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DR. DREW

Bill Cosby Guilty in the Court of Public Opinion; Rape Accusations Continue Surfacing Against Cosby;

Aired November 20, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Bill Cosby, guilty in the court of public opinion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Yet another woman is coming forward and accusing Bill Cosby of sexual assault.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Social media is taking sides. Celebrities and others are sounding off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA BOWMAN, ALLEGES SHE WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED BY BILL COSBY: I would wake up completely confused, half dressed, and knowing that my body had

been touched without my permission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: What should the comedian do now? Let us get started.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher. And, the list keeps growing. Women are coming forward accusing Bill Cosby of having

drugged and/or raped them. Cosby, however, remains silent, as his lawyers do the talking. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST OF DR. DREW ON CALL: Marty Singer, his attorney, and he is responding to Janice Dickinson`s claim, saying it is a

lie. He says the book`s publisher will vouch for the fact that no attorney for Cosby ever tried to squash the alleged rape story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANICE DICKINSON, SUPERMODEL ACCUSING OF BEING DRUGGED AND RAPED BY COSBY: I do not care what about Cosby or networks or anybody says. I am -- you

will hear me. I will not stop. I am a woman. I am confident and I am an American. And, it happened to me and that is my truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELVIN WASHINGTON, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Is it difficult to penetrate their team that is around them, their entourage, their lawyers, their business

people, publicists?

JOAN TARSHIS, WOMAN ACCUSING OF BEING DRUGGED AND PRAED BY COSBY: The lawyers and the money. And, who am I -- I mean, the mind boggles. What

would I have to gain?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Thank you to "Entertainment Tonight" for that video. Joining us to discuss, Brian Copeland, talk show host, KGO Radio in San Francisco,

author of "The Jewelry Box: A Memoir of Christmas," available next week on Amazon; Anahita Sedaghatfar from Anahitalive.com, Evy Pompouras, Law

Enforcement Analyst, former special agent secret service. Sam, let us review the accusers we know of now.

SCHACHER: OK. Because it is becoming a lengthy list, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: I would imagine that some people are confused out there.

PINSKY: I am confused.

SCHACHER: OK. So, we Joan Tarshis. She was the --

PINSKY: We spoke to her yesterday.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: And, at the time, she was an aspiring comedy writer. She says she was drugged and raped twice when she was 19. Then we have Tamara

Green, model in her 20s, says she was drugged and he tried to rape her.

Janice Dickinson was in her late 20s when she alleges drugs and rape. At 17, we have Bunny actress, Barbara Bowman, says Cosby sexually assaulted

her numerous times. Then there is Andrea Constand who was 31 when she said she was drugged and raped --

PINSKY: And, she had a lawsuit, did she not?

SCHACHER: She did have a lawsuit. They settled. She also claims that there were 13 additional other victims. Then there is Beth Ferrier. She

said that she was drugged and wonders why her bra was unhooked when she woke up. She said that they had a consensual affair. OK?

PINSKY: OK. So, she was a participant in that one?

SCHACHER: That is what she -- yes.

PINSKY: So, why does that come up on a rape list?

SCHACHER: Well, just because you are in a relationship with someone, if this is true, does not mean that you consent every single time. OK?

PINSKY: So, something happened there?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: And, then we have the newest one that we have all heard about is the Carla Hulk --

PINSKY: Carla Hulk, yes.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I want to tell you about that.

SCHACHER: Lou Ferrigno`s -- Carla -- OK, that is coming up. We are going to have more details on that.

PINSKY: Well, right now, in fact.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: She is, again, as I mentioned, this is Carla Ferrigno who is married to Lou Ferrigno, the Incredible Hulk. She called in to KFI Radio

in Los Angeles last night and she spoke about what happened after a game of pool. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CARLA FERRIGNO, LATEST ACCUSER OF BILL COSBY FOR BEING DRUGGED AND RAPED: He walks over to me and grabbed me. I thought he was just going to take it

out of my hand. He grabbed me, pulls me like really tight to him, kisses me in the mouth like really, really rough. And, I -- you know, I was a

tough girl. I just took my hands and I pushed him away and I said, "What are you doing?"

(END AUIO CLIP)

PINSKY: Now, Anahita she was a Playboy Bunny at the time. She is not accusing rape. It is sort of an unwanted sexual contact. Do you feel like

Bill Cosby`s attorneys are handling this thing properly?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I, absolutely, do, Dr. Drew. That is a great question and you asked earlier, what should Bill Cosby do? I

think he should continue to keep his mouth shut because women --

PINSKY: Well, hold on, hold on. No. Wait a second. Now, you as an attorney, I am used to attorneys saying that in order to avoid liability

and avoid civil expense, but this statute has run out on these so-called alleged crimes.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: Why would the attorneys be saying, be quiet? Why would not they hire a publicist that knows how to address these issues?

SDAGHATFAR: Because I think he needs to be quiet not just for, you know -- for the legal issues but also from a PR perspective, Dr. Drew. Because

here is why. He already denied these allegations in the past. He said none of this is true. His lawyers made a statement saying all of these

allegations are false.

And, you know any statement that he would make, Dr. Drew, people would dissect every word, analyze every word, criticize and say, "Oh, you did not

say this." "Oh, you said this." No good can come from his speaking. I think that he is absolutely doing the right thing by being quiet."

