Return to Transcripts main page
CONNECT THE WORLD
Washington State Landslide; Chicago Train Derailment; Oscar Pistorius Trial; Ebola Outbreak in West Africa; Behind the Names: Passengers of MH370; Malaysian Prime Minister: MH370 Most Likely Went Down In Indian Ocean; G7 Holds Crimea Meeting in The Hague; Russian Foreign Minister: Missing G8 No Great Loss For Russia
Aired March 24, 2014 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MAX FOSTER, HOST: Tonight, grief and anger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Than simply just give us this result. How can people bear this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Relatives of those on board the flight MH370 react to the news that their loved ones are gone as evidence suggests the flight ended in the southern Indian Ocean. But without physical proof, many are in disbelief. This hour, we'll speak to a psychologist about their need for closure.
Also ahead -- and then there were seven. Obama arrives in Europe urging world leaders to get tough with Russia.
Plus, why Oscar Pistorius's girlfriend told him he scared her.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN London, this is Connect the World.
FOSTER: A few weeks after a Malaysia Airlines plane disappeared with 239 people on board officials announced today that all lives are lost. Malaysia's prime minister says new analysis of satellite data showed that the plane's last location in the remove southern Indian Ocean far from any possible landing site.
(BEGIN VIDEO LCIP)
NAJIB RAZAK, MALAYSIAN PRIME MINISTER: That MH370 flew along the southern corridor and that its last position was in the middle of the Indian Ocean west of Perth. This is a remote location, far from any possible landing sites. It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that according to this new data, flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, relatives of those missing received this text message from the airline before being briefed, "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. We must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the southern Indian Ocean."
More on the new data that led to today's dramatic announcement. I'm joined by CNN's Will Ripley. He's live in Kuala Lumpur this evening.
But first we go to Beijing where CNN's David McKenzie has more on the reaction of family members of those who were on board the plane.
David, we saw some images there earlier on. How painful was it that the families to hear this announcement?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was terribly painful, obviously, Max. With all these days of waiting, more than two weeks, trying to figure out if there's any way, any miracles some were calling it, that their loved ones might have survived when this MH370 went missing, all of those hopes were dashed with that message and with this press conference from the prime minister. And as you saw, very emotional, raw emotional scenes in Beijing of people coming out of that press conference showing that they are just at their wits end.
Take a listen to what one woman said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): They made this announcement today. Is it really true? What's their proof? First of all, they have not been able to confirm any suspected floating objects. They simply made this announcement today, telling us that no one survived, everyone sank into the ocean. What's your proof? It's been 17 days. They simply just give us this result. How can people bear this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCKENZIE: Well, Max, certainly angry response there. And a lot of people saying the same thing, that they want physical proof that this plane went down. One group of passengers' families, their representatives saying that really the Malaysian Airlines military and government are all to blame, calling them murderers. Very strong language, of course. And you can understand the raw anger that is here, but also people just wanting to lash out at anyone they can.
There were people, several of them, taken out of their press conference who couldn't even walk, stand or even move about. They were put on stretchers and taken out of the scene here to nearby hospitals. So certainly very overwhelming emotions as you can imagine.
When people got the news, those hopes dashed that their loved ones went down with that plane -- Max.
FOSTER: David, thank you very much.
Well, what is the proof that the authorities are using to say that the flight is gone?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Max, there is an investigation that's happening right now. More than 50 people have been interviewed. We just got confirmation from Malaysian police. They are talking, trying to really track down every angle here, because there were two joint investigations going on. There's the search and rescue operation happening in the southern Indian Ocean. And there's also the criminal investigation happening here in Malaysia.
As part of that investigation, they've run background checks on everybody that they can possibly think of who might have been connected to this plane. And so far, we are told that things really are coming up pretty clear. What the police in Malaysia are telling us, this investigation could take more than a year.
Meanwhile, the search and rescue effort continues. In Perth, Australia more resources are being moved down there as we speak. They're taking advantage of every maximum hour of daylight. As we get a pretty good idea now of the area that they're zeroing in on.
So we have the P3 Orion, the P8 Poseidon taking off, scouring the ocean. We've had now visual confirmation of debris that has been physically spotted not just by satellite, but actually from these planes. So the challenge now is getting ships in there, locating this debris, taking a look at it and seeing if they can confirm where it came from.
FOSTER: Will, David, thank you both very much.
Well, after more than two weeks of waiting and wondering, it's been a terrible day, of course, for the family members of those who were on board flight MH370.
To gain some insight into their ordeal I'm joined now by Dr. James Thompson who is a psychologist. And it's just the not knowing, isn't it?
DR. JAMES THOMPSON, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think to mourn without a body is almost impossible. But there's two different levels of discourse here. Virtually everyone in the world realizes that after eight hours that plane had come down and that was it. You had to find why and where, but that was it.
