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NANCY GRACE
Michael Brown Family Asks for Peace
Aired August 25, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. After nights of extreme violence, the city of Ferguson, Missouri, ripped apart after an unarmed
teen shot dead by a cop in the street, the teen en route to his grandmother`s, bombshell tonight. As violence again threatens to boil over
on the very day unarmed teen Michael Brown buried, his family begs for peace. This as sources tell us what is set to go down in that secret grand
jury proceeding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BROWN, SR., FATHER: All I want is peace while my son is being laid to rest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brown`s family, too, wants justice. But today, they paused that pursuit to bury their son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And to Florida. An overbearing pageant mom determined to win at all costs. Tonight, claims that very same pageant mom feeds her young
daughter parasite tapeworms to make the little girl lose weight for a beauty competition. And it only comes to light when the girl`s discovered
vomiting violently over a toilet bowl, retching up parasitic tapeworms! Disgusting!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Florida mom reportedly fed her daughter tapeworms so her daughter could allegedly lose weight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Toilet full, full of tapeworms. She had pooped all these tapeworms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are tapeworms a new diet fad?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. After extreme violence, the city of Ferguson, Missouri, ripped apart. But at this hour, as the young unarmed teen is
laid to rest, his family is begging for peace, a stop to the violence in Ferguson, Missouri. This as the grand jury is set to continue secret
deliberations in the case of the unarmed teen`s shooting by a local cop. Tonight, we learn what`s going on behind closed doors, this as the funeral
proceeds.
Straight out to Catherine Callaway, CNN correspondent there on the scene, Catherine, how can they focus on their own son`s funeral when
violence is threatened all around?
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we have seen quite a change here over the last few days. We have gone from the shooting to
riots and riot gear and tear gas -- quite a scene there -- to this weekend where things seemed to calm down quite a bit. And today, during the
funeral, during the ceremony, there was peace, and there was a celebration of life, of Michael Brown`s life, a homegoing celebration, in fact.
GRACE: Well, you know, that -- that`s certainly euphemistic, Catherine, to call it a homecoming (sic) celebration. I get it, trying to
focus on his short life -- hold on, Catherine Callaway joining me there in the field.
Also with me right now, Daryl Parks, the family attorney, Michael Brown`s attorney. Daryl, I`m just flummoxed a tiny bit. I know that
Catherine Callaway is right, they`re calling this a homecoming (sic) celebration. OK. You know what? Their boy is dead. He`s buried.
They`re never going to see him again. I wouldn`t say this to the mom or the father, but that`s no celebration, Daryl!
DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY (via telephone): I know. But you know what? It`s a time that we have to celebrate his life, though, and the
life that he lived and who he was and what he was about, a chance for them to remember him. Remember, Nancy, up until yesterday, they had not seen
their son, other than in the street laying, you know, there on Canfield. So yesterday was the first time they saw him in the casket.
Today was the chance for them to celebrate with the community, with their close family, and to pay respect to his life in their own way. And
that`s what they did. They took their time and they paid respect to his life in the manner that they wanted to as his family, as his friends, and
to show him what he meant to them.
And so it was a very personal day, very heartfelt, very tough day for them, and to, you know, at least bring some closure to this part of what
has happened and to show respect to him...
GRACE: Daryl! Daryl! You know what? You know how -- you know, Daryl, I respect you immensely. I really do. But -- but don`t jump up and
say closure to a crime -- a violent crime victim, OK? Don`t, because there`s no such thing as closure.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... how that mother -- I do not know how that mother is walking. I don`t know how she is even standing up right now. And it`s all
well and good for everybody to talk about celebrating life. And I`m happy that everybody`s celebrating life. But you know what? If my son was
gunned down in the street, there would not be any celebration going on! And this mother -- and I`m sure the father, too, but I`m speaking as a
mother, has just been through hell! And how that woman is putting one foot in front of the other, I don`t know!
And again, I`m not saying the cop is wrong. I`m not saying the cop is right. I`m saying this mother has just had to walk the longest 50 feet in
her life, and that is from the front of the church -- the back of the church to the front where her child`s coffin is set up! Now, that`s
something to think about.
