Return to Transcripts main page

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Cancer Charity Rip-Off; NSA Leaker Resurfaces Online; Obama Approval Rating Dives; Whitey Bulger Trial; Naval Academy Alleged Rape: Charges May Be Filed; New Search for Hoffa's Remains In Michigan Field; Photos Show Celebrity Chef Grabbed by Throat; Teen Hikers Rescued from 8,000 Ft. Cliff

Aired June 17, 2013 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Resurfaces online, answering allegations that he's spying for China. Talks about why he believes he'll never get a fair trial in the U.S. And revels in the honor, as he puts it, of some people calling him a traitor.

Later, there might not be honor among thieves, but what about alleged killers? What made a former hit man who confessed to murdering 20 people turn on his former associate James Whitey Bulger and what happened during their courtroom confrontation today.

We begin, though, tonight "Keeping Them Honest" with a challenge that remains unanswered. Last week, after profiling three so-called cancer charities that seem only to care about their profits, I challenged the people who run them to come on the program or talk to our correspondent Drew Griffin.

Let them explain, I said, facts uncovered by Drew, the "Tampa Bay Times", and the Center of Investigative Reporting. Facts that show these so-called charities to be abusing and squandering your hard- earned donations, like none we've ever seen before. Tonight not one of these three have taken us up on the challenge. Two of the three, though, have spoken out elsewhere, but the things they're saying raise even more questions.

Before we go to Drew Griffin who's got the latest information on that, I want to show you his original report so you can reacquaint yourself with all the players in this, and what they've been doing with the money that donors believed, and I emphasize the word believe, was actually going to help cancer victims.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Drive down these country roads outside Knoxville, Tennessee, and into this small industrial park, and you'll find the headquarters of a family conglomerate of cancer charities that return lavish salaries to their owners but according to their own tax records donate very little to dying cancer patients. And the last thing the people running this charity want to do is answer questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't -- don't turn your camera on me. OK?

GRIFFIN: Across the country in Mesa, Arizona, another outpost of the conglomerate. It's called the Breast Cancer Society. Its CEO and executive director, the man escaping in the truck, James Reynolds, Jr.

(On camera): Excuse me, sir? Mr. Reynolds? Hey, excuse me. Mr. Reynolds, right here, buddy. Mr. Reynolds? Hi. Hi, can you stop for a second? No, where are you going, Mr. Reynolds? Mr. Reynolds?

(Voice-over): Back in Knoxville there is another cancer charity, the Children's Cancer Fund of America. And this one run by yet another member of the family, Rose Perkins.

(On camera): Hi, is Rose Perkins in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's not available and she's not doing any interviews.

GRIFFIN: OK. Why won't she do us any interviews? She's running a charity here for kids with cancer, right? That seems like a good idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's -- and that's why I've just been told to tell you she's not doing interviews.

GRIFFIN: Can you tell us what you guys do? Any positive things you do with the money you collect?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can send your questions to her e-mail.

GRIFFIN: OK. What's that e-mail?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we'll answer it.

GRIFFIN: If you're asking us for money, what would you say you did with our money?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We help children with cancer.

GRIFFIN: And how do you do that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you mean how do we do that? We help children with cancer.

GRIFFIN: Yes, how? In what way?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We provide them a financial assistance.

GRIFFIN: Financial assistance, and do you have any idea how many --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I -- if you have any other question, please send them to her e-mail.

GRIFFIN: OK. My question --

(Voice-over): Rose Perkins did e-mail us and tells us her charity, "has a clear conscience because we feel we are making a good difference in people's lives." But also told us an interview is ,"not something we can consider."

That may be because of the questions we'd like to ask her and the other members of her extended family who are essentially making a living on your donations.

Rose Perkins, the CEO of the Children's Cancer Fund, is paid $227,442 a year. Her ex-husband, James Reynolds, Sr., is president and CEO of Cancer Fund of America. He gets paid $236,815. And James Reynolds, Jr., president and CEO of the Breast Cancer Society, has a salary of $261,609.

It's money that comes from donors like you who in 2011 sent these three charities $26 million in cash. How much of those donations actually went to helping cancer patients? According to the charities' own tax records, about 2 percent in cash. Example, the Cancer Fund of America raised $6 million through its fundraising campaign in 2011 and gave away just $14,940 in cash.

