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DR. DREW

Nationwide Manhunt for Runaway Mom; Extreme Hoarders Harming Themselves and Others; Beloved Teacher Found Dead in Piles of Garbage; New Funeral Trend; Caught on Tape: Frustrations in Her Pants

Aired June 16, 2014 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, a nationwide manhunt for a woman on the run with her daughter.

LILLY`S DAD: I don`t believe being on the run is psychologically okay for a two-year-old.

PINSKY: Why did mom take her kid and disappear?

LILLY`S DAD: I do fear for my daughter`s life

PINSKY: Her mother is here.

Plus, hoarders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She apparently felt who went into the basement and stuff fell in on top of her.

PINSKY: One woman dies buried under a mountain of her own making.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no access to the basement except from an outside hatch, and that was covered with debris.

PINSKY: The other surrounded by piles of garbage and 50 cats.

Our behavior bureau breaks it all down.

And a Facebook favorite, caught on tape, a shoplifter jammed pricey lobster tails in her pants.

Watch here as she stops to adjust the seafood.

Let`s get started.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Good evening, of course my cohost is Samantha Scahcer. And coming up, incredible video. Hoarders, one who`s killed in her home because it

collapses on her by the wait of all the materials. She was also found - no, we have another one that was found with 50 cats in the house.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER: Yeah, and we got a lot of Twitter reaction from you guys at home.

PINSKY: Yeah, you guys are going nuts about this one.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: But first we have a nationwide search underway right now for a two-year-old girl. Police believe the girl`s own mother kidnapped the

daughter because she didn`t want the girl to be brainwashed or vaccinated. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An arrest warrant has been issued for 22-year-old Megan Everett after she ran away with her two-year-old daughter Lilly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two vanished just before the child`s father went to pick up the girl from this home in Sunrise.

LILLY`S DAD: My daughter deserves to be safe and happy and I don`t believe being on the run is, you know, psychologically OK for a two-year-old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only clue, this letter Megan Everett left for her boyfriend in which she says she cannot let a judge decide how Lilly is

raised.

LILLY`S DAD: "The note stated that she cannot allow her daughter to be vaccinated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) believes Megan may have taken some guns and ammo with her from the house.

LILLY`S DAD: Her and her boyfriend are part of an organization called the Virginia Flaggers, a confederate organization. And to me, they`re

extremists.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn`t need to get vaccinated and medical treatment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: The mom also wanted to keep the daughter out of school for fear, get this, everybody, that she might learn black history. Joining us, Mark

Eiglarsh, attorney at SpeakMark.com, we have Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of the Tomboy`s podcast on blog talk radio and Vanessa

Barnett, social commentator and host of hip hollywood.com. Sam, you look at some of these mother`s pictures being online. What do we know about

her?

SCHACHER: Yes, so I went on a Facebook page that was set up in honor of Lilly. Bring Lilly home. And there were some pictures of this mother

Megan as well as Carlos, that`s the current boyfriend, they`ve been together for year and a half.

PINSKY: So, let me stop you. Carlos is not a guy that we saw in that video. That was the baby daddy.

SCHACHER: Yes, and there`s Carlos right there. You can see right there.

PINSKY: Carlos is the Virginia flagger?

SCHACHER: Yes. So, both of them, you see pictures with him, with Confederate Flags. They`re a member of this group where there`s rallying

and there`s protests to raise this Confederate flag in the South and also try to adopt those earlier policies of the confederacy. And it`s really

quite extremist and racists and you also see pictures of Carlos with their daughter and his rifle.

PINSKY: Oh, there we are.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHACHER: And it`s just alarming. The pictures are unsettling.

PINSKY: I almost don`t know where to start with this. So, let me go to Leeann first. Leann, I`m sure you have tons of outrage. And I just don`t

know what to make of this. I mean we have to intervene, do we not? This girls seems to be in danger.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think so. I think actually the most troubling part to me, Drew, and we`ve talked about this on your

podcast before is the vaccinating of children. We`ve had an outbreak in California recently that are endangering a lot of our children, and, you

know, vaccines are probably the most effective health initiative of the modern era. Not only do you need to vaccinate your child, but that affects

the entire community which affects the entire United States. So, I`m more concerned about that and the immediate right now than I am worried about

the boyfriend being a re-enactor and worried about bringing back the South and the Confederacy.

SCHACHER: It`s not a re-enactor, though, it`s much more than that. They are pretty extreme, and we all know that the confederate flag has been

appropriated by a lot of hate groups. Like the KKK.

And, you know, it represents white power and segregation and racism, so it`s much more than that.

PINSKY: And Vanessa.

TWEEDEN: But the mom took the girl away because she didn`t want her to be vaccinated. I`m not really worried about that.

PINSKY: I`m with you on the vaccine. Vanessa go.

VANESSA BARNETT: The vaccination is only a small part of it.

SCHACHER: Yes.

BARNETT: And it may just be something that she threw out there just to divert attention from the fact that she is a racist. And she`s a gun

toting Confederate flag waving racist. And what she said was that she wanted to take her child away so that she wasn`t brainwashed when the irony

of this whole thing is, it sounds like she`s been brainwashed by this new boyfriend.

