Return to Transcripts main page


Nairobi Blasts; Interview with Jose Manuel Barroso; Interview with Willem Buiter; Future Cities; U.K. Euro Exit Debate; Biography of Steve Jobs; Interview with Herbert Hainer; Interview with Didler Debrosse

Aired October 24, 2011 - 14:00:00   ET


MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Time for a rethink. European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso tells us exclusively why fixing Europe may mean rewriting its rules.


JOSE MANUEL BARROSO, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: The monetary union be the true economic unit. And for that, we may need a treaty change.


FOSTER: Backbiting in Brussels -- we look at the spats on the sidelines at the EU summit.

The man behind the Mac -- a new biography of Steve Jobs.

I'm Max Foster in for Richard Quest.


First, though, some breaking news for you. We want to bring in the latest story here that we're following. It's out of Kenya. There have been two large blasts at a bus station and the capital, Nairobi

CNN's David McKenzie as been digging into this story for us from the Ivory Coast though -- David, what can you tell us



FOSTER: Hi, David.

Give us the details.


FOSTER: Hi, David, can you hear me?

We've lost David there.

We've got some details coming in to us. We're going to try and get him back for you.

But in the meantime, Europe's leaders are looking beyond the current crisis to the dawn of a true economic union, that is to say, fiscal as well as monetary.

This week, we're watching Europe's leader -- leaders hammer out a plan to save the Eurozone.

Tonight, Jose Manuel Barroso, president of The European Commission, says he wants more integration, more discipline and more convergence. And he's not ruling out rewriting the fundamental rules -- Europe's treaties -- to get it.

Barroso gave an exclusive interview to -- to Nina dos Santos.

And Nina joins me now from Brussels.

So, he said quite a few interesting things, in the end.

But it's an interesting week, isn't it?


And what we've got at that moment is Brussels feels a little bit like the lull before the storm after those 27 heads of European governments left empty-handed on Sunday, the details of any plan that they're getting close to drawing up to finally draw a line in the sand beyond which we can eventually bury these kind of Eurozone crisis problems seem to be getting closer.

But the details of anything, at best, remain sketchy.

Max, what they're talking about here is unprecedented. It's also extremely comp -- extremely complicated. And adding to their troubles, it seems as though they've opened another can of worms by discussing rewriting the treaties that govern the entire European Union.

As you said, I tracked down Jose Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission.

And I started out by asking him whether we're talking about Maastricht revisited here.


JOSE MANUEL BARROSO, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: We already adopted now, following the proposals of the Commission, a much more structured Mastri -- I mean stability in respect that was agreed in Maastricht that keeps much more powers of supervision, of enforcement, of monitoring to the European institutions.

So, yes, that is definitely the way. The way is toward more discipline, but at the same time, more economic convergence.

DOS SANTOS: Let me just stop you there, because you said we hope. A lot of other people have been saying you will certainly have something in place.

Will you?

BARROSO: I -- I'm confident we are going to have disagreements, yes. There was progress in the summit. I am very happy that now the most important points are in place. But, yes, we still need to meet on Wednesday to agree on the final package. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. And we have to decide on Greece. We have to decide on the firewalls so the European Financial Stability Facility how to leverage its capacity. We have to decide on recapitalization of banks and also the main lines for increased governance in the euro area, integration in the euro area.

And some of these measures can be taken even without a treaty change.

DOS SANTOS: Now, if we talk about the framework of boosting the EFSF, reports seem to indicate at the moment that we're veering more toward a potentially insured vehicle that could attract investment from outside the Eurozone, outside the EU altogether.

Will that just not leave the region at the mercy of other economies elsewhere?

BARROSO: No. No. First of all, let me put it clear. What is now on the table for the EFSF is, in fact, as we, the Commission, have been asking for, reinforcement of the capacity of the -- the EFSF. It means the farewell we have in terms of financial stability. In fact, I've been asking for it since January of this year. It is now a document.

And we have different options now on the table. And I hope they will be agreed.

Now, the other thing is the financing that can come, also, outside of the Euro area. And from that, yes, it's true that we are discussing the possibility of the IMF increasing its resources.

But let me remind that Euro area member states together are, by far, the biggest contributor to the IMF and the European Union even more.

So it's only natural that the institution to which we all belong reinforces its capacity. And it's true that we have agreed on making a -- a -- a point of suggesting to the IMF the reinforcement of its capacities.

DOS SANTOS: How confident are you that Italy is a stable partner in the EU?

BARROSO: Look, Italy, I'm sure it will respond to the -- these doubts that exist today, because Italy is a very strong economy. It's true that it's a dual economy. Some parts of the country are not doing as well as the others. In Italy, we find some of the most exhortative (ph) parts of the -- of the economy in Europe, and in the world, in fact. It's one of the biggest economies in the world, Italy.

