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CNN NEWSROOM

Suicide in the Spotlight; Eye Witness to Ferguson, Missouri Shooting; Name of Ferguson Police Officer Not Given; Barack Obama/Hillary Clinton to "Hug Out" Differences.

Aired August 13, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We have to get back to Robin Williams. His suicide has renewed the spotlight on mental illness, depression, suicidal tendencies, the struggles of those who deal with that every day.

Celebrity publicist and author, Terrie M. Williams, has experienced this firsthand. She is a depression survivor, now an advocate who has dedicated her work to de-stigmatizing the disease and raising awareness. So she has written two books toward that effort, "Stay Strong: Simple Life Lessons for Teens" and "Black Pain: It Just Looks Like We're Not Hurting," which recounts her personal battle. Terrie is also a licensed psychotherapist. And she joins me, alongside here in New York; and also joining us, Psychologist Wendy Walsh.

Ladies, thanks for being here.

And, Terrie, let me just begin with you.

We were just talking on commercial break and I was asking you when you first realized something wasn't quite right up here and it was 10 years ago?

TERRIE M. WILLIAMS, CO-FOUNDER, STAY STRONG FOUNDATION & AUTHOR: Yeah, it was about 10 to 12 years ago that I realized it. It was such that I never wanted to see daylight. Because that would begin having to pretend that all was well. That's why I hated to see daylight come. And, you know, I had -- I had great difficulty getting up out of the bed. It would take me a long time to get up out of the bed. And at some point, I realized there was something wrong with that. That I would sit there -- lie there in a fetal position, and the tears would flow. And I just didn't want to get out of the bed.

BALDWIN: What about -- did you have people around you? I have to imagine you had people around you. And how did you handle them and push them away?

WILLIAMS: I was silent, or I just lied. You just pretend. You wear that mask. You wear that mask and you pretend that all is well when, in fact, you're dying on the inside. It was just -- at some point, I was like, this is not healthy. Something is wrong. And some friends, you know, got me to a psychiatrist, and, even though I'm someone who knows what the signs are. But it took me a minute before I was able to ascertain that.

BALDWIN: It's incredible, because you have worked with some very, very huge people, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes. All of whom needed therapists.

BALDWIN: All of whom needed therapists. We all could use some therapy here and there.

WILLIAMS: I think it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Wendy, to you, I was asking Terrie what helped her and she was candid and said a great therapist. But I think there are people, in the wake of Robin Williams and how tragic it is, a lot of people are saying, I can relate, I have these dark thoughts, as well. And I think within this group of depression, there is this sub-sector of people who really do take suicide very seriously. There is a difference.

WENDY WALSH, HUMAN BEHAVIOR THERAPIST & PSYCHOLOGIST: There is a difference. And also, it's important to -- I know that your symptoms, Doctor, were, you know, the traditional symptoms, if you will, not wanting to see the light of day, curled up in the fetal position, crying. But comedy itself can be a symptom of depression, especially if there is a bipolar component. And people who are extroverts actually sometimes are very rageful when they're depressed. They're acting out. So the symptomology can be really varied and very difficult to spot.

My own experience has only been with postpartum depression. I say only, but it wasn't fun. But I didn't have the ability to reach out. Somebody else had to yank me and say you need something. You need some help. This isn't normal.

BALDWIN: But I'm worried, Wendy, because a lot of people are saying at least Robin is in a better place. We can put the tweet up from the Academy of Motion Picture and arts and sciences. He voiced, of course, Aladdin's genie, and they tweeted, "Genie, you're free," and some people are saying that will encourage other young people if they're struggling, you can just end it. What do you think, Wendy?

WALSH: Well, I mean, I'm sure that suicide was his very, very last resort to end his pain. But there are other ways. There are ways to get the help, either through good, subtle psycho-pharm, good therapy. There are ways to get the help so you can remember the bright lights and the day again. You can remember the sunshine and glory that is life that we all want to experience.

BALDWIN: To Terrie, when we talk about you initially didn't want to see the daylight, and I'm sure this happened, I don't know, for years with you. Finally, you saw the daylight, accepted that help. But that has to be a very crucial step, the accepting of the help before your life change with a therapist.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. No, it is the acceptance of the help. And my background is in social work. So I knew what the signs were. But somehow or another, when it impacts on you directly, you don't really see it. You know? And what I know is that sometimes sharing your story with someone else helps, as well. Because we tend to think that we're the only ones who are suffering, or not talking about what's going on inside of ourselves. Do you know? And so that's for me a jump-off point. When I shared my story publicly for the first time -- the then-"Essence" editor-in-chief, asked if I would share my story. And over 10,000 people responded to that.

BALDWIN: Really?

WILLIAMS: Literally. And it's what -- what I know is that when you go through the fire and you come out on the other side, you somehow find out what it is that you're called to do. So hence the word behind my name is mental health expert, you know? But I know --

BALDWIN: Only too well.

