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ISIS Beheads British Aid Worker; Cameron to Hold Meeting Tomorrow; Reaction in Iraq to Additional U.S. Troops, Air Strikes; Rep. Adam Schiff Talks Haines Beheading, ISIS;

Aired September 13, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Randi Kaye in New York. I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.

Breaking news tonight here: an ISIS video released today appears to show the terrorist group has executed another hostage, British aide worker David Haines. The video entitled "A message to the allies of America" was posted to Twitter today, and does look similar to previous videos we saw showing the beheadings of American journalist James Foley and Steven Sotloff.

The executioner who sounds like the same man who appeared in these previous videos directly threatens British Prime Minister David Cameron.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're evil allies of America, which continues to strike the Muslims of Iraq and most recently bombed the Haditha dam will only accelerate your destruction and playing the role of obedient lapdog, Cameron, will only drag you and your people into another bloody and unwinnable war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Haines was helping to provide humanitarian relief in Syria when he was abducted last year, March 2013. The 44-year-old is a long-time aide worker who has helped victims of conflict since 1999. That's according to a Paris-based relief organization.

Joining me now, senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, CNN national security analyst Bob Baer, and CNN chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, also joining us as well.

Jim Sciutto, to you first on this. What have you been able to learn since this news has broken?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Randi, I mean, first, our thoughts just go out to David Haines' family and friends. Just a horrible event and so widely publicized and seen by the world. It's the first thing that comes to mind.

The second, we're getting another very bitter taste of how brutal this group is, and the length that they're willing to go to terrorize. And, you know, another thought that comes to mind is this. A lot of attention has been focused since the killings, beheadings of James Foley, an American, Steven Sotloff, an American on this presumed killer, this voice that we hear and face we see in these videos.

That British voice, shocking enough when it was a -- apparently a Britain killing Americans. Even more shocking, of course, here that it would be a Briton killing a Briton here and taking his aim at what presumably is his own country in such a visible and brutal way. And you know, it's just a sad event to watch.

And the intelligence officials I speak to, they were bracing themselves for this. They knew that ISIS had a Briton to its custody, in addition to others. And in addition, they believe to other Americans as well. So, sadly, this is something they were expecting.

KAYE: Colonel Francona, you're shaking your head.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, this is -- this is just horrific. I think we knew this could happen. We sort of expected it, because the British have not backed down. The British have joined the coalition.

And this is clearly a message to anybody that wants to join with the Americans. The ISIS regards the Americans as the ones who are leading the charge against them. And you can see from Secretary Kerry's movements around the region, he is trying to galvanize all of the Arab states and the Turks to fight ISIS. And, of course, we always rely on the British as our closest allies to do that.

And this is a message, a warning, and a challenge to the British. I think the ISIS wants to have this fight. And this is just another step toward that goal.

KAYE: You know, we talk a lot about strategy. But Nic Robertson, it's certainly a time also to remember David Haines. What more can you tell us about him?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're now hearing from the British prime minister, who is tweeting. He says the murder of David Haines is an act of pure evil. My heart goes out to his family, who have shown extraordinary courage and fortitude. And he goes on to say, we will do everything in our power to hunt down these murderers, ensuring they face justice, however long it takes.

David Haines came from Scotland, from a town of Perth, 44 years old, an aide worker for a French aide organization, had been working for them for about 10 years. He worked in many countries around the world, trying to help the less fortunate people. He was picked up after a day working at a refugee camp, looking at how to establish another refugee camp inside Syria. And just as he was driving out of the country back towards Turkey,

that's when he was picked up. It happened very quickly, very professionally, according to people who saw this, who witnessed it. And he was paraded before the camera following the brutal murder of Steven Sotloff. And it's just been 11 days since that happened, and now we see him killed as well here, Randi.

KAYE: Yes. And, Nic, I think you said the British prime minister is saying they will do whatever it takes.

That is pretty strong language, Bob Baer, right, coming from a country that was sort of on the fence about supporting his coalition.

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think they'll eventually catch these people. I think they'll identify him. You'll have defectors -- they do voice analysis and the rest of it, going through social analytics.

But there's something else I would like to add. Don't forget, this group is slaughtering Muslims, as well. And whether they're Shia or Sunni or anybody who opposes them, they are trying to go back to a pure form of what they conceive to be Islam at the beginning. And they have completely got it wrong.

And it's almost pre-Islamic what they're doing, cutting off people's head. And what I have seen in history, in this part of the world, is that people start to turn against them. And the question is, how fast everyone will turn against them and how much damage they'll do in the meantime.

KAYE: And how important is it that people do turn against them?

FRANCONA: Well, you know, we've seen this in the past and we'll cite the Anbar awakening as a prime example of this. When al Qaeda in Iraq was setting up the Islamic state in Iraq, at some point, the Sunnis that live in that area said we didn't sign up for this radical brand, this radical theology.

