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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Rubio Takes On The President; Obamacare's True Price Tag; Sebelius Talks Exclusively To CNN; "Improving The Experience Every Day"; Killed Teacher Remembered As A Hero; Town Rallies For Teen Rape Victim; Abu Anas al-Libi May Need U.S. Taxpayers' Money; Apple Introduces iPad Air
Aired October 22, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST (voice-over): "OUTFRONT" next, Obama care under siege.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problems inherent in the way that the Web site operates are very significant.
BURNETT: A child's voice calling for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you please send police out here? There's a kid with a gun.
BURNETT: New details about the school shooting in Nevada.
And Apple's big gamble. The first look at the new iPad.
Let's go "OUTFRONT."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. "OUTFRONT" tonight, Marco Rubio takes on the president of the United States. Today, the Republican senator said he is going to introduce a bill to push back Obamacare. Right now the deadline to sign up or else face penalties is March 31st, but Rubio says it is not ready for primetime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: But the problems inherent in the way this web site operates are very significant and I think it is going to be very difficult to reverse this in a number of weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: The White House not budging, but it could be facing even more pressure as the real cost of Obamacare is now coming to light. Casey Wian with this OUTFRONT investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The state of Colorado wants everyone to know that even these bros can afford Obamacare. In a series of ads, everyday folks are shown with the tag line, thanks Obamacare. Kentucky's governor said 1,000 people a day are signing up for his state's version of the affordable care act.
GOVERNOR STEVE BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY: I'll guarantee you about a year from now they're going to look back at these critics including a lot of these senators and representatives and they are going to say you misled us because, this works, I've got affordable health care.
WIAN: People with pre-existing medical conditions or with incomes that qualify for government subsidies clearly benefit from Obamacare. But many others are paying more. A detail that some in Congress said the administration didn't make clear to the public as part of the program's failed web site launch.
Republicans on the congressional committee on Oversight and Government Reform sent this letter Monday to the Obama administration demanding answers. It reads in part, "We believe that the political decision to mask the sticker shock of Obamacare to the American people prevented contractors from using universally accepted best practices in the development and rollout of this massive government federal I.T. project. It is easy to see why chaos would likely ensue.
REP. DARRELL ISSA (R-CA), HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: The Affordable Care Act's web site, which now totals about $600 million probably costs twice as much and is not performing than it should if best practices and efficient system had been delivered.
WIAN: The White House says Republicans are twisting the facts. However the administration has made changes to the web site. In the past two days that now allow consumers to type in their county and state and get estimated price quotes as well as information about subsidies, something they couldn't do before without filling out an application.
JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are problems and they were problems that need to be addressed. We're improving the experience for consumers every day.
WIAN: The concern remains the price tag. The web site alone about $300 million. The overall cost, $1.4 trillion over 10 years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The goal is for all that spending to lead ultimately to lower health care costs and reduced budget deficits, but that depends on the performance of Obamacare. And Erin, so far it has been a really rough start.
BURNETT: A really rough start. All right, thank you very much, Casey Wian.
Now our second story, OUTFRONT, Kathleen Sebelius. The Health and Human Services secretary is under increasing pressure tonight. There is even a hash tag on Twitter about firing her, but she fighting back. She just sat down for her first interview since the Obamacare rollout fiasco with our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
The entire interview is going to air tonight in the 8:00 hour of CNN. Sanjay Gupta is going to be hosting "AC 360," but he is OUTFRONT now. Sanjay, how did Secretary Sebelius defend herself? She is getting arrows from every corner.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, there were a lot of things that you've heard before. First of all, I think she is very concerned. There is no question. I've talk to her many times over the years. This is as concerned as I've seen her. But she still often talks about the overall mission being what's driving everybody within HHS and even the White House.
I asked specifically, given all the concerns before the rollout, why did they continue to go forward? And did the president know about these problems before the rollout? And she said the president did not know. He was not brought into the loop ahead of October 1st. So pretty significant thing there because there were significant concerns from the insurance companies even within people in HHS and there had been a test of the system with a few hundred people and it crashed.
So there was a lot of concern. She also said, you know, we're now going to bring in the A-team to help move this thing forward. To which I obviously asked, why now are you bringing in the a-team? Something of this magnitude, why wasn't the A-team there before October 1st, way before October 1st to make sure things went smoothly?
