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"Loud Music" Shooting Victim's Father On Stand; Zoo Giraffe Killed, Meat Fed To Lions As Kids Watch; Defendant's Son Testifies In "Loud Music" Trial; Rand Paul Zeroes In On Bill Clinton
Aired February 10, 2014 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Bottom of the hour, I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. The man on your screen lot of his 17-year-old son in November of 2012, his son was 17-year-old Jordan Davis, and Jordan Davis was shot and killed at this gas station over this whole dispute over loud music and the defendant here on trial is the man, a middle aged white man by the name of Michael Dunn.
So what we are watching right now and this is a side bar conversation right now with attorneys talking. So you can't hear sound. We are going to come back to it in a minute. Ashleigh Banfield is covering it. She is in Jacksonville, Florida. Ashleigh, the father here, Ronald Davis, he has not been on the stand for too long, correct?
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. He just got up on the stand and he was able to get his name and spelling out to the court stenographer before they went into side bar. I think what we are about to hear and far be it for me to prognosticate here, but what I think we are about to hear from this witness is that he spoke with the three surviving teenagers after his son died. Their stories were somewhat varied. I think this is what the defense wants to be able to elicit from him in deposition.
Because you did hear before you went to break that there was question about his deposition and having given a deposition. But listen, if there is any room for a hostile witness, it would be the man who if is facing the defense attorney who is defending the man who killed your son. This will be the kind of dynamic, Brooke, that plays out in the courtroom. What some court case hinged on. This will be drenching for the jury to have to watch the father speak about this, and have to answer questions again to an adversary across the room.
BALDWIN: I think I saw everyone sitdown. Ashleigh Banfield, I know you are there with us for this, but let's take a listen again.
RON DAVIS, VICTIM'S FATHER: -- no they came over to the house and they talk to me about that they were sorry and those facts is what they talked about. They didn't talk about the facts surrounding his death. They talked about how sorry they were that son was killed -- was shot and killed is what they said to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Davis, again, do you recall taking a deposition? DAVIS: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On November 21st, 2013?
DAVIS: I'm not sure of the date, but I remember taking a deposition with you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you recall taking an oath to tell the truth like you did today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recall again on page 20, Judge, lines 13 through --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now we are doing a proper impeachment. He is trying to impeach him based on the answers in this case so overruled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that's page 20 lines 13 through 18, Mr. Davis, do you recall giving the answer they were trying to tell me what they were trying to say. I think they were all in shock because what one was saying the other was saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why I'm sure we are about to have a copy of the deposition before we do these things. I understand the situation. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take 5 minutes. I need you to step into the jury room and I will get a copy of the deposition. We'll be right back.
BALDWIN: OK, Ashleigh Banfield, here we have it looks like they are taking a 5-minute break. Talk about stop and start, stop and start. You have this father. What's happening?
BANFIELD: So I'm in a bit of a disadvantage. I want to give you full disclaimer here. The feed from the courthouse is not pristine and I'm having a very difficult time make out what's being said. I did hear that they were looking for the copy of the deposition.
BALDWIN: I heard a lawyer's voice saying that they were frustrated that they had seen or wished they had seen this copy of the deposition before this man testifies.
BANFIELD: Yes, well, listen, we should -- everybody should have their hands on that deposition by now. For heaven's sake, we had lots of time for discovery. I'd be shocked if they didn't. Crazier things have happened. But it does lead me to believe that I may have been on the right track here, Brooke. With the idea that this defense attorney wants to elicit from the father of the victim that even he didn't get the same stories from the three teenagers in the car.
It's critical because they are the only surviving witnesses. Jordan Davis can't tell his story as to what happened. Michael Dunn has skin in the game so he would obviously be considered by some to be a biased witness. The other witnesses were more like ear witnesses than anything else. So this deposition I think would be really critical to the defense attorney and the admissibility would be critical obviously to the state.
BALDWIN: We will come back and of course, as news warrant, Ashleigh Banfield, my thanks to you in Jacksonville, Florida. Coming up here, a zoo killed a healthy giraffe and feeds its remains to the lions in front of little children. Why in the world did they do this? We will talk to the man in charge of the zoo, next.
