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CNN NEWSROOM

Body of Missing Football Player Found; Officer Wilson Resigns, Will It Matter?; What's Next for Ferguson?; Is Cleveland the Next Ferguson?; Will an NFL Team Sign Ray Rice?; Backlash After GOP Aide Scolds Obama Girls; Rhinos Poaching Hits Record High

Aired November 30, 2014 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

We begin this hour with breaking news, and it is sad news, indeed. Police in Columbus, Ohio, have now found the body of a missing Ohio State University football player, the victim of an apparent suicide.

Kosta Karageorge hadn't been seen since 2:00 a.m. Wednesday. He had complained about concussion symptoms and how they left him confused.

Our Rosa Flores, she has been following the story and she joins us.

There was a news conference that just happened. What have we learned just within the last hour?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Within the last few minutes, Suzanne, this press conference wrapped up. Here's what we know from police.

At 2:30 p.m. today, police received a phone call about a woman and her son, that they had found the body of a man inside a dumpster. Officers responded to the scene and they say that through tattoos, through identifying the tattoos on this man, they have decided that it is, indeed, Kosta Karageorge.

Now, I want you to take a listen to what police officers had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. RICH WEINER, COLUMBUS POLICE SPOKESMAN: We are able to confirm through tattoos here at the scene that it is the body of Kosta Karageorge.

REPORTER: Do you know the cause of death?

WEINER: At this time, preliminary investigation is showing that he died from what appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound. We have recovered a firearm at the scene. The parents have been notified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, such a tough time, Suzanne, for this family. We know that the community had been looking for him. The family had been looking for him. #findkosta had been created on Twitter to spread the word. And then to receive this kind of news is just devastating for the family.

MALVEAUX: This is tragic all around because you had reported earlier that he was aware -- I mean, he sent a text message to his mother. He was aware of the affects of these concussions and that he even felt responsible for guilty, apologizing.

FLORES: I want to read to you that text, because it's just so moving, and just the thought that a mother would have this final communication from her son and that it would be this.

So, I'm going to quote here, the text message that he sent says, "I am sorry if I'm an embarrassment, but these concussions have my head all expletive up."

Now, the mom did an interview with the police when they filed the missing person's report, which is right here. I've been reading it today. And in it she says her son had several concussions before and confusion spells where he'd be confused. And so, she doesn't go into all of the details but from reading his bio, on the OSU Web site, it's clear that he had a long career as a student athlete. That he had been, you know, a wrestler.

MALVEAUX: Yes.

FLORES: He had won 35 matches in his senior year. He was a senior.

And so, and so you could tell that this was an important part of his life, and now such tragic news for the family.

MALVEAUX: It is so, so sad. I'm sure there are going to be many tests and questions about what led to his death because we have heard this before from players who have gotten concussions and who have also committed suicide or have been impacted in some way.

Rosa, thank you so much.

FLORES: You're welcome.

MALVEAUX: I appreciate it.

Now, this hour we are fast forwarding to the week ahead. We're going to take a look at the stories you're going to be talking about and hearing in the coming week.

I want to begin with our five questions for the week ahead.

Question number one: will the resignation of Darren Wilson resign anything? He resigned from the force late yesterday. But protesters say that his exit came far too late. Was his departure going to help Ferguson begin to heal?

Question number two, Ferguson went from a moment to a movement. Well, now what? Can the protest leaders take the passion, the frustration, the energy, and turn it into something significant? And what would that look like?

Question number three, in the wake of Ferguson, will police departments reexamine the controversial procedures and actually change the way that they behave in Ferguson and beyond? We've already seen a push for more body cameras and fewer weapons of war that we've seen in the streets. What else could change? How is that going to affect communities?

Question number four, is Cleveland the next Ferguson? Will people in Cleveland rise up after a rookie police officer shot and killed Tamir Rice? That is a 12-year-old boy clutching a toy gun. At this very moment, friends and family, they're gathering in Cleveland for a public viewing of that little boy's body. His funeral is set for Wednesday.