But that is not what you would hear from the telemarketers hired by the Cancer Fund of America run by James Reynolds, Sr.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, how much of my $10 would go -- who is this to?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cancer Fund of America Support Services.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cancer --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One hundred percent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of your donation goes into the fund where we purchase medical supplies for these cancer patients. We also do the hospice care for the terminally ill and we supply over 600 hospice offices with medical supplies all over the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But how much of my $10 will go --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It goes 100 percent toward the charity itself. I'm calling directly from the charity and that is not a telemarketing agency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that's great then.

GRIFFIN: According to the Iowa Attorney General's Office, which gave us these recordings, those phone call statements are one great big lie. The callers were telemarketers being paid to make the call. The state of Iowa fined the telemarketing company $35,000 for making false representations.

As for donations to other charities, the Cancer Fund of America claimed on its 2011 tax filings it sent $761,000 in so-called gifts in kind, not actually cash, to churches, some hospitals, and other programs around the country.

When we called or e-mailed those other charities to check, many of them said they did get something, things like these supplies. But several of the groups told us they never heard of the Cancer Fund of America or don't remember getting a thing.

The Cancer Fund also takes credit for serving as a middle man, brokering transfer of another $16 million worth of gifts in kind to individuals and other charities, many of them overseas. Those contributions double up both as revenue and donations on the same tax forms.

Back at the Cancer Fund of America's corporate office, even the chief financial officer who, by the way, has a salary of $121,000, couldn't explain what was happening.

(On camera): We just have all these North Mississippi Medical Center. Never heard of you. Yolanda Barco Oncology Institute, nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know if that's one of the ones that we looked up but again you would have to talk to him.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): The him is James Reynolds, Sr., the founder who finally told us in an e-mail his board thought it unwise to talk to CNN. Even though in a different e-mail he called the news of phantom donations, quote, "most disturbing."

As for his son, James Reynolds, Jr. and his charity in Arizona --

(On camera): Hey, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. The camera needs to stay outside.

GRIFFIN: OK. Can he stay right there? Is Mr. Reynolds here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am sorry. He's not in right now.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): The public relations officer for the Breast Cancer Society, Kristina Hixson, who by the way is married to James Reynolds, Jr., sent us e-mails telling us the Breast Cancer Society's guiding mission is to provide relief to those who suffer from the effects of breast cancer and that, "We've made a difference in the lives of tens of thousands of men and women," but declined our request for an on-camera interview.

And when our camera found James Reynolds, Jr., he made sure we got the message with a single finger salute.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: This guy who's running a charity, who's flipping you the bird. James Reynolds, Jr., still isn't talking to us. The Breast Cancer Society charity he runs, they're responding to your report. And they're pretty harshly accusing the reporting as grossly ignorant at best and that we plan to, quote, "hold them accountable." What exactly are they saying we got grossly inadequate? GRIFFIN: Anderson, the headline of the charity's Web site is, "What is the truth about the Breast Cancer Society that you won't hear from CNN's Anderson Cooper's show," they claim 75 percent, not 2 percent of their donations go to charity. But as we've reported, it's just not so. The Breast Cancer Society took in $13 million in 2011, it gave away, according to its own tax filings, just 2.4 percent of that money to cancer patients for families.

We do know where $261,000 went, and that is into the pocket of the guy giving us the finger, James Reynolds, Jr. That's his salary. And as for you and your show, Anderson, this is what the Breast Cancer Society thinks of the report. "We believe it was maliciously fabricated to support a very crooked and slanderous agenda that Anderson Cooper's show should be ashamed of."

So there you go, Anderson.

COOPER: What's the agenda? Did they say?

GRIFFIN: No, they did not say. Other than that we want to boost ratings with reports like this.

COOPER: So this guy's father is also involved in a questionable charity, the Cancer Fund of America. Is he talking?

GRIFFIN: Yes, Anderson, but again, not to us. James Reynolds, Sr. really isn't disputing the fact that just 2 percent of the money raised goes to cancer patients, 80 percent, he says admits really, goes to fundraisers, along with his $237,000 salary. But get this, he granted an interview to a local affiliate in Knoxville, Tennessee. It's a CNN affiliate. Where he said the mission of his charity is really not to give financial assistance, but rather to give gifts that make cancer patients and their families feel good.

They may be donated gifts he's essentially re-gifting but he thinks giving away adult diapers, fans and even treats is what the true purpose of his charity is. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES REYNOLDS SR., PRESIDENT, CANCER FUND OF AMERICA, INC: Products that even the children in the family would like and indulge. Children never stopped liking. Pies and candies. Each little candy in there was like 7-Up. I've never seen them on the market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: So millions of dollars to give away treats. And just as a reminder, Reynolds, Sr., and his charity, the charity run by his son and the charity run by James Reynolds Sr.'s ex-wife, Rose Perkins, they're three of the 50 worst charities in America, identified, Anderson, by our reporting partners, the "Tampa Bay Times" and the Center for Investigative Reporting.

