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CNN NEWSROOM

Cease-Fire Holding in Gaza; Burger King Controversy; New VA Scandal Report

Aired August 26, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Ana Cabrera in for Brooke today.

And after seven weeks of deadly Israeli airstrikes and nearly constant rocket attacks from Gaza, at this hour, peace is holding between Israel and Hamas militants. In fact, we are just three hours into that latest cease-fire agreement. This one is open-ended, so no expiration date at this point.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas just announced it earlier today. So there was gunfire in Gaza, but this was actually part of the celebration. Leaders there are calling the cease-fire a victory.

Peter Beinart is here with me in New York now. And Peter is a contributing editor for "The Atlantic" and "National journal."

Peter, what exactly is in the deal?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The remarkable thing is how similar this is to the cease-fire deal that was hatched in 2012. It's very similar.

There is some moderate easing of the blockade of Gaza, as Hamas and most Palestinians really wanted, but the big easing has been pushed off to the future and demilitarization of Gaza, which is what Israel said it really wanted, has also been kicked down the road into the future.

After all of this terrible, terrible bloodshed and trauma on both sides, it looks a lot like we're back to where we were at the beginning.

CABRERA: And on that note, Reza Sayah is live in Cairo right now, where the two sides just met today.

Reza, what can you tell us about today's negotiation?

REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, first off, we should clarify that the Israelis were not in Cairo today.

This agreement was made with Palestinians here and other Palestinian factions in Doha and the Palestinian territories. This agreement certainly tops the fighting. That is good news. But it cannot be called a groundbreaking deal; it cannot be called by any measure a watershed because for the simple reason it doesn't address the core demands and the core issues on both sides.

According to the Egyptians and Palestinians, this agreement is essentially the same initial agreement that was on the table here in Cairo one week ago today that the Israelis, according to the Palestinians, rejected. It makes you wonder, why did so many more lives have to be lost for us to get here?

Briefly, let's give you the terms of these agreements. According to the Egyptians, it calls for the Israelis to ease the blockade, not lift it completely, ease it so humanitarian aid and construction material can get across the border. It also calls for Israel to extend the territory or limit for fishermen off the coast of Gaza and it also calls for both sides, the Israelis and Palestinians to get back here to Cairo at some point, we don't know when, to start engaging in those indirect negotiations that have repeatedly failed over the past few weeks.

Now we wait to see if Hamas stops firing rockets, if Israel indeed follows through with their promises and finally if the two sides get back here to start negotiating again.

CABRERA: Peter, I think it's interesting because when we first heard this deal announced, it seemed like there was some hope that this could be a long-term deal, but as you pointed out and Reza, it seems like it could just be the beginning of another cycle that we have been seeing of the pause and the violence. It just goes on and on.

What is going to break that cycle?

BEINART: The only thing really that's going to break that cycle, I think, is a political change.

Hamas is entrenched in the Gaza Strip. As much as Israel hates Hamas and fears Hamas violence, Israel has no way to get Hamas out of Gaza. And I think the only way ultimately that is going to happen is some kind of political horizon that allows Palestinians to choose a new leadership.

This cease-fire may last for a while, but the larger issues, which is a blockade that still is maintained, Hamas as a political party which doesn't accept Israel's right to exist, and perhaps most importantly of all no prospect for movement towards a two-state solution that ultimately allows Palestinians a state of their own and allows Israel to have a recognized border, I think, ultimately, tragically, you could be right back in this again at some point in the future.

CABRERA: All right, Peter Beinart and Reza Sayah, thank you so much.

Turning now to the growing threat of ISIS in Iraq and Syria, a U.S. official tells CNN that President Obama has authorized reconnaissance flights over Syria, a potential first step toward locating the ISIS targets inside Syrian territory. That could lead to airstrikes. But the Pentagon press secretary just last hour, we brought it to you live, would not confirm any U.S. spy flights or any plans for U.S. airstrikes over Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: I don't talk about intelligent matters, Tony. I'm not going to start doing that today. We're a planning organization here. We have to be prepared for all kind of options. And with respect to providing military options, we're going to be ready to do that, but I'm not going to get into the details.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Let's talk more about the use of airpower now to reduce this ISIS threat with former NATO Commander and retired U.S. General Wesley Clark.

