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Jodi Arias Trial

Aired March 4, 2013 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST, JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another shocking sex tape played in open court. Victim, Travis Alexander, speaks from beyond the grave about sex, kinky sex, very kinky sex, even rape.

Jodi`s defense attorneys put this together. Was this stunner a game changer?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A new sex tape of Travis Alexander`s sexual fantasies shakes up the courtroom in the Jodi Arias trial. Travis is heard talking about bondage, rape and dressing up like a park ranger for sex. Was it all fantasy or reality? Did the defense just hit a home run breaking down the prosecutor`s case or is Jodi just trying to rewrite history again? We will debate it and we are taking your calls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were times when you were way up here on this pedestal, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there were other times you were down on the ground being kicked?

ARIAS: He was very tender with it. He was being very careful. He just did what he could to right what he had wronged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis, I thank you for being such an amazing friend.

ARIAS: It was a lot more intense. It was kind of like I was swept off my feet. I was thinking now more in terms of eternity. I didn`t want to have children with someone who could speak to their mother that way. And he said I was more beautiful on the inside. I also believed that he could get better and fixed the parts of him that he considered broken or needed work. It didn`t go quickly. It was drawn out. It was romantic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lots of highs and lots of lows. You were sleeping and you woke up with Mr. Alexander (bleep) inside you.

ARIAS: There were few times when I asserted myself and he checked it very quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying while you were shooting him?

ARIAS: I don`t remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

ARIAS: I felt like we lived an entire lifetime in one year.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, stunning sex tapes and more jaw dropping drama as the defense tries to save Jodi Arias from death row. Will kinky sex requests and a torn diary convince the jury that Jodi only killed her ex- boyfriend in self-defense?

Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.

The 32-year-old aspiring photographer is accused of stabbing her ex- boyfriend 29 times slicing Travis Alexander`s throat ear to ear, practically decapitating it and putting bullet in his head. But she says I did it all in self-defense. I`m a battered woman.

The defense played all of the raunchiest parts of Travis and Jodi`s now infamous sex phone call but this time they made it sound brand new by re- editing it and highlighting only Travis` kinky fantasies. This language is extremely graphic but it was played in open court so listen.


TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDERED: There`s been many times when you have been like miserable and I`ve like raped you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that fantasy or is that reality?

ARIAS: That`s reality but he doesn`t mean like rape like how the law defines it, I don`t think.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: After the jury listened to yet another round of this filthy phone sex tape, Jodi turned the witness stand into a stage standing up and showing the torn pages of her controversial diary claiming she didn`t write any of her salacious claims that Travis hit her or that he pleasured himself to photos of young boys because of something called the law of attraction. Are you kidding me?

Call me, 1877-jvm-says. 1877-586-7297.

Straight out to our own senior producer, Selin Darkalstanian.

You were in court for the sexually graphic and extremely dramatic day. Take us there.

SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, SENIOR PRODUCER, JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL SHOW: Jane, I think the most powerful thing that we saw today the defense open with was that he heard a phone sex call that we heard before in the last few weeks. We heard this phone sex between Travis and Jodi. But today, with the defense state, is we heard it but we also had the letters up on the big screens in court. So, as black background, a white clear letters, the jury was looking at the screen and reading the words that Travis was telling Jodi. So, while we were hearing Travis tell Jodi I raped you and he is saying all these sexual stuff and he is teaching her these words and she`s, like, what does that mean, and he was the aggressor. We are seeing the words pop up on the screen and that was really powerful because his voices sometimes muscled in his phone sex audio tape. But today, we heard it and we read it. And that was extremely powerful sitting in court.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And now we`re going to debate is that fair game to re-edit a phone sex tape and only use one person`s voice or is that dirty play? We are going to debate it with our expert panel. Jodi again, using the battered women defense suggesting Travis sexually degraded her.

OK, now. Let`s show you something. The prosecutor showed text from Jodi. This is back in the prosecution`s case where she`s begging Travis for spankings. They wanted to prove, the prosecution did, that Jodi was the one who corrupted Travis sexually. Well now, the defense has reedited the Jodi and Travis x-rated sex tape in an effort to prove no, Travis is the one who is demanding the kinky triple x-rated sex. He is the aggressor. Listen.


ALEXANDER: I want to give you (bleep).

ARIAS: What`s that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you know what it was that he was talking about?