She said well, yes, good point, but this is what we're doing now. So that's a little bit of it. It kept coming back to we'll get millions of people health care insurance and that is what is continuing to drive people here.
BURNETT: Well, pretty interesting admitting that they didn't have the A-team and also, it sounds like, just admitting that it crashed and failed and they just, did they launch with it a hope and a prayer? That won't happen again? I mean, that's --
GUPTA: I asked that. Why did not you delay? Given something of this magnitude, why did not you delay? Well, millions of people have been waiting for health insurance, which is something that you've been hearing for a long time. Would it have matter that much to wait another few weeks or even a month to make sure this thing was perfect? And again, it's not a really great answer to that.
I also asked something you were talking about, Erin. This idea that had she offered her resignation to the president, would she consider doing so or had the president asked for it? And the answers to all those questions were some variation of no. And it said, if that came to it, then that's not something she wanted to address right now. But that she was really talking about the mission moving forward in terms of getting people health care coverage.
BURNETT: Well, thank you very much, Sanjay. And of course, as we said, Sanjay is going to have that full interview. He is hosting the 8:00 hour here on CNN tonight. You'll be able to see his exclusive conversation with Kathleen Sebelius.
I want to bring in our panel now, Sean Spicer, communications director for the Republican National Committee and Brad Woodhouse, former communications director the Democratic National Committee. Great to have both of you with us.
Sean, let me start with you. You just heard what Sanjay said. Kathleen Sebelius standing by it saying, look, the program is good. Yes, we know we have problems, but we're bringing in the A-team now, which probably got you steaming as to why the A-team wasn't already there.
But what about her answer that she gave too no, no, no, I'm not going anywhere, haven't offered my resignation. The president hasn't asked for it. Take a hike.
SEAN SPICER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: That's extremely concerning that you can botch something this important and this expensive and not even think that I owe it to the American people. I owe it to the taxpayers and frankly, I owe it to this administration. Maybe they should bring in the A-team and maybe they should bring in people who are qualified to administer and run this program because that's what we need to.
What concerns me right now, Erin, is this thing has been botched so bad that I'm not sure they know the difference between the A-team in terms of the tech people and the A-team that was on the TV show because that's how scary it is right now in terms of the bad the rollouts has been.
Let's look at one quick thing. Yesterday, the White House brought in 13 people to do the pitch man, Billy Mays activity where they talked about how this thing is to run. They run in 13 people. The problem is only three of them had actually enrolled in Obamacare. That's how bad it is. They can't even find 13 people that have actually enrolled. This is going to be health care by the DMV and they realized that they are in big, big trouble and they need more than the A-team.
BURNETT: To be fair, some of those people, one of them was a pharmacist and she wouldn't have signed up for it because she was employed by CVS, I believe and her point was, well, some customers have come in and they've been helped. They were trying to not necessarily just have people who would sign up. Just to make sure I'm clear, Sean.
But Brad, what about Sean's point, but also Casey Wian reporting, for many people in this country who have insurance, the majority of people. A lot of them have insurance through big companies. They are paying more. I know at our company we've all been told directly for the past two years, you're paying more because of Obamacare.
That is something that might surprise and concern a lot of people and might indicate a problem that runs a little deeper than a failed web site.
BRAD WOODHOUSE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I run an organization and you know what? We're not paying more. I think there are companies who are seeing premium increases that were going to happen anyway, who would like to blame it on Obamacare or there are companies who are opposed to the president politically -- who are making -- hold on, Sean, who are making changes to their health care plans and blaming it on Obamacare because they have a political axe to grind. Let me say, Sean clearly just playing politics with this. We've seen report after report after report --
SPICER: You mean Robert Gibbs.
WOODHOUSE: Report after report after report about premiums going down in New York, in California. Now they weren't rushing out saying that's a great thing. I mean, the RNC and Republicans shut down the government to try to end Obamacare. Does anyone really going to take them as credible voice on how to fix it?
They're happy it's not. That it's had problems. They are happy that the web site has glitches. They're rooting for failure. What we need to do is improve it and make it work for millions of people. That's what's happening.
SPICER: There are two issues at stake here. One is the management of this program and the execution of it. It troubles me greatly when the answer that the secretary gave Sanjay was no, one informed the president. Wait a second. This is the number one issue, the number one legislative piece of the president's agenda and no one tells him that when 200 people get on the site, it crashes. That's a problem.
