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DR. DREW
Family`s Gay Intervention Turns Violent; Cops: Woman Solicited Own "Rape"
Aired August 28, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a shocking YouTube video.
GRANDMOTHER: You have made a choice.
SON: I have been from the moment I come out of my mother`s uterus. I have been that way.
GRANDMOTHER: God creates nobody that way.
DAD: You`re a disgrace.
PINSKY: That stunning confrontation between parents and their son, because he`s gay. The teen in that video is here.
Plus, police say a woman solicited her own rape on Craigslist and then reported it as a crime.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host with me tonight is Samantha Schacher, of course.
And coming up, police say a sexy prosecutor, they`re calling her, may have had an inappropriate relationship with a convicted criminal. There he
is -- oh, there she is.
What`s up, Sam?
SAM SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew.
Police say they exchanged over a thousand text messages. She also -- get this -- sent him a picture of herself in a bikini. And he had the word
criminal tattooed on his head.
PINSKY: Well, why not? He is on. I mean, well, now you can really see it, it`s across the crown of his head. Amazing.
All right. First up, we`ve got a story of a young gay youth, a 19- year-old, thrown out of his home by his family after having staged a gay intervention, it was called. Things got tough, things got heated. They
even turned violent.
Now, we`ve chosen not to identify this teen nor his family. He -- the teen recorded the confrontation on his cell phone and many of you have
reacted to this online. So, I want you to take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID: So all of that support that you told me about --
WOMAN #1: Oh, I support you, I don`t support what you do. And we don`t support your habits.
And I have a lot of friends that are gay, but they`re friends, and they`re not related to me.
DAVID: That`s not what you told me that day on the couch, that doesn`t seem very motherly to me.
WOMAN #2: If you told me on the phone that you made that choice, you know you weren`t born that way. You know damn good and well you made that
choice. You know that this man has done everything he can to raise you, and you told me right on the damn phone that that was a choice you made, he
didn`t need to blame himself. So, don`t fill these people full of bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
DAVID: You`re twisting my words.
WOMAN #2: You twist everybody`s word.
DAVID: You`re a completely different person.
WOMAN #2: Let me tell you something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. We`re going the call the young man David. He will join us shortly.
Please keep in mind this family is sincere in their religious beliefs, even though some of you may find their views unacceptable.
Joining us Anahita Sedaghatfar of AnahitaLaw.com, Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day
Love Detox".
Anahita, your reaction.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ANAHITALAW.COM: This is so shameful, Dr. Drew. I mean, your parents are supposed to be the two people in the world that
love you unconditionally, that support you all of the time. And even if this is against the parents` religious beliefs, you don`t treat your son
this way for being gay. You don`t berate him. You don`t disown him. You don`t kick his butt because he`s gay.
My heart really, really breaks for that boy.
PINSKY: Sam, we really don`t see the violence in the video so far. What went down there?
SCHACHER: Oh, Dr. Drew, it made me skin crawl. It made me nauseous. So, yes, at the end of the video it started to get heated and the teenager
-- he remained poised and calm and continued to say it`s not a choice. This is who I am.
And then one person started to beat him and then another person you hear kind of cheering on the beating and he`s saying, stop it, stop it,
stop it. I just want to piggyback on what Anahita just said. It`s more, in my opinion, immoral to shame and ostracize your child that way. And
it`s not coincidence that gay and lesbian transgender teens are five times at the very least more like to commit suicide because of condemnation. And
that to me is the moral. People are dying.
PINSKY: And, Wendy, I worry about these people that insist on transforming someone with homosexual orientation because that increases the
risk, does it not?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, yes. And if there`s any silver lining to this, Dr. Drew, what I was heartened to see is that this 19-year-
old seemed so understanding of who he was, he knew the biological predisposition, he was trying to explain the science to his parents. He
wasn`t wavering even though he came from that household who had very different beliefs.
But to put it into context so that everybody can understand what was going on here, the stepmother, with her firm beliefs was probably feeling
very disturbed because his was challenging her religious beliefs. And that was bringing her security.
At the same time, the father was feeling shamed on Facebook. He claimed that the son had written something bad about him on Facebook. So,
you add those things and you get an escalation of emotions.
PINSKY: Karamo, I want to give you a chance here. Go ahead.
KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: Yes, I have to agree with Wendy.
And I just want to tell LGBT youth out there, that if this ever happens to you, that the first thing you need to do is you need to make
sure that you are safe. This young man was in a situation where it got escalated very quickly. And when something happens that is escalating, you
need to walk away.
Safety is first. There`s a community of support for you. I personally support organizations like bravetrails.org, the LGBT
organization here in Los Angeles. And they`re here to support you so you can get the assistance you need. I want to make sure that`s clear.