PINSKY: I do not know.

SEDAGHATFAR: Let his attorney do the speaking.

PINSKY: All right. Well, Brian, you are saying yes. I am not so sure. If he can frame it in such a way that we can understand what was going on

in his life at the time, maybe things are different now --

SEDAGHATFAR: People would say a state --

BRIAN COPELAND, TALK SHOW HOST/KGO RADIO SHOW HOST: It is a no win.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes. Exactly.

COPELAND: It is an absolute no-win situation. Remember when Woody Allen wrote that long rebuttal to the charges against him several months ago? It

did not change anybody`s mind. People who thought he was guilty, still thought he was guilty.

People who did not think he was guilty said, well, he cleared himself here. Plus, Mr. Cosby also runs the risk of opening himself up to a defamation

suit if he says these women are liars.

PINSKY: Oh, geez. All right, now. In 2006, now the people have been taking aim at Janice Dickinson, speaking of defamation. Poor Janice has

been in the cross hairs, although we see her speaking out very vigorously now on public media.

We found an interview in 2006 by Howard Stern, on the Howard Stern Show, that Janice Dickinson did and she discussed this. Now, the audio is from

sound called, 2006. She begins talking about this. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Did you turn down Bill Cosby?

DICKINSON: Bill Cosby was the only guy I could not write about in the book because Harper Collins is afraid of lawsuits.

STERN: But, what happened?

DICKINSON: Truly.

STERN: He got you?

DICKINSON: (Inhales)

STERN: So, he nailed you?

DICKINSON: (Clears throat)

STERN: You had sex with Bill Cosby?

DICKINSON: He was married. You are so funny.

STERN: You are saying that the book company will not allow you to write about certain people?

DICKINSON: Too afraid. Too afraid of that one. Would not touch that one. And, I do not want to get near that, because I do not have the Shekels that

you do or the Cosby does. I am afraid that something is going to come out --

STERN: Are you -- I do not -- I do not know anything about this. How did it even come out?

DICKINSON: The guy is a bad guy. Let me just say that. He is not a nice guy. He preys on women that just come out of rehab, I will say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: No comment from Harper Collins. And, a reminder that Cosby`s attorney, Marty Singer, has said Janice`s rape claim is a, quote, "lie."

He also pointed out the inconsistencies in her story over time, though -- Brian, that is pretty much consistent with what she is saying now.

COPELAND: Yes. It is. And, you know, I have real issues with this for a couple of reasons. Let me start by saying, first of all that I am not

going to say these women are not telling the truth, and if he did in fact do these things he needs to be held accountable.

However, I think the problem is, is that people are confusing allegations with facts. You know, 30 years ago, there were a series of rapes in my

area and the description was a generic African-American male. And, I would not cooperate, so they said my silence made me look guilty.

And, they told me that I have been -- the authorities told me I had been positively identified by two of the victims as the rapist. Now, what saved

my behind was that on two of the dates of the rapes I was performing at comedy clubs in the bay area in front of 200 witnesses.

The third date, I had a ticket stub from a concert I went to. So, my question is this is that what would have happened if I had I not been

definitively cleared and they had not been able to charge me?

SEDAGHATFAR: That is right.

COPELAND: Now, I am a public figure --

PINSKY: And, now we have social media, Evy, when these things take off --

COPELAND: Right.

PINSKY: And, the truths are what are being said on social media rather than anything that is substantiated necessarily.

COPELAND: Exactly. Exactly. You know, where is the presumption of innocence?

PINSKY: Evy.

COPELAND: I mean I got to tell you. I know women -- and then this number of women, it is very, very troubling.

PINSKY: Yes.

COPELAND: And, I am not going to say that I do not believe them, but there is no proof yet.

PINSKY: Evy?

EVY POMPOURAS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I want to say one thing. It is a fact that the majority of rapes are not reported and the majority of rapes

are not done by complete strangers. They are committed by people who know their victims.

PINSKY: That is true.

POMPOURAS: The reason they go unreported is because these women in some way, shape or form know their offenders. They know their date rapes,

people that they look up to, family members, whatever. So, I want to keep that in mind. A lot of people are critiquing these women and saying, "Why

did they wait for so long?"

A lot of women do not speak up because they are afraid. That is a fact. So, we need to keep that under consideration. And, you also have not one,

not two, but 15 women. And, I cannot imagine how many more there might be.

A lot of women, just because it is Bill Cosby and because this is becoming a bit of a show, so to speak, they may not want to get involved. They may

be like, "You know what? There is enough women that stepped out. I do not want to get involved in this.

PINSKY: All right. Ahead, Cosby and his wife, Camille and their very private 50-year marriage, we will get into that. And, later, another

alleged victim comes forward. Hear what she is saying tonight about Bill Cosby. And, some of these allegations are fairly intense. Back with them

after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANNIBAL BURESS, COMEDIAN/ACTOR: Pull your pants up, black people. I was on T.V. in the `80s. I can talk down to you because I had a successful

sitcom.

Yeah, but you raped women, Bill Cosby. So, it kinda brings you down a couple notches.

I do not curse on stage. Well, yeah, you are a rapist, so --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam. Let us bring in the behavior bureau. Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox; Spirit,

psychotherapist/T.V. host, Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal."

