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DR. DREW
Horrific Family Secrets Exposed; Sisters Charged With Murdering Their Own Brother Have A Shocking Story; DUI Viral Video Outrage; A Step By Step Guide To Getting Through A Drunk Driving Checkpoint; The Trust Fund Son Accused Of Killing His Millionaire Father
Aired January 8, 2015 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDETAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, horrific family secrets exposed. Sisters charged with murdering their own brother have a
shocking story. How can this happen?
Plus, DUI viral video outrage over this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I have (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): A step by step guide to getting through a drunk driving checkpoint. Let us get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. My co-host is Samantha Schacher here with me this evening. Two young Florida sisters locked up tonight
after police say the older girl, who was just 15, premeditated, shot, killed her 16-year-old brother. Court documents reveal, guess what?
Sexual abuse, dysfunction, all sorts of nonsense going on in the family.
Joining in to discuss Mark Eiglarsh from Speaktomark.com, Ashlan Gorse Cousteau, journalist and activist; Spirit, psychotherapist. And,
Sam, you are going to give us these new details about the killings.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: Horrifying details, Dr. Drew. So, on Monday when the parents left the house, they, quote, "Told the 16-year-old
son to lock the 15-year-old sister, their daughter, in her room."
PINSKY: All right. Sam, I got a million questions for you. Let us slow this down. They went -- where did they go?
SCHACHER: OK. So, he is a truck driver, remember? He is a long- distance truck driver. He went to work. She is unemployed.
PINSKY: So, she what?
SCHACHER: She goes with him.
PINSKY: She goes with him --
SCHACHER: Leaves the kids --
PINSKY: -- and leaves three kids behind?
SCHACHER: Yes. Exactly.
PINSKY: And, so, she leaves a 16-year-old behind with an 11-year-old and a 3-year-old? Is that right?
SCHACHER: And, then the 15-year-old, who was locked up on punishment. And, if you recall, Dr. Drew, the police found a bucket full
of urine in her room and just a blanket. That is how they would punish her. In fact, they admitted to the detectives, "This is how we would
punish her when she would steal or talk back."
And, they said that one time they left her in her room, locked up for 20 consecutive days, Dr. Drew. Also, according to the police report, her
two younger sisters, the 11-year-old and the 3-year-old she told them to go in a closet and hide while she shot her brother.
She told the police that she shot him in the neck as her brother screamed, quote, "Help, help." And, also one more really horrifying
detail, Dr. Drew. Her uncle, in 2010 was convicted of sexually molesting her and videotaping it.
PINSKY: All right. So, Spirit, we have just a meltdown in the household here. We have got really bizarre disciplining behaviors that are
just horribly abusive and neglectful.
We have abandonment of young children. We have leaving older children in charge of younger children. And, we have a child who was
sexually abused and snapped evidently and became a murderer.
SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Clearly.
PINSKY: Who is to blame for all this?
CLANTON: You know what? This is the parents and the system here, because I have heard a whole lot about this, Dr. Drew. They had defects in
the house at one point after she was molested by the -- by the --
PINSKY: Uncle.
CLANTON: -- by the uncle, who was then later convicted.
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: So you have a child who probably has PTSD --
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: -- who looked at this and said, you know what? -- And had tried to kill herself on several occasions. So, what she decided was, "I
am no longer going to be a victim." So, when you talk about who should be responsible here, the parents are going to have a very, very heavy burden
in all of this.
PINSKY: Ashlan, do you agree with that?
ASHLAN GORSE COUSTEAU, JOURNALIST AND ADVOCATE: I have to think one thing that we left out is that in 2011, it was actually found out that the
brother and the sister, the 15-year-old and the 16-year-old, actually had - -
SCAHCHER: Sex.
COUSTEAU: -- sexual relation. So, the parents --
PINSKY: OK. So, slow -- Whoa! Whoa! Hold on. I do not want people to miss these details --
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Because this is what is disgusting and grotesque about this case and helps us -- well, puts us in a conundrum, frankly, Ashland.
Because here now we got this poor girl who is abused, left at home with a bucket to urinate in. She was sexually abused by the uncle. There is
incest by the part of the brother. And, there is also kinds of neglect, violence and now this child snaps.
COUSTEAU: Yes. I mean, to me the only person that is to blame, I completely agree with Spirit, is the parents, and the uncle. I think --
The worst thing you can do to a child is to hurt them.
And, obviously, this 15-year-old and possibly the other children were severely damaged growing up. And, of course, it would be normal -- not
normal but, of course, she would resort to something like this.
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: I mean it is just horrible what she did, but she snapped.
PINSKY: It is a situation, Mark, where this child is trying to survive in hell. And, so, Mark, you know, there is plenty of blame to go
around in that family with the mom leaving the dad, who knows what his participation was. The uncle is horrible. I mean, the brother too --
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: -- I mean in a weird way --
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, you are right, because she did tell police that he would beat her.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: She do not want to have sex with him. He pressured her to have sex.
PINSKY: So, with that kind of a meltdown, Mark, in the household -- this was in Florida too, was not it, Sam?
SCHACHER: I believe it was in Florida.
PINSKY: Fantastic. Mark, did I make it up? It is magically we are always talking about Florida, Mark. I do not know.
(LAUGHING)
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But, sense the judgment. I see the judgment in your eyes.
CLANTON: Then that is why the law is down there.