Daryl Parks, when you say a celebration of life, you also said this is the first time they have seen him since they saw the shots of him lying in
the street? What did you say, Daryl?
PARKS: Yes. So yesterday, they had a wake ceremony, which is traditional. And that was their first time seeing their son, other than
when they last saw him on Canfield. And so that was -- you know, that was -- too, was very, very hard for them, very personal for them.
And now today, with a chance for the family to express publicly, as well, what he meant to them, what he meant in their lives, and to talk
about their experiences with him, and even things that they had told him about his hopes and his dreams that he had for his life.
And probably one of the deepest things, Nancy, is he had talked about seeing some type of deaths to one of his family members. And they spoke
about that at the funeral today. Little did he know that he would be prophesying his own death. So that was one of the...
GRACE: Are you telling me...
PARKS: ... one of the prophetic parts.
GRACE: ... that he had some sort of a -- he had a premonition of death coming?
PARKS: Yes. Yes. Yes, he did.
GRACE: Daryl, question. What did they describe, his premonition of death?
PARKS: He had seen -- he was the family member who was talking talked about that he had seen something where someone, something had gotten
killed. And they had a white sheet involved in the situation. And I don`t recall it verbatim, but I recall them talking about the white sheet. And
they went on to say that little did he know that he would have the premonition about his possible death. And so that was the irony of what
that family member was saying at that time.
GRACE: You know what, Daryl? I know exactly what you`re talking about. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The week that Mike-Mike was killed, I was admitted in the hospital. He said, I don`t think that Carol`s (ph) going
to make it. And I said, Well, why did you say that, Mike-Mike? He said, Because I`ve been dreaming of death. I`ve been seeing pictures of death.
He said, I see bloody sheets hanging on the clothesline. And it just -- it truly touched my heart. And when I went out there and I saw Mike-Mike,
just exactly what he was laying up under (ph). So he pretty much prophesied his own death and didn`t even realize it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, Daryl Parks is with me, along with an entire panel on this topic. But Daryl, the attorney for Michael Brown`s family, you
know, you`ve got to look at this right now on this day when that teen is buried -- you have to look at it from the mother and the father`s point of
view. And I`m not talking about violence. I`m not talking about the cop, what the cop did. I`m not talking about the grand jury at this minute.
I`m going to get into that in a moment.
But right now, what this family is going through, burying their teen, and to hear he was having dreams of death and bloody sheets. Daryl, they
did not go and identify his body at the morgue?
PARKS: No, no. They did not do that. He was obviously identified when he was in the street as to who he was. So they had the information.
It wasn`t necessary for them to go to the morgue to do so.
GRACE: Daryl Parks with me, everyone. We are taking your calls. Daryl has just left the funeral that went down earlier today.
Daryl, tell me what is happening amongst the family. Are they divided, or are they united in what they believe went down?
PARKS: They`re very united. And we`ve seen it almost at every turn. In fact, as we speak right now, we are having the repast here in St. Louis
at the Omega Center here, and the family has come in to take (ph) and to dine together, mother and father, both sides of the family here. And the
community is here with them to have a repast as we conclude this part of his burial ceremony today.
GRACE: Everyone, we`re going to take you back to the proceedings there, post-funeral of Michael Brown, now buried.
Right now, turning from Daryl Parks to Colin Jeffery, news director of KTRS. Colin, we are also learning about what is being presented at that
secret grand jury proceeding. And now rumors are swirling that the police officer is set to testify in his own defense to try to stop a perceived
indictment. What do you know, Colin?
COLIN JEFFERY, KTRS (via telephone): Well, that`s what we`re hearing. We haven`t, again, been able to confirm anything because of the secret
nature. But as we spoke last time, it`s one of those thing where the police officer is in a unique position because he has the ability to
testify as an eyewitness to the shooting. So that`s something, you know, we`ve heard experts say they would encourage Officer Wilson, if he were
their client, to testify, to maybe put this to rest before an indictment is ever handed down. This could be something that heads that off.
So we are hearing that. But again, it`s still a secret proceeding, and the judge in this case seems to be taking that secrecy very seriously
so far.