However, because there are the extraordinary circumstances of this event, which is unprecedented, and because of the way the government handled it, which was cautiously in a lawerly like way, not saying anything until they've had proof, these people which we say locked in the hotel have not been given the sorts of attention they should have and essentially that's to say, look, we've heard a rumor, here's the rumor. You're the first to hear it. You hear it from us, it's just a rumor, it's being investigated.
It's a question of now handling people in a new information age when everyone is buzzing around with speculations, with partial things which turn out to be true...
FOSTER: This is not the information from the source that they want, they're going to go out and find it elsewhere.
THOMPSON: They're going to find it anyway. So you have establish your credentials like any news organization has to. You have to be quick, you've got to be accurate.
FOSTER: But you've also got this sense of hope that all those families had, because they weren't being told conclusively, you know, you and I watching the evidence...
THOMPSON: If I had a relative on that plane, I think they're in Kazakhstan. OK, someone has taken this plane, but they're in some airport and within the next day we'll see them and there will be people with guns, but, you know, it's going to be all right.
So it is the long drawn out nature of the uncertainty and the final point is the lady there screaming has got it right, she hasn't been even handed one paper napkin which says Malaysian Airlines. She's got it right.
FOSTER: We've also heard from Sara Bajc, she is the partner of Philip Wood, one of the passengers on board the flight 370. She's been outspoken over the last two weeks repeatedly voicing that her hope that he was still alive. She realized the following statement -- or she released the following statement once she realized the announcements today, "the announcement is on data only, no confirmed wreckage so no real closure. I need closure to be certain but cannot keep on with public efforts against all odds. I still feel his presence, so perhaps it was his soul all along."
What gives people closure?
THOMPSON: Let's say both of us were taken away from the studio and not shown again. I would very much hope that people kept up hope that we were somewhere, that we'd been taken away. And so this thing of my feeling their soul, people have dreams. And in those dreams they hear their child talking to them. And from that, they judge in the absence of anything else, whether that person is saying good-bye, I'm dead or whether someone is saying keep listening.
FOSTER: But what can the authorities give the families?
THOMPSON: What the authorities -- what the authorities can do is get very close to their first (inaudible) and say the likelihood is everyone is dead.
FOSTER: It's almost too late, though, isn't it. Because the statement from the Chinese families was pretty extraordinary accusing the authorities, the airline, the government, everyone of being murderers. Perhaps something we can understand their grief and their anger, but there's an irrational view as well.
THOMPSON: Grief is shock and then it turns to anger. And that anger sometimes gets sprayed around anyone. It may be the last person who comes up to give an item of help and does it wrong and says your dead relative and then gets an earful, because of that. And so you cannot just by management get around human emotions, but you should never have someone who is yelling at a press conference and not have the minister say I will go, I will get off my platform I'll go and talk to them, because this is now -- it's the emblem for our modern age, if I went down, if you went down in a plane would anyone care? Show us you care. And that's something which the Malaysian authorities with a very difficult situation have had some difficulty understanding.
FOSTER: Dr. James Thompson, thank you very much indeed.
After today's news on the fate of MH370, the question is what happens next in the search. International teams are still combing the remote area of Australia where the plane is thought to have crashed. We'll have the very latest on the search later this hour on Connect the World.
Still to come tonight, U.S. President Barack Obama met world leaders in The Hague today. Top of the agenda, the Crimea crisis.
And the crackdown continues as a Cairo court sentences 529 pro-Morsy supporters to death. The protests continue. We'll have the latest from Egypt for you.
Plus, private messages between Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp read out in court today. We'll tell you what the prosecution was trying to show.
FOSTER: You are watching CNN. This is Connect the World with me, Max Foster. Welcome back to you.
The crisis in Crimea easily overshadowed a global summit at The Hague on Monday originally meant to focus on nuclear security. A short while ago, leaders of the group of seven industrialized countries held an improvised meeting hosted by U.S. President Barack Obama. They have now decided to suspend their participation in the G8. Holding their own meeting in Brussels in June instead of attending a summit in Russia.
But Russia's foreign minister, seen here meeting with his Ukrainian counterpart, for a rare face to face meeting says no meeting as part of the G8 is not a tragedy, or rather them not being in that meeting.
And there was little change in the ground on Crimea either itself as Russian forces seized another Ukrainian military base prompting Ukraine's interim president to order his forces to withdraw from the peninsula altogether.
Now we are covering the latest developments on this story from all angles. We've seen international correspondent Nic Robertson at the summit in The Hague. Fred Pleitgen monitoring events in Moscow and Karl Penhaul is there with the latest for us in Kiev.
Nic, let's start with you, one notable absence of course where you are the Russian President Vladimir Putin sent his foreign minister there instead.