PINSKY: But let me do put some judging into this. Is there something wrong with the system down there? I mean a lot of stuff going
on. Is the system just breaking down or overburdened? I mean why did not somebody get these kids out of that house?
EIGLARSH: OK. Several questions. The Florida one, no, this could happen anywhere. It is a classic recipe that applies anywhere in the
world. You have a molesting uncle. You throw in parents who torture. You throw in incest, and you will get a victim who snaps and commits murder.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: That happens anywhere, Drew.
PINSKY: But Mark, first of all, thank you for inventing a new word, molestating. But, the fact that it did happen there --
(LAUGHING)
EIGLARSH: I wrote that.
PINSKY: -- and that the system had been evaluating this household but did not do anything about it, it is pretty outrageous, do not you think? I
mean why do -- you know what I am saying? I mean I feel bad for social workers, but it is outrageous.
EIGLARSH: I think we are all saying the same thing, but I am going to say something that is controversial. Everyone has ignored one thing, the
analysis of who is to blame and this comes from the defense lawyer, starts with, unless we are being intellectually dishonest, the girl who pulled the
trigger.
CLANTON: No way!
EIGLARSH: That is where we start.
CLANTON: No way!
EIGLARSH: Legally, that is where we start.
CLANTON: No way!
EIGLARSH: No way?
CLANTON: No way.
EIGLARSH: Check the statute. That is where it start. Then --
CLANTON: No way because she is the victim here. No way. Shame on you. Shame on you.
EIGLARSH: Hold on one second. The girl pulled the trigger. We start there. And, then we look at the possible defenses. That is what happens,
OK?
SCHACHER: So, Mark, would they --
EIGLARSH: Do you dispute?
SCHACHER: No, no. Wait.
EIGLARSH: So, do not arrest her. Let us arrest everybody else. Let her go on unaware. What did you say?
SCHACHER: But, would they show leniency towards her, Mark --
EIGLARSH: Well, of course.
SCHACHER: -- once they find out that she was being abused by all these people, and then --
EIGLARSH: Yes, yes.
SCHACHER: So, does it look like that she may not get locked up.
EIGLARSH: Listen to me. Listen to me.
PINSKY: Listen to him.
EIGLARSH: If somehow there was self -- if there was self-defense or if somehow she was so beaten down and abused that she did not know right
from wrong, that is a defense. But if her life was not in imminent danger, if it was not rising to the level that she did not know right from wrong,
then she is held responsible.
PINSKY: OK. All right.
EIGLARSH: All these other stuff mitigate --
PINSKY: Listen. Speaking of that defense, I have a new interview from a grandparent, a grandfather. He disputes the reporting we have heard
about the 15-year-old being locked in her room. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: The reason the locks were there is because (EXPLECITIVE WORD) is a very private person. She has her stuff and her
things, with all her friend`s stuff. And, she did not want any other kids interacts -- just be nosey and she did not allow anybody to go in her
personal stuff and go in that room. So therefore, the lock. She locked the door to keep other people out of her stuff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Ashlan, I see you straining to understand this gentleman as I was. Did you get that?
COUSTEAU: I think he was saying that the girl liked to lock herself in the room to keep people out of her room, is that what the grandfather
said?
PINSKY: That is what he was claiming. That is what I heard.
SCHACHER: Did he forgetting that the parents admitted
(CROSSTALK)
COUSTEAU: OK. I mean, look, I was a 16 -- I was a 15-year-old girl at point. I liked to lock myself in my room when I want my own space, but
this is completely different.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: For 20 days straight? Hold on, hold on.
COUSTEAU: No. Never for 20 days straight.
CLANTON: But, there is no child, no rational minded person that is going to want to lock themselves in their room to the point where they do
not even come out to use the bathroom.
PINSKY: That is right. However --
SCHACHER: That is crazy.
COUSTEAU: I lock in for my an hour.
CLANTON: Yes.
PINSKY: Well, let me propose -- Let me interpret it differently. This woman was locking herself in there to stay away from the crazy family
to try to protect herself. Maybe she did do it for 20 days. Maybe she did was afraid to go out and go to the bathroom because of her abusive brother
was out there. That is a possibility; but grandpa, I am not so sure.
EIGLARSH: Objection.
PINSKY: Objection your honor, what? Objection counselor what?
EIGLARSH: Assumes facts not in evidence. You are making up a story. I think they tortured their daughter. She lied, so let us put her in
solitary confinement.
(CROSSTALKS)
PINSKY: It is either horrible -- which is more horrible.
CLANTON: That mother knew that that young man was sexually assaulting his sister. She knew that. She walked in on them having sex. The
daughter told her that she did not want to have sex and then she goes off, over the road with her husband, and leaves the boy in the care of those
children. What are we talking about here?
PINSKY: Spirit, that is what we are talking about. You just added the score up very nicely for me. I am going to leave it like that and
bring in the behavior bureau. We are going to see what they think.
And later, the trust fund son accused of killing his millionaire father. Were there warning signs missed? No doubt. Back after this.
COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The investigation into Monday shooting death of 16-year-old Damien Kornegay will not be easy. Multiple factors
could have led as 15-year-old sister to pull the trigger. The exact motive for the shooting is unknown. But, these police reports tells some of the
story.
