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Awaiting Announcement of Royal Birth; Will Israeli-Palestinian Peace Talks Resume?

Aired July 22, 2013 - 15:00:00   ET


CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour, reporting tonight from Buckingham Palace, awaiting the royal proclamation that will announce the arrival of the child who could one day sit on the British throne.

In a moment, our coverage of the latest developments since the Duchess of Cambridge went into the hospital this morning.

And also tonight, a critical and dare I say hopeful development in the Middle East, the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has announced preliminary talks between Israel and the Palestinian Authority could happen in Washington as early as next week.

Justice Minister Tzipi Livni will be Israel's lead negotiator and my exclusive conversation with her is coming up shortly.

But first, to our royal correspondent, Max Foster, who's outside St. Mary's Hospital in London.

Max, what is going on there? Since hours and hours ago, when the duchess went into hospital?

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Yes, well, she could have been in labor for more than 14 hours -- imagine it. So thoughts with Kate at this point.

The baby could have been born; that is a possibility. We won't find out for a while after the baby's born because the process is that the Queen, the prime minister, archbishop of Canterbury, people around the world in the commonwealth, all must be informed before the public's informed, because this is a future monarch, of course, of 16 countries around the world.

But if the baby hasn't been born, there will be a delay of some sort. If you imagine that if the Queen has to be told first; we've been told the Queen won't be woken up to be told the news. I would think if the baby hasn't been born in a couple of hours, we're probably not going to find out in the morning. So 8:00 am local time probably is the earliest tomorrow. The latest tonight, I'd say probably 10:00-10:30 local.

AMANPOUR: Well, you've said, you know, what you think might be going on inside. But how are you all holding up? I mean, you know, the -- you and the whole world's media just about has been camped out for practically two weeks now.

FOSTER: Well, you know, it did get a bit frustrating yesterday, having been here for seven days and exhausted and you know, getting to know people far too well, you know, spending long days with them.

Actually, today's been great; we've had a bit of information. We know that the story is happening now. So a great deal of relief, I have to say. But we do have something in motion at least, and hoping the best for Kate as well, because all of these plans that we've been told about actually entirely depend on whether or not this was a smooth pregnancy. And we don't know -- a smooth labor, rather.

AMANPOUR: Max Foster, thank you very much. And of course we'll keep checking in with you throughout the rest of the evening hours.

Now let's turn to our next story. And could this royal baby grow up in a world where Israelis and Palestinians are finally at peace? Maybe, though that's one thing about this royal birth that bookies are not taking bets on.

There was, however, a potential breakthrough this weekend in getting back to the long-stalled Middle East peace negotiations, thanks to the tireless efforts of U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.


JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: And when this process started several months ago, there were very wide gaps, very significant gaps between the two sides. We have been able to narrow those gaps very significantly.


AMANPOUR: So none of this is happening in exactly leaps and bounds; rather more at a snail's pace. The two sides have agreed to meet and talk about talks, to discuss reviving the peace negotiations. They hope to send top envoys to Washington as early as next week possibly.

Just getting to this point was no small feat. Secretary Kerry is navigating a variety of sticking points that have derailed talks in the past. The '67 borders, the ongoing Israeli settlement building on the West Bank and Palestinian prisoners.

Now Israel said it will release some of them, people who they've described as heavyweight, who've been in prison for more than 10 years. But that still leaves, of course, the larger issues to be addressed, the status of Jerusalem, the fate of Palestinian refugees around the world. And skepticism is, of course, as always, sky high, that this go-round would product that elusive peace deal.

But just talks themselves may be crucial if, indeed, they happen, because using history as a judge, there's usually less violence when a peace process is underway. And there's usually more chance of progress when the United States is fully engaged.

Now I managed to speak with Israel's lead negotiator. She's justice minister, Tzipi Livni. I talked to her earlier this evening from Jerusalem just before a U.S.-imposed gag order goes into effect on the two sides.


AMANPOUR: Minister Tzipi Livni, thank you very much for joining me. Welcome to the program.


AMANPOUR: So clarify for us: are you on your way to Washington?

Are these talks about talks actually going to happen this week?

LIVNI: Well, I'm here in Jerusalem, but I truly hope that in the next few days we can meet with the Palestinians -- and of course by the invitation of Secretary Kerry, who really was amazing here, bridged gaps.

And I truly hope that our dream and aspiration to negotiating in order to end the conflict can be translated into real meetings, real dialogue and hopefully, in the end, ending of conflict.

