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CNN NEWSROOM
U.S. Declares North Korea Behind Sony Cyber Terror Attack; Defector Says North Korea Runs Cyber Terror Network; What's Next on Historic U.S.-Cuba Deal; U.S. to Ease Travel Restrictions to Cuba
Aired December 18, 2014 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: NEWSROOM starts now.
And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with the massive cyber terror attack on Sony Pictures. Right now U.S. officials are gearing up to announce that North Korea was indeed behind that brazen hack that exposed confidential information like Social Security numbers, internal memos and employee salaries.
Also new this morning, a defector who once worked as a computer expert for North Korea tells CNN he believes the communist country is running a massive hacker network made up of nearly 2,000 secret cyber warriors.
All this as Sony pulls the plug on the Christmas Day release of "The Interview" after a terror threat by hackers. And according to reports, a second movie starring actor Steve Carell set to take place in North Korea is also canned.
Let's bring in justice reporter Evan Perez to talk more about this.
So the Obama administration is going to make this official announcement sometime today that North Korea was indeed behind this attack?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Carol, that's what we expect. We expect that they're going to treat this as a very, very serious thing. This has been handled at the highest levels. We have Lisa Monaco, the president's counterterrorism adviser who has been helping to coordinate the response from the U.S. intelligence agencies, the FBI, the Justice Department's national security division.
That tells you exactly how high this is and how serious this is as a -- as you called it, a cyber terrorism act. And, you know, this has, in some ways, been a lot more successful than any of the other threats that North Korea makes every few months or so. You know, they make threats against South Korea, against the United States, about launching new missiles. A lot of times don't really do anything. Sometimes they explode before they go anywhere.
This, this has been a lot more successful and in some ways they are censoring the America public in a way that nobody else can. COSTELLO: So the thought here is that North Korea has this, you know,
they're turning these cyber warriors, so to speak, doesn't take much money to train such people inside North Korea, right?
PEREZ: Well, yes. They do what they're told if Kim Jong-Un says it happens. And that's one reason why the investigators that have been working on this case, the FBI and others, believe that this came from the top. Because nothing happens out of North Korea without Kim Jong- Un's say so, without the military regime deciding this.
And there's this one group of hackers that works for the military called Bureau 121 and they are front and center at these efforts. I mean, they've been doing attacks against companies in South Korea and now we've seen this. We'll see where the administration goes and how far they're going to try to go, you know, in their response to this because they have to respond.
COSTELLO: Yes. You would think so.
PEREZ: Right.
COSTELLO: We're going to talk about that in just a bit.
Evan Perez, thanks so much.
We're also learning new information about the group of hackers believed to have carried out that attack. You heard what Evan said. It's called Bureau 121. Their target, foreign countries.
A North Korean defector and former Pyongyang military computer worker tells CNN the group of secret cyber warriors is handpicked by the North Korean regime. Members are believed to be planted in countries around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANG SE-YUL, NORTH KOREAN DEFECTOR (Through Translator): Cyber attack capability is much more dangerous than nuclear weapons because often it's hard to find the attackers and low cost and effort, North Korea can cause an incredible impact on the many aspects of the targeting society, politically, economically, and militarily.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: So let's dig deeper into this topic with CNN's Will Ripley in Tokyo.
It sounds like a bad movie but it's dangerous. Tell us more about this Bureau 121.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's all too real, Carol. I was in North Korea a few months ago and I can tell you how remarkable it is that this country is able to pull together the funds to train and supply this group of 1800 technical wizards that are plucked from Pyongyang University. They are the elite of the elite in society. They live in relatively luxurious housing by comparison with the millions of people in that country.
You can barely scrape together enough food, even in that capital city where they don't have enough electricity to keep the lights on 24 hours. They somehow manage to keep this group fully powered and fully supplied so that they can basically conduct these cyber attacks.
This is the first kind of attack that they've conducted on the United States but we know that they've credited South Korean broadcasters before with this similar tactics. But this level and of course a U.S. corporation being affected, Carol, unprecedented.
COSTELLO: All right, Will Ripley reporting live from Tokyo this morning.
Many experts fear if cyber attackers can infiltrate a company like Sony the damage could be far worse if cyber soldiers attend government sites like power plants, pipelines and water systems.
Let's talk more about that with CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes. We're also joined via Skype by a former hacker, Kevin Mitnick.
Welcome to both of you.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Thank you, Carol.
KEVIN MITNICK, FORMER COMPUTER HACKER: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Thanks for being -- and Kevin, I should also mention, you're the author of the book "Ghost in the Wires: My Adventures as the World's Most Wanted Hacker." So we're very interested to talk to you this morning.
Tom, first question to you, Newt Gingrich called North Korea's action an act of war. Is it?
