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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Interview With Doctors Without Borders Nurse; U.S. General Killed in Afghan Attack; Briefing from Pentagon Spokesman; Ebola Patient Arrives in Atlanta

Aired August 5, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MONIA SAYAH, NURSE, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: You have to know when you're ready to go out. You can't just say, I'm done, I need to undress. It takes a few minutes to get undressed.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And how secure is it? I mean, it looks terrific, but if there is just a millimeter of skin that's exposed, you are at risk of certain death. I mean, honestly, how safe do you feel when you're dressed?

SAYAH: I honestly felt very safe. As long as your body is covered and you follow the safety procedures, there is no reason to be infected. I mean, accidents can happen. A needle stick obviously. You faint and you fall and your goggles come off your face. But otherwise, there's no reason to --

BANFIELD: What about when you're not in the suit, you're still in the same country where other people are contracting this.

SAYAH: Sure. When we're not in the suit, we always speak to people with a two meter distance --

BANFIELD: Is that enough?

SAYAH: Yes, it's enough. Ebola is not airborne. It's not that easily contracted. It really has to be through direct contact. You can see people who contract Ebola who were affected are caring for members of their family who are sick or health care workers.

BANFIELD: The picture we have on the screen right now is the ambulance. It's a very low procession going through downtown Atlanta. You can see the ambulance towards the bottom of your screen.

It's carrying Nancy Writebol, who has arrived in Georgia, with a brief stop for refueling in Maine. She's been transferred into that ambulance and she is on her way to Emory University Hospital for isolation and continued treatment there.

Her husband is not. He stayed behind in Africa, but he will follow her in the next couple of days, we're told. Her son, however, we are told, is present, if not at Emory university hospital, very close by.

We're also told he may be speaking to the press about his mother's arrival. Great news. The greatest news was that she had an appetite. She was requesting coffee and a favorite kind of potato soup that was local to the area. She was able to at least be transferred.

In the meantime, as we continue to cover this, I want to thank you for joining us today, also for your remarkable bravery in the work that you do. I don't know how you do it. It's really terrific. Thank god for people like you. There's really a grave need for more people like you. Thank you for being with us today.

SAYAH: Thank you for having me.

BANFIELD: I want to turn my attention to Sanjay Gupta, who's standing by. That ambulance, I'm not sure if you have a monitor, but it is on its way. It's making its way through the streets of Atlanta towards your location right now at Emory University Hospital.

What does the scene look like where you are? Are they getting prepared for that imminent arrival?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's going to be right behind me. That's the hospital building. You can't really see it too well where they're going to go specifically.

The area they go, up into that isolation unit, is sort of the back part of the hospital. But that should happen quickly. It's only about 20 minutes away, about 20 to 30 minutes away.

It looks like they're not running into much traffic. They should be here quickly. We'll hear them, I think, before we see them, but that should be shortly here.

This is sort of a repeat of what happened with Dr. Brantly just a couple days ago. They will -- there's a fair amount of security in the area. There's a fair amount of security specifically where the ambulance is going to stop and release Miss Writebol. Again, this is just sort of unfolding here as we're all watching it together.

BANFIELD: I just want to reiterate that she's just in the last few minutes been transferred into that ambulance. It is a specialized ambulance, as was her jet that brought her back from Africa this morning.

She flew through most of the night with a quick refueling stop in Bangor, Maine, before touching down at the air base there in Georgia. So the transfer's happened, and she'll be arriving.

If we're able to get that same shot, when Dr. Brantly arrived and walked by himself out of that ambulance and into the hospital, whether Writebol is in the same condition.

You might remember the reporting early on, she received her treatment, the Mapp drug treatment, after Dr. Brantly did, and did not respond to her first administration of that drug as spectacularly as Brantly did and was given a second dose of it.

The most recent reporting we have on her condition is her appetite returned, that she was conscious and speaking. Whether she's ambulatory at this point, we don't know that. A lot of the medical information, understandably, has been closely guarded. Stephen Morse is a professor of epidemiology at Columbia university. We spoke just a few moments ago, as we're watching the live picture of the ambulance.