COOPER: You know, I mean, everyone loves moon pies and the guy seems like a charming, you know, elderly man, talking about, you know, his recollection of eating moon pies and 7-Up and stuff. But the bottom line is he's admitting 80 percent of the money that they raise goes to fundraising -- to try to make -- rope in more people to get more money. And -- I mean, I don't think the people are donating money to this charity think it's about giving adult diapers and moon pies to kids and adults with cancer.

Did they give you a reason for not just sitting down and answering our questions, instead of, you know, running from our cameras and giving you the finger?

GRIFFIN: Well, the closest we got was a statement from the Breast Cancer Society which claimed that CNN, quote, "will not share editorial privilege and as such we can't responsibly engage in an interview.

COOPER: I don't even know what that means?

GRIFFIN: I don't know what that means either. I don't know. I don't know either. They go on to say that we would just butcher and rearrange to meet CNN's -- this is another quote, Anderson, "agenda of tabloid-like deception and slander to bump ratings." So instead of all that he gives us the finger.

COOPER: Again, I mean this just blows my mind. These are people who are -- you know, asking for money from good people, from Americans, all across the country, and you would think anybody who runs a charity would be willing to give an interview any time to talk about what they're doing, show you their books, and what's also amazing to me is how this is all a family affair?

I mean, you've got the dad, you've got the son, you got the ex-wife, you know, with the current wife. And it doesn't seem like dad and the son really got together and had a phone conversation, because son is saying, well, it's not 2 percent, dad's not arguing with the fact that it's 2 percent, he said, in fact, 80 percent were given away to fundraisers, so they need to get their stories together, it seems like.

And you know what, we'll do a live interview with them, no editing at all. I mean I will be happy to do that. I know, Drew, you'd be happy to do that as well. So, again, the challenge is out there. If they're legit, they should show up or, you know, eat some more moon pies or something, I don't know.

It's really -- it's infuriating. I mean, it's really infuriating. It's just -- it's unbelievable because people are donating their hard earned money thinking they're helping people and these folks are, you know, living high off the moon pies.

Drew, thanks very much. Thanks for the reporting.

Let's -- follow me on Twitter right now @andersoncooper. Let's talk about it right there.

Next, what the NSA's leaker is saying now about allegations of spying for China. I'll talk with Glenn Greenwald, one of the people who launched the entire saga, continues to make news on this.

Later, mobster Whitey Bulger coming face to face with his alleged former hit man. An amazing confrontation in court. A confessed killer now who's gunning in court for Bulger.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: New word tonight from the NSA leaker Edward Snowden, answering questions online for Britain's "Guardian" newspaper. Says the U.S. government has destroyed his chances of a fair trial. In his words, openly declaring him guilty of treason. He says that's why he fled to Hong Kong where he may or may not still be.

In fact the Justice Department is yet to even decide whether to charge him. However, plenty of political figures have called him a traitor including most recently former Vice President Cheney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I think he's a traitor. I think he has committed crimes, in fact, by violating agreements given the position he had. Well, I'm deeply suspicious, obviously, because he went to China. That's not a place where you ordinarily want to go if you're interested in freedom, liberty and so forth. So it raises questions whether or not he had that kind of connection before he did this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That's former Vice President Cheney on FOX News. He went on to say that he worries that Snowden still has more intelligence to shop to the Chinese in exchange for sanctuary. Now today online the "Guardian's" Spencer Ackerman asked him to address that allegations. Snowden replied, quote, "This is a predictable smear that I anticipated before going public, as the U.S. media has a knee-jerk red China reaction to anything involving Hong Kong or the People's Republic of China and is intended to distract from the issue of U.S. government misconduct."

He goes on to say, "Ask yourself, if I were a Chinese spy, why wouldn't I have flown directly into Beijing? I could be living in a palace petting a phoenix by now."

In later in the Q&A Ackerman asked Snowden directly whether he had secretly given classified information to the Chinese government. Snowden replies, "No, I have no contact -- I've had no contact with the Chinese government, just like with "The Guardian" and the "Washington Post," I only work with journalists."

He also said that being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is, in his words, the highest honor you can give an American.