General Clark, good to see you. Can airstrikes defeat ISIS or will there ultimately have to be a ground campaign to stop this terrorist group?

WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: I think you're going to need a ground campaign, but not from U.S. troops. I think there are plenty of ground forces in the region. They have just got to be motivated and organized in such a way that they will fight and they have got to be directed.

The United States can play a behind-the-scenes role in that and we can facilitate with diplomacy and economic help. We can provide a certain amount of information. We can certainly provide combat multipliers like the airstrikes, but, yes, people have to be on the ground and they have to identify the other force and take it out on the ground.

CABRERA: Well, why wouldn't airstrikes work in this case? I know you led a successful 1999 NATO air campaign against Yugoslavia during the Kosovo war.

CLARK: Well, it's a good question because the difference is profound. There, we had a dictator in Serbia, Slobodan Milosevic, and we were really working against his mind.

We knew what his expectations were. And he knew the ultimate threat of an invasion in Kosovo. So, the airstrikes showed NATO cohesion. They showed the fact that we could ramp up the escalation and they showed him that his defeat was inevitable.

In the case of ISIS, they are a revolutionary movement and they are dispersed across the region. They are no hard targets. There is no good economic targets for the United States to take out. They're not really a state, although they call themselves the Islamic State.

And so you're dealing with groups and bands, organizations moving around in pickup trucks, as well as heavy equipment. There must be central coordination to this. There is a headquarters somewhere. Our intelligence can find it and we can strike it, but it will be distributed and redundant. And so really to clean this up, what has to be done is that these

fighters have to be taken down and governance has to be established, effective governance in these areas.

CABRERA: Several Republicans in the last couple of days, we're talking about John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Paul Ryan, they have been very critical of the Obama administration's lack of action or maybe a hesitancy to take action, especially in Syria. How do you rate the U.S. response so far?

CLARK: Well, I think the United States' response has -- actually, all the ingredients are there. We have got the presidential forces on the ground and we have got airpower in the region. We have had some 1,500 air sorties in the last few days.

So there's a lot of activity going on. But I think we need a strategic response, not a spasm of airstrikes to please administration critics. What we need is a smart response from the people on the ground, the governments, the Kurds, the Iraqis. The Saudis need to be involved in this because their money helped cause the problem in the first place.

So the Saudis, all of these regional countries are threatened. They need to pull together in a strategic way to go after ISIS. And I think the administration is busy trying to make that happen behind the scenes.

CABRERA: We talked to Josh Rogin with The Daily Beast in our last hour, who talked about his interview with the Free Syrian Army and how they are ready and willing to be the boots on the ground for the U.S. and for other countries who may have an interest in stopping ISIS.

Could that be a realistic solution here for the Free Syrian Army to provide our intelligence or even function as these boots on the ground?

CLARK: I think the Free Syrian Army could do something against ISIS, but I don't think it's the solution. I think it might be part of the solution.

It's got to be put under strong political control. It needs to be reinforced. It needs to be directed properly. It needs to be cohesive. And then it can operate as part of a larger coalition. But, as it stands now, given its strength and fighting capabilities, it's not capable of standing against ISIS alone. It's going to need lots of partners in the region, not just U.S. air support.

CABRERA: All right, General Wesley Clark, we will end it there. Thank you so much for your time and good to have you with us.

CLARK: Thank you.

CABRERA: We're just learning about an American man who traveled to Syria to fight as a jihadi who has been killed now, this according to his family.

Let me bring in CNN's chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto.

Jim, what more do we know about him?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This is a remarkable story. It's an alarming story.

This is an American with all-American name, Douglas McAuthur McCain, 33 years old from San Diego, California. I spoke with his uncle earlier today, Kenneth McCain, and he confirmed to me that the family was notified by the State Department in the last 24 hours that Douglas McCain was killed fighting as a jihadi in Syria.

The family saying to me, the uncle saying to me the family devastated by this, that they are just as surprised, in the uncle's words, as the country that this is what his nephew went on to do. They say he was raised a Christian and that a number of years ago he converted to Islam and at the time did not raise any issues with the family.