In 2010, this man, Kevin Kornegay, was arrested and convicted for sexual battery after his wife found videos between him and one of the
girls. Seven months later, police say there was an incident between the 15-year-old and her brother. In this heavily reductive report, we learned
Misty Kornegay found two people having sex in the bedroom. DCF investigated that case, but it was closed because they say no criminal act
occurred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Nothing criminal?
SCHACHER: Oh my God.
PINSKY: How is that possible? Let us bring back Sam. I am here with Sam, of course. Let us bring in our behavior bureau. Danine Manette,
criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal." Spirit back with us. Emily Roberts, psychotherapist.
New developments in the case of the teen girl, who has been charged with killing her older brother. The two reportedly engaged in sexual
intercourse in 2011. And, the year before, an uncle had abused the girl as we reported in the previously block. Sam, what do mean, no crime is
occurred? I do not understand.
SCHACHER: Well, yes, just as you heard, Dr. Drew. So, yes, with the uncle, he was convicted but as far as the brother, no. They deemed no
crime had occurred.
PINSKY: Emily, do you want to help me with this? What are they talking about, no crime is occurred?
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Crime occurred. I do not know what they are talking at about all.
PINSKY: OK.
ROBERTS: I mean that is a significant crime. That child should have been removed from the home. Absolutely.
PINSKY: That is my sense. And, so, my question, Emily, to you is --
ROBERTS: Yes.
PINSKY: -- I am going to ask you a question that we devised that I thought was completely unfair but kind of amusing. How would you devise a
treatment plan for a family like this? How? What would you do? Is it a lost cause? Is there something to be done? Or is it just a meltdown?
ROBERTS: There is so much dysfunction going on here, I do not know that these people would be a good fit for therapy as a group. But,
individually, I think that these two girls, even after this incident, can be rehabilitated, absolutely.
PINSKY: OK, you do. All right. That is --
ROBERTS: I think that the brother -- I do.
PINSKY: Well, the brother is gone. He is not with us.
ROBERTS: Yes. If this was while back , he should have been sent away so long ago.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBERTS: This should not had happened.
PINSKY: That is exactly right. Danine, how about you? Do you have any sense of what should happen with these folks?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: There is so much going on here. It is outrageous. And, the thing is that I keep hearing a lot of
people talking about the mother and the mother having left the kids. There were two parents here and they both got on the road. And the father, his
own brother is the person that molested his daughter.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: For years.
PINSKY: Yes.
MANETTE: Up until she was like 11 years old. And, then if you do not think he knew that his son was having sex with his daughter, this girl
is the only one being punished in this family. And, I am really concerned about the fact that everything seems to be focused on this girl.
PINSKY: Well, you heard --
MANETTE: I would not be surprised, Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: Danine --
MANETTE: -- if she was the source of sexual satisfaction for all of the people in this household that were older than her.
PINSKY: Oh my God. But, Danine, you heard the way an attorney thinks about this. Mark Eiglarsh says, "It all starts with who pulls the
trigger." But, I agree with you. What do you say to Mark?
MANETTE: You know, and I understand what he is talking about legally, that yes, as far as the arrest comes and she is, you know, if it all starts
with the rest and her, the person that committed the initial crime that called the police there. I get that.
But, there is so much of a back story here. And, I cannot even understand why the 11-year-old was arrested along with her sister. What
did she do, let her out of the room? Why is she in custody? No one has claimed that.
PINSKY: Yes. I do know --
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, there is more horrifying details to the 3-year- old. Remember the 3-year-old? So, she apparently ran up to the brother after the brother was killed and was trying to --
PINSKY: Revive him?
SCHACHER: I do not know -- No. Not revive him, but understanding what had happened to her brother. And, when the police showed up, she ran
to the police and told them that the brother was dead.
PINSKY: All right. I have got a quote from the sheriff about the 3- year-old. I have not seen this. I am anxious to see what this is. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK HUNTER, COLUMBIA COUNTY SHERIFF: The 3-year-old, she was present when all of this took place. There is some other things that are -
- after this case is closed out, I am sure they will use this as a study case for dealing with juveniles and stuff. But she was present in the home
the entire time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Spirit, they are going to use this as a study case for juveniles, what is he talking about? In terms of -- Whether or not this
kid can be helped, is that what he is talking about?
CLANTON: You know, this whole thing is just so bizarre to me. You talk about using this as a study case. I want them to start with the
individuals who came into the house and investigated.
PINSKY: That is what they should be studying . That is where the study case should start. What is wrong with the system?
CLANTON: This is all bizarre. This is a child who was failed by every adult who entered into her life, and she decided to take matters into
her own hands, unfortunately --
PINSKY: Listen, spirit --
CLANTON: -- when everybody is saying, "This is OK for her to happen."
PINSKY: Spirit, so, you are saying -- she is failed. Listen, maybe the mom was being abused in some fashion.
CLANTON: Yes.
PINSKY: That is why she ended up on a truck leaving her children behind.
CLANTON: Yes.
PINSKY: Danine, you are shaking your head vigorously, yes. Right, Danine?
MANETTE: Yes, because you know well --
PINSKY: You are right -- go ahead.
MANETTE: -- if that father had said "No, honey. I think you should stay home and be with our daughter who is being molested by her brother and
protect her for a while, and I will take this trip on my own."
I mean that never happened. This was a cycle of stuff that was going on in this house. Everybody was OK with it there. And, that is why she
was so happy in putting on makeup after she killed him because she was probably at peace.