AMANPOUR: But I hear that Prime Minister Netanyahu needs to have the whole cabinet approve this process.

Has that happened yet?

LIVNI: No, not yet. Listen, it's not a secret that in Israel we have different opinions. And also within the cabinet, within the government we have parties that it's more problematic for them to support the process.

But yet I hope and I do believe that we can have the majority in the Israeli government to support this.

I believe that this is in the interest of Israel but, of course, we have different opinions in the Israeli cabinet.

AMANPOUR: Obviously the Israeli position is that there must be no preconditions. I assume you're still staying with that position.

And I want to ask you what your reaction is to some on the Palestinian side, who say that there must be at least an agreement on the '67 borders as a basis of negotiation before this process starts.

LIVNI: Christiane, you know the last thing that I want to do now is to do something that both of us, so both sides agreed with Secretary Kerry. I'm not going to relate publicly to the terms of the understanding that we reached with the United States and the United States with the Palestinians and vice versa.

The whole idea is that to build trust and confidence and not to enter into this blame game that we used to have in the last years.

AMANPOUR: Well, let's talk, then, a little bit about what might come up. Obviously there's so many issues. The idea of settlement activity, you know obviously that the E.U., the European Union, has passed measures that say there can be no funding for any activities in Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank.

That has obviously put some pressure on Israel.

Is that one of the reasons why you're coming to the table or why you think now is the time -- the time is right?

Why do you think --



AMANPOUR: -- the time is right to come to the table now?

LIVNI: I believe that the time was right. Also years ago, I support deeply not only the idea of negotiations, but the idea of the lead to end the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. This is an Israeli interest. It's not a favor to the Palestinians nor to the E.U. and not even to the President of the United States.

It is our own interest. And this is the reason that the idea of relaunching the negotiation is not because of the pressure or because of a favor or doing something to -- for the sake of others.

It is the interest of Israel. I -- talking about the E.U., the good news is what they announced today. And this is that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. So having the new release on the new instructions to the E.U., to the organization, is something that they published last week.

But it's going to be implemented just in few months from now. So we are going to work with the -- with the E.U. in order to change this, because it doesn't contribute to negotiations because the future of the Israeli borders and the Palestinian borders need to be agreed in the negotiations room and not by the E.U.

AMANPOUR: What about the fact that Prime Minister Netanyahu, I assume, wants a better relationship with the United States?

Is this one reason to go to talks, to have a better relationship with the Obama administration in order to have, you know, more sort of cordial entente on other issues, such as Iran or other such things down the road?

LIVNI: You know something, it's not only the interest of the -- of Israel and the relations with the United States, which are very important to us in Israel from a strategic point of view. It's not just a matter of same values and interests. But it is really a relationship that's important for us to keep.

But you can see that minutes after Secretary Kerry announced about the invitation and that both sides agreed to come and negotiate, those that opposed this declaration, it was Hamas in the Palestinian Authority.

Those that are not fighting for the creation of a new state, but they are fighting against the existence of the state of Israel, Iran, jihadist Islamists.

So basically by relaunching the negotiations, we can reform different groups in this region; on one hand we have the extremists, we have Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas.

And on the other we have group of pragmatics that now by relaunching the negotiations in the support, with the support of the Arab League, we can have the same camp of moderates acting against those that are using terror and are not accepting not only the right of Israel to exist, but they are fighting the values and the interests that the United States represents in the region.

So, yes, it's a mutual goal. It's the same interests between Israel and the United States. But it's more than that.

AMANPOUR: Well, let me ask you about your next-door neighbor, Egypt, with whom you do have a peace treaty.

How has the change of government there, the toppling of the elected president, Mohammed Morsy, and now this interim government heavily influenced by the military, how does that affect the dynamic of your relations with Egypt and on this peace process if it ever gets underway?

LIVNI: You know, the good news is that having peace between Israel and Egypt is something that since we have this for so many years, any changes until now in the Egyptian presidency and government doesn't affect the peace treaty because they understand this well that this is their own interest.

And the last thing that I want as an Israeli or as an Israeli minister, I truly don't want to relate to the internal situation in Egypt or Syria or other of our neighbors that internally are in terms of changes and troubles and all this stuff because I don't want the extremists there or elsewhere using any statement coming from Israel in order to say, you see? Israel is involved in the internal situation in Egypt.

So the wise thing to do is to be silent now.

AMANPOUR: And you're being very silent, very, very professionally.

