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NANCY GRACE
Pediatrician and Wife Accused of Waterboarding 11-Year-Old Daughter
Aired August 9, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Georgetown, Delaware. Water torture, where the victim is forced upside down while high-velocity water forced up their nose and mouth until they go numb, pass out, a horrific torture.
Bombshell tonight. No, it`s not Nazi Germany, Vietnam, the Hanoi Hilton. It`s upscale Delaware! The allegedly sadistic mastermind, none other than a TV pediatrician, embraced by Oprah Winfrey, Larry King, Barbara Walters, "20/20," Stossel, Dr. Melvin Morse. The victim, his 11- year-old little girl, his own little girl! Not only do we learn the water torture gets even worse, but now we know her own mother stands by and watches!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Morse is accused of waterboarding his 11- year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Melvin L. Morse M.D.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The daughter telling police her father held her face under a faucet at least four times in the last two years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Water shoots up her nose and all over her face, a doctor, a pediatrician.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A noted researcher in near-death experience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very difficult to explain from a medical standpoint.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly tells police her father said, quote, she could go five minutes without brain damage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try to drown a kid? That`s too far.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While her mother stood by and watched.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there he is (INAUDIBLE) Dr. Morse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly waterboarding their 11-year-old daughter.
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: He went through the tunnel, and yes, he saw the light, he said, but he didn`t think it was God. He thought it was lack of oxygen to his brain, so I mean...
DR. MELVIN MORSE, AUTHOR, "CLOSER TO LIGHT": I`ve scientifically studied that issue. These experiences are not caused by a lack of oxygen. They are not caused by drugs or sensory deprivation or psychological stress at the point of dying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, that`s quite a fall from mingling with the likes of Oprah Winfrey, Larry King, John Stossel, Barbara Walters on "20/20" to a mugshot?
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, Georgetown, Delaware, water torture, where a victim is forced upside down, essentially, while high-velocity water is forced up the victim`s nose and mouth until they go numb, they pass out. It`s a horrific torture. And no, it`s not going on today in Nazi Germany, not the Hanoi Hilton, not Vietnam. It`s Delaware. The mastermind, a TV pediatrician.
We are taking your calls. I want to go straight out to Kelli Steele, news director at WGMD joining me from Delaware. Kelli, this doctor has mingled with Barbara Walters, Stossel, Larry King, Oprah, for Pete`s sake. And this apparently isn`t the first time, Kelli.
But let me just start, Kelli Steele, with the water torture, the alleged water torture of his 11-year-old little girl. What happened?
KELLI STEELE, WGMD NEWS RADIO FM 92.7 (via telephone): Well, here`s the thing, Nancy. I think you spelled it out best. Thank you for having me. This is the same water torture that CIA operatives and others use in the global war on terrorism. So it`s a heinous crime. It`s an unfortunate situation. It`s a heinous crime.
This doctor, this pediatrician, he was working at this Milton practice one day a week for the past two-and-a-half years or so. And this all started last month, in the month of July, as a domestic dispute after a neighbor reported him dragging this 11-year-old daughter, his stepdaughter, across the driveway in the gravel. So that`s how all of this started, as a domestic dispute.
GRACE: A domestic dispute. Kelli Steele, news director, WGMD, are you telling me it was a domestic dispute that started between him and his wife or started...
(CROSSTALK)
STEELE: The way we were described by state police, the neighbor saw him dragging his daughter across the gravel. And the police would not talk to us about it initially. This all started on July 12th, I think.
Dr. Morse grabbed his daughter by the ankle. The neighbor saw him drag her across the gravel driveway. The kid is kicking and screaming. He then allegedly takes the child inside the house. He starts to spank her. The very next day, he`s arrested and he`s charged with two counts of endangering the welfare of a child, one count of third degree assault in connection with the incident. And he posts $750 bail and...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa! Right there!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Right there, Kelli Steele, $750 bond?
STEELE: That`s it.
GRACE: On that, you have to pay about $75. With me is Kelli Steele out of Delaware.
Also joining me, Brett Larson, investigative reporter. So Brett, this whole water torture thing came about or at least came to light after he is seen by a neighbor dragging his 11-year-old girl -- and according our sources, it`s his natural daughter -- along gravel. He`s grabbing her by the ankle, which means she`s either face down in the gravel or on her back in the gravel, and drags her up a driveway, I understand -- into the home, drags her across gravel, then goes in and spanks her.