ARIAS: No, I didn`t know what that term meant.

ALEXANDER: Where I blow my (bleep) right just like a quarter inch your (bleep).


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, now, you take away those orange reductions and Melissa, you got some filthy, filthy language, filthy sex talk. So, let me debate it with my expert panel. We have defense. We have pro-prosecution.

I will start with the prosecutor, Stacey Honowitz. Is it fair for the defense to re-edited tape, take out everything she said pretty much and just keep his dirty nasty language? Why did the -- Should the judge have allowed it?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, listen. In court, there`s something called the doctrine of completeness. That means, you don`t get to hear just one side. So maybe, he is going to get back up and we are going to hear the other side.

But the fact of the matter is, Jane, we all have heard for the last 15 days that they both liked kinky sex. So what. It has nothing to do with the claim of self-defense because there hasn`t been any evidence of self- defense. So, the fact that we are hearing that he wants to do dirty things with her, we already heard that she wanted to participate on her own consensually. So, I don`t think this made a difference. It`s really grasping at straws in my book.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, OK. Here is our poll, could Jodi`s defense team repair damage from last week, 94 percent say no but there is at six percent that said yes.

ALL RIGHT, Jayne Weintraub for the defense.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It only takes one juror, remember that. This is a death penalty case. One juror. And the reality is it`s not even so much what Jodi is saying now. It`s how she`s acting. It`s her demeanor. It`s the way she`s perceived. I think this power point today was extremely powerful with the video and the letters at the same time. As your producer said, it gives the impact of what she was perceiving. Is it dirty pool? No, Jane. She`s on trial for death, not just life but possibly death. So no, it`s not dirty pool. This is really what was on the text. They`re not re-editing. They are not changing the words.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, they are re-editing.

These are gimmicks. Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Jon Lieberman. It was re-edited to the point where I first thought I heard it and oh, my God, this is new. How can they introduce something new?

WEINTRAUB: The prosecutor takes something out of context and that`s OK.

JON LIEBERMAN: Here`s the bottom line. These are gimmicks. And these gimmicks, they can pull out all the gimmicks in the world because the reality is their client is a proven liar over and over and over again. There is absolutely no corroborating evidence that she felt fear, that she felt fearful of Travis other than her words and we know she`s a liar and we know that she didn`t just wake up one day -- let me finish. We know she didn`t wake up one day and decide to tell the truth on the stand despite the fact that she`s lied and lied and lied. Corroboration, there`s no pictures. There`s no forensics. There`s nothing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen. I think the journal entries were some of the more effective things the defense brought in and Danny Cevallos, basically, she said well, I didn`t write down that he beat me, that he broke my finger. That he`s pleasuring himself to pictures of young boys allegedly purportedly. Remember, he`s not here to speak for himself because he`s dead. Because I believe in the law of attraction. And if I write that down in my diary then it`s going to come to pass. I mean, oh my God. This is -- you know, hello. Back to planet earth. But yet, it could be effective with one juror.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, look. It`s her diary.


DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: People choose to put whatever in their diary they choose to. You take a look at facebook. We don`t know we supposed the horrific things in our life. We post pictures of our vacation and isn`t everything wonderful. So, why is it a shock that she chose to leave out the bad in the diary. Look. It comes down to credibility. And when it comes to that audio tape, it is the monster that --

Well, that`s the jury determination. The juries in the room, will make that determination. Fine, we will see.

But, you know, so many other cases we have said this is slam dunk. It`s over. Remember, the prosecution has to prove each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt including and the jury will be told this, including the lack of that self-defense justification. So, you have to ask yourself, how confident do you feel that there`s no -- that beyond any reasonable doubt that justification doesn`t apply here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to bring in Jean Casarez, correspondent "In Session."

Listen to this. Jean Casarez, I want to ask a question. I`m wondering has the judge lost control of this case. We`re on day 14. And we are now hearing reedited versions of the sex tapes which the judge allowed in.

Now, part of me goes, this is a runaway freight train. She`s lost control. I said it before there were Broadway shows that have had shorter runs than this woman on the stand. The other part of me says this is possibly the prosecution`s fault for going after the death penalty because once you go after the death penalty, you have to give this woman a chance to tell her story. So if she wants to go on for a year, I suppose she could go on for a year because she is facing death or else --.