Question number five, after winning his NFL appeal, and being reinstated, will former Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice catch on with the team this season? The NFL suspended Rice indefinitely and the Ravens released him after video showed him knocking his then- fiancee unconscious.

I want to start with Ferguson and Officer Darren Wilson's resignation. Well, he is now off the force, effective immediately. No severance package. No benefits.

I want to bring in our Ed Lavandera who's there in Ferguson. He's been covering it from the very beginning.

So, Ed, give us a sense, is there a feeling that Officer Wilson's exit, is it going to change anything? And how are people there in Ferguson, protesters specifically, reacting? Are they pleased that they can move on?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, what you hear from a lot of people demanding things to change is that there is no other choice but for things to change. It's interesting, the mayor in the press conference today talked about various ideas to try to bridge the gap between the African-American community here in Ferguson and the police department. A series of programs to incentivize police officers to live here in the community, and also to bring more African-American police officers to the force here.

So, those are some of the things that the mayor talked about. But these are long-term ideas. It's going to take months for it to kind of see the fruit of that work. But many people say it's much, it's needed, and it's something that has to happen.

MALVEAUX: And thank you, Ed.

We ask ourselves, too, what comes after Ferguson? Can these protests actually change how police do their jobs? We're going to talk to two women who are active in the protests about what day are seen and what is next for the young movement here.

And Ferguson, of course, far from over, but could we see similar protests in Cleveland? Over another heartbreaking police shooting? That coming up in our fast-forward look at the week ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Now that Darren Wilson has resigned from the Ferguson police, we're now coming to question number two. What is next for this troubled community? The Justice Department is now looking into whether Wilson violated Michael Brown's civil rights during their confrontation in August.

Well, that is one reason the protesters held a sit-in there on Tuesday. No matter what the federal investigation finds, however, many people in Ferguson and elsewhere, they're going to remain deeply distrustful of how the police deal with minorities.

And the question we have is, actually can that change? Can the outrage over Michael Brown's death lead to better relations between police and the communities that they are sworn to serve and protect?

I want to bring in the Reverend Renita Marie Lamkin and Carissa McGraw, both very active in those Ferguson protests. Thank you for joining us.

I want to start off and ask you, do you believe it can change with the police department? What would you like to see next?

CARISA MCGRAW, FERGUSON RESIDENT & PROTESTER: Sorry, repeat that, again? I'm sorry.

MALVEAUX: Oh, OK. I want to start with the pastor. What would you like to see next? To you think that this can change? Is this a catalyst for change with the police department -- the relationship between the community and the cops?

MCGRAW: I mean, with the officers, I'm experiencing that from this point on, we would like to make sure that they are really here to protect us. I notice that, you know, we let officers hold a higher power, a higher authority over citizens, and we really don't even pay them enough to do that and make sure they're able to police all walks of life.

And from this point on, we want to see all our police officers go through psych tests, making sure they're eligible to police the streets and understand if you feel threatened, then this is not the job for you. I mean, if that's the case, try another field, and from this point on, we want to make sure that that relationship between our officers and our citizens that we can grow and continue this, but we need to be able to work together and understand that there is a privilege and the unprivileged and need to make sure we address that, too.

MALVEAUX: And, Reverend Lamkin, you were out there in the protests and actually got hit by a pellet, a pellet -- that you were shot with a pellet by the police there. How are you today? How are you doing? And how do you heal beyond kind of what's happened physically in the community but mentally, emotionally? Can this be used as a catalyst for change moving forward? REV. RENITA MARIE LAMKIN, ST. JOHN AME CHURCH: First of all, I'm

fine. That healed up pretty quickly.

Moving forward, I concur that we need better policing practices. We need to make sure that our police are safe on the street and we need to make sure that they are safely policing. But even deeper than that, we need to deal with the systemic issues that create the environment in which led to Michael Brown's murder. We need to improve the environment.

It's beautiful the way that the buildings that are boarded up are painted, but there are boarded up buildings all over our communities, dilapidated houses, weeds growing everywhere. There is a community that is rife and produces those who would do bad behaviors. And the police respond to everyone as if they're the few individuals. I think if we improve the overall aspect of our community, if we care for the problems that lead to violence, then we will improve our community.