What's technically has happened here? Is the -- have they been kicked out of the G8?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, they've chosen a kind of an interesting language on it. All the G7 leaders have said well they're not going to go to Sochi, which was where the G8 was going to be held, which kind of means that President Putin an the Russians are in a club of one. It's not that they've been thrown out, they've just sort of been -- the others have retreated and they're left alone. It's a message very much of political isolation adding to their economic sanctions that have been put in place. It is what President Obama wanted to get out of the G7. He wanted a united position so that Russia could see that they were being politically interantionally isolated.
And it does seem very much aimed at President Putin as well, aimed at his pride here. People say that he values his standing on the international stage. And this is really a very clear message to him that he's not in a position that he was. What the G7 is saying you can be back in the G8 if you will. We will talk to you again if you, Russia, recognize the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine and that you being talks with the government of Ukraine and engage in diplomatic dialogue.
G7 now say that they will reassess their position as a group when they get together in June in Brussels.
It is a slap in the face for President Putin, for Russia, and it is what President Obama was hoping to achieve here, unanimity from the G7 -- Max.
FOSTER: OK, well, Fred is in Moscow. Fred, they're just laughing it off, though, aren't they. That's the reality.
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I wouldn't say they're laughing it off, Max, but they're pretty close to laughing it off.
There was a statement that was put forward by Sergei Lavrov, the foreign minister who was also in Hague, the foreign minister of the Russian Federation, where he said that basically he felt that the G8 wasn't really something that had a membership anyway, so therefore it was impossible to kick Russia out of the G8.
They also said that Russia really isn't very bothered very much by being excluded from the G8 and by the G7 basically meeting on its own. He said that it was a club that really had a lot of other organizations that do similar things. He was referring to the G7 and other sort of institutions where the world's problems are discussed. He was referencing the things going on in Syria, also the Ukraine crisis of course as well. And he said let's revisit all this in a year or a year-and-a-half from now and then we'll see whether the Russian Federation is better or worse off than it was before.
One of the things, of course, that Nic just said which is absolutely correct, of course Vladimir Putin values his standing in the international arena, but on the other hand the Russians for a very long time have felt sort of sidelined in the G8, because they simply don't have the economic muscle that all the other nations in the G8, or what is now the G7, have. So the Russians at least on the face of it say that they're not too bothered by it.
One of the other interesting things, Max, by the way that happened on the sidelines of this summit today was that Sergei Lavrov the Russian foreign minister met with his Ukrainian counterpart for the first time to discuss all of these issues. It was a meeting we didn't really get much details about all of this.
Why don't we listen in to what Sergei Lavrov a little bit of what he had to say today during this conference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEI LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Thus if our western partners believe that this organizational format has outlived its usefulness so be it. At least we are not attached to this format and we don't see a great misfortune if it will not gather. Maybe for a year or two it will be an experiment for us to see how we live without it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: There we have Sergei Lavrov talking about the Russians and their feelings towards getting excluded from the G8, or what is now again the G7 clearly putting a very brave face on it not showing very much concern, Max.
FOSTER: Fred, thank you very much indeed.
We have had a comment as well coming out from the G7 as we're now calling. It's from the British Foreign Secretary William Hague and he says the G7 members have discussed ways to reduce European dependence on Russian energy, because this is the big thing that Russia has in terms of control over Europe. So they've decided to do that. And that's in response to what's happening in Crimea.
Karl Penhaul is in Kiev. Whilst this goes on, there's still movement on the ground. Crimea is becoming more independent, isn't it, or less dependent on Ukraine. You had this crucial meeting between Russia and Ukraine as well today, which has really fallen to the bottom of the headlines.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely. And really what the Ukrainian government here is saying is that really there aren't that many diplomatic channels still open with the Russians. And in fact in a gesture that really now is symbolic today the acting president in Ukraine ordered the retreat, the withdrawal of all remaining Ukrainian troops in Crimea.
There is still a question, though, how many of those 13,000 Ukrainian troops will actually come back to Ukraine's interior, because of course as we know according to the Ukrainian defense minister about half those forces have actually changed sides, they've defected to the Russians. We also know that some of them have simply hung up their uniforms and go home. And so we do expect a much smaller number to be coming back to the Ukrainian mainland.
That came the decision to withdrawal formally from Crimea came after Russians in a very dramatic takeover before dawn this morning dropped into one of the last remaining Ukrainian marine bases in Crimea and took that over. And also a night fell this evening, one of Ukraine's remaining naval vessels was also stormed by Russian troops as well.
But what the Ukrainian government is also increasingly focusing on is the number of Russian troops who are massed just across the other side of Ukraine's eastern border. The national security and defense council of Ukraine this afternoon said that it estimated now more than 100,000 Russian troops are just on the other side of the border and they could roll into Ukraine at any time.
Added to that, both NATO and U.S. officials are saying that that force is now so big and so close to the border, if it does decide to roll into Ukraine, there would be very little or now prior warning, Max.