GRACE: Everyone, in addition to Daryl Parks and Colin Jeffery, Catherine Callaway with us, joining me right now is Susan Roach. She is a
former assistant prosecutor there at St. Louis County, and she worked with Bob McCullough in the prosecutor`s office. Susan, thank you for being with
us.
SUSAN ROACH, FMR. ST. LOUIS COUNTY ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR: Hi, Nancy.
ROACH: Susan, you, like me, have presented many, many cases to the grand jury. Tell me, in your jurisdiction, how does that work?
ROACH: Well, typical cases -- the grand jury was designed to expeditiously present evidence. Oftentimes, 30 or 40 cases are presented
in a given afternoon because the proceedings are so informal. Defense counsel isn`t allowed in there. It is simply grand jurors who sit for a
term and a prosecutor or prosecutors, and oftentimes, a police officer will be called to read the police report, which contains hearsay evidence.
Now, they can deviate from that in cases where they want to go into more depth and actually call the witnesses, or the grand jurors can request
that that be accomplished. But a typical case -- and I`m not suggesting in any way that this case is going to be handled in that manner -- but that
would be the scenario.
GRACE: With me is Susan Roach, who has tried cases in this jurisdiction. She`s also presented to the grand jury. Susan, question.
Do you believe that the officer will come in and testify to the grand jury in the hopes that by giving his theory, he can stop an indictment?
ROACH: I can tell you that, typically, it wouldn`t be the case that you would -- as a defense counsel, that you would recommend to your client
that he or she testify to the grand jury because defense counsel can`t be in there. They can be cross-examined. If questions are asked without
defense counsel in the room and without the ability to make an objection, or a judge to rule upon them, then the accused can later be indicted for
obstruction of justice or perjury.
But this case involves a police officer. And for whatever reason, there seems to be a deviation from the norm in those cases. I`ve
represented several police officers myself accused of using excessive force, in one instance of having raped a woman during a traffic stop. And
they all testified to the grand jury. Two out of three were not indicted.
So in this instance, I would concur with what the experts are saying. It is probably likely that he will testify, that the officer will testify.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a pivotal day here in Ferguson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up! Hands up!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He ran for his life. They shot him and he fell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got hit with a canister and then it dropped at my feet and exploded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... began throwing bottles. They threw urine on officers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are unlawfully assembled! You need to get out of the roadway!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to get back (INAUDIBLE) people`s lives!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The family of the unarmed teen at the time of his funeral, when he is buried, is begging for peace. I don`t know how this family can
focus on the funeral with the threat of violence looming over their heads.
We are taking your calls. I want to go back to Susan Roach, who prosecuted in this office. Tonight, we obtain information about what is
set to go down inside the secret grand jury proceedings. Also at this hour, not only to Susan but to Woodrow Tripp, former police battalion
commander, joining me.
Woody, there`s been a lot of complaints now that the body of Michael Brown lay in the street for a full four hours before it was removed. I can
tell you right now, Woody, it takes -- I`m surprised they got the body out of the street in four hours because you`ve got to process the scene.
You`ve got to get crime scene techs out there, Woody.
Not only them but the medical examiner sends their own fleet of investigators. They`re out there making measurements. They`re getting
statements. How do you think we got all those statements? Because people were trying to get -- cops were trying to get statements at the scene. You
have to make measurements from, let`s just say, that sidewalk to the body, from that sidewalk to the head, to the feet, to the yellow line.
Everything must be meticulously measured with landmarks that are not going to change by the time of trial. Photos have to be taken. Fingerprints
have to be taken. Gunshot residue, tests have to be taken from the victim, from anybody else standing around, from the police officer.
I mean, I`m surprised they got it done in four hours, Woody.
WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER: Absolutely, Nancy. You`re talking about a crime scene here, where you have someone in the street.
There`s a lot that goes on. Most times, we have the luxury of being inside of a building, so those type of things aren`t seen. But in actuality, I`ve
spent hours, eight, ten hours at a crime scene with the body still being there. And it all has to do with the collection of evidence.
And you can do it one of two ways. You can either protect the scene, collect the evidence, or the Catch-22 is we can immediately rush them off,
and then we`ll be hearing complaints about, Why didn`t the police do the crime scene the way it was supposed to have been done?
