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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Man Goes Missing at Broncos Games; Amtrak Train Collides with Semi Truck; Chilling Conversation with ISIS Prisoner; Russell Wilson "Not Black Enough." Volcano Lava Heads Towards Hawaii Homes

Aired October 28, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A jury has convicted a friend of Boston Bombing suspect of lying to federal agents. Robel Philipos said he did not visit Tsarnaev's dorm room three days after the attack and he remove a backpack containing empty firework shells from the suspected bomber's room. Well, he later signed a written confession admitting to it. As you'll recall, the Boston Marathon bombing killed three people, wounding more than 260 last year. It was the worst attack on U.S. soil since the September 11 attacks.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is a crazy story. Investigators are trying to figure out how a 53-year-old man, going to his first-ever Denver Broncos game, just vanished during the game. Paul Kitterman was waiting for his son outside a stadium bathroom. When his son came out, Kitterman was not there, he was nowhere to be found and he hasn't been seen since.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAROLD TONNESON, MISSING MAN'S SON: We were there until 1:30 in the morning and paramedics said nobody had come in that night at all. He was like "well, we'll just stick together because you got your phone." So there's no way he would have taken off like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Jean Casarez is covering this story.

Jean, you just ran in here literally getting off the phone with the last person who spoke to this man.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, her name is Tia Boppy (ph). She's in the picture we saw. And what she says is Paul didn't just walk away from the stadium that seats 74,000 people. She says that the family believes something bad has happened to him, that he would not do this, that he's never done this. But she says police are telling them that police believe, since he's a grown man, that if he left, he left on his own accord. And she doesn't believe the police are doing anything. Now, we have a call into the police right now to find out.

But here's what she says are the basic facts. Paul Kitterman lives on a very small town. He's a cattle rancher and does construction. PEREIRA: Everybody knows him.

CASAREZ: Everybody knows him. Very good man, loyal man, person of his word. Tia and her boyfriend got two extra seats to the Denver Broncos game so Paul and his stepson went with them. First time ever at this stadium. They saw him at half time. Tia says he was so excited that he said, "It's bigger than it is on television." The stepson goes into the bathroom, she and her boyfriend are still with Paul Kitterman and they said, "OK, meet you when the game is over" -- because they were sitting in different areas. "We'll see you when the game is over, and we'll meet you at Gate eight." They all go to gate eight, he's not there.

PEREIRA: And they're thinking he might have got lost. First time at the stadium, he might have got lost or turned around. One would think he'd try his cell phone but he didn't carry a cell phone.

CASAREZ: He didn't have that. He doesn't carry that stuff. Small- town cattle rancher. She told me that police and investigators combed the video yesterday from the stadium and they have not told the family anything of what they saw or didn't see on that video.

BERMAN: But, Jean, you cover a lot of stories like this. When the police say "no foul play," it's hard to imagine the universe of possibilities besides that. It would bomb the guy walked off on his own and doesn't want to talk to anybody.

CASAREZ: And it sounds like, according to the family and the other close friends, that that is the conclusion that's been made, that when you are an adult and can't be found and everything seems to be in order, you must have voluntarily made that decision to leave. The family says no, he didn't just walk away without a car, without a credit card from this huge stadium in Denver.

PEREIRA: They feel like they're still looking. They feel that police are actively searching or are they --

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: They say the police haven't called them so they don't know anything.

PEREIRA: OK, well, hopefully, they can -- maybe some news media pressure will put some pressure on them to get looking for him in a more aggressive manner.

CASAREZ: Something happened. Something happened.

BERMAN: Jean Casarez, thanks so much.

PEREIRA: Ahead @THISHOUR, controversy brewing here. Charles Barkley calling it a dirty, dark secret in the black community. He says it's behind the problem of blacks holding back the success of other blacks. We're going to dive into this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PEREIRA: All right, we have a situation that we're just learning of here and want to bring it to your attention. According to an Amtrak spokesperson, a Chicago-bound Amtrak train collided with a semi truck crossing the tracks in White County, Indiana, this morning. We've been told there were 11 people transported from that train to a local hospital because of this incident. Eight of those people have since been treated and released. We understand that none of those injuries are believed to be life threatening. It is a concern, obviously, because there were some 56 passengers.

BERMAN: There were people on board the train but they're all apparently doing OK, which is good. Those people taken the hospital, the remaining passengers put on a bus to get to their destination.

PEREIRA: It happened around 8:20 this morning. Again, that northbound train struck a semi truck that crossed on the rail tracks running adjacent to the road there. Apparently, the train split the truck in half. The driver uninjured. Amazing. We'll keep an eye on this for you.

BERMAN: Ahead for us, you will get a look at ISIS militants you have simply never seen before. Men fighting for ISIS taken prisoner. What they told our reporter is chilling. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: This is a very chilling conversation you're about to hear with captive ISIS fighters, captive ISIS militants being held by Kurdish fighters in northern Syria.