That was comedian, Hannibal Buress. The clip was recently posted on YouTube and it went viral. It seemed to be sort of the spark point, you

know? The starting point of so much of this controversy and the scandal around Bill Cosby. The reaction has been swift and strong. Sam, give me a

timeline on all this.

SCHACHER: OK. And, you are right, Dr. Drew. That is exactly what kind of unravel --

PINSKY: It is sort of the flashpoint.

SCHACHER: Yes. Absolutely.

PINSKY: Now, a couple weeks before, though, Bill Cosby was canceled on Queen Latifah. Did you know about that?

SCHACHER: That was after.

PINSKY: It was after.

SCHACHER: Yes. So, I am so glad we have this timeline, because you are very --

PINSKY: I am way off.

SCHACHER: OK. This is clearly for you. So, October 16th, Hannibal Buress calls Cosby a rapist in that comedy act. We just saw that. Then have on

October 31st, where you are just referring to, cancels Queen Latifah talk show appearance. Then we have November 10th, that internet meme.

Remember, there was a number of those memes.

PINSKY: Describe what that was, because that really --

SCHACHER: OK. So, basically --

PINSKY: Is that the same that he responded to?

SCHACHER: Well, yes. His team put out a picture --

PINSKY: They put out the memes.

SCHACHER: -- well, they put out a picture saying, "Hey, guys, all the fans, why do not you caption this." That what is the meme is. Well, guess

what? It backfired and that is when people started referring to him as a rapist. OK? So, he thought he would probably have some cutesy captions.

Not so much. Then we have --

PINSKY: Like yellow pudding or something.

SCHACHER: Yes. Exactly.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: Then we have November 15th, cancels Letterman appearance. Then, we have November 18th, the Netflix postponed his comedy special. Then

November 19th, NBC cancelled that upcoming show that he was in development with, with NBC. And, then finally on November 19th, T.V. land removes the

Cosby reruns from their programming lineup.

PINSKY: Some news just came up today that really put legs around this -- behind this story again. It is a clip from an interview back in November.

The reporter -- An AP reporter asked Bill Cosby about the allegations we have been discussing here. He responds by saying, quote, "I do not talk

about that." The interview ends, but then the cameras kept on rolling and they have dug up the footage. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: Now, can I get something from you?

BRETT ZONGKER, ASSOCIATED PRESS REPORTER: What is this?

COSBY: That none of that will be shown.

ZONGKER: I -- I cannot promise that myself, but you did not say anything.

COSBY: I know I did not say anything. But, I am asking your integrity that since I did not want to say anything, but I did answer you in terms of

I do not want to say anything of what value will it have?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Danine, to me, this speaks of almost a generational problem where "Hey, you know, this is the A.P. chum, we do not talk about the unsavory

stuff. You are a professional. You would not ask me something like that." As opposed to "Hey, it is game on, guys." It is the age of social media."

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: See. And, that is the thing, Dr. Drew. It seems like that whole approach of, you know, I am not going to

dignify these allegations with a response because they are beneath me." That is old school. I think that, actually, he needs to kind of go forth

with this, you know? And --

PINSKY: Address it.

MANETTE: -- and address these things.

PINSKY: Yes.

MANETTE: Right in front of everybody. And, I understand what his attorneys are saying. I understand people that are saying, you know, that

he should be quiet or whatever.

But, I think the best defense is a good offense. And, the fact that he is just sitting here like a sitting duck, I mean it just leads people to

believe that he is not telling the truth and I am one of those people, honestly.

PINSKY: And, Spirit, the fact that we have all formed a mob now on Twitter is not helping things, is it?

SPIRIT CLANTON, PSYCHOTHERAPIST/T.V. HOST: It is not helping things at all. But, you know, even scarier than that, when I watched that interview,

did you see his wife`s reaction? This for them is just business as usual. And, that is what scares me the most. I do not think there is anything

that he could say that is going to change this. I just do not.

PINSKY: And, Spirit, there is something that bothers me, is that there is so much -- you know, he did not, I guess, did not ask to become America`s

father, but that is what he became. He puts himself out in the public as a child development specialist.

He tells African-Americans how they ought to behave, males. And, he has this lexicon of behavior that if you pulled out any one or two of the

pieces, it is still reprehensible. If you said, "OK. He never drugged those girls." That was false. Well, still he groomed them and that is all

well documented.

Well, he did not rape them, but he had some assault. These are allegations but some of them are not allegations. Some of them are not. Some of them

are just -- the fact that some of them had settled.

I got documents where he settled for somebody`s same kind of behaviors. It is so much that any piece of it is all so unsavory, given who we thought he

was I think is what so much of this is about.

CLANTON: It is chilling. It is chilling. And, if you go back to -- let us talk about his own story. 1969, it is true, it is true, when he is

telling the story about being 13 and being exposed to "Spanish Fly" and what that can do and what it does to women and what you do if you saw a

whole lot of women that you were excited about. I mean it is really scary. And, it is very telling.

PINSKY: Yes, but how about the culture in our country at the time where everyone, "Oh, that is really funny. Way to go." Danine, how about that?

" That is so clever of you."

MANETTE: Yes.

PINSKY: "Women are such crazy creatures. Are not they?"

MANETTE: And, keep in mind, Dr. Drew. He is an actor. He is an actor by profession, and he plays roles. So, of course, he is going to be good at

knowing how to play a role. That is what actors do.