BALDWIN: A day at the zoo turned into a very graphic show and tell in Denmark. The carcass of a baby giraffe was fed to lions and cougars in front of zoo attendees including little bitty children. So let me just warn now. The images for this story today are incredibly graphic, but we have to show them to you to tell the whole story.
The 18-month-old giraffe was healthy, but according to officials at this Copenhagen zoo, the animal had to be euthanized because of European laws on inbreeding. This giraffe here shared too many similar genes with other giraffes at the zoo. This killing sparked a social media outrage. There was an online petition. I want to you listen to this. This veterinarian explaining to the audience what has just happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADS BERTELSEN, VETERINARIAN (through translation): This giraffe walked out at quarter past 9. It was let out into its yard over there then there was a zookeeper with some rye bread. It really likes rye bread and he said here you go. Here is some rye bread. I stood behind with a rifle and when he put his head forward and ate the rye bread, I shot him through the brain. It sounds violent, but it means that Maris had no idea of what was coming. He got his bread then he died. I think it's very important. It's about how this has taken place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Bengt Holst is the specific director at the Copenhagen Zoo. He joins me now. First, let me begin with how the zoo killed this giraffe. Shot it instead of lethal injection, tell me why?
BENGT HOLST, SCIENTIFIC DIRECTOR, COPENHAGEN ZOO: If we shoot it we can feed it to the carnivores afterwards. If we do it with an injection, we cannot feed it to anybody. We have to dispose of the meat or throw it away. That would be crazy.
BALDWIN: But the choice to then pull out this massive knife and cut it up piece by piece and feed it to the lions in front of children. Why do that?
HOLST: Because I think it's important that we educate our kids and the adults also. We have to do this anyway. We can't keep it in the closed zoo. That's to invite people to see this autopsy and to explain what they see. All we know it's the water inside. The heart is huge. The blood up to the head two meters up. You can educate and tell this to the people and it's fascinating. It's not by accident the people came by. They were invited to go behind the scenes. They wanted to see this carried out.
HOLST: I know this was voluntary and there was interest. Obviously, the kids' parents wanted them to be there. I understand you say educational, but I was listening to this interview on this network earlier today with one of the most respected wildlife experts in this country, Jack Hannah. He does not agree. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO (via telephone): I'm a pretty fun going person, you see me do TV, but this right now is the most abominable, insensitive, ridiculous thing I have heard of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Abominable, sir, and insensitive. I know you know about the outrage, respond to that and help me understand what exactly you are teaching these kids as they are watching pieces of a giraffe being eaten.
HOLST: Well, first I must say, this is what the kids see that drag their parents to this place, this unique opportunity to show the giraffe inside. When will they be able to show this? It's not bad to show kids how the real nature s. They will be careful not make nature introduce that here. They always read, et cetera, et cetera. This is the real thing. When we then feed it to the lion after afterwards, this is with a horse or a cow. They have to get the meat. Now we can feed them a giraffe. I don't see any problem with it. This is happening as well. The kids need to see what the real world is. It's not harmful. It's what they need to know about.
BALDWIN: It was the real world indeed. Bengt Holst with the Copenhagen Zoo, thank you so much, sir, for explaining the zoo's perspective. I appreciate it. I am curious to all of you watching, do you feel this is educational or inhumane? Send me a tweet @brookbcnn. Let's get back to the first-degree murder trial in Jacksonville, Florida. Take a listen again. This is the father of the victim taking the stand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Davis, were you able to make out any clear statements about what had happened?
DAVIS: The reason I couldn't is because of my devastation. I couldn't make out. I just knew that the boys were just so sorry that my son was killed. They were trying to console me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Davis, just briefly, to what was his demeanor like.
DAVIS: He was crying also. He usually has a big smile on his face. He was just crying, just crying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then finally, Mr. Davis, what was Tommy's demeanor like when he was at the house that day?
