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President Obama Nominates Chuck Hagel for Defense Secretary; Colorado Theater Shooting Suspect in Court

Aired January 7, 2013 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Big show ahead. We have Piers Morgan on deck. He'll join me live, responding for first time on the air to those asking the White House to deport him. Of course, this is all over a stance on gun control. We'll have that coming up.

And we'll speak with Joe Namath about tonight's big game. Perhaps you heard, Notre Dame, Alabama, that's all coming up.

But, first, we have to talk Washington.

Battle-weary, but not backing down, the president is setting himself up for another Capitol Hill confirmation. This time, it's not over money here, but over the men he wants to lead both the Pentagon and the CIA.

This afternoon, President Obama nominated Chuck Hagel to be his next secretary of defense and John Brennan to be his next CIA director. We're going to get to John Brennan here momentarily.

But the bigger battle will be over former Senator of Nebraska Chuck Hagel. The president says his top intelligence foreign adviser is the best man for the job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the Senate, I came to admire his courage and his judgment, his willingness to speak his mind, even if it wasn't popular, even if it defied the conventional wisdom.

And that's exactly the spirit I want on my national security team, a recognition that when it comes to the defense of our country, we are not Democrats or Republicans. We are Americans.

Each of us has a responsibility, Chuck has said, to be guided not by the interests of our party or our president even, but by the interests of our country.

So, Chuck, I thank you and Lilibet for agreeing to serve once more.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: Mr. President, I'm grateful for this opportunity to serve this country again, and especially its men and women in uniform and their families. These are people who give so much to this nation every day, with such dignity and selflessness. This is particularly important at a time as we complete our mission in Afghanistan and support the troops and military families who have sacrificed so much over more than a decade of war.

I'm also grateful for an opportunity to help continue to strengthen our country and strengthen our country's alliances and advance global freedom, decency and humanity, as we help build a better world for all mankind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So who is Chuck Hagel? He is a Republican from Nebraska, served on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, also served in Vietnam, where he earned not just one, but two Purple Hearts and now he's the target of many, many critics who say Chuck Hagel should not be secretary of defense because he has spoken out against gay people, sanctions against Iran, has been weak in his support for Israel.

My next guest is among Hagel's critics. He is Philip Terzian. He's a literary editor at "The Weekly Standard."

Philip, welcome to you.

PHILIP TERZIAN, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": Welcome. Hello.

BALDWIN: You say -- I read your piece -- you said the fight really is on over this nomination, but you're putting your personal opinions, policy aside here. You write that Hagel is an eccentric choice. Give me one big reason why he's so eccentric.

TERZIAN: Well, I think listening to President Obama's praise of him today suggested he's more suited to be head of the Department of Veterans Affairs, rather than the Department of Defense.

Secretaries of defense, since the consolidation of the services in the late 1940s, have usually been the senior statesmen, bipartisan politicians who are much loved on either side of the aisle, or very successful businessman or defense intellectuals.

Chuck Hagel really falls into none of those categories. I honor his service in Vietnam. But the fact is that we have millions of veterans in America, and I don't think that...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But never at the helm of the Pentagon.

TERZIAN: Well, we have had lots of veterans who are at the helm...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Right, Vietnam specifically, right.

TERZIAN: Also, I think the fact that the fact that Senator Hagel served in Vietnam is admirable, but I don't think that means much to the infantrymen in Afghanistan. The Vietnam War ended 40 years ago. It is as remote to them as World War I was to me growing up.

BALDWIN: Let me -- I know we said let's put personal aside. But let's get a little personal, because Wolf talked a little while ago to -- Wolf Blitzer talked to Chuck Hagel's friend last hour and he said Chuck Hagel has the experience. He does. He would disagree with you, that he does have the experience to run a large organization, i.e. the Department of Defense. Here's what he told Wolf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE CLEMONS, PUBLISHER: He saved the USO from bankruptcy. He was the president of it in 1987 to 1990. He's a businessman and run other large organizations very successfully.