Tzipi Livni, thank you very much indeed for joining me.


LIVNI: Thank you. Thank you.


AMANPOUR: And we'll hear from a Palestinian representative tomorrow.

But first, as the next royal prepares to take the stage, what impact will he or she have on those who already are in line to the British throne, for Charles, Prince of Wales, and his elder son, William, father of the royal baby there is no change. Charles is first in line to succeed his mother, the Queen. And William is still number two.

But with the royal baby to be third in line to the throne, William's brother, Harry, and his uncle Andrew each take a step back to fourth and fifth place.

Not a bad day's work for a newborn.

Now, if you remember your Shakespeare, Macbeth inherited the title of Thane of Cawdor after the previous holder of that title was executed for treason. Well, there is still a Thane of Cawdor and inheritance is still an issue here.

I'll speak to a daughter of the 25th Thane whose younger brother now holds the title simply because he's a male. Lady Elizabeth Campbell, when we return.




AMANPOUR: Welcome back to the program, live tonight from Buckingham Palace, ever since the Duchess of Cambridge entered the hospital this morning, crowds have been gathering at the gates. They have been waiting for the proclamation that everybody thought would actually be the first moment to reveal the newest royal heir.

But now we hear that the royal household at Kensington Palace, the home of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, may in fact are going to be announcing this by formal press release when the news actually comes and then the whole theatrics of the proclamation being delivered to the palace will happen.

So we're waiting now for a press release and only after that will be the drive to Buckingham Palace and the proclamation put up on the easel there.

Now the newest royal heir -- or rather the birth -- will mark a new era of equality in the monarchy, and that is thanks to legislation that was passed this year. The royal baby will be third in line to the throne regardless of whether it's a girl or a boy.

Now why royalty has made this move, nobility has not. And for centuries the landed and titled gentry have scrambled for a male heir to protect their inheritance, their assets, their land, their castles.

A little bit of legal discrimination that was captured for all the world to see in the famous television program, "Downton Abbey," in which mother and grandmother, both Lady Granthams, discussed the fate of their estate without a son to inherit it.



CORA, THE COUNTESS OF GRANTHAM: Only that there is one.

VIOLET: He's Robert's third cousin once removed. I have never, to my knowledge, set eyes on him. Lord Grantham wanted to protect the estate. It never occurred to him that you wouldn't have a son.

CORA: Well, I didn't.

VIOLET: No, you did not.


AMANPOUR: Now when it comes to women's inequality among the nobility, my next guest has first-hand experience.

Lady Elizabeth Campbell is the daughter of the 25th Thane of Cawdor. And if you remember your Shakespeare, Macbeth, of course, she now campaigns for equality for women in the peerage.

Welcome. Thank you for coming on this program to discuss this.

Do think that this law that's been passed now for the royal succession will have an effect on nobility?

LADY ELIZABETH CAMPBELL, CAMPAIGNER, EQUALITY FOR WOMEN IN THE PEERAGE: Well, I hope so. I mean, whatever child is born, it will be a beautiful thing. But if it's a girl, obviously that's of great historical significance. And will keep the focus on the fact that there is still a lot of sex discrimination in the peerage.

If it's a boy, it may -- the -- it may be another generation before it'll be addressed. But I hope not.

AMANPOUR: So tell me what it's like to be a girl born into a noble family, any girl that's born into a noble family here?

CAMPBELL: Contradictory experience, I would say. Growing up, as I did in the '60s and '70s, quite groovy things happening, listening to music. And yet at the core of my family, we're very medieval beliefs and rules that (inaudible) system that they believed in.

So you know, all girls are born less than men. And they will get skipped over. I mean, as there are two girls and then a boy. But with other families, there's one family that has eight daughters, no boys but -- and the title will go to a distant cousin.

And it's just the simple matter of sex discrimination that no one really noticed. We did. But the interest wasn't there until this pregnancy.

AMANPOUR: What is it like being a boy growing up in a (inaudible)? I mean, I heard that when a boy is born, there's, you know, huge celebrations, you know, everybody's sort of, you know, rushing out to call people to a great event.

CAMPBELL: Yes, well, as there would be, because if they don't have a boy, then it'll go elsewhere because the girls are deemed less. And so they --


AMANPOUR: Are there tears when a girl is born?

CAMPBELL: I think no, no, there might be. I mean, if it's a sixth girl, there might be. But you know, it -- yes, there is an element of disappointment because it is all about the man.

AMANPOUR: So you've grown up with this. You're the second daughter. So it had been equal, your older sister would have inherited.

