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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Seven Injured in Ceiling Collapse; Phil Robertson on Hiatus Indefinitely; Pastor Defrocked for Supporting Gay Son; Killed by Dr. Death?; Target Customers Hacked
Aired December 19, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Anderson, 76 people injured so far we're told switch of them seriously injured taken away by paramedics on the scene within minutes. The fire service spokesman said that a 30 foot by 30 foot section of the ceiling in this more than 100 year old theater collapsed on the audience below.
Eyewitness we told you said they were injured about the first 40 minutes of the performance. The theater was dark. Then there was sort of an indication of people starting to react to something. They thought it was part of the performance. Then they said there was a cracking, a creaking sound from the ceiling. The ceiling began to bend and gave way showers plaster and wood work down on the audience below. People got out relatively quickly. Ushers they say opened the doors for them. People helping those sitting next to them to get out.
We're told by the eyewitness, that as they were inside the theater, they were then helped out into a neighboring theater where they were given medical assistance (INAUDIBLE) wounded and were then able to leave the area, but some of the people treated on site for up to about two hours before they were taken away in ambulances.
Right now, the fire service appeared to have secured the building, though, the traffic is now restarted on the street outside the Apollo Theater. But firefighters are starting they will work into tomorrow to try ascertain what happened and ensure the building is safe for people to get back into and make whatever repairs are necessary -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Nick, thanks very much.
Now Duck Dynasty, which is a reality show, that which means it bare only a glancing resemblance to actually reality. Duck dynasty, unlike actually reality, is a carefully produce, semi-scripted, heavily promoted on package, entertainment vehicle. In such the real people in it are not quite themselves when they are on the screen. Instead, they play carefully produced versions of themselves, sometimes hyped up, sometimes toned down, always edited, always marketed.
So, when Phil Robertson, the star of the show, said what he said to GQ magazine about gays and African-Americans and non-Christian religions, it was not the reality show Phil Robertson talking, it was presumably the real Phil Robertson which moved the network to suspend him and launched a new (INAUDIBLE), no doubt, in the culture wars. The question tonight, is any of this worth fighting over? One thing is clear on A&E, the fight is worth millions.
COOPER (voice-over): In 2012, this Louisiana family made their debut on A&E. "Duck Dynasty" is a reality show about the Robertson's Westmont Road, Louisiana made a fortune in products for duck hunters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty years ago my father, Phil Robertson, invented a revolutionary kind of duck caller that changed the duck industry our life forever.
COOPER: The patriarch and star of the show, Phil Robertson.
PHIL ROBERTSON, STAR, DUCK DYNASTY: My happiness is killing things.
COOPER: Robertson is plain spoken religious traditional sort of guy.
ROBERTSON: Here is the deal, cell phones, not for me. Texting I'm like no, shut it down, turn it off.
COOPER: And the four seasons the show has been on the air, he's never been afraid to express your opinion.
ROBERTSON: If your wife cooks better than your mama, you got one.
COOPER: It's that unfiltered opinion that makes "Duck Dynasty" the most-watched reality program on cable.
ROBERTSON: Kids in America today are fat, lazy.
COOPER: But it is what Robertson said off camera that has landed him in hot water.
In the January issue of "GQ" magazine, describing what he find sinful, he said quote "start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and those men." He also told "GQ" quote "neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanders, swindlers, they won't inherit the kingdom of God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must be Phil?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm what's left.
COOPER: A&E suspended Robertson after the article came out saying quote, "his personal views in no way reflect those A&E Networks, who have always been strong supports and champions of the LGBT community."
The network placed Phil under hiatus in filming indefinitely.
Robertson's comments on homosexuality were not the only ones raising some eyebrows. Robertson also talked about his upbringing in the south before the civil rights era and told "GQ" quote "I never with my eyes saw the mistreatment of any black person, not once," he told "GQ." He also said about African-Americans pre-entitlement, pre- welfare you say, were they happy? They were Godly. They were happy. No one was singing the blues.
The NAACP and human rights campaign wrote a joint letter to A&E expressing outrage over his remarks. But Robertson has plenty of defenders.
Sarah Palin who spent time with the Robertsons blasted A&E's suspension calling it a free speech issue on her facebook page. And Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal issued a statement calling Robertson family quote "great citizens." A change.org petition to bring Phil Robertson back to the show has more than 19,000 signatures so far.
ROBERTSON: Women are like lab retrievers they have quirks. But you stay married to one 45, 50 years, you learn to grow with the quirks.