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Or else you could have an appellate issue most definitely. As the U.S. Supreme Court said death is different. And - so, I don`t think there`s any limit beyond reason. But, I do want to say that in regard to what he saw on the screen today, that was very strong and it`s demonstrative only which means, it is not evident. The defense was just allowed to use it to demonstrate their point. That will not go back to the jury.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s go quickly to the phone line.

Pam in California, your question or thought, Pam?

PAM, CALLER, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Jane. How are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m good. What`s your question or thought?

PAM: Excuse me. I`m battling here with this cold.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead and ask a question.

PAM: I have a couple of just comments. The sad thing is she stood up to her mother, 16 years of beating her supposedly with a spoon or something. She beat this kid but she stood up to her and told her you`re stupid and go home. Secondly, if Travis --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think I`m getting your point. Something is going on over there with Pam. But, thank you for calling, Pam.

I think what she`s saying is that this woman has stood up to her mom and said don`t beat me with a spoon. So, wouldn`t she have the where with all to say, Travis, cut it out.

So much happening in court today. Another huge day and we`re just getting started. Listen to this.


ARIAS: He was just squeezing very tightly but it didn`t hurt. There was a point in October, late October, where he pushed me down on the ground in his bedroom, but I landed on my knees. I didn`t fall over or anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was his reason for pushing you over?

ARIAS: We were arguing and I got up to leave and he wasn`t done making his point and he wanted me to say so he could finish yelling at me.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been many times when you have been like miserable and I`ve like raped you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that fantasy or reality?

ARIAS: That`s reality but he doesn`t mean like rape like how the law defines it I don`t think.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So that was the shocker in court late this afternoon reedited sex tape that featured Travis talking very, very dirty about rape fantasies. I want to bring in a very special guest, Tanya Young Williams, who is many things, an attorney as well as the spokesperson for national domestic violence hotline and the estranged wife of Jayson Williams, a basketball star convicted of aggravated assault in shooting death of a limo driver. And you say you are also an abuse victim and I applaud you for having the courage to speak out, Tanya.

Does something like a rape fantasy, does that look like abuse in a relationship? Is that connected to abuse or are those two totally irrelevant and not related things?

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, CELEBRITY, SPOKESPERSON, NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: If it were a witness or defendant who was actually abused, it would be very relevant. Jane, I must say first and foremost, as an advocate for victims and survivors and spokesperson for the hotline, I have never taken a position that I now take with respect to Ms. Jodi Arias.

Based on her testimony and her actions up until today, she has not seemed to be that of a victim. But, I don`t want to sound crass. But, it seems as if she and her defense has gone over the report of their expert over the witness. And they have helped her, shift her testimony, as well as her demeanor, so that it will align with the opinion of the expert who is going to come in the next couple days.

There`s been a very -- it may seem subtle, but there`s been a very strategic and drastic change in what Jodi Arias is saying. And it is much more consistent with what you would hear from a victim of domestic violence wherein she`s covering up for his actions. She`s not making him responsible for these alleged deviant acts.

So, just today for the first time, she`s saying and acting in a way that would be consistent with someone who has been victimized by domestic violence but we haven`t seen that Jodi Arias before.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in ad see -- I want just make sure I`m getting you right. You say that now she is in this later phase of the trial trying to come in and sort of paint herself in a way and act in a way she knows domestic violence victims act. What they do is they cover up for their husband or boyfriend. They say it wasn`t so bad. They don`t write it in their journal entries. And she`s trying to put herself in that category so an expert can come on and say, look, she`s still defending him. She`s still saying she loves him. She`s protecting the abuser. That`s what battered women do. Is that what you`re saying she`s doing as a strategy?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. That`s exactly what I`m saying. She`s a manipulator. She`s smart. And as your expert lawyers will say, she knows what`s in the reports. And they are using this today. We never heard this from Jodi Arias. I said on other HLN programs that it bothered me that she would say I liked him. But today, for the first time, we hear her attorney saying love, love, love because that`s consistent with victims. They stay in relationships because they have this love that others otherwise would not understand. This is a very strategic move they are moving today and it might actually work. But, it`s a new Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s interesting. It`s a new Jodi Arias but there were diary entries that we heard before this where she said she was madly in love with him. So, it`s always been there but they`re bringing it right up front and center as part of their strategy to paint her as battered woman.