PINSKY: Emily -- oh, my God. This whole thing is --
ROBERTS: There is also -- yes, the fact is, though, she had been molested by him for many years. Emotionally -- the first thing, she is 15.
I think emotionally she was stunted at say maybe 11 years old. She knew what she was doing and she was trying to protect her siblings. But at the
same time, you know, she is not a 15-year-old. She really is not. She is stuck somewhere.
PINSKY: Well, let us take a second on that. Because of all that abuse she had been through. And, because of the lack of attention by the
system and because of the meltdown in the family system, she is very unlikely that she would develop both cognitively to her chronological age.
I think that is absolutely true. Anybody disagree with that on the panel? Anybody?
MANETTE: And, were they in school? Was she in school at all?
SCHACHER: She was recently --
ROBERTS: Yes. Where was the school? Why did not they call?
SCHACHER: She was recently kicked out of school for bad behavior. I mean you can imagine why she had bad behavior.
ROBERTS: Yes.
SCHACHER: But, question to the panel. So, let us say that she is -- they are lenient, hopefully, on her because of all the hell that she has
had to go through. Will she be normal again? Will she be able to assimilate --
PINSKY: Which kid? Which child?
SCHACHER: -- the 15-year-old. Can she -- all of them.
PINSKY: The middle one.
SCHACHER: Can they assimilate into society again or no?
CLANTON: None of them. None of them will ever be.
(CROSSTALKS)
ROBERTS: Was she ever, quote, unquote, "Normal?" I mean the thing is she has had so much trauma that I do think that there are ways and there
are therapies out there that can really rehabilitate. I have seen this work for other kids.
I do not think that necessarily she is going to be -- well, she may not make it on to being actually what we consider normal. But at the end
of the day, she really can makes success and hopefully be in a loving family.
PINSKY: You are talking about the 15-year-old?
ROBERTS: Not this family.
SCHACHER: Primarily --
ROBERTS: Yes. Not this family.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: Yes. And, I am saying the 3-year-old is someone, that if they get out of that home and into a nurturing environment. Spirit, you
are saying yes on that, and has a lot of treatment and attention, these early redemption can really, really work --
MANETTE: And, sadly, she probably feel safer now than she has felt in her entire life, the 15-year-old in custody.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: And, the 3-year-old again, is not processing at that level. But, the 15-year-old maybe greatly relieved. And, we do not know, we just
do not know, but we know that this is a meltdown that was poorly served by the community and it is hard to say this, but you have to have compassion
for the girl that was the murderer.
SCHACHER: Of course. Oh, my Gosh.
PINSKY: I am not saying she is not a murderer and I am not saying she would not do it again, because what they have done may have created a
monster, but you still have compassion. All right, guys.
Next up, were there warning signs in the another murder, this now of a Manhattan millionaire?
And later, more than 2 million people have seen the viral video on how to get past a drunk driving checkpoint. It is making many people angry.
We are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Murder, staged like suicide of a millionaire by his own son. 30-year-old Thomas Gilbert Jr. has been
charged with murdering his Hedge Fund Founding father, Thomas Gilbert, Sr. with a bullet to the head.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDNETIFIED MALE REPORTER: After they barged into the, Tommy Gilbert, the younger`s apartment, they found all sorts of ammunition and
empty shell casings, including ammunition matching the glock that was found at his father is dead body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I think it was a spoiled rich kid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: He has never was had to live by the rules. His parents had put him to a one fine school after the next. He
does not have to work. Does not have to abide by any rule. And, when his father finally says, I am cutting your weekly pocket change from $600 to
$400, boom. Dad is dead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Mark, Ashlan and Spirit. Tommy Gilbert, Jr. charged with second degree murder on death of his father. I do not
know why second degree not first degree. He is not yet entered a plea. Sam, one of the ex-girlfriends has given us more information, right?
SCHACHER: That is right, Dr. Drew. Her name is Anna Rothschild. She dated Tommy Gilbert Jr., for several months, OK? And, just FYI, she was
nearly 20 years older than he was. She told the Daily Mail, quote, "Very soon after going out with him, a mutual friend of ours told me, `Anna, you
have to be very really careful. Tommy is going to chop you up into little pieces`." She went on to say, "My friend just said he got a really bad
vibe of Tommy and thought he was psycho because he never spoke. I just thought it was because he was shy."
PINSKY: Now, Ashlan, you have told my producers that whole report by the ex-girlfriend made you suspicious?
COUSTEAU: Well, I thought that just looking, you know, at -- with the age difference and the New York social scene, that it seemed like a very
interesting pairing. And, I hope that they really did date and she is being honest, but being a journalist, knowing that some people just like to
put their names out in the press.
There was one picture of them together in New Year`s Eve party, but that is all I saw. I have not seen anything else to kind of corroborate
her story. She is in PR in New York. I do not know, for me, her story just seemed a little weird.
PINSKY: It does seem a little weird. But then a lot of stuff surrounding this guy is weird. Spirit, I had been thinking for the
beginning this kid may have been in a manic state. We hear about him bursting into the building his dad was in. He was seen very hazard with
how he staged the murder. He made it look like -- Sam am I right on this?
SCHACHER: Suicide, yes.
PINSKY: He made it look like a suicide, but put the gun in the wrong hand. The guy is right-handed. He put it in his left hand. Spirit,
although I hear it. I start to see sort of mania working its way through all this. He is quiet. That does not fit with that.
