Return to Transcripts main page
DR. DREW
Jodi Arias Returns to Murder Scene?; MMA Fighter Charged in Beating of Porn Star
Aired September 2, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi Arias going back to the house where she murdered her boyfriend. She shot, stabbed, and
slashed Travis Alexander to death. I`ll tell you who`s allowed to return to the scene of the crime.
Plus, hundreds of private naked pictures of Kate Upton, Jennifer Lawrence and others, hacked and posted online for the public. Who did it
and why?
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. I`m joined by co-host, Samantha Schacher.
And coming up, a bunch of people are defending the MMA fighter who is accused of a savage beating of his porn star girlfriend.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Right, Dr. Drew, and some people on social media are actually attacking the alleged victim calling her all
sorts of terrible names. I`m actually going to share some of those tweets later.
PINSKY: So interesting that this woman, because of her career objectives, now is assume -- or her career path, is assumed to be a good
victim. So we got to make her more of a victim. Fantastic.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
PINSKY: All right. First up, though, speaking of victims, Jodi Arias, and she is not the victim, she is the victimizer. She`s returning
to the house where he murdered her victim, Travis Alexander. A judge is allowing her investigator to access the scene of the crime on her behalf.
She is in jail. She`s representing herself in the sentencing phase of the trial.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he alive when he was stabbed in the heart?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he alive when he was stabbed in the back of the head?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) pointing a gun at me I would stop. As he was lunging at me, the gun went off. I didn`t mean to shoot him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t remember.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then? What factors influence your having a memory problem?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Usually when men like you are screaming at me or grilling me or someone like Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant should be sentenced. No unanimous agreement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a few short weeks she will win the fight for her life representing herself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No jury will convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I`m innocent and you can mark my words.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Judge Sherry Stephens has granted Jodi permission to go back to the scene of the crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ultimately, my family is consistent that we all believe she deserves the death penalty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: I feel so sad for that family.
And joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar of AnahitaLaw.com, Segun Oduolowu, host of "Wired In with Segun" podcast, and Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of
HLN`s "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL", author of "Exposed: The Secret Lives of Jodi Arias." It is now available on paper.
Now, Jane, why the need to go back to the place where she murdered her ex-boyfriend. Now, she`s not going. Her investigator is, but apparently,
this apartment, this house had been completely renovated. It`s not the same place.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Yes, the people who live there want no part of this case. They have a child who doesn`t know that it was a murder
scene, Dr. Drew. This was all part of Jodi`s obsession with Travis Alexander, the trial where she was convicted of premeditated first degree
murder was an extension of her revenge plan where she assassinated his character after killing him and this is going to be more of the same.
The retrial to decide whether she lives or dies is coming up. She has already hijacked it into and turned it into a mockery, representing herself
and now going back to the scene of the crime? Are you kidding me?
First of all, what she`s going to see there? Everything`s been taken out. It has been completely redone. New carpet.
PINSKY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: New everything.
This is just pulling focus, getting attention, once again, back on her.
PINSKY: Segun, mockery -- is she making a mockery of the whole thing?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I find it hard for her to make more of a mockery of the theater of the absurd. I mean, 12 buffoons
who found her guilty of murder couldn`t figure out how to sentence her? I think that would be easy.
Then you have a judge, this is where I would like to get on Anahita`s case about how silly the legal profession has now become.
PINSKY: Oh, don`t worry, that`s my job.
ODUOLOWU: Granting a murderer back into the home.
You know what? The only thing I really feel nothing for, I feel nothing for the family that lives there. You bought the murder house. So,
you know what? Like you knew someone was murdered in that house. The fact that they want to send them there, I don`t feel anything for that.
I just can`t imagine it could get any more absurd.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t blame the judge. She doesn`t want it give Jodi Arias a chance to appeal. She is being smart. It`s Jodi`s fault.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ANAHITALAW.COM: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: But if I`m Jodi, I`m doing everything in my power to live. Listen, if I`ve been found guilty of murder and I still haven`t been
convicted, of course, I`m going to do everything -- I`m going play this, let this ball roll down hill as far as it`s going to go. They want me to
do go to the house, I`m going.
PINSKY: But if -- but, Segun, if you`re grandiose and in denial about something you`ve done -- Anahita, do you think she can even call herself to
the stand?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, look, of course, I think she is doing the right thing to represent letter self. I think it will help her.
PINSKY: What? Why?
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me tell you why, let me tell you why.
Like you said, or someone on your panel mentioned, this is going to be a whole different jury. These jurors didn`t hear her testify for 14 days.
They didn`t see her day in and day out talking about her life. She`s not going to humanize herself. They need to see her talking and those jurors -
- .
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So, you`re saying that the more she talks, the better?