PINSKY: All right. I`m going to bring a little polemic into this. I`m bringing on the phone, Dave Pickup. He is what`s called a
representative therapist.
And, David, you yourself used to identify as a homosexual, but now, not.
So, tell me that story.
DAVID PICKUP, REPARATIVE THERAPIST (via telephone): Well, I went through authentic reparative therapy, not the junk that most media is
reporting that reparative therapy is. I`m talking about reparative therapy that actually works, whose first priority is to never shame anyone for
having homosexual feelings. But it`s very transformative, that addresses the real causes of homosexuality.
For guys -- I`m speaking of men right now -- for guys who have been severely, feel very inferior from the time you`re a little boy to your
gender identity, when sexuality and gender is first formed, and also never got enough emotional severe cases of not getting emotional same-sex needs
met at a very early age. So, real reparative therapy really works. It works for my clients, 99 percent of my clients are people for whom
homosexuality does not represent their inner most self. They`re heterosexuality and they`ve gotten off track and they heal these wounds and
homosexuality feelings --
PINSKY: Hang on. My panel is reacting here.
Karamo, first.
BROWN: Yes, David, as a homosexual man, a man who identifies as gay, I think it`s pretty appalling that you say that my true self is something
that can be fixed. This is who I am. This is how I was born.
And I really don`t understand how you`re doing therapy when the APA has said that being a homosexual is not a mental disorder. So, I don`t
understand how you`re changing someone. And what you`re doing is you`re causing young men and young women to have depression and to cause them to
feel that they need to have suicidal --
PINSKY: David, I`m sure you`re used to these kinds of criticisms. Let me put a fine point on it. Did I hear you say that there are people
that are not candidates for you kind of treatment as well? Go ahead and respond to Karamo.
PICKUP: That`s correct. I don`t force people to change. People who believe -- I have gay clients, by the way. They know what I do. We have a
very trusting relationship. Their belief system, I don`t violent. I don`t force anyone to change.
So, in response to this gentleman`s response to what I said, I`m talking about people who discovered their true heterosexuality as they were
born. Your belief system is your belief system.
PINSKY: David, let me stop you. Is that true of all men that are there, they all have, according to you, a true heterosexual core?
PICKUP: Well, I don`t believe there`s any gay gene. It`s environmental causes. So, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: The gay man, it is not an environmental cause.
PINSKY: Wendy, go ahead.
WALSH: OK, thank you. Oh, my God, I held in so long, it`s been very difficult.
I want to add a little bit of context and perspective. Based on Kinsey`s research, it`s very clear that most human beings are bisexual.
There`s situational homosexuality. There`s, you know, different times of life where we may become homosexual or behave or in thought or deed.
There`s a big gray area that most of us lie on.
At one end of the scale, there might be somebody who`s completely homosexual or completely heterosexual, both in fantasy and behavior. But
in between are the rest of us.
So, perhaps this gentleman`s clients are bisexual people who have chosen, because of cultural pressure, to behave as predominantly
heterosexual.
PICKUP: No, that`s incorrect and I`ll tell you. Because the nature of the inborn bisexuality, according to your definition is, homosexual
feelings cannot decrease naturally and authentically and spontaneously.
And in reparative therapy, that`s exactly what happens.
PINSKY: Ok, David --
WALSH: We can change our feelings anytime we want to in our life span.
PINSKY: Hang on. But, David, I`ve got to interrupt. This is obviously a very heated discussion. It`s creating all kinds of reactions
on Twitter or people are upset that we`ve invited that point of view to discuss with us, but I thought it was important that we just take a look at
what this thing is.
David, I appreciate you being here.
Panel, good job.
Next up, the teen at the center of the video is here with an exclusive. We will talk to him about why he recorded that confrontation
and how he`s doing now.
And later, did this woman really solicit her own rape on Craigslist? That`s right. We`ll get into it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Sam, I want to play you a little bit more -- remember the young man, we`re calling him David. We`re going to play a little more of
David`s video. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOMAN #1: Since you have chosen that path, we will not support you any longer. You will need to move out and find wherever you can to live
and do what you want to because I will not let people believe that I condone what you do.
DAVID: OK, I will be out by Thursday night at midnight. How about that?
WOMAN #1: All right.
DAVID: I`ll be completely out and you`ll never ever have to see me again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So sad, Sam? Really just a sad indictment.
SCHACHER: Yes, it brings tears to my eyes, absolutely.
PINSKY: Bring in the behavior bureau. Karamo, Wendy still with me. Danine Manette joins us.
And on the phone we have the young man in the video. We`ll call him David. We have his friend Denise on the phone who has come to his rescue.
And he`s staying with her now.
David, can you tell us your version of what happened?