MALVEAUX: And, Carissa, tell us about the makeup of the police department. How important is that? A lot of people have been talking about that, that there are African-American police officers in the community that are policing predominantly an African-American community?

MGRAW: I believe, honestly, the police officers bleed blue. I mean, that's what they do. They all stick together and they're all as one. So, I mean, I don't look at the officer as a black officer or white officer. He's merely an officer, or she.

And for me, I feel that if that job is that important to you and behind your badge you have no animosity, I mean, any type of emotions toward any people as humans, then that's your job. But I feel that with our officers -- I mean, there's no race with them. Like I said, they're merely bleeding blue.

And when it comes to the people, we are all fighting for injustice. I mean, that's what the protests are about. That's what all of this is about. People don't want to see that. They want to see the race car be played. They want to see racism heightened, but it's not that.

And, really, it's anti-white supremacy if anything and understanding that there is a privilege, like I said earlier, and making sure that we address that with our officers, that if I go and kill a cop, I'm going to jail. That's as simple as that. And when these officers shoot me, they're going to find some way to

incriminate my character. So that's what this is about. I mean, it's really making sure that we have an equality across the whole system, period.

MALVEAUX: All right. We have to leave it there --

LAMKIN: And sensitivity --

MALVEAUX: OK. If you could just wrap that, please? Please finish.

LAMKIN: I didn't hear what she said. MALVEAUX: Reverend Lamkin, it's OK. Go ahead and finish. You had a

thought?

LAMKIN: Right, it's more than just diversifying in terms of white and black. For example, whenever a group of kids was arrested at a house party, all the white kids got to call their parents and go home and the black kids got taken to jail. And the excuse that was given is that the black kids could only have their aunts and their grandmothers to call. And understanding that within the community, that's how the family system works, that the aunt and the grandma are just as much a parent as the legal parent.

So, it is deeper than just making sure that people look like the community. It's more about making sure that people understand the community in which they serve.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you so much, both of you, during the holiday weekend, we appreciate your insights.

Again, Reverend Lamkin, Carissa McGraw, we certainly hope the healing begins looking forward. Thank you again.

We've heard a lot about the need for police to change, but what can they do to get back to protecting and serving the community? And are they willing to change? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Ferguson's mayor is launching a new effort to recruit minorities to the police department, which brings us to question number three. Will the Ferguson uproar prompt police departments to re-evaluate, possibly make significant changes to their procedures?

Well, joining me now, defense attorney Brian Claypool, and former Los Angeles Police Officer David Klinger, author of "Into The Kill Zone."

So, Brian, let's talk here first.

Days ago, New York police announced a move to clean up officers' language, right? No more cursing, profanity for officers on patrol. You say a more courteous tone from Officer Wilson might have changed things in Ferguson. How so?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Suzanne, deescalating a situation or defusing a situation should be of paramount concern versus escalating a situation. And I think in the Michael Brown shooting case, if Officer Wilson would have simply pulled up and said, hey, guys, let's talk, where you been, why are you walking in the middle of the street?

Start with that tone versus if you take your car and try to block these young men from walking, and then Officer Wilson's actually pinned inside the car, that automatically escalates the situation.

It's no different, Suzanne, than you and I having a conversation where if you're in a relationship. When you start with a tone that's a little harsher, it puts the other person on the defensive. And in this context, it can escalate and lead to a tragic shooting like this.

MALVEAUX: Well put.

David, let's talk about this. Officer Wilson washed the blood off his own hands before anyone even photographed them. Can we trust that Ferguson police now are going to change their own procedures? We see this whole thing about self-policing. How does that change?

DAVID KLINGER, FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE OFFICER: I couldn't hear exactly, but my understanding is you asked me about the procedures in terms of a post-shooting situation.

MALVEAUX: Sure. The fact the officer washed the blood off his hands. Can we trust the Ferguson police to do something differently moving forward?

KLINGER: Yes, hopefully. I mean, there's no excuse for that. That never should have happened. Inexcusable. That.