COOPER: "Duck Dynasty" has grown into a retail empire worth an estimated $400 million. And though A&E said he is now on hiatus, it's not clear if he'll appear in a premiere episode in season five which is less than a month away.
COOPER: Because Phil Robertson weighed in on a wide-range sexual, racial and religious themes, there is a lot to talk about with our panel.
Dan Savage, social pundit, editor, author of "American Savage." He writes the syndicated device columnist, "Salvage Love." Also on the left and right respectfully, "New York Times" op-ed columnist Charles blow and Ross Douthat.
Dan, are you -- should this guy have been taken off the air by A&E?
DAN SAVAGE, AUTHOR, AMERICAN SAVAGE: Am I allowed to not have an opinion about that?
SAVAGE: That was a decision that A&E made. I looked at his comments today. And most of the outrage seems to be about the comments he made about gay people which are really reductive. What he is saying is because gay sex icks him out, he doesn't think that gay people are entitled to equal rights.
And I will say when people write about it or make that point, well, I'm grossed out by straight sex. I'm gay, I think straight sex is really icky. (INAUDIBLE) supports the full civil equality of heterosexuals. I think we should be able to marry and adopt and have children. And straight people can't get past that to this icks quick factor means they can support. So. I actually thought we said about African-Americans in the south under Jim Crow was so much more offensive.
COOPER: That they have sensed though they were happy, never heard them complaining --
SAVAGE: Right. At a time when an African-American looked funny in to a white person they could be lynched. Oddly enough, you never heard any of them complaining to him about those circumstance.
COOPER: So for you, those were the comments which you thought were more controversial.
SAVAGE: Much more offensive. But, you know, this is America and sex is always what we would rather be talking about than race or anything else. So, the fact that he invoked gay people's rear ends, means that will be the conversation instead of the really patently offensive, absurdly when you start these things he said about African-Americans.
COOPER: Charles Blow, should he been suspended?
CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, he's a media figure working for the media company. I think the media company always has the right to do whatever they want to. He has the right to say what he wants to say. Nobody is saying go out and arrest him, he's broken a law. He has not. He has a right to say what he wants to say.
But the media company has a right to say does what this person say align with our values, with our brand, with our audience? And if it does not and it is very likely written to his contract somewhere, if it does not, we have the right to no longer air you on our network, and that is what they have done. They have a right to do that.
What I find strange, though, is that people don't -- do have opinions about when somebody should be taken off the air and when they should not, and they are not very consistent. You know, you had Martin (INAUDIBLE) say something really horrible about Sarah Palin and everybody on the right was saying this guy has to go.
All of it, you know, is not a free speech issue. He shouldn't be able to say that and stay on the air. All of a sudden, this guy in the entertainment vehicle says something that is very offensive about a lot of different things, homophobic, racially intensive, offensive against religions and the same corner of the kind of the kind of ideological spectrum is saying this is a free speech issue.
I think you have to say at some point, be consistent about it. I don't have think the media company, do whatever you're going to do. Sometimes they let people stay on, sometimes they let people apologize, sometimes they just lay low and take them off and let it, it will blow over. Do whatever you're going to do, I don't care.
But if you're going to be out in a public setting, I have an opinion about it and charging and waiting for somebody to be taken off the air, you have to be consistent about that, and I don't think that's happening.
COOPER: I was interested on the comments on gay people got more attention than the attention on African-Americans and his belief under Jim Crow laws, they were happy and not singing the blues. BLOW: I was interested in that, too, because I didn't know about it. Somebody tweeted to me that the homophobic stuff and I assumed that was the whole --
COOPER: The things he said on gays and lesbians are not different than what is preached -- I mean, it's -- you know, religious believes held by many people. Just because somebody has --
ROSS DOUTHAT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think --
COOPER: Should they be taken off the air?
DOUTHAT: This is the ambiguity here, it is that it's a little bit unclear what A&E is suspending him for, punishing him for, et cetera. Because if you look what he said about gay people, it's a mix of course and I think offensive comments about genitals and rear ends mixed in with some fairly sort of boilerplate queasy paraphrase' of the New Testament about sexual sin, being anything from, you know, homosexual sex to adultery and so on.
And so, I think there are a lot of Christians who are leaping to his defense feeling this is a case where essentially A&E is saying -- and I think this is something that's becoming a fairly common opinion, actually in our culture, that traditional Christian doctrine and traditional Jewish doctrine on this question is (INAUDIBLE) and doesn't deserve a place in the public dialogue.
I would also say, though, that I think the issue for A&E here, and I completely agree they are a private company and can do what they want, but there is a layer of sort of corporate hypocrisy here where yes, of course, it's a reality show and therefore it is scripted and we all know it's not really real. But the whole free song of this show, the whole appeal is hey, let's look at these fascinating, slightly cooky, red neck Christians from Louisiana and see what they are like.