The family respects all religions and they did not know that he was going to fight in Syria. Douglas McCain told them that he was traveling to Turkey. They said he liked to travel. It was only when they were informed by the State Department in the last 24 hours that they found that he was going to fight as a jihadi in Syria and that is, indeed, where he died over the weekend.

This is an incredible story, Ana, and it really gets to an issue that U.S. officials and that intelligent officials have been concerned about for months now. I have received a number of briefings on this. The threat with ISIS, it is not just to Iraq and Syria, as severe as that threat is. It's also to the American homeland and to Europe because ISIS has been a magnet for more than 100 Americans joining the fight there, ISIS and other groups there, and more than 1,000 Westerners from Europe.

The concern of intelligence officials is, when these fighters return home, which they can do very easily, the Americans of course have American passports, the Europeans have European passports, they can go home without visas, their concern is that they are being trained and encouraged when they return home to carry out attacks on the American homeland and Europe against Western targets.

And indeed there's already been one of these attacks taking place in Europe. It happened in Belgium a few weeks ago, when a returning fighter from ISIS carried out an attack on a Jewish center there.

CABRERA: I know we're still gathering information about this case specifically, but do we know how this young man was recruited?

SCIUTTO: We don't know. We do know this. We do know he made some postings. He was on Facebook and Twitter, as many of us are, and he posted some things that showed a sympathy for these extremist groups.

And this is something that intelligence officials watch very carefully and that is something that can raise flags for intelligence agencies in terms of tracking Americans and other foreigners like this who make this decision to go fight there and die there. CABRERA: All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

CABRERA: Up next, it could be a huge clue into exactly what happened when a police officer shot and killed Michael Brown.

A man who lives near the scene says he recorded audio of the gunshots that were fired that day. We have that audio. We will play it for you next and we will talk to an expert who will explain exactly what you're hearing.

Plus, CNN broke the story about the long wait times at the Phoenix VA hospitals. Well, an internal documents stated at least 19 vets had died because of delays in simple medical screenings, but just about an hour ago we now have learned the findings of a federal investigation and it's telling a much different story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: From an autopsy the family ordered, we now know Michael Brown was shot at least six times. And now we may have a better idea of just how many times Brown was shot at.

CNN has exclusively obtained some audio that could be from the last moments of Michael Brown's life. It was recorded inadvertently by a man who was apparently living near the shooting scene who was on a video chat at the time. So, you hear him talking as the gunfire rings out in the background. Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty. You are so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNSHOTS)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CABRERA: You hear a whole bunch of pops, about 10 seconds total in that audio clip.

CNN has not been able to confirm the authenticity of this recording but, a law enforcement tells us that the FBI is working to verity that audio clip.

What does that involve?

Let's go to Paul Ginsberg, the forensic audio expert with us who has worked with the CIA, the FBI, the ATF, and the list goes on.

Paul, first, I want to listen to that clip once again and again try to ignore that man's voice in the forefront here.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty. You are so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNSHOTS)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CABRERA: Paul, the attorney who represents the man who recorded this told CNN she hears 11 gunshots, but you think it's 10?

PAUL GINSBERG, FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERT: I hear 10. I hear six shots, then a three-second pause, then another shot, and a few more, totaling 10, all about the same level and the same kind of signature.

CABRERA: Now, let's compare this to what some of the eyewitnesses said. Several who have spoken to CNN speak of how the officer paused. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIFFANY MITCHELL, WITNESS: The kid, he finally gets away and he starts running. As he runs, the police get out of his vehicle and he follows behind him shooting and the kid body jerked as if he was hit from behind. And he turned around and puts his hands up like this. And the cop continued to fire until he just dropped down to the ground.

PIAGET CRENSHAW, WITNESS: So, I'm witnessing Dorian kind of ducking out from the police as he's running shooting. And so as the police approached Michael, maybe not more than three feet away, he then shot again.

Michael then turned around like almost in awe, like how he had just gotten shot that many times. So, he looked down and then he just tried to put his arms up. Once he put his arms up, the police shot his face and -- and just he went down.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: There was a gap you saw because...

(CROSSTALK)

MICHAEL BRADY, WITNESS: Yes. And on top of that, and there was also a gap from the officer pausing as he was shooting, because like I said, I'm in the window and he shoots a couple of times and, by the time I get outside, he's shooting again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Paul, just how long is that pause in the audio recording we heard?