GRACE: OH, yes, that will come back and bite you in the neck at trial. And not only that, when the medical examiners take the body, the
body -- the hands have to be bagged in brown paper bags with rubber bands here to collect possible evidence on the hands. The clothes have to be
carefully put away. You have to handle the body a certain way or you lose evidence. If you don`t put it into the morgue, the ME vehicle correctly,
you can contaminate with fibers or hair that`s on the floor of the vehicle. I mean, all this is thought through very carefully. So four hours is not
out of the norm.
As a matter of fact, Woody, do you remember the courthouse shooting in Fulton County? You were around for that. That -- there were multiple
bodies when the courthouse shooter came back into the courthouse and gunned down a judge, a court reporter and others. Bodies lay there, I think, past
24 hours, when they were trying their best to get measurements and process the crime scene.
TRIPP: Absolutely. I do remember that. And that`s exactly what happened. And there were multiple crime scenes. It`s just amazing to me
that everyone is a police crime scene expert except the actual police crime scene experts.
GRACE: But if you mess it up, you`re going to have about it at trial.
Unleash the lawyers, Heather Hansen, New York, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Also with me, Shawn Parcells, who helped perform
the autopsy. Also with me, Dr. William Morrone out of Madison Heights.
First of all, to you, Darryl Cohen. You`re the defense attorney. You know, you put a cop in front of a grand jury, if you get a particular grand
jury, they will refuse to indict when the cop gives his or her side of what happens. What do you think`s going to happen? Will the cop testify or no?
Because we`re hearing he will.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, if he were my client, I would have to very carefully look at the video from all of the different angles
and make that decision. If it`s close...
GRACE: Daryl, can you just give an answer...
COHEN: Sure, I`ll try.
GRACE: ... OK? Don`t muddy the water. Either yes or no!
COHEN: Well, if I can`t muddy the water...
GRACE: Would you put him up or not?
COHEN: The answer is, if I thought it would be helpful to him, yes, I would let him testify. But he would be very carefully prepared beforehand
because if he says the wrong thing...
GRACE: Well, that goes...
COHEN: ... he`s going to find himself indicted.
GRACE: ... without saying.
COHEN: Well, actually, it doesn`t.
GRACE: Yes, you`re right. Heather Hansen, what about it, put the cop up or no?
HEATHER HANSEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I wouldn`t put the cop up, Nancy. I think, in this case, it`s especially dangerous. In a normal case, when
you`re looking at a case against a police officer, tensions are not as high. The media is not on top of the case. The public is not on top of
the case. Here, the risk that you run by putting that officer on the stand is far greater. And if ultimately, he gets to trial, then he`ll have his
opportunity to testify. But right now, I wouldn`t do it.
GRACE: Well, OK, I see you shaking your head no. Hold on, Darryl.
Sean Parcells, that`s where you`re going to come in because Shawn Parcells actually helped perform the autopsy on Michael Brown. And Dr.
William Morrone, also with me, has performed thousands of autopsies.
Because here`s the deal, gentlemen. Most grand juries are going to be prone to believe a police officer, unless the forensic evidence -- and I`m
talking about the autopsy that you performed, Shawn, with Baden -- unless that contradicts what this cop says, he`s going to get in front of that
grand jury and they`re going to say, Hey, well, what about this in this autopsy report? How did that happen? Then he`s going to be hard pressed
to come up with an answer, Parcells.
SHAWN PARCELLS, FORENSIC CONSULTANT: Correct. Correct. The main thing to remember that Dr. Baden and I are missing in this particular case
is just what you guys have been talking about, the crime scene. We have our information from our second autopsy. But we don`t know what the
clothing looks like. We don`t know what the crime scene looks like. We don`t know what the officer`s statement is going to be.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: As grand jury proceedings are under way in the shooting of an unarmed teen in Ferguson, Missouri, by a local police officer, a funeral
also takes place today, the teen buried. With me is Sybil Wilkes, co-host of the Tom Joyner morning show, who was at the funeral today, just a few
hours ago.
Sybil, thank you for being with us. What happened?