Joining us now one of the reporters who first broke the Snowden story, the "Guardian's" Glenn Greenwald who was part of today's online chat.

So, Glenn, first off we know Edward Snowden is in hiding, believed still to be in Hong Kong under considerable scrutiny. Why did he want to go public today in this online discussion?

GLENN GREENWALD, COLUMNIST, THE GUARDIAN: I think usually what happens with whistleblowers is they end up being not part of the debate, either because they are in hiding or because they are indisposed in prison. A lot has been said about him, lots of accusations have been made toward him. And I think that he feels as though he wants to account for his own behavior and speak directly to the public and answer questions about what he did and why he did it.

COOPER: He was asked today if anything should happen to him, do others have access to his documents. And the answer -- now I want to read to our viewers what he said. He said, "All I can say right now is the U.S. government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me. Truth is coming and it cannot be stopped. First of all, does he really believe that his life is in danger, that the U.S. may want to murder him?

GREENWALD: Just go and read the -- what the U.S. officials are telling the media outlets, like "The New York Times" from 48 hours ago, and what they're saying is that, if the information that he has in his possession, and including the information in his head, ends up in the hands of any other foreign government, it would be the gravest threat to national security in a very long time.

So I don't think that it's necessarily probable or likely or anything like that, that the U.S. government is going to try to use physical force to prevent that from happening, but if you're him and you hear U.S. officials saying that you -- they think you pose the greatest threat to U.S. national security in a long time because of what you have and what you know, it's certainly sensible to think about those risks, to take precautions if you look at what the U.S. government has done in the last 12 years in the name of national security, there's a lot of extreme behavior that they've engaged in. So I think anybody in that position would be thinking all right.

COOPER: Do you buy that? When officials say, this is the gravest risk? I mean, do you -- do you buy that?

GREENWALD: Yes, I think U.S. officials always say that about any time that they are having light shined on what they've been doing in secret. It's the way that they try and keep that wall of secrecy erected. At the same it is true that the National Security Agency is a critically important part of what the U.S. national security state has built up over many years and if huge amounts of secrets were to simply be turned over en mass to another government, it is true that that would be damaging.

But he's been very clear that that's not his intention. If that were his intention he could have done that in lots of different ways. And so I think what this really is a fear-mongering campaign on the part of the U.S. government to turn Americans and the public against him. And therefore turn away from the disclosures that have been made as a result of what he's done.

COOPER: He says that he has not given information about any U.S. operations against what he's called legitimate military targets. But, I mean, his critics would say, who is this guy to determine what is and is not a legitimate military target.

GREENWALD: What he's saying is that there are certain countries in which the U.S. Congress has declared a war essentially. The authorized use of military force in places like Afghanistan, and if he isn't interested in exposing secrets of what is being done against those countries, he instead is wanting to inform the citizenry, not just in the United States but around the world, that the NSA is targeting everybody and trying to erode privacy for all of us.

COOPER: The heads of the intelligence communities have now asked to declassify information that they say prove dozens of terror plots have been foiled because of these programs. If that happens, would it justify, in your mind, the existence of prism and other similar programs that might exist?

GREENWALD: No, and this is such an important point. Let's say the U.S. government collects everybody's phone records and taps into everybody's Internet chats. They then say, when it turns out that they got caught doing that, well, look, we detect a terrorist plot as a result of this program. No, that isn't correct. They ended up detecting terrorist plots because they specifically listened in on the phone conversations or e-mail communications of specific people about whom there was evidence to believe they were actually engaged in terrorism.

So what the U.S. government always did in the past, when they battled the Soviets, when they engaged in the Cold War, was it was a very targeted surveillance, it was only against people for whom there was really evidence to believe they were engaged in wrongdoing.

Indiscriminate, massive surveillance absolutely makes it harder to find the bad people because they have so much information, they can't even process it. But the fact that they end up finding somebody out through mass surveillance, doesn't prove that they wouldn't have found those same people through more targeted surveillance programs.

COOPER: All right. Glenn Greenwald. Glenn, appreciate it.

GREENWALD: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: The Snowden affair seems to be putting a dent in President Obama's polling numbers. His jobs approval now under water, 45 to 54 in the latest CNN/ORC data. That's down from 53 to 45 just last month. And asked whether Mr. Obama is honest and trustworthy? People are now almost evenly divided, 49 say yes, 50 percent say no. That's an 18-point swing for May when the numbers were 58 yes and 41 no.

