Return to Transcripts main page


Sandusky Innocent Says Journalist; Cops: Boy with Autism Tortured By 2 Teen Girls

Aired March 13, 2014 - 21:00   ET



DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Jerry Sandusky is innocent. That`s what this man, who reviewed all the evidence, claims. He`s here exclusively. Says Dottie Sandusky is right. Her husband is not a pedophile.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: For all you people slaying her, she wasn`t convicted of anything except maybe marrying a bad guy.

PINSKY: Plus, is this the most twisted family ever? A wife plots to kill her husband. Possible motive: a romance with her own son.

And a grown man appears to attack a child for an iPad. We have the rest of that story.

Let`s get started.



PINSKY: Good evening, everyone.

My co-host is Sirius XM Radio`s Jenny Hutt.

And coming up, we got a huge response to our report on the mentally disabled boy, the kid with autism allegedly abused by two teenaged girls. We`ll hear from his mother.

But, first, Jerry Sandusky, who was convicted of 45 counts of child sexual assault. His wife says he`s innocent and she`s not the only one who says that. She told NBC about what her husband told her from prison. Take a look.


DOTTIE SANDUSKY, WIFE OF PEDOPHILE: He said a friend had written to him and asked him what he missed, what did he take most for granted. And he said -- family meals, the fun time with the grandkids playing ball, doing special things with friends.

MATT LAUER, NBC: And I think it might be easy to say for Jerry Sandusky, if he continued to shower with boys after admitting it was wrong and saying I wish I were dead, why? Because he`s sick and he`s a pedophile.

SANDUSKY: Jerry would not say, I wish I was dead.


PINSKY: (AUDIO GAP) Anahita Sedaghatfar, clinical psychologist Judy Ho, and here exclusively is that journalist you saw sitting there next to Dottie, documentary filmmaker and journalist John Ziegler.

John, you spent two years investigating the case against Sandusky. What did you find?

JOHN ZIEGLER, JOURNALIST, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Well, Dr. Drew, first of all, it`s important to point out this is not a commercial endeavor I`m involved with. This is a search for the truth. I started this two years ago because I was extremely skeptical of this media narrative that Joe Paterno somehow was part of a cover-up for Jerry Sandusky.

It was obvious to me that that narrative is balderdash. It`s obviously ridiculous and has been proven to be ridiculous although the mainstream media has not accepted that reality as of yet. As I got deeper and deeper in, as I interviewed Jerry Sandusky not once but twice from prison, as I got to know his wife exceedingly well, as I spoke to his family member, jurors, as I spoke to jurors, as I spoke to all sorts of people surrounding this case, including friends of the victims and the accusers, something just said to me this is not right. This is not adding up.

The math at the beginning of this case simply does not add up. There`s no consciousness of guilt on Dottie Sandusky`s part and no consciousness of guilt on Jerry Sandusky`s part. And the evidence is far, far weaker than anybody in the media is willing to admit, or is probably even aware of because the media bought in two days after this story broke that he was guilty. Penn State fires a legend. A nuclear explosion occurs. Two days after that --


ZIEGLER: A vigil for the accusers and they`re sanctified as victims.


ZIEGLER: And everything is history.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Anahita.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: OK, I understand, I agree with you that we shouldn`t jump to conclusions right when a story breaks, but this case went to trial. There were witnesses, there was evidence presented.

So, my question to you is since you`ve studied this trial for two years, are you not familiar with that wiretap where the police were actually able to record Sandusky`s conversation with the mother of one of these boys where he said, "Yes, I took a shower with him", and he never once denied touching that boy inappropriately. And he`s apologizing, saying, "I`m so sorry, I want to die."

I mean, have you seen that?

ZIEGLER: Have you heard the tape of that? Have you heard the tape that?

SEDAGHATFAR: I actually have -- yes, I have heard the tape of that.

ZIEGLER: Really?


ZIEGLER: Really? Because there is no tape.

SEDAGHATFAR: Actually, it was actually online. It was actually online. I read the transcript of the tape today.


SEDAGHATFAR: So it`s your representation that the police put out an inaccurate transcript.


ZIEGLER: I`m not quite sure I understand the relevance of the statement to begin with because, frankly, even if it was said -- and Jerry denies it and Dottie says it doesn`t sound like him -- the police were there. They decided not to charge him in that case because there was no sexual contact and it was found to be unfounded. He had a 13-year relationship with that boy after the fact.

SEDAGHATFAR: That is such a --


ZIEGLER: Baloney. How much would you like to bet on that? 13-year relationship with that boy after that event! Thirteen years. You know nothing about this case.