And, as far as the culture back then, that was a time when Luke raped Laura on general hospital. They got married and they were America`s couple and

nobody had a problem with that.

PINSKY: Yes. Right.

MANETTE: So, it was a whole different story.

PINSKY: Right? You understand, Sam?

SCHACHER: Yes.

MANETTE: They were the cover of the Time Magazine.

SCHACHER: That happened in -- what was it? The late `80s or the early `90s, in breakfast?

MANETTE: Yes. He raped her.

SCHACHER: Not the Breakfast club but "Sixteen Candles" also, the movie I love where the nerd ends up getting the popular girl intoxicated and ten

have sex with her. That is rape too.

PINSKY: Wendy, I see you are winding up for a punch here. Go ahead.

WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I am just thinking. I am always looking for, "What good can come of this?"

PINSKY: Yes.

WALSH: Really. What good can we -- Do we want to see this old man go to jail?

PINSKY: No. It is not going to happen.

WALSH: No. Of course not.

MANETTE: You know, that would not happen.

WALSH: But, the good is, that we are having this conversation and now young men can understand what it is to obtain consent.

SCHACHER: Right.

WALSH: And, here are the simple rules. No is not -- the only thing that means no means is no. The only thing that means yes is yes.

PINSKY: Hold on. How about -- by the way -- wait, Wendy.

WALSH: Yes.

PINSKY: Wendy.

WALSH: Yes.

PINSKY: None of that means anything if your partner is intoxicated.

WALSH: Exactly.

SCHACHER: Thank you.

WALSH: You cannot give consent if you are intoxicated. So, as you know, there is a law in the state of California now that in college campuses if

they receive federal funding, before you have sex, you have to get either verbal or written consent.

PINSKY: Wow.

WALSH: So, now, we are teaching this generation of young people about how to get consent. And, by the way, if somebody gives consent for one sexual

act, it does not mean they have given consent for the next sexual act or the next stage.

PINSKY: It is just -- the whole thing makes me sad that women have to fight for, you know, men to behave just decently. That is all.

WALSH: But, this is women in progress.

PINSKY: Yes, Wendy. It is progress, but you know our friend Janice Dickinson is having to sit in the cross hairs of all sorts of

controversies.

CLANTON: There is no progress because there is no justice here.

PINSKY: Well --

CLANTON: This is the same story. If I have enough money and enough popularity, then I can do whatever I want for an entire lifetime --

PINSKY: But you cannot.

CLANTON: -- for a decade.

PINSKY: But, Spirit you cannot --

CLANTON: With no consequence.

PINSKY: -- no longer. In fact, I worry about -- listen --

CLANTON: What is going to happen here?

PINSKY: Well, you know, we are such a mob now on social media. I worry it can be wielded in ways that could do harm. I mean this has affected this

guy`s ability to have a job. I guess -- Is that good?

(CROSSTALKS)

CLANTON: Cry me a river. He has millions of dollars that he has acquired in his lifetime.

PINSKY: No, I think I believe that is correct, but you know we are doing it without a system of justice. It is a mob doing this and it is, you

know, intervening in his life. I think it is right, but here is a statement first from Cosby`s attorney.

It reads, quote, "Decade old discredited allegations against Mr. Cosby have resurfaced. The fact that they are being repeated does not make tem true.

Mr. Cosby does not intend to dignify these allegations with any comment."

And, that is what they have stood by all along. And, we, the five of us, are we all agreeing that what we think he should do is step up and say

something.

WALSH: I do not agree, actually.

PINSKY: Wendy does not.

WALSH: I do not agree.

PINSKY: You think?

WALSH: I think as a PR and legal move, he is doing the right thing, just shut up.

PINSKY: All right.

CLANTON: I agree. He needs to stay quiet. We will never know the truth.

PINSKY: All right. We will get more into this damage control issue and what he should do now. And, later, hear from Roseanne Bar get her take on

the Cosby scandal, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): Do you think it is about time that Cosby speaks up and dos say something?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: Should he speak make this public statement addressing all these allegations?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (1): Say nothing is the best thing he can continue to do.

BALDWIN: So, many people out there thinks the silence is deafening. It sort of implies you have something to hide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: We are talking about a man of 77 years old.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST OF "TONIGHT": Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Maybe he is not all that comfortable existing in this 2014 media.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): Well, that is really strange because we know that he had the Netflix special coming up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Yes. Good point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (2): He is still doing standups.

HOWARD BAGMAN, VICE CHAIRMAN, REPUTATION.COM: The court of public opinion certainly seems to have rendered its judgment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (3): I want to hear from him, not from his lawyer, not from his PR specialist. I want to hear from Bill Cosby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Brian, Anahita and Danine. We are talking about these persistent allegations of rape against Bill Cosby. Now, Brian, I

want to go to you first.

COPELAND: OK.

PINSKY: You are an apologist for all this, right? I mean you think having been in these cross hairs yourself --

COPELAND: No. not at all.

PINSKY: Well, go ahead. What is your opinion?

COPELAND: OK. Well, I am not an apologist for it at all as I said in my opening remarks. I said that I am not going to say these women are not

telling the truth.

And, if in fact he is guilty, then he needs to be held accountable for it. What I simply said is that we have a lot of allegations but not a lot of

facts yet. And, people have rendered their judgment without having the facts.