Up next, we are going to continue to take your calls and the woman many compare to Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony is back. You won`t believe it this time.

Yes, she`s back. Take a look at this. This happened just hours ago. She`s out on the streets after years of hiding. We are going to tell you about that and connect it to this case as we continue to focus in on Jodi Arias on the other side.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You write that Travis, you`re beautiful on the inside and out. Did you mean that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you also say you always told me that. Did Travis tell you that you were beautiful on the inside and out as well? Is that what you`re saying there?

ARIAS: Yes. He said I was more beautiful on the inside.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And to Tanya Young Williams` point there, she`s lasting poetic now, making her relationship with Travis sound kind of romantic and how she was infatuated with him and wanted to please him. And they introduced the sex tape audio and then, the defense is trying to use that to point out that Jodi played along with Travis` kinky degrading fantasy when it came to sex because she was so in love with him she wanted to please him. Listen to this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to tie your arms around a tree, blindfold you and put a camera on a timer while I (bleep) you. I`m going to get some great shots. I mean, it could be like legitimate porn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having him give you this (bleep) and making quote- unquote "legitimate porn," was that something you were willing to do to please him?

ARIAS: I was willing to do that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, whatever you think about her guilt or innocence, this is nasty stuff. Let`s face it. And I`m wondering and I would like to debate it with my expert panel, could we have some form of jury nullification here or could we also have, let`s say, couple of hold out jurors who felt they have established a relationship with Jodi Arias be afraid to convict of her murder one because once she convicted murder one, that starts the penalty phase as they might be afraid, I can`t be the only holdout pushing against death. So, I`m not going to go for murder one at all because I`m afraid that I`ll get the squeeze during the death penalty phase and I`ve established a relationship with her and after these tapes I don`t want to see her put to death.

Let`s start with Jenny Weintraub on that.

WEINTRAUB: Yes, that can happen in a death case. I wouldn`t be surprise. But remember, can I address something else you said about the experts. She didn`t come up with the story today or this misdemeanor today. This story was told to her experts months and months and months ago, maybe years ago. Her defense lawyers went and found experts that then rendered reports maybe a year ago. The prosecutor has it all of this information. This is not a newly fabricated story.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I would like to go back to my initial point and let me bring in Danny Cevallos because I think this is really important. We`ve got 14 days on the stand. People a developing -- I thought more about her relationship with Travis and I think about my own relationships at this point. She has spent that much time in my head. Don`t you think it`s difficult for some people to put her to death and could she be afraid to vote for murder one.

CEVALLOS: Every day, Jane. Every minute she`s on the stand is another day these jurors get to know Jodi Arias. And before everyone is quick to convict her. Remember, they are actually without any other jury nullifications, there are three possibilities. And only one of them is guilty. One is not guilty because they believe the justification defense. And the other is not guilty, the prosecution hasn`t met their steep burden. Just mathematically, Jodi Arias has a fighting chance as shocks as that is to everybody.

HONOWITZ: Jane, can I say something?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Stacey Honowitz. Hold on.

HONOWITZ: The fact of the matter is if we all had a crystal ball, none of us, we are veteran trial lawyers, none of us can predict what a jury is going to do. You keep asking so, they ask you the death penalty can still work. If you didn`t ask with the death penalty in a case like this, you would say the prosecutor is a wimp. They almost beheaded him. Why aren`t you looking for the death penalty? We have seen and the jurors have seen - - The jurors have seen her attitude on direct versus her attitude on cross. She`s no shrinking violet. She went toe to toe with the prosecutor and these jurors I don`t think are going to be scared if they have figured out she`s less than credible.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, John Lieberman.

Well, to Stacey`s point two, I mean, the longer she stays up there, the longer the jury could hate her as well and continue to hate her more. They`re not necessarily bonding with her. She had memory lapses all throughout cross-examination. You didn`t see memory lapses today. I mean jury can see through that sort of behavior. She`s a different Jodi depending on what day she`s on the stand.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I wonder if there`s a study that the longer somebody stays on the stand who is a defendant, the less chance that the people who are judging them want to have them put to death. I don`t know if there is such a study. It would be fascinating because most of the decisions people make are subconscious. It`s knots rationale thought. It`s subconscious that guides us and that, of course, is the secret to all sorts of shocking behavior including verdicts. Including the Casey Anthony verdict. Another huge day in court. We have more of the biggest moments on the other side.