FUENTES: No, not quite. I mean it's a serious action, it's a criminal offense. It's an act of terrorism. You know, I don't know if it's enough that we're going to have to declare war on them and send in the military and nuke them or whatever other things you technically might do an as act of war but it's a serious, serious matter and will probably get worse.
If I can add, it's nice to be on the same side as Kevin Mitnick these days. I was in San Francisco in the FBI in the '90s when we weren't exactly teammates.
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: Oh, well that's interesting. So you're not predator and prey anymore, you're kind of friends this morning?
FUENTES: Exactly.
COSTELLO: And that's a good thing. That's a good thing.
So, Kevin, Newt Gingrich also said that North Korea has won the first round of cyber war. How could you argue that they haven't?
MITNICK: Well, I think they have. They actually were successful at getting Sony Pictures to yank the movie "The Interview" through this cyber extortion scheme. So I think they did win in this case. I think it's really unfortunate that it's encroaching on our First Amendment rights. That I believe Sony should now release this movie for everybody to see. I don't think this should suppress it and we shouldn't lose against North Korea.
COSTELLO: And I want to talk to you about that, Tom, because you wouldn't think North Korea would have this capability but we've known about Bureau 121 for quite some time. So it didn't just come out of nowhere.
FUENTES: No. No, Carol. They have been doing this. They've done it to South Korea, they've done it, you know, kind of growing their abilities. But, you know, I mean, this is practically the definition of asymmetrical warfare, where even -- you know, even a country that can't launch a missile to your shores and attack you that way can do it by cyber and we've seen this, you know, with other countries as well, other state-sponsored cyber penetrations.
You know, if I could add one more thing, the vulnerability of companies to attacks like this is very serious but also that vulnerability often is magnified if they have employees on the inside who want to be part of this for whatever reason, just loyal to the company. Maybe they've been fired and the company hasn't eliminated their password access to sensitive files. You know, so we see in many of these attacks over the years, inside help to make it happen.
COSTELLO: So Kevin, what does the government need to do to go after these hackers in North Korea?
MITNICK: Well, in North Korea, I don't know. I don't know if the -- I think -- I don't think the government has a lot of options there. But I must say, a disgruntled insider would have much greater access and probably the ability to gain administrator rights in the company and get access to everything but I get hired to test companies all the time. They hire me to break in as a hacker and we're extremely successful.
And that's because it's really not that difficult and so I think North Korea would have that capability if they were, in fact, behind this to actually do it because a company like Sony has a lot of what we call attack Deckers of points where hackers could actually break in and it's extremely hard to manage all of them and in some information our journalists have given me, he showed me a document that was an internal document of Sony that spoke to a lot of their security monitoring wasn't working because of some misconfigurations.
So I don't know if hacking into Sony was really such a hard task and there might be multiple operators behind this. There might be multiple hacking groups that attacked Sony at the same time. It might not just be one.
COSTELLO: OK. So Sony may be, in part, responsible for not providing them, you know, the proper security for its systems.
On the other hand, Tom, when you have a foreign country hacking into your systems, is it the government's responsibility to protect companies from such things as well?
FUENTES: Actually, it is in that sense. The government does -- especially when it's a foreign government that's behind the penetration or the attempted attack. So the U.S. government helps that. But we have a series of serious felonies against the United States law from the penetration itself into their system, the theft of documents, the destruction of files and now the major extortion and threat of committing a terrorist physical act, implying that people would be killed by bombs if they went to the theater if the movie had been released.
So, yes, this runs the table of criminal offenses that are investigated by the FBI in particular and other government agencies.
COSTELLO: All right. Tom Fuentes, Kevin Mitnick, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.
FUENTES: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Still to come -- you're welcome.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, on the phone with the president. Under the watchful eye of CNN. Will look beyond the human drama of yesterday's prisoner swap to the far-reaching impact for millions of Americans.
CNN's Michelle Kosinski at the White House this morning.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Right. This question of what to do about Cuba fiercely debated for years is now becoming another political butting of heads.
We'll tell you what some are threatening to do about it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: A political standoff that dragged on for decades imploded by a White House bombshell that is as controversial as it is shocking. This time yesterday, American Alan Gross was enjoying his first moments of freedom as CNN and yours truly dissected the deal that included the trade of three Cuban spies. But beyond the human drama, a firestorm of questions and anger.
Is this new attitude towards the dictatorship of Cuba a deal with the devil?
CNN's Michelle Kosinski at the White House with more for us.
Good morning.
KOSINSKI: Hi, Carol. Right. This is a big question. Do you keep doing what the U.S. has been doing for 50 years -- take a hard line on Cuba, pressure the regime and wait for it to change even though that hasn't been working or do you throw this brutal regime a bone, a big one like this, and then use leverage and influence to try to spur that change?