SEDAGHATFAR: The more she`s humanized, Dr. Drew. We saw in the initial trial, those jurors can convict her of murder. They found that it
was pulled (ph), but there were four hold-outs. I think because they got know her. They saw her talking about her life, about her family. They
couldn`t put her to death.
PINSKY: Right. Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes, the more she talks the more she contradicts herself. And the only reason why Jodi Arias is representing herself is because she
is so narcissistic and manipulative that she actually thinks she can do a bet are job than anybody else. And that`s the really frustrating part
about all of this, is that she is also capitalizing on her 15 minutes of fame. She wants to make a mockery --
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Apparently, she doesn`t want cameras in the courtroom.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She wants to die.
Death would be the ultimate freedom. Oops never mind. I take it back 5 minutes later.
SCHACHER: That`s exactly right.
PINSKY: So, you`re both saying that the cameras are going to be in the courtroom?
SCHACHER: She wants the cameras. She just doesn`t want any of us to think that she actually cares to have the cameras there. Just like Jane
just mentioned, with the whole after she was charged with murder, she told in her first interview, oh, I want the death penalty.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Sam, what would you ladies do? You`ve been convicted of murder. You`re on trial. You`re fighting for your life. And you`ve
already said that she`s a narcissist.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about show remorse?
ODUOLOWU: Remorse isn`t going to save her, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about I`m sorry?
ODUOLOWU: You don`t save her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re wrong. If she showed remorse and took some responsibility for the hideous actions that she committed --
ODUOLOWU: Nobody get her, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She hasn`t shown any remorse. In her allocution, the last time around, she whips out a survivor t-shirt and still taking a jab
at Travis --
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Here is the thing, Jane, everyone has called her a narcissist and all of these things, she`s still alive. They couldn`t kill
her.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly, that`s the point. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that she did testify.
And, Segun, you can`t blame the judge here because this is a death penalty case. So, of course, the judge is going to give her leeway, give
her more ability to do what she wants because you really don`t want to create appellate issues. And for like you --
ODUOLOWU: I just found it absurd. I didn`t blame them.
SEDAGHATFAR: And for people like you that want her to get a death penalty, you should be glad because if she does get death, you want to a
clean sentencing, a clean conviction.
PINSKY: If there is, can there an -- there will be like an appeal, right?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, no, this is the second time. With a hung jury, she gets 25 with or without parole this time. Death is off the table.
PINSKY: Right there, right there. We`re going to leave it.
Next up, I`ve got one of my jurors so-called from the Jodi Arias trial. We have -- there she is Katie (ph).
And later, nude pictures of some very famous women have been made public on social media. We`re going to try to figure out who would do
that. Why they would do that. What that says about us and how we can protect ourselves.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, holy night, the stars are brightly shining, is the night of our dear savior`s birth, long lay the world in sin and
error pining until he appeared and the souls felt its worth, a thrill of hope, the weary world rejoices, where yonder brings a new and glorious
morn, fall on your knees, oh, hear the angel voices --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, my, Jodi Arias.
Sam, let`s bringing on the behavior bureau. Jena Kravitz, clinical psychologist, Jennifer Keitt, life coach, Danine Manette, criminal
investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal".
Jodi Arias is going to be allowed to send her so-called investigator to the house where she murdered her ex boyfriend, Travis Alexander six
years ago.
Now, Danine, the house is completely different. What in the world could he possibly find there? Is this just some kind of stunt?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I think it`s a stunt. I think it`s just to make sure that she gets what she asked for so that we won`t
have appellate issues. Just like Anahita said in the last segment. I think she`s been asked for a whole lot of things just to make that happen.
But also, Dr. Drew, a lot of people like to return to the scene of the crime. They like it get caught up with the aura of the death. It is not
something so farfetched that somebody wants to go back to the scene of their crime.
PINSKY: Jennifer, you are shaking your head, no, please no.
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: I mean, I understand that we have to walk through this legal process, Dr. Drew, but it so sad for Travis`s family.
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: They cannot get healing. They cannot get healing in the situation when she continues with her narcissistic ways, parading herself
through the media, through everything. And, by the way, I believe that she is defending herself so she can have spin control over the story. So that
she can have spin control over what happened and how she`s portrayed. This woman is absolutely insufferable. I`m serious.
PINSKY: And, Jena, is this grandiosity? She thinks she is smarter than everyone else, or is it some sort of the denial of the circumstance
she`s in? What do you think?
JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, when I first heard this case, I thought to myself, this woman is defending her life. Maybe
she is anxious. Maybe she`s in constant fight or flight.
Then, I started looking at all of the evidence. I started looking at some of the tapes and watching her at trial. And at the end of the day, we
have a woman with a history of antisocial personality traits and grandiose thoughts, who is intelligent and calculated. And every single move that
she has shown us to this day is consistent with somebody who really thinks out every step here.