We spoke about what you'll look for if we get the shot of her when she arrives. If she's not walking, is that -- I'm just going to break in. I've got two breaking stories right now. I apologize, Dr. Morse.

I want to take us to the Pentagon right away because we're getting a briefing from Rear Admiral John Kirby.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: -- believed to be an Afghan solider fired today into a group of coalition troops at the Marshal Fahim National Defense University in Kabul City, Afghanistan.

There are a number of casualties as a result of the shooting, perhaps up to 15, to include some Americans. Many were seriously wounded. Others received only minor injuries. The assailant was killed.

I can also confirm that among the casualties was an American general officer who was killed. Given that the family notification process is not yet complete, I cannot and will not release additional information about the general. I'm sure you can understand that we want to respect the notification process and the family's privacy at this time.

Secretary Hagel extends on behalf of the men and women of this department his heartfelt condolences, his thoughts and his prayers to all those affected by this tragedy, most especially the family of our fallen soldier.

The secretary spoke with General Dunford who updated him about the incident, and he pledged whatever support he and this department can provide with respect to the investigation.

The incident will be jointly investigated by Afghan and ISAF authorities. That investigation is just now getting under way. We need to let it proceed before speculating about any specific circumstances.

With that, I'll take your questions.

Bob?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Admiral, you say that the assailant was believed to be an Afghan soldier.

KIRBY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you elaborate at all? Was he a known member of the army? He was in uniform and was using a issued firearm or --

KIRBY: Well, as I said, right now, the investigation is just now getting started. We believe that the assailant was an Afghan soldier.

But, I mean, I'm caveating it by saying "we believe," because, again, this investigation just got started. The incident just occurred.

But I've seen no indications -- we've had no indications that he was anything other than a member of the Afghan security forces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there some sort of a large gathering? Was it an instructional situation or was it a training --

KIRBY: As I understand it, it was a routine visit to the national defense -- to the university, which is akin to their sort of officers academy.

But I would point you to ISAF for the exact details. I don't know. It was a routine site visit, is I understand it. But, again, the circumstances surrounding how it --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it by the general --

KIRBY: No, by -- by the general and other coalition staff members.

And as I said at the outset, and maybe I didn't make this clear enough, I mean, not all of the casualties are American. So that there were other coalition members that fell victim to the shooting.

So, as I understand it, it was a coalition -- an ISAF site visit to the university. I really don't have any more details than that about how long they'd been there, what were they looking at. I just don't know.

Yeah, Jim?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Admiral Kirby.

I'm told that this was a vetted soldier who had gone through what is a very serious vetting process for Afghan troops, particularly at a facility like this.

Does this, in your view, identify weaknesses in the vetting process? And I also wondered if -- bigger picture, we're months away from the U.S. handing over security responsibility for Afghanistan to Afghan forces like these.

Does this undermine your confidence in their ability to take over that role?

KIRBY: Great questions, Jim. First, too soon to tell on what this means for the vetting process.

Again, we believe this individual was a member of the Afghan national security forces. We need to let the investigation proceed to figure out exactly who this was before we leap to any conclusions about the vetting process.

On your second question, I would say, and General Dunford mentioned this in his discussion with the secretary today, the Afghan national security forces continue to perform at a very strong level of competition and confidence and warfare capability. They have had a good year securing not one but two national elections, and stopping or minimizing the impact of countless numbers of attacks throughout the country, even in Kabul.

So this is a security force that we believe grows stronger by the week, and they are already in the league in combat mission, throughout the country. They'll be completely in the lead for military operations by the end of the year. We see no change in that, no degradation of that process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wonder if this undermines the trust that coalition forces, particularly U.S. forces, have in their Afghan colleagues in the months remaining before they leave the country.

