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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

President Announces Executive Order on Immigration; Interview with Rep. Raul Grijalva; Astrid Silva: DREAMer and Immigration Activist; Awaiting the Grand Jury Decision in Ferguson

Aired November 21, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning once again to you all. I'm Michaela Pereira. John Berman will be back on Monday.

We begin this hour with breaking news. House Republicans have filed a lawsuit against President Obama and his, quote, "unilateral actions" on health care. Speaker John Boehner released this statement. Let me read it to you.

"Time after time, the president has chosen to ignore the will of the American people and rewrite federal law on his own without a vote of Congress. That's not the way of our system of government was designed to work.

If this president can get away with making his own laws, future presidents will have the ability to as well. The House has an obligation to stand up for the constitution and this's exactly why we are but pursuing this course of action."

We knew this was coming, they had threatened this. Let's take our two correspondents joining me, Athena Jones and Michelle Kosinski. First, Athena, to you. They threatened this. What do we know about the timing?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They threatened this for several months. The House of Representatives passed legislation at the end of July, allowing them to bring in this suit but it's been held back by trying to get lawyers -- the lawyer team to bring it officially and so now that has happened.

They're bringing it on two bases. They want to challenge the president's decision to unilaterally change the decision they say to unlawfully waive the employer mandate. That's the mandate that required companies of a certain size provide health insurance. He twice waived that. They're challenging that. That's the first basis.

The second basis of the lawsuit is what they say the president's decision to illegally transfer funds to insurance companies. This is part of the cost-sharing to reduce deductibles and copays to the people they're insuring and the government has been transferring money to those insurers to give them a rebate for providing those reduced fees.

The government is set to pay out $3 billion to these insurance companies over this year, and if they continue this practice they'll be paying out over $175 billion over the next ten years.

The Republicans in Congress say that they did not pass legislation -- Congress did not pass legislation to appropriate these funds and so that -- those payments to insurance companies are inappropriate.

Those are the two reasons they're bringing this lawsuit, Michaela.

PEREIRA: To you, Michelle. The White House has known this was coming for a while. What's their response now that the suit has been filed?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Many people have been wondering what's become of this lawsuit. I mean, it's been sort of floating around out there.

What's been happening is that two law firms backed out of handling it and Boehner just was able to line up another lawyer, a constitutional lawyer, a legal scholar to handle it. That was just few days ago. Now, boom, they've filed it.

So at this point the White House hasn't responded. This just happened and now the president has taken off only minutes ago on his trip to Las Vegas with several administration officials. We know that this question is going to be posed to them during the trip and we'll get back. So we expect them to react to it, at least, very soon.

But when you look at the process of this, it's been going on for months now. The White House at the time that it was voted on in Congress, in the House, they called it a political stunt, and lately we've been talking a lot about lawsuits because there have been Republican threats to sue in sort of a similar way on a somewhat similar basis over the president's executive action on immigration.

And what the White House has said is they take a dim view of such actions, Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Athena Jones, Michelle Kosinski, we'll be watching and waiting for the official White House response. Thank you so much.

I want to turn now to Arizona Congressman Raul Grijalva, a Democrat. He is a Democrat. He represents the two -- and I have to get your reaction to this breaking news over the lawsuit against the ObamaCare.

REP. RAUL GRIJALVA (D), ARIZONA: They found a lawyer that would file the suit. Two other distinguished firms rejected it. I really think that the lawsuit is not going to go anywhere.

And they threatened to do it, they had to do it, and finally Boehner found a lawyer. And we can all at some point find a lawyer that will take any case.

And it's frivolous. It's the same kind of harassment we had in the House, 53 times, to repeal the Affordable Care Act, efforts to defund it within the budget, on and on and on.

So it's the same campaign. And now they (inaudible) a legal strategy ironically coming right at the heels of the executive order announcement last night by the president regarding immigration.

I find the timing curious, but I think we'll see that same pathway on the immigration executive order as well, legal challenges.

PEREIRA: You do expect, you do anticipate legal challenges on the immigration plan?

GRIJALVA: I do. But I think what the president did was brave. What the president did was smart. It did not cover everyone that should be covered with immigration reform. That's a legislative permanent fix that needs to a occur.

But what he did with the executive order is keep it narrow enough that it is constitutionally defensible, legally defensible and very confident that what he did and what he's going to do with that executive order today in Las Vegas is going to pass the legal muster and going to pass the constitutional test.

PEREIRA: I want to play a little bit of sound for you of what John Boehner had to say a little earlier about the president's immigration plan. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: With this action, the president has chosen to deliberately sabotage any chance of enacting bipartisan reforms that he claims to seek. And as I told the president yesterday, he's damaging the presidency itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Strong words from Boehner. A White House spokesman has said that Obama's immigration plan is legally unassailable.

Does that give you the confidence that you need? Do you expect Republicans to push through this anyway?