And at some point, we're going to see that again. What point, I don't know when the tipping is going to happen, but many of the people that are allied with ISIS, particularly on the Iraqi side, Iraqi military people who are so anti-Shia right now that it has blinded their judgment, at some point, they're going to wake up and say, this is not what we signed up to do. This is way beyond the Islam that we know. And at that point, we will see the turn.

But we're not there yet. The problem is, we've got to get to that point.

BAER: Rick, I think we're close. I keep on hearing these people are frustrated, they have to do something about is. You're absolutely right. We need a second awakening.

If this administration fails to take advantage of, you know, these people, their emotions now, and they're unhappy about this beheading, I can tell you. It would be a big mistake. And I think we really do need a second awakening. We have to really drill down on that and get something moving.

KAYE: Yes, let me bring in CNN correspondent Jomana Karadsheh. She is in Baghdad for us.

Jomana, what have you been -- I know it's late in the night there. Have you been getting any sense of a reaction there from this latest beheading?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is very similar to reaction we've heard in the past. There's nothing yet that has been released. But again, Iraqis will tell you they condemn this and they live this every single day almost. They see this sort of brutality from this group like they have seen in the past with al Qaeda and Iraq, but now on a much larger and more brutal scale, controlling large parts of their cities. We have seen some horrific videos that have come out, Randi, like the -- massacre that took place at an air base here north of Baghdad in the city of Tikrit, a former U.S. base where hundreds of Shia recruits were taken by ISIS there, and they are believed to be up to 1,700 who have been killed.

So, Iraqis now are seeing this brutality and their hopes, as your guests were saying earlier, that there will be a second awakening. But this is going to be very difficult to achieve right now. Right now, it's going to take time to try and regain the trust of the Sunnis and try and undo what Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki and Shia government and security forces have done over the past few years to try and bring back the Sunnis who are key.

One expert I was speaking to earlier, Randi, said unless you win the Sunnis of Iraq, the battle here against ISIS is not going to -- it's going to take a very, very long time.

KAYE: Jim Sciutto, our national security correspondent, chief national security correspondent, still with us by phone.

Jim, so no reaction there from the administration yet. When they do react, what do you expect? How will this go?

SCIUTTO: Well, I think they will express solidarity to the British government. To this point, they have been leaving the comment to the U.K. for understandable reasons. This is not an American. But you should expect expressions of support, and echoing David Cameron's tweet a few moments ago, saying this is pure evil that we're seeing here. And that echoes some of the rhetoric you have heard from the administration.

Just another thought in light of point others have made in the last couple minutes. This is, of course, a threat to the U.K. and as the video is entitled, a threat to America's allies who are participating in the offensive against ISIS.

But the fact is, whether or not these countries participate, they're already a target. You have -- you have hundreds of British citizens, nationals, who have gone and joined this fight. You have French, Dutch, you have many from other parts of the world. And they -- whether they're governments or western or Arab, Christian

or Muslim, they view them all as not Muslim enough. And are willing to kill them on the battlefield or frankly back home.

And so there's -- yes, it's a threat. Yes, you can view it as a price of participation in this. But the fact is, these countries, our country included, are already a target of these groups. So, it's not -- you know, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, really, to some degree. And I think that's just something we should be aware of here, that the price these guys are willing to kill anyone, anywhere, who doesn't meet their sick standard of being a proper Muslim.

And the truth is, they killed not only Shia Muslims. They killed Sunni Muslims who aren't radical enough. And they certainly will kill Westerners, whether or not -- or attempt to kill Westerners, whether or not their countries, governments participate in this military action against is.

KAYE: Yes, we're also joined now by phone. We're being joined by Colonel Cedric Leighton, former member of Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Colonel, welcome to you.

You have been following coverage, listening to discussion. First, what do you make of this tragic news, and does it change the priorities here? Does it change the strategy?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), FORMER MEMBER, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Well, Randi, I think it's obviously a horrible and tragic event, as we have been discussing here. The key thing is that it will not only accelerate I think in the U.S. and I believe also U.K. response to everything that is going on, but it will also galvanize movements within the Pentagon and the U.S. government, especially the White House, to alter the strategy, to make the strategy a much more direct strategy and much more kinetic strategy, I think, than they had originally planned on doing.

I think the gradual approach that the administration has outlined, I would think is -- in essence, not meeting the needs of the moment. And in this particular case, you've got the Islamic State, ISIS, going in and killing all of the hostages they've got. They're basically going down their list.

And when they do this, that has to galvanize our forces to do more to free those hostages and to stop this killing. And if it doesn't do that, then we are in more trouble than we realize at this point.

KAYE: Nic Robertson, you have spoken with some of the tribal leaders affiliated with ISIS. What do they tell you?