Now, that`s got an eyewitness. What do we know about the water torture? And people, this is a guy who has been touted as an expert on Larry King, on Oprah Winfrey, for Pete`s sake. Who doesn`t love Oprah Winfrey? Stossel used him. "20/20," Barbara Walters`s show used him, extolling him as an expert. He`s got some kind of an institute, for Pete`s sake.
Tell me how it went from dragging the girl -- and nothing happened. He didn`t go to jail. He made bond on about $75 -- to water torture.
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: To water torturing his 11-year- old daughter. And Nancy, I mean, you brought up a lot of really good points here. This guy wrote a book, "Closer to Light" and "Transformed by the Light." Basically, a pediatrician who wrote a book about children`s near-death experiences takes his 11-year-old daughter and waterboards her. And she says -- she tells police that he told her he could do it for up to five minutes without causing brain damage.
And she said she was afraid because he would often look away. She was afraid that he might look away and forget how much time has passed and that might kill her. And what`s worse about this -- the mother standing right there the whole time, witnessing the entire thing happen.
And sometimes she would get out of the house, run out of the house and start crying. He would go outside and find her, put his hand over her nose and mouth so that she couldn`t breathe, and he would hold it there until she relaxed, until she basically went unconscious. And then he would drag her back into the house, like he did when he dragged her by the ankle over the gravel driveway.
This man is a monster!
GRACE: You know, what I don`t understand is how he got out on essentially $75 bond.
I want to go very quickly to Dr. Kent Harshbarger, medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining me out of Dayton. Doctor, explain how this -- this torture works. And let me see the mock-up, the video of it, Dana, please, so our viewers can understand what we`re talking about.
This father, a well-known pediatric expert, waterboarding, essentially nearly drowning his own little girl. What is it, Doctor?
DR. KENT E. HARSHBARGER, MEDICAL EXAMINER (via telephone): You`re exactly right. The waterboarding is essentially someone held sort of upside down, confined so they can`t get away, and then water is forced on their face, up their nose or in their mouth to simulate or to make them believe they`re going to die.
It`s done -- the torture part is done in a more controlled setting. The problem here is the emotions and it`s uncontrolled. So it is true when she says, I was afraid my father was going to look away. There is a period of time where it`s probably not going to be lethal, but two to four to six minutes of it, you can kill this child.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Colleen in Idaho. Hi, Colleen. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, why aren`t parents allowed to be waterboarded for their crimes against their children in this nature? I am appalled by this!
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Paul Henderson, Peter Odom, Renee Rockwell. All right, Peter Odom, I want to hear your defense on this.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, first of all, I like to see exactly what the evidence is. I hear you using the word waterboarding. I hear everyone using the torture. I mean, apparently, he used water on this girl`s face, which is probably some sort of discipline.
The reason that the police gave him a $75,000 bond is -- a $75 bond is that they apparently don`t think it`s as serious...
GRACE: Actually, you don`t have...
ODOM: ... as you and the other people that are talking.
GRACE: ... your facts straight, Peter. Let`s go through the facts.
ODOM: $750 bond.
GRACE: Do we have Clark yet, please? OK, let me know when you get a satellite up.
Peter, this is how is rolled out. As I just explained, he dragged his daughter -- his 11-year-old girl...
ODOM: I heard that.
GRACE: ... you`ve got a daughter -- across the gravel and asphalt, and he was arrested on that. That is when he made a $750 bond, which is essentially paying $75 to get out of jail, basically free. You know those little Monopoly cards, "Get out of jail free"?
Then after that is when the water torture began. What about it, Paul Henderson, veteran prosecutor out of San Francisco?
PAUL HENDERSON, PROSECUTOR: Look, his notoriety is not going to save him here. And I think one of the things that is really interesting, in addition to the criminal charges that he`s certainly facing now, there is also the dependency investigation about his parental rights that`s going to be initiated because of this case.
And also, let`s not forget his license, which is going to be at risk. He`s a pediatrician, for God`s sake, that is charged with and has taken a vow to first do no harm and to help children, and now he`s charged with not just harming a random child, but harming his own child.
I think he`s going to be in a lot of trouble for his behavior when this heads to court.
GRACE: Well, you know, Paul Henderson, I appreciate you sugar-coating it and putting perfume on the pig. But the caller, Colleen in Idaho, asked you -- and Odom, who waffled out -- asked you why can`t he be waterboarded?