PINSKY: That`s exactly right.

BARNETT: And that`s reason why she`s actually in right now.

PINSKY: Vanessa, I believe you. That is exactly right. This is a coercive and controlling relationship.

BARNETT: Absolutely.

PINSKY: So, and everyone knows that if you teach black history, I mean my goodness, nothing can be worse than that.

BARNETT: And black history is American history, I just want to throw that out there.

PINSKY: Vanessa, touche! That you`re right on both of those comments. So, Mark, don`t we have an obligation to intervene given that this is a

coercive and controlling relationship with this dude, that has probably brainwashed her, a child that may not be vaccinated that could be in danger

as a result, and could endanger other children. Don`t we have an obligation to step in here?

MARK EIGLARSH, SPEAKTOMARK.COM: Yes, on everything you just said. First, let me defend one tiny part of this and then I`m going to clobber her. It

is her constitutional right to feel differently than other people concerning issues and even vaccination. It`s her right to feel that way.

But where she crosses the line is when she takes this kid and kidnaps the child. She`s committed a criminal offense. Children need some basic

things like stability, like love. This woman is now running all over God knows where with this child and depriving the child of basic needs. We

have to get involved.

PINSKY: Yeah, I don`t know, Mark. We`ve covered so many stories on this show where people with hateful views have become hateful actors. Isn`t

there some sort of intermediate ground we can kind of like intervene? Without the - I understand, I don`t want to be the thought police. I don`t

want to be the - I don`t want to crush free speech ...

EIGLARSH: No, no, no.

PINSKY: Which we seem to all the intent on doing these days. Go ahead.

EIGLARSH: There`s a warrant - there`s a warrant out for her arrest for kidnapping her child. There`s a father who is supposed to legally have

access to this child. You then take her into custody and then you evaluate what we`re dealing with.

PINSKY: All right. The mom of the mother, the mom of the mom of the missing girl will join me right after this. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: The only clue, this letter Megan Everett left for her boyfriend in which she says she cannot let a judge decide how Lilly is raised.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LILLY`S DAD: The note stated that she cannot allow her daughter to be vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and we`re talking about a 22-year-old woman who`s wanted by the FBI for having kidnapped her own daughter. She left

that note you just saw saying she did not want the daughter to be brainwashed or vaccinated and as Vanessa pointed out in the last segment,

great point, she`s the one, the mom is the one being brainwashed. Let`s bring in our behavior bureau. Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor at

Pepperdine University, Erica America, psychotherapist, the 100 radio personality and Shirley Impellizzeri, clinical psychologist. Surely,

you`re up first. Your local police do not believe the child is in imminent danger. Do you think there`s something really problematic going on here?

SHIRLEY IMPELLIZZERRI: You know, it depends. If the mom believes that the child is going to be in danger then she might do something. Because she`s

sounding a little delusional.

So, that`s the risk that`s run with a mother who thinks that her child is in danger.

PINSKY: And do you think this coercive and controlling, you know, Confederate flag waving boyfriend has sort of fed into that delusion or is

he the one who`s maybe creating the paranoia?

IMPELLIZZERRI: Oh, absolutely, I think he has. When you see - you know, when you read what the mother said that she was fine, she had a homosexual

friend that now she doesn`t talk to, an African American friend that she doesn`t talk to, I think he`s influenced her. And when you influence with

fear, you can unfortunately easily influence people.

PINSKY: It`s coercive and controlling relationships.

IMPELLIZZERRI: Yeah.

PINSKY: It`s just like being in a mini cult. It`s like literally like a mini cult. But then she and this one guy, and the child is swept into

this.

IMPELLIZZERRI: Yeah.

PINSKY: All right. On the phone, I have Pam Everett. She is actually Megan`s mom. Megan is, of course, the mother of the little girl Lilly.

Pam, do you give what we are saying here, does it seem like your daughter has changed under the influence of this boyfriend?

PAM EVERETT, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: Most definitely. And that does seem like a cult to me.

PINSKY: Yeah. Has she ever run away before?

PAM EVERETT: She has run away once before.

PINSKY: Tell me about that.

PAM EVERETT: She ran to Canada. She stayed there for about ten months and then she came back but nothing like this.

SCHACHER: Before she had the kid. Pam, do you know - OK< Carlos claims to police that he knows, you know, nothing about where the whereabouts are of

your daughter and granddaughter. Do you believe him? Do you think that he knows where they are?

PAM EVERETT: Oh, he definitely knows where they are. She`s not the same person that she is today.

PINSKY: Erica, do you have a question?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Sorry, Pam.

ERICA AMERICA, RADIO PERSONALITY: Yeah, no, I was just saying back to that time you said that she left for like an online relationship, kind of tells

me that she is a little bit impulsive, because not everybody would just do that, and maybe easily influenced, so maybe it`s kind of, you know,

progressed to a man that has these somewhat delusional believes and now that he`s actually taken - she`s taken the daughter away from a shared

custody agreement, it`s a legal issue here. I think that this is red flags all over the place. You don`t know where she could go. I`m not saying

she`s a bad person at all, but under the influence of this man, I mean he already carries his gun - all day long.