KIRBY: I've seen no indication there's a degradation of trust between coalition members and their Afghan counterparts, and I would encourage you to, you know, certainly speak to folks that are over there in Afghanistan.

I'm not. I understand I'm here in the Pentagon. But every indication I've seen is the partnering and cooperation just, you know, it gets better and better every week. And I think, again, that's borne in -- that's borne out in the performance that we've seen out of Afghan national security forces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Admiral, after a spate of these green-on-blue insider attacks, several years ago in Afghanistan, the U.S. military instituted several security precautions, several, additional security conditions.

Do you know if any of those precautions were in place during this meeting? Or was it considered so safe that they didn't feel the necessity to undertake those additional security procedures?

KIRBY: You're right, Jim. ISAF did institute some measures to help mitigate the threat. Not eliminate but help mitigate it. As I understand it, some of those measures were in effect.

But I would point you to ISAF for further details on that. Again, all this is going to be looked at in the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said not eliminate. Why can't you eliminate that threat?

KIRBY: I think we've been very honest that the insider threat is probably -- it's a pernicious threat and it's difficult to always ascertain, to come to grips with the scope of it anywhere you are, particularly in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is still a war zone. So it's impossible to eliminate, completely eliminate that threat I think particularly in a place like Afghanistan, but you can work hard to mitigate it and minimize it. ISAF has done that.

As terrible as today is, and it is a terrible day, a terrible tragedy, we haven't seen in the course of the last year or so as you described it a spate of these insider threat attacks. I think that's testament to the good work authorities have done in ISAF to mitigate that threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you give us any details about the incident itself? Was it indoors? Were they meeting? Were they out reviewing the troops? Any further details about how exactly this went down?

KIRBY: Wouldn't go further than how I went to bob's question. It was a site visit to the university by coalition members. Again, I just don't have the details. I wouldn't want to speculate right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or what type of weapon he was using?

KIRBY: I do not.

John?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was the shooter killed by Afghan troops?

KIRBY: I just know he was killed in the process of the attack. I don't have the details.

Missy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- is this the highest ranking death of an American soldier in Afghanistan since the beginning of the war or a certain period? Can you help us conceptualize it that way?

KIRBY: Loathe to make an historical statement now because I don't have the whole history of all the casualties over last 13 years. Clearly, if not the, certainly one of the highest ranking deaths in the war since 9/11.

As you probably know, in the attack on the building on September 11th, 2001, a three-star Army general, the head of their personnel branch, was killed in the building, I believe.

And we can try to do the research on this. I believe this would be the highest ranking death since then.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can we try to get clarification of that later?

KIRBY: I'll certainly do that and also point you to army on this as well. We'll do what we can to try to help you with that. I just don't have that granularity of detail right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does this incident mean this department and Washington generally need to look at the way forward in Afghanistan in terms of the drawdown and what troops will be sent there for force protection or continue to guard against insider attacks?

KIRBY: The investigation is just now getting under way, Phil, so I'm not going to speculate about what it may or may not find. I don't see any impact to the current plans to draw down our forces in Afghanistan and to further support the resolute support mission next year. What is contingent, upon our ability to execute that mission, is getting a bilateral security agreement signed, which we still don't have.

Yes, (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are any of the general officers in the region receiving extra security or are their movements being restricted because of this?

KIRBY: I'd point you to ISIF (ph) for that. No idea.

Halen (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was he the highest ranking officer in the room? And do you have any reason to believe that he was targeted?

KIRBY: Your question presumes it was in a room. And I'm - I'm not going to talk about the specifics of the -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was the highest ranking officer on the site (ph)?

KIRBY: I do not know. I do not know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the other of her - sorry, did --

KIRBY: Did I miss another part of her question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he targeted perhaps or was it random?

KIRBY: Again, that gets to the circumstances under investigation. I don't have that level of detail and I wouldn't speculate at this time.