All right, Renee, give it to me in a nutshell, if that`s possible.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Why they can`t -- why can`t he be waterboarded? Because it would be cruel and unusual punishment. But Nancy, the reality of all of this -- the only evidence that we have that`s material is the neighbor seeing the child being dragged across the driveway. We can see that. Do we have anything other than...
GRACE: Can you stop?
ROCKWELL: ... the child...
GRACE: Can you just stop?
ROCKWELL: Wait a minute.
GRACE: I guess you haven`t been listening because the girl will testify to it, in addition to the neighbor. But we`ve got two or three or maybe more separate incidents, as I keep trying to explain to -- you know what? Let me have somebody else explain it. Maybe you just can`t hear my accent.
Let`s go to Clark Goldband. Take it from the dragging on the asphalt, Clark.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. The call came after Morse`s daughter went to a neighbor`s home after Morse reportedly grabbed by the ankle and dragged her -- dragged her -- across a gravel driveway. Morse then allegedly took the daughter inside the home and spanked her, according to reports. Morse was arrested at that time with two counts of endangering the welfare of a child and one count of third degree assault.
GRACE: And where -- how does it graduate to the discovery of the waterboarding?
GOLDBAND: Well, at that moment in time is when law enforcement started questioning this girl, this 11-year-old. And as they questioned her, she, according to authorities, began to reveal that between May of 2009 to present, he would hold her face under running water, causing the water to fill her nostrils, over her face. And that`s when authorities began to proceed with their investigation.
GRACE: Clark, what can you tell me -- I want to go into more depth about what we know about the little 11-year-old girl`s statement regarding when she would try to run away, regarding what he would say to her on those occasions, whether the mother was standing by and watching? What about the other little girl? What about the 11-year-old girl`s fears her father would look away from the clock and forget five minutes had passed?
I want to hear the whole thing, Clark. Can you do that for me?
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy. Here`s what we know. It happened at least four times, according to authorities. That involved using the kitchen sink, the bathroom sink and the bathtub faucet.
According to the daughter, Morse told the victim she could, quote, "go five minutes without brain damage." Now, this girl also said she would become afraid when sometimes he would turn away, and she was afraid he would lose track of time.
The doctor also supposedly told the daughter that he was, quote, "going to wrap her in a blanket and just do it so she could not move." And the daughter also told cops she could never understand what she even did to be punished. She felt scared.
She told law enforcement she would go outside and cry, Nancy, prompting Morse to come outside and hold her nose and mouth with his hand, according to the child. Morse would also then allegedly tell the victim she was lucky he did not use duct tape.
GRACE: You know, another thing about what the little girl told police, other than her father told her he was going to wrap her whole body in a blanket so she couldn`t move while he was attempting to drown her, that he should use duct tape -- but do you recall, Clark -- I`m going to Q&A with myself here for a moment -- that she says her own father told her if she tried to run that it would even be worse? Do you recall those facts, Clark?
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy. And it`s worse than that. Cops say Morse would not let go of the girl until she lost feeling and collapsed down to the ground.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Delaware pediatrician and his wife arrested for allegedly waterboarding their 11-year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Over at least the past two years in this Georgetown neighborhood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very difficult to explain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Melvin Morse, who`s a noted researcher in near-death experience, and his wife, Pauline, face reckless endangerment charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The couple`s daughter telling police her father held her face under a faucet at least four times in the last two years to punish her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s too far. That is too far. And in my opinion, the guy should be locked up without bail.
MORSE: This is something that I knew that was real that happened to her.
WINFREY: And so skeptic that you were, why didn`t you believe -- I mean, I`ve done these shows before. I had a man on here who -- oh, it was so interesting, an atheist he said he was, and that he`d had a near-death experience, and he -- yes, he went through the tunnel and yes he saw the light, he said, but he didn`t think it was God. He thought it was lack of oxygen to his brain. So I mean...
MORSE: I`ve scientifically studied that issue. These experiences are not caused by a lack of oxygen. They are not caused by drugs or sensory deprivation or psychological stress at the point of dying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was the doctor, the good doctor, the pediatrician now charged with felony acts on his 11-year-old little girl, on Oprah. But there`s many, many more. I`m sure Oprah had no idea about this type of behavior. He was on Barbara Walters, "20/20." He was interviewed by Stone Phillips, in a Diane Sawyer piece, with John Stossel, the consumer advocate, the crusader. But what a face this guy allegedly put on. There is he on Larry King, for Pete`s sake!