At 8:00, Nancy is live in Phoenix at the top of the hour. Don`t want to miss that. Stay right there. We`re taking your calls.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been many times when you have been, like miserable and I`ve like raped you.

Is that fantasy or is that reality?

That`s reality but he doesn`t mean, like, rape you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that fantasy or is that reality.

ARIAS: That`s a reality but he doesn`t mean, like rape, like how the law defines it, I don`t think.



JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I felt like I began to love him early on. He believed in me. As I got to know him, my love for him grew. He made me feel like I was a beautiful person inside.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: Can you imagine how much it must have hurt Mr. Alexander when you stuck that knife right into his chest?

ARIAS: There`s just no reason to be upset over this in my mind.

When he wanted phone sex or something like this, he was really nice. I liked that side of him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sounds you made on the tape, did you fake it?

ARIAS: I was faking them. Sorry. It`s kind of embarrassing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sexual relations in the bathtub?


I may be the only person that will ever be able to say what happened that day. All things will be made known. I know that I`m innocent.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Every day there`s a shocker in this trial. Today -- no exception. Toward the end of the day the defense presented -- voila -- what at first sounded like a new sex tape and then we were listening to it, wait a second, we heard that somewhere before. It turned out that they had re-edited the now infamous sex tape between Jodi and Travis to basically eliminate Jodi and just emphasize all of the nasty, raunchy things Travis said. Listen to some of them.


TRAVIS ALEXANDER, MURDER VICTIM: I could (EXPLETIVE DELETED) at any moment put my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in every orifice of your body.

I want to get some like, Park Ranger type outfits for me to wear. Oh honey that was huge. I just did like 15 (EXPLETIVE DELETED) which is surprising because you know, I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) this morning. Seriously I could (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You write that, "Travis, you`re beautiful on the inside and out." Did you mean that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you also say you always told me that. Did Travis tell you that you were beautiful on the inside and out as well? Is that what you`re saying there?

ARIAS: Yes. He said I was more beautiful on the inside.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, she kind of mixes and matches. In between all of the nasty things that she`s playing of Travis Alexander`s voice saying very raunchy things, she`s also tweeting and writing about how she loved him so much in her diary.

I want to go to Tanya Young Williams, celebrity spokesperson, National Domestic Violence Hotline, while we`ve been on I understand or at some point as people are watching this you are getting tweets from people saying I can relate to Jodi Arias. I`ve experienced the same thing.

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, CELEBRITY SPOKESPERSON, NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE: Jane, many victims reach out to me on Twitter or Facebook and we`re discussing the Jodi Arias trial because domestic violence is a part of this trial. What they`re sharing is, you know, I`ve experienced what she`s on the stand lying about but having experience in the wildest imaginations they`re still not prone to murder their abuser.

But what I do explain to them is don`t be like Jodi or supposedly Jodi is. Reach out to someone. Call the hotline. Confide in a friend. When I had my experience with domestic violence -- and I had a very public life -- I couldn`t tell certain people. But I always reached out to a girlfriend that said guess what; a chair went through my window today.

When you are the victim of, there is some way you want to let it out and listening to Jodi Arias, there`s no outlet for her, which makes me think she hasn`t experienced it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating stuff. Let`s go out to the phone lines. Kristi, Indiana, your question or thought? Kristi, Indiana.

KRISTI, INDIANA (via telephone): Hi, Jane. First of all I would like to thank you for what you do to protect our animal friends.


KRISTI: I`m not sure how (inaudible) but I was hoping someone maybe on your panel could help explain the prosecution is going to have the opportunity to close the curtain on this well rehearsed play and put everything back in perspective and bring it back to reality.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a great question for Jean Casarez. Ok. What is going to happen next? Will the prosecution have an opportunity down the line to get their two cents back in?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, Jane, I could not hear what the caller said. Can you repeat the question?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The question is you`ve got the defense now basically rehabilitating Jodi Arias after this intense cross-examination she had last week and basically telling her sides of the story again. When will the prosecution have an opportunity to get back in there and try to set the record straight according to this caller?