DAVIS: I don't recall Tommy coming the same day for some reason. I don't recall it. He could have been there, but I don't recall it. I do recall him later on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your Honor, I have no further questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything further? You may be excused.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Davis. Take a seat, next witness.
BALDWIN: All right, quick break. The big question, will Michael Dunn himself take the stand? We'll be right back.
BALDWIN: I want to take you back to this first degree murder trial underway in Jacksonville, Florida, the man you are looking at here. This is 24-year-old Chris Dunn. This is the son of the defendant, son of the man who is on trial for murder. Chris Dunn is describing his wedding and this was the wedding that his father had just attended before all of this happened before his father shot and killed 17-year- old Jordan Davis. Take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- your father?
CHRIS DUNN, DEFENDANT'S SON: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who is the lovely lady?
DUNN: That's my mom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that is your biological mom and dad?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are exes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is that relationship between your father and your mother?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustained.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there anger or animosity?
DUNN: No. They were getting along fine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your parents have been divorced for a long time?
DUNN: Yes, they have. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At any time did you see your dad pounding alcohol or drinking out of control?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have conversations with your father that day?
DUNN: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that before alcohol was served at the wedding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have conversations with your father after alcohol was served?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you notice any change in his speech? Was he slurring or anything like that?
DUNN: No, not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have a strong odor of alcohol on his breath?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bloodshot or watery eyes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have concerns about your father being impaired?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he embarrass you because he was drunk or anything?
DUNN: No. None at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your father leave?
DUNN: No. He didn't leave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I meant to go home. At what point did your dad say goodbye at your wedding to leave?
DUNN: We made plans to meet up the day after.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was with his fiance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And your new bride?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that in St. Augustine?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't give me your, but where do you live? Do you live here in Jacksonville?
DUNN: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so you to go there was not that far?
DUNN: No, it's not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did your dad appear to be happy when he left that evening?
DUNN: Yes, he seemed to in a very good mood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he leave upset because of the type of music you were playing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he upset at any of the guests that you had invited?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have concern about your dad driving away from the wedding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you did, would you have told him not to or called a cab?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State's 34, please. Is that extended family?
DUNN: That's sister and my grandmother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I want to the far right, is that also your grandmother, your mom's mother?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I have defense 35, please? Is that just a close up of other people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously even with a distant relationship with your dad, you included it with family photos and photos of the wedding party and friends. Is that an accurate representation? Is that a picture of the entire wedding party?
DUNN: That's all family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That are doesn't include friends?
DUNN: That was an all family photo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any animosity with family there because Michael was at your wedding?
DUNN: None at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing further.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Dunn, how many times had you seen your father, Michael Dunn in the last 15 years prior to your wedding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, irrelevance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overruled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times have seen your father, Michael Dunn, in the last 15 years prior to your wedding?
DUNN: Three times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three times, total?
DUNN: Yes, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it fair to say you didn't know your father very well?
DUNN: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Dunn, you were the groom so you weren't with your father every minute of the wedding and the reception, were you?
DUNN: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did your father have your telephone number?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Miss Rouer?
DUNN: Yes, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you be willing to take a phone call from either saying between 8:00 p.m. the night of your wedding and midnight to take care of their dog if there was a kind of an emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm asking what he would have been willing to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overruled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Had you received a phone call from your father letting you know there had been an emergency and the dog had to be taken care of. Would you have taken care of their puppy, Charlie?
DUNN: Yes, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were there other people at the wedding who would have done the same?
DUNN: I can't speak for anybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, did you receive phone calls from your father or Rhonda asking to you assist them between the hours of 8:00 and midnight?
DUNN: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 8:00?
DUNN: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about between the hours of 8:00 and noon? Any phone calls from your father or Rhonda Rouer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Nothing further, very briefly. Mr. Dunn, was that the first time you had met rhonda at your wedding?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you know her and know anything about her other than what you met that night?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May he be excused?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, you are excused.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next witness.