Well, some in Congress are already vowing to keep that from happening.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How does it feel to be a free man?
KOSINSKI (voice-over): The release of Alan Gross, much more than a happy reunion. Now the sudden re-establishment of diplomatic relations with Cuba. Fidel Castro's brother still at the helm has erupted into another political firestorm.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: This policy contradiction is absurd. And it is disgraceful for a president who claims to treasure human rights and human freedom.
KOSINSKI: Especially from Hispanic lawmakers who felt left out of the discussion. Some possibly running for president next round.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We've been consistently alienating and abandoning our friends and allies and, at the same time, appeasing and coddling our enemies. First, it was Russia. Then, it was Iran. Today, it's Cuba.
KOSINSKI: And not only Republicans.
SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW YORK: It's a fallacy to believe that Cuba will reform because an American president opens his hands and the Castro brothers will suddenly unclench their fists.
KOSINSKI: President Obama spent a day explaining.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to see greater freedom, greater prosperity, greater opportunity for ordinary Cubans.
KOSINSKI: This, the first time an American president has reached out to Cuba since its revolution in the 1950s will mean an embassy in Havana, removing Cuba from a list of state-sponsors of terror and opening up some commerce, though not tourism for now, first steps lauded by U.S. business and agriculture.
OBAMA: It is the right thing to do. Today America chooses to cut loose the shackles of the past, so as to reach for a better future.
KOSINSKI: Cuba has agreed to release dozens of political prisoners and open the Internet and connectivity to its people.
Critics say not nearly enough. Plus, a spy swap, including a Cuban convicted of conspiracy to murder wrangled many for whom this subject is still raw.
The president knew it was coming, addressing that reaction before it even started. OBAMA: Let me say that I respect your passion and share your
commitment to liberty and democracy. The question is, how we uphold that commitment. I do not believe we can keep doing the same thing for over five decades and expect a different result.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOSINSKI: The White House says we have relations and do business with plenty of countries that have, frankly, a pretty terrible human rights record and feel this plan is a more efficient way of working towards those goals of ultimately bettering human rights. But some lawmakers are thinking, well, maybe they could derail this by maybe not funding a new embassy there in Cuba or not confirming a new U.S. ambassador there -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. Michelle Kosinski, reporting live from the White House this morning.
I want to take you to Miami now. That's where Chris Cuomo is this morning, because you wonder, you know, we can all understand how this benefits Cuba. But how does this benefit us? How does it benefit America? Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": And then you have this big crossover, right? Because, Carol, you have Cuban-Americans, many of whom, the first generation here, were chased out of Cuba, were forced out by an oppressive regime after the revolution, forced to lose everything and everyone they loved.
And that doesn't go away. That doesn't disappear. And that harbors resentment, betrayal feelings now about the U.S. government for trusting the same men, Raul and Fidel Castro, who caused their despair. So, that's one side here.
Then, the generation starts to move on here, second and third generations in this country, they feel differently. They feel that nothing seems to be working there, somewhat of the echo of the president. So, you have that conflict, and we are where the conflict meets. This is the Versailles. It's a very famous place down here. This is a rock that is an outcropping of Cuba, it's called, in Spanish, because this is where the community comes together.
So, there are two minds on this and it's a very passionate situation so there's been a lot of heated exchanges.
But then, when you look at it politically, it came down to Alan Gross, from the American perspective, that he needed to come home. And they achieved that. You heard from two lawmakers this morning on "NEW DAY," Senator Tom Udall and Representative Chris Van Hollen. Chris Van Hollen was on the plane with him, the famous picture of Alan Gross celebrating while talking to President Obama and having CNN on in the background.
Here's what they had to say about why this is the right move at the right time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
SEN. TOM UDALL (D), NEW MEXICO: We are turning our back on a failed policy and moving forward with engagement. And that's the way I think the United States works best, is engaging countries like Cuba and supporting the Cuban people. Under this policy, all that I have seen, from my several trips to Cuba and that I've studied, is that the leaders do better with this kind of policy, not the Cuban people. And so, this engagement is going to empower them.
REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: There's a generational split within the Cuban-American community. This is not giving the Cuban government anything. This is trying to empower the Cuban people.
Again, the Castro regime has benefited from the isolation in the sense that their people have been punished but they are still there and there's no sign that another five or ten years of trying to isolate Cuba will result in any kind of regime change.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
CUOMO: And it's interesting, Carol, you know, from what you're hearing here, there is an assumption of transparency and of good faith operations by the Cuban government that many here don't put any stock in. And it's no small irony that a big third wheel in this situation in a good way was the Vatican and the pope, right, because it may take someone with great faith and the prospect of change to see the potential benefit to this policy.
COSTELLO: All right. Chris Cuomo, thank you so much. Chris Cuomo live in Miami.