SEDAGHATFAR: Stop screaming.

Actually, you don`t know me and I have studied the case as well. But --

PINSKY: Go ahead. Anahita, go.

SEDAGHATFAR: No, I was going to say -- I read the transcript of the tape of the recording, and I guess my question to you would be in light of that, I guess now you`re saying that you believe that the authorities, the government, actually misled the public and has misled the family of all the victims by releasing a fraudulent transcript of a taped conversation that never took place?

ZIEGLER: No, I`m explaining to you that there`s not a tape. I`m saying that even if -- I`m not sure I understand the relevance of this. Because the police were there and determined properly as determined by the testimony of this boy --


ZIEGLER: -- 13 years later after a long relationship with Sandusky that nothing happened.

PINSKY: Got it. Judy?

JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: OK. Hi, John. Hi, John. Hi, John. It`s Judy.

OK. So I have two questions for you. The first one is you were mentioning that there`s no consciousness of guilt on Jerry or his wife`s part. Does it mean that they have to feel guilty if they committed something? There`s a whole subset of humans that we call psychopaths that don`t feel guilt at all.

And my question to you is, there`s such a thing called researcher bias. You know, when we want something to be true, we look at the evidence and we basically --


HO: -- look at the ones that confirm our hypothesis and our ideas first. I know you started off this interview by saying I actually came at it from the other side and the more time I spent, the more I realized it wasn`t true. But, you know, the more time we spent getting to know an individual the more we sympathize with them as well.


PINSKY: Go ahead, John.

ZIEGLER: Let me address that. I can assure you that Jerry and Dottie do not fit into that first category that your guest just hypothesized about.

But more importantly, could you please explain what my agenda here is? Do you think I wanted to come to the conclusion that Jerry Sandusky might be innocent? I don`t believe he had sex with boys. I don`t know if you can call that, quote/unquote, "innocent."

But the reality is I have nothing to gain here and everything to lose. I didn`t want to come to that conclusion.


SEDAGHATFAR: Why are you here?

PINSKY: Matt Lauer made the comment that this could be sort of a career-ending conclusion to come forward with. Has it been for you?

ZIEGLER: It`s horrendous. This has been horrific on my life. I spent two-plus years on this case with no money, no hope of money simply because I knew the truth of this case had been lost, and I was the only person who was in a position to find it.

And I have come to the conclusion that the narrative that we were told two days after this story started is not just false, it is likely totally false. That`s why there was no cover-up at Penn State.


PINSKY: Anahita, leave it. Leave it. We got how you feel.

John, thank you for coming forward with your opinion. We appreciate it.

And we`re going to leave this story and go on to what we have next, because we had a huge response to this story last night. It`s a case of a boy with autism allegedly abused in a cruel, cruel way. We have an update with his mother.

And later, is a mother/son affair the motive for attempted murder of this woman`s husband or ex-husband? We`ll be back to discuss it after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These allegations are heinous allegations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventeen-year-old Lauren Bush and a 15-year-old unnamed female.

PINSKY: They`re accused of torturing a 6-year-old boy who was mentally disabled.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Videotaped multiple assaults that they unleashed on a 16-year-old boy with autism.

PINSKY: Drag him by the hair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Assaulting him with a knife, kicking him in the groin.

PINSKY: Forcing him to perform sex acts, some of which involved animals.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s absolutely sick and beyond me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Psychopaths finding each other.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the girls have admitted to videotaping the incidents.

PINSKY: Why film this? What are they thinking?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who could harbor this ill will to do something to completely heinous?


PINSKY: Back with Jenny.

We received an overwhelming response to this story last night. And you wanted to know could two teens be that cruel to a mentally disabled boy? We will hear from his mother.

And warning, what we`re about to discuss is very disturbing material. You`ll hear more about what they did, what they forced him to do.

There`s my panel: Anahita is back. And joining us is Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, as well as Samantha Schacher, host of "Pop Trigger" on the Young Turks Network. I have the police report.

Hi, Segun.

I`ve got to warn you guys, the viewers, this is a graphic, graphic document here. Here it is right here. Here`s what it is.

I`ll show you what`s on some of this police report. Quote, "Another video shows the victim sitting nude on the bed. He`s engaged in a sexual act with the co-defendant behind him and the defendant, right, recording the victim while attempting to coerce him to have sexual relations with, left out here, with a family dog."

Another part reads, quote, "The victim tied the dog to a chair and tried to forcibly have sexual contact with the dog."

Segun, I`ve not yet heard from you on this story. Go ahead.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Dr. Drew, if I said what I wanted to say, I`d probably never be allowed back on air again. But, you know, even in prison, even amongst the worst of our society, amongst murderers, rapists, thieves and scoundrels, they don`t abuse the mentally challenged or the physically challenged.