And for the network to profit so handsomely off this sort of window into self-proclaimed red neck in Louisiana and then act all sort of highest and offended when guess what, they turn out to say the things you might expect, you know, self-proclaimed red necks from Louisiana to say is ridiculous. And you know, you will note that "Duck Dynasty" is airing on reruns on A&E all weekend. I think if they actually -- if they wanted to make a stand on principle here, then, they should probably cancel the show, which I suspect they are not actually going to do.
COOPER: We'll have to take a short break. We are going to continue the conversation right after the break.
And later, what you can do if you swiped your card at target and a hacker swiped your numbers. We will answer your question about the massive data theft coming up.
COOPER: Welcome back, we're talking about the "Duck Dynasty" controversy with Dan Savage, Charles Blow and Ross Douthat. SAVAGE: Just compare, the sin of gays like any gay sexual expression at all to adultery, which is a form of heterosexual expression as a symbol according to the Old Testament. He compared it to bestiality, compared it to dog rape, to somebody raping an animal, and that is increasingly un-permissible, I think, in the public discourse, especially when so many people who want to make those analogies and lean on the testament, lean on nothing else in the Old Testament or the New Testament that anyway restricts heterosexual sexual expresses. The Old Testament says if your daughter is not a virgin on her wedding night you have to stone her to death, period, the end.
COOPER: If your child talks back to your parents --
SAVAGE: And sexual prescriptions and ignore the same people that invoke the same sexual prescriptions in the bible ignore out of hand, dismiss out of hand when they apply to heterosexuals. So, it is not that it is impermissible talk about biblical sexual morality. But what is increasing impermissible is that kind of hypocrisy and selective reading of both Old and New Testament.
DOUTHAT: And I would say that I agree with Dan that the comments about bestiality and the sort of gross explicit sexual talk are things I don't think Christians should be defending. And I don't think sort religious people should get in a situation where any time anybody says something obnoxious or nasty about gay people and gets jump on, that Christian should spring to their defense just because, you know, it is sort of you have to take the side of the persecuted Christian and the culture wars.
By the same token, though, there is a kind of sort of selective attitude, I think, here in the media, in corporate America, in a lead circle, where it's like, you know, we love these "Duck Dynasty" guys, you know, we love them, they are so corky and fascinated and so on by just, you know, keep your Christian faith nicely off stage and so on. And that, I think, --
SAVAGE: Keep your bigotry and hypocrisy off stage is the point.
DOUTHAT: But I think the question, Dan, is, you know, setting aside the specific comparisons to bestiality and the issues of stoning in the Old Testament and so on, those things in Christian doctrine, you know, the ideas that the whole law doesn't apply in the present day. But the prohibition on sex outside metro sexual marriage remain and that's going to remain a feature of Christian teaching for most conservative teachings in a society that has become more taller than homosexuality abroad.
SAVAGE: Lie you just said that Christians have a problem with sex outside of heterosexual absence sex. God Bless marriage. And yet 95 percent of people are not virgins on their wedding nights.
SAVAGE: Christians don't go to the mattresses about that despite Jesus is, in his own words, only prescriptions really talked about marriage and family, never talked about gay sex. He explicitly said that divorce is a sin -- there is no movement --
DOUTHAT: That's absolutely true but in defense --
SAVAGE: To ban divorce, rewrite constitutions to ban it --
DOUTHAT: First of all, there is actually a divorce reform movement in conservative Christian circles, it just doesn't have a lot of political influence. Second, I just point out that I think if you look at Robertson's quotations he specifically says in other interviews and in follow up places, I was a sexual sinner, too, in my youth. I'm not, I mean, I think the idea that no Christian ever talks about, you know, what is wrong with heterosexual premarital sex seems to be a little bit of an exaggeration.
COOPER: We'll see how long it lasts. This show is still on the air so for their talk of, you know, a hiatus. To me, I mean, you know, I was annoyed by Alec Baldwin using the F word and, you know, and then lying about it afterward. For some reason, this doesn't really surprise me or offend me particularly. I don't think that all people have to have the same thought and have to agree with or have to like gay people, as long as they are not passing laws against them.
BLOW: When I was reading -- we were present at the interview so you can't pick up the subtitles. But I was in the meeting, he didn't come across as if malicious. He didn't sound like he was saying something to be in order to be malicious. But you don't have to be malicious to do harm.