He has -- he's one of the bluntest people I know. Blunt may not always be great, but he's very blunt. He's very fair. He's judicious. He's unsentimental in the sense that he doesn't let emotion get the best of him. He calculates what is I think in the best interests of the organization he's running.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So perhaps his willingness to speak up candidly, albeit bluntly, may not be a bad thing, so says this longtime friend of the senator's. You disagree?

TERZIAN: Well, I disagree only the sense that I don't really understand under what circumstances he would do this.

Being secretary of defense means two things. It means heading a vast defense establishment and bureaucracy, something that Chuck Hagel has never done. It also means dealing with Congress, and Senator Hagel was a -- for good or ill, a famously choleric senator who didn't have particularly too many friends on the Democratic side, and has now probably made some enemies on the Republican side.

I just think that the president, in -- I think the president's choice of Hagel is symbolic based on Hagel's skepticism about the Iraq war. And I just don't think that that's enough to sustain the very serious business of being the head of the very large and complicated defense establishment.

BALDWIN: Philip Terzian, you're not alone in your criticism. We appreciate you coming on and we will see how the confirmation hearing goes here for the senator. Thank you.

TERZIAN: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Some of the country's biggest banks about to pay up big time, and some of that cash actually may be going to you.

(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

BALDWIN: And we have spent so much time talking about the big economic issues, of course. Just mentioned fiscal cliff. You have taxes, deficit. But items we all use every day going to cost a little bit more this year. And that will certainly get our attention.

With that, here is Christine Romans -- Christine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, here's what you can expect to pay more for in 2013. You probably already noticed your grocery bill is rising because of the drought last year. Grains like corn are more expensive and corn prices affect everything from cereal to snack foods and feed for livestock.

The USDA says meat prices will rise win 3 percent and 4 percent this year. Also moving higher, rent prices -- rental rates rose more than 5 percent in December compared with a year ago. That's according to Trulia. More people are choosing to rent instead of own and that means landlords have the upper hand.

Shipping costs will rise by about 4 percent on average. That's according to CNN Money, as the U.S. Postal Service struggles with its budget problems. The cost for stamps is going up by one penny on January 27.

And commuters using public transportation can expect higher subway, bus and train fares in major cities this year. Chicago Transit Authority fares will jump as much as 120 percent on January 14.

Wages and incomes, Brooke, are barely budging. And the expiration of the payroll tax holiday means a worker earning 50 grand a year will have roughly $40 less in each biweekly paycheck. So the rising costs of those goods and services will have some extra bite this year -- Brooke.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: More than 100,000 people have signed this online petition to kick Piers Morgan out of America for his stance on gun control. Well, Piers will join me live for his very first on-air response.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. The news is now.

(voice-over): One of the people closest to the president set to lead the nation's spies -- what John Brennan needs for the future of the controversial drone program.

Plus, think of it as the "going out of business" sale. Wait until you hear what NASA is trying to sell from the space shuttle program.

And it is the match that has got everyone talking -- tonight, the Irish vs. the Tide. Game on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Absolutely horrifying testimony here in the preliminary hearing for James Holmes in Colorado. He was accused of killing 12 people and wounding dozens more in that military-style assault last summer inside that movie theater in Aurora, Colorado.

He faces in total 166 counts. This preliminary hearing, they say, should last a bunch of days.

Lonnie Phillips lost his step daughter in that rampage and joins me now from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Mr. Phillips, thank you for coming on. I am sorry about Jessica.

Let me just first begin with why not -- why not go to today's hearing?

LONNIE PHILLIPS, FATHER OF VICTIM: My wife decided that we really wouldn't be able to stand the emotion involved. And she was right.

We got a call from -- we have people there that we communicate with. And one of the police officers testified today that he was the one that picked up our daughter. She was still alive. He took her to the hospital, where she died. And that's one of the reasons that Jessica Ghawi's name was one of the first out there, because she was the only one that the public knew that had actually died.

BALDWIN: So to be sitting in that court and hearing that from that police officer would, I'm sure, be gut-wrenching for you. I understand why you have chosen not to be there, though it sounds like you are staying in touch with people.

From what I understand, more than 100 family members, friends of some of those victims are there, either in the court or in a standing room. What else are they telling you?

PHILLIPS: Well, there's 150-plus people there, victims and family members. We have six family members from the Aurora theater massacre.