BALDIWN: Quickly, that was Michael Dunn's son. He had only seen his father three times in the last 15 years. The day his father shot and killed 17-year-old Jordan Davis, but that was a little bit about the color at the wedding and whether or not his father could have been drinking too much and ntoxicated. We are following this first-degree murder trial out of Florida, keeping a close eye on it. We want to talk about Hillary Clinton. It turns out Hillary Clinton had choice words for Monica Lewinsky after learning her husband, President Clinton had had an affair with the White House intern. According to notes taken by a close personal friend, the first lady called Monica Lewinsky a loony toon. She also assigned some of the blame for what happened to herself.
We will talk about this with a reporter from the "Washington Free Beacon and Gloria Borger. Alana, to you first. This is all coming from the notes from this woman by the name of Diane Blair. Let me begin there. Alana, who was Diane Blair and how did you find yourself in Arkansas flipping through her papers?
ALANA GOODMAN, "WASHINGTON FREE BEACON": Diane Blair was a very close friend of Hillary Clinton. She called her one of her closest friends from the 1970s until when Diane passed away in 2000. Jake Tapper wrote about this existence of an archive of player's files which included accounts of contemporaneous conversations with Hillary Clinton, letters and memos and things. They reported on this in 2007.
It is not open to the public at the time. I went back and checked to see if it was open and saw it opened in 2010 and went down to Arkansas. Honestly didn't think there would be much there. I feel like so much of the Clintons' especially 1990 stuff has been picked over by reporters, but went down and surprisingly there were interesting things there.
BALDWIN: Surprise, surprise. Gloria Borger, you remember the Lewinsky scandal well.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I do, 16 years ago.
BALDWIN: Let me quote from the papers here. We have the fact that Hillary is not trying to excuse Bill over the huge personal lapse. She is not taking responsibility for it. Then we have this. Hillary thinks she was not smart enough or sensitive enough or free enough of his own concerns to realize the price Bill Clinton was playing. Does that surprise you that Hillary Clinton took some of the blame herself?
BORGER: I find it interesting as a woman. First of all, Hillary Clinton was shouldering the blame for some of this herself. I think that's what women do. I think when you look at how Hillary Clinton defended her husband after the Lewinsky mess where she was talking about the right wing conspiracy, it makes sense that she was privately saying you know what, I didn't realize the toll his detractors were taking on him. That may be part of the reason she came out swinging after all of this. I think it explains a little bit more about what she was feeling at the time. Do I find any of this surprising? Not really.
BALDWIN: OK, we are talking about also because we are hearing Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky's names thrown around in part because of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: Anybody who wants to take money from Bill Clinton or have a fundraiser has a lot of explaining to do. I think they should give the money back. If they want to take a position on women's rights, by all means do, but you can't do it and take it from a guy who was using his position of authority to take advantage of young women in the workplace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Listen, it's no secret, Kentucky Senator Rand Paul thinking maybe about a presidential run and perhaps against Hillary Clinton. Why is he talking specifically, Gloria, about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky here?
BORGER: Well, I talked to somebody close to Rand Paul and the explanation is pretty simple. Number one, they look at Bill and Hillary Clinton as a team. They understand how effective he is not only as a partisan for Hillary Clinton, but a Democratic fundraiser. They want their brand to be somebody who can go directly at the Clintons and that's a plural. You are trying to distinguish yourself as a presidential field and play to the base of the party, from their point of view it's good politics. This is playing with a base of the party, which doesn't like the Clintons at all.
BALDWIN: Alana so back to this cash of papers you discovered, things that Jack Tapper's reporting some years ago. You go out there and what else did you find?
GOODMAN: Well, I thought one of the most interesting things that we found was the conversation between Blair and Hillary on Monica Lewinsky, which happened just days after President Clinton had admitted to the affair. It's interesting because there are so few accounts of what Hillary was thinking. It was a very difficult time for her. She was doing a lot of thinking about it and had to make hard choices.
How candid she is talking about Monica. Narcissistic loony toon is the word that Diane quotes her to describe Monica defending Bill and all of that. I thought that was very interesting.
BALDWIN: Alana Goodman, I guess you are glad you hopped on a plane and found what you did. Alana, thank you so much. Gloria Borger, as always, thank you.
GOODMAN: Sure, you bet.