PINSKY: But Erica can go to a bad place and that`s what we`re all fearful of. My question to Pam before you let you go, Pam, is what`s your greatest

fear here?

PAM EVERET: I`m very, very worried about Lilly. He has way too much control over both of them and I really don`t know what Megan will do. She

has issues about being alone. If she`s alone somewhere, she`s going to go even more crazy.

PINSKY: Pam, thank you for joining us. We`re going to continue to watch this story. Judy, I want to go to you. Do you agree with what Shirley

said about the mom being somewhat delusional?

JUDY HO, PH.D.: No, I`m not sure that the delusional part is really the part that I`m focusing on. When I look at this case, I think that it`s

more important for us to think about how, as Pam says, she has problems being alone. That she`s basically somebody who`s been looking for somebody

to make her whole. She`s looking for a man to kind of solve all of her problems. And so, you can see why she`s so easily influenced here. I

don`t` really know if it`s delusional as much as it is rigidity that she`s such a staunch believer now in some of these values that weren`t even her

values just a while ago.

PINSKY: But the rigidity, Judy, is to retain the approval of this guy.

HO: Right.

PINSKY: And it is kind of a delusional sort of a dance there joined together, and the fascinating thing to me is there`s a social media

component of this. For instance, as you mentioned, Judy, she was meeting guys online, getting swept into their undertow. Also there`s a Facebook

page called bring Lilly home. It`s attracted a lot of attention. Erica, let me ask you this about the social media. Is this going to be a useful

tool now in finding missing children?

AMERICA: Yeah, I mean it might be. We have to use Facebook for the positive things that it can. Putting her face out there, if you know

someone sees the mother with the daughter, you know, it could possibly help. But I think that we definitely have to take this very seriously

because the daughter isn`t hurt yet, but it could go that way. You know, so we have to be very careful.

PINSKY: Shirley, final thoughts here. You started our conversation. Give us our final thoughts.

IMPELLIZZERI: Well, yeah, my final thought, I mean is you look at the picture of her boyfriend. I mean I`m not diagnosing him. I`ve never met

him. But he has that reptilian gaze. Which is - which shows up in sociopaths, and so he`s influencing her to not trust people, to only trust

him, it`s a fear based, you know, influence. And so it makes sense that she`s doing what she`s doing. It`s certainly, it`s not right and it could

hurt the child. But if you look at that picture that you just showed on screen, you kind of see that look.

SCHACHER: What do you think, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: I think it`s exactly what -- I agree with everybody on this panel. But I`ve got to tell you what the thing that disturbs me is the fact that

people get into course of the controlling relationships and they don`t understand that they`re under the sway of another person, fear based, as

Shirley said, and they could begin to adopt the attitudes and believes of another person to the detriment of themselves and everyone else - and their

family. And they literally are brainwashed, brainwashing exists, as Pam asked me, if it does exist, it does, and it needs a lot of work to get

people out. It`s not that easy to extract somebody from something like this. And here now we are witnessing dire, potentially dire consequences.

Speaking of dire consequences, next up I`ve got a hoarder crushed to death by the weight of her own stuff and don`t forget, we`re still asking you

please to like us on Facebook. Remember that? We were in a competition and we need your help. So, please stick around we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Neighbors had been concerned about their neighbor`s mental health for years. So they called the cops on Thursday just to check on Beverly

Mitchell who they say was reclusive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She apparently fell through into the basement and stuff fell in on top of her.

PINSKY: Outside The Winslow Rhode (ph) home, you could see plenty of debris, like garbage, mail and phone books.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cops couldn`t find her the first time. There was no access to the basement except from an outside hatch, and that was

covered with debris.

PINSKY: Because she kept herself. They along with police are just not sure when the floor collapsed and how long she had been dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Judy, Erica and Vanessa. That woman`s house collapsed as you heard there under the weight of the things she`s been

hoarding for years. The floor collapsed into the basement. Police had to break into a window to get into the house. Once before she told them when

they broke in through all of the garbage that she and her mother were fine. The mom passed away within the last two years. Judy, people are fascinated

with hoarders. They don`t really understand what this is. It`s not a rational thing, so it`s not an easy thing to explain to people. Two points

I want to go around the horn with, which is one, Judy, please mention how it`s associated with other psychiatric conditions and b, why don`t people

with hoarding have any insight into what`s happening?

HO: Great question, Dr. Drew. So, in my work with hoarders, I`ve found that a lot of them have attachment issues with people that their attachment

has been broken, that they`ve been through abuse and so they are now attaching to objects. And when we ask them to get rid of these objects as

part of treatment, they feel like a piece of themselves is being ripped away from them.

PINSKY: But I don`t mean to interrupt you, I`ve dealt with a lot of schizophrenics and people with psychotic illnesses and a lot of

disorganized personality disorder problems, disorganized attachments, I imagine, as you say. And those have been the common times, in which I`ve

seen extreme hoarding like this. Is that - and when I watch the hoarding TV shows, Erica, I always am thinking they`re schizophrenics in many times

and they`re not bringing that out.