So I think this is kind of like one of these big "screw you" to the family, to the media. Like you caught me first, you caught me doing that,
but you`re not going to catch me now. I`m not getting the death penalty. I`m fighting for myself here because I`m better than anyone else who can
defend me.
PINSKY: Sam, you reacted to that?
SCHACHER: Yes, no, absolutely. There are so many things that I want to say here.
Jennifer, you mentioned family. Jena, you just did as well. And that`s what is so sad about this, that she found so many ways prior to the
trial to draw this out. And then during the trial, she found ways to draw out. And now, here we are again.
And, of course, during the trial, she had -- she didn`t waste any time maligning Travis Alexander at all. And the family just can`t catch a
break.
And then also, I don`t understand, what does she think she`s going to uncover anyways? Like a smoking gun? This isn`t the criminal trial. This
is sentencing phase.
PINSKY: Sam, it`s like O.J. Simpson looking for the real murderer. He is back there to find who really killed Travis Alexander.
Danine, do you think it`s that, and do you think ultimately she`s going to get the death penalty?
MANETTE: I think she probably will, but I think she doesn`t feel as though she had enough time in front of those jurors last time to really
pull them all into who she is. I think she feels like if she is up there, everyday and she is talking to them and they get to know the essence of who
she is and she can charm them, then maybe she can get a hung jury.
PINSKY: Jena, there is that manipulative core again, right?
KRAVITZ: Right. So, I was going to say I agree and I agree with what Anahita said was that she is doing this so she can humanize herself. And
again, calculated, motivated, intelligent, smart.
PINSKY: Oh.
SCHACHER: Nauseating.
PINSKY: Oh, the phone, I have our own Katie Wick. She was in the courtroom almost every day at the Jodi trial.
Katie, what do you think about Jodi representing herself?
KATIE WICK, DR. DREW JUROR (via telephone): Hello, Dr. Drew. Good to talk to you again.
PINSKY: Me too. We missed you.
WICK: Yes, me too.
I think -- I`m not surprise at all and I think -- I really don`t think it is so elevate herself. I think she is trying to delay the inevitable.
Her goose is cooked regardless. She`s going to spend the rest of her life in prison regardless.
But I think this goes more to delay the trial to hurt Travis`s family and to hurt Travis`s friends. She can no longer hurt Travis, right? So,
what better way to delay the trial, put more pain on the family, more suffering on this family.
And I just -- I`m not surprised one bit. You know, you guys were talking earlier about her representing herself and her talking and is it
going to sway the jury. I sat in that courtroom, as you know, every single day she`s on the stand. And when you`re in there, Dr. Drew, and you`re
hearing her talk, she wears on you.
She does not come off as this sweet little thing. She comes off very different. Two days into her testifying, the sound of her voice, it just
annoys the heck out of you when you`re sitting there. It is completely different.
I mean, she was on the stand for 18 days. She is representing herself. This could go on for three or four months, potentially. So, I
think if anything it`s going to hurt her.
PINSKY: Thanks, Katie. Are you going to be in the courtroom again?
WICK: I`m going to try, between -- I`m in law school now. So, I`m going to try -- my law school is three blocks from the courthouse. So, I`m
going to try to get there as much as possible in between. I`m going to be -- my classroom overlooks the courthouse. It is ironic to be in the --
PINSKY: Spiral out of courtroom into lawsuit school. Amazing. Katie, we`ll check in with you. Thank you so much for joining us.
WICK: Thank you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I have a lot of questions still. Let me ask Jennifer -- why do you think we are so preoccupied with this woman?
KEITT: Look at it. I mean, I have to say, just looking at her, she is very charismatic. She pulls you into her story. She looks like
somebody unfortunately, that you want to be involved with. And she is using that to the nth degree.
PINSKY: I`m sorry, Jennifer, just limited time.
And, Jena, is that it? Is that the nature of the syndrome? And behind that, is there not contempt for all of us?
KRAVITZ: She loves the drama. We heard her called -- we heard her labeled as border line personal disorder. She likes the drama. But more
importantly, as one of these sociopathic people, she wants to be relatable.
What she doesn`t understand here is that she is transparent. We just heard from the juror that she was transparent within day two. So I think
if she thinks she pulling one over on everyone, but I`ve got news for her, she`s not.
PINSKY: Danine, last word, drop your bomb.
SCHACHER: Yes.
MANETTE: I think people love to hate her. I think that they think she`s so -- she thinks she is so great and she`s so pretty and she`s coy.
People just want justice serve. They just want her to get her just reward. They are sick of her. And they want her to go away.
PINSKY: We`ll leave her at that. Next up, the man accused of a savage beating is defended on Twitter.