WILLIAMS: -- only too well.

BALDWIN: The fire.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Going through the fire. Coming out on the other side. I am a woman on fire, because not on my watch am I going to let people think that they are alone. We are all going through the same thing in varying degrees.

BALDWIN: Terrie Williams, a pleasure. Thank you for coming in.

WILLIAMS: My pleasure, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you.

And Wendy Walsh, thank you, as well.

WALSH: Thank you.

BALDWIN: People can get help.

Coming up next, an eyewitness account of what happened in Ferguson, Missouri, when a police officer shot and killed a teenager.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DORIAN JOHNSON, SHOOTING WITNESS: At no point in time did they struggle over the weapon, because the weapon was already drawn on us. We were both unarmed, sir. We didn't have a sharp object on us. Nothing. I didn't have any pockets on my shorts that I had on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You need to hear the rest of that young man's story.

Also, hear a legal perspective. Does the Ferguson Police Department need to release the officer's name? Are they legally bound to do so? Should they do so? We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We know the name of the 18-year-old shot and killed by a police officer in suburban St. Louis, Michael Brown. It has been now four days since he was killed. Yet, the name of the man who pulled the trigger, still a mystery. Police say they have not released his identity based upon death threats.

Only a handful of people say they were there. They witnessed the shooting. And one of them, who was merely feet away when his friend was shot, spoke to CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: At that time, he reached out the window with his left arm, he grabbed on to my friend, Big Mike's throat and he's trying to pull him in the vehicle. And my friend, Big Mike, very angrily is trying to pull away from the officer. And the officer now is struggling with trying to hold a grip on my friend, Big Mike, as he's trying to pull away. And as -- in a minute, I heard "Shoot, I'm about to shoot." And I look in his window and I see he has his gun pointed at both of us. And when he fired his weapon, I moved seconds before he pulled the trigger. I saw the fire come out the barrel, and I instantly knew that it was a gun. I looked at my friend, Big Mike, and I saw that he was struck in the chest or upper region, because I saw blood splatter down his side, his right area. And at that time, we both took off running.

Now, it was almost two or three minutes -- we were running, and I was able to hide myself behind the first vehicle that was up on the scene. And the officer then got out of his car. My friend, Big Mike, was still running, he ran past me and saw me in plain sight. He said to me verbatim -- he said, "Keep running, Bro," and he kept running, and I was so scared and feared for my life that my body was in shock. I couldn't move. I couldn't think at that time. And almost in an instant, my body started rising and I see the officer proceeding after my friend, Big Mike, with his gun drawn.

And he fired a second shot and that struck my friend, Big Mike. And at that time, he turned around with his hands up, beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting. But at that time, the officer was firing several more shots into my friend. And he hit the ground, and died. I watched him until his body stopped moving. And then I ran. And vomited in my mouth, throwing up, hyperventilating, not knowing what to do. I just ran.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Did Michael ever try to get the weapon that the police officer had?

JOHNSON: No, sir. That's incorrect. At no point in time did they struggle over the weapon, because the weapon was already drawn on us. So we were more trying to get away out of the angle or aim of the weapon besides going towards the weapon, because it was drawn on us already. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's bring in CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

And so as some of these accounts are coming forward. Again, the big question, you know, Ferguson police had said, we would identify the officer in question, have yet to do so. My question to you is, are they legally bound to identify this police officer who pulled the trigger?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sooner rather than later, yes. There is a law in Missouri that says these reports have to be released within 72 hours. The police chief is saying, well, there's an exception where it's an emergency situation, there's the possibility of death threats. But given the magnitude of these events, given the importance of his identity and knowing his background, I think it's just inevitable his name is going to be out, probably within 24 hours.

BALDWIN: OK. So as we wait for that. Maybe in that time frame, you know, we generally know, Jeff, what happened, according to police. But the fact that they haven't even, you know, stood in front of a microphone or released some sort of press release with a tick-tock, specific chronology of their version of how events unfolded, how does that strike you?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, I think it is probably always a good idea to wait rather than come out with half-baked ultimately incorrect information. There are various witnesses who are coming forward, just like the young man we heard a few seconds ago. All of that information is going to have to be pulled together. The FBI is involved. The FBI knows how to do these kinds of investigations. It doesn't have a stake in the outcome. This is not -- the FBI is not part of the Ferguson police force. So, you know, I think it is better, probably, for all concerned, for everyone to wait until there can be a more comprehensive and fair analysis of what went on. Because I'm sure there are conflicting opinions. And views of what happened at this point.

BALDWIN: And wrong names being thrown out and, as you point out, half-baked information. We need the facts. Both sides need the facts, Jeffrey Toobin, right?