I want to go out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers" joining me out of LA. You know, Dr. Bethany, the horror of what he did to this little girl, telling her, Don`t try to run, when he she would try to run from him, or he would do it even more, saying he`d wrap her in a blanket, hold her upside down under the running water -- that is torture techniques that you associate with terrorists, the -- you know, the Hanoi Hilton, Vietnam, Nazi Germany.
But now we learn he was studying near-death experiences (INAUDIBLE) published "New York Times" best-sellers published on it?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: And you know, he told one interviewer that his fascination with near-death experiences came in the `80s, when he treated a little girl who had almost died in a swimming pool because her hair got caught in the drain.
So he is so fascinated with children, unconsciousness, children being rendered into an unconscious, helpless, frightened state. I think this guy has a weird, perverse, fetishized interest in children and death.
And it`s important to note that sadism is one of the five sexual perversions. So you put all of these facts together, and what was this guy`s fantasy life like? I would be looking at his computer to see if there`s child pornography and if it has a bondage and torture aspect to it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Melvin Morse is internationally renowned for his research on the near-death experience, especially his work with children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pediatrician and his wife arrested for allegedly waterboarding their 11-year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Morse is accused of waterboarding his 11- year-old daughter over at least the past two years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The couple`s daughter telling police her father held her face under a faucet for at least -- at least four times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Waterboarding -- I`m not talking about when you hitch a waterboard or a boogie board up to the back of a boat and pull for fun, like skiing. I`m talking about a sadistic form of torture that we associate only with the deepest, darkest bowels of a torture chamber.
This doctor, who has been interviewed by Oprah, for Pete`s sake, Larry King, on Barbara Walters "20/20," you name it, as an expert -- he has a "New York Times" best-seller -- he`s accused of waterboarding, water torturing his 11-year-old little girl not once, twice, but many times. Here`s the kicker. According to the little girl, Mommy stood by and watched.
Stacey Newman, I hold her, if this is true, equally responsible! What do we know about her, Stace?
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we know that she`s about 40 years old, and apparently, she witnessed at least two or three of these incidents where the 11-year-old girl was, as we`re calling it, waterboarded, placed under a faucet and the water running up her nose.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Morse is accused of waterboarding his 11- year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Melvin L. Morse, M.D.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The daughter telling police her father held her face under a faucet at least four times in the last two years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Water shoots up her nose and all over her face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A doctor, a pediatrician.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A noted researcher in near-death experience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very difficult to explain from a medical standpoint.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The girl allegedly tells police her father said, quote, she could go five minutes without brain damage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try to drown a kid, that`s too far. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: While her mother stood by and watched.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there he is. The great Dr. Morse.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Allegedly waterboarding their 11-year-old daughter.
MORSE: Very difficult to explain from a medical standpoint. Remember, when patients lapse into coma, that should white clean the slate of consciousness. Comatose patient should not be dreaming, should not be having hallucinations, in Crystal (INAUDIBLE)`s case, her pupils were fixed and dilated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, all attention in a small upscale town of Delaware. We`re not talking about a torture chamber in the deepest, darkest bowels of some hardened criminal, correctional institute. We are talking about an upscale Delaware community. And a doctor that has been embraced, actually lauded, treated as an expert by some of the brightest stars in the sky.
I`m talking about Oprah, Barbara Walters, "20/20," John Stossel, Diane -- Diane Sawyer interviews. This guy, here, this doctor accused of torturing his 11-year-old girl in one of the worst ways. A neighbor sees him allegedly dragging the girl by the ankle across asphalt, gravel. But then upon questioning, after he bonds out of jail on that at $750, allegations arise of water torture.
Back to you, Clark Goldband, take it from the top.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: All right, Nancy. Well, here`s what really happened. A call comes in on 9/11 after Morse`s daughter runs to a neighbor after he reportedly grabs her by the ankle and drags her across a driveway. That`s when he allegedly takes the daughter inside the home and spanks her prior to that. He was arrested at that time, Nancy, and that`s when he posted the $750 bond.
It was during that questioning that law enforcement talked to this 11- year-old that she started to talk about being held under running water causing that water to fill her nostrils and her face. Authorities investigated and the girl said that it happened at least four times and, Nancy, on at least a few of those occasions, the mom, she allegedly watched and did not stop it.