CLANTON: It does not at all. But, you also hear about him coming on and off meds. I mean there is a lot of this that does not make sense.
And, so of course, the impetus could be the money. It could be all of those things.
But, we never know what it was that led him to the apartment that night. Clearly, he was going to confront his father. Clearly, he had a
weapon. Clearly, he knew how he wanted the situation and go down. But, everything else about it seemed -- it just makes no sense at all.
PINSKY: So, Mark, I got a bunch of legal questions. First of all, why second degree? I mean this was highly premeditated, was not it?
EIGLARSH: Maybe, maybe not. He has not spoken, so they did not know if he decided to kill his father once he was alone with him and started to
talk with him. Perhaps he was going there just to have a discussion and then it escalated --
PINSKY: Oops, with my gun that I take up down to stage.
EIGLARSH: I know people are rolling their eyes.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: I know people are rolling their eyes. But, the burden would be on the state to prove it beyond the reasonable doubt. So, second
degree is still a very significant charge.
PINSKY: And, Mark, did not we see a situation, you know, a reminiscent of this and somebody dreamed of a crazy defense called
affluenza.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: This poor boy. This poor boy, he was raised in affluenza. And, the parents were going to cut his entitlements now by $100 a month.
Oh, it is a poor thing.
EIGLARSH: Yes. Drew, affluenza, I looked it up. It is Latin for, "You ain`t got no other defense." That is really what that is.
(LAUGHING)
What is most telling, and I want to enter in the dialogue here is that I just read in September he was arrested for violating a restraining
order. I would like to know about that.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Ashlan, I see you nodding your head.
COUSTEAU: Yes.
PINSKY: And, again, to me that is sort of impulsivity and aggression that we associated with things like Bipolar disorder mania.
COUSTEAU: Well, not only was he arrested for violating a restraining order, he is actually the main suspect in an arson case where another guy,
who was the son of a huge hedge fund, was allegedly, maybe dating this guy`s girlfriend, and their giant house burnt down.
PINSKY: Oops.
COUSTEAU: So, he right now is a suspect. And, I think he is due in court in February 2nd, but he will not be there.
PINSKY: But, he will be nearby, so he can get to court pretty easily.
SCHACHER: He also, if this is true, as Ashlan said they are still investigating it, but he also possibly killed their family dog. So, who
knows what we are dealing with here?
PINSKY: But, well, Spirit, you kind of see the case that I am building here that, you know, he is impulsive. He is aggressive. He is
acting out in strange ways. He has been advised to take medication in the past. There are few conditions where people go, this is a biological
problem, you have got to take medication or it is not going to go well.
CLANTON: Exactly.
PINSKY: And, they get --
CLANTON: And, how many times have you heard me say on this show that these things do not just happen within a bubble, within themselves. What
happen is unfortunately, we do not put the pieces together until after. Then all the other little things make sense.
PINSKY: And, spirit, let me interrupt you.
CLANTON: He killed the dog. He set fire.
PINSKY: Yes. But, let me interrupt you. There is something -- there is a little subtle piece here that I think that I want to put
something over on to the parents. I do not want to create more victims. This poor mom, it got to be awful for her.
I mean -- but the fact is, they gave him money and not a job. I wonder if this guy is a Princeton graduate and the dad in a high position,
he could have helped that kid get a job. Now, is that because he is a spoiled brat, or resistant to actually entering the workplace or is it they
were feeling as though he could not handle it?
CLANTON: Perhaps they knew he cannot keep a job.
PINSKY: That is right, he could not handle it.
SCHACHER: He tried to work with the father, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Tell me, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes. Well, he did not want to work with the father according to this girlfriend. This Anna Rothschild. He started to work
with the father and he did not favor working in that environment.
PINSKY: Mark?
EIGLARSH: Yes, Drew, you are going to need a defense, because people at home, whenever you do this, start to diagnose people, they think
erroneously that you are trying to come up with a defense to justify it. Before you need to say anything, I am going to defend you here.
PINSKY: Thank you.
EIGLARSH: No. You are just analyzing, and the facts legally, assuming all this is true, where it is staged, and the way that he kept his
door locked so the police could not get in, clearly show at the time he knew right from wrong.
PINSKY: Yes.
EIGLARSH: So, if it really was him, he is not getting off.
PINSKY: No. My point in really bringing this up for the viewers is to say, A. If you have a child and you are in denial about their behavior,
it can go very bad, number 1.
EIGLARSH: Yes.
PINSKY: Number 2, if you have a history of mental illness or aggression and those sorts of behaviors or substance abuse -- by the way,
this kid probably did not use any substances, but things can go very, very bad. And, once they do, it is on the legal system now. It is over.
You can no longer treat it. You can no longer -- you no longer have any sort of past. It is now on the legal system. Now, Sam, a lot of
people of our viewers felt that another issue with the family is that they were sort of pulling the rug out from under this kid by having suddenly
gotten tough on him. Can you give me some examples of that.
SCHACHER: He is 30. OK. So, here is an example from Reynelda. She says, "To make the son change his parentally subsidized lifestyle cold
turkey was cruel. He was not raised to struggle for the essentials of life."
PINSKY: Once again, Mark, affluenza.
COUSTEAU: Wait. It was only $100. It was $100.
