Many of his family members were witnesses, so they weren't necessarily allowed to sit inside the courtroom throughout much of the testimony. But a lot of those people in there, we see --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: OK, Ed Lavandera, we're going to go into the courthouse now.

LAVANDERA: (INAUDIBLE) enter the courtroom.

LEMON: Yes. Ed, we're going to go into the courtroom now. We see Eddie Ray Routh entering the courtroom with his defense attorneys. And as Ed mentioned, he believes that the widow is there, and friends of the widow as well.

Again, this is all happening in the courtroom in Stephenville, Texas. It doesn't look like the judge has entered the courtroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All rise.

LEMON: And here is the judge entering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. I have been advised that the jury has reached a verdict. The record reflect that the jury is not in the courtroom at this time, and state's counsel, as well as defense counsel and the defendant. Let's bring the jury in.

You may be seated in the courtroom. All right. Let the record reflect that the jury has returned to the courtroom at this time.

And Miss Stafford, you're the foreperson of the jury?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been advised that the jury has reached a verdict in this matter. Is this correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you'll hand that verdict for me through the bailiff, if you please, ma'am.

Mr. Routh, will you please stand?

All right. We the jury find the defendant Eddie Ray Routh guilty of the felony offense and capital murder as charged in the indictment. The verdict is signed by Miss Stafford as foreperson of the jury.

You may be seated at this time.

You wish to have the jury polled?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, judge. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. The request to have the jury polled

has been made at this time. What I will do at this point is individual. We'll start with the first seat

The first juror, now I will ask you the same question of each and every juror.

Is this a unanimous verdict of the jury? Answer out loud.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror two, is this a unanimous verdict?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number three, is this a unanimous verdict?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number four?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number five?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number six?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number seven?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number eight?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number nine?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number 10?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number 11?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And juror number 12?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, your honor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. This completes your service as jurors in this matter. Now we'll receive your verdict in this matter. I'll hand it to the clerk to have it filed. With the papers of the court at this time.

All right. Mr. Routh, if you please stand again. Having received and accepted the jury's verdict in this matter by statute, I will now impose sentence in this matter. Confinement for life in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice without the possibility of parole.

That's the verdict of this court, and I will enter the judgment accordingly, you may be seated at this time again.

I will continue. Mr. St. John, as your attorney in this matter with regard to your rights to appeal, and that includes a direct appeal to the Eastland Court of Appeals. That's the home of the 11th Court of Appeals which is the court for this jurisdiction, and also your rights with regards to filing a petition for discretionary review with the Court of Criminal Appeals in Texas.

I will remand your custody to the sheriff of the county to carry out the imposition of the judgment of this court and the jury's verdict in this matter.

Do you have any legal reason to state at this time why the sentence should not be imposed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would submit to the court he's legally insane therefore cannot receive (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine.

LEMON: OK. There you heard it, the jury finding Eddie Ray Routh guilty, and the judge saying that he is going to spend the rest of his life in prison, no parole. Again, guilty. Judge Jason Cashin asking the foreperson to approach the bench and render the verdict. He asked Routh, Eddie Ray Routh, to please stand which he did. And then he read the verdict. He said the verdict is guilty, and then he polled the jury and every single jury said it was their -- indeed their verdict.

He also said again he's going to be placed in prison without the possibility of parole, and also, he was going to be -- he's going to be remanded or he will remain in custody until he has to go off to prison.

I want to turn now to our legal experts, Mark Geragos, CNN legal analyst and defense attorney, Kimberly Priest Johnson, defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, and Mark O'Mara, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney.

We're also joined by Richard Gabriel, a trial consultant and the author of "Acquittal," and then on set here is Ben Brafman who has been watching this with me as well.

First to Mark O'Mara, it's not a surprise, is it, Mark O'Mara?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it's not a surprise, but I think there is a note that we should take at this point, and to realize that there is a day of sadness and it's for this. Not just a loss of an American hero, but it's frustrating to us as criminal defense attorneys that somebody who is obviously mentally ill, not insane, but mentally ill, like this defendant was, has no other alternative but a life sentence because of the minimum mandatory sentencing.