PINSKY: But, Brian --

COPELAND: That is all I am saying.

PINSKY: Brian, it is not going to go into a court. It is just is not, because the statue --

COPELAND: Of course it is not.

PINSKY: Well, Anahita, is that right? The statute has run out of this. This is not going to court --

COPELAND: Yes. The statue has run out.

SEDAGHATFAR: But, that happens in every case, Dr. Drew. Even when the statute of limitations have not run out, even we are talking about a case

in the media that is in the court system. People rush to judgment and they make their decision based on allegations.

COPELAND: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: That is very problematic. And, Dr. Drew, you asked me on Tuesday if I were defending Bill Cosby, what would I do? How would I

defend him? And, I said the first thing the defense strategy will be is to try to discredit the witnesses.

And, we saw today, that is exactly what Marty Singer, who is Bill Cosby`s attorney did. And, by the way, Marty is a Pit bull. I worked against him

on some cases.

PINSKY: Did you win?

SEDAGHATFAR: No comment. I always win, Dr. Drew.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: You said -- I am just trying to catch you on that one.

COPELAND: Now, I will tell you.

PINSKY: Brian.

COPELAND: I will tell you --

SEDAGHATFAR: Just to finish my thought, the idea is he went after one of the victims. He brought out that she has been in and out of jail. She has

a criminal background. He has been convicted of drug offenses and identity theft. So, the idea is to try to make them not believable. That is the

part of the defense strategy.

PINSKY: Yes. But, Sam is sighing because you are taking these people --

SCHACHER: Yes. I mean --

PINSKY: But, the real question becomes, why on earth would these women put themselves in these cross hairs if they were -- There is no money to be

gained. There is no notoriety. They have been asked by -- particularly, the girl, Tarshis, who I spoke yesterday had been asked by tabloids

previously, she would not do it.

She has been talking about it in meetings, in her 12 set meetings. And, she wanted to support other victims and sort of create the movement that we

have been talking about here --

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: -- which is that women should not stand for this.

SCHACHER: And, the more that women come forward --

PINSKY: So, you are upset? You do not like what Brian said.

SCHACHER: I was upset because just because somebody may have gone to jail or had a drug problem does not mean that they somehow were not a victim of

rape or sexual assault. It does not --

PINSKY: In fact, in my world --

COPELAND: No, it does not, Sam. But, here is the thing, though. Does not it raise credibility issues? She was convicted of fraud too.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

COPELAND: Now, that does not mean she is lying about this. What I am saying in a court of law, and we are in the in a court of law, but if we

were, it would raise credibility issues.

PINSKY: Danine, what do you think?

MANETTE: I strongly agree with what Sam is saying. It is just like just because somebody has been a victim of -- I mean had been a drug addict or

been a criminal or whatever, that does not mean that they cannot be raped.

SCHACHER: Thank you.

MANETTE: That does not mean that they cannot be a victim of a crime.

COPELAND: That is right. No. Absolutely, that is right.

MANETT: One does not equal the other --

PINSKY: I would dare say --

MANETTE: -- but it does not erase them from the ability to be a victim of a crime.

PINSKY: And, Anahita, I would dare say that in my world, when people are drug addicts and alcoholics, they become victims of rape or the rape often

incites some of the addiction later.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

PINSKY: So, it is a very common story--

SEDAGHATFAR: It explains that. Right.

MANETTE: Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: -- in people with these sorts histories.

SEDAGHATFAR: But, it certainly does raise the issue of credibility, Dr. Drew, and that is the job of the defense. At this point, at least in the

court of public opinion, when you are indicating that one of these alleged victims has been convicted of fraud and identity theft, arguably that goes

towards her credibility and her veracity.

PINSKY: OK. All right. Brian, what do you think should he do? What should he do? Does he have to duck and stay out of the public eye and that

is it? He just fades away or does he do something about it?

COPELAND: Well, he is in a no-win position as I said earlier. If he comes out and forcefully denies it, people who believe that he is guilty, they

are just going to say that he is lying. People who already believe that he did not do are going to say "See, he vindicated himself."

But, I would like to say one thing. What I would like to see and what would really, you know, be the final nail, is if there was corroboration.

For example, Barbara Bowman said that she talked to her agent and she talked to a lawyer. If they came forward and said, "Yes. She came to us

and told us."

PINSKY: But, Brian -- Brian, I just played a tape of Janice Dickinson talking about this in 2006.

SCHACHER: Right.

COPELAND: Right.

PINSKY: Talking about almost 10 years ago and I know that she has been talking about it a lot since too as a matter of fact. But, besides, these

are all allegations still, but it did not just come forward, it just hit the social media recently.

COPELAND: No. I am not saying it just came forward. I am just talking about corroboration. If all these women were drugged, he is getting these

pills somewhere. Whoever he is getting from -- Whoever he is getting them from, if they came forward, that would be corroboration.

SCHACHER: I agree.

COPELAND: I am not saying that they are not telling the truth.

PINSKY: Yes. It is a great idea.

COPELAND: I am just saying that they are allegations at this point.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

SCHACHER: Brian is absolutely right. I think at the end of the day, if we could have somebody whether it was a chauffeur, an assistant, somebody, a

friend that may have seen this --

COPELAND: Right.

SCHACHER: -- will you please come forward.