BERMAN: I want you to listen to what they tell our Ivan Watson, not just about what went on inside that ISIS community, but also how they say that Ivan would be treated had he been captured. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are in a prison run by the Kurdish militants here in northern Syria and we're being introduced to prisoners that the Kurds tell us were members of ISIS.

(voice-over): The prisoners are brought in blindfolded and we quickly begin to wonder whether they're being forced to speak to us. During our visit here, the guards, who ask not to be shown, do not allow us to see the cells where the prisoners are being held.

This man trembles with fear as a prison guard removes his blindfold. I introduce myself as an American journalist and he begins to relax a little. He tells me he's a Syrian named Suleiman. He confesses to being part of an ISIS cell that planted and detonated a remote- controlled car bomb outside a Kurdish base and says he received around $3,600 for completing the job.

(on camera): What is the idea that ISIS is fighting for?

UNIDENTIFIED CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translation): They said they were fighting for Islam and justice. They were lying to us. They took advantage of our minds and our poverty.

WATSON (voice-over): One of the prisoners the guards bring out is barely a man.

(on camera): Your name is Kareem. How old are you?

UNIDENTIFIED CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translation): I am 19 years old.

WATSON (voice-over): But Kareem tells me he fought alongside ISIS all across Syria for more than a year.

(on camera): Where were you injured?

UNIDENTIFIED CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translation): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WATSON: And he has the battle scars to prove it.

UNIDENTIFIED CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT: (through translation): They gave us drugs, hallucinogenic pills that made you not care if you live or die.

WATSON: Before he's captured by the Kurds, Kareem claim he is saw ISIS behead many of its prisoners.

(on camera): Why are does ISIS cut people's heads off?

UNIDENTIFIED CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translation): Wherever ISIS goes into an area, the eyes of ISIS, the people there who don't adhere to their Islamic law, are apostates. Everything has to follow ISIS' way. Even women who don't cover their faces, women would also get their heads chopped off.

WATSON (voice-over): The final prisoner is Jabber, a former schoolteacher and father of who two, who also confesses to a car bombing.

(on camera): What would have happened to me if, when you were with is, if you guys had found me, an American journalist?

UNIDENTIFIED CAPTURED ISIS MILITANT (through translation): With ISIS, your fate would be death. There are different kinds of death. They would torture you for sure. They might decapitate you or cut off your hands. They will not simply shoot a bullet in your head.

WATSON (voice-over): It's impossible for CNN to confirm whether anything the prisoners tell us was true or whether these men were coached by their captors. The Kurdish prison guards say, if set free, every one of these men would likely go back and rejoin ISIS.

Ivan Watson, CNN, in Kurdish-controlled northern Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Chilling thought. BERMAN: A remark able perspective.

PEREIRA: It really is a chilling report from Ivan.

Ahead @THISHOUR, we turn to Hawaii. Hot lava less than 70 yards from a Hawaiian town could destroy it. The question is, can it be stopped?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Charles Barley is really in the middle of a new controversy here. It stems from reports out of Seattle. Some members of the Seattle Seahawks, the football team here -- don't get confused, Charles Barley played basketball -- but some think that Russell Wilson is, quote, "not black enough" and that this is reportedly creating some tension inside Seattle's locker room.

So listen to what the always talkative Charles Barley says about these alleged critics of Russell Wilson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES BARKLEY, FORMER NBA STAR: It's a dirty, dark secret in the black community, one of the reasons we're never going to be successful as a whole because of other black people. And for some reason, we're brainwashed to think if you are not a thug or an idiot, you aren't black enough. If you go to school, make good grades, speak intelligent and don't break the law, you're not a good black person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: L.Z. Granderson joins us in the studio.

I was thinking, of all the shades of black people there are, there are probably that many shades of opinions on this topic about being black enough and how you feel about Charles and his controversy this time. What do you make of it? What are your thoughts?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There are a lot of things you can talk about.

PEREIRA: Sure.

GRANDERSON: The first thing that struck me was, there was an element of the conversation which Charles insinuated that institutionalized racism and the long history of segregation has no impact on the black race today. And that's wrong. That does have an impact.

But Charles is right in the sense that there's this mentality that worships or glamorizes a darker element of not just black life but American life. And we monetized it and sold it to minorities and too many of us are buying into that.

BERMAN: The issue is that Charles painted it with very broad brushstrokes and said, it's out there for everybody as opposed to saying there are some members of a community that think this way. I suppose the question is, is it true in that locker room? Is it true in Seattle that people in the NFL don't want to see a quarterback like Russell Wilson?

GRANDERSON: Absolutely not. If you've seen Charles Barley play, you know he doesn't go to the basket a little bit. He goes to the baskets hard.

(LAUGHTER)

So he's into big, broad strokes, but he's going to make big, grand statements. The fact is there are people in the NFL or in the locker room that appreciate Russell Wilson for who he is. And there are people who may not necessarily appreciate all his nuances. That doesn't mean they don't view him as black enough.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANDERSON: Well, I can't speak for every African-American in the country.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANDERSON: I think he's black enough, whatever that --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: What is black enough?

GRANDERSON: Exactly, right?