The fact Officer Wilson drove himself back to the headquarters, the fact that he booked his own gun into evidence. There was nobody there to supervise him.

This was just a mess. I mean, I teach the stuff around the country, and this should be common procedure all around the country, and my hope is that smaller agencies start getting into the 21st century on this vital issue of ensuring the integrity of a shooting investigation.

MALVEAUX: Brian, do you agree with David here? After Ferguson, do you think that these changes, the police changes, happen at the local level? Do they happen at the national level? Do we need laws or new police procedures even to maybe uniformly change some of this stuff?

CLAYPOOL: Well, that's a good question. I think in Missouri, let's focus on Missouri. It is an officer-friendly state, so I think in a state like Missouri you need to change the laws, because you heard Officer Wilson in his interview.

His comment was, hey, I follow the law. I did my job. So I think what we have to do is change the law because in Missouri, if he's trying to make an arrest, if he thinks, for example, mike brown here is going to commit a felony, or has committed a felony, he can actually deploy deadly force.

The federal standard is different. The officer has to be in imminent fear of grave bodily harm. So that's why Wilson was saying, hey, I did my job, I followed the law. So, we've got to start with the law, number one. I think number two, you really have to work on the mentality of police officers.

Give you a quick example. Calling for backup in most officer-involved shootings would eliminate a death.

I've been in a lot of cases, Suzanne, where tragically within seconds of a suspect being shot and killed, other police officers arrived. Time often is on the side of a police officer. So, we need to teach temperament as well.

MALVEAUX: OK. David, Brian, I want you guys to stay with me, because up next, we're asking this question. Is Tamir Rice the latest martyr for the change of how police keep us safe? Will this 12-year-old's death cause another anguished city to rise up and demand change?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: We want to warn you our next story contains graphic images not appropriate for children. You may want to take them out of the room. At this hour, friends and family, they are gathered for the final public viewing of 12-year-old Tamir Rice. A rookie Cleveland police officer fatally shot Rice as he clutched a toy gun. This happened eight days ago, and his funeral is set for Wednesday.

Well, already, outraged protesters, they're been holding up images of rice and Michael brown which brings us to question number four. Is Cleveland the next Ferguson?

George Howell has more on the Cleveland boy's final moments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This video was recorded on a security camera in a Cleveland park. And it shows Tamir Rice moving in and out of view. Keep in mind, these are the last few moments of this 12-year-old's life video his family want you to see.

First, we see Rice pacing the sidewalk, brandishing what looks to be a weapon. At one point, even taking a two-handed shooting stance, all the while police say he was being watched.

CHIEF ED TOMBA, CLEVELAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: The gentleman sitting in the gazebo is the gentleman that called into our dispatch center.

HOWELL: Here's that initial call to 911.

CALLER: I'm sitting here in the park at West Boulevard by the West Boulevard Rapid Transit Station. And there's a guy in there with a pistol, you know, it's probably fake but he's like pointing it at everybody.

HOWELL: In fact, the caller points out twice, the gun is probably fake.

CALLER: The guy keeps pulling it in and out. It's probably fake, but you know what, he the scaring the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of people.

HOWELL: Here's the clip that shows why the man called 911. The object that looks like a hand gun, we now know is really a toy pellet gun. And Rice seems to point it at this person, whose identity is blurred.

Police say he's also seen here reaching for his cell phone then having a conversation. Minutes later, Rice moves to the gazebo where he's now alone. He's

just minutes before police arrived and now we know exactly what the dispatcher told the responding officers before they arrived. Notice how she never relays the information, that it may be a fake gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody's tied up with priorities. There's a guy sitting on a swing pointing a gun at people.

HOWELL: A few seconds later she describes Rice but again fails to pass along the words the 911 caller used about the gun probably being fake.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the park by the youth center, is a black male sitting on the swings. He is wearing a camouflage hat, a gray jacket with black sleeves. Said he keeps pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people.

HOWELL: What happens next happens very quickly. Officer Frank Garmack driving and Officer Timothy Loman in the passenger's seat.