(CROSSTALKS)
COUSTEAU: That could not even buy this kid`s sushi bill.
(LAUGHING)
EIGLARSH: I am happy there is people like that out there, because when I pick a jury, it is always nice to know that someone like that is on
my team. That is great.
(LAUGHING)
COUSTEAU: It is a good point.
PINSKY: Next up, new information about this trust fund son -- I think he have a trust fund. He is a rich kid, anyway. He is accused of killing
his father as we are discussing.
And later, a video seen by millions showing how to get past a DUI checkpoint without even rolling down your car window. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Murder, gunshot in the middle of the head, and his hand placed over the gun. His left hand placed over the gun
as if to imply that it was a suicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I keep thinking bipolar disorder with this kid that the parents may have been in denial about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: He was seeing a psychiatrist, he was on medication, he was a loner, he was a dysfunctional individual. That is
what leads people to chit this type of a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMERICA: This guy killed his father and ruined his life because of $200. Something is not going right.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
AMERICA: Not only that, he potentially killed a dog and set a house on fire. There is something not right going on here.
PINSKY: Manic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Danine Manette, Wendy Walsh, Psychologist, author of "30-Day Love Detox and Emily Roberts back
with us. By the way, Wendy, thanks for rushing in here. I know you have been dealing with Los Angeles traffic.
Welcome. Not long after Tommy Gilbert, Jr., heard that his parents were cutting his allowance. This is why we are making this association.
It was cut the allowance by $100. I think he was getting like something like $3,000 a month, something crazy like that.
SCHACHER: Well, most of that went to his rent, though, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, OK. That is much better.
SCHACHER: So, a few hundred a month.
PINSKY: Cut him back. Cut him back by $100. Police say shortly after that, he shot his father in the head and tried to make it look like a
suicide. Now, the ex-girlfriend was asked if he was drinking or doing drugs and what does she say?
SCHACHER: Well, Anna Rothschild told the "Daily Mail" quote, "It is absurd to say he was on the social scene. He did not drink. He had about
four drinks in the four months we dated. He did not do drugs. I suspected his drug arrest in 2007 was probably pot related. He said once a
psychiatrist prescribed him meds, but he saw a therapist instead of taking them. I never saw any signs of drug taken."
PINSKY: All right, so Emily, I see you are recoiling at what she said there about --
ROBERTS: I do not buy it.
PINSKY: Well -- with this therapist may not have been a licensed professionally. I do not understand -- or maybe he hid from that therapist
that a physician had recommended medication of him.
ROBERTS: Well, we do not know if he is telling the truth, but he did get in trouble from what I read at a club in the Hamptons and who knows if
he was intoxicated then.
I mean this is a kid who was in the social scene. So, he could have been partying and the girl who is -- probably was partying, let us be
honest here, and the girl that was his girlfriend for four months what does she really know about him, it was four months ago. And, who knows how much
he told her.
PINSKY: And, Wendy, I have not heard your thoughts of this case yet.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think this young man is suffering from some kind of mental illness, that his parents were basically
buying off the symptomology, if you will.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: They were making him dependent, but not too dependent, hoping that somehow he would suddenly get better. And, obviously, he was seeing a
psychiatrist. He was prescribed meds that he should have been on and you are right, he may not have told his therapist that he should be on meds.
And the therapist were trying to talk therapy him, but I think this was a very disturbed young man who was in a wealthy world.
PINSKY: But, Wendy -- there is really interesting piece with what you bring up here, which is the parent`s denial, and them trying to fix things
with money, trying to fix things that they know better rather than making his allowance, which I guess he needed to survive if he was not able to
function in the world --
SCHACHER: He went to Princeton, Dr. Drew. Let us not say he was not able to function.
PINSKY: Yes, but he may have decompensated since then. Stuff happens during college. It is common for major mental illness to come on then and
then they become less functional later. Wendy, you agree?
WALSH: And, Dr. Drew, explain to Sam that you can have great mental illness and still have high intelligence and you can have a few high
functioning habits. You can get --
SCHACHER: I believe that.
WALSH: But, you know, what is going on inside your head, the thinking process is often are not right.
PINSKY: And, as usual, Danine, is sitting there and smiling on this. She is smiling away.
MANETTE: Because I want to introduce a new category for 2015.
PINSKY: OK.
MANETTE: We have done mental illness and we have beaten that horse to the ground and we have done evil. And, I would like to introduce
something called environmental illness, which means that you were raised in such a jacked up environment for whatever reason that you turn out to be a
pretty bad person.
And, it maybe it has a little bit of an element of mental illness accountability. But, it also got to have an element of accountability.
So, it is like a lot of mentally-ill people, they function just fine and they do not kill.
WALSH: They just have bad morals.
MANETTE: I totally agree
(CROSSTALKS)
MANETTE: They are in the middle of the category.
PINSKY: Wait. I like this.
ROBERTS: So many act us to disorders which are personality disorders are diagnosed because there is an invalid leading environment and a
biological predisposition.
PINSKY: Right.
ROBERTS: That does not mean that it is just a predisposition, but if you got an invalid leading environment, which is daddy says, "I am just
going to throw money at you and be there to support you," then you probably not going to wind up feeling really great about yourself, which is this
guy. I would like to diagnose him with some prick disorder.
PINSKY: Well, you see, that is where I was going to. I was going to offer up environmental a-hole. Maybe that was sort of --
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: People that commit horrible heinous things because they were from as Danine -- used good language jacked up environment.