TOOBIN: Absolutely. That's what we need, sooner rather than later. I mean, people -- given the magnitude of this event, you know, you can't -- this can't go on for months. But it's -- you know, 24, 48, 72 hours is not a big problem, I don't think.

BALDWIN: OK. Jeff Toobin, thank you, from Washington for us today.

Coming up next, Hillary Clinton and President Obama are set to, quote, unquote, "hug it out tonight." And the former secretary of state offered up some sharp criticism of the president's foreign policy. Find out what is supposed to happen behind closed doors this evening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: You've seen the headlines. We talked about this. Hillary Clinton wants to hug it out with her former boss after publicly dissing his policy on Syria. The former secretary of state told the "Atlantic" magazine, Obama's decision to not arm some Syrian rebels early on was a, quote, unquote, "failure that helped fuel the rise of ISIS." Clinton and President Obama will be meeting tonight at this high-profile birthday party on Martha's Vineyard.

Our senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, he pushed the White House in this interview to let the press watch this hug.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Secretary Clinton, you know, she said she wants to hug it out, so why not let everybody see it?

ERIC SCHULTZ, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: I believe the president and Secretary Clinton have had many hugs over the past few years. I suspect many of them have been caught on camera. Again, I appreciate the request, but I do think this is a private social gathering for someone's birthday so it's going to be hard to bring all of you lovely people in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oh, those lovely people. Let's bring in some lovely people. We have political commentator and Democratic strategist, Donna Brazile.

(LAUGHTER)

You like that?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BALDWIN: And national political reporter, Peter Hamby.

Let me begin with you, Peter.

Let's imagine if we were part of the lovely people invited to this party this evening. A lot of Democratic all-stars on the vineyard. Who and what would we see?

PETER HAMBY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No sarcasm, by the way there, from Eric Schultz at the White House at all.

(LAUGHTER)

Look, tonight, obviously the president is vacationing in Martha's Vineyard. Vernon Jordan throwing a party tonight for his wife, Ann Jordan. Vernon Jordan, powerful attorney, long-time Clinton confidante. It happens that Hillary Clinton is going to be there, as well, signing copies of her book as part of this never-ending Hillary Clinton book tour. She is vacationing --

BALDWIN: No sarcasm there, as well.

HAMBY: -- in the Hamptons.

(LAUGHTER)

None. But look, you know, obviously the political world is watching, because they're trying to see how Hillary Clinton is going to calibrate as she decides to run for president, her relationship with President Obama. The comments to Jeffrey Goldberg in the "Atlantic" were certainly newsy. It is going to be fascinating to watch how she puts space between herself and the president or does not put space between herself and the president over the next few years if she decides to run.

But look, I think the media is probably imbuing this meeting, this hug with probably a little more drama than it actually needs to be.

BALDWIN: Oh, no, you're with Donna Brazile --

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: -- who tweeted, "What is this a slow news day. Ps, no, not at all. If we get into hug analysis, this might be the slowest news week ever."

We're not going to do a play-by-play on said hug, yet. But let me say, Donna Brazile, when you have the former secretary of state for the current president who is talking foreign policy while the U.S. is launching air strikes in Iraq, that is nothing to shrug off as simply political fodder.

BRAZILE: Look, remember, this might be a church hug, you know, which is a welcome-home, welcome-back kind of hug. We don't know what kind of hug. And as I said, we should bring a tape measure to make sure it's close and comfortable.

(LAUGHTER)

Let get back to the substance of the matter. The truth is I read "Hard Choices." It's a very long, detailed, wonky kind of foreign policy book. But in the book, she talked about her disagreement with the president on the Syria strategy. I think that's the meat of what people are trying to, you know, look into. But the truth is, Hillary Clinton has every right to disagree with this president, former presidents, future presidents.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But isn't that true that some of the rebels that Clinton wanted to arm ultimately joined ISIS, who would be who the U.S. is currently trying to destroy, Donna?

BRAZILE: Well, look, when she gave this interview, she gave this interview before the president decided to launch the air strikes against is. So there's no question that both -- not just secretary Clinton, but John McCain and others have wanted to arm rebels. And I think what the president was trying to do in his cautious approach to trying to figure out the right thing to do in Syria and disarm and not just Assad with the chemical weapons, but he wanted to make sure these weapons would not enter the hands of people who would later come back and turn them against United States or its allies. So, look, again, I think we can have a conversation about the substance without us making this birthday party so political.

BALDWIN: OK. We won't get out the measuring tape until tomorrow.

BRAZILE: Absolutely.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Donna Brazile, thank you, Peter Hamby. Thank you both very much.

HAMBY: Thanks, Brooke.

BRAZILE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, a former State Department official has a chilling prediction as we're talking about ISIS there in Iraq. He says that the U.S. air strikes there against these militants are putting more Americans at risk right here on U.S. soil. Hear his reasons to why, live, next.

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