DEP. CHIEF ED TOMBA, CLEVELAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: The officers ordered him to show his hands and to drop the weapon and the young man pulled the weapon out and that's when the officer fired.

HOWELL: In the dispatcher's audio, you can hear the officer's grim call for help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Radio, shots fired. Male down. Black male. Maybe 20. Black revolver or black handgun. Send EMS this way.

HOWELL: Even as they call for help, the officers still not understanding that they'd shot a 12-year-old boy carrying a toy gun.

TOMBA: This is not an effort to exonerate, it's not an effort to show the public that anybody did anything wrong. This is an obvious tragic event where a young member of our community lost their life. We've got two officers that were out there protecting the public and just had to, you know, do something that nobody wants to do.

HOWELL: George Howell, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Want to bring back my panel to discuss question number four. Is Cleveland the next Ferguson?

Well, former police officer David Klinger, I want to start off with you first because you look at that and it's been reported it was two seconds, right, before that shot was fired by Cleveland Police jumping out of the patrol car and starts immediately firing.

Was there some other way, another option, in that situation that -- those officers were in so that this wouldn't have ended in this fatal shooting?

DAVID KLINGER, FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE OFFICER: In that situation, absolutely not because the officers are confronted with someone pulling a gun. The issue is that the vehicle, the polices vehicle never should have been there. And we have a problem in American policing and we need to address it, and that is that in many places officers get too close to people too fast.

And if you read the transcript of the Darren Wilson testimony, and then you piece everything together with other testimony, that's really where I think the situation went sideways here in Missouri is Darren Wilson got too close too soon. And we could have a long discussion about this, but what it boils down to is this was a tactical failure on the driver officer.

I do not understand why he put the other officer and himself so close. You cannot fault this young rookie who is presented with an individual disobeying a command to show hands instead reaches for a gun. And in that split second, he did the right thing. The problem is that vehicle never should have been so close and therefore, the officer never should have been so close.

They should have found a position of cover at some distance, got out, addressed with verbal commands and hopefully then the young gentleman wouldn't have gone for the gun. This is a tragedy for everybody including the officer that took this kid's life. MALVEAUX: And just to be clear, do you think that the distance that

was created that you're talking about would have allowed them to recognize that it was perhaps a toy gun?

KLINGER: I can't guarantee it, but I guarantee you one thing, it wouldn't have gone down like that. And I've been -- I was on the streets for only about three years but was involved in numerous situations where individuals had guns and I was fortunately trained by some very savvy veteran officers who drove it into my skull you always want to create distance, you never want to get up close unless you absolutely have to.

Unless there's an immediate public threat, officers need to stay back behind cover and then use verbal tactics to try to get people to comply. That doesn't mean they always will. I've had people, when I was on the street, I was behind cover, people would still go for guns. You never know. But it does buy you time.

MALVEAUX: All right. I want to get to Brian here. You're an attorney as well. Critics have said that the Ferguson victim, Michael Brown, that because there was the -- before at the convenience store where the robbery and that there were questions about what had occurred ahead of the killing that Michael Brown in some ways was flawed to become this national symbol.

Do you think that this is a moment, an example, a model in Cleveland's Tamir Rice that people will listen and pay attention because by all accounts it looks like this was just a, you know, reportedly an innocent boy?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Suzanne, I agree with one thing David said, disagree with the other. I agree that the police officer in the Tamir Rice situation should not have driven up right next to Tamir Rice. That's the first thing. But secondly, I disagree with the police practices used with Tamir Rice, and they mirror in many respects what happened with Mike Brown in Ferguson.

And that's what we talked about in the earlier segment which is defuse the situation, not escalate the situation. The temperament of police officers that come into a situation, they're aggressive --

(CROSSTALK)

KLINGER: You cannot wait --

CLAYPOOL: -- instead of deescalate. What they should have done here -- let me finish. Let me finish. What they should have done here is they should have called for immediate backup and contained the perimeter of where this young man was, Suzanne, and then said the following, I am with the Cleveland Police Department, drop your gun. And then have a dialogue with this young man before you shoot.

