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NANCY GRACE

Teen Father Gets 90 Days in Infant Daughter`s Killing; Mom and Kids Rack Up Suburban House

Aired October 18, 2012 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live to Colorado. Daddy parties all night with friends and then tucks his 6-month-old little girl, Sailor, into bed. But a few hours later, the baby is dead, hemorrhaging to the eyes, bleeding on the brain after she, quote, "falls off the bed."

Bombshell tonight. The case takes a horrific U-turn when Daddy finally confesses the baby was crying, so he slams her body repeatedly to, quote, "shut her up." The baby is dead, but now Daddy walks free after just 90 days behind bars? District court judge Douglas Walker, I`m calling you out!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops arrive on the scene after it`s reported a tiny baby is not breathing. Daddy tells investigators the little girl had rolled off the bed, declared dead. Authorities become suspicious after noticing peculiarities in Daddy`s story.

This tiny infant`s death was no accident. It was manslaughter, slamming her so hard into a bed, it caused brain trauma. Got just 90 days. Hand down what some are calling a mere slap on the wrist! What caused the legal system to hand down such a seemingly light sentence to a father who even admitted to killing his baby girl?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live, Coleyville, Texas. Forget a cup of coffee to wake you up first thing in the morning. How about raw chicken, apparently used Kotex and tampons, filthy graffiti all over your home and lawn. The alleged pervy perp, a 41-year-old mother caught on tape at Wal-Mart loading up for that night`s evildoing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) in this upscale Coleyville neighborhood. There`s the threat (ph). Neighbors say it started when two groups of middle school students toilet-papered each other`s houses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some kids sneak out in the middle of the night, and they go down and they do some terrible things at the neighbor`s house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this mom arrested for criminal mischief, 41-year- old Tara Mooney faces a state jail felony. According to the arrest affidavit, the kids who vandalized the home were under Tara Mooney`s supervision. It ended with hurtful graffiti and other damage to this stucco home. Police have video of her with eight kids at this Wal-Mart, where they bought more than 100 rolls of toilet paper just before the incident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. Live to Colorado. Daddy parties all night with friends, then tucks his 6-month-old baby girl into bed. Just a few hours later, she`s dead. The case takes a horrific U-turn when Daddy confesses baby Sailor was crying. So what does he do? He slams her tiny body repeatedly to, quote, "shut her up." The baby is dead, but Daddy walks free after just 90 days behind bars? District court judge Douglas Walker, sir, I am calling you out!

Straight out to Michael Board, WOIA. Michael, 90 days for killing your 6- month-old baby girl?

MICHAEL BOARD, WOIA: Unbelievable, Nancy. And it`s a case where there really is some underlying rage and alcohol abuse problems here with Dylan Kuhn. He`s 19 years old. He was allegedly out partying, getting drunk with friends, when this murder -- I`m going to call it a murder, I think it`s a murder -- happened.

And also, while out on bond, Nancy, before this sentence was handed down, he was busted for drunk driving. This is a young man who just doesn`t understand the consequences of what he does.

GRACE: All right. He is a killer. Let`s just take that for what it`s worth. But I want to talk about the judge in this case. District court judge Douglas Walker.

Out to Jennifer Morgan, TNN Denver joining us. Jennifer, what do we know about this judge?

JENNIFER MORGAN, TNN DENVER (via telephone): The judge had sympathy for Dylan and his family. That`s the main thing we can take away from this. He had sympathy...

GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you. I`ve got New York talking in my ear. The judge what?

MORGAN: The judge had sympathy for Dylan and his family. That`s the main thing we`re taking away. He had sympathy through the testimonies, and because of this, the judge did not want him to spend time in jail because he said that he would more than likely become a repeat offender.

GRACE: OK, wait, wa-wait. So the judge didn`t want him to send him to jail on murder because he didn`t want him to be a repeat offender? How could he kill another baby behind bars, Jennifer Morgan?

MORGAN: The judge claims that, more than likely, when you go to jail, you become a repeat offender. And because of his age and his record, he didn`t want him to go to jail and become another offender once he leaves in about four years.

GRACE: Once he leaves in four years? Whoa, wait, wa-wa-wa-wait. Once he leaves in four years?

