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CNN NEWSROOM

Massacre in Nigeria; Investigating French Terrorists

Aired January 14, 2015 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Two huge developments to get to right now out of the French capital. First, we're about to show you some pretty disturbing pictures. But this is what really tells the story here. This is our first glimpse of the terror that unfolded during last week's hostage standoff inside of that Paris kosher market.

So, you will see these pictures. These is surveillance video. These are stills. And this is the attacker here in some of these pictures, Amedy Coulibaly, with what appears to be a handgun, wearing fatigues, a bulletproof vest. Other images show terrified employees taking down security cameras, then huddling together there in the back of the store.

There are also in some of these still frames corpses, the four people killed by Coulibaly scattered across this grocery store floor. You also see a baby stroller sitting there abandoned in the aisle of the market, all of this unfolding hours before Coulibaly was killed by police, and all of this happening in the French capital just north of Paris.

The Kouachi brothers had their own siege going on, totally separate. They were on the run after the slaughter at the offices of "Charlie Hebdo" Wednesday morning. Well, it's now believed that bloody attack may have been orchestrated by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, AQAP.

This video claiming that the mastermind was none other than Anwar al- Awlaki, the U.S.-born Muslim cleric killed in a U.S. drone strike in Yemen more than three years ago.

Joining me now, Robert McFadden, a former special agent in charge NCIS and senior vice president at the Soufan Group.

Bob, welcome back.

ROBERT MCFADDEN, THE SOUFAN GROUP: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I have a lot of questions for you on AQAP. But let's just begin with some of those stills that we showed from that kosher deli and Coulibaly, this hostage taker who was but ultimately killed. When you see how he was apparently dressed, the fatigues, the bulletproof vest, what does that tell you about his tactics?

MCFADDEN: Yes. Well, first, it really brings home again how chilling and how terror-

filled that event was. Heart goes out to the four victims, their family, and as well as the bravery of at least one of the hostages that attempted to take the weapon and turn it on Coulibaly.

But, unfortunately, the report was it jammed and he was shot point- blank in cold blood. It just goes to show you in a case like this, OK, a couple things jump out, one, how ruthless the attack is of something like this, how committed the individual was and it also -- this is a form of a suicide operation.

There's really no reasonable exit plan or way that the attacker is going to get out. You could say the same thing with the two brothers too. They're only astute as far as actually carrying out the event to make sure the event happens, but as far as what happens after there, it's very much ad hoc. In this case, I don't think he thought he was going to get out of there alive.

BALDWIN: Let's shift to the Coulibaly -- brothers and this new video and now AQAP officially claiming responsibility for the "Charlie Hebdo" attack or inspiring it. Took them a week to do it. Does that seem like a long time for you or is that par for the course?

MCFADDEN: No, not necessarily.

Sometimes, groups like back in the day al Qaeda core would never actually take official, say, responsibility or role in an act. There's circumstances in between that really dictate when the claim for responsibility is...

BALDWIN: What are they determining in that week? What are they going through?

MCFADDEN: They're probably -- their media production wing of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula...

BALDWIN: Media production wing.

MCFADDEN: Right, trying to -- just like Sahab productions of al Qaeda. Al Qaeda in Yemen has its own wing.

But let's keep in mind though too in the context of Yemen, al Qaeda in Yemen is under a three-pronged assault in a big way. A C.T. force is still viable from the Yemen government. The Houthis, Ansar al-Sharia brigades fighting against them, that was inevitable, and U.S. covert actions, mainly in drones.

So, you have those other kinds of things. But about the AQAP claim, OK, we had the two brothers saying at least twice that it was doing the operation on behalf and controlled or directed by AQAP. We have al Qaeda now in the official -- one of the spokesman, who, by the way, is truly old guard al Qaeda.

BALDWIN: I wanted to ask who this man is in the video.