And secondly, all police officers have access to magnifying glasses on their rifles. They could have easily looked and seen that this is not a gun. But, again, time is on the side of officers, and it shouldn't escalate.

MALVEAUX: And Brian, did you want to respond to that?

KLINGER: I've never heard of a magnifying glass, sir.

MALVEAUX: David, I'm sorry.

KLINGER: You and I disagree completely. We agree that they should have been back. My point, sir, is when you are six, or seven, or eight, or 10 feet away from someone who is pulling a gun, you cannot wait. And for you to criticize the shooting officer for pulling the trigger is wrong.

CLAYPOOL: The shooter never pull --

KLINGER: You and I agree they shouldn't have been that close.

CLAYPOOL: Yes.

KLINGER: That's my point. That's where you and I agree.

CLAYPOOL: Right.

KLINGER: Don't criticize the young officer who's going to spend the rest of his life in pain about taking the life of a young child that he now knows he didn't need to shoot. That's my point.

CLAYPOOL: Yes. Well, he did make a grave mistake. And it gets back to Suzanne's point which is training.

KLINGER: He wasn't the driver, sir. He was a rookie.

CLAYPOOL: Tolerance. Temperament.

KLINGER: He was a -- he was not driving.

CLAYPOOL: You come into a situation like that -- he's a rookie. That's exactly right. He should have pulled up about 30 feet away, called backup, contained the situation. Taken a position of cover. You never jump out of a police car and look at somebody in the face who's got a gun.

KLINGER: He wasn't driving the car, sir.

CLAYPOOL: You stay behind your police car.

KLINGER: He was not driving, sir.

MALVEAUX: All right. I want to ask both of you.

KLINGER: There was a senior officer driving.

MALVEAUX: David. David, if you can hear me here, I want to ask both of you this question here because there are differences in these two cases, but do you think this is a stronger case to take to the country to people who are fighting the protesters and saying, look, there's an injustice that has been done here regarding this young boy, this 12- year-old boy?

KLINGER: The police made a mistake by getting close. I agree with your other guest. They should have stayed back. They should have started a dialogue. That is what I said. The problem is training here. The problem is an officer put his partner too close to an individual with a gun. It's not the rookie's fault for shooting when someone pulls a gun when he's that close. It's the department for not training -- excuse me, superior officers, or training officers in sound tactics.

And that was my point from the beginning. If we look around the country, unfortunately, we need to do a better job of training our officers so they do not rush into situations unless there is an immediate public threat afoot.

MALVEAUX: All right, Brian --

KLINGER: And unless there's an immediate public threat afoot, he needs -- the officers need to stay back. I agree on that one.

MALVEAUX: Brian, last --

KLINGER: But don't criticize the rookie.

MALVEAUX: Last word for you, Brian, real quick.

CLAYPOOL: No -- yes. Ferguson and Tamir Rice in Cleveland validate the fact that police officers need to be a little more calm when they approach a situation. Call for backup. Time's on their side. Have a dialogue. And do not escalate the situation.

MALVEAUX: All right. Brian, David, thank you so much. We got to leave it there. I'm sorry we don't have more time. But we will talk to you again.

KLINGER: Thank you.

CLAYPOOL: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: You know, it's a very controversial and heated topic. And of course, people just looking for answers and solutions to move forward here and make things better.

Ray Rice is the other story here. He took on the NFL for the right to play after he was suspended for hitting and knocking unconscious his fiancee. But now that suspension has been lifted and the question is, will any team want him? Well, that is next on our fast-forward look at the week ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Today's question number five, will an NFL team sign Ray Rice?

The former Baltimore Ravens running back has been reinstated and is now looking for work. The NFL suspended Rice indefinitely and the Ravens released him after video showed him knocking unconscious his then-fiancee, now wife, in a hotel elevator. But the suspension was overturned on Friday.

I want to talk about it with CNN sports contributor and "USA Today" columnist Christine Brennan.