Ellie Jostad, a 6-month-old baby girl is completely defenseless. Where was Mommy during all this, Ellie?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): At work. She got up early that day to go to a waitressing job. And it was actually witnesses at the home who say it was, once the mom left for work and put the baby in Dylan Kuhn`s care, that this incident happened. And Dylan Kuhn admitted that once he threw the baby on the bed, she quieted down, the crying stopped.

GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me out of Philadelphia tonight. If you threw a baby girl onto a bed -- I don`t believe throwing a baby on to a mattress would cause hemorrhaging to the eyes and bleeding on the brain. I don`t believe that.

DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): No. It usually is a result of shaking, somewhat violent shaking that we see these injuries. Now, it seemed to me the medical examiner -- at least in one of the news clips I read, the medical examiner felt that the injury could have been caused by that. But again, in my experience, that would seem to be very unusual. This is usually caused -- the injuries this child has is usually caused by violent shaking back and forth. So you`re right.

GRACE: You mean the contra (ph) coup (ph) shaking when you go back and forth and back and forth, the brain hits back and forth against the inside of the skull?

MANION: Well, if the head had been slammed against a hard object -- for instance, if the back of the head had hit the wall, then the brain could bounce forward and the front of the brain hit the front of the skull. That would be the contra coup, the opposite blow to the front of the brain.

Just shaking back and forth usually just tears the dural venous veins between the dura and the brain, and that`s what causes the subdural hemorrhage. In addition, it stretches the optic nerves and deforms the retina, so we get retinal hemorrhage and hemorrhaging around the optic nerve sheath.

So that can just be done with violent shaking without striking the child against the wall. But if the child was hit against the hard object, the brain will bounce back and forth and you`ll get a contra coup injury.

GRACE: You know, I`m just imaging a 6-month-old baby girl. She had been sick, so she was fussy and crying. And her biological father had been up all night smoking pot and drinking, watching the horror movie, "Insidious." And this little baby cries for love, cries for help, cries for attention. And what does she get?

I am disgusted at this man. I am disgusted at the judge, judge -- district court judge Douglas Walker. We count on judges to represent justice.

To Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "How to Save Your Daughter`s Life," I`d like to hear you weigh in. This guy high on pot, up with all of his friends in the next room watching a horror movie, and then he kills his daughter? That`s bad enough. But this judge?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, here we`ve got the problem. First of all, this -- this man was an adult. He was a man. He wasn`t a little boy, he was a man. He got a girl pregnant. He went and lived with that girl, and he was raising that child. He brought drugs into that home. He did those drugs while he was caring for his child, and he killed his child.

He had every opportunity to do the right thing, and he did all wrong things. The judge is crazy. I don`t understand this man who says, Oh, if we send the guy to jail, prison, he`s not going to be rehabilitated. Hello? That is not what prison is about! Prison is about getting these offenders off the street and giving them their just due. We can worry about rehabilitation on some other issue. But you know, you don`t say you don`t send people to prison because they`re not going to be rehabilitated. We might as well send nobody to prison!

GRACE: You know, I`m going to go to you, Dan Winslow. You`re a former judge, Dan joining me out of New York. Now, Dan, I know how you judges -- it`s kind of like a -- it`s a like a little club, and you all stick together and you all make excuses for each other. You know, fine. I get it.

But this is crazy, Dan. This is outright crazy.

DAN WINSLOW, FORMER JUDGE: Well, Nancy, I agree with you. You know, a judge is more than a replacement referee. A judge is supposed to bring the conscience of the community to the issue of sentencing.

In this case, the judge imposed an extremely lenient sentence. This defendant won`t even be in a jail cell on the anniversary of his daughter`s death to think about it on that day. It`s really incomprehensible.

But what`s really concerning to me is that the judge`s stated reason is he feels that this defendant is not a risk to repeat behavior. Why then, Your Honor, respectfully, did you impose a probation sentence that the defendant shall not be alone with any 10-year-old or younger child after he gets out?

GRACE: You know, on the other hand, Dan Winslow, he didn`t do it alone. The devil sat down to a tea party. There were other people drinking tea. You had the defense lawyer, but they get paid to get their client off, no matter what. The prosecutor -- if this were part of a negotiated deal, they`re on the hook, too, in my book.

WINSLOW: I completely agree. And this is the -- it`s an adversarial system. Justice depends on both sides being zealously advocated. In this case, it appears that the prosecutor made a rookie mistake. The defendant was charged first with abuse of a child resulting in death, which is a minimum mandatory period of incarceration, and manslaughter.