And later, you`re going to hear from women who`s private nude photos were made public, hacked, public, without their permission. Downloaded,
put on the Internet. What if that happened to you?
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNA JAMESON, CHRISTY MACK`S FRIEND: She`s having even more problems because of the way people are treating her on social media. They`re
building him up and saying that she deserves it because she was the porn star.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The First Amendment gives wide latitude for people to spew this offensive outrageous stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a person, you know, and he`s not an animal. You guys have painted him to be a monster. And he is not Bundy, he`s not
Gacy, he`s not Dahmer, he`s none of those people. So, I think we need to just be more objective and lock at different sides of the story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Well, joining us, Sam, is Evy Poumpouras, former special agent with the Secret Service. Segun Oduolowu is back. Anahita
Sedaghatfar.
Fans of mixed martial arts fighter War Machine have started a heated battle on Twitter. They`re using the hashtag, "free War Machine" to raise
money and send support to the fighter.
He is accused of having assaulted adult film actress Christy Mack. She posted these photos of her injuries on Twitter. It`s not good.
Sam, share some of the tweets that used the #freewarmachine.
SCHACHER: Oh, there are so much disturbing tweets, Dr. Drew. But there are a couple that are in support of War Machine. First, I just hate
saying that name.
From Francis, "Bottom line, if a woman cleats on you, in my honest opinion she deserves a beat down. Just my opinion. No one has to read
this." Assuming she did cheat on him.
From Breanna, "If a woman wants to fight like a man, what do you expect? You`re going to get hit like a man."
PINSKY: Segun, you wanted to talk?
ODUOLOWU: Yes. Well, Dr. Drew, as you and I are the only men on the panel right now, and what bothers me most about this story -- I`m not
getting into Twitter and the First Amendment. What I am going to say is that this guy is a trained fighter. So, he gets paid for a living to beat
people up. When you put your hands on a woman, which you should never do as man, that`s despicable.
The fact that they defending basically a trained fighter, to me speaks -- again, theater of the absurd, it makes no sense. However, this is where
what bothers even me more, when she posted the pictures of herself to social media, she invited social media into her nightmare. And as we have
said on this show numerous times, this is social media, Twitter, it`s not the place for sympathy, it`s not the place for the faint of heart, and you
will get these types of monsters and ludicrous kids spewing this kind of venom.
So, she never should have posted those pictures. I`m not trying to victim shame, I have no love lost for a guy named War Machine. You just
can`t do that --
PINSKY: OK. You just recommending this thing out of the social media fray, if you`re in a delicate frame of mine.
It seems like there are two groups of supporters on Twitter. Those who say War Machine deserves to tell his side of the story. Let`s let
justice takes its course and those who call and blame Christy Mack, they call her a liar, they call her a lot of things.
Now, Evy, I understand getting the whole story out. I understand letting the wheels of justice turn. But blaming the victim?
EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: You know, we talk about this a lot on different crimes, how a victim`s behavior can invite crime.
But I have to say this, I don`t care what the victim did, you should not beat someone, man or woman, to the point that woman was beaten. Now I
know some of the things that war machine is saying is that he felt in danger and he defended himself. You defend yourself to a point, and then
you leave. This is not defending this clear battery as we see in the pictures.
But I agree with Segun, saying, and the fact that he`s saying, if you`re going to put this out there and put your personal life public,
you`re going to invite the positive with a lot of positive with the negative.
PISNKY: Now the lawyer for War Machine says he has unfairly painted because he is an MMA fighter. Anahita, do you think that`s what we are
doing, we`re biasing him?
SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t know, Dr. Drew. I`m the first to say, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But when you look at those pictures, how
can you say this was self-defense. She is a petite girl. She has black eyes, bruises all over her body. Her teeth are knocked out.
And I don`t like people commenting on Twitter about her, blaming the victim, saying it was her fault, she deserved it. It`s totally wrong.
PINSKY: And what is it Anahita, with them blaming her because of her, you know, if she was a stripper or a porn star, therefore she deserves
abuse? What is that thinking? It`s bizarre, right?
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s not going to look good if this goes before a jury, OK? She is a porn star. That`s not going to be a sympathetic thing. But,
yes, a lot of people are blaming her for that. She deserved it because she is a porn star, she`s a slut. I think that`s totally wrong.
PINSKY: Right. Sam?
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, it`s misogynistic thinking, Dr. Drew, and I went on a lot of these supporters` Twitter profile just to see how they talk some
of the things that they advocate for. And wow, oh my gosh, do you -- birds of the same feather flock together. It just it doesn`t surprise me
when you go.
Even some of their Twitter handles. I wish I had some on the top of my mind. One that comes to mind is alpha male, something, something.
Another one, and then you read his tweets, and they are derogatory towards women. And it just goes to show, of course, they`re going to support War
Machine. They share the same belief system.