And you have to believe that there may be something better that we can do with a defendant who is acting at least in part on some mental illness than to just throw his whole life away even though he wasted the life of another or two others.

LEMON: It took the jury really only two and a half hours to reach a decision. Is that unusual, Mark Geragos?

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: In a case like this, no. I don't think that is, and I think Ben Brafman, my buddy who's sitting on set with you was spot-on when Ben said that in a case like this, if it's a quick verdict, you know that it's going to be a guilty because there's no way that 12 people are going to instantly go or gravitate to not guilty by reason of insanity. They would have struggled more mightily to have come to that because this is a relatively rare verdict for the defense to get, a not guilty by reason of insanity.

And in this case, timing is everything because obviously coming on the heels of the Academy Awards and the Oscars, and then having the deliberations, and having the jury go out, and if they have to go, they go all night, and they figured they weren't going to go all night. They were going to go two hours, and that was it.

LEMON: Yes. As a matter of fact, as before the verdict was being read, Mr. Brafman wrote me a note saying -- here in the set saying, he never saw a criminal trial with the defense of insanity in end with a not guilty absent extensive deliberations. Too complex legally, you say.

BRAFMAN: Yes, I mean, the facts were not in dispute in this case.

LEMON: Yes.

BRAFMAN: And the fact is pretty much stipulated to, and then the issue is was he insane, and at the end of the day if you're going to acquit of a cold blooded murder unless you're insane, you need to understand the law, you need to debate the law, you need to explain it to each other, and that's complicated issue. If you're going to react emotionally, and say he killed two men and I don't buy this insanity, that's emotional.

And Mark O'Mara said something which I think I echo. There is an element of real sadness and tragedy in this case. I mean, three soldiers are essentially dead. Two are dead, and one is going to be warehoused forever. And, you know, it's a real American tragedies that three people come back from war as heroes, one, you know, killed, two and all three are now gone. That's a terrible tragedy.

LEMON: Mark O'Mara, the bar for an insanity -- to get insanity in Texas is pretty high.

O'MARA: It's very high actually. It's one of the highest standards we have because you have to -- it has to be based upon a mental e defect, and you have to not know it was wrong, so in effect, what the prosecutor did a pretty good job of, in this case, showing look, if we're going to believe he didn't know right from wrong, if he did not know it was wrong, why run away? Why kill the way he did? Why do everything else that he did which would suggest that he knew what he was doing knew had to do it right?

It's very difficult throughout the nation, more difficult in Texas, and nowhere do you get many insanity defenses as even plead and much fewer are granted.

LEMON: And for those of you who are just tuning in, again, you see Eddie Ray Routh, killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield back in 2013, February 2nd. He has been found guilty by a jury in Texas, that verdict happening live now on CNN, and the reason we don't have a feed of the courtroom right now, Kimberly Priest Johnson, is because there is a victim impact statement going on.

It is believed that is -- happening from the widow of Chris Kyle, Taya Kyle, but again this has been very emotional for the jury, reaching this decision has been very emotional for them.

KIMBERLY PRIEST JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, it has been very emotional, and we've seen Taya Kyle be very emotional throughout the entire trial.

Look, the defense had an uphill battle from the very beginning, not only because there was an American hero and his best friend that were the victims, but also don't forget we had a drug and alcohol use issue, where there was proof that Routh had used alcohol and drugs prior to the killings, and I think those two things combined made it almost impossible for the defense to be successful here.

LEMON: Richard Gabriel, talk to us about this jury, 10 women on this jury. Did that make a difference?

RICHARD GABRIEL, AUTHOR, "ACQUITTAL": Well, I think it did. I mean, you have 10 women and two men. When you have that many women or that many men on the jury, it obviously what ends up happening is the -- what happens is that the chances for division are greatly reduced. You have a lot of unanimity there, a lot of people locking this step, let's face it. It's a town of 18,000 people also. And for the most part everybody knows each other. So these women probably knew of each other or knew each other. They probably got along, and I think that all contributed to the quickness of the verdict.

