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ISIS Demands Ransom for Japanese Hostages; Yemen Descending into Chaos; New England Patriots' Deflate-gate Grows; Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney Meeting in Private; Boehner Inviting Netanyahu to D.C. a Bad Move

Aired January 22, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS is holding two Japanese citizens hostage, demanding a $200 million ransom by tomorrow, or else. While that's going on, Yemen is descending into chaos and could be a country which just sucks up terror organizations and provides training grounds for future terror groups. What does this mean for the United States?

Let's bring in former CIA officer Peter Brookes and CNN military analyst Major General James Spider Marks.

Peter, let me start with you here, these two Japanese men being held, ISIS is demanding $200 million. Japan has not said definitively whether it will pay or not. Some countries do pay ransom for hostages. The United States does not. What are the considerations here?

PETER BROOKES, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Terrible policy dilemma for the Japanese. Obviously, the humanitarian level, they want their citizens back safe and south. On the other side is, they are part of the coalition that is opposing ISIS, and a payment of $200 million would not only help ISIS's operations, it would probably put a very difficult position for the United States, an ally of Japan, as well as create a moral hazard. Unfortunately, the more you give into their demands, the more likely you'll see the same sort of behavior. So very difficult situation for the Japanese right now.

BERMAN: An awful situation for those families involved as well.

Spider, I want to shift to Yemen right now. The situation right there is nothing short of a mess. That country is in shear chaos. One day the president has power over the government. The next day he does not. You have been in places like Afghanistan, which are in one degree or another failed states. What kind of opportunity does that provide to a terror group?

GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: This is ungoverned space. That's exactly what it is. The CIA, as Peter would tell you, that's called denied areas, where it's very difficult to conduct operations and really get a sense of what's going on. So what you have in Yemen we've seen for many years. The challenge we have is you've got is now potentially recruiting out of there. You've got AQAP which has a very strong foothold there. You also have the Houthis. So you have this complete turmoil taking place. In the midst of all that, you have the United States with the very strong presence and the support of the Yemeni government, when it existed, conducting operations against AQAP. That's the dilemma for the United States, is when do you evacuate the embassy while we must acknowledge there are probably on-going operations.

BERMAN: Peter, it's striking that this is all happening in Yemen because over the last few years, Yemen has been pointed to by this administration as something of a success story, where the battle against terror was going well.

BROOKES: I'm not sure I would have agreed with that characterization that the president used last September when he announced air strikes into Syria and Iraq against ISIS. It has been very, very difficult since the Arab Spring which rocked the Saana government. They've had this insurgency in the north, which the general didn't mention. But an important point, these rebels are backed by Iran and also, of course, AQAP, which has a long history going back to the underwear bomber, Anwar Awlaki. Counterterrorism officials will probably tell you AQAP is the most imminent danger to the United States. So major concerns about this. Even their ties into Syria and the Khorasan group and the desire to target Western aviation, Europe and the United States. So a very, very difficult situation.

BERMAN: All right, Peter Brookes, Major General James Marks, thanks very much for being with us. I appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Coming up next, Deflate-gate. The Patriots mega star quarterback, Tom Brady, is due to speak in just a couple hours. Will he say he was shocked and has no explanation just like his coach, Bill Belichick, did shortly ago? We will speak to a former teammate of Tom Brady who is with us.

And it is on. A meeting between Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney. Both men say they're considering running for president. What's that going to be like? Two men will enter. One will leave. We'll talk about the meeting next.

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BERMAN: Bill Belichick gave a news conference and says he has no explanation for how 11 footballs from the New England Patriots football team had too little air in them, now called Deflate-gate. No explanation in the coach. He said he was shocked to learn that the balls did not have air in them. He also said Tom Brady might have a lot to say about how he likes his footballs prepared before the game. It just so happens that Tom Brady will be holding a news conference today at 3:45, we're now told, or 4:00, somewhere in there. CNN will cover it live. Do not miss it. I think it could be very, very interesting.

I want to talk more about these dueling news conferences with a man who played for Bill Belichick and with Tom Brady. I'm joined now by Jermaine Wiggins.