DAVID: Yes. It was expected. There was some suspicious phone calls within the few minutes leading up to it that gave me the impression that
that`s what was going to happen.
PINSKY: You mean that there was going to be an ambush of some type?
DAVID: I feared something was going to happen.
PINSKY: Had they been so vocal in their condemnation of you before this?
DAVID: My dad has. There were indirect comments made out the topic in general, but never towards me.
PINSKY: And so, you knew they were not happy with having a gay young man if their family. Did you ever think about not coming out to them?
DAVID: Oh yes. I lived in fear of coming out to them.
PINSKY: But I got to say, Karamo, I sometimes recommend to young men they don`t come out if they know it`s going to be David didn`t know there`s
going to be a terrible reaction. But if you know there`s going to be a horrible reaction -- don`t do it. You know, you know it`s going to be bad.
Do you agree with me or no?
BROWN: I do agree with you, Dr. Drew. Of course, this is something that as I work with LGBT youth daily, I tell the youth daily that I want
you to be yourself. That`s the process I had to go through, but you have to have a safety plan. You have to figure out what resources you have,
what community allies you have.
PINSKY: Right.
BROWN: Just like this young man has. He has a friend that he can turn to, because if you`re in a dangerous position, you do not know how
people are going to react, when the situation is escalated. We want to make sure that doesn`t happen.
And also, if I could briefly say this, Dr. Drew, but I want to say that I empathize, I do not condone at all the behavior of the parents but I
do empathize with them, because as someone who is LGBT, I understand there`s a process that parents have to go through. They have to have their
own coming out process that there are resources for them. They`re like PFLAG and other things that they can go through.
So, if there`s any parent out there that`s hearing this saying, I cannot understand why my child is deciding that he wants to be open about
his sexuality, you know what, there is somebody that understands what you`re going through and can be there for you and help you, because at the
end of the day, a parent is here to love their child and support them.
PINSKY: David, how do you feel when you hear my panelist talking like that? Do you agree? Does it upset you? How do you feel?
DAVID: I do agree that all parents do have that moment where they have to go through, you know, the moment they have to go through the
emotion, everything to accept it. It`s a shame when they`re not willing to take the steps period. That`s what hurts the most.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Wendy.
WALSH: Dr. Drew I want to go just one step further. As you know, this is a really critical time for identity formation and perhaps David was
trying to establish himself, separate a little from his family of origin and this conflict was actually helping you, I hate to say it, but this sort
of helped you separate so that you can better reaffirm who you are. Because I love the fact that you understand the science, you understand the
biological news and you were able to stand pretty firm about who you are.
PINSKY: I want to get Danine in on this too, because as you know, Danine has a way of seeing things very uniquely. I`m wondering how she`s
going to add to this conversation.
Go ahead, Danine.
DANINE MANINE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, what`s said is that we teach our kids as parents to be honest and truthful and forthright and
unfortunately that was met in this situation with hostility and violence. That`s awful. So, you know, it`s probably best that he`s not living there
anymore anyway.
PINSKY: Right.
MANINE: But at the same time, this is their house, these are their beliefs, they pay the bills and he`s an adult. It`s probably a good idea
for him to take this opportunity to move on in his life, because no matter what you are and what you do, people are not going to always accept you for
who you are. So, that`s just the reality of life.
WALSH: But these are his parents, Danine.
PINSKY: It`s sad, though.
It`s sad when it`s a family of origin --
MANETTE: Very sad when it`s your family. You expect more out of your own family.
SCHACHER: Yes, I can`t imagine my family beating me, disowning me and kicking me out in the street. But I did want to bring up the silver line.
And, David, you must see all of the support that you`re getting with this Go Fund Me campaign. And I know you didn`t set it up, but somebody
set it up, and all of the messages, I was reading the messages.
PINSKY: He`s had over a million views of the video that people have donated more than, almost $34,000 now.
So, go ahead, Sam. Finish up.
SCHACHER: Yes, I just -- I hope that he -- that that`s giving him some strength right now and to just reaffirm that you`re not alone and be
you and be proud of who you are.
WALSH: And my instinct is your parents are going to come back around, David.
PINSKY: Yes, I suspect they might.
David, what do you say?
DAVID: I`m so overwhelmed with joy. I`m very blessed to have all of the comments and the messages, and everything that everyone has done, the
donations, all of that has been a big surprise. It`s been just -- it`s helping me get through the day.
I do plan with the whole Go Fund Me, that was a very big surprise to me. I want to give a portion of it back to the cause. I`m going to get
actively involved with the community organizations as I can.
I -- my main focus with the video was to meet -- I want to bring awareness to this, that this is still happening. If it saves one kid the
misery of what I went through, I will be satisfied.