Here to talk about the impact, chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

So this drop in the approval ratings, how do you account for it? I mean, is it directly related, do you think, to the NSA revelations?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think -- I think there are a couple of reasons here. First is the president has had an awful lot of controversies on his plate. Not only the NSA surveillance, but also the IRS controversy, controversy over drones, controversy over a leak investigation that some people believe was more of a dragnet, and so the president has been in kind of a defensive crouch on that.

When you dig deeper into our poll numbers also, Anderson, you see this huge decline he's had, again in that one-month period of 17 points with younger voters.

COOPER: Yes.

BORGER: You know, the under 30 set. These are the stalwart Obama supporters who have real trouble with the surveillance issues so I think it has a lot to do.

COOPER: He's actually scoring worse than President Bush did on the issue of restricting civil liberties.

BORGER: I know, he probably can't believe that one. But, yes, when President Bush had that warrantless wiretap controversy in 2006, which then Senator Obama opposed, his -- the question of whether he went too far, you see there, Bush, only 39 percent, thought he had gone too far. And now that the president is in the middle of this NSA controversy, 43 percent of the public thinks he's gone too far.

COOPER: Yes.

BORGER: I think that plays into the trust issue, Anderson, that you were talking about earlier. He's down on trust, people always give someone they trust the benefit of the doubt. And now I think they're attaching him to government which they don't trust.

COOPER: Do you think he needs to get out in front of this?

BORGER: I do.

COOPER: To kind of lift the veil on these programs. It's a hard thing to do, though.

BORGER: I do.

COOPER: These are, you know, supposedly classified programs.

BORGER: Right. Well, a couple of weeks ago he came out and he said to the country, you know, this is a debate I want to have, I'm glad we're having this debate. I think he needs to get out there and lead it. One way he can lead it, and I believe they're trying to do this, is declassify some of the instances in which this kind of surveillance has actually succeeded in thwarting terror attacks.

Then I believe the president also himself needs to get out there and lift the veil, as you said, let the American public know a little bit more about what he's been thinking, because a lot of people can be confused for thinking, wait a minute, this is the man who railed against warrantless wiretaps when he was in the Senate. OK. I get we don't do that anymore. But now he is presiding over a surveillance policy that maybe years ago he might have questioned.

COOPER: Yes.

BORGER: So American people want to -- want to hear from the president on this if they can.

COOPER: We'll see. Gloria, thanks very much.

BORGER: Sure.

COOPER: For more on the story, you can go to CNN.com right now.

Coming up, a midshipman at the Naval Academy who says she was raped by three classmates. She's speaking out tonight about why she waited so long to report the assault. She's afraid to show her face but she wants her story told.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So you didn't want to tell the authorities about the sexual assaults?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ironically enough I didn't want to tell them, but I still wanted justice. I live in close proximity of these people, I see them all the time. One of them lives directly below me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Hear what happened to her ahead tonight.

Also ahead, reputed mobster Whitey Bulger's alleged hit man testified against him in court today. It was fascinating. He's now a government witness who's itching to take Bulger down. How much damage did his testimony do? We'll get some answers next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In "Crime and Punishment," a traumatic day in the Whitey Bulger trial, convicted hit man, John Martorano, took the stand to testify against the gangster he once considered his best friend and partner in crime. Martorano served time for 20 mob-related killings for the South Boston that Bulger allegedly ran. In 2008 interview with "60 Minutes" Steve Croft, here's what he said about those murders.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you keep count of how many people you killed?

JOHN MARTORANO: No, no. Until in the end I never realized it was that many.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many?

MARTORANO: A lot, too many.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a number?

MARTORANO: I confessed to 20 in court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sure you remembered them all?

MARTORANO: I hope so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you always kill people by shooting them?

MARTORANO: I think I stabbed one guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you like guns?

MARTORANO: Well, it's the easiest way, I think.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Under a deal cut with prosecutors, he served a life sentence for his own crimes and in return became a government witness. Now today, he gave testimony intended to directly tie Whitey Bulger, his former friend, to the 19 murders, that he, Bulger is now charged with.

Deborah Feyerick who is in the courtroom joins me now from Boston. It was the first time these two former best friends were face to face in nearly 31 years. Were they checking each other out? What was it like inside the courtroom?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was so fascinating. I mean, these two men barely looked at one another even though they were about six feet away, John Martorano in the witness box and Whitey Bulger at the defense table staring straight ahead. Martorano testified that yes, they were incredibly close. That he even named his youngest son, James, in honor of Whitey Bulger.