ROBERTSON: Yes, there's a couple of things about the conversations I was having with one tribal leader who was associated with is in this advance through the north of Iraq in June. One of the questions I asked him, I said, well, what happens when is does something utterly barbaric? What are you going to do then? And he said, well, we're strong enough to take them on. We can take them on.

But, you know, as we talked further and further, he said, look, we're not allied with ISIS. We're allied with Baghdadi.

And I think there's an important -- there are some important things we should look at here. The awakening back in 2006-2007 which got rid of the old al Qaeda out of Iraq, the tribes in Iraq and this tribal leader I was talking to was one of them.

One of the reasons they rose up against al Qaeda in Iraq back then was because that al Qaeda had essentially usurped their power. And they could see their own power dwindling. These are tribal leaders who control their tribes because they can -- because they have influence over them. They set justice, they settle disputes, all those sorts of things. They no longer have that power. That was part of their motivation, to rise up against al Qaeda.

Baghdadi has learned from al Qaeda. So, when this tribal leader says to me, we have a good relationship with Baghdadi, you've got to understand that Baghdadi knows better how to treat these tribal leaders and how to keep them on side. So awakening is the way forward. But it may not be as easy to pull it off as it was back in '06-'07.

KAYE: Colonel Francona, we have talked about the fact the U.S. has announced these air strikes, which I know you don't think was a very good idea to actually announce it. But one thing they haven't done is give a time line. Do you expect that something like this would push up the time line?

FRANCONA: Yes. Colonel Leighton said something very important here. This will galvanize the Pentagon to accelerate their planning. I think that we have been looking at this in two pieces. We look at an Iraq piece and Syrian piece. And everyone is focused on the Iraq piece first, what we're going to do.

And Jomana said, we have blunted the momentum. We kind of stopped the momentum with the airstrikes. And the Iraqi army starting to stand up and the Peshmerga making advances in the north. So we have stopped the advance.

Now, we're going to roll them back up and push them back toward the Syrian border. Most what have we're seeing happen is taking place in Raqqa, in the self-proclaimed capital of the Islamic State where ISIS is headquartered. And I think this is going to change our equation on maybe we shouldn't be looking at this sequentially. Maybe we need to look at this simultaneously.

So, we may see airstrikes in Syria on a much more accelerated scale. And I think that's important, because we need to look at this as one target set. Not two target sets, which we have been doing. And I think this might be the catalyst that moves the Pentagon toward that thing.

So, we may see air strikes sooner than later. That may be an unintended consequence of what happened on the ISIS planning. KAYE: Understood. I want to share with our viewers just a little bit

more about David Haines. Take a moment and -- for a closer look at who David Haines was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): David Haines was a father and a husband. But he was also a hostage of ISIS, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

Captured in March 2013, working at a Syrian refugee camp for French aide group, ACTED. Haines had more than a decade of experience doing aide work, providing logistics to Handicap International and working as an unarmed peacekeeper with nonviolence peace force.

He grew up in Scotland, proudly wearing a kilt for his wedding. His family has declined to comment, but their plight is clear online: his wife Dragana waits for with their 4-year-old daughter in Croatia where they live.

His teenage daughter from his first marriage makes it clear online how much she misses her father by answering just three questions. What's missing in your life that would make you very happy? "My dad being at home," she answers.

As his family waited, David Haines had become a pawn in the game of hostages now played by ISIS.

Atika Shubert, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: Let me get straight to Nic Robertson in London.

Nic, you have new information.

ROBERTSON: Yes, we understand now that the prime minister, David Cameron, is going to head back to 10 Downing Street, his office. And tomorrow we're told, tomorrow morning, he'll hold what is known here as a Cobra meeting. This is the top level cabinet security meeting. He will meet with all his senior security officials, defense, security, police, all those -- all home office, all top-level security officials, as well as other cabinet members will be there.

This is really an indication of just how seriously he is taking this latest development -- Randi.

KAYE: And, Nic, give us a sense while I have you just how much of a threat ISIS is within -- I guess in terms of recruiting and in terms of British citizens joining up and fighting the cause. How much of a threat is ISIS within Britain?

ROBERTSON: It's a huge threat. It is recognized at the moment. And the threat level went up just recently based on that here, that threat -- an attack could be imminent. The understanding here is that many hundreds, possibly 500 young men

from Britain have gone, transited through Turkey and joined ISIS. And they're fighting with them. Some of them want to come back. Some of them have come back. Some of them have been arrested. Some of them are standing trial right now for what they have done inside Syria.

The government is trying to find ways at the moment to tackle that. They're trying to figure out if they can essentially take their passports away from them when they come back. In essence, deny them statehood.