And in a plea agreement, they left the door open for an exceedingly lenient sentence to be imposed. So I think a lot of this is on the DA, as well, for dropping the ball.

GRACE: Well, you know, you can`t blame the defense attorney, actually, in this case, Dan, because you know, I compare them to snakes. Snakes. They crawl on their belly and they think they`re a king. A defense attorney can`t help being a defense attorney. They are what they are. And no matter how heinous the crime is, they think they`re doing the right thing by getting their client off and letting them walk free. So I just -- I just count -- I just write them off.

But I expect more from prosecutors and judges. Out to Jennifer Morgan joining me from TNN. Was this part of a negotiated deal? Did the prosecution agree to it, or was it a blind plea, up to the judge, where the prosecutor did not agree to it?

MORGAN: The plea -- the original -- he could have had 12 years in prison for this, for manslaughter. But he took a plea bargain which made it up to four years, leaving that window open where it could...

GRACE: Wa-wait, wa-wait, wa-wait. Back it up. Back it up. Jennifer, what did you say about 12 years?

MORGAN: The original sentence, he could have had two -- or 12 years, up to 12 years in prison. But as part of the plea bargain, it brought it down to zero to four years in prison, and it dropped his DUI charges that he had while he was out on probation.

GRACE: Well, I`m reading -- I`m getting in my hands right now more information.

You know what? Back to you, Winslow. The prosecutor may be off the hook because it says that this dad, this killer dad, faced up to four years in prison under the plea agreement, and the DA, Russell Wasley, begged the judge, district court judge Douglas Walker, to give the killer dad the maximum sentence allowed. But instead, he let killer dad walk.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emergency crews race to the scene after receiving a call about an infant not breathing, the baby rushed to a local hospital, where she`s pronounced dead. Before news of the tragedy even begins to settle, investigators are combing the child`s home after they notice suspicious signs, believing the death may not have been an accident after all.

Their suspicions prove correct after an autopsy reveals hemorrhaging and brain trauma. Cause of death, homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops arrive on the scene after it`s reported a tiny baby is not breathing. Daddy tells investigators the little girl had rolled off the bed, that a blanket had been wrapped around her neck and that she was dangling from the edge.

The baby is rushed to the hospital, only to be declared dead. Authorities become suspicious after noticing peculiarities in Daddy`s story. Autopsy results confirm what investigators had feared from the beginning, this tiny infant`s death was no accident. It was manslaughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. A so-called killer dad admits he slammed his 6-month-old baby girl to death. Then he tells authorities she fell off the bed. This after a night of hard partying, drinking alcohol, smoking pot, watching a horror movie titled "Insidious." When his sick infant calls for help, instead of helping, he kills her.

But that`s not the end of the story. A prosecutor in that jurisdiction drops a major charge of child abuse that carries a 24-year penalty with it. Although he begs a judge, district court judge Douglas Walker, to sentence killer dad to the max of four years on the only remaining charge, instead this judge lets the father walk.

We are taking your calls. Out to Jessica in Alabama. Hi, Jessica. What`s your question?

JESSICA, CALLER FROM ALABAMA: My question is, is he going to get away with having the 90 days served, or is he going to have to serve another 90 days?

GRACE: I think he`s going to get away. What about it, Ellie?

JOSTAD: Nancy, experts in that area -- in fact, an expert from the Rocky Mountain Children`s Law Center said she wouldn`t be surprised if he`s out within a week on electronic monitoring. So he may even serve less than the 90 days in jail.

GRACE: You`re kidding, Ellie!

JOSTAD: I`m not kidding, Nancy.

GRACE: Ellie -- Ellie, if he does get out in a week with an ankle monitor -- you mean like an ankle monitor like Paris Hilton sported and Lindsay Lohan, that thing? Give me a shot of that, Liz. He`s going to get out with an ankle monitor like Paris and Lindsay, and he killed his 6-month-old baby girl?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, like you said earlier, he was facing much more serious charges, that child abuse of a -- child abuse resulting in death, in addition to the manslaughter charge. He could have faced a lot more time. So even the 90-day sentence is a pretty good deal for him.