He said that came to an end when he learned that Whitey Bulger was an FBI informant. From that moment he says it broke my heart. It broke all loyalties and that's why he's testifying against Whitey Bolger (inaudible) two of them spent so much time together, he can really testify as to which murders Whitey Bulger was present at, and that's exactly what he did today on the stand.

He talked about how the two men would pick a victim. They would target their victim and as the victim was pulling away in their car. Martorano would be in one vehicle, Bulger in another to make sure the hit was successful. Martorano would open fire and Bulger would prevent anyone from getting in the way even if that man trying to block somebody or cut off the police car.

So a lot of pretty dramatic testimony, but Martorano betrayed barely any emotion as he testified to murder after murder after murder. When he talked about this betrayal by Whitey Bulger, which is the worst thing you could be here in South Boston, Anderson. That's a rat, an informant specifically an FBI informant. That's when he seemed a little sad, that he was betrayed by this man he had been close to -- Anderson.

COOPER: We also heard about the relationship between former FBI Agent John Conoley who was convicted of helping Bulger avoid arrest and Whitey's brother, former Massachusetts State Senate President Billy Bulger.

FEYERICK: Yes, absolutely. The relationship between Whitey Bulger and the rogue FBI Agent John Conoley is what many people believed allowed Bulger's empires, criminal enterprise, to grow and flourish for so many years. But apparently when Conoley returned to Boston, he met with Billy Bulger who was then very powerful, who is the senate president in Boston for a number of years. He met with Billy Bulger and said, look, thank you for keeping me honest, if there's anything I can do let me know.

And Billy Bulger said keep my brother out of trouble. That's when the relationship began, Whitey Bulger soon after began paying Conoley cash, bought him gifts, gave him some diamonds to give to his wife for his anniversary, but it was a long relationship, and one that allowed many of the murders, prosecutors contend to take place, because Conoley was telling him when someone was going to testify against him, that allowed Bulger to wipe him out -- Anderson.

COOPER: Deb Feyerick, thanks very much. "Boston Globe" columnist, Kevin Cullen is co-author of "Whitey Bulger, America's Most Wanted Gangster, and The Manhunt That Brought Him To Justice," a long time reporter for "Globe." He was the first to raise questions about Whitey Bulger's relationship with the FBI. He joins me now. So Kevin, on this program on Friday, you said you expected that today Bulger would stare down Martorano and they would stare each other down. That didn't seem like that's not how it played out.

KEVIN CULLEN, CO-AUTHER, "WHITEY BULGER": I think the flip side of Whitey, he will either try to intimidate you or make you believe that you don't exist. One of the things we found when we were writing our book, we sent him letters asking for his cooperation or even for him to read the manuscript and check it for accuracy. And he wrote to somebody who gave us his letters for jail, in which he said, he would not even give us the satisfaction of knowing he's read those letters. This is sort of out of Whitey's playbook too. He couldn't be bothered to look at Johnny today. They kind of more or less ignored each other.

COOPER: And the fact that this guy, Martorano, who is this infamous Boston mob figuring his own right cut a deal with the government to testify against Bulger. How much does that affect his credibility as a witness?

CULLEN: Well, that's clearly -- I mean, you can see Jay Carney and Hank Brennen the defense lawyers they can't wait to get at him. I was in Miami when he testified against John Conoley, Anderson. I have to be honest with you. I think Johnny Martorano was a repulsive figure.

I also think he was a very effective witness. He is what he is. He's a self-admitted murderer. And, you know, I just finished my column for tomorrow and I said, even if Whitey's lawyers are able to convince the jury that he's only half as bad as Johnny Martorano that means he's only half as bad as a sociopath who admitted to killing 20 people. That's not much of a defense.

COOPER: What do you think that Bulger hopes to get out of this trial? I mean, what's the best possible outcome for him? Is he concerned about his legacy or anything like that?

CULLEN: Absolutely. He's concerned about the self- -- the self- serving narrative he created his entire life. He was a gangster with scruples, a benevolent wise guy and gangsters they don't inform on their friends and they don't kill defenseless women. Those are the two things he wants to refute.

I mean, his own lawyer got up on the opening day of the trial, and in his opening statement, he said, my client is a book maker, he's an extortionist, he's even a drug trafficker, but he didn't kill those women and he wasn't an informant. That's going to be the tone of this.

I question having the lawyer going to admit that, why are we wasting all our time going over this stuff. He probably should have said, I'll admit to this other stuff, I want to refute that I didn't kill the women, and I wasn't a rat. Those are the two things he's obsessed with.