AMERICA: I see. OK. So, hoarding disorder is about two to five percent of the total population and it was recently given its own diagnosis.

Before it was very linked to OCD. Or it would be - by its nature it`s an obsessive and a compulsive thing. So, it bothers me when people are like,

why can`t they just clean it up? It`s because they can`t. It`s compulsive to - it`s obsessive the thoughts, it`s compulsive to keep. And, you know,

when it becomes a problem is when it interferes with functioning, with relationships, with their job. As this woman - in her case it was deadly.

It also - it goes along with depression and anxiety, so, you know, it really needs to be a holistic approach from the psychological point of

view.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: Yeah, I had a personal experience with a hoarder. And what troubles me is the fact that we had no idea. I mean we knew that this

person collected and they were a collector, as well as the partner that they lived with, but it was until finally one of them, they are quite

older, had to be taken to the hospital that we knew the extent of it. And this was a four story home, floor to ceiling filled with stuff. But on the

outside of the home, very well-educated, very well presented, dressed really nice.

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: You would have never known, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Listen, I`ve got another hoarding case, this involves animals, a woman found with dead puppies in her home. Police investigated, they found

37 bags of decomposing dogs at her mother`s house that this woman had horded. She claimed to be operating animal rescue, but the cops also found

nine living dogs and the dead dogs. The living dogs were in a barn without adequate food and water. So, Vanessa, I haven`t heard from you yet. I

mean you know, you should - here`s the thing. I mean you can look at my desk. It`s pretty bad. My desk at home. It`s bad. I understand being

unable to clean things up. But come on now.

BARNETT: That`s my point. I understand that this might be a psychological thing, I get you guys are doctors and you have to label that and I get it.

But what I don`t understand is. OK, you want to collect stuff, you`re attached to stuff but nobody wants cat feces. Nobody wants dead dogs, so

where is that attachment? Why do they keep those kinds of things and why are they putting themselves in that kind of unhealthy situation? You`re

not supposed to breathe that kind of stuff. So, it becomes, I guess, for us outside the doctor realm who don`t really get it, we understand the

attachments of physical things, but I don`t think we get the attachment to the disgusting things that are really gross and really damaging to their

health. And on the flip side, these people, I feel like for the first story, the police were there, they saw how bad it was. Don`t you have to

condemn these houses when they get to this state?

PINSKY: Yeah, I would say.

BARNETT: I`m really upset about this animal one. Because this is just pure abuse. They animals on one side did survive were emaciated, they were

in poor, poor condition. And not to place blame on anybody, but this disturbing disgusting woman. But when you`re a pet owner and you`re going

to go drop off your animal, she called it, to a ranch, I would hope that you would go to this place and you would tour the facility and make sure

that it`s safe for you animal.

PINSKY: And Judy, a lot of these sort of problems, let`s call them, get sort of glossed over with a term like they`re animal lovers, they just have

to have lots of animals around them. Or as Sam said, they`re collectors. How do we tell when someone has gone from an animal lover to really a

hoarder?

HO: Well, I think there`s actually some links to the fact that they do have a very limited amount of insight yet they still continue to do these

things. Bring it over the top. And so, there is that similarity to OCD as Erica mentioned earlier where the individuals actually know that they`re

obsessions and compulsions are a little bit over the top but they just can`t get themselves out of it. They still have to do it anyway because it

lessens their anxiety. That`s the mechanism at work. So, this type of person, this woman with these dogs, she may have, you know, all of these

great ideas and dreams to help these dogs, that`s how she got into this. But when she wasn`t able to help them, she couldn`t let go of them either.

AMERICA: Yeah.

HO: And so, then that lessen or anxiety actually to keep this dead bodies around, because it reminds of the person she`s trying to be because she`s

an animal lover. Does that make sense?

PINSKY: Yeah, that kind of sneaks up on them. They always intend to get things right, but then it just - it accumulates and accumulates and just

never happens. Erica?

AMERICA: Yeah, I know, I just want to say very well said, Dr. Judy. And so that`s why because there is that little insight, the family and friends

of the person are so important to really push them into treatment because they may not be able to do it themselves. So, that`s really, really

important if you see someone or you may suspect that there`s hoarding going on, to actually, you know, in a nice way have a conversation about it. And

say that there is a way out, there is help.

PINSKY: I`ve got someone next who`s a hoarder found dead, this time with 50 cats. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Santa Ana police officers dressed in hazmat suits crawl over debris and garbage, piles five feet high in spots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was in fact sleeping in her truck, not in the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say she was found sitting in a chair in her front yard surrounded by debris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It took approximately three hours for them to remove the debris to get her body out of the front yard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities found two dogs and 30 cats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s sad, you know, that she passed the way she did in the mess.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Mark, Leeann and Judy. We`re talking about a woman who was a beloved teacher found dead in those piles of garbage you saw.