And the second part of that was that there is staggering about an ignorance in what he is saying in that interview, particularly as they have been saying before about his relationship to African-Americans in that part of the world, I mean, I grew up -- they are in there West Monroe. I grew up an hour away from there. I'm from the same part of Louisiana.
The idea that you can say you have lived how it many ever decades you have lived on this planet and say you have never seen African- Americans treated in any way that was bad or I'm paraphrasing him now or that to suggest that black people were happier and never singing the blues during Jim Crow but only happened after the fact it is just is a staggering amount of ignorance for someone to display. That doesn't mean he doesn't have to right to say it but my God --
SAVAGE: This is what the right ones do. They want to redefine free speech saying we have a right to opinions but you don't have a right to an opinion about our opinion. And if you attempt to engage or argue with us about our opinions, when our heads about our reruns, then we are going to seat and you're violating speech rights or spot control. No, you have a right to my opinion --
DOUTHAT: Dan, have I -- as representing the right here, have I said anything like that in this conversation?
SAVAGE: Let's get Sarah Palin on the air and she'll say exactly that. DOUTHAT: Well, fine. If you want to have arguments about Sarah Palin about serious issues, then I'll just get Martin Bashir on the air --
COOPER: I don't want to do that. I actually like having you on, Ross, on the air. I enjoy your take on things.
SAVAGE: But Ross, you can't deny that there is a large part of the right that essentially made that argument. That I have a right and when you argue with me, you somehow violating my free speech rights by employing the free speech rights of your own to --
DOUTHAT: I just don't see that as a problem that's in any way unique to the right wing. I would say to return to where Anderson and everybody started this conversation, I think in general, whether it's Bashir or the "Duck Dynasty" guy or anyone else, the habit of saying that, you know, when people say something offense sieve, they shouldn't just apologize but we need to banish them from whatever shows they are on and so on, is unhealthy habit. And it is unhealthy whether it's conservatives demanding it or whether it is liberal or corporate issues --
SAVAGE: So, do you think Bashir should still be on MSNBC?
DOUTHAT: I wasn't a fan of his show, so I'm not sorry he is gone. But I don't think he needed absolutely to resign. I think there is a lot to be said of people apologizing and moving on with their careers.
COOPER: I would say there is a difference between a news anchor who is representing your network, and a guy whose on a show that happens to be on your network. I mean, this is a guy on a reality show --
SAVAGE: A reality show --
COOPER: All about different walks of life --
BLOW: I don't know if there is a huge difference. I think that's the business they are in. I mean, MSNBC was in the news business. But A&E is in the entertainment business. This is an entertainer as a part of your brand. It -- with all of these media companies, these are brands and you're extending that by allowing whom over on your network to be on that network. And you can pull somebody in or let them go at any moment. That's part of it.
SAVAGE: The daggers who have that terrible show how many babies that woman can have in one lifetime, they are socially conservative Christians. One of their kids works in the family research council and highly place position, they are against gay marriage and against gay sex because they think it is sinful. No one is calling for that show to be pulled off the air, nor should anyone, nor would I support that.
DOUTHAT: But at the same time, you do -- I mean, so much of reality television is built around exploitation of sex, violence and absolutely terrible people. And I think one thing that you see in the reaction from Christians and conservatives rallying around this guy is not so much defense in saying, you know, everything he says that I particularly agree about the racial comments, that everything he said was, you know, reasonable and I think he should apologize for some of the things he said. But at the same time, in an industry that is built on exploitation at so many level, to single out this one guy for sort of, you know, suspension and so forth just seems a little bit silly.
BLOW: It is not that one guy, the big brother house, they had a bunch of people saying homophobic and racist things and as soon as they got off the show, they lost their jobs. This happens, it's not just this one guy. People don't like to be associated with people who are homophobic or racist.
DOUTHAT: I guess I'm making a broader point, which is that homophobic comments are treated differently from -- I mean, sexist comments, you know, the people that Seth McFarland can go from hosting the Oscars to, you know, making movies that make racial and sexual jokes and so on and the particular focus on sort of what is wrong with backwoods conservatives Christians, in this case, just seems again, there is a broader spectrum of offensiveness out there that doesn't necessarily get touched.
COOPER: All right, Ross Douthat, Dan Savage, Charles Blow, thanks very much.
Next, reaction from a pastor who was defrocked today for officiating his gay son's marriage.
COOPER: The controversy over "Duck Dynasty" is really in the end is about a reality show takes place though against a backdrop of true reality.
Today, that reality includes the defrocking of United Methodist pastor. My next guest, Frank Schaffer. Pastor Schaeffer pay the prize for officiating a same sex wedding, his son's wedding. Frank Schaeffer joins us now.