LEMON: How do you think the publicity played into this -- played into this? And the fact that Chris Kyle is a hero not only there in Texas, I would imagine he's a super hero in Texas, but just around the country, really, and around the world.

How much of that played into the jurors -- the jurors there? GABRIEL: It -- I think it always played into it. And this is one of

the big challenges is, as Mark and Ben have experienced in these big cases, these becomes social verdicts. Jurors are not just deliberating on the evidence alone. They are listening to and they are knowing that the world is actually watching the verdict.

So this is a verdict about Chris Kyle as much as it is about Eddie Ray Routh. It's a verdict about our veterans and some verdict about our system. These verdicts have -- carry an impact, and as a result, this jury was aware when it was deliberating that -- you know, we'd be discussing it right here now.

LEMON: OK. I want everyone on my entire panel to stand by. We're going to get back now to Stephenville, Texas.

CNN's Ed Lavandera has been covering this trial since it started. He joins us now.

Ed, we have a guilty verdict, you were watching the courthouse, you're outside of the court house. I'm not sure if there's been any reaction, but what do you -- what do you know?

LAVANDERA: Well, those victim statements have just started and one of those people speaking is Don Littlefield, the father of Chad Littlefield. We've been told originally that there might be only one person doing this victim's impact statement, but obviously that is changed. So that is just now unfolding, we're listening, as soon we are able to get more details exactly of what is being said, we'll quickly pass those along, along to you as we get those, Don.

LEMON: All right, CNN's Ed Lavandera there, I want to bring in my panel up, but I want to go back to Ben Brafman. Ben, did you want to add something here?

BENJAMIN BRAFMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's interesting that for having victim impact statements after the sentence has already imposed. The most cases where judges considering what sentence to impose, the victim impact statements come first and an attempt to show the judge exactly what the victims of this crime.

LEMON: Do you think that this happened because the judge shows -- this is the harshest, Right? This is the stiff episode (ph) would not change.

BRAFMAN: It wouldn't change, that's why the...

LEMON: it wouldn't change, right.

BRAFMAN: The irony is that they are having a victim impact statement which is usually used to sway the court, they doing and it is after the sentence is imposed and the only effect, the victim impact statement does is it gives a voice to the victims which is, I guess appropriate in the eyes of the loved ones who survived, and it gives a platform. And I think that's one of the questions I think you, you cogently asked. This is not a trial in the vacuum. This is the worst possibly scenario for a defendant to go to the trial, this kid (inaudible) laboring glory (ph). The hero, Oscars, a movie that was hugely popular, and the person who was huge -- people who were hugely popular, and then a defense where I got drunk and I got used drugs, and the judge saying voluntary tax occasion non of defense.

LEMON: And you had so much video, you have so much evidence, right? You know, forensic evidence, you have the video of him on the chase afterwards. You had his, his family statements and on and on and on. Mark, I wanted to ask you something quickly here when you said, you know, basically when said three lives are lost here, even though Eddie Ray Routh has the life, you know --

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Of course.

LEMON: About (inaudible) the other two gentlemen did not have that option by the way, but do you think the jury should have had another option here, Mark O'Mara?

O'MARA: Well, you know, unfortunately they don't under most states status for first degree murder. My frustration with the minimum man's choice penalty (ph) like this is that it does take discretion away from a judge. Look, we trust judges with the defendant lives and with our own decisions and -- I don't know why we can't say to a judge. Look, in a particular case where it may be as much as life, but we will give you some discretion, because I think that we might all agree in this case, if we can look at the sentence appropriate for what he did, as heinous as it was, we might not come up with the life sentence, we might come up with a long-term incarceration, we may still give him an opportunity to have some like, particularly with his mental health condition. I just don't like the idea that we take discretion away from judges, so that we don't have the ability to be some more sensitive and understanding of what they go through.