But according to some people who are at this case, he may not even do that much time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outrage after a Colorado judge hands down a sentence of 90 days in jail -- for manslaughter? This after it`s reported 6-month-old Sailor is killed by her own father. Autopsy reports reveal the tiny infant was slammed so hard into a bed, it caused hemorrhaging and brain trauma.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Manslaughter, slamming her so hard into a bed, it caused brain trauma. Got just 90 days. Hand down what some are calling a mere slap on the wrist. What caused the legal system to hand down such a seemingly light sentence?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Nobody, absolutely nobody is representing this baby. The baby`s own mother defended her killer in court.

We are taking your calls. Out to Marty in Kentucky. Hi, Marty. What`s your question?

MARTY, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: My question is, how low has morality got -- our morals and our values in this country got to sink before the judges and the judicial system will wake up and start giving these killers sentences that are appropriate for the crime?

GRACE: And you know what, Marty in Kentucky? What this judge did, district court judge Douglas Walker -- he says that sending killer dad to jail would not rehabilitate him.

Well, I`m quoting from killer dad in court. He says, "I love my daughter very much. I was told I was too young to raise her, and that turned out to be true."

Now what`s he going to do? He`ll probably get out, get somebody else pregnant and have another baby.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops arrive on the scene after it`s reported a tiny baby is not breathing. Daddy tells investigators the little girl had rolled off the bed, declared dead. Authorities become suspicious after noticing peculiarities in Daddy`s story.

This tiny infant`s death was no accident. It was manslaughter, slamming her so hard into a bed, it caused brain trauma.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I`m going to go back to Marty in Kentucky. Marty, I think I need you because I`m about to unleash the lawyers.

Joining me, Dan Winslow, former judge, New York. Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, Atlanta. And Richard Herman, renowned defense attorney, tonight joining me out of Las Vegas.

All right, so, Marty, what do you think about that? He breaks down in court. Then he starts crying, boo-who, I didn`t mean to. But I want to remind you, Marty in Kentucky, that at first he claimed that the baby fell off the bed. And he only told the truth that he essentially beat the baby to death after the medical examiner ruled that this was no accident, Marty in Kentucky.

MARTY: Well, our society has become so selfish and so self-centered that all they think about is I, me, I. And they don`t think about, you know -- they don`t think about the obligations and responsibilities that they take on when they take on a child.

GRACE: You know, Marty in Kentucky, I`m going to -- I`m going to hold on to your words as I unleash the lawyers.

All right, Herman, weigh in.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, you don`t think I`m a snake, do you, Nancy? Please, come on. You love me. Come on. Say that. Say it, Nancy, come on.

GRACE: Go ahead. Weigh in.

HERMAN: All right. Listen, this Judge Walker should be praised. He should be praised for his actions here. He takes the cue from the prosecution. A plea deal was entered into with this prosecutor. He knowingly deleted the child abuse cause of action. He deleted that. All that was before this judge was a manslaughter leading to the death and accidental homicide. Accidental maximum four years.

He took into consideration the age, 19 years old. A young man. Got to live with the rest of his life knowing that as a result of his actions, his baby is dead. This judge did the right thing.

GRACE: He doesn`t care.

HERMAN: He took the cue from the prosecutor.

GRACE: He doesn`t care.

Seth Meyers, clinical psychologist, why would Richard Herman believe he actually cared about his 6-month-old child? Because while the child is sick, what is he doing? Is he asleep with the child, in the bed with him or next to him taking care of her? Giving her her medicine? No. He is up partying all night, drinking booze and smoking pot with his buddies, watching a horror movie in the next room.

Why do I think he cares anything about this child? And the mother parades into court and defends the killer.

SETH MEYERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I couldn`t agree with you more. You know, the truth is, I`ve worked on many cases with child protective services, and so often, this is not -- when the violence gets to the point of death. This was not a single incident. That there were episodes before of aggressive gestures toward the child. So that`s what I`d like to know. My guess is that this was not the first time he did something aggressive towards that baby.

GRACE: You know, Darryl Cohen, you`re a former prosecutor before you became a defense lawyer. And I`ve been thinking back over all the child molestation and all the child murders. All the child abuse cases I ever prosecuted. And I cannot recall one case where the child`s mother took the side of the state. They always took the side of the husband, boyfriend, live-in, ex, whatever it was. Always. Is that your experience?