PINSKY: And, Segun, one of the things Jenna mentioned said steroid abuse and rage. So there is a lot of stuff going, maybe, going on here.
ODUOLOWU: I just wanted to come to Sam, I read that guy`s Twitter page too. Alpha Male and the language he described to describe women, it
is not even fit to even publish. It is so ridiculous.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.
ODUOLOWU: And, you`re right. Fans of this man.
I just -- here is the thing, we live in this atmosphere and climate that a woman if she dresses whatever we feel is too provocative, people
will actually say she is asking for it. No one on this earth asked for what this woman`s pictures display.
PINSKY: Evy, last word -- Evy.
POUMPOURAS: You know what is sad --
PINSKY: A lot of it.
POUMPOURAS: A lot of case where we had -- a lot of case like this, especially when you`re dealing with prostitutes who are beaten, which
happens often. A lot of times, they don`t get prosecute -- they don`t prosecute the offender because the victim is not going to be -- people are
not going to empathize with the victim. And this happens, and this is quite common and you are kind of seeing it here. Where everyone is kind of
debating whether she is guilty or not. I mean, she was beaten, regardless of what she did for a living.
PINSKY: All right.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, T.V. LEGAL ANALYST/DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And, she even says he beat her in the past. It makes you wonder, is she a battered
woman? Battered women syndrome.
PINSKY: Yes. How much battery do you have to get to be a battered woman?
KARAMO BROWN, TELEVISION HOST: But, Anahita --
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they were together. They were together.
SEDAGHATFAR: One time is enough. Girls need to understand that.
PINSKY: All right. We got to leave it. I am bringing Jason Ellis on here. He knows this man. He knows MMA. He knows what we are talking
about. He is going to be here. Join me. Help me straighten some of this out.
And, later on, bring Evy back. Talk about the nude photo scandal. Who would steal the naked photos of famous? How they do it? Why do they
post it? What is with us that we look at these things? And, what can we do to protect ourselves? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL EUGENE KOPPENHAVER, WAR MACHINE`S BROTHER: He is a person. He is not an animal. You guys have painted him to be a monster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNA JAMESON, CHRISTY MACK`S FRIEND: My main concern here is not only the fact that she was beaten within inches of her life, but the fact
that the fight community, the UFC, Bellator, all these people were are not standing up for the victim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Jason Ellis joins me now from Sirius XM Radio. Jennifer and Jena back as well. We are talking about the Twitter
#freewarmachine. Fans of the MMA fighter are using it to rally support for him. Jason, first of all, what do you think about what Jenns was just
saying there?
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: I was there for that statement. And, I am not a huge fan. I think that she is talking about the UFC. He
is not in that organization. You are expecting Dana White to make an apology because this moron beat a woman. It does not make any sense. I
feel like her personal problems in her life, this might be a little bit -- she is like reflecting it on herself a little bit.
My main concern is, everyone is saying it is an MMA fighter. Yes, he is a professional fighter. It does not matter if you are tough. I do not
care if you are big or you are small. If you hit a lady because she cheated on you, I do not care what she did, there is no circumstance.
Everyone is argument -- well she had a commoner, anybody who cheats -- it is just insane.
The kid who tweeted that has a mother. If the mother read that he tweeted, well, let is say if she did it to me, she would have it coming.
Dude, if you are listening. Come to my house and show me how tough you are threatening girls. I do not care if you are tough or you know how to
fight, if you touch a chick, you are done.
PINSKY: And Jennifer, I think Jason makes a really an important point, which is, that kid is mother read what he is writing. You know what
I am saying?
ELLIS: Everybody has a mom. When did you get that tough? Hurting women is just crazy. What is that?
JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: It is interesting that he should mention that. Dr. Drew I was in 5th grade when I saw my mom`s face like that,
when, my father was the one, saying, "Yes, she deserved it."
PINSKY: Wow.
KEITT: So, I absolutely believe what Jason just said is absolutely the truth. We have got to get beyond their titles, MMA and porn star and
look at the fact that we have a huge domestic violence issue right here in front of us.
This is a man and woman and violence is no way to solve a relationship. So, how does it affect when you see your mother like that?
It absolutely unexplainable. It is unexplainable and unexcusable.
PINSKY: And, Jena, I do not know which are you following, but I just want to say, certain personality styles go together and these two are a
classic example, you know what I am saying? And those sorts of personal its can be volatile together.
JENA KRAVITZ, PSY.D. CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. She is in an occupation that involves, sex, drugs an rock and roll. It does not make it
right. But what I was going to say is that we have a bigger issue here. We have seen this before.