Pastor, appreciate you being with us. Before we talk about the specifics of what has happened to you about being defrocked, I do want to ask you about your thoughts on this whole "Duck Dynasty" controversy, about the statements that were made, the suspension, what do you make of it?
FRANK SCHAEFFER, DEFROCKED UNITED METHODIST PASTOR: I am very, very disappointed at statements like this in general because they really are uninformed. Here you have some people that are lay people that really don't do a lot of research in terms of how to understand the scripture's right and interpret them, making statements that are so harmful and hurtful and to the LGBT community, and it's just outrageous.
COOPER: It's interesting, though, I mean, there are plenty of passages that one can point to in the bible, which support those who say look, you know, the bible does not approve of homosexuality. In fact, you know, it's described as being an abomination in one text. There are plenty of passages, which, you know, also say that a child who curses their parents should be put to death or prohibit eating shellfish or wearing different kinds of fabric. There is a verse that says adulterers should be put to death. Why do you think those passages are kind of glossed over, it's often the passages on homosexuality or on same sex, on homosexuality that are focused on?
SCHAEFFER: In my book, this is an agenda people have because they certainly do not believe any longer that the earth is flat, which is also biblical in the old testament, but they pick and choose what they feel is still relevant out of those passages and it really shows their agenda.
And let me just add to that that in my studies, what I've discovered is that really none of the passages that talk about homosexuality or the touch on homosexuality really are about committed, loving, homosexual relationships. They are always cast inappropriate behavior. You know, for instance, the passage that gets quoted a lot from (INAUDIBLE), here you clearly have a situation where we're dealing with rape, and not a committed loving homosexual relationship.
COOPER: It's interesting to me in how 100 years ago there were those who used the Bible to support their belief in slavery and could point to bible passages as being supportive of the notion of slavery.
Do you sort of see this in the same light that one's interpretation of the bible should change over time or is the written word the written word?
SCHAFER: Well, I believe that everything evolves. Today we know that homosexuality is not a choice, and so today we have different knowledge, and sometimes I think people don't realize that the bible itself contains a development of progressive revelation. I think that's a term that many theologians like here.
Progressive revelation. That means we get a more clear picture about the truth of what is -- you know, what God is trying to express in the bible, in the holy scriptures and of course, you know, the ultimate revelation of God's truth was embodied in Jesus Christ, we as Christians believe, and it's very significant to me that Jesus Christ never once mentioned homosexuality.
COOPER: As for your specific situation, you've now been defrocked for performing your own son's marriage to a man. You were asked to voluntarily relinquish your religious credentials, you said no. Now the United Methodist Church has thrown you out.
When you performed your son's wedding, did you -- did you think the road would end up here with you being no longer a pastor in the Methodist church?
SCHAFER: I certainly did not. I did it out of love for my son. It was an act of love and especially in his case where he had in the past struggled with his sexual orientation to a point where he was considering suicide. I thought for sure that the church would recognize that this was an act of love and that I would receive leniency.
Besides I actually reported my intention to perform this wedding to my bishop and my district superintendent and also afterwards, after I did it, I let them know that in writing again that I actually performed this wedding. I never heard a peep from them until a complaint was filed earlier this year.
COOPER: So for you what happens now? Will you continue to speak out? Will you continue to minister?
SCHAFER: Oh, absolutely. I tell you what, Anderson, I'm so blessed in some ways to be able to continue to share my story and share my message of inclusiveness and of love because I've been invited to so many different venues and invited by so many different churches to speak, and I'm just honored that now I actually have a much larger parish than my little country parish that I was preaching at before.
COOPER: Pastor Frank Schafer, thanks very much.
Just ahead, a 360 exclusive, a doctor who's considered a leading expert in treating pain safely, he is now under investigation by the feds after the deaths of multiple patients at his clinic.
COOPER: A 360 exclusive. A chilling window onto an epidemic we've been reporting on for years. A surge in deaths from prescription pain killers. Prescriptions, of course, don't write themselves. Doctors do. And tonight the Drug Enforcement Agency is investigating a Utah doctor who on paper sounds like a paragon of accomplishment.
He's an anesthesiologist and pain medicine specialist who's considered a leading expert on how to safely prescribe powerful painkillers including of opioids. But now he and his staff are facing a string of lawsuit after the deaths of multiple patients at this clinic. The accusations against him are stunning, but he still has his prescription pad.
Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): You don't want to answer questions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
GUPTA (voice-over): Why is this man, Dr. Lynn Webster, walking away from our cameras, refusing to answer our questions?