If I were the president, I would have said what would it have taken for to you tell me this? Second, the issue of cost isn't just the problem. We're also seeing Americans have their hours cut down where many Americans were getting by on 40 hours a week are getting cut back to 29.
WOODHOUSE: That is not true.
SPICER: You're making up all these companies.
WOODHOUSE: There has been report after report that there is not a bit of data including the Labor Department's employment figures for last month --
SPICER: Real company and real people.
WOODHOUSE: That indicates that there is any shift to part time employment. Part time employment fell. Full time employment increased in this country.
BURNETT: Final word to Brad.
WOODHOUSE: Erin, I understand that you needed to bring on somebody from both sides. But the RNC supported Ted Cruz's effort to shut the government to end Obamacare. They really don't care whether Obamacare works or fails. The American people want to it work though and it's going to.
BURNETT: All right, well, I'll leave it there. Thanks very much to both of you. You were a great duo despite the disagreement.
Still to come, a terrorist suspect in this country has Hepatitis C. Could taxpayers be responsible for his potential sky high medical costs?
Plus a mystery that's captivating the world. The girl found in Greece. Thousands of leads have been pouring in from around the world and now they say she might belong to someone in the United States. Who is she?
And our first look at Apple's newest item, thinner, faster, lighter, the iPad Air, is it good enough?
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BURNETT: Our third story, OUTFRONT, put it on the taxpayer's tab. New details emerging tonight about the health of Abu Anas Al-Libi, he is being tried in New York. He is here right now for his suspected role in the deadly U.S. Embassy bombings. Al-Libi is suffering from an advance stage Hepatitis C.
Now his family said he needs a liver transplant. Now his lawyer says that may not be true, but experts say Al-Libi's trial will be prolonged and that could make it necessary. This means taxpayers would be pick up the big tab.
Chris Lawrence is OUTFRONT with what it would cost and how much taxpayers in the United States pay for terrorists' health care.
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CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. commandos snatched the suspected terrorist off the streets of Tipoli. But his capture may come with a huge bill for health care. Anas al- Libi is in U.S. custody accused of planning the bombings of two American embassies in Africa, attacks in which more than 200 people were killed.
His family says al-Libi has got an advanced case of Hepatitis C.
GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: This is a preexisting condition that he brought with him.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): If he needs a liver transplant, it would cost taxpayers up to a quarter of a million dollars. He would have to take follow up medications that could cost more than $50,000 a year for life and he is only 49-years-old.
On Tuesday al-Libi's attorney said he is getting medication to treat the Hep C. But that al-Libi does not have cirrhosis of the liver, it doesn't need a transplant. But it is possible his medical needs could change.
ANDREA PRASOW, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: He has to be given proper health care. That's a basic obligation the United States has to its prisoners. LAWRENCE (voice-over): It is just the tip of a health care iceberg. With dozens of suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay likely to die of old age, if kept at the prison.
REP. ROB WITTMAN (R), VIRGINIA: I think that is certainly a likelihood. Some of those, you cannot envision anything else other than detaining them.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): It costs U.S. taxpayers millions a year for each detainee there. And as they get older, the price of their medical care is likely to skyrocket.
PRASOW: One detainee needed heart surgery. The U.S. government had to fly in a cardiac team into Guantanamo because they didn't have the facilities.
LAWRENCE (voice-over): And Andrea Prasow, a human rights watch says medical costs make a good argument for moving detainees to federal prison.
PRASOW: As expensive as health care may be in the United States, it is a lot cheaper in the U.S. than at Guantanamo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: And some of attorneys for some on the detainees have filed emergency motions with courts asking for additional medical care like additional tests for heart disease or devices to help with breathing. We're likely to see more and more of these additional medical needs as the detainees get older and get all the ailment that's come with old age -- Erin.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, Chris Lawrence. We make some people think differently about Guantanamo. Let us know your thoughts.
But our fourth story OUTFRONT is the money and power of Apple. Apple introduced its new ipad today, the ipad air. And air it not just a little thing, you know, a fancy little. No, it is real. It is 20 percent thinner, 30 percent lighter than the current ipad with the same screen and the processing chip that is in the new iphone 5s. The Air hits stores November 1st. Wi-Fi only, you will pay $499, 4G $629. That is no deal. But you know what? You don't always need a deal that do well for Apple. Everyone wants to know if it is a must have device though, or just another ipad.
Richard Quest is the host of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" and he is OUTFRONT.