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s my experience but that`s also the battered woman`s syndrome. She thinks there`s something wrong with her and she`s transferring that to him. But in this instance, in my view, this young man is going to be punished for the rest of his life and you and I both know --

GRACE: In your experience.

COHEN: -- that punishment comes in many, many forms. And he has probation.

GRACE: Your -- what punishment would that be?

COHEN: And it`s a long history. Punishment he has to think about that child that died as a result of the fact --

GRACE: So you think he is thinking about it.

COHEN: I absolutely think it.

GRACE: You think he feels that --

COHEN: If he is not now -- if he is not thinking about it now, Nancy --

GRACE: Really?

COHEN: He will think about it as he grows older and grows more mature.

GRACE: So was he thinking about it when he lied to police and he tried --

COHEN: He`s just scared.

GRACE: -- to get out of the murder?

COHEN: Nancy, he was --

GRACE: No, he was trying to save his own skin.

COHEN: Every defendant -- Nancy, with all due respect, he was afraid. Every defendant is afraid when they`re arrested and they don`t know what to do. So he did the wrong thing.

GRACE: Every defendant is afraid they`re going to get in trouble. They`re not sorry they did it. They`re sorry they got caught. You know, whether you guys are going to admit it or not, and I don`t expect you to. When I was prosecuting, I noticed that there seemed to be a pattern of pleading cases down from murder to manslaughter when a child was the victim.

And I don`t know why. I don`t know if it is the majority of the prosecutors are men and they don`t have to deal with children as much as moms do. And don`t start the whole dad thing with me, OK? Maybe they`re not as equipped dealing with crying children. Maybe they get frustrated. Maybe they take out their frustrations in a different way than women do.

I don`t know. And frankly, I don`t care. But what I did notice is that when the victim is a child or an infant that can`t speak for itself, more often than not I would see murder cases pled down to voluntary manslaughter. I don`t know why. But I observed it myself. I saw other people doing it, Dan Winslow.

WINSLOW: Yes, well, nobody can speak for a child in the criminal justice system. And for that reason, oftentimes the interests of the child don`t come to the fore. And that`s a darn shame. And that`s why the judge needed to step up in this case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The last sighting we have of Sabrina alive and well was over 48 hours before she`s actually reported missing. Deputies shoulder to shoulder searching the bottom of ponds with their hands for a tiny 5-month- old baby`s lifeless body. Now, her parents, Steve and Marlena Aisenberg, say they believe she is alive somewhere and being raised by a family who wanted a baby.

The case of Sabrina Aisenberg has never been solved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And this mom arrested for criminal mischief. Two groups of middle school students, toilet papered each other`s houses but it ended with hurtful graffiti and other damage to this stucco home. Police have video of her with eight kids at this Wal-Mart where they bought more than 100 rolls of toilet paper just before the incident. According to the arrest affidavit, the kids who vandalized the home were under Tara Mooney`s supervision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A lot of people wake up in the morning with a jolt of morning coffee. But how about raw chicken? Apparently used tampons and sanitary napkins. Filthy language written all over your home and your yard and your driveway, and this mom, a 41-year-old mother, apparently caught on tape stocking up on ammo for her night`s evildoings?

We are taking your calls. Out to Michael Board, WOAI, joining me.

Michael, this woman, ketchup smeared tampons and pads strewn, struck to windows? You open up your kitchen window in the morning and there right stuck is apparently a bloody maxi pad?

Hello. Good morning.

BOARD: Yes. A toilet that was stuck in the driveway. This woman is 41 years old. How old do you have to be to know better to do this? Now, she is not -- you know, there`s no hard evidence that puts her at the scene of doing this. But there is evidence that she supported this. She condoned it. She even took the kids out. She must have said it`s OK, you can do this, because she was taking them out to buy some of the supplies for this.

Nancy, these are really, really expensive homes. The homes in this neighborhood go for $600,000, $700,000. These are mansions in this Dallas suburb. They estimate the cost of the damage of this at about $6,000.

GRACE: Well, how did a ketchupy maxi pad equal $6,000 damage?

BOARD: Well, there was writing on the driveway. They used condiment --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Why am I seeing a peanut butter sandwich? Oh, yes. There was a slew of condiments. There were ketchup, mustard, peanut butter. But what`s the $6,000 worth of damage? What did you say, Board?

