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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Bombing Suspect: NYC Next Target; Rogers: Tsarnaev Silent After Miranda Rights; Officials: Russia Alerted U.S. About Suspects' Mother; U.S.: Chemical Weapons Used In Syria
Aired April 25, 2013 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, I'm Erin Burnett live in Times Square tonight where the mayor of New York said today the suspected marathon bombers were headed to stage yet another attack.
Plus, we have the latest on the investigation. Friends of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev are now being held in federal custody tonight.
And the mother of the two alleged bombers, well, she says the whole thing was staged, that there was no attack. Her bizarre conspiracy in her own words. Let's go OUTFRONT.
OUTFRONT tonight, this was the next target on the Boston bomber's hit list. The surviving suspect has told investigators that he and his brother were headed right here to Times Square in New York City to detonate more explosives before they were stopped.
I'm going to have a lot more on this story from right here in Times Square and we have all the other angles of the investigation covered tonight. In Boston, Drew Griffin, David Mattingly and Brian Todd.
In Rhode Island, Erin McPike with new details on Tamerlan Tsarnaev's wife. In Dagestan, Nic Robertson with new information on the suspect's parents and here in New York, Sanjay Gupta on the victims' difficult road to recovery.
Well, here's what we know. Obviously, you get a little sense of how loud and busy it is here in Times Square. It is an incredibly busy place. Hundreds of thousands of people come here a day. Here's what we know about the alleged plot to bomb Times Square.
Suspect number two, Dzhokhar, the younger Tsarnaev brother, told investigators that he and his brother Tamerlan were driving to New York the night they ended up in a gun fight with police.
This was after they allegedly killed an MIT campus police officer and carjacked an SUV. Now at first, Dzhokhar told investigators this trip was just to celebrate. But in later interrogations, when he was more lucid, according to investigators, he said they made a, quote/unquote, "spontaneous decision" that night to use the bombs they had right here in Times Square.
But even if it was a last-minute decision, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said that the attack could have been horrific.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY, NYPD: The two brothers had at their disposal six improvised explosive devices. One was a pressure cooker bomb similar to the two that had exploded at the marathon. The other five were pipe bombs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Mary Snow is here with me in Times Square tonight. Mary, when you see all the people in the throngs, you realize this is the center in so many ways of this city, if not beyond. What do you know about the details of the plan?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's just it, Erin. There aren't many details, and the way the police commissioner and mayor described this, they were briefed by the FBI Wednesday night. They said this was talk of targeting Times Square.
And the police commissioner said that the way he described this plan was that it was spontaneous. But he was told that the brothers had talked about this after they had, you know, carjacked a car that Mercedes SUV and that is when this discussion came up. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: That plan, however, fell apart when they realized that the vehicle that they hijacked was low on gas and ordered the driver to stop at a nearby gas station. The driver used the opportunity to escape and call the police. That eventually led to the shootout in Watertown, where the older brother was killed in an exchange of gunfire with the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: And, you know, the police commissioner and mayor say there are no specific threats to the city and knew of no specific targets, only that it was Times Square.
BURNETT: You know, again, you see all these people here. The police say there's a lot of police presence here and we know these are a lot of cameras. Those cameras helped to get some of the details from someone who tried to bomb Times Square a couple of years ago although that person was really caught by a street vendor here with the primary wave. How safe is this place, really?
SNOW: Yes and you know, you look around and in the heart of Times Square where we are, it's estimated close to 400,000 people pass through here every day, and there certainly is an increased police presence and after the Boston marathon bombings, New York City stepped up its police presence.
The mayor said that would have been one thing had they made it to New York they wouldn't have noticed. But, you know, if you have people acting on their own, how safe can you be? As you mentioned, in 2010, Faisal Shahzad has been caught in that thwarted attempt to bomb Times Square just a few blocks from where we're standing here and it was due to a street vendor that stopped police.
BURNETT: Cameras can hopefully help prevent and they can help you after, but they can't help in the middle. All right, Mary Snow, thank you very much, reporting here with us from Times Square.