Jermaine, let me ask you flat-out -- I'm a Patriots fan. That's a disclaimer. I also think cheating is bad. Two disclaimers there. There are a lot of people. I have a lot of friends who are not Patriots fans who say the Patriots cheat. Look at Spygate, the culture inside the Patriots organization. I'll ask you flat-out, do the Patriots cheat?

JERMAINE WIGGINS, FORMER NFL TIGHT END: I would say no. Look at what Spygate was. They were filming opposing sidelines and trying to get happened signals, trying to get a competitive edge. Did it work? Probably a little bit. On a scale of one to 10, it probably worked for about one. When they came out with this, there are a lot of other teams that did that. They also videotaped sidelines trying to get the edge. The thing about the Patriots, sometimes they push it to the limit. When you look at these things, I think a lot of people stop to say stuff. When you're king of the mountain and you've been to five Super Bowl appearances and headed to your sixth, you've got a massive bull's eye on your back. That's what the New England Patriots have on them.

BERMAN: Pushing it to the limit is one thing. Pushing it beyond the limit is another. You said Spygate only helped them one on a scale of one to 10. I heard people say in the deflated footballs, in the first half using the deflated footballs, only up 17-0. In the second half when they were using regulation they were up 28-0. Is that a fair argument if cheating didn't help you that much? Cheating is OK as long as it doesn't help?

WIGGINS: I don't think cheating is OK. You have to look at it in the full context. You've got to understand when you're talking about the National Football League, and there are people that do it. There are other teams out there filming the Spygate, plenty of quarterbacks, plenty of teams who deflate the footballs, scuff up the footballs, try to push the envelope and sometimes go past it. When you're the New England Patriots and you're a Patriots fan and people around there always say, why is it they're always coming down on the payouts? Because you have your instances like Spygate. The Patriots got in trouble for that, lost the first round draft pick, and Bill Belichick was fined over $500,000. That's something that never leaves them. Any time there's a situation -- we heard it last week with the Baltimore Ravens when they came out in the formation, what's going on here, what are the Patriots doing? To me, I think when you look at these things, there are a lot of teams that do things in the National Football League, but people don't know about it. As soon as the Patriots do it, everybody wants to know about it. Everybody says they're cheating, especially in this case of Deflate-gate. It has nothing to do with the football game. It does not affect it. The issue is from 2:15. Before the game, they weigh the footballs. At that point in time, there's a window they can't do anything to the footballs, can't manipulate them in any way. That's where they're trying to figure out where did they lose air, how did they lose air, was it something the Patriots did?

BERMAN: Maybe they lost the air on their own, maybe they did. If they did, I would be thrilled because it means the Patriots didn't break the rules. If someone took air out of the footballs, it means someone did break the rules. If every team is pushing the envelope, it means the Patriots cheated. I don't see any way around that if that is what happened.

Let me play you another sound bite. Bill Belichick says he has no explanation for how the balls weren't inflated as much as they were supposed to be. Not only that, he basically said he doesn't know anything about air pressure in footballs to begin with. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BELICHICK, COACH, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: In my entire coaching career I have never talked to any player, staff member about football air pressure. That is not a subject that I have ever brought up. To me, the footballs are approved by the league and game officials pregame, and we play with what's out there. That's the only way that I have ever thought about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Never discussed it. Never, ever discussed it. Do you buy that, Jermaine?

WIGGINS: He never talked to me about air pressure in footballs. Never brought it up in the meetings I've been in. I've never been around him and heard him talk about air pressure. I played with Tom Brady. I never heard him talk about air pressure. I know there are a lot of quarterbacks in the National Football League as well as kickers that like their balls a certain way. They get the balls as soon as they come out of the box. They're real slick. They try to scuff them up. Every quarterback has something they do. There's plenty of stories out there. And we've seen Brad Johnson, a former teammate of mine, who came out and say he bribed somebody to give them the football so he could get them to feel better in his hand. I've had many conversations with Belichick as a player and we've never talked about air pressure in the footballs.

BERMAN: I never have either before this week. I suppose it's possible. Then again, I'm not a football coach.

Jermaine Wiggins, thanks for being with us.

(CROSSTALK)

WIGGINS: John, can I say one thing before we go?

BERMAN: Yes.