BRAFMAN: And in the case were that the defendant has changed physically, so dramatically since the time of his arrest, his almost like he had done even recognize him as the same person.

LEMON: I noticed that -- I noticed that as we were watching this evening awaiting the verdicts and watching the show preceding this on the Newscast on Anderson show. And just the difference, how different he looked and I wondered if that impacted. Kimberly, you were in court today, for the closing, for the last testimony and the closing statements, and it was very powerful, and one could not -- as they showed some of the video, you couldn't help but see just how different he looked.

KIMBERLY PRIEST JOHNSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: That's true. However, I'm not sure that this jury -- remember the prosecution's mental health experts, actually went so far as saying that Routh not only was not mentally ill, but that he actually faked his mental illness. And so -- you know, I'm not sure that the jury believes that he has this severe of a mental illness. Of course, we don't know. But you know, there was -- there was a lot of evidence in this case, it's where the things that in my opinion makes this very unusual. We have so much evidence, because we had evidence during -- of what happened during the crime, what happened after the crime, and in lots of conversations with psychologists and, and investigators after. And remember that the -- the issue, it's not whether Routh was mentally ill or not, it's whether he knew that what he did was wrong. And what the prosecution did, very well in my opinion was show all of these multiple facts that went to whether or not Routh knew what he did was wrong, and over, and over, he said himself, I know what I did was wrong.

LEMON: Yeah, I'm glad you said that because -- I was going to say that also, Mark Geragos, the defense only had one witness. The prosecution had two, one mental health expert. The prosecution had more than that, I think they have two.

JOHNSON: Yes, that, too --

LEMON: Mark Geragos.

MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, if you -- it's OK. The -- look, the -- to say this was an uphill battle is one of the great understatement of our time. The timing could not have been worse, and there is not a whole lot of sympathy if you will of the defendant other than the fact that he has given service to his country. I mean, when you look at the facts of this, there was a text where Kyle said at the time, "this guy is straight the up nuts." I mean, you know, part of the -- part of the struggle in the case like this is, look, if people -- you don't have to prove motive but, what was the motive if this guy wasn't just certifiable, or straight up nuts. What was the -- I mean, it certainly wasn't for money, it certainly wasn't a robbery, it wasn't to collect on the insurance proceeds, I mean this guy was delusional at some level. Unfortunately, to what we've done in America is we have criminalize the mentally ill in a lot of ways, and we have made the jails and the prisons in the last 30 years become kind of our mental institutions. And -- you know, I don't know that, that makes much sense but that's the way it is.

BRAFMAN: That's why the mandatory sentence is -- is inappropriate, because when you're challenging the verdict, let's assume the verdict is spot-on accurate. Said what would be the harm in 30 years, 30 years he was re-examined by a team of psychiatrist who said you know what? He's gotten better, he's change, he's no longer a danger, were going to start releasing him to outpatient treatment center. Maybe, maybe, that happens. Maybe it doesn't, but the take the discretion away from the court forever? I mean, that's like the death penalty, because it's forever and he's never going to get out and he doesn't have a chance to get out, and everyone is saying the same thing. He's clearly got serious issues. May not be crazy, but you can be -- not insane, but you can be nuts. And when you're nuts, you should get treatment.

LEMON: 27-year-old Eddie Ray Routh, a former marine has now been found guilty of killing Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield back in 2013 at a gun range in Texas. Chris Kyle had been working with him or trying to work with him, to help him to move back into society. He had been depressed, he had been dealing with mental issues, Eddie Ray Routh had Chris Kyle, Chad Littlefield take him to a gun range to somehow help him to make him belong, and the conversation in the car as we have heard from the testimony in the courtroom between Chris Kyle and between Chad Littlefield is that Chris Kyle sent a text to Chad, even though they are both sitting in the car saying "this guy is straight up crazy." At some point during interviews, Eddie Ray Routh had said that part of his motivation for killing the two men was at they weren't talking to him. On that, he was upset because they didn't think of they were taking him seriously, and at one point Chad Littlefield wasn't taking part in the shootings. And so, he hasn't really given a cohesive answer as to why he killed the men. It's just sort of been nonsensical about what happened, but then saying that he knew it was wrong immediately after he did, but he had to do it. And at some point saying that he was fighting with demons or --

BRAFMAN: Listening to the voices.