I want to go to Boston now and to our Drew Griffin. Drew, I know you learned today that two friends of the younger brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, have been detained by federal agents. An interesting development, they haven't yet released them. Do you know why they're being held?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We do now, Erin. You know, there's been a lot of speculation about these two Russian speaking students from Kazakhstan at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth. Last Friday, while Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was still on the loose, federal agents staged a pretty powerful raid on an apartment near that college.
They put two Russian students in handcuffs. Those two students are still being held. Now we know why. They believe at the time that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev may have been in that apartment. That is why this raid was so, quote/unquote, "heavy handed."
And we know why they thought he was there because Tsarnaev was sharing a cell phone with one of these two Russian speaking students. The FBI was able to trace the cell phone records and also work with social media to find out the location apparently of that cell phone.
And they thought they were about to capture him. Those two students now are being held on immigration visa issues with immigration enforcement control. As far as we can tell and we're being advised, there is no evidence they have anything to do with this plot.
But they are being held and continue to be held on those immigration violations in the abundance of caution. Basically, they're asking them questions. They're tracing all their electronic trails to make sure they know everything that Dzhokhar and his brother Tamerlan were doing before and after that bombing at the Boston marathon -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Drew, thank you very much. An interesting part of this investigation, as you heard Drew, as of now they are not saying they were involved, but still in custody many days later.
I want to go now to the Russian republic of Dagestan where the suspect's parents live, huge developments there today. Nic Robertson is there. Nic, the suspects' father said he would be heading to the United States. I know today though the suspect's mother said she called an ambulance and the father or husband needed to go to the hospital. What's going on?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the husband has health issues. He was at the press conference today or yesterday, now Dagestan time, Thursday as it was. And he said no, I'm going to go to the United States today. I talked to him as he left that press conference. He said he was going to go and try to talk to his son in the hospital.
But later on in the evening, we found out from his wife that he had become too ill to travel. There was a thought he might travel on Friday, which is today now here. That now seems unlikely. So it's all up in the air. But that's kind of the narrative we've had from these parents in the situation so far -- Erin.
BURNETT: Nic, you know, I know the suspect's father said he's going to cooperate with investigators, but I mean, I guess, at the least I think I'm underselling this. The parents seem to be shooting down negative comments about their sons, the mother saying look, the blood was paint, that their sons were framed. Are other parents really cooperating?
ROBERTSON: You know, it's hard to tell. It's hard to know what they're really saying inside the meeting they have with the FBI officials. They wouldn't answer specific questions about that and certainly the mother was saying, well, some of those images you've seen with the backpack, you know, one of the sons leaving the backpack, she said that could have been changed by computers.
So really they're in denial, in confusion about the situation. They can't accept it. But we've heard about this Misha character that so influenced Tamerlan. When she described meeting this Misha, when he came to the house the first time, she said, I was ashamed. He came in, washed his hands, he prayed twice.
She said after he left, this Misha left, not only was Tamerlan influenced, but the mother also influenced. She said she, after that meeting, that first meeting, was so impressed by this Misha, that she began regular and routine prayers as she said as a devout Muslim.
BURNETT: All right, Nic, thank you very much and Nic referencing the mother. We have late breaking news on the fact that the Russians may have thought she was also a problem. We have that, and her denial of what happened last week in Boston in her own words because nothing can really capture it. I want to play it for you. That's coming up.
And plus, the distrust between the U.S. and Russians, did it prevent Americans from actually following up on the tips from Russians?
And the mosque where some say Tamerlan Tsarnaev prayed. They say they don't remember him at all, does that add up?
And Tsarnaev's wife perhaps a crucial link here and why she has gone silent?
BURNETT: We are live tonight in Times Square. This is where authorities say that the suspected Boston marathon bombers wanted to attack next, a place where you can see those behind me about, up to 400,000 people a day come through this square.
Tonight, the Justice Department is under fire for how it handled its interrogation of the younger brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. This could be crucial in the case. The House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers told CNN that Tsarnaev was read his Miranda Rights too soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE ROGERS (R), MICHIGAN: Once they walked into the hospital room and offered if lawyer and Mirandized, the subject has not continued to cooperate with authorities. That's a huge problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That's a huge problem. Well, our Deb Feyerick is OUTFRONT in Boston. Deb, I know there are so many questions about this. What do you know about the reading of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's Miranda Rights?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think what we know is that it's required by law to tell a suspect what his rights actually are, and what the Justice Department and the U.S. Attorney's Office here in Boston, both vehemently saying that this was just exactly according to protocol.