Tony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) perspective, in 2012, when General Dunfort (ph) was up for his ISIF (ph) nomination, insider attacks were the major news story out of the region in terms of dead -- there was like 25 to 30 that year. Last year, they dropped to like 13 or 14 -

KIRBY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the -- your 1260 report. Can you find out from ISIF from January through now roughly how many insider attacks there were for perspective? I don't expect you to know that off the top of your --

KIRBY: Yes, we'll take it for the - we'll take it for the record, Tony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another part of the world, Iraq, Azal Mehd Khalilzad (ph) today in an op-ed in "The Washington Post" said that the United States is directly now supporting the Kurds with supporting air strikes from Iraq against ISIL (ph) in support of the Kurds, and also helping the Kurds with military assistance, including munitions. Do you have any insight into that? I can tell you that the Defense Department is -- let me tell you what

we are doing. We continue to provide ISIL (ph) coverage over the country. We continue to man and resource those two joint operation centers. One in Erbil, one in Baghdad --

(END LIVE FEED)

BANFIELD: So I just want to reiterate some of the key points as the admiral moves on to a different topic in Iraq, of the breaking news out of Afghanistan, and that is that there is not going to be a confirmation of the name and the identity of the American general who was shot dead by an Afghan -- believed to be an Afghan security forces member today.

But here's the wording that Rear Admiral John Kirby would use, and that is that he believes this is the highest ranking death in Afghanistan since 9/11, being very careful to point out that during 9/11, in the trade center, there was a three-star general who was killed in that attack. So if you couple that as all part of the same combat issue, then perhaps not. But in country, he said, it is believed that this is the highest ranking member who's been killed in the Afghan campaign.

A couple of other serious notes to note as well, and that is that the injuries that were sustained among the up to 15 coalition members rank from minor to serious. One death being the American general. Not only that, but that the investigation has just started and that there's a lot more to follow on this.

Chris Heben, just quickly, there was a question from the gallery, from the press gallery, about the weapon. I just can't, for the life of me, understand how an Afghan army member can have this kind of an automatic weapon in the presence of an American general, no matter what kind of training facility they're in. Can you shed some light on that as a former Navy SEAL and contractor?

CHRIS HEBEN, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Well, Ashleigh, as has been mentioned before, there are a lot of layers of the vetting process. But when you look at our country, we've had two shooting incidents at Ft. Hood in Texas in the United States. So you bring up a very, very good point. Maybe these individuals, despite the vetting process, should have these weapons removed from them and the weapons should just be left for the actual U.S. citizens, soldiers, Army personnel to carry. That's a very good point.

I think it is standard, though, that these guys, once they're vetted, they have unfettered access to all these spaces and they can carry any of the weapons that they normally carry in the field. Obviously you're not going to bring a rocket-propelled grenade or some sort of anti- tank weapon inside of a building. And as the admiral said, we don't even know if this happened inside of a building. So, certainly if it was outside, they were just getting out of a car, there would be people in that surrounding area that did have those weapons in their hand. These weapons are standoff weapons. It allows us to engage targets at a farther distance than some of the smaller weapons that every soldier carries. BANFIELD: Yes.

HEBEN: So depending on where the attack took place, him having a weapon like that in his hand wouldn't be outside of the scope of normal.

BANFIELD: Still surprising to me, I have to say. I always thought the protocol was pretty darn strict when it came to certainly levels of that member - the person who died, the American general.

Chris, hold your thought for a moment. I -- there is more that I wanted to talk about with regard to that, but we also have this breaking news.

The small window on your screen is the ambulance as it's arriving at Emory University Hospital carrying Nancy Writebol after her very long journey. She is, of course, that American aid worker who was stricken with the Ebola virus in Africa. She has been treated with a very experimental drug called ZMapp. She showed some signs of progress, as did Kent Brantly, who arrived just two days ago. The same protocol, jumped on the same plane and right now is on this specially equipped ambulance. It's like an isolation ambulance. And she is likely with a caregiver, as Dr. Brantly was as well, when he arrived at the hospital. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our chief medical correspondent, is standing by live at the Emory University Hospital.