All right, Richard, so the bottom line, is it worth it?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Well, the gold question is do you change from something like this?
BURNETT: Yes. You change from that because you need a new case or something. QUEST: This is the old ipad 2 which has served me well. And am I got go spend extra for something a little bit lighter? It is a pound as opposed to 1.4. It is thinner. It is supposedly a bit faster. But Apple no longer has this to themselves. Called today, triple tablet Tuesday. Because we got three tablets from three different manufacturers. We got Apple's ipad air. We got Microsoft with the surface pro two. And we got Nokia with their first Lumia tablet. So the game is changing.
BURNETT: So there is a lot more competition.
All right, but let me ask you this though. When you evaluate the Apple versus these other ones, because you have two new iphones out of Apple, right, you talk about it. Pacific crest says the iphone 5 s in the U.S., outstripping demand for the iphone 5c, the one with all the colors.
QUEST: That was cheapest and it hasn't really worked and was not a very good idea.
BURNETT: All right, stock this year, though, down 15 percent. Obviously, when you look at the stock market this year, it is up more than 20 percent. So, is this enough to turn it around? But now, they have more competition, no?
QUEST: You have to get away from the idea of thinking it is a device. You need to start thinking about echo systems. Do you mean want to be an IOS? Do you want to be an android? Or do you want to be in Windows 8 or some versions of the windows phone system? Because that is the future. Those people who have this won't necessarily have an android phone. If they have an android phone, you're looking puzzled here, you are looking dismayed.
BURNETT: Well, you know, these thing, are I'm not a tech savvy --
QUEST: Right. But the future is very much in which system of operating system do you want to be part of? And what Apple is doing at the moment is still premium, it is still at the upper end. But it by no means does it have the game to itself.
BURNETT: So that -- OK. Translation then, the way I understand is you saying even if it is successful, they're going on lose the market share because you got more things coming in.
So, in order for the company to grow and the stock price to go up, they need to come up with either something better or something different. A new category. That's what they used to be good at, right? The category, do you think you need it? And then all of the sudden, you need it.
QUEST: Yes. But, you can't do that every time. And the big disappointment of today ipad S that it is just incremental. It is not quantum leap.
Now, your viewers will certainly be wanting to know which ones they prefer because it will be dependent upon which echo system you are in. Android, Windows or Apple IOS.
BURNETT: Well, on that note we will ask to please tweet @richardquest of course or at our show and let us know which you prefer. We'll see what Richard can pull together off of that.
All right, thank you. Good to see you. And please get a new cover on that thing.
Still to come, a mystery child found living with a couple in Greece. No one knows where she came from. It has become the international mystery everyone is focus on. Thousands of leads pouring in from around the world. The question is are we going to find out who she is and is she American?
Plus, the latest from yesterday's deadly school shooting. We just learn some more information about the shooter tonight and we have the 911 calls made from children at that school.
And a strange story gets stranger because it turned out one of the men who pushed that boulder we told you about that had been sitting there for 170 million years off that pedestal in Utah has a connection to Jodi Arias.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Our fifth story OUTFRONT, Who does the mystery girl in Greece belong to?
Thousands of leads have been pouring in from around the world after this little girl, blond, blue eyed, was discovered in a Greek gypsy community last week? They're called the Roma, historically referred to as gypsies.
Officials are investigating as many as 10 missing children in case in connection with the abducted girl including Lisa Irwin. You may remember her. We covered her on this program two years ago. She vanished from her home in Kansas city and George Howell is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): October marks two years since Lisa Irwin went missing. But now her family has new hope. Thousands of miles away in Europe. A girl only known as Maria taken by Greek officials from a Roma family charged with abducting her.
As a mother, when you look at that picture and the picture we've seen from Greece, what are the similarities? What do you see?
DEBORAH BRADLEY, MOTHER OF MISSING LISA: I see the same facial structure, the same eyes, and you have to remember that for example, I have a friend that has a 2-year-old daughter whose eyes are just now changing color. Little Maria's eyes are a little different in the color but they're still in the same color family.
HOWELL (voice-over): This girl found in Greece, could she actually be from Kansas City? Robert Lowery with the national center for missing and exploited children says a full investigation is underway.
ROBERT LOWERY, NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: We reached out to the FBI and started working Interpol. We're asking that the DNA data be shared with our laboratories here in the United States for comparison purposes to any of the missing children here from the United States. Frankly right now is that, it does not appear that this may be any of our children. But again, we want to confirm one way or the other.