Any suggestion that the judge somehow stepped in and interrupted any questioning of the defendant, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, that's simply incorrect. FBI and prosecutors both were told that there was going to be a hearing set once they filed the criminal complaint then there is a certain amount of time in which the person has to come before a judge for initial appearance.
Now even though it is rare that a judge will come to a bedside, it's not uncommon. It does happen. So the judge scheduled a hearing and the people who were there, it included the prosecutors, the federal defenders, the court reporter, the U.S. Marshal Service, and people from the hospital.
So this was done the way it was supposed to be done. The suspect is entitled to know that he can remain silent and that he's entitled to an attorney. And any good lawyer would argue if that wasn't done then the case should have been thrown out because he wasn't read his Miranda Rights.
So we're getting really strong pushback from the Justice Department and the U.S. Attorney here saying, look, there's a system. You may not agree with it, but it works. Clearly there's an issue of public safety. That's why even though this man was under a doctor's care, they allowed investigators from the FBI to go in and to question him.
And the state he was in, he was heavy sedated, his hands were restrained, and they were able to go in every couple of hours to ask him a question or two for public safety, to make sure there weren't any other bombs, that there wasn't anybody else who was involved in this. So the politicians are basically saying this was done too soon, but this wasn't done in a vacuum. There are lots of very seriously smart people who are making the call on how this case is going to be handled -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Deb Feyerick, thank you very much, with all the key issues there, but obviously some real criticism happening tonight. Major questions also remain at this hour about what our intelligence and law enforcement agencies knew about the Tsarnaev brothers before the deadly bombings in Boston last week.
OUTFRONT tonight, Democratic Congressman Dutch Ruppersberger. He is a ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee. I spoke to him just before I came here to Times Square. I started by asking him about the brothers plans ahead right here to where I'm standing, Times Square, New York after the Boston bombings.
REPRESENTATIVE DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER (D), MARYLAND: They made a comment that they were going to go to New York. I think one comment I heard in the beginning might have been they were going to celebrate. The next thing you heard, they might go to attack. I think the police commissioner in New York was right. They had the capacity to drive 3- 1/2 hours to be able to do some kind of attack.
BURNETT: You know, people have also asked about, you know, this is a family that had been granted citizenship to this country because they were fleeing persecution. That's what they said and then, of course, the mother and the father went back. People have asked if you were fleeing persecution, why would you go back?
Yet another unanswered question and we've just learned today that Russia had asked the United States to check up not just on Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older brother, but also on his mother. You know, this is a woman who told CNN last night that the blood was paint. That this entire thing was a hoax and that her son was framed, I mean, some very deranged, bizarre things.
RUPPERSBERGER: The first thing, let's talk about Russia. When Russia contacted the FBI, we investigated them for four months. We didn't find any information or any type of evidence that would show he was radicalized. After four months, we stopped the investigation. There was no more evidence there.
During that period of time, we asked Russia three times to give us more information and they never got back. As far as the mother is concerned, she's relevant. Again, what happened when she went -- when Tamerlan went back to Russia?
Things changed when he came back. It seemed he was different. His personality was different. He became a lot more orthodox in his religion. So this is another avenue hopefully Russia will work with us, will get us the information.
BURNETT: You're talking about the FBI and the CIA and the question whether the ball was dropped anywhere. No doubt they are pursuing thousands of things at a time, but we do know now for a fact that Tsarnaev was on at least three counterterrorism databases.
Today, Senator Lindsey Graham said it was a failure, that intelligence agencies weren't able to connect the dots. I want to play for you what the senator said.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Boston is becoming to me a case study in system failure. Between Benghazi and Boston, our systems are failing and we're going backwards.
BURNETT: Congressman, it's amazing, he was on all these lists, but not a formal no-fly list. He was on all these lists and yet the FBI and the CIA didn't know he spent six months in Russia. He was on all these lists and when they actually had video of him, they didn't seem to notice that this matched the guy in Boston that was on the list and they had to go to the public. Something seems to not add up.