They're not able it to do that, but they have increased the police powers to question these people when they come back to remove their passports for a predetermined time, a period of time that can then be extended.

And, of course, the concern beyond that is that these men will come back to Britain with the aim of perpetrating attacks with their lessons learned inside Syria. Britain is familiar with this methodology. It has seen it several times over with people coming back from Pakistan and al Qaeda training camps there.

They build not -- they not only learn how to build bombs, but they build networks, and it's those networks of communication between these different groups, not only in Britain, but the between these different groups throughout Europe that makes them hard to thwart. It is a major concern here right now.

KAYE: Yes. I mean, ISIS has reached into all of these countries and throughout the region. It's just terrifying, quite honestly. I want to continue this conversation and continue to share the very sad news about Britain -- the beheading of another British citizen, David Haines. We'll continue that and we're going to take a quick break. We'll pick it up on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KAYE: Hello, everyone, I'm Randi Kaye.

CNN breaking news right now: it appears that the militant group ISIS has done it again, executed a Western hostage and put the graphic evidence on the Internet. The apparent victim this time, a British aide worker, David Haines.

Forty-four years old, he was abducted a year-and-a-half ago while working to help refugees at a camp in Syria. Haines is a third ISIS captive whose death was recorded and the video released to the Internet. Both Haines and his killer spoke on camera. The mass executioner railing against Britain for its involvement in airstrikes against ISIS positions in Iraq.

The video then shows another man believed to be British citizen Alan Henning. ISIS militants then threaten his life, just as they have before with the others. Joining me now, senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, CNN

military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, CNN national security analyst, Bob Baer.

But, first,to CNN political commentator, Ben Ferguson, who's also joining us.

Ben, you say this will spur David Cameron to act.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. And I think it's going to make David Cameron's position that he laid out in parliament even more clear. And many of the citizens will rally behind him after seeing this.

And what we should all take away from this is, no one is exempt from the list of ISIS. If you think that if you don't take the lead in a nation or you hold back a little bit or you don't call it war against ISIS, that your citizens are going to be exempt, you're lying to yourself. ISIS wants to fight everyone that they believe disagrees with their life or gets involved in any way.

And I think David Cameron now is going to have the ability to go and look at other allies and take this lead and say they are going to come after our citizens, they're coming after your citizens, and it's time for us to take on ISIS. And I need your full support. And I think he's going to get it from a lot of people, because ISIS is not going to go away on its own.

KAYE: Let me bring in Christopher Dickey, the foreign editor of "The Daily Beast". He's also joining us by phone.

Christopher, I'm sure you've been following breaking news here for the last couple hours or so. Tell me your initial thoughts.

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, THE DAILY BEAST (via telephone): Well, my initial thought is pretty much in agreement with the previous comment, which is that ISIS wants this fight. It wants to bring the West into the war. It may regret wishing for that at some point. But that is what it's trying to do. Even as it tells David Cameron back off, as it tells Obama to back off, they're not fools, they know these beheadings are inciting public opinion in the United States and Britain.

The question is, what are the United States, Britain and their allies actually going to do about it? I think ISIS believes that they can create enough confusion in the region, which God knows is already confused enough, so they can essentially continue to operate and that the kinds of alliances that the west is trying to build, while this may be hard to understand for many Westerners, are not going to hold together well. And I think we have already seen a phenomenal alliance that Secretary Kerry is putting together is a very shaky one indeed.

KAYE: So, Bob Baer, in terms of what we know about who is ordering these horrific beheadings, what is our intelligence on where these people are, and who is making the calls?

BAER: The last known spot, they were outside Raqqa in a military facility that belonged to the Syrians. The assumption, as I understand, is that after the release of hostages, they're quickly moved to other locations. There's no clear, you know, signals going in the hostage takers you could follow. And that's why the rescue earlier this summer failed. I think they got to the right site, but they had already been moved.

These people are aware that we have an ability to scoop up everything out of the air. And that's why they go to mobile Wi-Fi, for instance. Or they go to Internet cafes to communicate, one-time communications. And in the military, Delta Force and SEALs like to have some sort of real-time intelligence and eyes on the hostages, which they couldn't get.

You know, it was a brave raid, but if the intelligence isn't any good, it's not any good.

KAYE: Right. Colonel Francona, what does this mean for boots on the ground? Has this changed that?

FRANCONA: This might. You know, as we see more and more of these horrific acts and we see ISIS not backing down, and the difficulty in assembling a coalition of anyone willing to do this, I think it's becoming clear to the United States that we can't outsource this. That if this is a threat to the United States, and if we need to have this fight, as Christopher said, ISIS certainly wants to have this fight. If we mean to do this, we're going to have to do it ourselves.

And I know that it is a politically difficult thing for the United States to do. We're tired of war. The American people are tired of war. The administration does not want to take us to another war.