Webster is considered a leader in the field of pain management. He's president of the American Academy of Pain Medicine.
DR. LYNN WEBSTER, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PAIN MEDICINE: We've got over 100 million Americans who are experiencing chronic pain. GUPTA: He's the author of a scoring system used by doctors to distinguish painkiller addicts from legitimate patients. And he's the founder of this pain clinic in Salt Lake City.
(On camera): What is his reputation?
DR. ANDREW KOLODNY, PHYSICIANS FOR RESPONSIBLE OPIOID PRESCRIBING: His methods are incorporated into almost every single educational program about prescribing opioids and even accepted by the FDA.
GUPTA: But if you start to ask around a bit you'll learn that his reputation amongst some former patients and their families is astonishingly different.
ROY BOSLEY, HUSBAND OF DECEASED PATIENT TREATED BY WEBSTER: His reputation is he's known as Dr. Death.
GUPTA (on camera): He's known as Dr. Death?
GUPTA: That's how your wife's doctor was described?
BOSLEY: Dr. Death.
GUPTA (voice-over): Multiple overdose deaths at the Lifetree Pain Clinic, which Webster ran for more than a decade, now hover over him.
BOSLEY: He went unconscious.
GUPTA: There are allegations of irresponsible prescribing practices and in the case of one patient, influencing what was written as the cause of death.
BOSLEY: Here's the interesting part.
GUPTA: Roy Bosley's wife Carol Ann first went to the Lifetree Pain Clinic in 2008. Years earlier her car had been broadsided.
BOSLEY: She did not have the seatbelt fastened and went through the windshield.
GUPTA: After several operations on her spine, she managed her pain with low doses of painkillers.
(On camera): She's still functioning, doing what she needs to do?
BOSLEY: Yes. Yes.
GUPTA (voice-over): But that would soon change when a friend suggested Carol Ann go to the Lifetree Clinic. Within a few weeks of becoming a patient --
BOSLEY: Carol Ann was pretty much hooked.
GUPTA (on camera): When you say hooked, you mean? BOSLEY: She was hooked on the pain medicine. She needed it.
GUPTA (voice-over): This is what Carol Ann was prescribed a year before her death, a painkiller and anxiety medication, between 100 and 120 pills a month. Now fast forward one year, she was prescribed seven different drugs, painkillers, anti-anxiety pills, anti- depressants, all told, about 600 pills per month. The same steep climb in medications allegedly was seen among other patients who died after getting care at Lifetree.
Like this case. Described in a medical malpractice claim recently filed against Webster and Lifetree. A 42-year-old who is prescribed about 200 pills a month when she first started at Lifetree. That's a little more than six pills a day. Seven years later, just before she died of an overdose, she was taking 1,158 pills per month, or about 40 each day.
At the Bosley home, a sad spectacle filled with denial and overdoses began unfolding.
BOSLEY: There were numerous times that we ended up in the emergency room for fear that she was going to die.
GUPTA: Bosley said he would regularly return home from work with Carol Ann unconscious and barely breathing.
(On camera): You took pictures of your wife essentially unconscious.
GUPTA: Must have been a hard thing to do.
BOSLEY: Very hard.
GUPTA (voice-over): Bosley says he tried to show the photos to Dr. Webster and other staff members and he tried calling the clinic to vent his concerns. He was shut down, with staff citing patient privacy or HIPAA.
(On camera): You weren't so much as asking for information as you wanted to provide it.
BOSLEY: I said, I am not asking for information. And I was given the HIPAA excuse and that was the end of it.
GUPTA (voice-over): So what does Dr. Webster have to say about the claims against him and his clinic? Well, despite our best efforts, not much. He did, however, respond to lawsuits filed against him and his clinic and denied responsibility for the deaths. We called the spokesperson.
(On camera): We certainly want to give him an opportunity to comment and to respond to some of this.
(Voice-over): But he declined our interview. So we decided to go straight to him. (On camera): Dr. Webster? Sanjay Gupta with CNN. And I wearing a microphone, I wonder if I could ask you a couple of questions? We've been trying to reach out to your team to --
WEBSTER: I've got an appointment right now.
GUPTA: Will you stop -- sit down and talk to us afterward?
WEBSTER: I've got an appointment right now. Thank you.
GUPTA: After the appointment, will you sit down and talk to us?
WEBSTER: I've got an appointment.
GUPTA: Can I walk with you? Are you walking to your appointment here? Will you answer a couple of questions for us?
GUPTA: You don't want to answer any questions?
GUPTA: OK, all right.