BROWN: David, can I tell you something really quickly? I work with LGBT youth daily and as an LGBT man, I`m going to let you know, today, I
showed your story and your video to kids and you did save someone`s life and you`re my hero. And keep up the courage. You`re doing great work.
PINSKY: I want to give Denise one shout-out, too. She`s there on the phone with you. She`s taking you in. Denise, are you with us?
DENISE: I am. I`m sorry. That made me really emotional.
PINSKY: I bet. You want to say one thing before we go?
DENISE: This is an amazing individual and I`m so -- I`m just so blessed to have him in my life. And he`s chosen to have me in his life
because he`s an incredible human being.
PINSKY: You had to bear witness to what the parents did. What are your thoughts about what went down there?
DENISE: Well, it was disturbing to say the least. I have two of my own children, I mean, Daniel is my son my choice, and to see and to watch
that video shortly after this whole thing happened was unbearable. I mean, I can`t see it any other way. I mean it made me physically sick and --
PINSKY: OK. We want to thank you both for coming on the program.
Panel, thank you as well.
I`m certain as Karamo said, someone will are learned from this and this will not have been in vain. I hope your parents have a chance to
reflect on this. And as we said, we`re trying to be empathic about the parents needs as well. They have to have time to come around to this.
FLAG, was it Karamo, or was it, Wendy, you mentioned it, check it out, these are things that parents are dealing with these things. There`s
support out there for the parents as well as the kids.
Next up, what makes a woman advertised -- advertised -- to be raped?
And later, prosecutor and a criminal, authorities say they had a very inappropriate relationship. We`ll get into that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m 100 percent consenting to be raped.
PINSKY: That`s what police say this woman texted to a man she met on Craigslist. Investigators say she posted an ad soliciting rape with this
header.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have a deep dark fantasy?
PINSKY: Then reportedly texted at least two men who answered the ad, allegedly telling them she wanted to be duct taped, gagged and sexually
assaulted.
Tonight, she is behind bars, charged with filing a false police report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Anahita and Karamo.
And joining us, TV host Danielle Robay.
This is our most tweeted story today. We have plenty of action on the previous story, but this is the one that has caught the most attention.
Police say the 24-year-old woman could not convince anyone to rape her -- so imagine that -- so, she reportedly drove to an address where she
engaged in a seemingly consensual sexual assault, I don`t know what that means really, but it resulted in bruises, abrasions, ripped clothing, and a
chipped tooth.
Danielle, you`re ready to go.
DANIELLE ROBAY, TV HOST: I am so ready. This issue makes my blood boil because I think that false accusations of rape completely undermine
real victims. But I also believe that the man who assaulted her is entirely at fault as well.
PINSKY: Well, I don`t know about at fault.
Anahita, who is this guy that`s going the say here, you want a rape? I`m right over here. It`s a faulty person.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is. But I don`t think it`s necessarily criminal. She consented to this.
And, Dr. Drew, I think this is way more just than a sexual fantasy. She literally posted an ad saying, "I want to be raped. I want to be
beaten up." She even said, "I want to be bruised, I want a tooth knocked out."
I mean, she went and reported the false police report. I think this is more about attention.
PINSKY: For money?
SEDAGHATFAR: And mentally -- maybe for money or maybe she`s mentally ill. Well, clearly, she`s mentally ill. There`s something wrong with her.
But this is not just about a sexual fantasy. And I wouldn`t be surprised if there`s some type of drug addiction or there`s more to this
story.
PINSKY: Well, Counselor, what if she comes to you for defense?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, you know --
PINSKY: Then, she`s in?
SEDAGHATFAR: I`ll sign her up but it`s a hard defense.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes, I agree with Anahita 100 percent. This is what I thought. I was like, OK, why does she want to get intentionally beat up
and rape, and then go and report it to the police and the media? To me, it sounds like that she was doing this all for attention.
And as Danielle just stated, what infuriates me the most is there are so many people out there who are victims of sexual assault and rape, yet
they have trouble coming forward because of fear they won`t be believed because of liars like this.
PINSKY: Danielle, that`s where you`re really responding to this, is that right?
ROBAY: I am really responding. But also think that rape is a very vague idea to people and so --
PINSKY: Really?
ROBAY: I do. I think that people -- like for a crime like murder, it`s very black and white for people. What if she had posted on
Craigslist, I want to be murdered, and then a man obliged? And then that you would be looking at this man a different way.
PINSKY: Well, that`s exactly the point. What are the limits, Anahita, that someone can and cannot consent to? And by the way,
consenting in what mindset? You know what mindset? You know what I mean? Can she say she was not in the right mind? How could he have known that?
Karamo, help me with this. I`m getting confused.