BOARD: Six thousand dollars. They wrote words like sluts, and whorehouse on the stucco walls of this house. That`s all going to be -- have to paint it. In the Texas heat, the writing off with these condiments on the driveway, you can`t just wash that out. That`s stuck on there so they`re going to have to redo the driveway --

GRACE: Ouch.

BOARD: That was housed --

GRACE: I`m taking a look at that house. OK. So nice house. I`m sure over a million bucks house.

But, Ellie Jostad, you got to write with more than ketchup to get $6,000 worth of damage. I`ll get into the bill later. I want to hear about this mother. A 41-year-old mother, Tara Mauney. Mom of a middle school girl in the home that was vandalized. Doesn`t the little girl live there and somebody writes whorehouse on the front of the -- of the -- what?

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. This was actually a slumber party thrown by a 12- year-old girl. It was a bunch of her little middle school friends that apparently, you know, caught this group of vandals in the act. And actually, Nancy, one of the little girls says that as they`re chasing this group of people who threw toilet paper and maxi pads all over the yard, she recognized an adult with the kids and it was Mrs. Mauney, a child`s mother who she recognized from school events.

GRACE: OK. And isn`t it true, Ellie, that the little girl, the 12-year- old girl who lives in this house was having a sleepover that night?

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: And the mother, the 12-year-old mother`s was with them. And they`ve got a pool in the backyard.

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: And there -- I know it`s late. It`s 2:00. And all the little girls are up. All right? They`re all outside and they`re in the pool. And they see a boy`s head poke up over the fence. Around the pool. And they all get scared and they run in. And they look out and according to them they see this 41-year-old mother with a possie of middle schoolers running away and they chased them, Ellie.

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: They chase Mrs. Mauney, according to them.

JOSTAD: Right. Well, these kids say that they followed this group and Mrs. Mauney to the Mauney`s house which is only about 120 yards away. One of the girls actually says that Mrs. Mauney said to the group of pursuing kids, can I help you? And one of the girls said, yes, you can go clean up that mess you made.

Well, according to that girl`s mother, their house was also pranked that night. They got a house full, a yard full of toilet paper.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Jeannine in Connecticut. Hi, Jeannine. What do you think?

JEANNINE, CALLER FROM CONNECTICUT: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say that your twins are just gorgeous and I watch your show all time.

GRACE: Thank you.

JEANNINE: But any way, my question is, or actually my comment is, I don`t understand what kind of mother does this. I have teenagers myself and I just don`t understand it -- what is going through her mind.

GRACE: You know, I`m just wondering, aside from the example that she is setting or allegedly is setting, what`s going to happen regarding a case against her. She is free on bail right now. She has been charged with felony criminal mischief, two years in a $10,000 fine.

Isn`t it true, Pat Brown, she`s now claiming that wasn`t her? So isn`t she caught on tape at a local Wal-Mart buying all of the stuff like -- how many -- how many rolls of toilet paper did she buy at Wal-Mart?

BROWN: She clearly is going to be nailed for this one. And she`s a bully. That`s what she is.

GRACE: A hundred and eight. Pat, 108 rolls of TP.

BROWN: Right. Right. She helped these boys commit a crime. She encouraged them to commit a crime. She is a bully herself. It is a crime. She was a bully. I don`t know why she did it. Maybe (INAUDIBLE). She hates the neighbors. I don`t know but she`s a bully.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are scared girls that told the story. Said that they wouldn`t be involved and they want to blame it on the adult. Have some kids sneak out in the middle of the night and they go down and they do some terrible things at the neighbor`s house. But Tara had absolutely nothing to do with any criminal behavior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are back and taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Dan Winslow, Darryl Cohen, Richard Herman.

What about it, Richard?

HERMAN: Felony. Criminal mischief. Felony for this, Nancy? Come on. They toilet papered some houses. It`s going on in the community. It`s not a big deal. They`ll plead it off.

GRACE: Aren`t you leaving out --

HERMAN: They`ll take care of it.

GRACE: -- slut and whorehouse written in black on the wall?

HERMAN: Well, the mother that was -- these are kids. The mother didn`t know that. And as for the chicken, you know, a little Paula Dean recipe or some Shake N` Bake, it`s all good, Nancy. Come on. It`s just not that bad. Please.

GRACE: You know, Richard, I understand what you`re saying. I know that in the big scheme of things compared so many the cases we talk about that this is light.