PINSKY: Well, the three of those -- listen, three of those wives was alledging -- I heard on Nancy Grace, alleging that the guy -- this is wild

allegation, but she alleged, at least Nancy was shaping the story this way, that her boyfriend that night, her date was the one that brought her to

Bill Cosby`s house and she felt as though that was --

SCHACHER: Who set it up.

PINSKY: -- that may have been his job.

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: To bring girls in.

SCHACHER: Wait. Really quickly. I want to know really quickly, because we have been talking about what should Bill Cosby do.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: What should Bill Cosby do.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: What do you think Bill Cosby should do?

PINSKY: Well, you know what? This has actually been studied, Sam. They have actually done studies on what to do when the mob gets going. And,

there are two things. It divides into an issue of integrity versus an issue of competency.

In other words, were you incompetent and you have done something you can change. In which case to step forward and go, "This will never happen

again" is very effective. When it comes to issues of integrity and you step forward and say, "I did it. I am a bad guy, that is a disaster. You

are done after that.

SCHACHER: Really.

PINSKY: But if you could say -- in between, he can say, "I was sick. It was a terrible time of history. I had no idea the impact I was having. I

have had treatment since. I cannot believe I have lived with this shame. I am so happy to talk about it." I mean think about Tiger Woods. He

stepped up and just took -- he just took the shots and we kind of let it go, you know? --

COPELAND: OK. But, Tiger Woods did not have decades --

PINSKY: And, he did not have any sort of, you know, the things he had done were not of the same order or magnitude that we are talking about here.

But, I am just saying that the behavior of stepping up and saying, "You know, this is terrible. It was 30 years ago, and none of this has happened

since. I cannot believe that was the same person that might have an impact." But, Danine, what do you say?

MANETTE: Well, you see, it seems like if all of this stuff was back in 1969 and 1970 that will be one thing. But, it seems like there are some

things that are coming up back in 2004 and 2005.

And, that kind of, you know, takes away from the credibility of the fact that "Oh, I was young and dumb and did stupid things." Plus, the fact that

he is drugging these women. Usually, rape is like a crime of power and anger. But, the fact that he is getting these women like --

COPELAND: Allegedly.

PINSKY: Yes. This is alleged.

MANETTE: I am sorry. Allegedly drugging these women.

PINSKY: But, what if he said, "Hey, we were all doing drugs. We were all addicted. I had treatments since." I do not know what he did, but you can

say, "Yeah, she thought I gave them to her. I did not. We were all doing this. Who knows what we were doing. It was 1969.

MANETTE: Right --

PINSKY: That was I was saying. I agree. But, Anahita, you say no?

SEDAGHATFAR: No. I say no. And, also, by the way, even if some of these alleged victims are telling the truth, it does not mean all of them are.

And, you mentioned Tiger Woods. When he came out and confessed, "OK. I had an affair on my wife," and one or two mistresses came out.

Then all of a sudden there were 30 mistresses. And, you know some of those were made up. Those were just other women that wanted to get fame or

wanted to get recognized on T.V.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

SEDAGHATFAR: So, it does not mean that all these allegations are true --

PINSKY: Sure, of course.

SEDAGHATFAR: -- even if some are.

PINSKY: I think that goes without saying. But, the ones that really have been so vocal, what is in it for them? We think of motivation --

SEDAGHATFAR: Book deals.

PINSKY: But, what is the motivation?

SEDAGHATFAR: Book deals.

PINSKY: Books these days. But, who knows? I do not know. Coming up, you will hear the latest from women to accuse Bill Cosby of sexual assault. We

are keeping the conversation going after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOAN TARSHIS: I was on the couch and he was pulling my underwear down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY (voice-over): Bill Cosby, the fallout from the rape accusations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (2): When he allegedly grabbed her and forcibly kissed her on the mouth when no one was around.

LEMON: These women are alleging Bill Cosby is a serial rapist.

DICKINSON: I do not care about what Cosby or networks or anybody says, I am -- you will hear me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (2): The legal team from Bill Cosby says, this story is a lie. She insists it is true.

SCHACHER: Too many are hostile to the victims, especially Janice Dickinson. This is not a bandwagon anyone asks for.

BARNETT: There is doubt. There are gray areas. There has been several instances where women have lied on men and said that they have done things

that they have not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: When there are dozen and they are all telling the exact same story, it becomes much more difficult to believe Bill Cosby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Wendy, Spirit and Evy. More than a dozen women have come forward alleging they have been sexually assaulted by Bill Cosby.

Each new allegation adds to this ongoing controversy. And, Sam, there are even celebrities now jumping to this controversy.

SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew. Two outspoken celebrities have shared their thoughts on social media. And, they are not holding back. So, one,

Roseanne Barr. She tweeted, quote, "Maybe Woody Allen or Roman Polanski could be persuaded to write a part for Bill Cosby in one of their new

movies.

And, then Bill Maher posted his thoughts on his Facebook page, quote, "It does seem odd that the guy, who is accused of rape by 15 women is the same

guy who was always saying, `Hold up, pull your pants up`."

PINSKY: It is a frame. It is funny, but he has been very vocal about his believes about how young African-American males ought to present

themselves.

SCHACHER: Not under their pants.