In any event, you've grown up with this. And now you've decided to throw your weight behind trying to change it.


AMANPOUR: How is that going to happen? What is the process and the procedure?

CAMPBELL: Well, at the moment, there will be a -- there's a reading in the House of Lords but it will happen in the autumn to try and propel this forward. There's also an MP in the Commons, Mary McLeod (ph), trying to attach her equality bill to another bill that Cameron is doing, not the (inaudible) birth peerage on its own.

AMANPOUR: And who are the biggest holdouts to change?

Is it the women? Is it the men? Who are resisting this most in the family?

CAMPBELL: I would say the recipients of the privilege. The men. And some old-fashioned women who are old-fashioned and who have -- aren't particularly aware that the status quo is sexist, that they just accept the status quo for what it is, and they're rather surprised that there should be any stirring.

AMANPOUR: What about the sort of devil's advocate position, or at least the position that the gentry puts forth, and that is if we divide it amongst all the family, well, perhaps it'll fall into disrepair; perhaps there will be arguments over who will, you know, repair the roof of the castle or who can afford to X, Y and Z.

CAMPBELL: But you're talking about the Napoleonic system, where -- which the French do. And I'm not talking about that. We're not -- we're not advocating a Napoleonic system and I don't think that would be accepted here.

We're saying that in the peerage, there's an unfair system, but an unfair system, ageism is preferable to sexism.

AMANPOUR: So I think, as you said, if there's going to be a playing field at all, it better be level.

CAMPBELL: Yes, first come, first served, not first man past the post each time.

AMANPOUR: Do you think it's going to happen? Do you think that there is a momentum -- I mean, I know this has changed, this royal succession. Do you think that will -- I don't want to say shame, but galvanize?

CAMPBELL: I really hope so. I mean, I really hope a lot of men will get on board, too, because here we are, you know, we're men and women. We share this planet. And you know, every area of life should be equal. You know, at the moment, Cameron's been --

AMANPOUR: The prime minister, David Cameron.

CAMPBELL: -- David Cameron has been talking about complaining that the goal for open is at Northfield (ph), which is a men-only club. And saying that that is wrong.

You know, the -- in the peerage, there are girls (inaudible) by an accident of birth are born into a club in which they are not welcome to. So it seems important that these things get addressed. And it seems particularly stark if the royal family can address it but the peerage don't.

AMANPOUR: What does this do within families? Does it create family animosity? I'm not asking for your particular case, but in general?

CAMPBELL: I think -- I feel I have a voice because I'm the second daughter. I have nothing to gain from it. But I think the eldest daughters find it very hard to speak out because they are squashed down and told that they're restive, spoiled, sour grapes. And I've always felt free to talk because I'm not the eldest. So I think, you know, when a system is -- treats women who talk about equality, who accuse them of disloyalty just for talking about equality, I think it's a system that should be looked at.

AMANPOUR: And you are doing that, and you are doing battle.

CAMPBELL: A little bit.

AMANPOUR: Lady Elizabeth Campbell, thank you very much indeed for joining me.

And in a moment, whether it's a boy or a girl, the newest royal is sure to be a marketing windfall. It's a bouncing baby brand extension when we return.




AMANPOUR: And finally tonight, as Britain awaits its newest royal baby to be heralded by massive cannonades and dazzling light shows, there are those party poopers known here in Britain as Republicans -- of course, not to be confused with the American political party -- who see the monarchy as a drain on the national coffers and a political anachronism that ought to be tossed out, the baby with the bathwater, if you will.

But imagine a world where the royal offspring is, in fact, a modern marketing marvel, enhancing Britain's brand and bolstering its sluggish economy, as everything royal actually does. According to the Centre for Retail Research, consumers will spend nearly 90 million pounds celebrating the royal birth between now and August.

And two-thirds of that spending spree will go toward liquid refreshment, toasting the blessed event with good old British beer and ale.

Given that the royal wedding that begat the royal baby brought in a whopping 500 million pounds two years ago, a (inaudible) last summer by the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, which is actually still being celebrated this year, the dollars and cents make it hard to argue that the monarchy is bad for business or that its popularity has waned.

Soon, Britons will fill the pubs to overflowing and link arms to sing another chorus of "Land of Hope and Glory," and as the tourists flood in, a new heir to the throne offers both hope for the future and the continuation of the glorious tradition.

That's it for tonight's program. Meantime, you can always contact us at our website, Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.