RUPPERSBERGER: As far as lists are concerned, once the FBI stopped their investigation, they got no more information in four months. He was put on a list. That worked. Why it worked is when he bought a plane ticket to go to Russia, that kicked out and right away kicked out to the FBI and the FBI gave it to their JTTF and then gave it to border patrol. So we knew as soon as he -- because he was just investigated that when he bought a plane ticket, his name came up.
BURNETT: All right, he was there for six months in an area known to foster radicalism. Wouldn't they at least check in to what he did when he got back because if you did you would have seen him on radical Jihadi web site?
RUPPERSBERGER: You raise a good -- an issue. The FBI is trained to follow the law. The Justice Department works with the FBI. The FBI is part of the Justice Department. So we need to relook at our standards, but remember, we also want to protect our constitutional rights for Americans, too.
BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, we are staying with this story and more details about this mysterious Misha that you keep hearing about. We've been investigating and we have new information tonight. What the man that some say converted Tamerlan Tsarnaev to a radical form of Islam.
But first a very big story, did Syria cross President Obama's red line and used chemical weapons?
BURNETT: Is Syria crossing President Obama's red line? Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel says the United States has evidence Syria used sarin gas on its own citizens. President Obama has said Syria's use of chemical weapons would be crossing a red line, but is the administration now backing off big-time? Jim Acosta is in Washington tonight OUTFRONT with the latest. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Setting the stage for what could be a military showdown, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said U.S. intelligence officials decided in the last 24 hours to warn the world that they suspect Syria may have used chemical weapons in that country's civil war. Potentially crossing a red line set by the White House.
CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The U.S. intelligence community assesses with some degree of varying confidence that is Syrian regime has used chemical weapons on a small scale in Syria.
ACOSTA: The assessment in this White House letter to Congress is based on physiological samples adding that the weapons very likely have originated with the regime of Syria's leader Bashar Al-Assad.
A senior White House official told reporters if proven true ultimately Assad is accountable and all options are on the table. It's a message President Obama delivered during his visit to Israel just last month.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Once we establish the facts, I have made clear that the use of chemical weapons is a game changer.
ACOSTA: Earlier this week, Israeli intelligence officials said they found evidence that sarin gas has been used in two attacks last month in the city of Aleppo and near the Syrian capital of Damascus.
BRIG. GENERAL ITAI BRUN, ISRAELI MILITARY INTELLIGENCE: Victims suffered from foaming from the mouth and other symptoms, which indicate the use of deadly chemical weapons.
ACOSTA: An account backed by Syria's rebel leader in an interview with CNN.
GENERAL SALIM IDRISS, LEADER OF THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY (via telephone): It was very clear that the regime used the chemical weapons.
ACOSTA: Still, the Obama administration is calling on the United Nations to investigate, saying there's a need for clear and credible evidence. White House officials are warning what happened the last time the U.S. rushed to war over weapons of mass destruction.
A note of caution on the same day President Obama attended the opening of George W. Bush's Presidential Library. But members of Congress from both parties say they're already convinced.
SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think it's pretty obvious that red line has been crossed.
ACOSTA: Republican John McCain said it's time to consider military intervention.
MCCAIN: To provide a safe area for the opposition to operate, to establish a no-fly zone and provide weapons to the people in the resistance who we trust.
ACOSTA: For now White House officials aren't saying what evidence they're looking for or how long they are willing to wait to get it. One thing that is clear here at the White House and up on Capitol Hill, the calls are for an international effort to rid Syria of any chemical weapons. No one is saying the U.S. should go it alone -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, thanks to you, Jim Acosta. OUTFRONT next, Brian Todd has new details about the mystery man who may have convinced Tamerlan Tsarnaev to embrace a radical form of Islam. The search for Misha is next.
Plus, the mother of the two bombing suspects, well, guess what, she says the attacks were staged with red paint. This is something that is too bizarre to be believed and you're going to hear it in her own words. We'll be right back.
BURNETT: I'm Erin Burnett live in Times Square tonight.
We have new details about the mysterious man who may have convinced Tamerlan Tsarnaev who embrace a radical form of Islam. Tsarnaev's parents spoke to CNN openly about the man identified at this point only as Misha, and the influence that this man may have had on both their family and in particular, their oldest son.