There up to 5 bee hive. The online comments show that she -- this woman was very well liked but people knew he was a hoarder. Mark, this kind of goes

at an issue I`m struggling with. Do we have an obligation to help somebody like that or we have no business going in and making her clean things up.

EIGLARSH: No. She has the right to do what she wants. She`s a grown ass adult, Drew. Unless she`s a harm to someone else or herself then, you don`t

do anything. What I learned though, I always thought like why are they collecting all that garbage? The answer is it has less to do of what

they`re collecting. It`s more of a fear of getting rid of stuff.

PINSKY: Right, that`s exactly right.

EIGLARSH: The anxiety is overwhelming for them. That`s what I`m focusing on now.

PINSKY: Yeah. And, Judy, people tend to have a lot of denial about this, too. They don`t see what`s happening. In fact, people -- the rest of us,

again we gloss it over, we use terms like pack rat, right? But it requires -- even when you try to give these people insight, they really resist it

and they won`t let go.

HO.: They absolutely resist it, Dr. Drew, and you know what helps them with that, is isolation. So, as they get more and more into their hoarding, they

don`t want to be found out. They don`t wanna talk to people about it because they really don`t want to change their behaviors. So, what do that

do? They isolate, they stop socializing, they stop having people over right, because then everybody will see what their habits are.

PINSKY: Yeah. But, Leeann, they`re lonely but they -- couldn`t they endanger the rest us from a health standpoint?

TWEEDEN: Well, I mean, maybe, Drew. But, you know, when I think about hoarders, I always think about people that are alone, and she was 72 years

old and she was alone. I mean, I think where were the family members checking on her, and you know, she was very revered by her students, by the

people she worked with in the community. And sometimes I think, you know, it`s sad, but people don`t really want to step in in this case because

she`s not a family member. So, she`s hoarding and...

(CROSSTALK)

TWEEDEN: ...not affecting them.

SCHACHER: Right, exactly.

PINSKY: Mark, go ahead. Mark.

EIGLARSH: Why should they in this instance. You know, this woman I think was the exception. They loved her in the community. I was surprised. I

thought people who were interviewed on the street would say, that woman and her smelly cats. No, most of them actually said, she was beloved. So, the

answer is, she died peacefully on her -- let her be. That`s her choice. That`s her life.

SCHACHER: Right. I agree, but it can`t be a happy healthy way to live. And a question to you, Judy, because a lot...

EIGLARSH: That`s not how you would live.

SCHACHER: Well, I can`t imagine that they are happy inside, I mean, surrounding yourself at that.

PINSKY: And, by the way, I think, Leeann, had a direct attack at, Sam, because, Sam, knew some hoarders and didn`t intervene. Sam, why didn`t you?

TWEEDEN: Well, no, I mean, we talk about horrific things like people starving their children and neighbors don`t do anything but people leave

the hoarders alone.

PINSKY: Hoarders nearly hiding.

SCHACHER: Yeah. And that`s my point and that`s what I wanted to ask you, Judy, because the ones that I knew were very well educated and very well-

dressed and showed up to family functions but at the same time they were very reclusive and did their own thing. So, how are you supposed to be AB

(ph) fully aware and then, B, be able to encourage them to go out and get help.

PINSKY: And if I could follow on, Judy, the point that, Sam, makes here about them being reclusive and different, sometimes people focus on those

other sort of features of, maybe it`s mental illness or something else rather that the hoarding. They see that. They don`t see the hoarding.

HO: That`s right. Great questions, because really what we see when we see these people with these double lives is that there are some associations in

terms of their personality characteristics. What is associated is that individuals like this tend to be a little reclusive, be a little bit

different but they`re also pretty smart. They actually can get away with having a double life and having nobody find out about it and sometimes

people who have this sort of obsessive tendency it`s helped them to get to where they are in their career.

(CROSSTALK)

TWEEDEN: Everybody knew about this woman. I mean, her house was a mess. She had three different houses, they were all a mess and people still didn`t do

anything. And what I say is I feel bad that she didn`t have any family members. When you watch the show Hoarders it`s usually a family, a daughter

thing -- a mom we wanna be able to come visit you in the house and see your grandkids, and we need to clean this house up. She was alone obviously. So,

nobody did anything.

HO: But, Leeann, you know, she`s still functioning and I think that`s why people were hands off, because she was doing very well...

(CROSSTALK)

EIGLARSH: They say -- experts say that this type of behavior begins often in teenage years and then it becomes very severe as people get older. What

do you recommend that people do if they see signs of it when somebody is a teenager?

PINSKY: Well, that`s where I was going next, Mark, which is that although we sit here and theorize about it and talk about this problem, I`m telling

you and I know anyone that knows someone with this problem, it is daunting, it is difficult. It`s easy to say, oh, why didn`t you just intervene, let`s

go after them and make them better. They don`t want to get better. This is something they cling to like crazy. If you`ve ever seen the hoarding

television show, you see how tough it is to get them even just to throw the trash away. It`s difficult usually in my experience there`s been a second

psychiatric problem you can treat and then you can address the hoarding. But if it`s pure hoarding it`s extremely difficult. It`s easy for us sit

here and talk about it, very hard to treat.