MANETTE: Jacked up environment. And, they can go to jail but they can have counseling while they are there. But, you know --
WALSH: How do we know this environment was so jacked up? These could have been loving parents who were trying to do best to their child --
MANETTE: Well, we know that these parents, they are throwing money --
PINSKY: Not only that, we are creating kind of another victim here. This poor mom has lost her husband. The son is not well. He is going to
prison. I mean this is -- I do not want to create more victims here. We have got one dead.
ROBERTS: Absolutely. He did not really care about his mom either. If you think about it, he said go make me a sandwich and he shoot his dad.
I mean that is so disrespectful and it also shows the entitlement.
PINSKY: It shows environmental a-hole, Danine.
MANETTE: Yes. Yes, exactly.
PINSKY: I think it is what we see there. There is an evidence of that, anyway.
(LAUGHING)
WALSH: Just bad manners and disrespect. This is much deeper and this is probably some parents who did love and care about their kid and
thought I will keep a basic roof over his head and a little money in his pocket and maybe he will get better.
SCHACHER: They enabled him. He is 30 years old.
PINSKY: I agree with you some. But, may be again, their status. They are protecting things. They are afraid to be honest about it. In a
way, in a way, this is another death because of stigma, because the family could not be honest.
Het, I have a kid with a biological disorder, he is not taking his meds, he is not going to go well, got behind him and make sure he takes
care of himself because somebody is dead because of stigma.
I mean if there is a lesion to be learned here, everybody, do not let stigma prevent you from getting help yourself or from helping your family
and not talking about it. If he had a heart condition, he would bring that up. Why? Because it is the brain we cannot talk about it. Yes, the brain
does affect you, but you are the influence of a biology that can be treated medically.
Next up, there is a video that is big on social media tonight. Showing how to get past a drunk driving checkpoint. Some folks are not
happy about this at all. We are back to discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: New Year`s eve, a driver approaches a DUI checkpoint with all of his information hanging out of the window.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am going to rolled it all the way up, in that way I will not have to open my window. The second you open your
window, they can say they smell alcohol or drugs coming from the vehicle. And the moment that you speak a word they can claim that your speech is
slurred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Danine, Mark and Spirit. That video has had more than 2 million hits. The man in the car is a lawyer from Florida --
Mark, shocking, Florida. And, Mark, full disclosure, before we start poking at Florida, I want you to know I love Florida. I always had a great
time there. I have wonderful friends from Florida. I love you, Mark.
EIGLARSH: I love you too.
PINSKY: But I would be damn if every time we deal with a jacked up environment that is not from Florida.
(LAUGHING)
EIGLARSH: In this case, let me just say this. I do not disagree with you. I practice in this area. And, what is his next step? Step
number two, if you are accused of DUI, and the cop looks at you and says, "You have slurred speech." Step two, he tells you, "Look at the cop dead
in the eye and say, "it is not slurred speech, I am speaking in cursive."
PINSKY: Seriously? You know, you are thinking fine. OK. All right. Fair enough. You are over our head, Mark.
EIGLARSH: I am joking but that is how stupid this is. That is how ridiculous this is. That does not work.
PINSKY: OK. Well, Sam, why --
EIGLARSH: That does not work.
PINSKY: Why did they shoot this video? What do they want to do?
SCHACHER: OK. Ouch, Mark. All right, so we did reach out to him and this is what he told us, Dr. Drew, quote, "The method used in the video
and their fair DUI book were inspired by the mistakes clients make that hurt our efforts to defend them. Too many innocent people are wrongly
arrested and prosecuted for DUI."
PINSKY: And, Mark a lot of what they are working for is eye movement. Some call nystagmus when you look up to the periphery. And, that is a good
sign that you have had a little too much.
EIGLARSH: Let us talk about reality. It worked in this one instance. In reality, I know these cops in this area. And, I do not think they are
different in other parts of the country. You have this little thing hanging down. These cops are going to say, put your damn window down.
And, you know, this is good for his business, because he is going to have a lot of people getting arrested because they are going to think, I
gave you all the information, I do not have to do anything.
PINSKY: And, Danine, I am remembering that one situation with that couple in the car with the kids where they would not roll the window down.
The cops busted the window and tazed the guy.
MANETTE: And, honestly, I mean I would like to ask Mark, how many people are wrongfully arrested and convicted for DUI? You have to either a
blood test, a urine test or, you know, you have to have some DUI breathalyzer.
PINSKY: It has to be something about Florida.
EIGLARSH: I will answer the question.
MANETTE: So, how often are people wrongly arrested and convicted?
EIGLARSH: First of all, all of my clients, let us start there. I am kidding. Number two -- no, listen I understand his motives. It definitely
happens. There is good doctors, there is good bakers, there is good plumbers and there are some bad ones.
And, there are cops who I have had dealings with who absolutely swear under the penalties of perjury that one of my clients is impaired and then
we get the blood results back or the breath comes back at 000. So, they make mistakes.
PINSKY: But then who cares?
MANETTE: But, they are not convicted.
PINSKY: They are not convicted then. Who cares?
EIGLARSH: No, no, no. Because they get arrested. He is trying to tell you -- I am not defending his actions. What the attorney is telling
you is how to avoid getting arrested, because you get arrested and your case gets dropped later down the road. They still arrest. They do not
unarrest you. But, the answer is do not drink and drive.