For these girls to do that, for the worst of our society to look down on their actions, to actually be able to take the moral high ground with the type of atrocity. I hope they rot. Dr. Drew, I really do.

People want to say, Segun, you`re Mr. Miracles. I can go Old Testament with the rest of them. I hope they rot, like this is unforgivable. It`s disgusting.

HUTT: Right on.

ODUOLOWU: Deplorable. I hope they rot.

PINSKY: I don`t disagree with you. Based on what I`ve heard so far, what I`ve told you so far and what I heard yesterday, let me throw a little fly in the ointment and I`m going to propose it to Anahita first.

Here`s what the boy`s mother told "The Washington Post." She said he doesn`t appear to be traumatized. He thinks these girls are his friends and he`s surprised the police are involved.

I read somewhere, Anahita, that he actually thought one of them was his girlfriend. Is it possible -- think about it this way -- you always like collecting all the data. Is it is possible the girls are disabled in some way, too, and these two not good to be alone together -- maybe they`re not heinous and psychopaths. Maybe they`re just impaired and they sort of went this unbelievable direction.

SEDAGHATFAR: It could be, Dr. Drew. Clearly, there is something wrong with these two girls to be capable of this type of behavior. I don`t know that that`s going to be any type of legal defense for them.

And I agree with Segun, I think this is just so disgusting. And what makes it even more sad is just what you said. This little boy still doesn`t think that these girls did anything wrong. They`re still my friends. I still want to hang out with them.

And these girls picked on him --

PINSKY: Anahita, let me just twist it. Maybe the boy motivated some of this, Jenny.


PINSKY: It is possible?


HUTT: Dr. Drew!


PINSKY: I cannot get my head around this. I can`t understand what -- I just can`t understand what went on here with these kids that they would videotape this and the one kid would still think this is his girlfriend. It just doesn`t make sense to me.

But, Jenny, go ahead. Tell me your thought.

HUTT: OK, the tell for me, Dr. Drew, is the involving of the dog. These girls are sinister.

To involve a dog? There`s nothing you can say to me that they thought this was okay and they were really in a relationship with this boy who`s not all there and it makes it extra sad that he`s not able to understand real relationships. It`s disgusting.



PINSKY: Sam, I know you`re outraged. It seems like pure exploitation of the boy and the dog. It seems on the surface unimaginable. And yet, by the way, the girls thought this was just a game we were playing.

How could they have thought that?

SCHACHER: They enjoyed it, Dr. Drew. They manipulated him. The one that pretended to be his girlfriend, she actually robbed him essentially of his savings account because he continued to buy her gifts. So they used him any way, shape possible.

And you know what, Dr. Drew? They have zero empathy. They prey on the voiceless. They prey on the weak.

They`re two budding psychopaths who are experimenting. They`re testing the boundaries.

And mark my word, if they weren`t caught when they were, I guarantee they would have continued to try to outdo their heinous act and the next step would have been murder.

PINSKY: Sam, guys, I`ll tell you what, I`m going to bring in a behavior bureau to try to further chew on this. See if they can answer this question that I keep throwing at everybody here in this panel. Why were they videotaping these things also? I can`t make sense of that.

And later, a grown man assaults a child for an iPad. Look at this. It`s unbelievable. You got to see it.

Be right back with more of this after -- after the break.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another video depicts a male on an icy pond being told to continue to walk out further. Actually falling in the water several times and pulling himself out.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny.

We`re talking about the two teenaged girls accused of tormenting a 16- year-old autistic boy, mentally disabled.

And, Jenny, that piece right there -- the part on the icy lake, that`s the part I`m questioning.


HUTT: That`s the part?

PINSKY: But that`s attempted murder. And then filming, right?

HUTT: Yes, the whole thing is -- yes.

PINSKY: Well, I can`t understand it.

So let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Judy is back with us. Also joining us now Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal". Leeann Tweeden, social commentator.

And if you would like to join our conversation, you can tweet me right now @DrDrewHLN #behaviorbureau.

Danine, help me out. You deal with lot of criminals and people whose minds aren`t working like the rest of ours. Is that what you see here?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I see a big mess. The reason I see that is there`s three different things going on here.

I`m looking at the predatory nature in which they went after this kid and how they kind of like -- he wasn`t in their normal circle of friends or he wasn`t part of their family. They went after him as a victim. So, that`s really troubling to me.