SYBIL WILKES, CO-HOST, TOM JOYNER MORNING SHOW: Nancy, I was struck by the somberness of this, not only for the mother, the father and their
families. But there are so many people who feel invested in the life of Michael Brown now, and we were all there to show our support. But my heart
just broke looking at Lesley McSpadden. And she just -- in the grand scheme of things, we`re not supposed to bury our children. I don`t have
children, but I was struck by just the whole profound loss of this woman -- not to make it too simple. But her child is now part of a movement. But
this was her child that she is burying today. And it just is really so sad to me, because I was thinking about you last week when you said you were
taking your children to school. And this morning on our way to the funeral, I opened up an e-mail that was from Tom Joyner`s son, Thomas Jr.,
who was taking his son, Tom III, to his first day of school. Then we opened the program, and there are these pictures of this little boy, who
was so full of joy and smiles and laughter. And that`s never going to be a part of her life anymore, except to go back to those pictures. So it was
very, very sad to me to see this woman who is just so lost --
GRACE: You know what, Sybil, I can`t help but do it. And I almost hate to verbalize it. But every time -- and I am not saying the cop is
right or wrong, because I don`t have enough evidence. I`ve got to hear some more. But I can tell you this. Every time I think about Michael
Brown and they show that funeral and I think of the mother walking from the back of the church all the way up to get to the coffin, I can`t help but
think about my son, and what if he -- this had happened to him. And I tell you what, it`s going to be very hard if this case is indicted to get an
impartial jury as this grand jury is meeting. It has started meeting, according to our sources. They have already started the prep for the grand
jury. Sybil, I don`t know how you can put a mother on a grand jury and have her not think the very same thing.
WILKES: And that`s really interesting, the makeup of the jury, too. I think we`re looking at more men than women in this. And I`m wondering
how that is going to shake out as well. But any parent, any person who`s had a loss like this will understand, and how it all falls out, I don`t
know. I don`t think any of us really know.
GRACE: But here`s the other thing, we`re all talking about this right now, where somewhere there`s a cop sitting there going, saying, well,
that`s not what happened, you haven`t heard my side yet or at least we think he is, because the Ferguson police have not really issued a statement
as to their theory. But what about it, Woody Tripp?
TRIPP: Something that people seem to forget is the fact that just because you`re a police officer, you don`t lose your civil rights. You
still have all of them guaranteed to you, including the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth, the Sixth being with counsel. So, again, people want to rush and
basically don`t confuse this with the facts, take him out and hang him. But when it`s on the other foot, then we need to have a full trial, we need
to investigate. Well, guess what? They don`t lose their rights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. As the body of unarmed teen Michael Brown is buried, preparations go on to present in front of a grand jury a possible
indictment against the police officer that shot him dead. We are taking your calls. Catherine Callaway, CNN correspondent, there. Catherine, what
have we learned about the officer, Officer Wilson?
CALLAWAY: Well, he`s basically been underground the last few weeks. There was a lot of discussion on how injured he actually was after this
incident. Still some question on the severity of that. We saw the video of a possible eye injury. There was question on whether or not there was a
fracture there. We haven`t been able to confirm that. And indeed, he has been underground now for some time. And they waited a while before they
released his name. So I imagine this was planned long before he did go underground, that this might be the best thing, to sort of ease tensions
here. You also are aware of the money that`s been raised for him, some in total $400,000 to be used for perhaps legal funds, legal fees or maybe
support his livelihood if he`s unable to continue as a police officer.
GRACE: Catherine, how is the money being raised?
CALLAWAY: The money -- there`s been t-shirt sales. There`s been online donations. I think it`s been quite a groundswell of support for
him, especially when there was the height of this last week, I think. It started getting bigger every day. But today`s been such a peaceful day.
There really hasn`t been too much even talk on the street -- when I was mulling around today speaking with people, there seemed to be more of,
what`s going to happen now, what`s next? The investigation continues. What lies ahead --
GRACE: Is it true that the officer`s mother died when he was just 16?
CALLAWAY: There were reports that she had encountered some problems. I`m not fully informed on all of the --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Let me find out from Sybil. Is that true? Did the officer`s mother pass away when he was just 16? Who raised him?