(CROSSTALK) MCFADDEN: Real quick, Nasser bin Ali al-Ansi, he was part of a very quick story going back to mid-1990s.

A small group of Yemenis and Saudis had actually formed back in the Arabian Peninsula and then went over to Afghanistan in order to get to the battlefront in Tajikistan, but actually because there was a political settlement with Tajikistan, they had really nowhere to go for a jihad front.

So, a group, including him, actually met with bin Laden in Jalalabad and became part of its seminal al Qaeda movement in the mid-1990s.

BALDWIN: Got it.

MCFADDEN: But then we jump forward here. He's on the videotape as one of the official spokesmen.

You have AQAP making that claim. You say, OK, we take it at face value that it was an AQAP operation. But really it doesn't matter whether it's direct control, indirect control, inspiration. It accomplished its goal in getting itself out there, showing its viability, that it still exists and that it is still in business, whether there was the direct control or not.

BALDWIN: And also interesting, I thought the delineation he makes, the word coincidence, when he refers to the Coulibaly kosher attack, because he had apparently aligned himself with ISIS and he says that was coincidence. Bob McFadden, thank you very much. Come back any time.

MCFADDEN: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: The man who once mentored one of the French terrorists is now condemning this massacre his former student committed.

Farid Benyettou is now out of prison after a terrorism conviction. He recently talked to French television. According to this documentary by France 3 network, Benyettou is this radical cleric who turned the younger of these two brothers, Cherif Kouachi, once a pot-smoking wanna-be rapper, into this extremist die-hard.

Kouachi was one a group of Benyettou's followers from that 19th District of Paris where they all got together in that Parisian park. But today Benyettou says he is reformed. What is more, he revealed that he spoke with Cherif Kouachi just two months ago and that it was very clear to him that Kouachi had become increasingly radicalized.

Let me quote this mentor, and this is what he said to French TV. "With him, he always came back on the same subject. Anything to do with combat, he was fascinated by that. His understanding of the religion was limited to that, nothing else."

Frederik Pleitgen is live in Paris with more on this angle.

And I'm curious what the reaction has been to this interview, because really when you start reading into it, it seem this Benyettou character is really defending himself now, while revealing much, much more about this Kouachi brother.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he certainly is.

And the reactions are really a mixed bag, Brooke. On the one hand, you have a lot of people who are quite angry. But you also have a lot of people who are a little bit fearful as well. They're angry because one of the things they say is they say, all right, you talked to Kouachi just two months ago and at the same time you say you have reformed yourself and you're not a radical anymore. Why on earth didn't you go to the police and tell them that Kouachi was become radicalized and all that Kouachi was talking about was violence?

BALDWIN: Right.

PLEITGEN: That's certainly something, a point that many people are raising.

Second of all, he says that he's cooperating with authorities now. Why didn't he cooperate with authorities at that point? Did he have any sort of knowledge, not only that Kouachi was talking about possibly conducting attacks, that he was talking about violence, but did he maybe have any sort of knowledge that Kouachi might be acquiring weapons?

Because we know that they were building this stash of weapons over time. What sort of knowledge did he have of that? Then of course there are the people who are quite fearful because one of the twists of fate in all of this is that Farid Benyettou was a nursing trainee at a hospital where a lot of the people who were wounded in these attacks were brought to.

That's something that caused a lot of fear among the population here. And now what is going on is that apparently he's taken off the rotations at the hospital. He's been sacked from that hospital. Have, it appears as though he might still be able to get his diploma as a nursing trainee to become a nurse at some point.

But, certainly, it's causing a lot of reactions here and certainly a lot of disbelief among the many people who have watched that interview.

BALDWIN: To think you're one of the survivors of the attacks and to be treated in that hospital. Wow. Frederik Pleitgen, thank you so much. Incredible reporting for us this entire week out of Paris. I appreciate you.

Next, the temptation of a female jihadist. We talked about this, but now CNN has spoken with this French woman who tells Arwa Damon she will join the extremists. Why? She will explain in her own words coming up.