BROWN: Well, I have two quick points, first of all, Dr. Drew. First of all, when she went to the police to report this, she said a black man
attacked her. And I have to say this, America, we have to stop making black men our go-to bad guys. That`s the first thing.
Secondly --
PINSKY: Wait, that`s a great point. It`s funny. You know why we`re laughing.
BROWN: It`s the truth.
PINSKY: Because you laugh when things are really truthful and they`re ridiculous.
BROWN: This is true.
PINSKY: And that`s why we`re laughing, but say it again.
BROWN: No, it`s the truth. America, we have to stop making black men our go-to bad guy.
PINSKY: Yes.
BROWN: This is ridiculous.
And then, secondly, I also -- I mean, what she`s done is despicable but I don`t know her background or history. I look at Craigslist. This is
a billion dollar business. Why are -- do they not have more policies in place to protect people and to flag the posts that are going up like this?
PINSKY: Well, let`s ask our lawyer. Is there a liability here?
SEDAGHATFAR: No, no, they`re not liable.
PINSKY: Why not?
SEDAGHATFAR: There`s case law on this, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: What?
SEDAGHATFAR: Do we really want to go down the slippery slope?
PINSKY: Stop about the slippery slope. I can`t stand it when attorneys talk about slippery slope.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is true. Dr. Drew, it is true. Who is going to make the decision --
PINSKY: We are all going to go slippery slope, we are going to be fashists because we say that they should not be able to advocate for murder
and rape on their website.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK. And, who is going to make the decision? What is next, Dr. Drew? Are they going the say you cannot put political posts or
are they going to say, you cannot put extensive post --
BROWN: But, it is not about that, Anahita. It is not about that.
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not think that we want to go down that road, not to mention how impractical if not impossible would it be for Craigslist to
monitor and sense all of the hundreds and thousands of post.
BROWN: Anahita, it is not impractical or impossible. They first of all -- Craigslist already has a policy in place where users can flag posts.
And, that is what they are using, so they clearly know that there is an issue with the post.
SEDAGHATFAR: That is very different.
BROWN: Secondly, you make millions of dollars off of people making posts. Why not employ someone or a team to monitor this?
SEDAGHATFAR: This post would not exist if that was the rule. That is why they have immunity --
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. Danielle, you are trying to get in here. Go ahead.
DANIELLE ROBAY, T.V. HOST: I mean agree. I think it is an issue of freedom of speech, and I do not care if it is a corporation or not --
PINSKY: But, wait a minute, whose side are you on, Danielle? I thought you were upset about this.
ROBAY: No. I am upset about the accusations. I think there should be individual responsibility when it comes to Craigslist.
PINSKY: All right. Sam?
SAM SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I am with Karamo here. I mean come on.
BROWN: Thank you, Sam.
SCHACHER: We have the technology today, where we can have, you know, if you type in rape or sex -- not sex. I am sure that is OK on Craigslist
with all those personals. But, if you were to type in rape or murder or anything with young children, paedophilia there has to be some sort of red
flags that pop up where they can see that. At this point, I would not touch Craigslist with a ten-foot pole.
PINSKY: And, by the way, Sam. Sam, hold on. How dare you, Sam. You started us with the slippery slope the fashion.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is true, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Why cannot we control paedophilia.
SEDAGHATFAR: What is next? What if there is a swastika posted? Then what? That is going to offend some people. Do we want to voluntarily
engage in these types of fantasies? Who is going to make that decision as to what is offensive or not.
BROWN: Well, Craigslist has it. I actually went to Craigslist and they have --
PINSKY: Wait. Karamo went to Craigslist.
BROWN: Yes. I went to Craigslist and they have a list of what is a violation of their policies. What this woman posted is actually a
violation. There are things that are violations?
PINSKY: OK. We got a whole other topic here, which is they can set policies, Anahita and still not take the liability for it, which I am OK
with that. But there is going to be some teeth to help people set sane policies. That is all I am saying. I am just saying, everybody.
SEDAGHATFAR: Slippery slope.
PINSKY: I am going to go around one more time. I am going to go around again.
SEDAGHATFAR: You do not want to go down that road.
PINSKY: I hate those arguments where we cannot set a rational President because it might send us into something irrational. I am just
saying. I get it. But, it is so fun for me, Anahita, because it is always attorneys who talk about slipperies slopes.
SEDAGHATFAR: You love attorneys.
PINSKY: I do. You know I love you. I love my attorney friends. All right, next up, violent sex. That is what we are talking about in this.
What is it that makes somebody do that and then what goes on to twist the thinking, so they start becoming accusational. Could there actually be
distortion here. We got the Behavior Bureau to talk about this. And, later, is this man the next hot felon? Sam, the hot felon. I know you
love that guy.
SCHACHER: Oh gosh.