FOSTER: Karl in Kiev, Fred in Moscow, and Nic at The Hague, thank you all very much indeed for joining us.
You can follow all the latest developments on this story online. It includes a look at how sanctions are targeting President Vladimir Putin's inner circle and the objection some EU member states raised.
All that and more on CNN.com/international.
Live from London, this is Connect the World. Coming up, waiting families in Malaysia were hit with devastating news today. And the search isn't over yet. We'll speak to two experts about what happens next.
And 529 protesters have been sentenced to death for the murder of a police officer and attacks on people (inaudible). It's being called a sharp escalation in Egypt's crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood.
FOSTER: Egyptian state media is reporting that 529 members of the Muslim Brotherhood have been sentenced to death. All the charges relate to violent riots in August that saw a police officer killed.
The sentences are part of a crackdown on the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood that started after the removal of President Mohammed Morsy. Egypt's government considers the group a terrorist organization and thousands of its members have been arrested.
Defense lawyers call it the largest mass death sentence in Egypt's history.
CNN's Ian Lee is in Egypt and has been following the trial for us. He sent us this report.
IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The sentence of 529 people to death is unprecedented in Egypt's history. Never has there been such a large capital punishment case. They're convicted of the murder of a police officer and the attempted murder of two other policers during an attack on a police station in Minia (ph) just south of Cairo.
Now hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood supporters have died and thousands have been arrested since last July, that's when a military coup was triggered by massive street demonstrations that ousted then president Mohammed Morsy. Nobody has yet been held accountable for those deaths.
Now while 529 people were sentenced to death, 398 were tried in absentia. We reached out to two of those people convicted. They said they weren't anywhere near the police station when the attack occurred. We also talked to one of the lawyers for the case. He said that he wasn't allowed inside the courtroom to defend his client or to even look at the evidence.
Now the government has defended the trial, saying that the sentence, it was issued by an independent court after careful study of the case.
Now while 529 people are sentenced to death, this is a -- Egypt has a long legal process with many avenues of appeal. It's unlikely that 529 people will actually be executed once the sentences are carried out.
There was another trial today we were watching, this is the trial of the al Jazeera journalists, three journalists -- Mohammed Fahmy, Peter Greste and Bahar Mohamed were on trial -- were in session today for the third time. The prosecution brought forth their witnesses to give details of what happened.
We also saw Mohammed Fahmy appeal to the court saying that he wants better medical treatment for his shoulder that was injured before he was arrested last December. He says he wants -- he says that the prison medical system just cannot offer what he needs and he wants to go to a private medical facility that can offer better services. He also asked for him and his colleagues to be released on bail.
Now neither request seemed to be approved as the judge sent them back to prison. And the trial has been postponed to March 31.
Ian Lee, CNN, Cairo.
FOSTER: And Ian had the chance to meet one of the jailed journalists Mohammed Fahmy in Cairo over the weekend. To learn how Mohammed is coping behind bars, you can read Ian's article on CNN's website. Follow the links on our homepage at CNN.com/international.
The latest world news headlines just ahead for you. Plus, despite today's announcement the search continues. We'll be live in Australia to ask what happens next for MH370.
The Pistorius trial enters its fourth week today. Text messages provided an insight into the relationship between Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp. We'll fill you in on the latest.
59 dead in Guinea amid fears that a virus is spreading, but how can they stop it? That and more after this short break.
FOSTER: This is CONNECT THE WORLD, the top stories this hour. Hopes are dashed as Malaysia's prime minister says Flight 370 went down in the southern Indian Ocean. Malaysian Airlines told family members of those who were onboard that all lives were lost. The announcements were based on satellite data.
Leaders of the Group of 7 industrialized countries say they will hold their own summit in Brussels in June instead of attending the G8 meeting in Russia. They're gathered on the sideline of a nuclear security summit in the Hague, but Russia's foreign minister says being left out of the G8 meeting isn't a great tragedy.
An Egyptian court has sentenced to death 529 supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood. The charges relate to violent riots in Egypt last August, which led to the death of a police officer. The government has been cracking down on the Brotherhood since President Morsy was ousted.
Another neighbor of Oscar Pistorius took the stand in the fourth week of his murder trial. She was challenged by the defense as to what she saw and heard the night of Reeva Steenkamp's death. A cell phone expert also took the stand, revealing messages from her stating she was scared of Pistorius sometimes.
Hope has fade for the passengers of a missing Malaysia Airlines flight. Family members expressed anguish after the airline announced today that all 239 lives onboard were lost. New satellite data showed the plane's last location to be over the remote southern Indian Ocean. The area is far from any possible landing sites.
International search teams will continue to scour the area where debris was spotted again today. So far, no wreckage tied to the plane has actually been found.