HOWELL (voice-over): There is also the question of the child's age. Dental records indicate Maria is either five or 6-years-old. Baby Lisa would only be three next month.
JERRY IRWIN, FATHER OF MISSING LISA: The dental records that you just mentioned, that's kind of the first time we've heard about that as a for sure type of thing. So --
HOWELL (voice-over): Does that discourage you or will you look t that --?
BRADLEY: Absolutely not. It doesn't discourage me at all. Because like I said, Lisa is very, very big for her age. When she was kidnapped, she was almost 11 months old and she was wearing size 18 month and 2T. She is a very big girl.
HOWELL (voice-over): The last time Deborah Bradley saw her daughter Lisa, she was just a baby. The night she vanished from her bed after what her parents say was a home invasion in 2011. The mystery of what happened here captured national attention. The parents even questioned by police at one point. But they have also seen this community rally behind them, optimistic about any lead that comes in, desperately hoping this time it is a match.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: Now George, the Irwins are one of many families saying this child is theirs. I mean, this child has given so many people hope. Are authorities aggressively looking all these cases, some of them? I mean, I know they have DNA now from the little girl. So, it would seem they can get an answer.
HOWELL: Absolutely. And as you mentioned, we're talking about ten different families in four different countries around the world looking at this case, hoping, Erin, that this could be the answer they've been looking for.
However, we're also learning from Greek officials that the DNA of Maria, Maria's DNA does not match any of the DNA they have on record in their international database. And Erin, we are also hearing from the state department, basically saying that they have no information. That this could be an American citizen. But still we know this family is holding out hope and they are also hoping for a DNA test to answer these questions conclusively.
BURNETT: Thank you very much, George Howell. I think everyone just wants to know where she came from and what the story is. Well, still to come, we have new information coming tonight about a former Utah doctor accused of murdering his wife. Police officers today described his behavior immediately after his wife's death. You'll hear them.
But the controversial move by facebook, why it says it will now allow users to post videos of violent acts including beheading.
And a bizarre connection between two very different stories. One of the men who pushed this boulder off its mooring. You remember him, the guy suing for disability. Well, one of the guys that is here in this picture is connected to Jodi Arias.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: Welcome back to the second half of OUTFRONT.
Police officers took stand in the trial of Martin McNeill. He's the Utah doctor accused of drugging and drowning his wife as she was recovering from a facelift. Multiple officers testified that McNeill was hysterical and disruptive as medics tried to revive his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN BECKSTROM, POLICE OFFICER: He was blurting out things like why did you have to have the surgery? Why are you on so many medications? Why, God? And just -- and he was pacing about in and out of the home, and just hysterical.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, according to the officer you saw, McNeill seemed surprised, questioning why his wife had the facelift. And prosecutors say he was the one who actually pressed her relentlessly to have cosmetic surgery. The trial will continue this week. We'll be covering it here OUTFRONT.
Well, in Australia, 2,500 firefighters and personnel are now working around the clock to put out wild that go about 1,000 miles. This is the worst they've ever seen, but it's going to get worse. They say stronger winds and higher temperatures are coming tomorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMMISSIONER SHANE FITZSIMMONS, RURAL FIRE SERVICE, NEW SOUTH WALES: We're certain of the weather conditions and for the fires to run and spread. It's about as bad as it gets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: About as bad as it gets. Fires already have burned land the size of Los Angeles, near Sydney.
Well, controversial move by Facebook. And then a bit of a backtrack later in the day. So, Facebook lifted a ban on videos of beheadings. They said it made sense as long as the contents intended to raise awareness.
Now, it's pretty hard to imagine an actual video of a beheading that would raise awareness. A spokesperson tells CNN that, quote, "If the video were being celebrated or the actions are encouraged, the approach would be different." The problem is, of course, if you show a video of a beheading, at some point, somebody might have been celebrating it. So, you get the problem.
There was immediate outcry over the decision. And our Laurie Segall reports, Facebook took a hard look and now says it's going to make the guidelines even more strict. So, we'll await an update. Facebook does, though, still prohibit any kind of nudity, drug use or pornography.
Our sixth story OUTFRONT: Panic and mayhem at the Nevada school shooting. We have newly released 911 calls tonight that reveal the deadly scene that unfolded outside the Sparks Middle School yesterday.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIPS)
CALLER: Somebody brought a gun to school. They shot a teacher.