HERMAN: Right.

GRACE: This is, you know, felony light. But the reality is the homeowner is stuck with slut and whorehouse written on the front of their home, Darryl Cohen. Forget the lost chicken and maxi pads.

COHEN: Well, Nancy, so what do you do? You take these kids, not the mother.

HERMAN: Right.

COHEN: And you take the kids, and you make them do community service. You make them realize that what they did is wrong. But as far as this woman buy toilet paper at Wal-Mart and helping the kids, it`s a prank that went wild and had a life of its own. That`s all that happened. This is not a big deal. It happens all the time. How many of us had toilet paper on our trees?

GRACE: I never did.

COHEN: Maybe the white cloud, who knows? Well, I did. And I didn`t like it, but we waited for the first rain and then it went away.

GRACE: Did it cost $6,000 to clean up your house? What about it, Dan Winslow?

WINSLOW: What I think what we have to do is jump over the issue of guilt or innocence because there`s open questions here. Get to the issue of what do we do about it? And what we do about it --

GRACE: What about the photos of her at Wal-Mart, Dan Winslow.

WINSLOW: Well, that`s fine.

GRACE: With all the kids. They actually took a picture of themselves.

WINSLOW: Right. Buying 108 rolls of toilet paper. So it may have been a prank gone wrong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: American hero. Dustin Wilson, 24, Palm City, Florida. Purple Heart. Meritorious Mast. An artist. Loved baseball, "Star Wars." Parents Fran and Lance. Brother Chris. Sister Jamie Ella. Widow Hanna.

Justin Wilson, American hero.

And a shout-out tonight to friends, Kimberly and Sharon. Thanks for being big show fans.

Back in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tara had absolutely nothing to do with any criminal behavior. Absolutely nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: According to the arrest affidavit, the kids who vandalized the home were under Tara Mauney`s supervision. Toilet-papered each other`s houses. But it ended with hurtful graffiti.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines, Wendy in Pennsylvania. Hi, Wendy, what`s your question?

WENDY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hey, Nancy, how are you doing today?

GRACE: Good.

WENDY: Good. Hey, I just want to say that this is setting a bad example for our children. And that to me is another case of bullying. These things are just going way too far. The little things that used to be just little pranks are now turning into outrageous things. And this woman has set a poor example for the children and the community.

GRACE: To Seth Meyers, clinical psychologist. What about it?

MEYERS: This situation is so upsetting to hear about, because yes, it is bullying. And we have a lot of data now about bullying and the effect that it has. This poor girl who lived in this vandalized house, she`s got to go to school the next day and she`s not going to be the girl who has slut and whorehouse written on her house.

So this is something she will carry with her for years. This is something that could lead to depression, substance abuse, possibly self-injurious behavior.

GRACE: What would you do? It`s the question we will be asking beginning Sunday night 9:00 Eastern. When ABC`s hidden camera hit hosted by John Quinones. "What Would You Do?" comes to HLN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN QUINONES, HOST, "WHAT WOULD YOU DO?": We wondered. How will people react when they see a toy traditionally meant for girls end up in a boy`s hands?

To find out we bring our hidden cameras to Meyer`s. A family owned toy store in Livingston, New Jersey.

The moment our father and son actors walk through the door, the boy heads straight for the dolls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you want to get a Barbie doll? You got to be kidding me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I love Barbies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You love Barbies? Since when do you like Barbie dolls?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love Barbies. They`re my only (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh no. You got to be kidding me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want this then.

QUINONES: And then there`s this woman. It only takes a second for her to notice what`s going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put it back up there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But, Daddy, I want it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Absolutely not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you believe it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No fair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you do something for me? Would you allow your son to play with a Barbie doll? You would?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was a kindergarten teacher.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And some of the kids, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of the kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They go through a stage where they like to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where they like to play with --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, my concern is, is like, he`ll play with it -- yes, he`ll play with the dolls now and then next thing you know, you know, start to wear like pink dresses and stuff like it. Probably not?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably not? This is very natural for a 5-year-old to want to engage and play with the dolls and they want to be the chefs in the kitchen.

QUINONES: You saw this as a kindergarten teacher.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I -- Yes, I saw that.

QUINONES: And parents, what should they do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just encourage them to explore. Explore whatever they want to do. This is the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: "DR. DREW" is up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END