For more, let's cross to CNN's Kyung Lah. She's in Perth, Australia this hour. And the search flights have been taking off from bases nearby. So, Kyung, how has today's dramatic news really affected the search plan going forward? I guess it's more of the same, trying to find some scraps of evidence.
KYUNG LAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are going to be more planes in the air, at least that's the expectation. We have not been told yet, Max, about what exactly, how many planes, the timing. That's really been sort of held off until the first planes are in the air. In about 90 minutes, if all the previous days are any indication, the first search planes will take to the air.
We have noticed that there has been shift on the ground. Last night, when the last plane came in, we were normally given access to the pilot. The pilot comes out and speaks to the press about what the conditions were like, what they found, what they did not find.
And we didn't get that access this time. We are still being allowed to take pictures, but certainly, there's a bit of a clamping down here from the Australian authorities, and maybe so that all the messages that come out of here are the same.
So, a bit of a change, but as far as the search, it is going to be a tougher day today. The weather in this region -- now remember, it is a four-hour flight from this air base to that region -- it is tougher today. The weather expected to not cooperate with the search. But the planes, Max, are expected to take to the air still. Max?
FOSTER: There's also aircraft from multiple countries involved here. How's it all being coordinated?
LAH: It's all being coordinated through the Australian military. They're really the lead agency. They're all in communication. We understand that there are some Australians traveling with the various foreign flights that are being coordinated here through the ground just for translation, for -- so that everyone's all on the same page.
It has been interesting to see the coordination of all these countries, not just in the air, but also on the ground. China's sending additional reinforcements on the sea because after those planes spot the debris -- and remember, there were two debris spottings by the Australians and the Chinese yesterday, which have not yet been confirmed -- they have to be picked up out of the sea on boats.
So, those ships -- there are more of them coming, hoping to sort of flood the zone and try to cover as much of this area as possible, Max.
FOSTER: A very difficult area of sea to cover as well. As you say, it's very remote, but also, as I understand it, there are some strong currents there. How do they factor in the drift of all of this material, if it is, indeed, there?
LAH: What they do -- and yesterday is a good indicator for how they handle this -- when debris is spotted, beacons are dropped from these particular planes so you can mark where the debris is found. But that's not the solution, either, because what happens is that the currents shift.
One of the people who -- one of the squadron leaders of the P-8 told me that it's like a giant washing machine out there. That's what the water looks like from the air, a giant washing machine. The currents are constantly shifting. There's no land to break up the water, so it is extremely tough to spot anything.
But those beacons certainly help. They are hoping that the beacons don't get separated from the debris, but as you can imagine, Max, when you talk about this type of current, there are no guarantees.
FOSTER: Kyung, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us from Australia.
Well, today's announcement arose after new unprecedented data analysis by a British satellite company and accident investigators as well from the UK. Earlier, CNN spoke to Chris McLaughlin. He's satellite company Inmarsat's senior vice president. He said the plane going down in the Indian Ocean is the most likely outcome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS MCLAUGHLIN, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, INMARSAT: We have a lot of experience. We feel the sadness of the families, and we do feel for them at this point. But if you look at the plots that we have, using recent adjusted techniques, we can say that the most likely route is the south and the most likely ending is in roughly the area where they're looking now.
But of course, nothing is final. We're not Earth observation satellites. We're data satellites. So, it will require a lot of different skills and a lot of different people, not least the naked eye, to finally confirm what happened to 370.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: More on today's new data and where the search goes from here. I'm joined by David Stupples from London City University. He's an engineer, an expert at aviation radar systems. Thank you very much for joining us.
So, Inmarsat telling us that the most likely scenario is the plane came down in that area of sea. That doesn't sound conclusive, though.
DAVID STUPPLES, PROFESSOR, ELECTRICAL AND ELECTRONIC ENGINEERING, LONDON CITY UNIVERSITY: Well, it's reasonably conclusive. Initially, what happened is that they identified two corridors. And the way they would do this is the satellite is sitting up there, 22,500 kilometers above the Earth, right above about the midpoint in the Indian Ocean.
A signal traveling up and down it would take about 1.2 of a second to do that. As you move out, further away from that center point, the timing gets greater. So therefore, they -- that's why they identified because of the timing that it was on two tracks.
The radar that -- in Thailand and in Burma, et cetera, would have identified a target or an aircraft moving up there without any identification. It would have been challenged. So they said it ah, it definitely went south.
Now what they've done is something really quite clever. They've measured the Doppler effect of the signal. Let me explain. If a racing car was coming towards you and then going away, you hear a difference in sound as it's moving away. That sound reduction or sound going down in frequency is the Doppler effect.
So, what they've done is they've taken the signal from the satellite and measured its Doppler effect. By that, they've said, ah, it's moving south.
FOSTER: And would that be definite? They can definitely say it went south --
FOSTER: -- as opposed to north.
STUPPLES: Yes, absolutely definite. And also, because it received seven of those, because the aircraft would have registered with the satellite, got a handshake with the satellite once an hour, it meant that it's seven hours.