PINSKY: Spirit, my question is does this encourage people to try to get around drunk driving. Is that endangering people?
CLANTON: No, because people are going to do what they are going to do regardless. And, you have to remember also that this is a check point.
This is for individuals who have not done anything. They have not violated the law.
This is not the person that is coming up to the road, swerving and moving all in ways that are going to make the police be able to say, "Roll
down your window or step out of your vehicle."
So, this is this man saying, let me show you how not to incriminate yourself. And I think it says a lot when now we have lawyers and people
who are affluent now saying, "We need to protect ourselves from the laws and from the people that are there to protect us."
PINSKY: Listen, when it comes to drugs and alcohol, trust me my patients and the people I have dealt with are very creative. They are
experts at this stuff. Trust me.
SCHACHER: Right. The whizzinator, Dr. Drew. We brought that up.
PINSKY: That Whizzinator, OK. Here we go, Mark. Get ready for that. But, this gentleman -- the attorney is in this video is not drunk,
of course. There is nothing wrong with what he is doing, and he claims the system works.
We are going to talk more about that. But, listen, I got something very exciting for you, buddy. If you like more of this program, like more
of HLN, you can take us live with you wherever you go. You can get our HLN to go app.
It is available for Apple products and Android devices. We are very excited about this. We are joining the modern era. We are part of the
mobile units and devices that you are holding your hand and work with everyday. You can find us there, with that app. Check into it. We will
be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: That right there proves the DUI plan works. You do not have to roll your window down. You do not have to talk
to them at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Danine, Mark and Spirit. We are discussing a viral video, which an attorney shows how to avoid getting arrested at a DUI
checkpoint. Is not that, Mark? Is not that the point?
MANETT: Yes.
PINSKY: That is what he is trying to show, but that is only one scenario of how it could go down. I can think of nine others that would
bring in more business for me because those cops are not going to buy that.
SCHACHER: OK. What is wrong with a dui checkpoint? I drive through them all the time on Sunset Boulevard and I appreciate them because it gets
the drunk driver a-holes off the road that kills our friends and our family.
PINSKY: Well, Danine is saying yes.
MANETTE: What is wrong with it --
PINSKY: Hold on. Danine, so you have a vigorous yes on this. Yes?
MANETTE: I will because I will be so glad when this climate of us against them with law enforcement comes to past. I do not think that they
are out there to violate our civil rights. I think that they are out there to protect us from drunks on the road killing people.
SCHACHER: Yes.
MANETTE: And, so you know that is what gets frustrating me.
PINSKY: All right.
MANETTE: He should not spent his time making a video on how to escape DUI.
PINSKY: Well, that is interesting. I think, Danine, you are on something there. Because Spirit, here is who I am sympathetic to is in
California, you can drink about a glass and a half of wine and after that you are in trouble. What about somebody that has two glasses of wine.
I mean they are not drunk. They are not intoxicated and they are driving perfectly well. I mean we can argue about how well a two glasses
of wine, but that person is going to have a problem at that checkpoint.
CLANTON: They absolutely they are going to have a problem. And, you know, the real problem that I have with this is that while it does protect
us, what about all of those citizens -- this equates to the unlawful search and seizure, the stop and frisk and all the other things designed to
protect us when we voluntarily give away our rights to allow for our rights to be trampled on in another places and spaces. So, we have to be careful.
Yes, this checkpoint may help but how many people do they actually catch when they do it?
PINSKY: Well, out here they get a bunch, I bet. Mark, go ahead.
EIGLARSH: The answer, number one, obviously lies in not drinking and driving. However, what he is trying to suggest and I will defend him a
little bit because I have clients like this is if they do smell the odor of an alcoholic beverage emanating from someone`s person, the next step is to
have you perform the triple lynndie on the side of the road, which most people cannot perform sober.
So fail, pass, fail, pass. Cannot drive a car, can drive a car. It becomes a challenging. I have got clients who just cannot perform those
tests. They had a couple of arrests and boom, they are under arrest.
CLANTON: You have the right not to incriminate yourself and that is your right.
PINSKY: But, Danine, even though I am sympathetic to somebody who has a glass and half of wine, this whole conversation makes me
uncomfortable, I agree, that this us/them thing is sort of perpetuated by this feeling.
MANETTE: And, I do understand that we have a constitutional right to -- against unlawful searches and seizure. I understand that. But, I think
we need to step back and look at the big picture.
And, you know, in these DUI checkpoints, it is random. It is like every fifth car, or every third car. It is not so much the stop and frisk
when you are walking up to certain people of certain colors in certain neighborhoods.
PINSKY: And, let us be super clear about this. The DUI laws, the low blood alcohol levels, these checkpoints have really worked.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: They really worked.
SCHACHER: And a deterrent in the least.
PINSKY: Not just as a deterrent but actually as a data in terms of the outcome, in terms of saving lives, young kids are not getting run over
by drunk drivers. It is actually working, Mark.
EIGLARSH: Drew, if somebody has the time to put together the sheet that he is suggesting with all that detail, your registration, your
license, I want my lawyer, all this -- also, you have got the time to call a cab.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Right. In our poll, most people said -- it was kind of mixed. It was 54 percent, yes; 46 percent, no. There it is. Video does
not encourage drunk driving. We got to go. "Forensic Files" next.
END