But at some point, we are being taken into this. The other side gets a vote, as well, as to whether there is going to be a war. And I'm afraid that at some point it's going to be American boots on the ground.

KAYE: Colonel Cedric Leighton is also with us.

Colonel, take us inside, if you can -- I should mention, you're a former member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Take us inside if you can to the war room. I mean, what will be some of the discussions?

Nic Robertson mentioned that tomorrow British Prime Minister David Cameron will be meeting with his advisers. What is happening right now and should be happening right now in terms of the Obama administration and the discussions going on?

LEIGHTON: Well, Randi, the basic thing that would happen, first within the Pentagon, the various joint staff members would get together. There will probably be a session of the Joint Chiefs of Staffs themselves, the heads of all of the military services and the chairman and vice chairman. And they will probably provide further refined options to the president.

And that will, of course, include collaboration with central command, which is the unified command that is responsible for the Middle East for this region of the world. And then the White House, of course, will be following this. They will convene their own principles as they call it, which is a level where they will, you know, look at the different possibilities that are there that will take the war planning to an area where what can be done, what is feasible, where is going to work, what targets do we have, what do we know, how good is the intelligence, how accurate is that and do we need further intelligence?

And so based on all of the things that they look at, they will look at what we can possibly do in the near-term, how long it would take to mount an effective operation against the Islamic state fighters and what would happen, you know, in that case, what are the consequences of this and how likely would it be that they're what they call collateral damage? In other words, the inadvertent killing of civilians or noncombatants or something like this.

So there is going to be a lot of work that goes on in this, and it wouldn't surprise me if elements of this process aren't meeting already.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: I want to share also a little bit about David Cameron. He was tweeting -- the British prime minister actually tweeting. He sent this out: "The murder of David Haines is an act of pure evil. My heart goes out to his family who have shown extraordinary courage and fortitude."

Nic Robertson, we know the family, his family had sent that message to ISIS: "We are asking those holding David to make contact with us." They didn't hear anything back. But coming up tomorrow, I believe you said there is a very critical meeting that the British prime minister will hold. What do we expect from that?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We will expect a very firm statement from David Cameron. And he will no doubt couch this in the terms that we have heard and his tweets tonight. But it will be more sophisticated. It will reflect what he hears from his security chiefs at that extraordinary cabinet meeting that he'll be having tomorrow morning.

Incidentally, we have just heard that David Cameron is now back at Number 10 Downing Street already. He changed his plans and has gone back now and will no doubt be working on this already. We can certainly expect he will be beginning to set out his message to try to get that political backing he needs to take firmer action against ISIS. This -- and not only that, he's going to go into this knowing that another British citizen is very likely the next in line to meet this fate. He knows he's going to go through this again in a few days time, as well.

KAYE: His actions are certainly going to be watched, because, Nic, we were talking earlier, and the notion that Scotland is looking to break away from Britain, from the U.K., that has certainly been the prime minister's priority, if you will. This changes things, certainly, doesn't it?

ROBERTSON: You know, it does. Tomorrow morning and tonight, it's going to be about ISIS.

But I do have to say, the Scotland issue for Prime Minister David Cameron is such a huge issue. The reality is that the vote is on a knife edge. It's too close to call. After 307 years, Scotland could break away from the rest of Britain. That would be something this prime minister or any prime minister would not want on their watch or going down in history that they were the one that was in power at the time. So this is a massive issue.

But no doubt, the longer-term is ISIS. It continues to be a threat for Britain. His security chiefs, intelligence chiefs continue to tell him that ISIS is a threat for Britain. And he has to deal with it. Despite what's going on in Scotland.

KAYE: Absolutely.

We'll continue the conversation with our panel, so stay with us as we continue to follow this breaking news right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KAYE: Breaking news tonight. An ISIS video released today appears to show the terrorist group has executed another hostage, British aide worker, David Haines. The video, entitled "A Message to the Allies of America," was posted to Twitter today, and looks similar to previous videos we saw showing the beheadings of American journalist, James Foley and Steven Sotloff. The executioner, who sounds like the same man who appeared in these previous videos, directly threatens British Prime Minister David Cameron.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ISIS MEMBER: Your evil allies of America, which continues to strike the Muslims of Iraq and most recently bombed the Hadifa dam, will only accelerate your destruction. And playing in the role of the obedient lapdog, Cameron will only drag you and your people into another bloody and unwinnable war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Haines was helping to provide humanitarian relief in Syria when he was abducted in March 2013. The 44-year-old is a long-time aide worker who has helped victims of conflict since 1999, according to a Paris-based relief organization.

Joining me now, our panel, senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson; CNN military analyst; Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona; and Jomana Karadsheh in Baghdad.