PINSKY: A female prosecutor -- your hot felon is a different guy. I will bring him back, too, as well.
SCHACHER: Good.
(LAUGHING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Have a deep dark fantasy.
DR. DREW (voice-over): Police say a woman solicited her own rape on Craigslist, and then reported it as a crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our Behavior Bureau Emily Roberts joins us, psychotherapist, Danine Manette, author of "Ultimate Betrayal" and Wendy
Walsh still with us.
Now, this woman reportedly posted the rape ad on Craigslist. Police say, she then sent a text to a man, who responded telling him, quote, "I am
100 percent consenting to being raped." Danine what do you make of this?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: It is funny because not only does she have a rape fantasy, she has like a falling a false police report
fantasy. She got testifying at a criminal trial fantasy. She got all these things together. And, so, it is like I was wondering what was the
end result for her? What was she going for?
PINSKY: Right.
MANETTE: And, I also actually feel sorry for the guy, who fell into this thing that she created.
SCHACHER: Do not feel sorry for a rapist.
MANETTE: He may end up being charged with a crime.
SCHACHER: Yes, because he committed a crime.
PINSKY: Well, ladies -- my psychotherapist friends, was he a rapist or was he a fetishist? You know? May be he thought that she was just sort
of --
MANETTE: But, that is not the crime I am talking about. If her tooth was broken, he could be charged with battery because --
PINSKY: Yes. Right, for assault. Yes.
MANETTE: You cannot be convicted to a felony --
PINSKY: And, police reportedly discovered another text message from the woman -- to the man responding to the ad. She allegedly texted --
Danine this addresses your point, that the assault should include but not be limited to broken arms, black eyes, broken nose and fractured ribs.
SCHACHER: Broken arms? It is like a suicide wish.
MANETTE: No matter what, if she breaks her arm, he is going to get arrested for that, because you can confess on that.
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: She needs to be in the psych ward. She needs to be in the Psych ward not in jail. She is a very, very, sick
kiddo here. OK? Maybe she is an adult, whatever. This is bordering on some very personality behaviour, if you will.
PINSKY: Right.
ROBERTS: I really feel like this is not the first time she has acted out this way. She is a danger to herself and clearly other people. If she
is engaging in these very disgusting fantasies and disturbing fantasies, she needs to be in a psych ward and evaluated that.
PINSKY: Wendy, do you agree or disagree?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: I agree. I think that we do not commit crimes on people who where physically disabled, mentally disabled,
mentally impaired. She was clearly mentally disabled and this man committed a crime of battery on her.
PINSKY: Well, people have trouble understanding that. Sam, did you understand what Wendy is talking about? I actually agree with her. Would
you be able to identify that as disabled?
SCHACHER: I do not know if I would be able to identify that. I would hope I would be able to. I would hope I would see that this person does
not seem to be so rational nor would I be on Craigslist looking to rape somebody. So, just saying.
PINSKY: What is that, Danine?
MANETTE: You are not a doctor.
PINSKY: Yes. Right.
SCHACHER: That is a great point.
WALSH: Let us talk about what he was asked to do. Any normal person who is not a criminal, who may have a sexual fetish, if you are involved in
the BDSM community, you know there are rules about red light, yellow light, be careful. You have knot where you can untie in emergencies. You know
you do not leave somebody alone, but to actually go ahead and bruise and batter and break a tooth of somebody with the intention of maybe even
breaking their arm, that is a crime. That is not a fetish.
ROBERTS: And then she made up her mind though --
SCHACHER: She completely made up a story. She was at a park and the guy dragged her out of a car, not even the same guy that she hooked up with
from Craigslist. Somebody completely different. This buying black guy. I mean it does not even add up.
PINSKY: Yes. Emily, help me with this. There are some people -- Remember when Marv Albert was involved with a woman that started engaging
in these kinds of behaviours and then she turned around quickly and said, "He raped me. He beat me."
Sometimes when people have had severe traumas in childhood, they seek out those traumas again in the adult life and they are aroused by it until
they are re-traumatized and then the whole thing can be distorted. Am I wrong?
ROBERTS: So, well said. Absolutely. That is a great way to put it. And, I also think that when they are looking at trauma or when we are
looking at personality disorders, what winds up happening is these are people who have actually displayed some of these iffy behaviours before in
life.
Like this is a girl who maybe was attention seeking and got it in different ways, or she was the girl, I do not know her, so I cannot
actually say that. But, when we are looking at some of the stuff that was display in any sort of either they are texting, or was the way she is
reporting this stuff, we wind up seeing that they definitely have some issues. It is not quite normal if that makes any sense.
PINSKY: Right. And -- but you know, Wendy, people do not necessarily -- you cannot really force somebody to get treatment for a personality
disorder or trauma.