GRIJALVA: Yes, I think the legal challenge, they're going to have to examine it as they did the health care.

I think they're going to find they're on very, very weak ground and it will be more a political stunt than it will be a real legal challenge. It's unfortunate that Boehner used those words.

You know, the president received criticism, Michaela, for postponing this executive order, for waiting until after the elections from me and many members of the Democrats of the House of Representatives, and in doing so took that heat, waiting for Boehner, waiting for Republicans to move on some level of comprehensive reform.

They haven't done it 51 days after the Senate passes its bipartisan bill. It's still sitting at Boehner's desk and won't be brought to a vote. So it's crocodile tears of Boehner talking about the president but meaning nothing. We have created a worse situation in this broken system which is the immigration. PEREIRA: Before I lose you, I want to ask you one question because you

know you are, of course, a Congressman from Arizona, you represent the Tucson area. We know this is a gigantic deal in your state. What are you hearing from the people there when they call you, when they write your office? What are they saying to you?

GRIJALVA: You have your level of opposition to anything President Obama does. We received that. But generally it's been supportive and a lot of question, specific questions about who is affected and who isn't.

And in Arizona, about 196,000 individuals and families will be able to come out from the shadow, will be able to work legally with a permit and will be able to be unified with their families.

That is the plus and the reaction we're receiving the president's executive order, particularly the last four minutes, particularly the last four minutes were very moving and responsive.

PEREIRA: Raul Grijalva, thank you for making time for us today.

Ahead @THISHOUR, one young woman who came to this country with nothing, the president gave her quite a shout out in his speech last night. That's Astrid Silva. We'll ask you what she thinks of the immigration reform plan ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mom qualifies but it will leave a lot of people out. But it's some sort of relief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm really happy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a lot of people in this country that just aren't willing to work at all and, you know, we need people here that's willing to work.

And if that's where we have to get them, maybe there's some of these others that need to go home that don't want to work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not including my mom. My community is still going to get deported. The deportation machine will still be existing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not a victory yet. We have to keep working for the rest of our family that are just here working trying to take care of us to be covered and protected.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Every cause could use a poster child. President Obama has put a face to his -- Astrid Silva. She is an activist and co-founder of Dream Big Las Vegas. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Astrid was brought to America when she was four years old. Her only possessions were a cross, her doll, and the frilly dress she had on.

When she started school, she didn't speak any English. Today Astrid sill value is a college student working on her third degree.

Are we a nation that kicks out a striving, hopeful immigrant like Astrid? Or are we a nation that finds a way to welcome her in?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Astrid Silva joins us from Las Vegas. I know Astrid didn't know the president was going to mention her but realized when he was talking about the cross you were wearing, that was a shout out for you.

Hello to you, Astrid, great to talk to you again. I understand you're set to meet with the president today when he's in Nevada. What's your message for him?

ASTRID SILVA, IMMIGRATION ACTIVIST: Hi, thank you for having me. More than anything, to tell him that our families continue to need relief and that we need to make sure that people realize that we are families, we are not just numbers. We're not a quota. We need to continue pushing for something that's going to be permanent.

PEREIRA: And in terms of that, this is affecting your own family. I understand there was a big sigh of relief at your house regarding your dad.

SILVA: There definitely is. My dad has a stay of removal and it would end in January, which means that he's eligible for deportation and thanks to this, we now know that these aren't going to be our last holidays together, that we are going to be able to go to bed at night and know that immigration isn't going to come knock on our door.

PEREIRA: It was important for the president to put a real face on this because, again, we have been trying to talk about the fact, here at CNN, that these are real people. It's not just about policy and law, these are real people's lives being affected. To that end, there are people that are not happy with this plan. For example, some immigrants in your very own community who came legally to the United States are feeling that this is kind of unfair. What's your response to them, Astrid?

SILVA: Well, I think that the entire system needs be fixed, the entire immigration system, because we need to be able to monitor, but not only do that, we need to be able to make it so that the people that are entering legally have a speedier process so that they aren't waiting 14 years to petition for a brother or sister and it just has a lot to do with going back to Congress and actually getting in the bill, that's not only going to help those families, but help all families that are in the country.

PEREIRA: We know that Republicans, certainly, are probably the loudest group that are really unhappy with the president's executive order, the fact that he is issuing this executive order. They're not happy with the plan as it stands. Are you concerned about how they potentially could derail this?

SILVA: Well, I mean, they're unhappy with it but they had an ability to fix it. They had 512 days to actually pass an immigration bill, and yet they never brought it up on the floor. But now they're going to have an opportunity to do it and if they choose to do it they can fix all of this for all of our families.

PEREIRA: So today, tell me what's ahead. You have kind of a big day ahead of you, don't you, Astrid?