PINSKY: I tried to get a hold of Rosie O`Donnell today. I DM`d her, I do not think she saw it, but she on "The View" today was really had a lot to

say. I do not think I had the chance to say it. There is a lot of women - -

SCHACHER: I wish she could come on here.

PINSKY: -- Well, maybe she will at some point. But, certainly, you are welcome, Rosie here. We will give you all the time you want. But, she

really had a steam about this and her instinct was, you know, what would motivate these women to come forward? --

SCHACHER: Right.

PINSKY: -- If there was not some, some substance here. And, as I said earlier, if you take out even two of the three or four allegations, still a

behavior pattern is really bad. And, I told you before during the break, you know during history of Hollywood, think what publicists did. They

protected people from finding who celebrity figures really were. Those days are over.

SCHACHER: Yes. Exactly.

PINSKY: This is not the old wold anymore. Evy, you understand what I am saying? Women have equal rights and we cannot allow any of this to go on.

My question goes to Evy is what do you think he should do?

POMPOURAS: You know, I would not be surprised if this builds up and builds up and there are more women that come out that he does eventually step out.

I do think that there is some type of PR device and process here.

I think that his lawyer probably has said something like that, and they are deciding what to do. Either way, it is bad for him. Because if he did do

this, then if you come out and say, "Yes, I am sorry," but then you are saying, yes, I am sorry to what? To rape. But, I have a question for you,

Dr. Drew, actually.

PINSKY: Yes, ma`am. Go ahead.

POMPOURAS: Again, we do not know if this is true. But, if this were true, how would you diagnose Mr. Cosby or an individual who did this?

PINSKY: Right.

POMPOURAS: Because, again, we have a pattern of behavior. We have someone drugging women, raping women, abusing women. And, this is throughout their

whole life in some way.

PINSKY: Yes.

POMPOUARAS: So, from the mental or clinical perspective, what do you see?

PINSKY: If -- pure speculation, if any of this were true, the only way can kind of put it together without having any facts, not knowing these people

is I look at a lot of the culprit as the period of history. People thought it was cool to do drugs.

SCHACHER: I agree.

PINSKY: People thought sex was just this cool thing to anybody did, whenever they wanted to -- And people were just doing a lot of drugs and

maybe he was more into that than we knew. Maybe he had a problem with that. Maybe there was a sex addiction here. Again, we do not know. It is

all pure allegation.

But, within that, there is also a high degree of what is called access to, Wendy. You know what I am talking about here, where there is a

narcissistic spectrum as well. Do not know him, but just speculating like Evy asked me.

WALSH: Judging by his career.

PINSKY: Right. Judging by the career as well. But, all treatable and he may have had treatment. He may be a different guy now. That is possible,

Wendy, is it not?

WALSH: Very, very possible. And, I do agree with you that this is sort of a symptom of the times. So, what we are doing is we are casting a lens

with today`s ideas and understanding of what rape is and what the use of drugs, whether it be wine or something else and what was happening at the

time. My suspicion is that some of these women did not even realize they were raped --

PINSKY: Wait. I know that. Listen, that is exactly --

WALSH: -- until today. You know, until this day.

PINSKY: No. Listen. Wendy, that is right. Spirit, I spoke to Joan Tarshis yesterday. She said she was ten years into her sobriety before she

looked back and said, "Oh, my God, that was a rape."

WALSH: Exactly.

CLANTON: You know what? It is scary to me to hear you guys dismiss this like oh, because we are in 2014 --

WALSH: We are not dismissing. We are trying to provide some context and understanding.

CLANTON: When you say that you are talking about because it was a cultural thing in the `60s and the `70s, there was rape during the free love

movement.

PINSKY: Yes, but they thought it was rape -- but hang on. But, listen, Spirit, they thought of rape as a violent crime when somebody had a weapon

and held a woman down. But, they thought of it then. They were wrong, I understand. But, listen I have a lot more to say. I am not going the 3/4

to stop. I am going to get you in that.

CLANTON: Me either.

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Stay with us. We will be right back with you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOWMAN: I did not really talk about it much because nobody was believing it. I was in a situation, I was in New York. My job was to work hard, go

to classes, do not ask questions. Just be grateful for this amazing opportunity, do not mess it up.

So, when things would come up and he would start making me uncomfortable and I knew something was going on. I would start asking questions and he

would said, "You know what? You do not trust me. You got to trust me and by the way, you were drunk."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Spirit, Evy and Danine. Another alleged victim is speaking out. Tamara Green was working for Bill Cosby in the `70s. She

said she met him in a restaurant one day and when she told him she was feeling ill, he gave her what he called was -- what he referred to as to

cold medicine tablets. Then here is what she told CNN`s Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMARA GREEN, ANOTHER ACCUSER OF BILL COSBY RAPING HER: And, he said, "Maybe this will help." I took the pills and he was right, you know? In a

few minutes, I felt like a million bucks. After that, I was very, very, stoned.

When we got to my apartment, he was going, "Well, let me help you take off your clothes and I will put you to bed." And, I am thinking, "Wait a

minute." And, then I am wondering why when I am sick, he has to take his clothes off.

And, then the next thing is, we were having a fight. It was like hand-to- hand combat. I did not know if he was going to kill me or rape me. I knew he had his clothes off and he was trying to get in bed with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That Same Tamara Green also appeared with Janice Dickinson on "Entertainment Tonight" last night. We have that here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREEN: I was on the radio in Philadelphia back in 2005, and these two rather strident militant women were objecting to the fact that I called him

Bill. They said, you could call him Dr. Cosby.