GINSBERG: OK. The pause between shot six and shot seven is just a little over three seconds.

CABRERA: Based on what we heard from those witness accounts, does it seem to match up, in your view?

GINSBERG: Well, it seems consistent with a pause, either turning around or taking stock of the situation to see whether the threat remained or didn't or for whatever reason or reloading. We don't have any video, unfortunately. That really would tell the story.

CABRERA: That's right. We still haven't heard from officer Wilson himself.

We also heard some accounts, as we have been working on this story and investigating exactly what happened in the shooting for the last couple of weeks. We know there was maybe one shot that was fired while Brown and officer Darren Wilson were actually at the patrol car and then a series of gunshots later, according to witnesses.

But this audio appears to not include that gunshot that was potentially shot fired at the car. So does this element discredit the audio that we're hearing now in any way?

GINSBERG: Well, the audio speaks for itself, assuming that it is credible and it's authentic. And if it is, then there were six shots fired in rapid succession, not a single first one.

And the witnesses would either have to reevaluate their stories or their memories.

CABRERA: Is it very difficult to authenticate this video to say it actually -- or that audio to say it's of the shooting itself?

GINSBERG: Well, it depends on what the source was. Now, I understand that this was a chat by Skype. It's not my understanding that when you chat on Skype, it automatically records, so I don't know whether this recording was provided by Skype's service or whether it was recorded for some reason in the process of having this chat and how it was downloaded.

Once it's in a format that is in a standard, public, open format, it can be altered. So you have got to be very careful about the credibility.

CABRERA: Absolutely. Paul Ginsberg, we do appreciate you bringing that up. Thank you.

GINSBERG: Sure.

CABRERA: It's official. Burger King has announced a multibillion- dollar merger with Canadian donut and coffee maker Tim Hortons. So why are now some Americans threatening to now boycott the fast-food chain?

Plus, what does the U.S. really know about the terror group ISIS? My next guest met with almost two dozen top intelligence officials and he says he was shocked at just how little they knew. How does that impact the U.S. strategy against ISIS? I will ask him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: It's a whopper of a deal. Miami-based Burger King is buying Canadian donut chain Tim Hortons. If it's finalized, America's second largest fast-food restaurant is

now moving to Canada. But this deal is stirring up some controversy because it may mean a tax break for the burger giant or, as some might say, a tax dodge.

CNN Money's Cristina Alesci is joining me now to explain all of this.

This deal has really fired up a host of politicians and fast-food people.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and the president, too, who has suggested that this kind of a move is unfair to the American people and that if corporations don't do their part in paying their tax bills, that the average working American will have to make up somehow the difference.

But he realizes that Congress is not going to act on this, so the president and through the Treasury is trying to impact or make some proposals to limit the incentives for these companies to go abroad and avoid paying U.S. taxes.

CABRERA: I guess one thing that would prevent them from going abroad is just customer backlash. Is Burger King not worried about that?

ALESCI: Well, it's unclear how much they are really worried about it at this point, but one thing is for sure.

Customers or potential customers did take to Facebook today, posting all sorts of things about Burger King saying, they are not going to get a dime from me, just say no to Burger King, all of these very inflammatory statements.

Burger King, for its part, posted on its Facebook page that it's not doing this primarily for tax reasons. And, in fact, executives of the company tried to defend their decision in a conference call with reporters today, saying, we are not doing this because of tax reasons, but -- and that their tax rate is going to stay the same, effectively.

But, in honesty, the tax rate for corporations works a lot like the tax rate on personal income. Right? Just because you have a personal tax rate of a certain percentage doesn't mean you're actually paying that percentage, because there are credits and deductions and things like that can help you offset it.

(CROSSTALK)

ALESCI: Corporations have a similar, you know, system of credits and deductions. And going offshore will increase the likelihood and that you can exercise some of those credits and deductions. And that's why so people are so upset.

CABRERA: All right, Cristina Alesci, thanks for breaking it down for us.

Up next: How much does the United States know about the terror group ISIS? My next guest is the former chairman of the 9/11 Commission, and he

talked to some of the top intelligent officials in this country very recently. And he says he was shocked to realize how little they knew about ISIS. We will talk with him live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)