SILVA: It's definitely a big day. I'm very excited, more than anything, for our community to be together on such an important day and more, it's very important that it's happening here in our city, in Las Vegas, where we've been working very hard and I know that we're going to be joined by a lot of cities that are watching together all over the country. And it's going to be a great day.

PEREIRA: All right, Astrid, thank you so much for giving us your reaction. On a total side note, how hot is it in Las Vegas today?

SILVA: It is very cold today, actually. Well, it's cold in our terms.

PEREIRA: Okay.

SILVA: But it's chilly.

PEREIRA: All right, Las Vegas cold is a very different cold now that I'm out here in the Northeast, boy, oh boy. Thanks so much for joining me, Astrid. We appreciate it. For those of you at home, I'm curious about your thoughts. Do you support President Obama's immigration plan by executive order or do you oppose it? Tweet me, @THISHOUR.

Ahead here, we'll talk about Ferguson, Missouri. We know that gun sales are up, we also know stores are shuttered and we know tensions remain high. That city bracing for a grand jury decision on whether to indict Officer Darren Wilson for killing Michael Brown. That decision could come at any moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: The tense wave might soon be over. A grand jury could decide today whether to indict Officer Darren Wilson in the death of teenager Michael Brown. Ferguson, Missouri is on edge, as are many other communities. Just last night in Ferguson, demonstrators clashed with police.

Attorney General Eric Holder is trying to head off any widespread violence. We understand he has issued new guidance for police nationwide to respect the rights of protesters while maintaining order. But he also has a message for those demonstrators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The most successful and enduring movements for change are those that adhere to non-aggression and non- violence. And so I ask all those who seek to lend their voice to important causes and discussions and who seek to elevate these vital conversations to do so in a way that respects the gravity of their subject matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Another new development in the case, CNN has learned that Officer Wilson could resign and that he could resign as early as today, reportedly to ease the pressure on his fellow officers. I want to turn now to Legal Analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney Mark O'Mara. I appreciate you always joining us to talk through this stuff for us. Again, we're learning that Officer Wilson could resign, only if he is not charged in Michael Brown's death. I'm curious what you make of that development.

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: First of all, the timing is strange. Why that would come out yesterday, I have no idea. If he's going to make a decision based upon the result that may come out in the next couple days, wait until the result comes out. I'm not exactly sure why that was leaked or released or whatever. It's also strange because if he gets indicted, probably the Ferguson Police Department is going to have to fire him or have him resign anyway, because he's now under indictment for a murder case. And if he's not released, not charged, then he'll make whatever decision. I said awhile back that I don't think he can ever be in law enforcement again, just because he's the focus of a case that's now going to go on for a decade.

PEREIRA: We know that Michael Brown Sr. released a video yesterday calling for calm, no matter what the grand jury decides. If there's no indictment, I'm curious, what other recourse does this family mourning the loss of their son, what recourse do they have? Or do they have any at all?

O'MARA: They don't have much. There's always the possibility of a civil lawsuit. The criminal is one venue, a civil lawsuit they can sue Ferguson Police Department, Darren Wilson himself, for taking the life of their son without civil justification. But of course, if he's not indicted, then the thought is that his self-defense was accepted as being necessary and that's going to be a very difficult burden to overcome. There is the side issue of a civil rights violation that they could sue him for, as well. But quite honestly, without an indictment the Brown family is going to have to deal with their mourning without a lot of relief from the court system.

PEREIRA: And that is such a hard proposition for so many of them, I know. So many people affected by this, not just the community, but every family member you think about that, how one person, all these people, that person's life has touched. I'm curious, looking to Officer Wilson now. As the laws are -- are there any laws that exist that potentially protect him or shield him?

O'MARA: Yes, as he acted in the -- as a duty of his law enforcement, then he's sort of protected and immune as a law enforcement officer, so there's that protection. If it is found that he acted in self- defense, that offers another level of protection. So he is quite insulated from civil liability, as long as he acted properly. And of course, that's the whole question. Don't forget, the grand jury saying he's not going to be indicted doesn't cover him fully for civil liability, but it's a step along the way.

PEREIRA: And any further thoughts on the timing of the decision? We sort of are hearing Sunday, today. I mean, are you hearing anything further today?

O'MARA: Everyone is planning for Sunday, because it seems as though they're done, or getting close to being done. Of course, if they come up with an issue they're not resolved about today, we could all be sitting waiting when they decide to get back together Monday and finish out. So the plan is for Sunday, but that's our plan. The grand jury may have their own plan.

PEREIRA: They very well may. And let's just hope, let's hope against hope that everyone keeps cool heads and justice will prevail. Mark O'Mara, thanks so much for joining me. Have a great weekend, appreciate it.

O'MARA: Enjoy yours.

PEREIRA: Ahead here, another woman stepping forward with allegations against Bill Cosby. Seems like a broken record, doesn't it? With all of the controversy surrounding the comic, we're going to take a look at the woman by his side, his wife Camille. Her reaction right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)