The criminal confidence in which they abused him in his own home several times, who -- people that go into your home to assault you are different than people who break into your car. There`s a certain amount of criminal confidence that that entails. That`s troublesome, and on a lake in public like that.

And thirdly, the sadistic nature of what they did to him, not only involving what they did with him but the animals, and the fact that they videotaped it is so they can watch it back over again and relook at the work they did, admire what they`ve done.

PINSKY: Danine, as usual, I feel like I have a power drill going into my head when I hear you say these things.

Judy, that`s I think why I keep looking of explanations.

MANETTE: I`m sorry.

PINSKY: No, I don`t think -- I think you may be right. And that`s why I keep looking for ways of understanding this. That`s why I keep trying to understand what motivates these girls. Were they abused, what`s going on?

The police report said the 17-year-old girl thought this was all just a big game. Does that inform you in any way?

HO: No, it doesn`t, Dr. Drew, because that`s ridiculous.

PINSKY: Tow about, Judy?

HO: You know what? There`s ways to play a prank, and then there are these types of things that these girls did together that really like Sam said in the last block really remind me of budding psychopaths. They have anti-social personality disorder.

Do you know why? It`s because females already not predisposed to do things that are this violent. And yet, they do this, they capture it on video. They involve a dog.

Any time you involve an animal and do that, that`s a huge trigger for something that just shows you have no social consciousness. And you know what they did? They took advantage of the fact that this boy has autism and has impaired social interactions and is lonely as most autistic teenagers are.

Made themselves to be his friend and got him to do these unthinkable things, I just cannot believe it.

PINSKY: Leeann, what do you got?

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Dr. Drew, the thing that I -- these two girls were doing this like over a span of a couple months and they were videotaping it. Me as a new mother, with a small child at home, a small boy, where was the mom?

It seems that every report I`ve read, the mom is like -- well, I`m trying to let him know that they`re not good people, they`re not bad people. No, you need to make sure that these girls do not come to your house any more. You need to make sure you talk to their parents, because obviously there`s something wrong with these children.

Your son is the one that`s mentally impaired. You need to help him and protect him. That is your job.

You either stay home or you move him around or you make sure that they do not come into your home.

PINSKY: But this kid had a driver`s permit. The boy with autism had a driver`s permit. I just wonder is there any other explanation, Judy or Danine, for the girls? I mean, could they have a brain disorder? Could they have -- is there something there that --

TWEEDEN: I don`t care --


TWEEDEN: Something`s not right.

PINSKY: Danine?

MANETTE: But whatever it is, they need to be put away from the rest of society so that we can be safe from people like this while they deal with whatever their brain disorder is.

HO: Yes.

MANETTE: They need to be somewhere else and the rest of us can be safe, because these girls are evil.

HUTT: Right.

PINSKY: For now -- yes, finish up.

HO: Dr. Drew, I was just going to say that these girls, what`s wrong with them is that they most likely grew up in a -- I`m just hypothesizing - - they probably grew in a household where criminality was rewarded.

They got to learn this from somewhere. This is some type of a social learning experience that they picked up on.

PINSKY: All right. We`re going to leave it that.

Next, we may have --


PINSKY: Listen, I`m going to bring you the most twisted family ever up next.

HUTT: Great.

PINSKY: Maybe outdoes these two. Maybe if they grow up, this is how it will go. A woman tried to kill her husband with her brother and her son`s help.

Then, we have relatives brawling outside the courtroom. There it is.

And later, what should happen to a man who`s accused of beating up a kid for his iPad? I`ve got some ideas, my panel`s got ideas. Twitter me with some more ideas. I`ll get to you too, after this.



PINSKY (voice-over): A Las Vegas jury says this woman, 43-year-old Amy Bessey, orchestrated a murder plot to kill her estranged husband. Her conspirators, her brother and her own 21-year-old son. They pleaded guilty to attempted murder.

Police say the woman was motivated by a hefty insurance policy and an unnatural romantic relationship about her own son.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Segun, Anahita. Joining us, Amy Paffrath, social commentator.

So that woman you saw there, Amy Bessey, was convicted. And she will spend 14 years in prison. But just moments after her sentencing, a brawl broke out amongst relatives and the ex-wife of the man she plotted to kill.

There -- Amy, what do you make of all this mess?

AMY PAFFRATH, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, I thought my family was dysfunctional, but this puts my family to shame. I mean, there`s so many levels of just white trash going on here. These are amateur assassins living in a trailer park. I mean, the ex-wife`s family fighting the recent family? There`s so much just horrible things going on with these families and incest being thrown about, with Amy and her son Michael maybe had an unnatural relationship.

I mean, I kiss my own mother on the lip, but this is a whole other level of weird going on in this family.