Brian Todd is OUTFRONT tonight in Cambridge.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The parents of bombing suspects Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev give new details about a man named Misha, who the mother says brought more religion into their home.
ZUBEIDAT TSARNAEV, BOSTON BOMBING SUSPECTS' MOTHER: When Misha visited us, he was just of -- he just opened our eyes, you know, really wide about Islam. He was really -- he was really -- he is devoted and is very good, very nice man.
TODD: But a man whose full name they say they don't know. The mother believes the first name might be Mikhail. Other relatives say they don't know the full name either. Through our searches and sources, we've not been able to locate the person. Zubeidat and Anzor Tsarnaev describe Misha as Armenian, a convert to Islam who came to the U.S. from Azerbaijan. They say he has a brother who is a history professor and a father who is an athletic instructor.
CNN has tried, but cannot independently verify that information. There's no evidence at the moment that Misha steered either of the brothers towards terrorism, but two other relatives say it was Misha who made Tamerlan Tsarnaev turn toward a more radical brand of Islam. An uncle says he brainwashed the older brother.
The mother sees it different. She describes the moment she and Tamerlan became truly inspired by Misha.
TSARNAEV: Like I was ashamed when the one who converted was praying in our house, you know? We who the ones were born weren't praying. So, of course, after he left, we decided it was embarrassing for us to not be praying at least, you know?
So that's probably yes. That's what happened. That's the moment.
TODD: But there were reportedly other moments involving Misha that created tension in the family.
(on camera): Relatives say Misha lived near the Tsarnaev family apartment here in Cambridge and came to visit at least twice. An uncle and former brother-in-law of the suspects have said in recent interviews that on one occasion, the father came home late at night and saw Misha preaching to Tamerlan Tsarnaev. They say the father became angry and tried to get him to leave. They say that led to tension with the mother.
(voice-over): One law enforcement official says he doesn't think Misha has been located yet.
CNN contributor Tom Fuentes says they'd have serious interest in him.
TOM FUENTES, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: A guy that's been identified by family members as the one who turned him radical would be a key figure for them to want to talk to because how far did that radicalization go, and how much involved was this Misha? Did he do more than just put this thoughts in Tamerlan's head, or get Tamerlan to change his philosophy about his religion?
BURNETT: Misha was crucial and when you hear about the family and the relationship with Misha, it raises questions, Brian. I mean, you know, the family dynamic, who was more into Islam among the parents and the son, who really called the shots here?
TODD: Erin, by every account that we're getting, and this includes interviews that family members have done with CNN, with other news organizations, from published accounts -- every indication says that the mother, Zubeidat, was really the one more into Islam than anyone maybe except Tamerlan Tsarnaev, and that the mother was the dominant figure in the family, she called the shots, that people deferred to her. Now, also accounts that Tamerlan really carried a certain swagger in the family.
But you're getting this picture that gradually being put together that it was the mother and Tamerlan who really were the ones who were really bent toward a more pure and more devout form of Islam than anybody else in the family, Erin. BURNETT: All right. Brian Todd, thank you very much.
The mother and Tamerlan -- and we have breaking news right now. We are just learning -- we are just learning that the Russians also asked the United States to check up on the brother's mother. A crucial new development tonight.
Her name was actually added to a database called TIDE. TIDE stands for the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment. Her name was added at the same time her son Tamerlan's name was also added to that database.
Obviously, this opens up the investigation even further.
I want to go back to Dagestan now where Nick Paton Walsh is now standing by.
And, Nick, as this news is breaking right now, you had a chance to speak with the mother. Do you have any idea why she made authorities suspicious?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There was, of course, the outstanding arrest warms due to a shoplifting charge that was never answered. That's obviously not it. I think if you listen to her describe how the whole family was converting towards a more devout form of Islam, she makes as though was Tamerlan was influenced by Misha, and then actually started asking her to cover up her hair. In fact, the son influencing the mother.
So, there's a strange view in some way. And as you heard just moments ago, she talked about they had a sense of shame when they were confronted with how devout his Islamic faith was. So I'm sure if Russian authorities were surveiling Tamerlan Tsarnaev here, going to one of the Salafist Islamic mosque and she said, in fact, the mother said to us he did attend in his visit here last year for about six months or so. They may have also extended their surveillance towards her as well, given it appears that both of them leans toward this more devout form of the Muslim faith at the same time. Of course, we don't know precisely if the Russians had any other information which may have caused these suspicions -- Erin.