LEMON: Listening, listening to the voices. As a matter of fact, this is the video that you are looking at him hours after the shooting in a back of a police car after they chase him down, he went to Taco Bell and got two burritos and ate and then went to his sister's home in Chris Kyle's truck which he fled in. His sister then called authorities and they tracked him down and went on the -- on a wild chase through the streets of Texas. And there you see that police chase on your screen there, you can see smashing into several cars and the police entering the vehicle and then take him into custody. At the police station, he confessed to killing both men, and now you have it, the court -- the case was taken to court, the trial. Two years later, two years and almost one month to the day of February 2nd, that it would be -- at that it would be two years to the date, two years and one month to the date.

As a matter of fact they want to get to there, I want to show you pictures of what's happening outside the courthouse room, we're waiting now for a press conference. That should take place just a little bit outside of the courthouse and that's we're -- we're looking at the pictures, we have seen movement inside of the courthouse, people working to and fro. Right now, a victim impact statement is happening, as Ed Lavandera said, they believe that was only going to be one, there were possibly be more than one victim impact statement. CNN's Ed Lavandera has been covering the trial. Ed, when last we spoke, you said that that Don Littlefield, the dad of Chad Littlefield was giving an impact statement, what are you hearing now?

LAVANDERA: Well, we just get into relative including Chad Littlefield father, Taya Kyle did not speak as we thought that might have happen, so that, that did not happen. But it's already over and everybody starting, everything is starting to unwind, incredibly emotional, incredibly powerful as the relatives of Chad Littlefield kind of unleashed it at Eddie Ray Routh. One relative saying quote, "You took the lives of two heroes, men who tried to be a friend to you, and you became an American disgrace. Your inhumanity and your disregard for life will put you in a world you will never escape."

I think that in -- in his itself and by itself speak to volumes to the pain and anguish that the relatives of Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield have endured. Not only for the last two years, but for the last two weeks is that they've seen up close the -- at times gruesome evidence that was displayed before this jury. And in this case, many of those relative saying inside the courtroom, when some of the most gruesome and some of the most difficult the testimony and evidence was displayed before this jury and it's all over here tonight in Stephenville, Texas, Don.

LEMON: Richard Gabriel is a trial consultant. I want to ask you this Richard, you say, that jurors have their own -- shall we say yardstick in terms of the mental illness incoming to a verdict when it comes to mental illness. Explain that to us.

RICHARD GABRIEL, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, what happen is they -- you know, all the experts in the world can get up on the witness stand and talk about the -- MMPI's or the various tests approve. But the truth is that it is what they feel really means what insanity means for them. The people that they have known, the veterans that they have known that have come home. I think ultimately they have to compare, I think one of the yardsticks they have is, well, if anybody is entitled to PTSD, Chris Kyle is, this guy never saw combat, so they take a lot of this behavioral pieces in measurement and then say, well, what is really insanity? Is it sort of jibbering insane, and obviously, the mental health professionals was tell you that people can be quite lucid and insane, but everybody has their own personal definition on the jury to...

LEMON: Richard.

GABRIEL: Really what they think is insane or not.

LEMON: I just want to alert our viewers that again, that we're waiting there, you see them getting ready for a press conference here -- alerting this press, giving him information as to what is going to happen.

LAVANDER: Littlefield will be out in just a moment to make a statement. She will not be answering any questions.

LEMON: OK. He's saying that Ms. Littlefield will be out in the moment and making statements but not answering any questions. Ed Lavandera is there, Ed can you hear me? IS he talking about -- who is he talking about there? The mother?