And as many as 2,000 people are dead in this massacre by Boko Haram in Nigeria. Now its leader is apparently weighing in and reacting to what happened in Paris.

And I will speak live with a Medal of Honor recipient, one of America's most decorated Marines, who has his own message for ISIS. Do not miss that conversation. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And in this CNN exclusive, this French woman explains why she wept in sympathy for the three dead terrorists in Paris, but she didn't shed a single tear for the 17 victims.

Now this woman says she wants to move to Syria. She wants to join ISIS.

CNN senior international correspondent Arwa Damon sat down with this woman for a one-on-one interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The way she's dressed right now in skinny jeans, hair flowing is, for her, a costume. Indira, not her real name, asks that we conceal her identity and her voice. Her Twitter profile picture is of two Moroccan women with ISIS. Pulled from an article she read, one of the small fragments that mold her current state of mind.

"They are brave, I don't have this courage," she says, pointing to her other Twitter photographs. It's a screen grab of armed women who pledged allegiance to ISIS. If it was up to her, she would also wear niqab, banned in France.

"I don't want to be judged if I walked outside in niqab. I don't want people to turn around and look at me. I want to be where I'm not going to shock anyone." And shock not just with what she wears, but with what she says. Indira believes the slaughter of "Charlie Hebdo" cartoonists is justified, though not that of the others who were killed.

"I prefer to think that they are people that -- yes, they wanted to avenge the prophet, but then they took it too far." She also posted a video of Amedy Coulibaly, the third gunman as he is killed by police in the hail of bullets.

"I can't really tell you why I cried for them so much. I was so angry that they were dead. Why? Why kill them? Indira's path to extremism was forged slowly. She used to drink, smoke, she even has a tattoo.

For people that share Indira's hard-line religious views, it's not just about whether or not women can legally wear the niqab here. The ongoing public debate in France about national identity has left them feeling rejected by France and closer to the religious lifestyle promise of the so-called Caliphate.

Indira plans on leaving the comforts and modernity of life in Paris behind. France, she says, is for the French. She feels her place is here, ISIS territory in Syria. She looks forward to the hardship, lack of amenities, and life among those who she believes are like- minded, immersed in religion. She shows us recent messages exchanged with "a brother". He writes, it's his back up account in case his main is shut down, and "we can talk here in private."

"If my fiance doesn't want to come with me, I love my God more than I love him. I will leave him. He's not the one who is going to open the gates of paradise for me."

Arwa Damon, CNN Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Arwa Damon, thank you.

Next: Another group is praising these attacks in Paris, Boko Haram. But how much does it really have in common with groups like ISIS and al Qaeda? More on that.

Plus, a Medal of Honor recipient has a provocative message for ISIS. You want to target someone, target me. We will talk to him coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We have to talk about what is happening in Nigeria. The terror group there Boko Haram's recent attacks, they're being compared with that of ISIS. Some political experts say the group's efforts to seize land and secure strongholds is eerily similar to the so-called Islamic State.

And, today, Boko Haram released a video that purportedly shows this leader shown praising the terror attacks in France.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were truly happy. We truly rejoiced at what happened inside France.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Rejoiced, he says.

Elizabeth Donnelly is live in London with me with the Africa Program at Chatham House. She focuses on West Africa and Nigerian politics.

Elizabeth, welcome.

ELIZABETH DONNELLY, CHATHAM HOUSE: Hello. Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much for coming on.

A lot of experts are making these comparisons, right, between Boko Haram and ISIS. You have this extremist ideology, the sophistication, this massive land grab, noting that Boko Haram has actually claimed about twice as much territory as ISIS has both in Iraq and Syria. But you say be cautious, be cautious when it comes to these comparisons. Why is that?