And we're in touch. We had one come out at lunch and give me an update. It is very emotional and traumatic in that courtroom, and that's why Sandy and I chose not to go. We're getting a lot of updates from the family members. We do want to go to one of the hearings, and that would be the one where he's sentenced.

BALDWIN: Speaking of him -- and I won't mention his name again, but the shooter -- if he were sitting in front of you right now...

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: ... would you have anything to say to him?

PHILLIPS: Not really.

Sandy and I, from the onset, have not been focused on the shooter. We're going to let the justice system deal with him. We trust that. Fortunately, we don't have any hatred toward him. He is a troubled soul. And our main goal now is to try to prevent further atrocities, massacres by doing something in the legislature to prevent these massacres from occurring over and over and over again.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. I understand you're going to Washington, sir, tomorrow to meet with the vice president. What do you hope to accomplish?

PHILLIPS: I hope to put a face and some emotion into the appeal to the American people to please not be apathetic toward this problem that our country has, and let's do something about some sensible gun laws, and to tell the American people that we do not want to take guns away.

I have a shotgun to protect my home. I don't plan on giving it up. But I would like to see assault weapons, high-capacity magazines, background checks, those three factors, if we could get something done, I think we would be going a long way as a country to improve what we're facing now with these massacres that are occurring all too rapidly in our society.

BALDWIN: Yes. I'm sick of hearing them, sick of covering them.

Lonnie Phillips, thank you for coming on. I would love to have you back on. I would love to hear how the meeting guys with the vice president, who I know has been meeting with had group trying to figure out if change is possible in Washington. Thank you, sir, so much. I appreciate it.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I want to talk more now just about the hearing itself.

Let me bring in CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin.

Sunny, on the legal side, the defense is apparently planning on introducing this concept. It is called diminished capacity. What is that?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure. It is important to distinguish diminished capacity with insanity, Brooke, because so many people are sort of mixing up the two.

Insanity, sort of that defense is typically not very successful and it is also in a way a "get out of jail free" card, many believe, right, because if you're insane, then you're not responsible for your actions. In Colorado, diminished capacity is a bit different. It is an affirmative defense. It doesn't mean you're not culpable, that you're not responsible for the criminal act. But it does mean that you just couldn't fully comprehend the nature of the crime and what is important in this case is that means then that you may be guilty of a lesser charge.

As you mentioned in the opening, we're talking about 166 counts. So if he gets to plead guilty to, let's say, manslaughter, as opposed to murder, that goes a long way, because the district attorney has not determined whether or not to seek the death penalty. And so all of that kind of factors in. Does this become a death penalty case? If it is a diminished capacity case, perhaps not, because we don't send the mentally ill to death. And so I think you can't really, you know, say enough about how important this defense is to James Holmes, this diminished capacity defense.

That's what we're hearing about, those of us that are following this hearing today. We're hearing a lot of evidence coming in on both sides trying to frame that particular issue, the issue of mental illness.

BALDWIN: I'm still back on Lonnie Phillips describing the shooter as a tortured soul.

HOSTIN: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: Awful. Sunny Hostin, thank you so much.

HOSTIN: Thanks.

BALDWIN: And this, think of it as spring cleaning, couple of months early, though, NASA looking to unload items from its space shuttle program. Chad Myers and I, we're going to show you what they're trying to get rid of. Some of the stuff, you may not believe -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I love this next story. Space geek alert here. Are you in the market for a 15,000-foot runway? How about a slightly used launchpad?

Good luck, because if you are, all you have to do is give NASA a call. They have a lot more where that came from apparently. "The Orlando Sentinel" is reporting that NASA is quietly putting, maybe not so quietly anymore, most of the Kennedy Space Center facilities in Florida up for sale or lease.

Now that the space shuttle program is over, federal funding for maintenance will dry up by the end of the year, which means machinery will start to break down. It will become unusable and that is something that NASA does not want to happen.

So Chad Myers is here. I'm verklempt because the idea of having like launchpad 39-A in my backyard is like super cool.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: How would you like to have the backyard? Right? Wouldn't you like to -- that whole space cost.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Why are they doing it?