(Voice-over): We did get a statement ultimately. In it, Dr. Webster says the clinic treated difficult and complicated people with pain, with the highest standard of care. He went on to call the deaths a tragedy of the worst kind for patients to die not from a result of treatment but in spite of it.
BOSLEY: She was doing great. She was up to walking almost five miles a day.
GUPTA: Several months after starting at Lifetree, Carol Ann Bosley kicked the opioids and she went to rehab.
BOSLEY: She had lost weight. She was managing her pain on Tylenol. Only.
GUPTA: Soon afterward, he says, Carol Ann got a call.
BOSLEY: She said, Dr. Webster has requested that we come down -- both of us come down and meet with him.
GUPTA: To Roy Bosley's surprise, during the appointment, he says Webster suggested Carol Ann get back on narcotic painkillers.
BOSLEY: And my response to him was, my wife is addicted.
GUPTA: About a year after that appointment, after taking his advice, Carol Ann Bosley overdosed again. This time, it was fatal.
But Carol Ann's story does not end there. Weeks after her death, the medical examiner had ruled her death a suicide. BOSLEY: I said, why did you label it a suicide? And he says, well, I called Dr. Webster. He told me that she committed suicide. Why do you have to call Dr. Webster to get a diagnosis? Shouldn't the diagnosis be based on the evidence in front of you?
GUPTA: The Utah Medical Examiner's Office say that Webster didn't have any influence over Carol Ann's stated cause of death, which makes what happened next even more puzzling.
BOSLEY: Maybe five weeks later, I get a revised autopsy report. Cause of death, undetermined.
GUPTA (on camera): When it came back undetermined, was there an explanation? They just changed it?
(Voice-over): It's been four years since Carol Ann Bosley died. Her husband still wonders why his pleas for help to the staff at Lifetree and especially Lynn Webster fell on deaf ears.
(On camera): You blame Dr. Webster for your wife's death?
BOSLEY: I do. To this day, I regret that I did not go down there and find him. I would have pinned him to the wall, and I would have made him listen, and then I would have warned him with his life. Leave my wife alone.
COOPER: Well, Sanjay, I mean, it's clear Dr. Webster didn't want to talk to you. Is he saying anything about the allegations against him?
GUPTA: Well, you know, the allegations from the lawsuit specifically, he's denying all of those. Previously he has said, he has acknowledged that there were some 20 deaths at the Lifetree Clinic, though he says most of them were suicides.
We read you part of the statement during the piece there, that he had more of an official statement as well, where he basically said that the chronic pain overall has become this urgent national crisis and a direct and honest dialogue is not happening, and he goes on to say that we need safer therapies overall, and we should replace opioids ultimately.
But, Anderson, you saw some of the numbers, there are 600 pills a month, this particular woman --
GUPTA: She got down to just taking Tylenol and you can see the extreme in terms of what this patients are taking.
COOPER: How big of a problem is this really and what responsibilities do doctors have here?
GUPTA: Doctors, nurse practitioners, dentists. You know, look, we talk about this a lot as you mentioned. Eighty percent of the world's pain pills are taken in the United States. It's a startling number. And we know that for most -- for about a third of patients, only a third of patients, they actually work sort of initially. For two- thirds of patients they may not work at all.
And long term, after a few months it really seems to lose its effectiveness. What do patients do? Take more and more, start to combine it with other drugs, including alcohol, and that's often how these accidental deaths occur. But again, 80 percent of the world's pain meds in this country --
COOPER: That's incredible.
GUPTA: He's right about the fact that we need to have an honest dialogue regarding that.
COOPER: Sanjay, thanks very much.
Up next, hackers target Target, possibly affecting as many as 40 million shoppers who handed over their credit card or debit card at the busiest shopping time of the year. Find out if you are one of the victims.
And later, news that while she was dating Prince William, Kate Middleton's phone was hacked. We'll tell you who did it, coming up.
COOPER: Well, attention, Target shoppers, if you bought something there at Target between November 27th and December 15th and used your credit or debit card, the bad guys may have your number.
Hackers targeting Target and potentially as many as 40 million credit and debit card accounts, 40 million accounts nearly as many questions about what happened, how it happened, what you can do if you're one of the victims.
For more on all of that let's check in with chief business correspondent Christine Romans.
So if you used a debit or credit card at any Target between that time, November 27th and December 15th, you're possibly at risk?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you should consider yourself exposed. And here's the thing, this is not the holiday shopping story that Target wanted to be talking about. This is a huge major attack here.
It's those card readers that read the magnetic stripe, a strip, apparently, you know, those were targeted and all that information on your card when you swiped it from November 27th to December 15th, could be accessed by hackers who have the capability of making a counterfeit credit card with your information or worse, maybe a debit card.