COOPER: It's so fascinating. Does Bulger have any of the power that he used to have, or is all that gone?

CULLEN: No, that's gone. And like I said, once everybody that knew he was an informant and all the loyalty he demanded weren't one way. The only people that are still with them are his family, his brother, Jackie has shown up. I pointed out. This is a classic example of whitey's idea of loyalty. Jackie, his brother who's been there every day in court, he was the clerk magistrate in the juvenile court.

When Whitey went on the lamb, he enticed Jackie, begged Jackie to give him photographs they could use, because they look-alike. He could use them as phony I.D.s. He lured his own brother into his conspiracy. It cost Jackie his felony conviction and pension. Whitey Bulger did that to his family. Not me, not Shelly Murphy, not the "Boston Globe."

COOPER: That's incredible. Kevin Cullen, that's fascinating. Thank you so much being on the program again tonight. Appreciate it.

We have a lot more tonight including this, is the mystery of Jimmy Hoffa's whereabouts on the verge of being solved? I know a lot of people said that before. Retired FBI supervisor believes that agents are about to crack the case wide open with the discovery of Hoffa's remains that story ahead.

Next, breaking her silence, a midshipman at the elite Naval Academy said she was rained by three classmates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't talk, you can't tell. We'll get kicked out. You can't do this we'll -- they really did play on my emotions. And at that point in time, it was what felt like the entire football team against me, given that all these individuals were on the football team. And I felt ostracized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Big development tonight, in an alleged sexual assault case, the U.S. Naval Academy, where a midshipman claimed she was raped by three classmates, all members of a football team. A Navy official tells CNN that the academy's superintendent, Vice Admiral Michael Miller has ordered what's known as an Article 32 proceeding.

A hearing will be held where evidence is presented to a military legal officer, who will then decide if a court-martial is warranted. The decision was made by the superintendent after he reviewed an investigative report of the alleged incident. It's an important development for the midshipman who's speaking out tonight. She agreed to tell us the story as long as we conceal her identity.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Heavily intoxicated in an off-campus party, this young midshipman then 20 years old remembers nothing of the alleged assaults. And yet the morning after, she says she knew something was terribly wrong.

(on camera): When did you realize something had happened?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next day when I woke up, I noticed that I had bruises on my body and I just didn't feel right. And then when I got back to school, I started to notice a lot of like chatter on social media.

COOPER: What kind of chatter in social media?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People were making derogatory terms towards a female. I didn't know at the time that it was directed towards me, just kind of bragging about the situation that happened. I then began to inquire about the situation or what had happened to myself. I came to the conclusion that these individuals were talking about me.

COOPER: How did that feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was devastating for me. It's a very small school. At that point in time, I felt like my reputation was ruined forever. I had no clue what had happened. I knew I would never consent to do these types of things.

COOPER: Did you go see a doctor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did, just for health reasons. I chose not to get a rape kit.

COOPER: What was the thinking in not getting a rape kit?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted nothing more than for the situation to go away. I felt like I was living a nightmare every single day. It just couldn't end fast enough.

COOPER: You really thought this was a matter of survival?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

COOPER: You were scared for your safety?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. At that point in time I approached the administration, asking them about harassment, they couldn't guarantee me anything. And I was -- I feared that trying to pursue them on the harassment charges would only -- if nothing happened, it would infuriate them more.

COOPER: Who was harassing you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was other members of the football team constantly making derogatory terms. Kind of just eyeing me down, little things like that or making sexual gestures towards me, or constantly just making comments to people, to my face.

COOPER (voice-over): She didn't report the alleged crimes to authorities for eight months. Living in constant fear, she says, the backlash might take a more violent turn, but word of the alleged attack spread across campus. A female student reported the alleged incident as a number of other students had, only this time for the first time, the alleged victim's name was made public.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone came forward with my name, someone who hadn't been at the party. That's how large the situation had gotten. She had heard about it and she felt compelled to go forward and let people know what she knew was going on.

COOPER (on camera): But you didn't want to alert authorities?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was scared. I've seen -- this is not the first time these types of situations have occurred at the academy, nor do I think they'll be the last, unfortunately. But I was terrified because I saw what the victims went through and just not only the situation within itself, but everything that follows after.

COOPER (voice-over): And immediately after came charges but not of an assault. School authorities first charged the female midshipman with underaged drinking. Two of the football players maintained the sex was consensual. The third pleaded the fifth. Without a record from the female midshipman, her alleged attackers played out the season under a presumption of innocence. The case as closed by year's end with no charges brought as the female midshipman watched infuriated and helpless.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing was done in regard to my personal situation and these individuals were still on track to graduate and become commissioned officers.