So, what would then happen, they say, it's about the fuel limit of the aircraft, so it's seven hours down. It flew south, and because of this Doppler effect, they know that it was moving south at a certain speed. So, it is reasonably good evidence.
FOSTER: What about the direction of it going south? How can they be sure it's gone to that particular track that they're talking about?
STUPPLES: Well, the Doppler effect that they have measured is that accurate. And what they did, which is really -- this is really quite clever, they then tested it on a large number of aircraft that were flying around, and it correlated.
And then they sent the whole set of results to the air accident investigators, and they confirmed that this is a good approach. It's really very clever, because a normal organization would take three to four months to do that data analysis. They did it in four days.
FOSTER: They had this huge effort, this one sort of positive out of this whole experience, isn't it? It's gone on for a long amount of time, lots of countries involved, and they're managing to get a lot of data.
FOSTER: So, for your industry, it's been a fascinating experience I'm sure, and no doubt you're wondering why these planes aren't tracked the whole time.
STUPPLES: Well, from 2015 they will be, because there's a system coming out which will track them all the time.
FOSTER: OK. And in terms of the -- how conclusive we can say the evidence is, we -- if we've got a map, Inmarsat is saying it's pretty much -- we're pretty certain that it went down in this area of sea.
FOSTER: Can you give us any sense of percentage of about how accurate that would be?
STUPPLES: I would imagine that the Inmarsat estimate would be a larger area than the one that's being searched at the moment. I think Inmarsat have confirmed that it's down there, and then what they will then do is mix this with low orbit satellite information coming from optics and radar and confirming the position that way.
FOSTER: And are you pretty confident, then, that if something similar happens again, that this system will work better? Because the families have criticized the system, because it's been so incredibly slow. You're one of the few people that fully understands how complicated it is.
STUPPLES: I think it is -- I think it's been groundbreaking in as much that Inmarsat have done something that is really quite groundbreaking.
FOSTER: Could it have been done sooner?
STUPPLES: I don't think so. I think that, from Inmarsat's point of view, it's quite remarkable that they've done it in this time.
FOSTER: OK, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us, David Stupples from City University.
Today's new information about the path of MH370 was gathered together by satellite data, of course, using something called the Doppler effect, which you just heard about it. It allowed experts to tell whether the plane was traveling towards or away from a particular satellite. And to explain a bit more, CNN's Ivan Cabrera joins us now from the International Weather Center. Hi, Ivan.
IVAN CABRERA, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Max, good to see you. And it's not a word, really, that we're too unfamiliar with. Certainly when we talk about the weather radar, we talk about the Doppler effect. This is the way we can tell whether a storm is coming towards or away from an area here.
But what's happened here is instead of using weather radar from the ground up, what we're doing is, this is that geosynchronous satellite, the Inmarsat satellite, here, that was able to track the location or certainly whether this system, whether the plane, in fact, was moving away or towards the satellite.
Here's the satellite in the center here. So, the rings you see here, depending on the position of the aircraft, the frequency is going to come back either a longer wave frequency or a shorter wave frequency, and in that way, we can tell -- there are the actual pings. This is when the airplane was essentially pinging that satellite.
And we were able -- or they certainly were able to tell whether it was further away or closer. And there you see, one and two. This sort of represents an hour away. And in an hour away, it was further away, so they were able to determine that position there.
And then here, at the bottom, what you see, this was the last known ping from the aircraft. Which is why this is exactly where they are searching. That is where the search area is, and that is how we were able -- or how they were able to tell where this thing was.
Farther away from the satellite there, and then, closer, and there we are, narrowing the search down with this. So, one particular satellite, which had to be right on top of this hemisphere here. Otherwise, it wouldn't have worked out that way.
So here is the search area now. We focus in on what we've been talking about over the last several days and a couple of weeks at this point now. These are the current ocean currents here across the Indian Ocean.
Do you see these circles here that look like kind of little hurricanes? Well, those eddies there, and if any debris gets caught in any of these eddies, they will just continue to spin and spin around. Those are the ocean currents, there's your search area.
Then, we have to contend with weather systems that roll through, and they roll through frequently across this part of the world. And the last couple of days, you can see, this is our satellite perspective here.
This looks at the clouds over the planet here. Very clear air over the box. Unfortunately, what we have coming up is a frontal boundary that's going to be bringing in thick clouds, heavy rainfall at times, and also we're going to be talking about some significant wave heights.
We don't have to worry about this here. That is a tropical cyclone. That's not going to get anywhere near our search area, here, so that is important to note. But this will approach the area -- in fact, it's doing so as we speak -- and it is going to be kicking up wave heights upwards of two to four meters.