MYERS: Well, because they realized they don't have the money to tear it down. And they don't have the money to keep it up. So at some point in time, you're right there on the ocean. It is going to rust, it's all going to fall apart. They hope that they get enough money from leases to be able to keep it running.

BALDWIN: OK.

MYERS: Welcome back to the mother ship, by the way. I haven't seen you for like a month.

BALDWIN: Hello. Nice to see you. Happy new year. I missed you.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: You have been in New Orleans, you have been wherever you have been.

BALDWIN: I know.

MYERS: Yes. So they have this stuff that they don't know what to do with, like a runway, like a 15,000-foot runway.

BALDWIN: They want to keep it all where it is and just have somebody pay to lease it?

MYERS: Wouldn't that be a great racetrack, like the 15,000-foot runway?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Well, I would like it in my backyard, if I had a yard.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: Here are some things they know that the aluminum steel, it is all going to fall apart at some point. The processing facility, that really tall building that they put...

BALDWIN: The vehicle assembly building?

MYERS: ... yes, that they put the Saturn 5 together in, you can get that. Could we make a huge jumpy in there, right? A...

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: ... forever, all kinds of stuff here. The launch computer center there, those are all hurricane-proof windows. They just don't need this stuff anymore.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So what are they hoping, like private space enterprise to come in and...

MYERS: Sure. Sure.

BALDWIN: OK.

MYERS: Boeing has already picked up a couple of spaces kind of on the D.Q., on the D.L., on the down-low, because they're going to do things with these buildings. These buildings still have a lot of quality, they still have a lot of use, just not for the uses that they were first made for; 15,000-foot, the flattest runway on the planet.

BALDWIN: Hopefully, people will put the money toward buying or leasing, they can keep them there and that will keep people employed as well, but a sensitive issue I know on the space coast.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Chad Myers, thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: Good to see you.

Coming up next: how John Brennan at the CIA could mean big changes in President Obama's drone program. You will hear from someone who investigated the so-called kill list.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just in to us here at CNN: a new sentence for the man known as the dating game killer. He is Rodney Alcala. He's already on death row for strangling four women and a 12-year-old child in California. This is from the 1970s. Well, now he can add 25 to life to his sentence.

A one-time contestant on "The Dating Game," Alcala was sentenced today after admitting last month to murdering two young women in New York City more than 30 years ago.

Near the bottom of the hour here. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

John Brennan may have to fight for the CIA director's job. But it is a fight the White House is ready to take on, just as it plans to fight for Chuck Hagel's nomination to run the Defense Department. In nominating Brennan, the president says he hopes the Senate will act quickly, adding that Brennan is extremely qualified for the job. John Brennan says if he's confirmed, it will be -- quote -- "the honor of my life."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR NOMINEE: The women and men of the CIA are among the most dedicated, courageous, selfless and hardworking individuals who have ever served this country.

At great personal risk and sacrifice, they have made countless and valuable contributions to our national security and to the safety and security of all Americans. Most times, the successes will never be known outside the hallowed halls of Langley and the Oval Office.

Leading the agency in which I served for 25 years would be the greatest privilege, as well as the greatest responsibility of my professional life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Here's a little background for you.

Brennan is considered a CIA insider, having spent 25 years at the agency. And he's already the administration's point man on terrorism, even playing a key role in the planning of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

But there are problems, there are questions when it comes to Brennan's nomination. You see, he served in the Bush White House that expanded the use of tough interrogation techniques, including water-boarding, even though he said he did not support that.

And when it comes to the drone program, which the Obama administration is using with deadly effect, "Esquire" magazine writer Tom Junod says Brennan is making a moral argument in favor of using these drones, calling them just part of war.

Now, the drone war is expanding to Yemen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM JUNOD, WRITER, "ESQUIRE" MAGAZINE: The thing about John Brennan is that he has made -- argued, quite persuasively, for drones. I don't see him sort of putting on the brakes at all at the CIA.

BALDWIN: What about the opposite of putting on the brakes? Do you see speeding up?

JUNOD: Sort of wherever he has gone he has speeded up the program. He is the spokesperson for the drone program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Tom Junod.