BURNETT: And, Nick, we've also heard the mother vehemently deny that her sons could have been part of this. When she did the interview with you, I was speechless, and I know you want to give people a chance to hear what she had to say. I mean, you know, saying that it was paint, it was a hoax.
I mean, is there any chance she knew what was going on?
WALSH: It's difficult to say really. I'm meeting a woman who doesn't believe what she's seeing constantly and maybe the accusations her son, will go to almost (ph) any possible length in her mind to avoid facing up to U.S. authorities say her sons did. She didn't even directly talk about the fact that the FBI came to talk to them about the radicalization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TSARNAEV: They said that they just think that Tamerlan is kind of -- a little in the radical side of Islam, and that they just don't want like -- they are keeping their eye on, you know, the boys, like Tamerlan, in the bombing, any like explosions, what happened in America on the streets, like on the streets.
WALSH: We're going to be watching you, they said that?
TSARNAEV: They said that we watch boys like Tamerlan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: Now, there you had a strange picture of the mother talking about the FBI marking her son very calmly, admitting he went to a Salafist Islamist mosque here, which Russian authorities are being suspicious, denies any links to extremists. But at the same time herself insisting absolutely nothing was wrong -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Nick, thank you very much. Just a truly bizarre and seemingly deranged thing to say as the woman denies what happened.
The other woman, though, close to Tamerlan Tsarnaev wasn't his mother, it was his wife, and she could be investigator's best source for piecing together his activity in the months leading up to the attack, even in the days after, because she was with him all of that time. Katherine Russell known as Katie has been in seclusion since her husband was killed, but there was some activity today outside of her family home. That's where she went after her husband was killed.
Erin McPike is OUTFRONT from Kingstown, Rhode Island, at that home.
And, Erin, what's going on there?
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Erin.
Well, what I tell you that there is a stepped up security presence here today. There are about half a dozen security vehicles stationed outside the Russell household and every time one of Katie Russell's family members was coming and going, there was always a security vehicle trailing them.
The other thing I can tell you is that Katie Russell and her young daughter, as far as we know, hasn't left the Russell household in at least three days, Erin.
BURNETT: In nearly three days, wow. So I know the best you understand now is Katie Russell has only been communicating through her attorneys. We don't know if she's spoken to FBI officials.
Have they also been at any point speaking to her, do you know?
MCPIKE: Well, Erin, we still don't know the answer to that. What I can tell you is that as questions have begun to mount about Katie Russell and what she might have known about Tamerlan's activities, her attorneys have gotten increasingly tightlipped. We tried to catch her attorney Miriam Weisenbaum (ph) today outside of her office, and she would not talk to us. She simply said she was busy and she couldn't answer any questions and she's been a little more helpful and told us that she's at least uncooperative with the FBI up to this point. Right now, they're really not talking, Erin,
BURNETT: All right. Erin, thank you very much. And, obviously, a lot of answers they want from her as she was living in the very small apartment with Tamerlan and his brother, Dzhokhar, as they were building pipe bombs and other bombs in that apartment.
If Tamerlan Tsarnaev was practicing a radical form of Islam, the big question out there is, why didn't anyone recognize that he was going in the wrong direction, that he was planning deadly violence? His family says they began to notice a change in his behavior back in 2009.
But what about the people he prayed with? Because he went regularly to mosque in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Our David Mattingly is in Boston tonight with that part of the story.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Worshipping under the roof of this mosque, the Tsarnaev brothers aroused no suspicions they were planning deadly violence. And now, the mosque leadership has to defend itself against claims it is a haven for radicals.
We find that there's been hate mail, sometimes menacing.
YUSUFI VALI, ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF BOSTON: A lot of the claims made are simply false. There have been people coming in and out from this place. We have a congregation of 1,300 people.
MATTINGLY: Charles Jacobs is a critic of the Islamic Society of Boston.
CHARLES JACOBS, AMERICANS FOR PEACE AND TOLERANCE: They're aiming to transform the youth, particularly the youth, into more and more radical Islamist beliefs.