Next up, new funeral trend that might surprise you. It actually upsets me. And be sure to like us on Facebook. I`m so upset about this -- you`re going

to -- that funeral thing is so bizarre. All right, please, like us on Facebook, we got to win this competition. We need you all help. So, please

help us. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In life Marianne Burbank loved a cold beer and an occasional scotch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She gets down. Fifty three, she`s not a normal 53.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, it`s only fitting that all of it be captured as part of her home going. Burbank`s daughters had a vision and presented it to

funeral directors at (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said that, you know, they didn`t want a traditional religious type service.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Burbank is sitting at a table wearing saints colors, her fingernails are even painted black and gold. She`s got her Busch beer and

menthol cigarettes. It was a celebration of life just as Burbank would have wanted it.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam, Vanessa, Mike, and Erica. My skin is crawling and all I have to say is come on. Come on. Does anybody else feel that way?

EIGLARSH: Nope.

PINSKY: Of course you don`t. Sam, you`re into it. Erica, Come on.

BARNETT: If that`s what she wanted.

AMERICA: No. I completely agree. I mean, first obviously this goes against, you know, a million religions for, you know, how to, you know, do a

religious ceremony. That`s not even what`s bothering me. What`s bothering me is where is this going next? As technology moves forward, are we going

to then taxidermy our grandpa?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: That`s what that is.

AMERICA: That`s basically what this is. I feel like there`s one thing that needs to be serious and that is the passing of a loved one, and I think

this is a fad. I think it`s little tactless and I hope that it moves on.

PINSKY: Vanessa, dignity, dignified, even opening a casket to me is a little bit like, I really don`t wanna do this. I`m just saying. Now, we`re

going to have somebody propped up?

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: I`m so surprised because you hate to be the thought police but now you`re being the action police, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: No. No. They can do as they please, but I`m just saying, come on.

BARNETT: It might be tacky but this is the way she lived so this is how they wanted to celebrate her life. And some people now, they say, they

don`t want to go to a funeral and cry and mourn and be sad. They want to celebrate the life. She went home to meet her maker and they are want --

they wanna -- look at them. They`re getting down.

PINSKY: I love that. I love the celebration.

BARNETT: They wanna have a good time and celebrate the way she lived. Yeah. It may be creepy. It maybe look weird to us but this is how they celebrate

her life.

PINSKY: Mike -- and God knows where this is going. I mean, this woman was into a little -- you know, a little beer, a little scotch.

MIKE CATHERWOOD: A little?

PINSKY: Very into it evidently. Some vice. I mean, we got to put out lines if somebody is into drugs, and put out lines of cocaine on the table? I`m

just saying, is that what we have to do here?

CATHERWOOD: Listen, she -- first of, she as an adult in this country is well within her right to drink her Busch beer and smoke her menthols.

PINSKY: Of course.

CATHERWOOD: It`s a little different than putting out an elicit drug. Now you, Dr. Drew, are having a terrible reaction to this type of funeral

because you don`t like that. But this is about her. This was about celebrating her life. And if this is how her family wanted to celebrate and

they felt like it was appropriate for her and her way of life, then it`s awesome.

PINSKY: Let see. I`ve got some comments here. We`ve got a tape of loved ones talking about Marianne Burbank`s non-traditional ceremony. Take a

look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I walked in, I felt like I was in her house and I don`t hurt so much because it`s more of her and it`s like she`s not dead.

It`s not like a funeral. It`s like she`s just in the room with us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s amazing for him to capture someone`s actual life, their lifestyle, the way they live. I think that something new

and trending and I think it`s a good way to cross over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Nine hundred of you have been sharing your comments on our Dr. Drew HLN Facebook page. Sam, what are some of the examples?

SCHACHER: Yeah. OK. So, first of all, it looks like that the reaction...

PINSKY: Wait. Is that somebody else? We have another -- it`s a trend.

SCHACHER: I -- hey, I`m kind of like rethinking the way I want to go out.

PINSKY: I`m thinking, I want to go out in my chair, Sam, because (inaudible)

SCHACHER: Why? I wouldn`t mind people celebrating me when I pass away. OK.

CATHERWOOD: I`ll celebrate you.

SCHACHER: OK. All right, likewise, Mike.

PINSKY: See where it`s going, Mike? Do you see where this is going? See how bad it can get?

SCHACHER: All right. So, the reaction was pretty much split down in the middle. OK? To this non-traditional funeral one particular comment summed

it up with, Evan wrote, quote to each his own but that`s creepy and hell. And then, one woman shared a personal story, she wrote, quote, my dad loved

popcorn so my mom popped some popcorn and put it in with his ashes.

CATHERWOOD: Awesome.

PINSKY: Yeah. That is awesome. I`m all for the celebration and I`m all for this being about the living, which -- Erica, you were sort of zeroing in

on. But the dignity of the one who passes, I mean, I guess if somebody makes it really clear this is what I want, I want to be dressed bike a

pirate. I want you guys to put on a pirate themed party...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Erica, go ahead. I`m sorry.