PINSKY: Yes. You mentioned that there are reports of a romantic relationship between Amy Bessey (ph) and her son, Michael. That was sort of surfacing throughout the trial after Michael was arrested. He reportedly wrote a jailhouse letter to his mother saying, quote, "I miss touching you," unquote -- Anahita, what say you?

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t know, Dr. Drew. She might be a moron. This is probably the dumbest crime in history, but I don`t know that she`s a sexual deviant.

HUTT: Oh, come on.

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t think there`s enough evidence. That one like little like blurb that you read is out of context. We haven`t read the entire letter. So, I think it`s kind of like it sounds sexy, it sounds provocative.


HUTT: Dr. Drew --

SEDAGHATFAR: Let me finish.


SEDAGHATFAR: I think what`s more plausible here is that she wanted the life insurance money. She wanted the $250,000 before her divorce was finalized. So, I`m sorry it`s not salacious enough for you --

HUTT: Guys, Anahita, Anahita, people are saying that they would go to nightclubs together and he would grab his mother`s tush. My 15-year-old son would never ever want to touch my tush. He`d be grossed out. He would never write to me "I miss touching you, mommy?"

SEDAGHATFAR: Are this like for ex-con brother --

HUTT: No. Anahita --

SEDAGHATFAR: Who are these people that are making these statements?


SEDAGHATFAR: -- TV. I know it does, but the reality is, I don`t think we can jump to that conclusion.

PINSKY: Before I unleash Segun on this, I want to point out that we did reach out to the attorneys for both Amy Bessey (ph) and her son, Michael, regarding allegations that they were romantically involved. We have not received a response. Now, Segun.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, Dr. Drew, where there`s smoke, there`s fire. There`s just too much smoke here. These aren`t people pulling it out of thin air like innocent bystanders.

HUTT: Right.

ODUOLOWU: These are members of the family saying that the relationship is unnatural. They`re not conjuring this out of, you know, smoke and mirrors. Like, these are people that have actually seen with their own eyes something that they find deplorable. Her brother is an ex- con. Her son was dishonorably discharged from the military. I believe that they did conspire to do this man harm.

There`s a text message between the mother and the accused -- well, the guilty -- the one found guilty basically saying I love it when the whole plan comes together. The whole thing make the Mansons look natural and make them look sane --


ODUOLOWU: -- because to brawl outside of a courthouse? I mean -- listen, I can`t use the term that our other panelist used, but let`s just say that they are not making the state of Nevada look classy right now.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Amy. Now he`s comparing your -- I think Amy does a direct assault on you. I think he compared your family to the Manson family. I think that`s what he said. The Manson Family looked good.


PAFFRATH: I think he told you about the Bessey Family. The Bessey Family.

ODUOLOWU: Yes, the Bessey family.

PAFFRATH: Robert Bessey (ph) even alleged that the reason for the divorce was because of the unnatural relationship.

HUTT: Yes.

PAFFRATH: So, this is coming from multiple people in the family.

HUTT: Exactly.

PAFFRATH: Like Segun said, when there`s smoke, there`s fire. A 21- year-old man does not touch his mother`s butt and write her letters from jail saying "I miss touching you." I mean, that`s the letter that was found in the jailhouse.

SEDAGHATFAR: Obviously, they`re all guilty of this. She`s been convicted. The two guys have confessed. It was the stupidest crime because they did. They left a paper trail. Like Segun just mentioned, her brother, a few hours before the attempted murder, sends a text saying, oh, sister, don`t you love it when plans come together and come to fruition?

And then, he`s caught on surveillance tape going to a convenience store buying an energy drink just an hour before he attempted to kill this guy and then they all sit down and go and have a nice dinner after the shooting. So, they`re clearly not the brightest tools in the shed.


ODUOLOWU: Anahita, please, Dr. Drew.


ODUOLOWU: Can I just ask Anahita really quickly?


ODUOLOWU: You honestly don`t believe that she was sleeping with her son? Like, you really don`t think anything unnatural was going on in your heart of hearts? Take off the lawyer hat, put on the common sense one.

SEDAGHATFAR: Let me give you the common sense on, when I read the headlines, when I was doing research on this case, every headline said mother having unnatural relationship with her son. It sounds really like provocative, it made me want to read it, but there were really no facts to support it, because none of these articles did it say who was saying this. Who was saying that he was slapping her butt and doing these things? So, I think it`s unfounded.

PINSKY: We will have to leave it at that. I do think -- Segun, I think the Borgias would be proud. I do.