Good to see you as always. Let's talk about this. Could it be possible that Rice could be back on the field this season and who would sign him?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR: Great question, Suzanne. I think the odds are not this season. Anything is possible, but you have to look at, of course, the negative public relations that you would get with any city and any team if he were to be signed. Everyone I think remembers that reaction that week of September, September 8th.

It all bubbled to the surface. It would come right back. And I think that that might be too much for any team, especially as they're going towards the playoffs.

Another big factor for Ray Rice is that he turns 28 in January. So he's not young. He is, you might call him a middle-aged or even trending towards an old running back.

MALVEAUX: Wow.

BRENNAN: He missed, of course, all this season, and he had his worst season last year. So throw all that in the mix and I think it's doubtful. I think there might be a chance for next year, but at this point I would be surprised if he signed this season.

MALVEAUX: And do you think there is room for people, fans who want to forgive him, who want to see him have a second chance and to go on and have a football career?

BRENNAN: I do. And that's a great point. You know, in this country, think about it, what are we if we don't give second chances to people? There are certainly a lot of other athletes, other politicians, people in public life who have had second chances. And if Ray Rice could become a force for good, if he could go and speak to men who have also been involved with -- obviously with abuse, have been abusers.

If he can actually do public service announcements, Suzanne, if he can do those kinds of things, I think there could be a very positive and happy ending to this very sad and horrible story, and from that standpoint, it would be better if he were playing on a team because then his voice, of course, would have more impact.

MALVEAUX: Sure. And let's talk about NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell's decision on this indefinite suspension. Whether or not that was warranted and then it's overturned by this former judge here. Is he in hot water? Is he actually at risk of losing his job, potentially?

BRENNAN: No, I don't think so. Of course, he works at the owners' behest and the owners seem to be very pleased with him and frankly the owners are pleased to not have this be part of the collective bargaining agreement. That is that the commissioner is allowed to make these decisions. Obviously in this case, the arbitrator said he overreached and reinstated Ray Rice, but I think you have to look at this, too, Suzanne, through the prism of the public at large.

September 8th, the day that of course everyone saw that elevator video and -- we were horrified collectively as a nation by that. Well, our view of domestic violence changed from that moment on. And one question that comes to mind is, you know, Roger Goodell, while he made some mistakes, definitely, and the NFL has had some real issues here the last few months, where was the Atlantic City prosecutor?

The grand jury in Atlantic City saw both videotapes. And they basically gave Ray Rice a slap on the wrist. So then we as a nation demand the commissioner of the NFL to start to do more. So he does more obviously. He throws the book at Ray Rice. And now, of course, an arbitrator says, no.

MALVEAUX: Right.

BRENNAN: On second thought you did too much. So what is it? I think it's a fascinating conversation for the nation to have. But I think Roger Goodell is doing just fine with the owners and that's the constituents of course that matter most to him.

MALVEAUX: All right. Christine Brennan, good to see you as always and getting your insights. Really appreciate it.

It used to be an unwritten rule in Washington that the president's children, they are off limits for criticism. Well, now one Republican spokeswoman, she is in arguably big trouble after scolding President Obama's daughters.

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MALVEAUX: A Republican spokeswoman is in big trouble over a Facebook post about the president's daughters. After a Thanksgiving event, she wrote, quote, "Try showing a little class. Rise to the occasion. Dress like you deserve respect, not a spot at the bar."

CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES" host Brian Stelter has the story.

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BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think the story has gained a lot of traction because historically the first daughters, the first sons of presidents, have been, for lack of a better word, off limits. You know, politicians in the media can criticize and scrutinize the adults all they want, but there's been a general sort of sense that people don't go after the children of those presidents. I think that's probably why this has gotten so much attention.

You know, it's interesting that this woman is a communications director. She works with the media. She speaks to the press and the public for Tennessee Congressman Steve Fincher. And yet now she is in this PR nightmare, I would say. And it all started because of her Facebook post, as you said, on Thanksgiving. This was something that she posted in relative obscurity. It was barely noticed until a reporter at the African-American news Web site "The Root" noticed it. That got it a lot of attention. That caused it to go viral.