PEREIRA: That's the question.

GRANDERSON: But President Obama, when he was running for president, faced that question.

PEREIRA: Thank you.

GRANDERSON: Cory Booker in New Jersey was attacked with that question by his opponent.

BERMAN: By whom, though?

GRANDERSON: By other African-Americans questioning whether or not he's black enough. And they were shot down by African-Americans saying, why are you asking such an asinine question.

PEREIRA: It's interesting, Van Jones said the black community doesn't have the corner on jealousy. Haters are going to hate. There's something to that. You see that within every -- there's going to be grades of how people feel about things and what a true Irish person is, a true Jewish person, a true person of faith.

GRANDERSON: The difference when it comes to the African-American community is because ours has a tint of violence tied to this authenticity that is very detrimental to communities as a whole. It erodes us and has prevented us, in a lot of places, from making the advancements that we need to make. I've heard the, you're not black enough, you speak too well, things like that. You have to ignore those people. But there are some people buy into it and they fought back because they don't want to be perceived as being white or not black enough. Because we have that violence and because it's detrimental to our education, we need to talk about it in a different way than other groups who have the haters.

PEREIRA: L.Z., we're glad you could come on and talk about this with us today. Always good to see you.

BERMAN: Great to see you.

PEREIRA: You had to make it better --

(CROSSTALK)

GRANDERSON: I like that. You get one more chance. You go up one more.

BERMAN: Great. I'm not going to let --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to talk volcanoes because of that. Want to take you to Hawaii. One of the world's most active volcanoes is forcing thousands -- hundreds of people, rather, to flee on Hawaii's big island. They're heading out of town. A 2,000-degree river of lava moving quickly towards the town of Pahoa, eating up the earth at the rate of eight to 11 yards an hour. It's less than 70 yards from the closest home.

BERMAN: In some places, the lava is chest-high. Hawaiian officials have not issued a mandatory evacuation order yet. But many residents have left on their own. I can see why.

Joining us is James Head, professor geological sciences at Brown University.

Jim, thanks so much for being with us, Professor.

I don't think you're at any risk in Providence, assuming that's where you are right now. But people on the island are. But I'm a little confused. This volcano's been erupting for, what, decades and decades. Why is it a threat to people now?

JAMES HEAD, PROFESSOR OF GEOLOGICAL SCIENCES, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Well, it has indeed. It has been far more than decades, really millions and millions of years. The whole island is built up of millions of flows just like this one. It just occurs every once in a while and people tend to forget it. So it's just a natural thing. It gives us a good chance to study them from a scientific point of view and help us predict where they will go and keep people out of danger.

PEREIRA: And that's all we can do is stay out of the way, watch what the predictions and the models tell us because you can't stop lava, can you?

HEAD: Not really. If you watch lava coming up to a house, unfortunately, the 2,000 degrees, as you say, and flashpoint of paper is 451. So they burst into flame. And if you're standing there, the house is standing there, it's like standing in front of a bulldozer essentially type of situation because if the house doesn't burst into flames, it's going to be overrun by a bulldozer, steamroller type of effect. Nothing you can do about that. No amount of water hoses or anything like that is going to slow the lava flow down.

BERMAN: It looks very, very dangerous. It looks like the type of thing you want to avoid. And I guess -- you've been out there. I go back to this question. Is it safe to even be building there? Is it safe for people to be living there at all, given that this volcano is there doing what it's doing for, as you say, thousands of years?

HEAD: Well, I think you can find safe places in Hawaii. The most active places are indeed right around Kilauea on the big island of Hawaii and places like Oahu where there's a low possibility of an eruption. But there's a high probability around this area. But people have short memories. Oftentimes people from the mainland come in and build houses. The local Hawaiians have a pretty good idea of what goes on here. They know from their history and lore exactly what goes and have a firm respect for nature. They're usually the last ones that have a problem. It's usually the people that come in without knowledge of this sort of thing. So it is dangerous. Not as dangerous as the volcanoes we have in the northwest U.S., which are extremely explosive. These you usually get signals for and you can get out. But houses are not so easy to move and they usually get mowed down and burst into flames sadly.

PEREIRA: After the lava's gone by, how imminent is that danger? Obviously, there's fire. We can see the burning there. It can take down a house, burn everything, scorch everything in its path. Afterwards, how soon until you can return safely?

HEAD: Well, it usually takes weeks to months for the lava to cool completely. When we study these, we go up fairly soon after the lava's flowed out because it forms a cool crust on top. We can make measurements by penetrating probes down in and making measurements on the surface. But typically that's not the kind of thing that a non- geologist would want to do.

PEREIRA: No.

HEAD: There are millions of these flows all over the island of Hawaii. Everything is literally built on these types of flows.

PEREIRA: James Head, the beauty that created those islands we love so much is caused by these volcanoes, we know too well.

Thanks so much for joining us and helping us understand the science behind it.

BERMAN: Let's hope the people out there stay safe.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Thanks for joining us @THISHOUR. I'm John Berman. PEREIRA: And I'm Michaela Pereira.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.