DONNELLY: Well it's really important if you're thinking about how to deal with this, if you're thinking about the policy response. Now, of course, I think with a set of violent extremist groups, you

can find commonality, you can find commonality in cause, in activity, and perhaps in symbols used and so on, and also in messaging. But the important thing to remember is actually where they came from, the local context, and the grievances, and actually the fact that Boko Haram, for example, it is very unique to its context.

Even looking at where it operates, where it is operating right now, it does so in an area that it knows, that it understands. It speaks the language. It knows the terrain. These kinds of considerations are very important. No doubt these groups will reference each other.

They kind of speak in similar language in that way. But, ultimately, the important question is, well, what does it mean? I think there's a temptation to potentially read too much into similarity. And it's really the question about, well, what is it that we need to focus on here?

BALDWIN: One focus for me is just looking at the children. Both of these terror groups use children to carry out these attacks, which is awful. Why? Why do this? Why use kids as weapons?

DONNELLY: I think, for Boko Haram, it would seem that actually these are expendable resources for them.

Boko Haram, in its targeting of civilians, of all religions, men, women, children, unless you're an ideologue, a core member, loyalist to Boko Haram, then you do not count at all. So, in a way that others view this, as an atrocity, an outrage for Boko Haram, this is something that they can do, something that they do not hesitate about.

And it just goes to show actually how extreme this movement has become since it was founded. We're seeing it push the boundaries further and further.

BALDWIN: That's the thing with this most recent -- we talked so much about those Nigerian schoolgirls. But here you have Amnesty International calling this latest massacre, some 2,000 people, the deadliest attack from Boko Haram.

How have they managed to so totally strengthen in recent months, especially as we have been hearing about this potential cease-fire? Obviously, that went nowhere back in October.

DONNELLY: That's right.

And certainly, in October, the situation, it was not at a stage that I think was right for -- actually for any kind of negotiated cease-fire. Boko Haram has over time been capturing weapons from the military in the northeast. It has taken advantage of the soft targets it has attacked.

It is using communities. It's using the resources of local communities as well. But this is also about the clear overstretch of the 7th Division, which is the military deployed to respond to Boko Haram in the northeast. Clearly, they're struggling with the insurgency.

There are really important questions that need to be answered about why that is. Nigeria's military is about 130,000-strong. You have got roughly perhaps between 8,500 and 12,000 troops operating in the northeast.

Now, there are lots of allegations about why these problems with the military offensive might happen. These include corruption, misallocation of resources, mismanagement, poor leadership, and low morale. There's a whole list of reasons why this might be.

But the fact of the matter is that this needs to be led by the Nigerian government, it needs to be led from the center. There needs to be a more effective response to halt Boko Haram's advance.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: That's the thing. It needs to be. Not happening. Let's continue to shed this spotlight on what's happening in Nigeria.

Elizabeth Donnelly, thank you very much for coming on from London.

DONNELLY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, a Medal of Honor recipient joins me live with his take on this new threat by ISIS against the military. He calls them cowards. And he says, go ahead, target me. Don't miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just about the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And this new chilling video from ISIS involves no beheadings, but it is just as disturbing, so much so we will not show it. The clip seems to show a very young boy killing not one, but two people with this pistol. And all of this comes as just as the Muslim mother of an American teenager makes a plea to the terror group. Her 19-year-old son just pleaded not guilty to charges he tried to join ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZARINE KHAN, MOTHER OF DEFENDANT: We condemn this violence in the strongest possible terms. We condemn the brutal tactics of ISIS and groups like it.

And we condemn the brainwashing and recruiting of children through the use of social media and the Internet. And we have a message for ISIS, Mr. Baghdadi and his fellow social media recruiters. Leave our children alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "Leave our children alone."

And that mother is not the only one telling ISIS what to do. One of the most respected Marines in this country is challenging these terrorists as well. Dakota Meyer received a Medal of Honor in 2011 for his bravery in Afghanistan. He helped save 13 Marines and 23 Afghan soldiers.