PINSKY: Next, more on the criminal family, this particular criminal family with the "Behavior Bureau." You can find us any time on Instagram @DrDrewHLN, and we will be right back.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny and our "Behavior Bureau" today. That is Sam, Danine, and Leeann. And I`ve assembled my "Behavior Bureau" today primarily to help Jenny Hutt who seems to be traumatized at the idea of young boy -- not young boy, the man-son of the mom touching the mom on the rear end.

HUTT: I mean, come on, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Are you OK, Jenny?

HUTT: Yes --

PINSKY: It seems it really gotten you.

HUTT: It did. There`s something about a mother violating her son, that whole -- oh!

PINSKY: Yes, yes.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I agree with you. At least it`s adopted. He`s adopted.

HUTT: No, he`s not adopted.


HUTT: It`s her biological son.



PINSKY: -- adopted this boy. The woman is the biological mother of this child, Leeann. So watch out for your sons, ladies. Watch out.

HUTT: Oh, God, Dr. Drew!

PINSKY: We`re discussing Amy Bessey (ph) who has been found guilty of trying to kill her estranged husband with the help of her brother and her son. We`re discussing here. She took the stand in her own defense and she claimed the husband was severely abusing her. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He took his fist to my face. He took his knees to my ribs. I was tired of fighting. I`m tired. I want him gone. He needed to be away from me, away from the kids. I need to feel safe again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you conspire with Michael Bessey to kill Robert Bessey?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you conspire with Rick Pearson to kill Robert Bessey?



PINSKY: Danine, is there anything about her having been abused that helps us understand what went down in this family?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I don`t believe any of the motives that have been presented in this case, quite honestly, Dr. Drew, because it`s like a year before this, the girlfriend of her son tried to kill him. So, this guy`s got more people trying to kill him than J.R. Ewing. It`s like they`re lined up around the block trying to kill this guy.


MANETTE: But she`s mad. You know she`s mad that he`s having -- that`s sleeping with his mom, but she tries to kill the dad. So, none of this makes any sense to me. They were getting a divorce. So, why do we need to kill anybody? They were getting a divorce.

PINSKY: Well --

MANETTE: No sense.

PINSKY: Sam, I think it starts to make sense when you think about the insurance money, doesn`t it?

SCHACHER: Yes $250,000. And in fact, police found her ex-husband, her soon-to-be ex-husband`s insurance policy on her bags in her house. So, you couple that with all of the text messages and phone calls between the three of them and then them meeting at the diner after the alleged murder, I mean, they are the dumbest criminals out there. They should be on America`s dumbest criminals.



PINSKY: Leeann.

TWEEDEN: Yes. In the letter that he wrote, did you see, Dr. Drew, in the letter if you read it, he`s like "we`ll never have to work again." I`m like -- $250,000 let three people even in Las Vegas never work again a day in their lives. They need to do --


TWEEDEN: Obviously, these guys aren`t right in the head.


TWEEDEN: Seriously.

PINSKY: Amy Bessey and her other co-conspirator, this was her brother, he`s an ex-con. And, do we know anything more about that brother, Sam?

MANETTE: Yes. What does he have to do with it?

SCHACHER: It was discussed -- a little bit, it was discussed in the previous panel, Dr. Drew. Just that, you know, he was the one that sent the text message to Amy basically saying that I love when a plan falls into place. And then, of course, there`s the surveillance footage right before he attempted to commit murder where he`s buying an energy drink and it was that surveillance footage which led to the arrest.

And then, you look at, like I stated earlier, all the text messages between them. So, he really is the reason that kind of allowed all this to unravel. But also, Dr. Drew, the son is the one that told -- I guess confessed actually, to his cell mate about the involvement with his mother, but he also told his cell mate that his mother was abused. So, was she abused, was she not? Of course, that doesn`t condone murder, but --


PINSKY: I`ve got to leave it here, guys.


PINSKY: -- right, in a terrible place. So, if you`re in an abusive relationship, get out and reach out. There`s a lot of help out there. Every community has help. Please, if you`ve been struck once or you even feel threatened or there`s coercion and control, you`re heading into trouble and this is how crazy it can get.

Next, the "Behavior Bureau" back and ready to rip into a man who`s accused of ripping off a child for his iPad.

And, two people are dead, two dozen injured in that South by Southwest crash. Could the suspect go free? What`s his defense? We`re right back after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This eight-year-old was walking to the car when, all of a sudden, a stranger punched him and ran off with his iPad. The eight-year-old was leaving day care with his aunt, that`s her running after the thief. She didn`t catch him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You punch a child so hard his nose -- might have broken his nose and there`s blood all over his face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The stolen iPad was recovered but crushed.