MATTINGLY: He claims the group has had numerous affiliations with extremists. Claims the ISB denies in detail.
JACOBS: There have been several instances of people connected with terror and hate speech at that mosque.
MATTINGLY: One figure Jacobs lists prominently is ISB founder Abdulrahman Alamoudi, a man whose public image was very different from some of his activities. Once consulted by Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush, Alamoudi was sentenced in 2004 to 23 years in prison for terrorist fund-raising and conspiring to murder the Saudi prince. The ISB says, "During his time there, he followed all rules and regulations." A defense similar when it comes to the Tsarnaev brothers, "They never expressed any hint of violent sentiments or behavior.
VALI: I think if we could have done more, we absolutely would have.
MATTINGLY: The ISB says people who knew the Tsarnaevs were immediately instructed to call the FBI.
(on camera): The younger brother rarely attended services here, and the older brother attended only occasionally. It was his own actions that seemed to dispute the idea of a radical mosque.
(voice-over): Three months ago, Tamerlan Tsarnaev shouted at a preacher during a service calling him a nonbeliever and a hypocrite when he praised Dr. Martin Luther King. He was told to be quiet or he would be welcomed.
Charles Jacobs stopped short of accusing the mosque of having a hand in Tsarnaev's radicalization.
(on camera): Is there any evidence that any of these individuals or any of these teachings you've been talking about were influential in radicalizing the bombers?
JACOBS: We don't know that. They live five blocks away. If you're looking for, there are many suppositions about what actually radicalize these bombers.
BURNETT: And I know that there are so many questions as to where the radicalization happens. But, David, you know, a lot of people are looking at this mosque. So, what happens if the members of the mosque find that they have a radical in their midst, what do they do?
MATTINGLY: I was asking about that. The litmus test seems to be violence. If someone expresses violent ideas or support for violent ideas, that's when they get suspicious, and that's when they would contact authorities. But that hasn't ever really happened.
So, when you have someone like Tamerlan Tsarnaev standing up in a sermon, interrupting the sermon and then getting mad and angry and calling the minister names because he objected to how he was portraying Dr. Martin Luther King, that didn't raise enough red flags for them to get authorities involved. Instead, they just talked to him. The results of that were, he continued to come to the mosque to pray but he didn't necessarily come back to listen. He wasn't seen very often after that at any other sermons.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, David Mattingly, reporting for us from Boston.
And OUTFRONT next, imagine facing a terrible choice. It's impossible to imagine this choice. But some people have had to make it. Whether or not to amputate your leg. One woman's incredible and courageous story.
And later, Neil Diamond proves why he is a true superstar.
BURNETT: I want to check in with Anderson Cooper now with a look at what's coming up on "A.C. 360" up in Boston.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Erin. We have more late breaking details in the investigation of how and why those two brothers allegedly set off those two bombs here in Boston. Tonight's big question, was New York actually next? New York officials said they believe it was. We'll find out the details on that.
Also tonight, I interview one of the heroes of the blast. Remarkable guy, a firefighter, a paramedic, Matt Patterson is his name, from the Lynn Fire Department. He was off duty that day, having a drink with his girlfriend when the first blast went off. He did what a lot of first responders did who were on duty. He ran right toward the blast.
I'm going to talk with him about how he scooped up a little girl who lost her leg. The sister of Martin Richard, who lost his life, he helped save Martin's sister's life by his quick thinking and his actions. We'll talk to him. Really, the interview that's going to inspire you.
Plus, a new training technique that could potentially prevent other kind of bombings, another Boston marathon bomb from happening -- bomb-sniffing dogs that have the ability to sniff bomb vapors from unbelievable distances. All that at the top of the hour, Erin.
BURNETT: That's amazing about those dogs.
All right. Anderson, we'll look forward to seeing you in a few minutes.
And now, I want to go to tonight's "Outer Circle" briefly, where we reach out to our sources around the world. And tonight, we go to Bangladesh, where rescuers are searching for survivors of a building collapse. Local reports say 254 people have died, others may be at risk.
Sumnima Udas has the latest on the investigation.