911: The teacher's down?
CALLER: Yes.
911: OK. We'll get somebody out there right away. You're at Sparks Middle School?
CALLER: Yes. They shot again.
911: They shot again?
CALLER: Yes.
CALLER: Can you please send police out here? There is a kid with a gun.
911: OK. Where are they with the gun?
CALLER: Huh?
911: Where are they with the gun?
CALLER: Sparks Middle School.
911: I know. But where at the school? That's what I'm saying.
CALLER: By the basketball court.
(END AUDIO CLIPS)
BURNETT: It's hard to hear a child's voice like that. Authorities have not yet identified the 12-year-old shooter. But they say he wounded two students and killed the math teacher and marine, Michael Landsberry, before turning the gun on himself and shooting himself to death.
Landsberry serves in Afghanistan. He's being called a hero because he approach the shooter, appeared to try to talk him down which enabled other shooters to escape.
OUTFRONT tonight, Stephanie Elam. She has the latest. She's on the scene.
And, Stephanie, you know, those 911 calls are hard to listen to, especially when you hear that child on trying to explain, trying to be calm. What are authorities saying about the motive?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Erin. Yes, the emotion is so raw when you hear those calls. And at this point, authorities are trying to figure out what could have made this 12-year-old come to school before school started and start shooting like he did. One thing they have decided, though, is what could have been a way worse situation was made better because of Mike Landsberry.
They say he intervened and he stepped up. And we did talk to some members of the Nevada National Guard, where we know that Michael Landsberry had served for some 14 years and they said they believe his military training may have played a part.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY BURKETT, NEVADA NATIONAL GUARD: He was trying to save the children. He was trying to save that child. And from what I understand, he did not hesitate. He walked up to the child very calmly and tried to talk shooter out of the weapon. And, unfortunately, it didn't work out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELAM: And at the same time, they're also pointing to the staff and the students at the school for making sure that the shooter did not make it inside of the school. He was only out on the playground area. They're saying it could have been a way worse situation, Erin, if that had been allowed.
BURNETT: Stephanie, when you think about what we're learning, the very latest on what's happening about this child, this 12-year-old who did the shooting. What else do you know about him? I know there's been very limited information, 12 years old is so young though. It's so extremely young. I mean, you're talking about a preteen.
But what we have learned is that his parents are getting some police protection. And they are grieving and working with the police. They are cooperating completely.
But at the same time, the police are just making sure there is not any sort of retaliation. They're helping. The one thing we have learned. The investigation into where this gun came from continues, it is possible they could face charges. They're not at that point now.
The other thing that we also learned is that one of the students who was there on campus at the time said he heard the student shooter yelling different thing like, "Why are you laughing at me?" That he was screaming at the time of the shooting but all the students were running as fast as they could to get away and took refuge in a nearby home.
So, still learning about all that happened on this campus yesterday morning, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Stephanie.
And so many questions, of course, that we just need answered. I mean, as a country when you think about, if you start looking at people at that age committing these sorts of heinous, horrific crime. What we need to do about it.
Our seventh story OUTFRONT is the boulder tumbler's legal troubles. And we told you about this last night. And a lot of you responded to the video.
Tonight, investigators are working to determine the type of punishment that three men will face for tipping over a 3,000 pound ancient boulder.
Of course, one of the men, as you know, is suing for disability but managed to push over the boulder. The men filmed themselves while destroying the natural wonder in Utah can be seen cheering after former scout leader again Glenn Taylor knocked the rock from its perch.
We're also learning tonight that the man who actually took this video has ties to another very high profile case. You've got to believe this one -- hear this one, I'm sorry, to believe it.
And Tom Foreman is OUTFRONT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wiggle it, just a little bit --
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It took millions of years to build the rock formation in Utah's Goblin Valley. It took seconds for Glenn Tailor to push one over.
(LAUGHTER)
FOREMAN: But now it seems increasingly possible the viral video of that instant in time could produce long lasting repercussions.
For starter, both Taylor and the man who shot the video, Dave Hall, had been relieved of their duties as boy scout leaders, as has a third man. They may face criminal charges. As one of the men told a local payment, they've been getting death threats from people in Germany and Spain and New Zealand, hundreds and hundreds of hateful messages.
Never mind that Hall has argued they were performing a public service by preventing a Roadrunner and Coyote scenario in which the unstable rock might unexpectedly fall on people using the popular park.