That's going to be a problem in and of itself, and then, remember, this is very -- the search, for now, until they find this wreckage, is very dependent on visual cues. They'd have to be able to see outside the aircraft. And when you're talking about thick clouds and rain moving in, that is certainly not going to be helpful.
Then you talk about the winds. That's also going to be churning up the seas in the next couple of days, two to four meter waves. So, conditions that had been good, or relatively good in this part of the world, are now going to take a dive for the worst here. So, it is not going to be as good.
And then, of course, there's this search area here, but there's, Max, the window that they have. It has to occur during daylight until they find the search, and then we get into the sonars and underwater search, which of course is what we're going to be looking at for the main wreckage.
At that point, they will need sophisticated computer model forecasts to say, OK, we found some debris floating here. How did that get here? Where did that originate from? And then we can trace back the steps and hopefully underneath is where we can find the main wreckage. Max?
FOSTER: Ivan, thank you. A real sense of the scale of what's ahead.
Live from London, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD. Coming up, new details emerge about Oscar Pistorius's troubled relationship with Reeva Steenkamp. We've got the latest from Pretoria.
FOSTER: Rescue workers in Washington State are desperately trying to find survivors of a massive landslide. Officials have pulled eight bodies from the scene so far. Far more people are reported missing than was initially thought. George Howell is following developments for us. He joins us from Arlington, Washington, with the very latest. These latest figures are absolutely shocking.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Max, the latest that we know here, according to officials, they're looking at 108 reports of people who are either considered missing or unaccounted for.
It's important, though, that we explain that number, because we're not talking specifically about names here. We're talking about various things. For instance, a family who might have created a website for their loved one, or a family or a person who might have put out a report on social media, like Twitter or Facebook.
They're looking into those different reports, even vague reports. For instance, a person saying hey, Neil, I haven't seen him at his home. That could be a report --
FOSTER: OK, we've lost George, there. But as you can see, that most shocking scenes there of that landslide. And initially just a few deaths, but now all those missing numbers as well. We'll bring you the latest as it comes through to us.
A federal investigator in Chicago, meanwhile, says he's never seen anything like the train derailment at O'Hare International Airport, these amazing images. The eight-car train didn't stop at the end of the line.
It appeared to have climbed the escalator next to the passenger platform. Thirty-two people were hurt, but none seriously. Transportation safety experts will examine video from the station's cameras to try to figure out what happened.
We can now go back to George. And George, pick up on what you were saying about he sort of assessments here.
HOWELL: And my apology. Having trouble hearing you. But certainly, I believe you're asking me to pick up on the information. We know that it's 108 reports that they're looking into. They hope to narrow that number down.
Also, we learned, Max, here in the last hour or so that they're pulling back on the ground search only because the land there is too unstable. We're talking about what you call glacial till here in this part of the United States. It's very unstable sediment, and when you had rain come in, it makes it prone to landslides, as we've seen here in this case, Max.
We know the bad news here for these search and rescue operations. We know that there is rain in the forecast in the next several days, so that certainly would make the mess even muddier as they continue to search for people.
FOSTER: George Howell, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us from Arlington.
Meanwhile, South Africa prosecutors in the murder trial of South African athlete Oscar Pistorius are expected to wrap up their case in the coming days. And on Monday, they called upon one of their last witnesses who provided the court with a rare look into Pistorius's relationship with Reeva Steenkamp. Robyn Curnow reports from Pretoria.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pictures that show a young couple in love. However, Reeva Steenkamp's own words appear to tell a different story.
FRANCOIS MOLLER, POLICE CELL PHONE EXPERT: "I'm scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me."
CURNOW: A police cell phone expert read several private messages between the former model and Oscar Pistorius as her mother, June Steenkamp, listened.
On Monday, one of the prosecution's last witnesses was one of the most damning for the defense, a police investigator who downloaded messages from Steenkamp's iPhone.
MOLLER: "I fought the effect by outsiders for dating you and the effect by you, the one person I deserved protection from."
CURNOW: The couple arguing on WhatsApp just weeks before the Olympian shot and killed her. Pistorius has said all along that it was a tragic accident, mistaking Steenkamp for an intruder.
MOLLER: The messages or texts that I extracted between the accused and the deceased was 1,709 chat messages.
GERRIE NEL, PROSECUTOR: Let us start with WhatsApp messages on the 19th of January 2013.
CURNOW: Message after message revealing Steenkamp's frustration in her new relationship. Several accused the track star of being jealous and possessive.
MOLLER: "You have picked on me incessantly since you got back from CP, and I understand that you are sick, but it's nasty."
CURNOW: Pistorius responding --
MOLLER: "I'm sorry for the things I say without thinking."
CURNOW (on camera): Now, it's important to note that the police cell phone expert said that 90 percent of the messages were normal, loving conversations. He also said, though, that hundreds of pages of these messages are relevant to this trial. And he takes to the stand again tomorrow, so expect to hear far more private conversations between Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp.