AMERICA: Yeah. I have a feeling it`s more about what the family wants and a little bit of denial at the persons passing than necessarily what the

person themselves wanted. If they made it clear in their will or set to everybody, I want this party, I want to be propped up like I`m alive...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Here`s another one (inaudible). It`s breath taking.

SCHACHER: Your reaction is priceless here.

CATHERWOOD: It is completely different and it is a bit creepy. It`s a bit different. It`s a bit creepy, but you have to understand, obviously these

people, all of the people that are shown in these video clips are celebrating the life of the people that have passed. And you`re right.

PINSKY: I`m all for the celebration. I`m all, But to me...

CATHERWOOD: Funerals suck. Funerals always suck.

SCHACHER: OK. You don`t like the idea they`re propped up like weekend at Bernie`s style.

PINSKY: I don`t like this it`s so -- you know, I`m a biologist.

BARNETT: You have no words.

PINSKY: You know what I mean, and I don`t like the fact that it`s manufactured. That they`re all look waxed and it`s just sort of -- Erica,

you`re with me on this, right?

AMERICA: Yeah. No, absolutely. I have actually been to a really sad -- a young girl died. A bicycle accident that I went to (inaudible) school

actually and they did have a celebration of her life but it was following a traditional funeral. So, they had the first with the closed casket and then

they had a party afterward. So, making it a party where you can see the person, it`s almost like I said, it`s weird denial thing. You heard the

girl said -- the woman said, it`s like she`s not even dead. So, maybe they don`t -- I mean...

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Vanessa, go ahead.

BARNETT: There`s a whole reality show dedicated to extreme over the top funerals now. So, yes, it is a trend.

PINSKY: Oh great.

BARNETT: And people, if this is up to them and they wanted to do this -- this is how she lived. I don`t think that`s that upset that this is how

their mourning her death. I think it`s not hurting anyone.

PINSKY: Vanessa, did I said thank you. Mike, it`s coming into focus now. Reality television has brought us this.

CATHERWOOD: Well, if you get taxidermies, Sam, can I buy your body?

SCHACHER: Oh my God.

CATHERWOOD: I`m just saying.

PINSKY: My favorite part about this topic is that our camera men are laughing out loud here. You understand my reaction, don`t you? Thank you.

Thank you.

BARNETT: Dr. Drew is more real sad about this story than the hoarder.

SCHACHER: I know.

PINSKY: Hoarding is about -- I understand that. I`ve seen that. I understand that.

SCHACHER: It`s their wishes. If somebody wishes to go out this way, what are we there to judge them?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Yeah. Thanks, Mike.

PINSKY: ...have been practicing a dignified sort of -- it`s what established humans. We have a dignified...

SCHACHER: I know your weak spot.

PINSKY: And this is now -- we`ve taken this to a new place. Everybody, enjoy yourself. Have at it. But I`m just saying, I`m going to have my

reaction. Next up, we`ve got someone caught on tape with frustrations in her pants. That`s right. That`s what I`m saying. You have to stay with us

for me to explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say this is Nicole Reed. She ordered seven lobster tails, takes them from the clerk and walks out of view from the

camera. Police say she had time to put the seven packages in her pants. Watch here as she stops to adjust the seafood. You can actually see one

package clearly as she finds a better spot, bending down several times to make sure they fit just right. Next she heads to the cash registers but is

able to walk comfortably by without paying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Mike and Erica, we`re going to get to the most talked about, most tweeted story of the day. Before I talk about the

most tweeted story, I want to share a tweet from our own beloved, Vanessa. It refers to the last story. She tweets -- let`s put it this, so I can read

it. (Inaudible) There you are. All that being said, these things about the funeral story, please don`t prop me up for my funeral, thanks in advance,

#funeraltrend. Vanessa, I know you were defending it aggressively but your real feelings are sort of true now.

BARNETT: No. I`m just saying, for me it doesn`t work. Just for me. I think my family would be a little turned off, but hey, each their own, right, Dr.

Drew? We can`t shame this family for how they mourn.

PINSKY: Mike, dare I get your -- take your pulls on this one?

CATHERWOOD: You better prop my ass up. I want to be in a grape lead around my guns.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Somebody is saying we just read a tweet or somebody said, I wondered how long it was going to take Mike to put in a...

SCHACHER: A necrophilia joke.

PINSKY: A necrophilia joke.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: All right. Now, the most tweeted about story, when police arrested the 30-year-old woman you saw in that tape, she reportedly told them -- she

told them the reason she had shoved the lobsters into her pants, valued at about 80 dollars, is she planned to trade them for a Chinese buffet or

prescription medication.

SCHACHER: Oh my -- OK. I`m in no way condoning shoplifting but there are plenty of pricier and smaller and easier things to jack and put in your

pants than lobsters. I`m just saying.

CATHERWOOD: No.

SCHACHER: Yes. Lobsters?