I think that van - or rather that ambulance that's just crossing the intersection is getting very close to your location, Sanjay.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yep, we can hear the activity, Ashleigh. There's a helicopter, maybe more than one helicopter, flying overhead and the ambulance -- sort of get an idea of where that ambulance is now. It's obviously a little bit of a convey.

This is the hospital just behind me over here. Just to give you an idea, Ashleigh, they're going to be pulling in behind that building or close to it. And probably the same door that we saw Dr. Brantly get in just a few days ago. She will probably be escorted in some way out of the ambulance through that door. We don't know, as you pointed out, Ashleigh, what sort of condition she's in, if she's going to be able to walk on her own or need some assistance or even be on a gurney. But we're going to see that here I hope and I think in just a - just few minutes here, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Sanjay, when she gets there, and I'll get to the protocol of getting her in the hospital and through the hospital where there are clearly other patients and staff members who would be understandably a bit nervous. What exactly are they going to do for her now that she's already been given ZMapp, that treatment? What now can they do for her while she's in isolation?

GUPTA: Well, there's -- you know, there's several things, Ashleigh. We know they're going to assess the rest of her bodily functions, find out if her - how her kidneys, her liver, her heart, her lungs, how they're doing. They want to get an idea of just how healthy she is and how much of an impact this infection has had on her. She's also, you know, the ZMapp, interestingly, is usually given as three doses separated by 72 hours each. So she's scheduled to get another dose of that as well on Wednesday. And we know Emory University Hospital has been talking to the NIH and to the FDA about getting that medication for her here.

But she's going to go to the isolation area, obviously. If she -- one of the main stays of treatment for an Ebola infection is to replace fluids. People tend to lose a lot of fluids. They can become dehydrated as a result. Sometimes they can have bleeding problems. I don't know if she's had that problem. If she has, they may give blood products back. That's all part of, you know, my guess over the next few hours they're going to be making those assessments, making those decisions, and then hopefully implementing some of the treatments that she may need.

And you see her pulling up now behind the hospital where - again, where I'm standing right now, just on the other side of that.

BANFIELD: And hopefully we'll get a view of that Sanjay. We had a clear view of Dr. Kent Brantly as he emerged from the back of that same ambulance on Saturday and was able to walk, you know, of his own volition, completely ambulatory, albeit slow, but that was a pretty debilitating suit that he was wearing, as his caregiver was as well.

And just quickly to that end, Sanjay, I'm only assuming that these two patients, these two sort of highly significant patients at Emory University have to have 24-hour barrier care. And when I say barrier care, it's like the barrier nursing description, where you're head to toe in what looks like sort of the Tyvek (ph) covering, and there's got to be - there's got to be staff on hand at all times who are like that, correct?

GUPTA: That's right. I mean people who are going to have direct patient contact are going to need to have that Tyvek covering, that bio protective covering, the so-called space suit.

The goal is pretty simple there. You know, we talk about this, again, just going back to the 10,000 foot view of this. Ebola is highly infectious but not highly contagious, meaning that just a small amount of body fluid, which contains the virus, can make somebody ill. But it's not something that spreads through the air. So it's not contagious in that regard.

So, you know, I -- the people who are going to have the closest contact need to be protected. But people who are even a few feet away really don't need to be protected. They certainly don't need to be wearing those suits. But the isolation room, which we have described before for Dr. Brantly, it's going to be the same, we understand, for Miss Writebol as well. Sort of a -- almost sort of a glass box. It has glass walls that allows them -- family, health care personnel, to see her. She'll have an intercom, a phone in her room to be able to communicate. But I think all of that's going to be for a little bit later.

We know her family is here. We know that they are obviously anxious to see her. We know that they're going to do a little press briefing after they see her.

Obviously you see the doors of the ambulance opening now.

BANFIELD: And, Sanjay, yes, we can now see that it looks as though Miss Writebol is --

GUPTA: She's on a stretcher.