LAVANDERA: He was talking about the Littlefield's mother, and the person you just saw there, Don is, is one of the police officer here is Stephenville who is been a liaison for us. Mostly news media and obviously crowd control and security here in at the courthouse in Stephenville so, that's an officer we got know pretty well here over the last couple of weeks and has he helped us out with the logistics and kind of getting a lay of the land and how things will unfold. So, that's what you were seeing there a moment ago and obviously saying that one of the family members will be coming out. I missed the top of it, but I believe he said that it was Mrs. Littlefield, Chad Littlefield's mother...

LEMON: You said, yes.

LAVANDER: Who will be coming out speaking briefly and not taking any questions.

LEMON: OK, so Ed Lavandera, standby. Mark O'Mara...

O'MARA: Yes.

LEMON: the jury heard from Routh's interview with The New Yorker, Remember we talked about that, they heard from that today. And then he said, "I don't why I did it, but I did it, and it tore my effin (ph) heart out when I did it." Did his own statements combine with the fact that he fled the scene point to guilt?

O'MARA: Well it did. I actually have a case having right now with the -- my client, the heinous act and he actually was there when the police showed up and had no idea what they were complaining about. That's insanity. When somebody does something and if you really look through and if I want to be the prosecutor for it, when look at the case and say, well, he was going after Littlefield, because he didn't like him. But then he said in the statement, I had to kill Kyle, because he would have killed me, because of what I did. That's a rational thought. Then he decides to leave, that's flight from the scene, taking the car, driving down the right side of the road, doing all of those things that evidence rational behavior. If you can show rational behavior wrapped on both sides of the event, the killing, then it is much more difficult to show that the insanity is such a narrow slice. The one slice you really want to be excused for a criminal act. So I think the statements in The New Yorker and all of these things other things really showed him to be much more sane than insane -- mentally ill, absolutely, but, sane under the law.

LEMON: Kimberly, you were in court today, the last witness today for the prosecution described how the men were killed. Which order?

JOHNSON: Yes.

LEMON: Chad Littlefield first, then Chris Kyle, and then what he did? Chris Kyle first and then Chad Littlefield and then what he did...

JOHNSON: Right.

LEMON: Afterwards.

JOHNSON: Right. And you know it's interesting hearing the victims statement from the Littlefield family, I think today with the particularly difficult day for them in court, because what is last witness testified to was that Chris Kyle died quickly, he didn't see it coming, he didn't have a chance to do anything, his gunshot wounds were in one small place on the right side of his body. Chad Littlefield on the other hand, died in excruciating, painful death, in a way that Routh pursued him. He shot him twice in the back, he sort of stalked around and then after --

LEMON: Kimberly, let's get to -- we need to get to this press conference. Here's Chad Littlefield's mother.

JOHNSON: OK.

JUDY LITTLEFIELD, MOTHER OF CHAD LITTLEFIELD: Well he just want to say that we've waited two years for God to give justice for us on behalf of our son, and as always God has proved to be faithful. And we're so thrilled that -- that we have the verdict that we have tonight and thank you, guys, for being so compassionate, and treating us with respect and -- and honoring us. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

CROWD: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, ma'am.

LEMON: Ed Lavandera that is Judy Littlefield, Chad Littlefield's mother? Correct?

LAVANDERA: Yes, you are right, Don.

LEMON: Yeah, and she is thanking everyone including the press and the people who came out to the courtroom for treating them with kindness. Tell us about the environment surrounding this proceeding and at that courthouse.