Remember, the free Kobe campaign. When Kobe Bryant was accused of rape and infidelity and all that, eight to 10 years ago. People were
rooting for Kobe Bryant to be free in the same way that they are supporting this fighter. People we have to stop supporting these celebrities who are
causing --
PINSKY: Wait. Because the Kobe thing I am going to take the issue a little bit. Is it not the case, a lot of that was built around, let us get
the facts out. And, I think that is what this guy`s family is appealing for. And, the people that say that, "All right, you cannot argue with
that." Let is do get the facts out. However, the facts do not look very good. If they are anything close to what they appear to be, this guy is in
big trouble, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes. Just look at the photos. I think that is enough factor right there. Also, him running and hiding from the police. If you
are innocent, if you are defending yourself, which is not the case, but if that were the case, then you could not feel the need to hide from the
police, period. And, Dr. Drew, we are getting an onslaught even more tweets. I cannot even read some of them. The producers will not allow me
to.
PINSKY: What is that, Jason?
ELLIS: Meet me at the gym. It is up the street. Meet me at legends. All the tough dudes to tweet violence on women, come to my gym,
because you are not telling the truth. Tough guys do not tweet that.
SCHACHER: Yes. Thank you. Here is a woman, though. Here is a woman trying to make sense of it, defending the War Machine saying, "Make some
crazy to see her with another man. Proves he is not a bad guy." Wow.
PINSKY: What?
ELLIS: OK. Can I just say one more thing?
KRAVITZ: Excusing her behavior.
ELLIS: I actually know a little bit more about this story through the MMA community.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
ELLIS: That war machine, or whatever your name is, you tool -- it was not exactly -- like all the stories that happened, it is not exactly
true. And, I believe that. I think that they are both to blame. That is usually what crazy people do.
PINSKY: You mean, there was something a little more? There was something a little more going on than the original story?
ELLIS: But it does not matter. Even if she was so evil -- I know guys that hit that hard. You cannot hit normal people with that. It is
like a death blow. It is crazy.
PINSKY: Yes.
KEITT: Since when do our fists answer infidelity. Since when is it OK for me to slap you, hit you, punch you, kick you, stab you, because I
sleep with somebody else. That is not wait you solve relationship issues, period.
PINSKY: Jennifer, I completely agree. Jason, sometimes guys snap when they are exposed to certain things. Men are crazy that way. They
become animals. And, if you are on steroids or something, it might be really hard to contain some of that impulse, right?
ELLIS: Men and women are crazy. I agree. I do not think that he is entirely to blame, I just feel -- like especially when you trained your
whole life on how to inflict punishment so well, you know what you are doing when you hit somebody, like he has gone into fight mode.
PINSKY: Yes.
ELLIS: So, you blacked out and start doing your mixed martial the arts on your girlfriend.
PINSKY: That is no good.
ELLIS: Your brain -- it is not right.
PINSKY: Jennifer -- No. It is not right. It is not OK. There is nothing OK about it.
ELLIS: It is no excuse.
PINSKY: It is no excuse. It does not matter what the facts are. There is no excuse for that. Now, we are going to switch topics. Jason,
stay with me. We are talking about famous women who are exposed. They thought their naked photos were private. Now millions of strangers have
seen them. How, why? What about us? Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (1): Tucker Hunt, nude pictures stolen from celebrities` phones. The FBI now on the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (2): Jennifer Lawrence, Kate Upton, are among the celebs who are targeted apparently. Apple acknowledges there was
a security flaws in its iCloud technology that made the photos vulnerable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (3): You are exploiting a woman`s body for everyone to see without her consent.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Agents will interviewing the alleged victims and will likely be in touch with Apple in an effort to find out who
the hacker or hackers are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER (4): But, as momma always told me, take a nude picture of yourself, give it to someone else and you lose control of
your own body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Evy, Jason, Anahita. Reps were both Jennifer Lawrence and Kate Upton have authenticated the photos and say they will
prosecute anyone who posts them. Now, Sam, some of the celebrity victims have taken to twitter.
SCHACHER: Yes. They have Dr. Drew. A number of them have. So, for instance actress, Mary Elizabeth Wine said, who was one of the actresses
targeted, she tweeted, quote, "Knowing those photos were deleted long ago. I can only imagine the creepy effort that went that this. Feeling for
everyone who got hacked."
Also, Kirsten Dunst, who is also targeted simply tweeted, "Thank you, iCloud." And, then, lots of support for the victims is surfacing on
Twitter, too. For example, actress Lena Dunham from "Girls." She tweeted, "Seriously, do not forget that the person who stole these pictures and
leaked them is not a hacker. They are a sex offender."
PINSKY: Jason, you agree with that, sex offender?
ELLIS: Wow.
SEDAGHATFAR: No.
ELLIS: That is a little drastic.
SCHACHER: What?
PINSKY: Anahita? No?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. It is not a sex crime. These are not sex offenders. This is criminal hacking. They should be brought to justice.