BANFIELD: Yes, she's on a stretcher. She is not walking, as Dr. Kent Brantly was able to do. I don't - I don't know if you can see from this view, but it doesn't appear that there is a respirator. There is some medical equipment with that gurney and the two workers. But is there anything you can glean from the picture you can see, Sanjay?

GUPTA: No, I see the same thing. We did not think that she would be on a breathing machine. You know, as you know, she asked for food the other day. This -- you know, she got her appetite back, was asking for food. Obviously, that's not something she could have done if she was on a breathing machine. But she is, you can see, strapped in. That's pretty standard for somebody who's being transported by ambulance if they're not ambulatory. A safety precaution. And they're taking her now into the hospital. You obviously can't tell much more about her condition just from those images. You can see those suits though, again, Ashleigh, those Tyvek suits just going inside the building.

BANFIELD: And, Sanjay, just help me understand, what would the protocol be for all of the people who work at that hospital and all of the patients who are currently in that hospital, what would they have had to do to make way for this remarkable patient transfer?

GUPTA: You know, one thing I should point out, and I'm on faculty at this hospital, so we got some notices about this whole process going down, but there was no special protocol or precautions given to the faculty and to the physicians here.

BANFIELD: Wow.

GUPTA: They were made aware that this was happening. But one thing that they did state is that the area where this isolation ward is, is separate from other patient areas. So it's not something where, you know, she's going to be just down the hall from other patients who are getting care. She will be in the same isolation ward as Dr. Kent Brantly. But it's a separated area. So only the physicians and nurses who are responsible for her care should really be in that area. And they, obviously, know the precautions they need to take.

But, you know, someone like me, you know, obviously, all the people that are on the grounds here that are part of the Emery community, business as usual, Ashleigh. There's no specific precautions being given. I think we were just all made aware.

BANFIELD: So I'm going to ask you about the suits that they were wearing in a moment, but before I do that, I want to ask you, how long are these two patients considered to be contagious? Meaning, when they start to show signs that they're recovering, are they still a danger? And how do you know when they're no longer a danger to the others? GUPTA: That's a great question, really important. So on the beginning

side of this, someone does not become infectious until they start to get sick. The point that they're sick, they may start to shed the virus into their body fluids. That means the body fluids could then have virus in it and that could potentially be of concern to the health care workers that are caring for them. Again, that's why they wear the suits.

Even after someone starts to feel well, it's important to make sure that the virus is actually gone from the body. It can stay in the body for a period of time after that. So that's one thing that they will likely be checking is just checking virus level in the body to sort of give an idea of when the person is clear to leave the hospital, no longer a risk to family members, other people they may come in close contact with. So that is probably what's going to be happening over the next several days. We don't know, you know, how long that's going to be for them, but it is going to involve pretty regular checks of their blood and just simple things like monitoring their temperature, seeing when their fever, if they have one, starts to come back down.

BANFIELD: Right. And can you just give me about 20 seconds on the suits as we look at that picture again of Nancy Writebol entering Emory University Hospital on a stretcher with her two very carefully protected workers?

GUPTA: Head to toe, no skin showing, is sort of the goal here. They wear a - a hood. You can see that it actually has an air purifying system in it. Much better, I will tell you, I wore one of these suits when I was in Guinea. The air purifying system allows the air to circulation in the hood. It gets very, very hot, as you might imagine. In fact, in Guinea, you could only wear these suits for under an hour.

BANFIELD: Yes.

GUPTA: But here, obviously, they're wearing them for the same protective purposes.

BANFIELD: Well, Sanjay, you're just terrific. Thank you so much for doing that incredible play by play live at Emory University Hospital. Sanjay Gupta, our chief medical reporter working live on the scene as Nancy Writebol arrives after a very long journey from Liberia, to be cared for right here in the United States. She is now on her way into that isolation unit to join Dr. Kent Brantly, who's been there for two days.

Thanks, everyone, for watching. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, is going to continue our coverage right after this break.