CASAREZ: Possibly closing arguments. Here`s the law in Arizona. Traditionally there is no recross-examination so the prosecutor can`t come back in. Now, if something new has been brought up, and new things were brought up today, the prosecutor can request of the judge to re-examine Jodi Arias and it`s the judge`s discretion. They can allow it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait a second. Now, there is no chance now for the prosecution to recross-examine her but can`t they put on a rebuttal case after the defense finishes the defense case?



CASAREZ: Sure. Sure.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So they can come back. They may not be able to cross examine her but they can come back and try to maybe even present some witnesses, right, that might figure out exactly what`s going on with this domestic violence -- is it real or is it not?

CASAREZ: Yes. And legally, they have a burden with that rebuttal case. They`ve got to show beyond a reasonable doubt that there`s no self- defense here so they better put on some witnesses.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, we have an extraordinary guest, Jodi Arias` co-worker is going to talk to us and try to explain and get inside the mind of this woman. That`s right on the other side, so please stay right there.


MARTINEZ: What factors influence your having a memory problem?

ARIAS: Usually when men like you are screaming at me or grilling me or someone like Travis doing the same.

MARTINEZ: So that affects your memory problems, right?

ARIAS: It makes my brain scramble.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we continue to cover Jodi Arias, guess who is back in the news? Yes, that`s right. Casey Anthony for the first time since 2011, Casey Anthony was out in public today. She was caught on camera entering a Florida courthouse for her bankruptcy hearing and we only got a brief glimpse of her as Cheney Mason had her in a headlock as they pushed past a crowd of cameras.

Take a look at her there. Oh my gosh. It reminds me of when she was released on bail all those many years ago except that was Jose Baez. Now it`s Cheney Mason. Unbelievable day in court.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa. You know, there`s nothing like watching Jodi Arias on that witness stand. I mean, it is a one-woman show and now we`re going to go to a woman who knows this performer. A lot of people feel she`s performing on the stand very well.

We`re delighted to have a former co-worker of Jodi Arias` who is going to only go by her first name, Veronica. You used to work, Veronica, with Jodi at a restaurant in Palm Desert. We`ll leave it at that. Thank you so much for joining us. We`re happy to have you on. Are you there? Veronica?

VERONICA, FORMER CO-WORKER OF JODI ARIAS (via telephone): Thank you so much.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Sure. You have a lot to say about Jodi on the witness stand. Take it away. What are your thoughts as you look at this woman and listen to this woman that you know from a completely different situation, working together.

VERONICA: Ok. Jodi is -- the only thing missing here is the rabbit in the pot, ok. She was so absolutely engrossed with him. If she could not get him on that telephone before going into her work, she would not go into work. She had to know where he was, what he was doing, everything. I mean she ran the show. She was the manipulator here. Not him. She was going after him, running after him.

I would tell her, I would say, Jodi, leave him alone. Stop throwing yourself at him. If you really want this man, what are you doing? She would say "I got to go get him, Veronica. I`m going to be with him forever. We`re going to have a family together." And in fact she would leave work at the end of the night sometimes at 11:00 we would get out and she would drive over there straight to Arizona. Five hours after working a shift.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my God. You made a reference to fatal attraction. Are you essentially saying that she`s a fatal attraction case that in other words, that this was obsessive love and when he decided that he was going to take another woman who wasn`t even really that interested in him to Cancun on vacation, do you think that`s what caused her to snap?

VERONICA: Absolutely. I`ll tell you, I`ll tell you what I heard. Remember when she was calling his telephone and leaving messages on his phone after she killed him and she was making all, "Yes, we`re going to go have lunch and you come back from Cancun and then we`re going to go have fun."

She kept mentioning Cancun. That is the spot. That is what threw her into a tizzy. It was all premeditated. She was prepared. She went down there prepared. She knew what she was going to do but she was going to give him a chance. Going to give him a chance -- give him a chance to change his mind.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this -- Veronica, Veronica -- Let me ask you this question. You`re watching her on the stand and you know, different people have different reactions. A lot of people even if they can`t stand her and think she`s guilty find her mesmerizing. Did she have some kind of a weird charisma or any kind of like special attractiveness or seductiveness when you worked with her?

VERONICA: Jodi had what I would refer to as flat affect. She could be so far in deep in trouble at work and not blink an eye. She would go into that haze, that flat affect, no emotion, nothing showing, big deal. Not going to harm her. Not going to hurt her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, what do you think of these phone sex tapes? Because let`s face it some people are saying well, we might think she`s guilty but it does reveal a side of the victim that is -- well certainly not the chaste Mormon that he presented himself to the world as. Your thoughts on that -- Veronica?