LAVANDER: You know, that the Littlefield family, you know very interesting in a lot of this, because -- tonight, in closing arguments, prosecutors started off by talking about how -- how this trial has been referred to as the American Sniper trial held. Prosecutors thought in many ways, that was unfair, almost like Chad Littlefield in many ways was, was often forgot, and I know that in our reporting we've tried to be extremely cognizant of that, and always making sure we mentioned Chad Littlefield. But obviously, it's Chris Kyle that has garnered -- the vast majority of the attention, he was the one with the bestselling book, the blockbuster movie and Chad Littlefield was his friend who went out there with him that day, as Taya Kyle put it a second set of eyes for him. He was just a man who was - didn't not served in the military of ahead connected well with Chris Kyle, after Chris Kyle had left the military and they have become best of friend. Chad Littlefield did not have to go to that the gun range, he went out there to support his buddy Chris Kyle that day, and you can imagine -- you have Chad Littlefield felt compelled, he felt strongly about what his friend Chris Kyle was doing, and trying to help veterans, and -- you know, he went out there with him to be a second set of eyes, and to be with his buddy that day.

LEMON: Yeah.

LAVANDER: You know, I talked to one of a -- a man named Brandon Webb today who was a Navy SEAL with Chris Kyle. We talked about how -- you know that moment, and a lot of his friends picture that moment as they driving out there to that gun range. That to a lot of their friends still gives them chills when they think about what was going on in the car that day.

LEMON: And Chad Littlefield was I believe a week or so from his 36th birthday, he was 35-years-old at the time. Family members described and also in the obituary said that Chad with -- will tell you that he was a regular guy, just taking care of business, and that he was happy spending time with his family and with his friends, that's what they wrote in the obituary which was published, you can read it online back in 2013. They called him the rock. Saying that he was always there when they need him, he was dependable, he was responsible, and he was readily available to console -- to console loved ones. Also, he was a workout buddy as we said of Chris Kyle and as I am looking here at the -- at the feed and they're giving --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On behalf of Chad and I, thank you very much. We enjoyed working with you, and you all made -- you all made our job easy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody else has announcing --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody else is expected to come out to the podium?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, there are no more statements going to be made.

(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, they've all -- they are all leaving so.

(CROSSTALK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're not. They're not.

LEMON: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pleasure working with you, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. Safe travel home and --

LEMON: OK, so what you see is what happen, they sort of getting a behind a scene from the media's point of view, when we're out there covering stories. Someone, an official, looks like a sheriff. A sheriff's deputy saying that that is it for the evening, he thanked the press for working with them, and the only person whose came in front of the cameras to speak was Chad Littlefield's mother. Chad Littlefield of course show along with Chris Kyle. 35-years-old then when it a happened as we were reading and talking about him again, he was Chris Kyle's workout buddy, and what he did for a living, he worked as a logistics manager for Eagle labs, which (ph) sells industrial chemicals in Desoto, Texas. Grew up in Texas, born on February 11, 1977, he died on February 2, 2013. Just a couple of days and graduated high school there in 1995 and then move to the area where he eventually met Chris Kyle. CNN's Ed Lavandera joining us now from the courtroom, Ed that's all we are going to hear, at least officially -- from, you know, at least for people coming out, speaking to the press this evening at that particular location where you are.

LAVANDER: Yes, it sounds like this is it. This kind of gives you a sense of, of everything was set up. The shot that you just saw of where Mrs. Littlefield was speaking, that actually took place in the street, right in front of the courthouse. Throughout this entire process, there's been intense security around the building. In fact the street you see behind me throughout the testimony while the court was in session would be shutdown. And around the back side of the building where you see me, it's an area that has been cordoned off where Eddie Ray Routh was brought every morning into a tent-covered area, so no one could see him coming in and out in the building. Taya Kyle, Chris Kyle's wife was in other family members, escorted by the Texas Ranger Authorities and other law enforcements officials who bring them in and out. It's just the fate with the same thing would be -- you know, happen here again. There was a great deal of concerned leaving up to this trial about the security situation, everything has gone off -- gone off smoothly, less of the relief for law enforcement officials who have been working this case for the last two weeks, even week before that. So, we've -- as you heard there, we do not expect to hear in anything at least on camera tonight from Taya Kyle or any of Chris Kyle's relatives.

LEMON: So, Ed Lavandera broadcast and I'm reading from the information part which you and your producers said, broadcasts of all audio/video from the trial will be allowed after the sentencing, we will start to -- we will be able to see and hear it?