And now there's been calls for her to be fired. Hash tag. I'm not sure that will actually happen. We haven't heard from the congressman about this over the weekend. They may be trying to wait and see if it just blows over. But it really gets to that point I was making about how the children of presidents have historically been off limits. That was true for George W. Bush. That was true for Bill Clinton. And all into the past as well.

It's one thing to criticize the president, to say as she did that your mother and father don't respect their positions very much or the nation for that matter. It's another thing to address them directly and say try showing a little class. That's what created so much outrage in this case and that's why I think people are now waiting to see what the congressman is going to say.

Back to you.

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MALVEAUX: Thanks. And Lauten did issue an apology soon after saying, "After many hours of prayer, talking to my parents and re-reading my words online, I can see more clearly just how hurtful my words were."

And here's our final question tonight. What will it take to save the rhinos?

CNN's Diana Magnay takes us inside the race to find and relocate rhinos in South Africa's most popular wildlife reserve before they are picked off by poachers. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Above the poaching hot spot, a veterinarian takes aim. This is a dart gun. His goal is to save not to slaughter. A flash of pink on the rump. The hit is good.

On the ground a veterinary team stand by weary around the stunned animal ready with a blindfold as the drugs kick in.

(On camera): So the rhino is darted with a mix of immobilizer and a tranquilizer. And it takes about three to five minutes from the time its hit to get it on the ground and from that moment on the process is incredibly fast.

(Voice-over): Oxygen tubes to help with the breathing. And the horn is micro chipped and crucially for South Africa's anti-poaching endeavors, DNA samples are taken.

MARKUS HOFMEYR, HEAD OF VETERINARY SERVICES: If a rhino doesn't get poached you can actually take a piece of the horn and then link it to a specific carcass.

MAGNAY (voice-over): Then another shot to partially reverse the anesthetic.

(On camera): This is clearly one of the most critical moments to get the rhino up using its own body force having given it a partial reversal of the tranquilizer. We have to make sure that we don't get in the way.

(Voice-over): The team haul the rhino to its feet. And it takes a few ginger steps toward the trailer which will carry it to safer ground in a more intensive protected zone in the Kruger National Park.

This is why. Just a few miles further north, a rhino carcass lies where it was shot some 10 days ago now. The forensics team have had such a backlog of poaching cases it's taken them until now to get here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see that small (INAUDIBLE).

MAGNAY: This was a female rhino. She was pregnant. The fetus like the rest of her long picked away by scavengers. All that's left the skeleton and the skin and a hole where the horn once was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looks like a .375 caliber.

MAGNAY: They find the bullet which killed her but the scene is too old to find out more than that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We suspect that they shot this from over Mozambique.

MAGNAY: Kruger National Park shares a 350-kilometer border with Mozambique. This shabby wiring right beside the carcass all that separates the two countries. It is no deterrent when rhino horn can fetch more than $100,000 per kilogram on the black market. Fueled by insatiable demand from Asia where they wrongly believe that rhino horns can cure diseases like cancer.

General Johan Jooste, who runs the park's anti-poaching operations, estimates there are 15 poaching groups in the park at any one time.

MAJ. GEN. JOHAN JOOSTE, HEAD OF ANTI-POACHING: If I give you a number of last month which was a particularly bad month, we know for a fact that about 600 poachers infiltrated from Mozambique.

MAGNAY: He has transformed Kruger's rangers into military style anti- poaching units but they can only do much. This new push to relocate the rhinos helps, but South Africa has lost a record 120,000 rhinos so far this year.

As long as rhino horn remains a status symbol in Asia and long debunk notion that it has medicinal benefits governs a multi-billion black market, the killing will continue.

This ancient species slaughtered for the horn which for millennia has been its first line of defense.

Diana Magnay, CNN, Kruger National Park, South Africa.

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MALVEAUX: Coming up next, two hours of "THIS IS LIFE" with Lisa Ling followed by Dr. Sanjay Gupta's reports that could change the way you think about pot. Don't miss "WEED" at 9:00 Eastern and "WEED 2" at 10:00.

I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Thanks for joining us this weekend.

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