VERONICA: Well, he led her to a spiritual path and then she led him down through the path of hedonism. She was going to show him what she knew. And maybe she wasn`t on his intellectual level but boy she was sure going to show him another level that maybe she could entice him into.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, do you think that most people are going to see it your way or given her performance on the stand, do you think that people might be swayed by her tears and her demonstrations and the diaries and the phone sex. What do you think is going to happen here, Veronica?

VERONICA: Everyone has their own level of common sense. And, you know, the large range at that. I`m telling you, if you have a lick of common sense and you look at it with both eyes open, you can`t help but find that she -- it was premeditated murder. She slit him ear to ear. She was going to teach him a lesson.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Veronica, let me ask you real quickly, you were explaining that she was obsessed while you were working with her. She would drive all these many miles to see him. That she would talk about him. Did the prosecutor ever call you about being a witness?

VERONICA: No. I have no interest in being a witness. I am --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I`m not saying what you had -- I`m saying did they ever call you?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. Ok. I want to thank you, Veronica, for your thoughts and your insight -- fascinating, fascinating stuff. I hope you come back real soon as this trial progresses.

On the other side, we`re going to debate with our expert panel whether maybe the prosecution should call -- should have called somebody like Veronica or Veronica herself who has a very clear cut image to paint of this woman. That`s on the other side.


MARTINEZ: Would you agree that you`re the person who actually slit Mr. Alexander`s throat from ear to ear?




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to Molly, I love your scarf. Where did you get it? Who are you wearing? Oh, Jack, regal; regal but not a beagle. No, he isn`t. And Chloe and Jack -- some more scarves, gorgeous couple -- gorgeous. How long have you guys been together? And Bella with a rose -- oh, what a classic beauty you are.



ARIAS: The way he would look at me sometimes, compliments he would give me. There are a few times when I asserted myself and he checked it very quickly. He had all the candles everywhere and rose petals and there was music.

At first I felt more like a chastised child. Eventually it began to instill fear and intimidation.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s debate it with our expert panel. Is she doing -- setting up the whole push/pull, the typical pattern of a battered woman. Oh, it`s like the classic the husband beats up the wife and then gives her flowers. Is she setting that up with these comments about how nice Travis could be, but then he could be intimidating. Oh, but he could be really wonderful, make me feel good inside. Oh, but he could hit me.

Jayne Weintraub, is this like teeing up the ball and then they say that`s what battered women do?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that is what`s going to happen, I suppose. But also, Jane, just remember, why do you think we have a name or a syndrome called battered wife syndrome? Because it really happens. Why do you think we have domestic violence? Because it happens and there aren`t corroborating witnesses. Just like in rape cases we don`t have witnesses watching.


WEINTRAUB: It`s like the Stockholm syndrome. Why are you surprised that she loved him?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to bring in Tanya Young for that because you were an abuse victim yourself. You`re not buying it, though, right?

WILLIAMS: No. No. Absolutely I`m not buying it.

WEINTRAUB: Because women are hard on other women, Jane.

WILLIAMS: That`s not true. No, let me explain because I am an advocate and I speak to thousands of women about this. This is the first time I`m taking this position.

Let me be very clear, when you are a victim of domestic violence, you look for an outlet whether it`s your personal journal, whether you call the hotline or a friend. Jodi has exhibited none of that. I`m not hard on Jodi because she`s a victim. I am angry because she is using this as a card and domestic violence is not -- battered woman`s syndrome is also -- listen --

WEINTRAUB: She wasn`t looking enough to have a friend.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.

WEINTRAUB: It`s ridiculous.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right there.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s wrap it up with the guys. Danny, a couple of seconds.

DANNY: Look, let`s just remember, reasonable doubt. That`s what the prosecution has to prove, to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt. And has she done that in this capital case? Are they prepared to kill her?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jon Leiberman, final word?

JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Let`s remember this, Jane, Travis Alexander is the victim not Jodi Arias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And to think that really kind of bugs me is that the defense is using Travis Alexander`s voice speaking from beyond the grave, as it were, against him. And you`ve got to imagine that his family sitting there is just steamed and devastated over that. It`s such a bizarre, surreal situation.

Nancy next from Arizona.