LAVANDERAS: Yes, my understanding we can start, you know, if you've been following our coverage for the last couple of weeks, it's been rather difficult. We've been able to show you the video, but not let you hear, this is by the judge's orders exactly the way Eddie Ray Routh sounded in various videos. The moment he was taken into custody, put in the back of the police car, the nearly 90-minute long confession tape. We can start playing -- I'm just waiting to get a word that we have all that ready and we can start to broadcast that for you, so that you can see for yourselves what this jury has spent so much time looking at. And obviously, didn't agree with as they are returned a guilty verdict very swiftly -- very swiftly here tonight, but there is a great deal of evidence and material to see, and it is material that was never really seen before this trial. You know, Eddie Ray Routh in many ways has been enigma, and this was really the first time we were able to see -- see him, hear from him, see the body language exactly how everything unfolded and obviously, the jury here in Stephenville, Texas believe despite seeing all of that in the case that his attorney's made that he was psychotic and insane at that moment of this murders. That Eddie Ray Routh was guilty of these murders and not guilty by reason of insanity.

LEMON: Ed Lavandera, Taya Kyle, Chris Kyle's widow also testifying at the trial, very emotional for her, lets' listen to this now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYA KYLE, CHRIS KYLE'S WIDOW: Eventually, we found each other in the hallway, you know he just said -- he was inviting, or he asked Chad to come along.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said that Chad had come to the house.

T. KYLE: Chad was at the house. Want to have Chad have an extra set -- just to have an extra set of eyes. And then he, and then said, that he maybe make sure that this guy knows that Chad can be trusted 100 percent so that his comfortable saying whatever he wants to say, so we have no definitely will. And then -- that we loved each other, and gave each other a kiss and a hug like we always did. And then I just -- you know, I left, when I left, he was in the driveway still kind of -- kind to get more stuff in there and -- and get going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, did you talk by phone with Chris sometime that afternoon?

T. KYLE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About what time was that? T. KYLE: I think that it was probably -- I think 2 or 3 maybe, you

know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some time that afternoon?

T. KYLE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And where was he when you called him?

T. KYLE: I believe he was at Rough creek.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The widow of Chris Kyle testifying, very emotional there. Mark Geragos, your heart just can't help but the -- but break for the family. Mark O'Mara, are you with us?

O'MARA: Yes, right here.

LEMON: Yeah, your heart just can't help but break there for the family. And also for the family of Chad Littlefield family, the mother came out just moments ago.

O'MARA: Yeah, well you know, and it's funny, because even though she thanked God for the verdict, unfortunately, victim's families this, this is not the end, you know they don't get what they wanted and now their lives get better. I kept in touch with the victims' families of the murder case that I have been involved in on occasion. You know their struggles their pain goes on forever. Matter of fact, there's a lot of people who go there be satisfied with the verdict. A week for now, a month for now, they're right back to the unbelievable and insatiable loss of having a loved one taken away. So, for Taya and with the Littlefield family, it's years and years and years of the pain that this has caused.

LEMON: How do those kinds of moments in court play to the jury? You think?

BRAFMAN: I think they play very, very compellingly. And I think -- I'm not questioning the verdict, and I don't want his comments to misinterpreted, but this verdict, even if it's that's the correct verdict is the polar opposite of what, a sometime you hope for as a defense lawyer, there's jury nullification, where it is a minor crime and the jury said, you know what? He's guilty but we going to give him a pass. This was a horrific crime and a very, very likable hero was murdered and I think this jury decided very quickly, we're not giving this murderer a pass and we're not buying into this insanity, and that's what you have here.

LEMON: All right, standby everyone. I want to tell our viewers at home. Again, the man accused of killing the American Sniper Chris Kyle and his friend Chad Littlefield, back on February 2, 2013 has been found guilty. And the sentence for him will be life in prison without the possibility of parole. An emotional day for family members who are now beginning to speak out, we'll be right back.

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