Jomana, let me ask about the reaction in Iraq to American troops and the announcement that about 475 more troops will be heading to Iraq and also the air strikes. What is the reaction there on the ground?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the air strikes, Randi, these are very welcome. Even enemies of the United States here, Shia militias that fought the U.S. military here, are welcoming these air strikes. They have seen what advances this is -- what this has actually allowed them to do. They have been able to advance in those certain limited areas where these air strikes have been taking place. So they have seen the benefit of this and they agree with this.

When it comes to advisers and trainers and security for the embassy, this is approved by the Iraqi government. They agree with this.

Iraqis do tell you, Iraqi officials say they need more. They're really concerned. They see their military as very vulnerable, especially after what we saw happen in June when the military pretty much crumbled in the face of that ISIS threat. Now that same military, when the United States left here in 2011, the U.S. said it was leaving behind a capable and ready force, and obviously this was not the case. So they do realize now, and they are asking for more support when it comes to training, advising, equipping and arming these troops.

The one thing all Iraqis will tell you, officials and also Shia militias that fought the U.S. here for a long time say they do not want combat troops back in Iraq. The one thing they don't want to see is another occupation again, and this is how they view it here -- Randi?

KAYE: Colonel, you were shaking your head pretty dramatically there.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, this is a real problem. And I understand the sentiment of the Iraqi people not wanting another force of occupation, but somebody has to deal with ISIS. And as she has said, the Iraqi military right now is not capable of doing that. The military we left in 2011 might have been, but their training and advice from the U.S. stopped in 2011 and was allowed to atrophy over the next three years.

So right now, there is not a force capable of doing this. The U.S. air power is capable of making an impact and, as well, some of the Iraqi special forces and security units and the Peshmerga, they're able to blunt the offensive from is. But they're not able to turn it back yet. We still keep seeing stalemates in the fighting around Tikrit. Neither side can gain the advantage. So it's going to take more than what we have right now. And more air strikes might be the key to that. But unfortunately, it may require an additional influx of American troops.

KAYE: Let me bring in Christopher Dickey, former editor of "The Daily Beast."

We talked about what you call the president's red line here in the fight against ISIS. What do you expect that will be?

CHRISTOPHER DICKEY, FORMER EDITOR, THE DAILY BEAST (voice-over): Well, Randi, it's exactly what we said earlier in the week, and exactly what the colonel was just talking about, where the president actually draws the line is against an occupation force. The United States, under his watch, is not going to occupy an Arab or Muslim country or any other country again. That's what he understands to be a disastrous policy. That's what he was saying was a disastrous policy when he was talking about the Iraq invasion in 2003 as a stupid war.

So we may have more boots on the ground. That's kind of a -- that's a kind of fake issue, oddly enough. When is boots on the ground boots on the ground, if that's your measurement? Is it when there is 400? Is it when there is 1,600? Is it when there is 10,000? The problem for Obama is really when those boots on the ground are viewed as an occupation force, not an assistance or an aide force in fighting against an aggressor like ISIS. And I think that's a very clear distinction in his mind.

And frankly, I think it's a very clear distinction in the minds of the American people. That's why air strikes are supported. You see that in the polls. Ask the American people if they're ready to send another 100,000 people in Iraq and Syria to occupy that territory, and I don't think you'll see much support for it.

KAYE: Bob Baer, what do you make of the reaction, you know, from the Arab states in terms of -- you saw Secretary of State John Kerry -- I'm sorry, we don't have Bob Baer anymore.

Nic Robertson, let me turn to you.

In terms of recruiting efforts, you know, when you see a horrible video like this, which now is the third one we have seen, does that inspire those who want to be radicalized and want to fight alongside ISIS?

ROBERTSON: The anecdotal evidence we're getting here in Britain from people involved in de-radicalizing young men who want to go to Syria and fight is affirmatively yes. In the past few weeks, they are saying that even more people are converting to Islam and joining the fight, or want to join the fight or want to go to Syria. So this is something that really stimulates them.

These are young men that are learning a radical version of Islam, a completely incorrect version of Islam. They're often learning online. They're learning in small groups. They're motivated for something different in their lives. And they see these videos, see these killings, and for them it stimulates them. And the real concern is, they will go and then they will come back.

So you can imagine the sort of -- if you have hundreds going, and you don't know precisely when they're coming back, that takes a massive security effort for Britain to stay on top of that. The same for France. The same for Denmark. The same for Belgium. All across -- all across Europe, this is a big problem right now. Several thousand foreign fighters are believed to have joined ISIS.

KAYE: And, Colonel, what about the land grab that ISIS has been a part of? They're rich. They have a lot of money. They have robbed banks. They have taken huge amounts of land. Very different from al Qaeda. FRANCONA: Yeah. But this could be a disadvantage for them. Because

now they own this territory, they have to defend it. And any time you have got territory that you have to defend, that's something we can attack. We have always talked in the past, how do you attack these terrorist groups, because you don't know where they are. They move very quickly and don't really have territory that you can bomb. ISIS has territory. They have got buildings. They have got command and control. They have a capital. They have set up a government. These are targets that we can go after.