Fidel Castro, aside, America has long romanticized Cuba. We wear pictures of a Cuban revolutionary Che Guevara on t-shirts, we covet Cuban cigars, we revere music from the Buenavista Social Club, and don't get me on Yasiel Puig, Queen B and Jay-Z courted controversy by visiting Cuba and wearing island clothes. Jay-Z smoke a Cuban cigar and enthusiastically took in the sites.
Cuba is cool. As you might expect, in light of the easing of travel restrictions, there is a spike in a number of Americans wanting to experience those hot Havana nights for themselves.
I'm joined by Katharine Bonner, the vice president of marketing at Tauck which offers trips to Cuba.
Good morning. And thank you for being with me.
KATHARINE BONNER, VICE PRESIDENT OF MARKETING, TAUCK: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: Catherine, have you gotten more calls?
BONNER: Maybe a little bit in the last day, but Cuba has been exciting for many travelers over the past few years.
COSTELLO: So, why do Americans want to go to Cuba? What do they tell you?
BONNER: Well, first of all, it's so close to home and it's a little bit of that element of forbidden fruit, someplace that I can't go easily or legally for a long time, and now, under our people-to-people cultural exchange license, they can go with a select number of tour operators.
So, I think it's that innate curiosity for someplace so close that has been isolated for the last 50 years.
COSTELLO: Do they ever say things to you like, we're a little concerned that we're supporting the communist regime of Fidel Castro?
BONNER: You know, you get that comment from time to time. Let's face it, people have been going to China in droves for years that has a similar type of regime, but I think what draws people is that people- to-people connection and the opportunity to talk to and get to know the real Cuban people.
COSTELLO: Let's talk a little bit about the Obama administration's easing of travel restrictions. It's still not easy to go, right?
BONNER: No. You have to, first of all, go with a company that has a certain license. It can be a people-to-people cultural exchange license or an education license, something like that. And because there is no banking in Cuba, for example, you have to buy a package ahead of time and go with a company that has a charter relationship as well because there is no scheduled air to Cuba.
COSTELLO: But I would expect as relations between the two country continue to normalize, that it will be good for your business.
BONNER: I think so. I think in the short term, people are going to want to see authentic Cuba, the Cuba that exists today. And perhaps a little bit easier if there's not that anxiety about having to take cash with them if their bank cards work or if their telephones work when they are there, that might ease some anxiety.
COSTELLO: So, when America is able to build its first McDonald's in Cuba, it may not be all that exciting for people?
BONNER: It will certainly change the atmosphere, Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. Katharine Bonner, many thanks. Appreciate it.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Sony caves to the cyberattacker's demands, pulling "The Interview" with no other plans to release. We'll tell you why Newt Gingrich says the U.S. just lost its first engagement in cyber warfare.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
We now know North Korea is indeed responsible for the cyber terror attack on Sony Pictures. That means North Korea threatened America with a 9/11 attack if it showed the movie "The Interview" in theaters. Some consider that an act of war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here you have a foreign dictatorship make a decision to intervene on American soil, to punish an American company, to raise threats of physical violence. What finally stopped the movie was movie theaters were afraid there were going to be bombs or other threats being made.
Now, are we prepared to relax and allow foreign dictatorships to intimidate us in our own country and force us to change behavior? Unless we have a very strong response, we have lost this war and that should be a serious concern for the Congress and the president and require us to really rethink what is our policy. This is not a cyber stealing of something. This is a deliberate, coercive effort to change the threat of cyber involvement and the threat of physical violence at theaters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
Now, of course, this isn't the first time North Korea has talked of a 9/11-style attack on the United States. Remember last year, North Korean television debuted a dream video that depicted New York City in slayings after a missile and tack. We all laughed at it then, but, you know, after the Sony hack, it's not so funny.
Congressman Ed Royce, who is the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee is here to talk about this.
Welcome, sir.
REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Is North Korea's actions a cyber war?
ROYCE: Well, it is a cyber war and they have taken other actions which are considered very hostile -- counterfeiting hundred dollar U.S. bills for example. And when they were doing that, our undersecretary of the currency of the treasury suggested the following steps. Stewart Levy (ph), said why don't we put sanctions on that regime for a while because if we block them from the international financial community, they can't get the hard currency that they need in order to carry out the types of activities they are doing as well as their nuclear weapons program.
They did at Treasury until the State Department leaned in and forced Treasury to lift those sanctions. And for a while, the regime was really on the ropes. The dictator couldn't pay his generals. Not a good position for a dictator to be in.
I think it's time we do respond with something like those types of sanctions. We say to the banking community, look, we're going to -- you either bank with the united states or you bank with North Korea. We're going to freeze their accounts now, freeze their accounts and cut off their ability basically to function and give them a choice between compromise on these kinds of policies or economic collapse.