GRACE: Threatening to bind her whole body in blankets so she couldn`t move and then hold her upside down under high velocity water out of a faucet as mommy stood by, threatening to put duct tape over her when she tried to run. He would go out and get her, and grab her nose and put his hand over her mouth, and hold her like that, according to the little girl.
And the defense lawyers tonight say, what`s the evidence? As if the 11-year-old girl`s testimony is not evidence? It is.
Out to the lines, June in Virginia, hi, June, what`s your question?
JUNE, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Yes, I was wondering what waterboarding was. I`ve never heard of that. I know that waterboarding is like when they get on the thing and they pull across the --
GRACE: Exactly.
JUNE: So what is this? Waterboarding, I mean, I don`t understand.
GRACE: Yes. OK, June. A lot of people actually have been tweeting in and calling in thinking it`s when, for instance, you put your child or anybody on like a boogie board or a ski or a waterboard and you pull them with a boat. That`s not what it is.
Out to C.W. Jensen, retired police captain, joining me out of Cave Creek.
C.W., break it down for me. Waterboarding.
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, in simpler terms, simple terms, I mean, in some cases what they do is they do put someone on a wooden board or a plastic board where their arms and legs are held down and then they put down and they put water and it goes up your nose into your mouth, and it`s a horrible, horrible experience. They`ve used it on detainees and after the Iraq war and things like that.
But you don`t have to do that. Like you said, he was talking about wrapping this girl`s arms and legs in a blanket and the horrible part of it isn`t being strapped down. It`s having the water gushing into your nose and you think you`re going to drown. And the thought of a father doing this to a daughter or anyone is horrific.
GRACE: You know, he`s right, Dr. Bethany Marshal. In fact, according to the 11-year-old girl, the father would tell her that he could force the water down her nostrils and into her mouth and she`s upside down for five minutes before she would die. And she could see kind of her father look away and she said she was so afraid during all this that he would keep flushing the water past five minutes and she would die.
That`s the memory this 11-year-old girl is going to have of her father, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": And Nancy, not only that, it sounds like he was stalking her to get every opportunity available to try to asphyxiate her, to wipe her conscience or her conscious into a blank state, like he described on the "Larry King" show. I think the fact that he strapped her down, wanted to wrap her in a blanket and waterboard her was not only to asphyxiate and frighten her but he wanted to see the fear in her eyes.
Nancy, when we look at adults, a man who commits sexual homicide and sadistic rape, you know, they always try to asphyxiate and they do it why they`re facing the woman so that they can see the fear in the victim`s eyes. So what I think about this father is that he was getting increasingly emboldened to commit crimes on the daughter that were increasingly dangerous. So what did he used to do when she was an infant or a little girl? Maybe he would just shake her, put his hand over her mouth for a few minutes.
But every time he did it and the mother stood by and did nothing, he gained the courage to act out his sadistic perverse asphyxiation fantasy to a greater and greater degree.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: Thank God she ran to the neighbor`s house.
GRACE: Let me ask you a question. What -- how does it work in the human mind when, you know, you would think the mother would go, get your hands off her. You know, to get to her, you`re going to go through me. That would -- I would assume would be the natural response. But when the mother stands by silently, you know, washing her hands like Pontius Pilate, of the whole thing, how does that -- doesn`t that egg him on? I`m sure that`s not the correct phraseology but how does that work exactly?
MARSHALL: Yes, she (INAUDIBLE). Well, what it is that you have two adults working themselves into a paranoid frenzy. This is what you see in child abuse. They conspire and collude to the -- on the idea that the little girl is bad. Now he probably told the wife, oh, your little girl is bad, I need to punish her as a justification for sadistic acts. The wife is not bonded to the little girl and takes secret satisfaction in the acts.
GRACE: Everybody, quick break. We are taking your calls. We`re going to go right out to Kathy in Texas. But first, our family album, back with your photos.
Here are Vegas friends, the Crows. They love swimming, painting and baby Oliver loves pickles.
Share your photos through iReport Family Album at hlnTV.com/Nancygrace and click on "Nancy Grace`s Family Album."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dr. Morse is accused of waterboarding his 11- year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say the girl claims her father held her face under a running faucet.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Melvin Morse is a noted researcher in near death experiences.
MORSE: When patients lapse into a coma, that should wipe clean the slate of consciousness.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her father held her face under a faucet at least four times in the last two years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Brett Larson, investigative reporter joining us.