PINSKY: Awful. I`m back with Sam, Segun, Anahita. The boy`s recovering at home. The suspect who we are going to show you right now was arrested and charged with first degree aggravated robbery. Witnesses say before he punched the boy, he said, give me that and he used the n-word at that point.



PINSKY: Samantha, your reaction to this? It`s just too much.

ODUOLOWU: Interesting. Very interesting. Oh, Sam. Go ahead, Sam.

SCHACHER: Oh, I`m sorry. OK. I had a lapse of hearing for a second. No, for one, I just want to commend this bystander, because how many incidents did we report on where the bystanders are sitting there with their mouth agape or they whip out their cell phones and they begin filming. So, I do thank for him being proactive. What a lesion for all of us to learn to remind to have each other`s back and to act as a community. So, bravo to him.

PINSKY: You mentioned the good Samaritan chased the suspect down. He talked to a reporter from Minneapolis affiliate, KARE. Take a look at him.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just don`t hit a child. You don`t hit the child. He punched a child so hard. I kept running after him. He tried to get to the apartment buildings. Those apartment buildings have been closed. So, he tried to stop away from him. So, I stopped him right here. And I say, "Hey, where are you going?" He said "I didn`t do anything. I didn`t do anything."


PINSKY: Segun, go ahead now.

ODUOLOWU: Well, you know, with what he called the boy, an eight-year- old child, maybe they raise it to the level of being a hate crime, but what bothers me the most is you got a grown man punching a kid for an iPad. As I said earlier, Dr. Drew, even amongst criminals, you do not -- even the criminal element knows that they do not pick on children. Pedophiles and people that prey on children are treated are looked down upon even in jail.

They are ready when this man is convicted to throw him a party in prison that the likes he`ll never see. I can`t wait for him to be convicted. I really can`t.

PINSKY: Jenny.

ODUOLOWU: You punch a child. You`re not even a man.

HUTT: Dr. Drew, according to that good Samaritan -- and this is not a confirmed report, but the good Samaritan said this guy has like 60 priors. Something insane like that. So, why was he on the street? That`s what I don`t understand --

PINSKY: I`ll tell you what, because he had a good defense attorney like Anahita who get --


SEDAGHATFAR: I knew you were going to say that.

ODUOLOWU: There you go, Anahita.

SEDAGHATFAR: I knew you were going to say that.

PINSKY: -- but it`s true.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, it`s true. This guy probably should not have been out on the streets, Dr. Drew.

HUTT: You think?

SEDAGHATFAR: And I love this man, this good Samaritan. I mean, what he said was so true. You just don`t do this to a kid. I mean, really? Beat up on someone your own size. I think he was a total coward. He was a racist. And you know, I`m just so glad that the child was OK. And he did get a free iPad, by the way.

ODUOLOWU: Was it a miracle that he chased him down?


PINSKY: Yes. It`s a miracle, Segun. Another miracle for segun. I love the miracles that I can sign on to --

ODUOLOWU: He`s an older man chasing down a criminal? I mean, come on.


ODUOLOWU: We know where they write about the good Samaritans.

PINSKY: I`m going to switch gears and we`re going to talk now about the tragic crash at the South by Southwest Music Festival. Two people killed, run down by an alleged drunk driver trying to escape the police. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People down every ten feet, everywhere you look somebody`s been hit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of nowhere, a car just barreled through some barricades and directly into a group of people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The driver crashed through barricades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell him to stop because he was going the wrong way. When I see he didn`t stop, I just jumped out of the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve had two individuals who were pronounced dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police subdued the driver with a taser.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This suspect faces two counts of capital murder.


PINSKY: Seconds after the car plowed into group of people, one witness caught the terrible scene on his cell phone. He posted it then to YouTube. We`ve been watching and some of that footage, it will play alongside -- do you guys have that footage? We`re going to go to it right now.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People down every ten feet. Everywhere you look, somebody`s been hit. CPR.


PINSKY: You can see -- doing CPR on somebody there. Sam, help -- trying to get these images out of our head, but for people that don`t know what South by Southwest is, if there`s anybody out there that falls into that category, please explain.

SCHACHER: Well, gosh, it`s been a really big festival for I know at least over 20 years, but it`s really gained in popularity just over the last five years. And it`s a multimedia conference/festival where celebrities will go to support their films, but it`s also a showcase for comedians, also a showcase for musicians. It also embraces the digital media. So, social influence has a big presence there as well.

But Dr. Drew, this is not a chaotic like music festival. This is actually a well-orchestrated, well-respected music festival/film festival. And I`m sure that the police did everything possible to ensure that something like this would not happen. They barricade the streets. They have not a problem prior to this. So, I think that this is just a tragic fluke incident and it`s all on the suspect.