Maybe they can go and access your ATM, get money. Debit card transactions much, much harder to get your money back than a credit card transaction.
COOPER: It's crazy. I mean, how this could have happened. This only applies, though, if you actually shopped physically in the store, not if you bought stuff online.
ROMANS: It's absolutely right. It was those readers -- those readers when you -- when you check out that you run your card through and this is what they got, the payment information, the date, the CVV, that's that three or four-digit code at the back, the expiration date, basically every single number that's important to your financial identity and your financial privacy was available.
COOPER: So what should you do if you're one of those people who shopped there during the time?
ROMANS: Well, the first thing you should do is check your credit card statements and your debit card activity. And some experts have been saying, you know, every week or so, I'm saying every single day.
ROMANS: Check every single day. Because, look, Target said in a statement when they admitted that this had happened that they have resolved the issue and they apologized for the inconvenience, but this was going on until the 15th, Anderson. Until Monday. So it's not resolved for any of the people that still don't know where their information is.
And we do know that in these hacker chatrooms, there is already this chatter and talk about how to access this information. So I think people should look very closely at their statements, and then call your bank and call Target, all of the major banks are aware and they're going to be looking for fraudulent activities.
So you should be on the lookout also for your bank to contact you if they see something.
COOPER: Do they know who did this?
ROMANS: Don't know who did it yet. You know, the Secret Service is investigating. That's the part of the Treasury Department that handles these sorts of crimes. So the federal government, all of the banks, Target, are working together. They have a forensics team trying to go back and figure out how this happened, Target says. But we don't know who did it yet. We know it's very say sophisticated. And we know they tapped into this kind of old technology, those magnetic strips are kind of old technology, tapping into that and just have a treasure trove, Anderson.
ROMANS: A treasure trove of your information.
COOPER: Incredible. All right. Christine thanks very much.
Let's get caught up on some of the other stories. Susan Hendricks has the "360 Bulletin" -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, President Obama has commuted the prison sentences of eight people convicted of cocaine offenses, calling them harsh sentences. One of them is the first cousin of Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick.
Reynolds Allen Winter Smith Jr. was given a life sentence for possession and intent to distribute cocaine. The White House says his family ties did not impact that decision.
Two men are found guilty of murdering a British soldier on the streets of London. One of the attackers last night was caught on video carrying a meat cleaver in his bloody hands ranting the killing was for British soldiers killing Muslims overseas. The victim, Lee Rigby, was hacked to death near his military barracks.
The attorney for the Indian diplomat arrested in New York and strip- searched on charges of visa fraud related to her treatment of her housekeeper is now speaking out. The attorney says the allegations are baseless and accuses U.S. authorities of mishandling the arrest.
And a British tabloid apparently hacked Kate Middleton's phone while she was dating Prince William. A prosecutor told a London court today in one voicemail William calls her future wife "baby kin." The report comes from the British Press Association which is following the trial of the former editors of the defunct "News of the World" newspaper who are accused of illegal phone hacking. They deny the charges -- Anderson.
COOPER: Susan, thanks.
We'll be right back.
COOPER: A programming note tonight. At 10:00 Eastern Robin Meade and I host the CNN special report, "EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE." It's going to tell the story of regular people, everyday people who suddenly became heroes this year like LaDonna Cobb, the teacher in Moore, Oklahoma, who saved her students from the deadly tornado.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LADONNA COBB, TEACHING ASSISTANT: Their tornado precaution is to put your hands over your head and get down on your hands and knees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I'm a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I'm like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing for my daughter? COBB: And I -- I am like this over the back of all of them, like I'm over her and I'm -- my arms are around as many kids that I can reach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you're not safe at all?
COBB: No, but that doesn't really cross my mind. At that point, I just wanted to put whatever I could between whatever was going to happen and those babies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, "EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE, don't miss it tonight 10:00 p.m. Eastern. I also interview Antoinette Tuff, you remember her? She's the remarkable woman who talked down a shooter at a school.
That does it for this edition of 360. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: This is PIERS MORGAN LIVE, welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.
Tonight, duck and cover. The war escalates over "Duck Dynasty." What Phil Robinson says about gays and indeed about blacks that worked in the cotton fields is outrageous. But should anybody really be surprised by his views? Is this about religion or about hate?
You know Star Jones will have an opinion on that. She's here tonight.
Plus the top 10 moments of 2013 on this show. From Bill Clinton's Bono --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, I'm Irish, you know. And we Irish we can imitate anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)