COOPER (on camera): Did it surprise you that they waited until after football season to discipline them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did it surprise me, no. Did I think it was right, absolutely not. You know, I was suspended from a lot of things. It actually hurt me as far as seeking counselling because I had lost privileges. The administration was having problems commuting me back and forth to get to my counselling, so I just ended up, I couldn't go any more. It caused a downward spiral of events.

COOPER (voice-over): In January, she said she finally decided to tell all she knew to Navy investigators though to her it was frustrating to start process all over again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't, you know, speak on an official capacity, but that's what hurt me and why I kind had lost faith in the chain of command.

COOPER (on camera): Why did you want to be in the military in the first place?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kind of cliche, but you know, I love my country, my family has all served on the enlisted side. I thought it was a great opportunity to serve. I wanted -- I'm the first one in my family to go to college. This is something I always wanted and I still hold true. I think there are some problems, but I hope that these things can get fixed. I do still want to serve my country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: By the way, I did ask the midshipman why she wanted us to conceal her face. She says it's because while many at the academy know who she is and know the story, not all of her family and friends know her story. She doesn't want the story that she is telling to define her in her career moving forward.

Up next, the search for Jimmy Hoffa, the former Teamster boss vanished nearly 40 years ago. Now some believe his remains may be found in this field in Michigan where the FBI is digging.

And celebrity chef, Nigella Lawson, was she attacked by her husband in a London restaurant or is it just a misunderstanding? The story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Let's get caught up on some of the other stories we're following, Isha is here with a 360 Bulletin -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, information from an aging reputed mobster, a new hunt for Jimmy Hoffa's remains, this time the field in Oakland Township, Michigan. FBI agents are digging on private property about 20 miles from the restaurant parking lot where the former Teamsters boss was last seen in 1975.

A spokesman for Nigella Lawson says the celerity chef and her children have moved out of their home. This as Lawson's husband denies a report that he attacked her at a restaurant. The British tabloid "The Sunday People" shown here by CNN's Mathew Chance published photo showing Charles Saatchi apparently grabbing Lawson's neck across a table. The restaurant said its employees did not witness the alleged incident. London police say they have not received a complaint of an assault and making inquiries to see if an investigation is necessary.

It took a helicopter team several tries to hoist two teenagers from a narrow ledge in Northern California. The boys were stranded while hiking in the sierra butte no one was hurt.

A Florida teenager got the thrill of his life. He was fishing in the Gulf of Mexico when he encountered this 30-foot whale shark and caught a ride -- Anderson.

COOPER: Isha, thanks.

Up next, nothing brings America together like a beauty pageant blunder. You don't want to miss this one. The "Ridiculist" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time for the "Ridiculist." And tonight we're adding pageant haters. That's right. All you sceptics out there who don't appreciate the perky magic and sparkly importance of America's pageant culture, take for example last night's Miss USA pageant on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A recent report shows that in 40 percent of American families with children. Women are the primary earners. Yet they continue to earn less than men. What does this say about society?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Stop right there, now first of all, it's an important question. I'm not making fun of that so delete that tweet you were about to send me. Second of all, I think we can all agree that when it comes to any national discussion. Ne leaks should play a crucial role. I digress let's see how Miss Utah respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we can relate this back to education, and how we are continuing to try to strive to --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Ouch. Let's just stop there, OK? She needed to pause and compose her thoughts. Who among us hasn't had to do that? You should hear Wolf Blitzer rehearsing his show in the men's room, believe me. Let's check back with Miss Utah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Figure out how to create jobs right now, that is the biggest problem, I think especially the men are -- and seen as the leaders of this, and so we need to try to figure out how to create education better so that we can solve this problem. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Utah. Thank you, sweetheart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was painful. There you have it, create education better. Who's laughing now, pageant haters? You don't get that kind of insight at the Kennedy Center Honors. It brings to mind one of the best moments. I'm talking about the 2007 Miss Teen USA pageant who was asked by the large number of Americans who couldn't find the U.S. on the map.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and that I believe our education, such as South Africa and Iraq, everywhere such as.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Everywhere like such as. Get on board, America. As for all you pageant haters, pull out a map and see if you can find yourselves on the "Ridiculist."

That does it for this edition of 360. We'll see you again one hour from now at 10 p.m. Eastern. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" starts now.