Brett, we know that the noose is already in notion to get his medical license suspended. What more can you tell us? I know he was released on $750 bond for dragging his daughter across gravel and asphalt. But after these allegations he was re-arrested. When are they going to court and what does the mother have to say for herself, Brett?
BRETT LARSON, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: She is not talking. We tried to call her. People have gone to her door to see what she has to say about all this. She is in jail on $14,500 bond that he can`t seem to post. She, the wife, was able to post that. You know, another interesting fact about this is the other daughter, his 6-year-old daughter, who also says she witnessed these things happening but she was telling police that she was too young for her father to do it to her.
As for a court date, we don`t know the exact timing on that yet but we do know that this monster doctor is behind bars now unable to post bail.
GRACE: Well, the only thing about him being behind bars is that he can`t be held upside down, strapped to a board with water forced down his nose. That was Colleen in Idaho`s suggestion.
I want to go back to Kelli Steele, news director, WGMD. What about this mother and this institute the two of them have?
KELLI STEELE, NEWS DIRECTOR, WGMD NEWS RADIO, FM 92.7: The institute meaning the home life that they had, Nancy?
GRACE: No, that they have a, quote, "Institute for Scientific Study of the Consciousness." They have this institute where she is one of the officers or he is the director, I think she is the CFO. And when asked for a quote, she said something like, I want to be left alone to get myself together. Not one word about her children. And where are the girls tonight, Kelli Steele?
STEELE: Well, the girls have been taken out of the home. They`re with the Division of Family Services. Of course, DFS, they`re basically saying, look, child abuse is defined as unjustified force, including any action that interferes with breathing or any other act like this alleged waterboarding that this father inflicted upon this child. So the 11-year- old and the 6-year-old have been taken out of the house.
GRACE: Stacey -- hey, run that in full for me, Dana. That apparently is him at his wedding of the mother. She`s about 18 years younger than him. And now he`s going to pick up -- oh, he`s so multitalented. He`s going to pick up a guitar and serenade what I believe to be his bride. I thought for a moment it was one of his daughters. He`s got the 11-year-old little girl and the other little girl is I believe 4.
Oh, yes, here we go. Too bad we don`t have the audio. All right. That is from spiritualscientific.com.
Stacey Newman, what more do we know about this family? This has been going on for some time and no one knew a thing.
STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we know that the father of this mother said he`s been estranged from her for a couple of years and has not had contact with these two younger daughters in this case. Also, on top of this, the state attorney general`s office has filed an emergency motion, Nancy, to have his medical license suspended as soon as possible.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Paul Henderson out of San Francisco, Peter Odom, Renee Rockwell, also joining us.
OK, Peter Odom, back to you. What`s your defense?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, there`s no reason to have a defense yet. All you`ve got is a one-sided presentation. We haven`t heard what the doctor has to say about it, we haven`t heard what the mother has to say about it. And, you know, under our system, Nancy, it doesn`t just all come from one side. That`s not fair. When you were a prosecutor, would you have taken the word of just one person before prosecuting someone? Of course not.
I want to hear the whole story, I want to hear what the doctor`s side of it is. I want to hear whether the mother corroborates or contradicts what is said. That`s the only fair way to do it. I`m not going to join with everybody else on your show condemning this person --
GRACE: OK. I didn`t ask you to log --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Don`t make me cut your mike, all right? I appreciate how good and noble and true you are as a defense lawyer.
ODOM: Thank you.
GRACE: To felon -- felony, felon. But that`s not what I asked you. I asked you what would be the best defense and if you think back over many of the cases I did prosecute, I`ll go to you, Renee, on this, since we had cases against each other much longer than Peter and I ever did.
Yes, I have taken a child victim`s word for it and prosecuted a case in the days way back when, not so long ago when we didn`t have DNA in cases and you had to either believe your victim and go to trial, drop the case, or plead it out to something cheap so that defendant could go do it again.
So, yes, I have taken the victim`s word for t, as you put it, Peter Odom.
All right, Renee, let me try you. Let`s hear a practical discussion of what a defense could be. Do I need to help you and say, he thought he was just disciplining his child?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, there`s a difference between punishment and discipline. But here`s the interesting part that I was trying to make at the last juncture. What the neighbor sees is something physical. The child being dragged across the driveway, you see that. The people are going to eventually get out on bond and after a few classes they will all be back together, Nancy. I think it`s important to determine if the victim --
(CROSSTALK)
ROCKWELL: If I could finish.