WALSH: You cannot force them to get treatment. But, I got to go back to the purp again, Dr. Drew. If you have a freaky chick who wants you to
do freaky stuff to her, do not do it. You could end up being accused of something.
PINSKY: Danine, you are smiling.
MANETTE: Yes, because that is absolutely true. You cannot consent to a crime. And, people need to realize that. No matter what her fetishes
were, she took this all away to the police. That is going to be a problem to whoever she was involved in.
PINSKY: Please put that last tweet back up again. That is why I object so strongly to that book. The tweet was something like 50 Shades of
Gray gone bad.
WALSH: That is 50 Shades of Abuse, that is what I call it.
PINSKY: So, that is the point. Culturally acceptable beyond entertainment value. This was my point about that book. It was
normalizing this behaviour we are talking about right now.
ROBERTS: He never broke her arms, but --
PINSKY: I am telling you. This was the same phenomenon in that book that was being glamorized and that is what I took issue with. I am just
saying.
MANETTE: I never read it.
PINSKY: I want all the time back I spent reading it because people like Sam insisted I do it. I am just saying, after the third book you will
fully understand why this is so appealing. No, I want every second back of my life that I spent with that garbage. Next up --
WALSH: Dr. Drew --
PINSKY: What, Wendy? Last word.
WALSH: There is one university study actually where they had psychologists code all of the behaviours in the book and they came out with
all kinds of cases of real abuse in "50 Shades of Gray".
PINSKY: Of course. Next up. They are on different sides of the law. We are going to look at a prosecutor and that convicted criminal with
"Criminal" on his head sets around the top of his crown there. How did they find themselves in an alleged affair and how bad did it get? Back
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): A deputy prosecuting attorney who is supposed to be locking up criminals, but behind the scenes visiting Matthew
Baumrucker inside the county jail. A man with the word "Criminal" tattooed on his forehead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Ms. Wright is a good person who overlooked what I think a lot of people see as some damaging things, which
are the tattoos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Wright got caught up in trying to help Baumrucker save his soul instead of sending him to prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): He came to her asking her for help and she tried to bring him into the church to help him make better decisions
for the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Jason Ellis joins me from Sirius XM Radio and Danielle is back. According to court documents, more than
1,000 text messages went back and forth between the lawyer and the inmate. He was not her client. This all happened apparently inside his jail cell -
- no, I am sorry. That happened on the outside when he was fleeing cops when he ended up in jail. He shows up with a photo of her in a bikini that
he posts. Anahita, am I right to be outraged? Have you ever seen anything like this?
SEDAGHATFAR: I have never seen anything like this. This is so inappropriate. It is unethical. And, if she did anything to assist him in
his criminal activities, then that is obviously criminal. She needs to be charged. And, it does not matter if she was the prosecuting attorney or
not on his case. There should never be this type of relationship between a prosecutor and a criminal defendant. It is so stupid.
PINSKY: Danielle?
ROBAY: I completely agree. What a weirdo. Why is she doing this? I mean she is a public prosecutor. She is representing the people.
PINSKY: Right. And, it is a miscarriage of her license, would you not say, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely, yes.
PINSKY: But, Jason, do you think we are being too harsh on her.
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Anahita would do it for me. I know that.
SCHACHER: Little bikini photo, yes!
ELLIS: I do not have criminal written on my forehead. Look, the difference is she is -- I thought that the weight lifting was a little
suspicious. I am always little suspicious of weight lifting woman. And, they always want to show photos of themselves to people. I might self look
a bit of a criminal and I have had a lot of weight lifting women try to get on me. I do not know what that is.
PINSKY: Well, that is interesting.
ELLIS: What does that say right here?
PINSKY: Criminal.
ELLIS: Right. Rgith. He is not misunderstood. He is a criminal.
PINSKY: Right. He got it right.
SCHACHER: He is advertising.
PINSKY: That is what I said. He understands who he is and what he is.
ELLIS: I mean I have tattoos and he has tattoos. Put my face next to his face. It is so much more lovable than his face. He is a very mean
man. You can see the kindness in my eyes.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Oh my God.
SCHACHER: And Jason has a heart tattooed underneath his eye. How cute and sweet --
ELLIS: I love everybody.
PINSKY: Anyway, take a look at this guy`s wrap sheet. He is a six- time felon with a record of assault, robbery, domestic violence. You know -- what Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes. OK. Here is the thing. First of all, I am so focused on us talking about Anahita in a bikini. I am so focused on that.
I have got to get that out of my mind.
ELLIS: Still in mind.
SCHACHER: But, no it is so wildly inappropriate and it has to be illegal because she was using her job title to have access to these
conference rooms to advice him, when she was not counselling him. I mean Anahita, is not that kind of taking advantage of the system? Is not she
doing something that is illegal here?
SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely.
PINSKY: It is. I got to get Danielle. Danielle, your last word.
ROBAY: Even if it is not illegal, it is completely unethical. I mean where is her judgment at?
PINSKY: Yes. That is right. You got that right. Next up, this guy, the guy with the "Criminal" on his head, not the wolf, who got the
"Criminal" on his head. He is giving the so-called hot felon that Sam liked, there he is, a run for his money. I will have an update on that guy
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): Everything she did was designed to put him on the straight and narrow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (2): Spokane police turned up evidence that Wright helped him avoid arrest on an outstanding felony drug warrant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER (1): She used poor judgment in making some decisions. Unfortunately, she was in a position in her own life where this
got out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Emily, Jason, and Anahita. A prosecutor exchanged more than 1,000 text messages with a man fleeing the police at
the time. Even if they caught him, they found a photo of the lawyer in her bikini inside his cell . Her lawyer says, she was trying to rehabilitate
him. Because, Anahita, God knows, that is what attorney`s job are.
SEDAGHATFAR: No.
PINSKY: And, of course, to get as close as possibly and violate all boundaries. And, then she is highly trained to help a guy that has issues
like this.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, if you put it that way, Dr. Drew, come on, no. This woman was so unethical. She was so brazen and she was so stupid
because she went and visited this guy in jail numerous times. Did she not understand and realized that they keep records. They keep logs. These
things are on video.
She was not representing him. She was not the prosecuting attorney on this case. And, really I think that the D.A`s office needs to probably
open up all other cases that is prosecuted to make sure there were not other that she is capable of doing something like this, can you imagine?
ELLIS: Yes. Get her, Anahita.
PINSKY: Wow. Emily, you looked a little surprised from that. I think she is not far off from our previous trauma survivor --
ROBERTS: Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. Talking about psychological irony here.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBERTS: You are having an intimate relationship with someone that has "Criminal" written on their forehead. The advice I would give him is
go get laser tattoo removal if you want to be taken seriously. If you are looking at me for advice in rehabilitating you, get rid of this first,
right?
PINSKY: And, we did by the way reach out this attorney for comment. We have not heard back. Go ahead, Jason. Go ahead.
ELLIS: I got tons of issues and I love girls in bikinis, but you are not going to fix me because of that. You are going to have to do way
better.
PINSKY: Now, the case -- Now, Sam I know you want to talk here, but before you do, I want to remind you about the case of Jeremy Meeks. This
is Sam`s favourite, right?
SCHACHER: Give me a break, Dr. Drew.
ELLIS: Give us all a break.
SCHACHER: OK. You love to get on my case about Jeremy Meeks. All I have said from the very beginning, and you cannot argue with the fact that
he is beautiful. He is very attractive.
ELLIS: In that photo, he is -- In that photo --
PINSKY: Jason, go ahead.
ELLIS: It was just one angle. Look at all of the videos. She is a sketchy creepy looking dude. It is one photo. All the rest of the photos
he looks suspect, because he is suspect. How could you fall in love with him? He might as well have criminal and train wreck written across his
face.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: I never said I fell in love with him.
ELLIS: What is wrong with you?
SCHACHER: I am just saying that he is good looking. I like to actually look at people for more than just physical appearance, his
character and the size of their hearts.
ELLIS: He has terrible character.
PINSKY: What is the matter with you? Then you have terrible judgement on top of that.
SCHACHER: I am just saying --
PINSKY: I am just saying. Since last time -- we got her, Jason.
SCHACHER: Oh my God.
PINSKY: Well done. He is been moved to federal prison since we last heard about him. He does not have a modelling job. Sam, I am sorry to
tell you. But, he does have two agents, apparently.
ELLIS: Gross.
PINSKY: Emily, we have a minute here. People who are attracted to the bad boy thing, it is kind of a phase for some women but for people who
consistently do that, it is a problem.
ROBERTS: Well, we do not know about her, but the thing that I find really interesting is she is a bodybuilder. She has a lot of self control
there.
PINSKY: But, maybe some body image stuff and some trauma stuff?
ROBERTS: Possibly. And, then you are attracted to this really bad boy image. Maybe it was more like a thing. Maybe she has more of a fetish
in some catastrophe. I do not know her but at the same time, there is a control issue for sure.
PINSKY: Got to go, guys. But, before we all go, I want to remind everybody about Joan Rivers tonight. She has had a serious medical
problem. We are thinking of you tonight and sending best wishes your way. She had an operation on, CNN said her throat, others have said her vocal
chords and others said had pulmonary arrest. We wish you the best. Forensic Files, now.
END