Robyn Curnow, CNN, Pretoria, South Africa.
FOSTER: UNICEF says at least 59 people have died after an outbreak of Ebola in the West African country of Guinea. Symptoms of the virus -- diarrhea, vomiting, and fever -- were first observed last month, and the effected areas are in the south of the country, prompting concerns it could spread to Liberia and then Sierra Leone. Health officials have put restrictions on funerals in an attempt to contain the disease.
FOSTER (voice-over): Ebola, seen here under the microscope. It is one of the most highly-contagious and deadly viruses known to man. The name alone elicits fear and brings to mind images of doctors in hazmat suits. Now, people in Guinea are battling the West African country's first-ever outbreak of the disease.
DAMANTANG CAMARA, GUINEA GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN (through translator): We immediately sent samples to two laboratories specializing in tropical disease. The Health Ministry waited for the laboratory to determine the nature of the virus involved, and then we got confirmation: it was Ebola.
FOSTER: The virus has killed dozens of people in the southern region of the country, and there are fears Ebola may now spread to the capital of Conakry.
CE MAOMY, PHYSICIAN (through translator): Listening to the news and to see the effects of what is happening in the forest, it's true that a mysterious fever is striking people. It's scaring us. I'm scared. I'm scared, because it affects me.
FOSTER: Government officials say samples from several suspected cases in the capital have tested negative for the virus. But Doctors Without Borders is proactively flying in tons of medical aid and equipment to fight the epidemic.
GEMMA DOMINGUEZ, MEDICINS SANS FRONTIERES (through translator): In Conakry, there's an alarming situation and a little panic. In other places, they're a bit more used to it, where it's endemic. That's not easy, either, because people are afraid of this epidemic because it's very deadly. But at least they're a bit used to it.
FOSTER: There have been sporadic incidents of Ebola in other African countries in recent years. But with a fatality rate of up to 90 percent and no known cure, there's concern that in Guinea, a poor country with a weak medical infrastructure, a widespread Ebola outbreak could be devastating.
FOSTER: Coming up after this short break, hope appears lost. We learn more about the people onboard Malaysia's Flight 370 from the family and friends who waited so long for different news.
FOSTER: Some relatives of Malaysia Flight 370 heard the tragic news in person. Others were called. Some were sent a text message. CNN has spoken to a number of family members in the last two weeks when they held out hope that those onboard would still be safe. Atika Shubert reports on the faces behind the names onboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ju Kun. Zaharie bin Ahmad Shah. Mohamadkhairularmri Selamat. Muktesh Mukherjee and Xiaomo Bai. Zamani Razahan Muhammad and Norliakmar Hamid. Hadrien Wattrelos and Yan Xiao. Liu Rusheng and Bao Yuanhua. Pouria Nourmohammadi.
These are just a fraction of the names of the 239 passengers and crew onboard from 14 nations.
SHUBERT: For hundreds of family and friends, it's been an agonizing wait. Wife and mother Chandrika Sharma of India is the executive secretary of the International Collective in Support of Fish Workers. She was on her way to a conference in Mongolia.
Her husband wrote a note to friends and family thanking them for their support. It says, "I remain focused on what we have at hand by way of information and stay with the knowledge that Chandrika is strong and courageous. Her goodness must count for something somewhere."
Phil Wood, a 51-year-old IBM executive, was one of three Americans onboard.
SARAH BAJC, PARTNER OF PHILIP WOOD: My bag is packed and ready to go. It has been since Saturday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready to go where?
BAJC: Wherever he is.
SHUBERT: His partner, Sarah Bajc, is on a desperate search to find the man she calls her soulmate.
Mira Elizabeth Nari, daughter of chief steward Andrew Nari from Malaysia, has taken to Twitter to post a series of heart-wrenching messages. "Daddy, Liverpool is winning the game. Come home so you can watch the game. You never miss it. This would be your first time."
New Zealander Paul Weeks left his wedding ring and watch at home when he took a mining job in Mongolia. He asked his wife, Danica, to pass them on to his two sons should anything happen. His brother describes him as his best friend.
PETER WEEKS, BROTHER OF PAUL WEEKS: People love Paul, and in general, he's just a wonderful man, and we're all hoping that he comes back.
SHUBERT: Zaharie Ahmad Shah was the airline captain piloting the plane. Despite being under scrutiny in the investigation, may have stepped forward to vouch for his credibility.
PETER CHONG, FRIEND OF ZAHARIE AHMAD SHAH: If something had happened to this flight, I would think -- in fact, I would believe that he would have made sure of the safety and welfare of everyone else before he even thinks about himself. That's the kind of person that he is.
SHUBERT: From artists to engineers, grandparents to a toddler, the passengers of Flight 370 are more than just numbers.
Atika Shubert, CNN, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
FOSTER: And their search continues. I'm Max Foster, that was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thank you for watching.