GRACE: I can feel my stomach hurt. If you can hurry, you can finish.
ROCKWELL: Nancy, if I could finish. I think it`s going to be important to determine if this is his natural daughter or stepdaughter. I think it`s his stepdaughter.
GRACE: As if that makes a difference?
ROCKWELL: No, let me tell you why.
GRACE: Paul -- no, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I have another guest to go to. And as much as you`d like to grandstand, I am going to hear from Paul Henderson.
Paul, do you think he cared if she was a natural daughter or a stepdaughter while that water was being forced up her nostrils and down her throat?
PAUL HENDERSON, VETERAN PROSECUTOR, SAN FRANCISCO: That was absolutely irrelevant to her because she was suffering. All she wanted was an escape and this behavior is horrific, and sick, and twisted. And by the way, each of those allegations that she made against her father is going to be an independent basis if he`s convicted for a higher sentence. And even if they don`t have information other than her testimony, which can be used and is evidence in a prosecution, we have evidence and information about the dragging across the driveway. That enough is unjustifiable force and he can be convicted for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dr. Morse is accused of waterboarding his 11- year-old daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A well-respected pediatrician, a doctor who has been lauded as an expert, a pediatric expert, on the likes of Oprah, Barbara Walters, "20/20," and Diane Sawyer pieces, John Stossel, Larry King, for Pete`s sake, now behind bars, charged with torturing, water torture, an obscure form of torture, on his 11-year-old little girl while her mother and her little sister, just 4, stand by and watch.
Clark, what more can you tell me?
GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, what`s interesting is law enforcement also questioned the girl`s younger sister. According to authorities, she told social workers she saw this happen and she said it had never been done to her. Now this girl just 6 years old and the reasoning why she gave authority it had never been done to her is because she was too young for it.
GRACE: What can you tell me? We`re having a conflict of fact. Is this his natural daughter or his stepdaughter, Clark?
GOLDBAND: As we understand the case, Nancy, these are his natural daughters, his biological children.
GRACE: OK. So I don`t -- and I also don`t understand Renee Rockwell`s point -- Renee, you were trying to say something about we`ve got to decide if this was his natural or his stepdaughter. Can you explain to me under the law why that`s different? What`s the difference as to who the victim is?
(CROSSTALK)
ROCKWELL: It has nothing -- nothing to do with the law. But what`s going to happen here is the money`s going to stop. If this is his natural daughter, at some point, they will all be back together in the same house and then the stories change, Nancy. If this is his stepdaughter, she will be with another family member and maybe the story is preserved.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Delaware pediatrician and his wife allegedly waterboarding their 11-year-old daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dragging a kid and try to drown a kid? That`s too far.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Michelle in Maryland. Hi, Michelle. What`s your question? Oh, excuse me, Kathy in Texas. Hi, Kathy.
KATHY, CALLER FROM MICHELLE: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good dear. What`s your question?
KATHY: I was just calling to actually make a statement.
GRACE: OK.
KATHY: First off, if the mother just stood there and watched, I would imagine when this is all said and done there`s been some form of abuse to her, too, or she`s got some major problems and how could he even think waterboarding was -- was a -- you know, it was considered a crime when we used it in the military against terrorists. How could he do that to his 11-year-old? What could she have ever done to deserve that?
GRACE: This is what I know, it`s going to be very, very difficult for the mother to claim some time of coercion because in a case like this under the law, you can only claim you were coerced to be part of a criminal act if you thought you were going to be killed, really is what the law requires. Think Patty Hearst, where they used that video of her when she looked back over her shoulder robbing a bank, claiming she thought she was going to be shot, that that`s why she did it.
That is an example of coercion that could work under the law. But what we are hearing tonight is that charges still remain pending in court. Additional charges are now going to be filed. The next step will be a preliminary hearing to determine if the case will be bound over to a felony courtroom. No date for that hearing yet. After that, an indictment where a grand jury is set to be considered.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Patrick Schimmel, 21, Winfield, Missouri, killed, Afghanistan. Purple Heart, War on Terrorism Service Medal. Operation Iraqi Freedom medal. Loved collecting swords, anime cartoons and books. Leaves behind parents Mary Jane and Wayne, a Vietnam vet, brother Matthew.
Patrick Schimmel, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. Dr. Drew up next.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then, good night, friend.
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