DAVE HALL, FILMED THE ROCK TIPPING: That thing wobbled. I looked at that main path, that main walkway and I thought, one gust of wind and a family is dead.
FOREMAN: But the strangeness just won't stop. Does Hall look familiar? He was a close friend of Travis Alexander. The man murdered by former girlfriend gone bad Jodi Arias. Hall appeared on TV dozens of time during her trial, right through the guilty verdict.
HALL: Today, Travis' family will get a good night's sleep knowing that justice worked.
FOREMAN: But Hall may not be sleeping well and he is avoiding TV. He told OUTFRONT, based on the advice of his lawyer, he is not speaking to the press.
(on camera): And here is a final odd twist. One reason that area in Utah is a state park is that people as far back as the 1960s feared the delicate rock formations needed to be protected or they might be destroyed by vandals.
(LAUGHTER)
FOREMAN (voice-over): It is all rising like a dust devil around the rock topplers who can only wait to see how the scales of justice might tip.
For OUTFRONT, Tom Foreman, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: It doesn't get more strange than that.
Still to come, a story we've been following for weeks. Hundreds of people right now marching in the streets of Maryville, Missouri, tonight, demanding justice for Daisy Coleman. Her mother is OUTFRONT is next.
And an environmental threat. Pollution levels more than 30 times the recommended standards have forced basically the closure of an entire city. You cannot imagine this. But we will go there with you tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: And we are back with tonight's "Outer Circle".
We go to China tonight where dangerous smog has nearly clearly closed one city in the Northeast. Millions are affected by pollution levels that are more than 30 times the recommended standard of the World Health Organization.
So, David McKenzie went and I asked him how government officials are handling this horrific emergency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, the pollution in Beijing is bad today in Harbin, northeast China. It's off the charts, bringing a city of some 10 million people to a standstill. Flights have been canceled. The road in and out of town shut down. Even students can't go to school.
Government authorities said it is because the heating system which is coal-powered has been turned on. But they believe that they tried to fix the pollution problem here in China with stringent measures. But activists say that there is no end in sight -- Erin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Look at that skyline. I always remember the only time I've ever been in Beijing when it was sunny was when Hillary Clinton was there and they seeded the clouds. She left and it looked like it looked behind David McKenzie.
Our eighth story OUTFRONT: a rally for justice.
Hundreds are gathered in the streets of Maryville, Missouri, tonight, demanding justice for Daisy Coleman. Coleman says she was 14 when she was raped by a 17-year-old high school senior who plied her with alcohol. That senior Matt Barnett says the sex was consensual. The county prosecutor dropped the charges at the time, citing a lack of evidence. It was nearly two years ago. And now, a special prosecutor is taking a second look at the case.
OUTFRONT tonight, Kyung Lah in Maryville.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The national media descending on Maryville. First physical gathering for protesters after social media fervor driven by online activist group Anonymous under the #justicefordaisy.
COURTNEY COLE, WOMEN'S RIGHTS ACTIVIST: This is a grassroots effort. And there have been people throughout the entire nation that have been working to try to final some kind of solution in some way to help. And that makes a difference.
LAH: Protesters are energized, say organizers, now that this teen rape case is being reopened. National pressure led to the appointment of a special prosecutor who promised local politics and connections would play no part in the new investigation.
JEAN PETERS BAKER, PROSECUTOR: Our review of this case would be without fear and without favor. LAH: Key words for Daisy Coleman. Just 14 years old. When she and a 13-year-old friend say they were raped by two high school boys after a night of drinking.
SHERIFF DARREN WHITE, NODAWAY COUNTY SHERIFF: Yes. There was I believe a crime that occurred.
LAH: Sheriff Darren White arrested the accused boys but local prosecutor Robert Rice dropped the charges. Why? He says Daisy and her mother refused to testify in court.
Colemans say that's a lie. They believe the real reason charges were dropped, one of the accused, Matt Barnett, his grandfather is a former state representative.
(on camera): Special prosecutor announced. What's your reaction to that?
WHITE: I think it's great. I think that this actually may be the one thing that gets the truth out.
LAH: After it does, this Missouri town of 12,000 will begin the tough job of asking itself the tough questions.
GREG MCDANIEL, CITY OF MARYVILLE, CITY MANAGER: After this process is complete and the media attention dies down, that we're going to have to work together as a community to increase awareness in our community about events and how young people treat each other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNETT: And the vigil is happening now and, Kyung, I know there are still people behind me. There have been hundreds of people there tonight.