SUMNINA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erin, Bangladesh officials say the building which housed a mall, a bank and several factories was not in compliance with safety rules and regulations. The country's high court has ordered the building owners and the owners of the factories to appear in court. Now, some of the workers who survived that building collapse tell CNN that they actually saw massive cracks on the seventh floor of the building on Tuesday, and had expressed their concern, but the factory owners told them there was nothing to worry about, and ordered them to report to work.
Now, more than 36 hours since that building collapsed, scenes of complete desperation as rescue workers are still scrambling to pull out as many survivors as they can. Eyewitnesses tell us they can still hear people yelling from underneath that rubble, asking, crying for help. So far, 2,000 people have been rescued, but many more are still trapped -- Erin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And, of course, people here in the U.S. need to pay close attention to that. That factory, people in there made a lot of clothes that we buy here in the United States.
Well, 14 Boston bombing victims have had at least one limb amputated, completely and utterly changing their lives. That number may still rise.
Heather Abbott was hit by the second blast, just outside the Forum bar. Incredibly quick and brave work by first responders and doctors initially saved her leg, but when surgeons went in for a follow-up look, they saw a lot of damage. And they told her that amputation below the knee might be her best option.
Today, Heather talked about losing her lower leg.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEATHER ABBOTT, BOMBING VICTIM: Although it's something that certainly I wouldn't wish upon myself or anyone else, you know, it's really not as bad as I thought it could have been. I really think I'm going to be able to live my life in a normal way eventually when I get that permanent prosthesis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Incredibly amazing thing to say.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now.
And, Sanjay, why did Heather have to make this decision, and I know also that it was really her decision, right, not necessarily the doctor?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And, typically, it is the patient's decision. I mean, look, Erin, there's going to be some situations where it's just a clear-cut decision, where it's going to be clear that the leg cannot be saved.
On the other side of things, it's going to be very clear that the operations are going to save the leg. What typically happens is you do all the things to restore the bone, stabilize the bone, repair the arteries and nerves, and then you sort of see how is the patient doing, and sometimes the leg just does not regain that function. Sometimes there's just -- it becomes such a source of pain that it sort of creates the decision again, but to your question, it is the patient's decision ultimately.
Erin, this is how her doctor put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ERIC BLUMAN, ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON, BRIGHAM & WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: It's very, very rare that the doctor makes the decision. We do everything to let the patient come to their own decision on this, because values for every separate patient are different, and keeping a limb may be very important to one, while for someone else, I think like Heather, function is paramount.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: It's a heartbreaking and tough decision, as you might imagine. But, you know, the patient usually makes that decision with a lot of guidance and input from the doctors, Erin.
BURNETT: And, Sanjay, I know that Heather was in the hospital for a week before she had to make this choice, this choice that would terrify anyone.
Are there other victims out there who thought they were all right, who think they're going to get through this, who may have to make this decision down the line?
GUPTA: That is quite possible. The scenario is typically this, that the leg was obviously badly injured, everything is being done in terms of preventing infections, stabilizing the bone, all of that again, and then it's a little bit of a wait and see, Erin.
There's no hard and fast rule in terms of how long you wait and see. And as the doctor said, there are some patients who are going to just for all sorts of different reasons, are going to err much more on the side of trying to save the limb. But at some point, again, if the leg is just not regaining function, if it's just -- if it becomes such a source of pain that cannot be controlled, then at that point, the patient may make a decision and that could be, you know, several days or weeks from now.
BURNETT: All right, Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much. Just incredible to watch Heather Abbott, and inspiring. Thank you.
Well, "Sweet Caroline" and an even sweeter gesture by the man who sings it is next.
BURNETT: Thousands of people around the country have been showing their support for Boston by singing and buying Neil Diamond's "Sweet Caroline." It's a Fenway Park staple for the Red Sox, played in every eighth inning of every Red Sox game. Diamond has embraced the tradition, leading the crowd at singing it at last Saturday's Red Sox game.
Nielsen (INAUDIBLE) reports sales of "Sweet Caroline" have scored 600 percent this week after the marathon bombings. It was downloaded more than 19,000 times. Upon learning the news, Diamond tweeted he will donate the royalties to One Fund Boston, a charity that has raised more than $24 million for bombing victims.
As we said, the singer of "Sweet Caroline" doing something even sweeter.
Let's hand it off to Anderson Cooper, because "ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now.