But, Dr. Drew, have we not learned the moral of this story, because how many times have we seen this over and over again. And, I have to say, if
you do not want naked pictures of yourself out for the world to see --
PINSKY: Oh, wait. Sam has a reaction. Sam, is there something we should look for in the cloud for you? Sam, what is the matter?
SCHACHER: No, thank God. It does not apply to me, Dr. Drew. But, listen --
PINSKY: Jason -- Jason is laughing. Hold on, Sam. Jason is not so sure.
SCHACHER: Maybe there are. Who cares. Those are for me.
ELLIS: I did not say nothing.
SCHACHER: Those are for me to take. If it was me. If it does apply for me. All these women, Dr. Drew -- for Anahita, for to you essentially
blame them and say, you should not take these photos in the first place, they are in the privacy of their own home. They can take those photos.
And it is not --
PINSKY: Not only that. Sam -- hold on.
SCHACHER: Hold on. Can I finish my statement really quickly?
PINSKY: Go ahead. Sam, Sam, Sam, finish.
SCHACHER: Let me finish my statement because I feel very strongly about this. It is not their choice to go ahead and distribute these photos
for the masses to look at. The hackers cannot make that choice for them.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree.
SCHACHER: I do think that it is a sex offense, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: I agree. I actually agree.
SCHACHER: It is so violating. It is so violating.
PINSKY: And, by the way, let us not be old cudry here. Let us be realistic. Young people do a lot of this kind of thing. That is just the
fact. It happens a lot.
SEDAGHATFAR: These are celebrities. Let me be clear, here. Hold on. I am not blaming these women. I am not blaming the victims. I am only
blaming the hackers in this case. But, the reality is, they are celebrities and in this day and age, Dr. Drew, when we have Cloud, we have
all this technology, you almost have to assume that when you take pictures like this, that they are going to be leaked. It is not blaming the victim,
but it is only being more responsible.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on. Hold on. That is why I have Evy here. Evy, how can we be more responsible? Are we just naive?
POUMPOURAS: OK. We have talked about this before and we actually we do a lot of consulting with a lot high profile people, and even in the U.S.
secret service, there is an understanding when you are somebody of status, whether you are the President or you are celebrity, somebody who is out
there, you are more susceptible than the average person.
Having said that, you also have to take responsibility and take precautions to protect yourself. So for example, when you own a
multimillion dollar home, and you got Lamborghini parked upfront, what do you do? You have a nice security system. You have a gate. You have
people may be even bodyguards. You see a lot of celebrities with physical protection.
But, it baffles me how when it comes to cyber security, which is huge, a huge vulnerability, they do nothing. There are actual companies,
organizations out there, where this is what they do. In the U.S. secret service, people we protect, very, very vigilant when it came to cyber
security.
PINSKY: All right. You have to explain and I guess on the next block, what it is they need to do. Panels, stay with me. But, Jason, you
have the last comment.
ELLIS: It happened to me once.
PINSKY: What?
ELLIS: I know I am not really that famous, but somebody put my thingymyjiggyma on the internet.
(LAUGHING)
POUMPOURAS: I think you are famous, Jason.
PINSKY: Oh, Evy love you.
ELLIS: Then you should see my picture, because I look great.
SCHACHER: She is proud of it.
PINSKY: Well, the reality is everyone on this panel could potentially be the subject of something. Evy is telling us we are naive if
we think, otherwise and she is going to stay with us. The panel stays with me and tell me how to protect ourselves and you protect yourself, after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Hacked celebrities are firing back after a slew of nude photos of Jennifer Lawrence and other celebrities
appeared online, Sunday night. The photos were leaked in the website 4chan and were allegedly obtained through a massive online hack. A publicist for
Lawrence confirms the photo` authenticity and released a statement saying, the hack was, quote, "A flagrant violation of privacy."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Evy, Jason, Anahita. Evy, tell us. What do we need to do? What does this panel need to do to protect them
themselves?
SCHACHER: Please, tell us.
POUMPOURAS: OK. So, everybody out there. First of all, any time you use a third party such as i-Cloud, Google Drive, Drop Box, understand you
are giving up a lot of control. You are making the blind assumption that this entity will keep your things safe. You may be saying, well, it is
Apple. I understand, but you also do not know who works at Apple. You are assuming everybody there has integrity.
PINSKY: So, what do we do? What do we do?
ELLIS: Make sure you look good.
POUMPOURAS: All right. So, do not put any information -- do not share anything on an iCloud or Google Drive that you do not want out there.
Keep that on a hard drive at home. The other thing is, passwords, passwords, passwords. Do not use words or anything that could be connected
to something if somebody knows you or follows you on Facebook. Make a sentence or phrase. Such as "I love the Dr. Drew show 1944. Something
like that. That is a strong pass word.