WIGGINS: It's simple around here. We've got a saying around here in New England. We did a little song on our radio show this morning, a parody about Deflate-gate. There's a saying for New England Patriots fans, "They hate us because they ain't us."

BERMAN: Now I'm hated by non-Patriots fans and Patriots fans alike because I suggested they might have cheated.

(LAUGHTER)

Jermaine Wiggins, thanks for being with us.

WIGGINS: Not a problem.

BERMAN: And thank you for catching that pass in that 2001 season. It made a difference in my life. Appreciate it.

(CROSSTALK)

WIGGINS: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Patriots quarterback Tom Brady will have a news conference today, sometime between 3:45 and 4:00 p.m. Do not miss it. His words very important here. Did he know about the air pressure in the footballs, did he have something to do with it. Watch it on TV, on your smart phone, on your desk top. Watch it everywhere at once. Just make sure you watch it.

Now, there is big news in the world of politics today. A big meeting happening today in Utah. Two men, who we think want to be president, are having a meeting, a private meeting. I'm talking about Jeb Bush, the former governor of Florida, and Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, who has run for president a couple times, you might remember. So what on earth are they going to talk about?

I'm joined by the Reihan Salam, who comes from the right side of the aisle, shall we say, and his fellow political commentator, Sally Kohn.

Sally, thanks for being with us.

Reihan, you as well.

Reihan, I suppose it was Jeb Bush who asked for the meeting. I'll put this in his shoes. If you are Jeb Bush and you walk into a meeting with Mitt Romney and you know Mitt Romney wants to be president and you know you want to be president, what do you say to him?

REIHAN SALAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You say, look, you and I care about the same things, pretty much. We represent the same wing of the party. If you get in, you're going to squeeze me out and some whack a do is going to win. I'd love to see them both go at it so other candidate can come in down the middle. I would love to see them blow enormous amounts of money from their donor friends and bash each other all day long. Sadly, they're smart enough to realize that would be bad for both of them.

BERMAN: What does Mitt say to Jeb? Same thing in reverse?

SALAM: That's a tricky question. The question is one of them might be a bit more on the fence. The one who is really committed is going to say I'm going to make this very expensive. I'm in this period. I'm dead serious. The question is which one is more like that.

BERMAN: Sally Kohn, where does this rank? SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Really, really awkward. I

think two things are interesting here. One is, rich Jeb Bush, and especially rich Mitt Romney might even consider running. They're starting to make suggestive populist overtures. Mitt Romney recently said he would make his campaign all about fighting against poverty as opposed to attacking the 47 percent. He recently said he thinks climate change is an issue again when he said before he didn't. I kind of agree are Reihan for a different reason. I'd like to see them both get in. One should be a decoy for the other. I don't know anything about duck hunting, but I'm going to make like a right wing, religious metaphor, we'll go with "Duck Dynasty." In "Duck Dynasty" you have a decoy, so everybody would, on the far right of the party would attack the decoy and maybe you'd have a moderate Republican who has a shot of escaping unscathed. The chances of that actually happening in this primary are nil.

BERMAN: From a Democratic perspective, which candidate you fear more, Jeb Bush or Mitt Romney?

KOHN: Again, this becomes which candidate is actually going to run. Mitt Romney, circa 2008, no. I don't worry that much at all. But now, as he's -- I'm sorry -- circa 2012. As he's refashioning himself, he's going to rebrand himself to be more populist. He'll talk about climate change. He now says he supports raising the minimum wage.

(CROSSTALK)

SALAM: He's been saying that for about a decade.

KOHN: But that was not the platform he ran on.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Reihan, can I shift gears to Capitol Hill politics. House Speaker John Boehner invited Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to speak before Congress about Iran. Do you think this is a good move politically?

SALAM: The Israeli prime minister spent much of his early life in America, very close to Republican politicians. He's been engaged with these American questions. The Iran issue is the central security issue we face right now. He has a unique perspective to bring to bear. Politically, I couldn't say. Does it make sense for the Israeli prime minister to address lawmakers of both parties? Absolutely. On those grounds, I think it's very sensible to do.

KOHN: No. It's so reckless. Can you imagine if Democrats did this, how they would be attacked by Republicans for their irresponsibility?