What has been the tone there in Maryville?
LAH: Well, it's very passionate and very peaceful. And they're emphasizing that they want this to be a peaceful gathering.
And when I'm talking about passionate, there are people who have driven here several hours from other states. They have no connection to this town but came here because they are so moved by what happened to Daisy. They also say that they wanted to be a part of a larger discussion about rape and rape victims.
And, Erin, we should also say we ran into Daisy's grandfather and her cousin. They were crying as people were chanting justice for Daisy because they say they are finally glad to see people in this town supporting her.
BURNETT: Kyung, thank you. I want to bring in Daisy's mother, Melinda, who's appearance on OUTFRONT led to that prosecutor reinvestigating the case.
And, Melinda, you know, you're there, I know, today has to be a really emotional day. Our reporter standing there in the street with the people behind talking about your family in tears.
How do you feel about what's happening there today?
MELINDA COLEMAN, CLAIMS DAUGHTER WAS RAPED BY CLASSMATE: I'm really touched. I think it's a wonderful sentiment and I'm really touched and happy.
BURNETT: The special prosecutor was appointed just yesterday. Are you -- have you had a chance to speak with her yet, Melinda?
COLEMAN: Only just to say hello. We are meeting soon, and I'm really excited about it, really happy.
BURNETT: And I know this has to be the hard part to think about this. I mean, for so long you weren't getting a lot of support and now, you know, you're so emotional having these people who are coming and supporting your daughter and supporting what she went through.
But, obviously, I know in part of your mind you have to be thanking -- well, her case might get reopened but there might not be a conviction. Is that a possibility you've considered? Would it be enough now that so many people have rallied behind your child?
COLEMAN: I think that just the fact that we're being heard and we're getting a chance at justice is huge. All we've ever wanted is to have some justice.
BURNETT: And what comes next --
COLEMAN: So even if --
BURNETT: Go ahead. What --
COLEMAN: I'm sorry.
BURNETT: Now, that's all right. We have a delay, so I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
What comes next for you? I know this has now become overwhelming and exhausting, I'm sure in some ways good -- sometimes in a good way but also, you know, it's taken over your life at this point.
COLEMAN: Yes, absolutely. At this point just waiting to meet with the prosecutor, the new prosecutor and see what can be let her take the wheel for awhile.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Melinda, thank you very much.
COLEMAN: See what's going to happen there.
BURNETT: Thank you so much for taking the time, and I know it's a meaningful day for you, and I'm sure for Daisy, as well. So thank you.
COLEMAN: Yes, thank you.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, a preview of a controversial new film. It's called "Blackfish."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BURNETT: This Thursday, CNN will air the television premiere of "Blackfish." It tells story of a talented SeaWorld trainer killed by a 12,000 pound orca and it raises some serious questions about who was to blame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tamary (ph) --Tamary made mistakes. The most important one was interacting with whales without a spotter. So she's putting her foot on Orkid, she's taking her foot off, she's taking it off. Watching the video knowing Orkid, your stomach drops because you know what is probably going to happen.
She grabbed her foot. Tamary whips around and she grabs the gate. You see her just ripped from the gate.
At this point, Tamary knows she's in trouble. She's under the water, splash and Orkid both have her. She's totally out of view. No other trainer knows that this is happening.
People start to scream as the park guest that was filming it. You hear, you don't see her, but you hear Tamary surface. You hear her just scream out somebody help me, and the way she screamed it, was just such a blood curdling like she knew she was going to die.
Robin, when he ran over he made a brilliant decision. He told the trainer to run and take the chain off Kasatka's gate. By taking the chain off, it would give the precursor to orca that Kasatka was coming in. Kasatka is more dominant than Orkid. So, Orkid let her go.
Her arm, it was u-shaped. It was compound fractured. She's very lucky to be alive, that's for sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Now, of course, critics of the film, including SeaWorld, have called "Blackfish" inaccurate and misleading. But we hope that you will watch it for yourself and decide for yourself what you think about whether orcas should ever be held in captivity.
CNN Film's "Blackfish" airs this Thursday night at 9:00 Eastern. That is right here on CNN.
Thanks so much as always for joining us. I'll see you back here later on tonight and same time tomorrow.
"AC360" starts right now with Sanjay Gupta.