WILKES: As far as who raised him, I think his stepfather stepped in and took over for a short period of time before he reached the age of
maturity and then was able to go on his own.
GRACE: Okay. I want to go back to Shawn Parcells and Dr. William Morrone. Also with me, Sybil Wilkes, Sharon Roach and Woody Tripp, Heather
Hansen, Darryl Cohen. To Dr. Morrone, you have combed over what you have learned regarding the autopsy. I`d like you to present that to Parcells
and get his respnse.
MORRONE: I want to thank him, because Dr. Parcells and Dr. Baden had a very unique and valuable opportunity to find the facts and present them
much earlier than the traditional autopsy.
The most important thing up front was to decide what was a front shot and were there any possibilities of shots from behind and all the entry
wounds. But they were not allowed to study for toxicology or gunshot residue and examine the clothes. And when the final version comes in, that
will be how we interpret the distance. And Dr. Parcells brought a very important point last week. He talked about the position of the deceased
and the position of the officer. And that`s what was extracted from the crime scene evaluation that took so long, according to some people.
GRACE: Let me ask you this, how much does it hinder Baden and Parcells, who is with us tonight, that they are doing a second autopsy,
because an autopsy is extremely intrusive? In fact, this young man was probably buried without most of his organs, is that correct?
MORRONE: That`s correct. But if the people who know they`re doing the first autopsy know there`s going to be a second autopsy, the time
between allows them not to be so destructive. And it`s a more coordinated effort. I would worry that there`s also this third autopsy from the
Department of Justice. And at each time, we might not be able to say that all the autopsies --
GRACE: Morrone, let me get you and Parcells together. On an autopsy, you`re gutted open, your organs are removed. What is left for a second
autopsy?
MORRONE: Well, the outside of the body is, again, photographed and examined. And the organs aren`t taken away. They`re put in plastic bags
and put back inside. So the second group is allowed the opportunity to fully examine the bones. There was no x-rays here. But the position of
the wounds and the internal organs. They`re saved.
GRACE: Parcells, do you believe the -- the reason I`m asking is because grand jury proceedings are starting to indict this police officer
or no-bill him. The shot of Michael Brown on the very top of his head going straight down, it`s extremely inflammatory, which I have seen. Tell
me the significance of that shot and what you believe it proves.
PARCELLS: Well, at this time I can`t really say what I believe it proves because we don`t have the officer`s statements and we don`t have all
the information from the whole crime scene put together. The important thing to remember is that Baden and I need to see the reconstruction of the
shooting scene, because at that angle, it could show if his head was tilted in such a degree that he could have been rushing the officer. But at the
same time, it could also show that he was already starting to fall towards the ground when those shots came in. And we don`t have the information put
together from the shooting scene and the reconstruction of that, and the ballistics information, to prove that yet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Florida. An overbearing pageant mom determined to win at all costs. Tonight, claims that mom feeds her young daughter
parasite tapeworms to make the girl lose weight for a beauty competition. And it only comes to light when the girl is discovered vomiting violently
over the toilet bowl, retching up parasitic tapeworms, some that have grown so large inside her body they`re trying to jump out of the commode.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom allegedly fed her child tapeworms in an attempt to lose weight so she could be skinnier for a beauty pageant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a tummy ache. That`s what it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But suddenly the tapeworms surface, in the bathroom, worms even trying to crawl out of the toilet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were a couple that were very long and wiggling around trying to get out of the toilet bowl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were talking about this amazing diet pill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You gave her a tapeworm?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An amazing diet pill? Everybody, that`s video from "Untold Stories" from the ER on Discovery Fit and Health. That diet pill contained
unhatched eggs of tapeworms, I believe, Brett Larson.
LARSON: Yes. Nancy, she got these magical diet pills from Mexico, and fed these eggs to her daughter, which then of course hatched and -- put
down the dinner, kids, because it`s getting grosser from here. They hatch inside of her so she can, as you said, go to this pageant, lose this
weight, and then she ends up in the emergency room. They initially think maybe she`s pregnant because she`s nauseous. They do the sonogram to find
out that she doesn`t have a baby growing inside of her, she has parasitic tapeworms growing inside of her. And as you mentioned, that quite
disgusting detail--
GRACE: To Clark Goldband. The mother has got to be prosecuted.