DICKINSON: Oh, please. That is just a crap.

GREEN: I said two things. First, is it is a slap in the face to everybody whoever got and paid for a Ph.D. And, the second thing, I have seen him

with his pants off, I will call him Bill if I want to.

DICKINSON: Call him (EXPLICIT)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And, a reminder that Cosby`s attorney, Marty Singer has said Janice`s rape claim is a lie. Evy, now, you did an evaluation of Janice`s

demeanor and delivery in these interviews. Do you still believe she is truthful?

POMPOURAS: Well, with Janice, I have seen bits and pieces. She has a rather unique persona. So, it is more little bit more difficult to tell

with Janice. I do think that there is something there that something that happened because you see, she is very disgusted. There is a very emotional

connection there.

She is very disgusted. She talks about how she regrets everything. Now, whether there was a bit of consensualness or whether she was drugged or he

manipulated her, I do think that there is something a little bit unique with Janice.\

As far as Tamara, you can hear her. It is again truthful, past tense. You see these women, same story, same speech. One thing I have also notice,

Dr. Drew, no one has come out to speak well of Mr. Cosby. In all these years, he has been in the entertainment business for how long and yet I

have not seen one individual other than his lawyer come out and say, "I vouch for Bill Cosby. He is a man of character."

PINSKY: Yes. But, Evy -- listen, I said it last night, and I will say it again tonight. First of all, I welcome anyone who would like to express

that opinion here. We need that to have this conversation be a little more balanced.

And, I have said, this is a man that has done good things and we are eliminating that entire multi-decade career of entertaining people, of

advocating on behalf of children, children`s welfare, being concerned. People do not always agree about his opinions about young African-American

males, but he was dedicated and concern about it. Danine, you know what I am saying? Sam?

MANETTE: Yes.

SCHACHER: OK. I like what you are saying, Dr. Drew, but I am sorry. If this is true --

PINSKY: I understand.

SCHACHER: -- we are dealing with a serial rapist and any good that he does makes it null and void in my book.

PINSKY: Danine, I will give you the chance to pile out here. I am not saying that, that should not be the case. I am just saying it is not

coming up, which is sort of interesting the way Evy brought it up.

MANETTE: The silence is deafening. And, it is like you would think that somebody would come around and say, "You know, there were so many groupies

that used to hang out around his trailer all the time or something." If there was no credibility to these women is stories. And, the fact that

people keep saying over and over, why did not anyone say anything? Women did not have a voice back then like they do now.

PINSKY: All right.

MANETTE: They did not have the empowerment. You know, we were like a decade --

PINSKY: We have breaking news. A new allegation -- this is, honest to God truth. I am hearing a new allegation that is just surfaced. I will give

you that when we get back from this commercial break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with my panel. We are talking about Bill Cosby and the growing number of assault allegations against him. A new allegation has

just surpassed. I swear, the days ahead, social psychologists are going to study this frenzy. What is real, what is not.

TMZ is reporting that an actress accused Bill Cosby of assaulting her in 1971. Bill Cosby`s attorney responded to this allegation. And, there is

some language in here. We reached the point of absurdity.

Now, this woman is claiming something that occurred more than 40 years ago and while she was waiting in the dressing room to appear on "The Tonight

Show" by client forced his penis into her mouth.

People are trying to come up with these wild stories to justify why they waited 40 to 50 years to disclose these ridiculous allegations. Danine, do

you want to respond?

MANETTE: There is nothing he can say. He just needs to talk to his wife, because it is getting ridiculous.

PINSKY: Spirit?

CLANTON: Nothing to say.

SCHACHER: Well, there is nothing that he needs to talk to his wife about apparently, because when he asked if it could be taken off the air, she sat

there with a smile on her face. So, clearly she knew what a lot of the allegations were. What else needs to be said?

Some of these stories allegef that she was around when this was going down. Another victim came forward. She is now 66 years of age, a retired defense

attorney. Erin Burnett asked if there was anything she would like to say to Bill Cosby.

At this point at 77, you got to work at some redemption over there. You need to do some good in his wife. I did not do this to him. He did this

to himself and he knows what the truth is. At age 77, you better get with it. You are running out of time to become heroic.

PINSKY: Evy, what is your response to the frenzy we are in the middle of now?

POMPOURAS: With regard to what his lawyer said as far as these stories being crazy, it is usually the truth. The more ridiculous they sound, the

more truthful they are. Think how specific they are as far as places and location. And, they seem outrageous.

One other thing I want to touch on, Dr. Drew, that we spoke about in the last block, you mentioned he is done a lot of good, charity and benefits.

I want to point out I have worked many cases and one of the things offenders primarily do is that. They almost always compensate for the bad

that they do in their lives by overcompensating.

PINSKY: Do they compensate later trying to make amends or while they are perpetrating?

POMPOURAS: While they are perpetrating. So that way it takes away from what they are doing. They feel better and it also distracts.

PINSKY: I have got to stop this. I want to shout out to one of our family here at Dr. Drew, his name Is Bruce Daniels. This is his last night

working as our director. He has been somebody well loved and we wish him well going forward. Forensic Files is up next.

END