So in one side, it's good for them and it's bad for them. So I think this gives us an opportunity. If you look at the size of the area that they own there -- and somebody said it was the size of Belgium -- this is a huge portion of territory, and of course, they don't recognize that border. And I think that we would be very prudent to not recognize that border either when we go after these targets.

KAYE: When you look at that map, Colonel, does -- you look at those countries, what's -- who has the greatest hesitation in joining us and joining the fight?

FRANCONA: Well, you would think that we would have ready-made allies in the Saudis and Jordanians, because they have also been directly threatened by ISIS. But if you look at how far away they are, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, and can sit back and watch what happens before they have to commit to the fight. And even if ISIS goes down further. They actually own the roads that go down to the Jordanian border and Saudi border. But even if you incur into Jordan or if you go into Saudi Arabia, you're still hundreds of miles from any population centers. So they feel relatively safe, because they've got geography on their side.

The Iraqis do not. This is a real threat. If you look at the red swath there, that's basically the Euphrates and the Tigris Valleys. That's the heartland of Mesopotamia. That's the areas you want to control if you're going to control Iraq. That has to be reversed. And we're going to roll this back slowly. But we can't do it sequentially. We have to do it simultaneously.

KAYE: Let me bring in Representative Adam Schiff from California.

Representative, thank you for joining us.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: First, let me get your reaction to what this terrible news we're reporting tonight, the beheading of David Haines.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (R), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think people around the world, myself included, are just appalled at this latest act of savagery. Here was someone who was there to provide aid and assistance to refugees, and they have such little regard for human life or decency, they're going to execute someone providing that kind of assistance. It just is medieval and barbarity.

KAYE: And at this point, what do you expect the administration will do and what do you think they should be doing?

SCHIFF: Well, I think the president laid out a pretty good strategy that the secretary of state now is trying to assemble and strengthen the coalition to implement. That won't be changed principally by this, although, it may certainly motivate some of our coalition partners, the more they see this is a threat not just to the United States, but to nations around the world. So it will have the effect of steeling the resolve of many of our coalition partners. But frankly, there have been so many thousands of victims of ISIL over the last couple of years, these are just the most blatant reminders to the West that we're not immune from this kind of violence.

KAYE: What do you make of the criticism of the administration and that they missed the boat on ISIS and didn't respond and didn't understand how quickly this terror group was growing?

SCHIFF: I think the administration certainly understood that this was a growing threat in Iraq. I don't think any of us predicted that the Iraqi military would melt away as fast as it did. We were aware there were problems within it. We certainly were aware of the increasing degree to which Nouri al Maliki was governing in a sectarian way and sowing the seeds for a very substantial problem in Iraq. But I think that quick disintegration of the military took us by surprise. You know, I don't think we can lay that at the feet of the intelligence community, though. They gave us some of the warning signs. It's a bit like trying to predict an earthquake. You can see pressure building up on the fault lines, but knowing when it's going to materialize, how quickly it can disintegrate, those things are very hard to predict. And our intelligence agencies, as good as they are, don't have a crystal ball any better than the rest of us.

KAYE: When you see a group so filled with hate, who would do something like this now three times, not to mention all of the others that we haven't seen that they have executed in mass executions throughout the region, what should we be concerned about in terms of what we know? I mean, is our intelligence good in terms of what we know on ISIS and the threat to the U.S.?

SCHIFF: It shows how barbaric they are. And there is no negotiating with someone that is going to excused journalists and aide workers. They're just going to have to be, as the president said, degraded and ultimately defeated.

What I think Americans should know is a couple things. Probably the principle threat to Americans who are not in the region, not in the theater, is that many of these Europeans who are flocking to Syria and Iraq right now to join the fight are going to try to come home one day and attack us on the homeland. And the additional threat, which is a non-ISIL-related threat, is we have a very potent al Qaeda branch that is working on trying to smuggle explosives on to our plane, on to our aircraft. And that's something we can't lose sight of either. Even though al Qaeda in places like Yemen have been eclipsed in terms of publicity and recruitment by ISIL, they are probably the more immediate threat to our homeland than ISIL is at this point.

KAYE: Let me go back to Nic Robertson, who is in London for us. Nic, we were talking about the threat to the United States. What is

the threat there in Britain in terms of intelligence? Are they comfortable with what they know about ISIS?