CATHERWOOD: Hey. Hold on. I walk plenty of supermarkets to meet back in the day. And if you look at pound for pound, lobster is very dense for the

value of -- you know, an ounce of lobster is very expensive. So, I think she thought this through and was very wise. And I know what it`s like to

have frustrations in my pants, because I`ll tell you, I came back from second tour at Nam with a hell of a case of crabs.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Go to a jewellery store, not the grocery store. Just saying.

PINSKY: Erica -- I know, Erica is like oh my goodness.

AMERICA: I was saying there was crabs, right?

PINSKY: Yes it was. But this is actually a very serious situation, because this woman, let`s be fair, she`s a drug addict. She`s going to go get

medication.

AMERICA: And if you`re stealing food from a supermarket you obviously have your tail between your legs. In this case, she had seven. I`m sorry. I had

to.

(CROSSTALK)

CATHERWOOD: We`re drifting.

AMERICA: But seriously she needed her pills and she needed her chow mien and obviously this was a serious thing. You know, she was an addict and

there needs to be treatment and not just punishment. Hopefully she`s not going to be put behind bars with no treatment.

PINSKY: And, Mike -- go ahead, Vanessa, please.

BARNETT: I don`t know any drug dealer that takes lobster tail for pills. I don`t think she was in any real danger here of actually getting the pills

that she wanted.

PINSKY: Well, she -- listen, she`s not in her right head. Mike you`ve shared in this program that you have a history of addiction. How bad -- you

know, would you have gone to these lengths? How bad did it get for you?

CATHERWOOD: Oh, yeah, I never did steal stuff to fuel my addiction. But I would have. If I ever came to the point where I was completely tapped out

of money and people around me and my crew didn`t have drugs to offer me, I would have resorted to that, but I didn`t.

PINSKY: And, Mike, she planned to get -- she told the cops later that she planned to trade the lobster for (inaudible). I don`t know, she had to hook

up or something, but...

CATHERWOOD: Our prescription meds are actually currency in Florida now. I mean...

PINSKY: Yeah. You`re right. And is this Florida again? Where`s Mark Eiglarsh when I need him. But it`s Germany or Florida, always, Germany or

Florida. But the (inaudible) that the opiates, Mike, help me explain that how powerful the allure of opiates. It causes a broken motivation system. I

was telling -- I told Maria (inaudible) today, she was asking me about the, why people can`t just stop, and you know, if she had this kind of

addiction, she probably try to kill herself, and I told her, I said, you got to understand with opiates, it`s so powerful that sometimes the addicts

can`t kill themselves because they can`t imagine leaving the drug behind, they love it so much.

CATHERWOOD: Sure.

PINSKY: And for you, Mike, it`s sure, of course.

CATHERWOOD: Yeah. I mean, I know it sounds to someone who doesn`t suffer from the disease of addiction it sounds completely unreasonable to

romanticised your relationship with your drug of choice in that way but that truly is how it becomes and opiates based painkillers and opiates

based drugs in general, Drew, you`ll support me on the fact that they not only provide a tremendous amount of emotional and psychological addiction.

The physical hold that they take on you -- becomes almost indescribable.

PINSKY: And I think people understand the withdrawal is awful, but it`s more than that. It changes the entire motivational system and they love the

drug more than they love life itself. They love it more than anything. They love it more than their family. So, a little lobster tail trade is no big

deal. Erica, last comments.

AMERICA: I was going to say, because it`s so serious what are we going to prevent this and to educate like maybe teenagers while they`re in high

school about -- before you get to that point.

SCHACHER: I wonder if they are going to enforce treatment? Do we know that? She has been arrested...

(CROSSTALK)

CATHERWOOD: I saw that hashtag lobster pants. I just wanted to say I used to date a girl named lobster pants and you guys should stay away from her.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: We have such a massive problem, 80 percent of the opiates are prescription medication in the world are prescribed here in this country.

We`ve got to be aware of this. Opiates, painkillers cause severe addiction. Please be aware. Don`t use them long term unless it was a very good reason

to do so. One last word, please don`t forget to head over to our Facebook page, Dr. Drew HLN, please like us there. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: All right. I`m almost out of time but I kept my panel with us to respond to some of the tweets we`re getting tonight about the funeral issue

particularly. So, Sam, what have you got there?

SCHACHER: Yes. I have one from Fuzza, they write, many cultures have a tradition of preserving bodies of loved ones and living with their bodies.

PINSKY: Erica, do you know anything about that? I`m not sure what they`re talking about.

AMERICA: It`s not offhand. I mean, what it reminds me of is like being at the not -- the museum of natural history having a cocktail party around

your grandfather who`s roped off. It just freaks me out. I`m sorry.

PINSKY: I agree. Mike, any last thoughts?

CATHERWOOD: I checked with my attorney (inaudible). Richard Christy and associates, and you know, this is a perfectly viable way to celebrate

someone`s life when they pass and I think that we shouldn`t judge how they live.

PINSKY: Vanessa, we`ve got ten seconds that was a (inaudible) by the way.

BARNETT: I defended the funeral but I will draw the line at keeping them around the house acting like...

PINSKY: Got to guys. Forensic Files begins right now.

END