PINSKY: All right. I`m going to bring a woman next in who witnessed the crash. She`ll be here with us. And I wonder, you know, Austin gets overrun during the festival. I wonder if they are, in fact, doing enough, Sam. But we`ll discuss after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That vehicle was used as a weapon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was clearly a gap he could have driven through. And he did -- from what it looked in my eyes, intentionally actually swerved into this group.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maliciously, even I would say as there was an open space in the road where he could have driven.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My first instinct was to tweet out the location and send help and use some hashtags that were being utilized at South by Southwest.


PINSKY: Back with Jenny, Anahita, Segun, and Sam. We`re talking about a horrible crash at the South by Southwest Music Festival in Austin, Texas. And joining us on the phone, a witness to the crash, Yvette Ruiz. Yvette, thanks for joining us. I understand the car just missed you by a few feet. What did you see and hear?

VOICE OF YVETTE RUIZ, WITNESSED FATAL ACCIDENT: Hi. Thank you for having me this evening. We were standing in front of a bar waiting for a friend of ours to come meet us. And we noticed some commotion over to the right of us and saw a car just kind of charge through busy street, it was full of pedestrians. And we saw the whole thing. I was just actually standing on that end of the street before I crossed over.

And, I saw the car pull up and approach this group of kids, young adults. And I thought surely the car will stop and it sped up. And you just hear and see the wreckage of these poor people getting slammed up against the vehicle and the car didn`t slow down. It just kept on going.

PINSKY: Are you OK? I can tell the way you`re sighing this has still left you with tremendous anxiety and no doubt a traumatic experience. Are you OK?

RUIZ: Thank you for asking. I`m very thankful and lucky to be alive. This has been a very, very strange experience. And I`m sorry that I bore witness to it and it`s something that I`ll carry with me forever.

PINSKY: Are you from Austin?

RUIZ: I`m from Texas. I`ve lived in Austin for about ten years. I grew up in (INAUDIBLE) Texas.

PINSKY: Are they prepared for the amount of people that show up for South by Southwest or is this a symptom that they need to expand a lot of resources?

RUIZ: No, I think the city`s ready. I mean, we do a lot of planning. A lot of overtime policemen are working. We`re equipped for festivals like this. It`s kind of one of the benefits of living in Austin. I just think that what happened was an awful, awful tragedy and not anything that anyone ever expected. But I don`t think it`s any symptom of the city not being able to handle a festival like South By.

PINSKY: I want to give my panel a chance to ask you any questions. Segun, do you have a comment or a question?

ODUOLOWU: Yes. Well, first, Yvette, thank you for joining us. And I wish it was under better circumstances. I have some familiarity with Texas, too. I went to the University of Houston and I`ve been on sixth street in Austin before. And I agree with you that the city plans for events like this and this event particularly really, really well. And no one can predict the actions of a mad man.

And so, I don`t think the city of Austin or the state of Texas should in any way be held responsible for a mad man plowing into pedestrians to evade capture. I think we should look at this criminal for what he is, a criminal who acted irrationally and, you know, let`s throw the book at him and I`m sure Texas will.

PINSKY: Anahita?

SEDAGHATFAR: I was just wondering, I read some reports that he was actually intentionally trying to drive into people. Is that what you saw?

RUIZ: No, certainly not. At least not from my perspective. Of course, I only saw one very -- I saw a minute of a much longer experience for him. It didn`t seem like it was intentional. He really was evading the police. He was operating under the influence. I don`t know how drunk he was or I don`t know if he was drunk or on drugs. I have no idea. But it didn`t seem intentional.


RUIZ: But, of course, I mean, the carnage that he left was absolutely intentional. He could have stopped and he didn`t and he accelerated. And that`s awful. I think to myself I wonder if he was actually trying to press on the brakes instead of the gas?

PINSKY: Jenny, why don`t you go ahead --

ODUOLOWU: Wow, that`s crazy.

HUTT: So, were you following how this was playing out on social media, on Twitter? How real on Twitter the depiction on Twitter, how accurate was it while you were there?

RUIZ: I mean, all of the Instagraming and the tweeting from folks who were actually at the site of the crime, I think, was all pretty accurate. It was awful and horrific. Again, horrific. I think it was as accurate as it could be, I mean, just given that so much real-time feedback that`s coming from Twitter.

PINSKY: Yvette, I`m going to have to stop you right there. Thank you, panel. Thank you for joining us. Just got to say, "Right This Minute" starts right this minute.