GOLDBAND: Nancy, here`s what we know. As Brett was saying, authorities first thought this was a pregnancy. A sonogram turned up no
evidence of a child, and this teen was still in extreme pain. So as doctors and nurses are trying to determine what to do next, according to
the show, Nancy, all of a sudden this daughter gets up and runs into the rest room where she excretes tapeworms into the toilet, and that`s when
things take a turn for the worse, Nancy. These worms apparently start swimming out of the toilet. Medical personnel horrified, and that`s when
they begin asking the mother what do you know about this situation.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Heather Hansen, Darryl Cohen. All right, Darryl, you two are the defense lawyers. What`s your defense for
mommy who feeds her daughter tapeworm pills?
COHEN: I think, Nancy, the real defense is pageant mom. I have never seen something like this in my entire life.
GRACE: As a defense lawyer, you`re not helping.
COHEN: I know I`m a defense lawyer.
GRACE: You`re fired.
COHEN: She`s crazy, mom is crazy.
GRACE: Heather, your turn.
HANSEN: Nancy, there`s too much we don`t know. We don`t know the age of the child. We don`t know whether the mother knew that the pills
actually had tapeworms in them. We also don`t know whether or not the child wants to take the pills.
GRACE: She said I`m giving you the pills to lose weight.
HANSEN: Correct, Nancy, but we don`t know whether or not the daughter wanted to take the pills to lose weight, and whether or not the mother
thought they were simply diet pills as opposed to pills that had these tape worms in them. Clearly, this is so vile and disgusting that if any type of
taking diet pills is going to be a crime, this will be.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A pageant mom feeds her little girl tapeworms to help her lose weight. To Susan Yager, diet historian, author of "The Hundred Year Diet."
Susan, I`ve never heard of this, but apparently it`s nothing new.
SUSAN YAGER, DIET HISTORIAN: Well, Nancy, it isn`t. At the turn of the last century tapeworm pills were sold in sanitized form. That is to
say, who can know what`s in an unregulated pill. But the pills were claiming to be tapeworm eggs, and people indeed did take them trying to
lose weight.
GRACE: You know, Susan, these things can get to be 20 feet, 30 feet long in your body. You`re seeing them right now. I can barely stand to
look at it. Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist, how can a mother knowingly do this to her daughter?
DURVASULA: I mean, Nancy, it is -- there`s a variety of reasons. In this pageant world, you can really see some mothers really go dark and
channel their hopes and their dreams to their child. But I think we`re seeing something a little bit more sinister and a bit more
psychopathological here. For someone to put their child in such harm`s way almost feels like what we call a factitious (ph) disorder, almost could be
in the realm of Munchausen by proxy, and she`s doing harm to her daughter to get attention on herself. Whatever it is, it`s dangerous, and I don`t
know that she`s going to be a decent caregiver for this daughter now or ever.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, the tapeworms were so big they were like snakes trying to jump out of the commode.
MORRONE: Tapeworm infestation is common in southern parts of the United States and for people who travel outside of the United States. The
tapeworms bundle up and plug up the GI system, and then you have to be wormed, kind of like your cat or your dog, and there are special drugs that
kill the worms and get them out of you.
GRACE: OK, well, that`s certainly something to look forward to. Let`s stop and remember American hero, Army Specialist Joseph Lancour, 21,
Schwartz (ph) Creek, Michigan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Good Conduct Medal. Loved skateboarding, camping, fishing. Parents Rob and
Starla, sisters Asia and Debra. Joseph Lancour, American hero.
Tonight, we need your help in the search for a West Warwick schoolgirl Khia Lake, last seen wearing a black v-neck top and shorts, "dancer"
written on the back. Khia was known to spend time at local parks and trails. Please call this number if you have info. 401-821-42-23. And
congratulation to our floor director Phil and his beautiful bride Ally, who got married this weekend. Blessings and congratulations. Everyone, thank
you for being with us. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
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