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: David Cameron, the prime minister of the U.K., is making calls on Iran to members of Congress. Is that that different? I suppose it's only different if you're speaking live in front of people or talking -- (CROSSTALK)

KOHN: As a simple matter, going around the White House to invite a head of state, as the Republican Party, to invite a head of state to Congress, and literally the White House didn't find out about it until after it was announced, not engaging in proper diplomacy, so cutting the White House out of the process? Again, if the Democrats did that, the Republicans would go apoplexy.

BERMAN: Sally Kohn, Reihan Salam, I have to cut it off there. Thank you very much for being with us. I want to talk more about the mitt- Jeb meeting happening today in a future moment. Thank you.

Coming up, we're changing subjects here. Are robots going to take over the world? We'll have the definitive answer when Morgan Spurlock shows us the most human-like robots, even the most fun ones. Are the most human ones the most fun? That's a conundrum. Coming up next.

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BERMAN: All right. An unprecedented moment at the 11:00 a.m. hour. I am joined by Morgan Spurlock, host of "INSIDE MAN," which premiers tonight. This is the robot, this is Morgan Spurlock.

MORGAN SPURLOCK, CNN HOST, INSIDE MAN: Almost as cool as a robot.

BERMAN: Why is he here?

SPURLOCK: Tonight's show is all about robots and robotics. I wanted to bring a robot along. This is Mechanoid, a robot I met at CES last week. What's cool about this, it is a great entry level robot for kids to understand how robots work and what they're all about.

BERMAN: Mechanoid is the coolest name.

SPURLOCK: He's the greatest robot ever. Say hello.

ROBOT: Up next on CNN, me.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: All right. That guy's stealing my thunder right there.

When you talk about, you explore this subject of robots and AI right now, how expansive of a subject is that? We're not talking about R2D2.

SPURLOCK: It's everywhere. It's starting to infiltrate every piece of our lives. What we need to understand is that robots like this are going to become a part of the future soon enough. Self-driving cars. Artificial intelligence that helps our homework better. This is all something we seem to be ready for.

BERMAN: I'm not personally scared of the idea of computers or robots taking over the universe. But there are plenty of people who are.

SPURLOCK: I saw "The Terminator," it does not end well.

BERMAN: Not at all. What are the threatening areas?

SPURLOCK: What is going to be the use of this type of technology? Whenever someone makes a piece of technology for you and I who benefit from, there's someone who will also want to use it for military purposes, potentially terrorist purposes, who knows. I think those are the scary possibilities of what could come out of a robotic revolution.

BERMAN: I think the most scary thing in your show was when you met these robots who are sort of human-like.

SPURLOCK: The ones that look like human beings. When they start to talk, they feel like a Stepford wife. Those are the types of robots -- this is a good example. This is kind of an autoniod. The idea was how simple could you make a robot.

BERMAN: But what's the point of a robot like that versus Mechanoid here?

SPURLOCK: It's two different purposes. A robot like this is to start getting people comfortable.

BERMAN: That's a robot.

SPURLOCK: And that is a robot. These types of humanoid robots are designed to --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Scary. They're just designed to scare you. There's no practical purpose for that, is there?

SPURLOCK: What will happen is one day you'll walk into some sort of a venue, whether it could be a fast-food restaurant or a bank, and the teller could be a robot like that who will basically do your business with you standing inside of a place of business. Something like this is going to be designed to start to get people to understand the mechanics, getting somebody into the advancement of robotics.

BERMAN: What is the current status of AI? When will they get to a point that they can think for themselves and formulate their own notions?

SPURLOCK: In about 10 years -- they're already to the point where they can quote, unquote, "think." It's a programmed think. If you go on my website, morganspurlock.com, there is a Morganbot. You'll have a conversation with a bot that is me.

BERMAN: He's easier to book than you are, I'm sure.

SPURLOCK: But it won't be long. It will be within the next 10 years.

BERMAN: Awesome.

Again, the new season or Morgan Spurlock, "INSIDE MAN." premiers tonight at 9:00 eastern.

Morgan, Mechanoid, I appreciate you both for being with us.

SPURLOCK: Good to see you.

BERMAN: That's it for us today.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right after this.

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