ELLIS: It really is.
POUMPOURAS: These are the things you need to keep in mind when you are doing these things. And, also this is a physical possession. A photo
is a physical possession. It is like owning a home or car or having a wallet. It can be taken from you. So, always understand you are
vulnerable, all the time.
ELLIS: I am not sending you one any more, Anahita. Forget about it.
SEDAGHATFAR: Good.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Yes. Jason was going to sext you earlier, but apparently not. Let me tell you a quick story about Hilton. He was one of the first
opposed the nude photos of Jennifer Lawrence. But, there was an outcry from lead readers, and he apologized. At work we, very have to make quick
decisions. I made a decision and made it worse. I feel awful and I am truly sorry. Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes. Good for him for apologizing, because by sharing these photos, by clicking these photos, you are just perpetuating the
original in justice. I am glad he finally wised up.
PINSKY: Anahita? No?
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not know. I do not blame him, because look, web sites are in the business of making money. OK? They are not here to be
like good deed people. They want it make money. These photos drive traffic.
ELLIS: So, it is OK to do it, but it is a bad thing do?
SEDAGHATFAR: It was good that he took him off, but I can understand why they post them. What does it say about us?
PINSKY: Well, that is what I want to in a second. But Jason, that is my thing. Is that this really disturbs me. Forget it says something about
us. I know what animals men can be. But the fact that we do not take a beat and go, you know, this is really somebody`s private material. What
are we doing here? This is really disturbing.
ELLIS: On my radio show, this happens to me frequently, did you hear about so and so is lewds. And I think it happened to me because I have
friends that are famous and I can relate and I do not want my friends` wives breast to be on the internet, and I am not going to look at them if
they come out. But, really, if you -- Like Rosie O`Donnell`s breasts are not on the internet. If you look good, keep them private.
PINSKY: Evy?
POUMPOURAS: You know --
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: You were starting to say something.
POUMPOURAS: OK. The Rosie O`Donnell`s breasts completely threw me off.
PINSKY: I was trying to get back on track. Evy, go ahead. Do you have anything to say there?
POUMPOURAS: Just be diligent. If you do not want it out there, the best thing to do is just do not do it.
PINSKY: Yes, but Evy, that is so simple for us to say that. But people just are doing this. It is just a fact. Jason, do we not talk to
young people all day long on the radio? We know they are up to this in a way that is --
ELLIS: I do it.
PINSKY: You do it.
SCHACHER: Yes, big deal.
SEDAGHATFAR: May be this help him, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Evy, there is the point. Everyone says, big deal.
SCHACHER: We are adults. We have every right do that.
PINSKY: Every right, yes, but, Evy help me here. But, to do it -- do it without --
POUMPOURAS: Do it but just do not be upset though, if you are vulnerable to it. Do not be upset if you are exposed. That is it. You
can go buy the really nice Lamborghini, but do not be upset if somebody steals it from you.
PINSKY: And, why are you applauding Jason?
SCHACHER: I think you should still be upset by it.
SEDAGHATFAR: How do you know this is not going make them more famous? How do you know it is not going to build their brand even better?
You do not know, Dr. Drew. People release sex tapes and they get --
PINSKY: But, they want to do that.
SCHACHER: But, they did not have a choice.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, OK, that is debatable. I think sometimes they say that these tapes get leaked --
PINSKY: I am not talking about the tapes --
SCHACHER: They were hacked.
SEDAGHATFAR: Some people do think all publicity is good publicity. So, you never know.
PINSKY: Anahita, you are objectionable tonight.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is why I am here.
PINSKY: All right. Go ahead, read that tweet then I got to go.
SCHACHER: OK. A lot of people are giving her flak for being insensitive, she tweeted and she is 21-year-old pop star, quote to everyone
going on about my nude, my little ass is a lot cute are than that. LMAO.
PINSKY: So, young people make light of this. I do not know. I think --
SCHACHER: She is trying to.
PINSKY: Trying to.
ELLIS: It is a body. It is natural. Everybody look at it.
PINSKY: Yes, but Jason, these pictures were compromising.
ELLIS: Do not put them up.
PINSKY: Your point is well taken. That is right. Or keep them on a hard drive, or something not on your phone, not on the Cloud. All right, I
have to switch gears and talk about our friend Joan Rivers. She remains hospitalized tonight. Our thoughts are with her and her daughter, Melissa,
who wrote on Facebook -- on her mother`s Facebook page that she is now still on life support.
We are thinking and praying for Joan. Melissa -- I have known Melissa a long time. Our thoughts are really with you. Unfortunately, the
longer this drags on for a person her age, the less likely there is to be a good outcome here. I am just -- that is just from a physician`s
standpoint, that is the facts. Hopefully there is a possibility, but it is slim. Forensic Files, up next.
END