ROBERTSON: No. They want to know more. And I think our guest here makes a very, very strong point. And we're talking about Yemen there, where there's a man called Ibrahim al Asiri, al Qaeda's top bomb maker. Yemen itself has a small group of al Qaeda there that is dedicated to put the bombs, the underpants bombs, the printer bombs, trying to put bombs on flights into the United States. Now, this is a part of al-Qaeda that is -- specializes and tries to target the West.

Now, what we have seen in recent days is that this group in Yemen, al- Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, says that they support the founding of the Islamic State, ISIS, by Baghdadi, that they support this organization. There is nobility between these groups. And if you team up, ISIS's network in Europe and, potentially, in the United States with the bomb maker and with this group in Yemen that now gives them support, this is what we see al-Qaeda increasingly doing, able to move a little more around the world or at least move information and move individuals. That, itself, poses a very potent threat. So not only do you have the people who have been recruited from Britain and the other countries from Europe going and joining the fight, the danger that they come back, some of that -- the danger is they may come back, teamed up with a level of expertise that has come from an al-Qaeda group like that in Yemen that supports the Islamic State, ISIS.

KAYE: All good points, Nic.

Let me bring in Jim Sciutto, our chief national security correspondent.

Jim, you were listening to the conversation, I believe, that I was just having with Representative Adam Schiff, of the Intelligence Committee. Did you have a thought only that or a question you wanted to ask the representative?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): I would like to ask Representative Schiff -- it's great to have him on as a member of the Intelligence Committee -- where the U.S. intelligence -- how much U.S. intelligence has improved on tracking foreign fights as they return home, Americans certain, but also our partners in the U.K., France, et cetera, that they track foreign fighters returning from Syria, home, where they may -- and this is the worry -- carry out attacks. I wonder if you think, Representative Schiff, that tracking has improved in recent weeks and months.

SCHIFF: General, I think it has improved. But I'm still not comfortable with where we are. In the first instance, we try to prevent people from leaving the United States. Our European colleagues are trying to prevent the same. But it's very hard to determine when someone is going to Turkey on vacation or when they're going to Turkey as a transit point to get to Syria. Sometimes you have better visibility once they're actually in Syria or Iraq. But there are literally thousands of them. And tracking the small number of Americans is one thing and I think we're doing a pretty good job of that. Tracking the larger number of Europeans that can come back to Europe and have ease of free travel back to the United States, that is a mammoth job. And unfortunately, it's only going to increase over the next several years. I think this is going to be a threat that plagues for the next decade, trying to keep track of these people that now have experience in warfare, savagery, and have been radicalized in this way.

KAYE: I'm happy to continue this conversation.

But I want to bring in General Richard Denet (ph), who is joining us from London.

General, thank you so much for your time.

What can you tell us, if anything, about the options now that Britain has on the table in terms of dealing with this latest news and greatest threat as it seems to be growing?

KAYE: General, can you hear me?

All right, we seem to have lost him.

Jim Sciutto, you're still with us. Was that answer satisfactory to you? And any other thoughts?

SCIUTTO: I think that one of the challenges here is figuring out exactly how imminent the threat is to the U.S. homeland. Because there's been a walking back of the urgency of that in recent weeks where you hear U.S. official, including the president, talking about how the threat from ISIS is something that could develop today but today there's nothing credible and specific. And that is true. But, for the sake of Americans, so they'll understand what the urgency is, how concerned should they be, that ISIS is -- and there's a number of ways that can attack the U.S. homeland. You have Americans who fight for ISIS, what do they do when they return home? You have Europeans who fight for ISIS, who could easily, without a visa, travel from here to Europe and back to the U.S. and potentially carry something out. You also have other recruits via the Internet and elsewhere, ISIS sympathizers, who could be radicalized much perhaps like the Boston bombers, and carry out attacks on their own back in the homeland. Now, these are all potential things. They don't have any credible or specific threats that any of those things are about to happen. But those are real possibilities.

And I think one question that has to be clarified from the administration, just for the sake of Americans piece of mind and understanding of the urgency and the need for military action there, is exactly how imminent is that threat. Is it months, years down the line? Or could it happen more immediately?

KAYE: Colonel Francona?

FRANCONA: Yeah. And, Jim, that's a great point because we keep hearing that there's no credible evidence of a threat, an imminent threat to the United States. But it's almost like a talking point. We've heard it from how many government officials over the last couple of days? And we were talking earlier with some of the other members of the intelligence community, and when we hear that, it just sounds like -- there is a lot of chatter out there. I talk to a lot of people in the intelligence community, and they tell me there's a lot of chatter but nothing we can put our hands on. This is almost reminiscent of pre-9/11.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANCONA: You know there's something going on. But as the congressman said, you know there's an earthquake coming, but you don't know when.

KAYE: Right. Absolutely.

Listen, we're going to keep our panel here with us. Certainly an interesting conversation covering this tragic news, the beheading of this British citizen, David Haines. We will continue the conversation after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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