And I believe that the government is committed to improve its performance and to implement everything that was already announced, and, if needed, also to speedup some of the structural reforms that are needed for that country.


DOS SANTOS: And the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, this evening is meeting with his cabinet to push through emergency reforms to bring down the debt; also to, perhaps, increase the national age for pensions from 65 to 67, desperately trying to get something done before Wednesday -- Max.


FOSTER: Nina, thank you very much, indeed.

I know that you're there all week, so we'll come back to that.

We'll come back to it in this program, as well, Europe.

But we want to bring you the latest on that story we're following for you out of Kenya. There have been two large blasts at a bus station in the capital of Nairobi.

CNN's David McKenzie has the story for us.

He's reporting from Ivory Coast for us -- David, what do you have?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we have, Max, is according to the police spokesman and also several local reporters I've spoken two, two large blasts from downtown Nairobi now, from an area in downtown where there are a lot of regional buses that leave. We don't know at this stage, Max, what kind of explosions they are, what's the cause of it. But we -- it's certainly, given the fact that police are making statements about this, we believe it's some kind of terror attack coming just hours after an attack on a nightclub in Nairobi where 14 people were injured.

And this all should be put into the context of the fact that Kenya has made incursions into Southern Somalia to take on Al Shabab, the Al Qaeda- linked militant group in recent weeks. And certainly a heightened level of tension and also the fact that the U.S. Embassy and State Department had warned of imminent attacks in downtown Nairobi, often seen as a -- a bastion of stability in this region that is flanked by Somalia.

FOSTER: And Al Shabab wanting Kenyan troops out of Somalia, right?

MCKENZIE: Well, they've been warning, according to several reports, that they will attack various installations in Kenya. Now, this is not the first time, it's nicely put, that Al Shabab has warned the Kenyan government and the Kenyan people that they will attack soft targets in Nairobi. And certainly, you know, Kenya is not immune in the past to these sort of attacks, most famously and tragically, the late '90s bombings of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi and in neighboring Tanzania.

So certainly very worrying signs of, you know, an uptick in, you know, terror-related attacks in Nairobi. We'll have to see what the response is of the Kenyan government.

But already, there's been talk of clamping down on the Somalia population living in Nairobi. There's a vibrant Somali population in the east of the city. And with Kenyan troops in Southern Somalia, pushing them north toward major strongholds of Al Shabab, this is certainly a -- a difficult time for the -- the Kenya nation and its people.

FOSTER: OK, David.

Thank you very much, indeed.

With you again a bit later on that as we get more information.

We'll be back in just a moment, as well, on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

We're going to be focusing on those Eurozone meetings again for you.


FOSTER: Well, there is a grand plan in the works for Europe, but it's more complicated than complete, it seems. The French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, admits the plan is full of technical complexities and requires large amounts of money.

Still, Europe's leaders say they made progress at a weekend summit in Brussels and they're coming back on Wednesday to finish the job.

Now, this is what stands between Europe and a solution to the debt crisis.

First of all, the EFSF. It is, perhaps, the biggest hurdle. Tapping the ECB has been ruled out. The idea now is to attract international investors, particularly by setting up a special investment vehicle or using the EFSF to issue insurance on sovereign debt or the combination of both, actually. No need for member states to put any more money in.

The next hurdle, Greek debt. Now, that's a very tricky issue. In July, there was a statement. It called for a 21 percent haircut. Banks offer 40 percent. Merkel says we need at least 50 percent, maybe even 60 percent. So that's a very tricky issue going ahead.

And then we have the banks. That's the final hurdle. A plan is agreed in principle, a recapitalization of up to $150 billion may be needed for that. And the plan would see 90 lenders asked to lift key capital to 9 percent of assets.

Those that do it by themselves could get government help, but it depends on Greek write-downs. The total losses from that still not really known. So working in the unknown here.

Now, the European stocks today gained a little lift from those developments over in Brussels at the weekend. There's some tentative optimism out there, it seems. Mining stocks pushed London's FTSE 100 higher. New numbers from China show the manufacturing sector is growing again, following three months of decline.

Only the Athens Composite spoils the picture, really, here. There were huge losses for Greek banks and traders are worried that they will have to take a bigger write-down on sovereign debt than they've bargained for.

And you can see the damage to those banking shares in Greece. Banks in Paris and Frankfurt performed a bit better.

Citigroup's latest report on trade suggests that Europe will be overtaken by Asia at this rate.

The chief economist at Citigroup, Willem Buiter, joins me now.

We'll talk about that report in just a moment.

But first, I just want to ask you a couple of questions about Europe. You've got a great insight from the Bank of England, of course, on monetary policy.

And what are you looking at when you're looking at these meetings today?

What are you hoping they're going to -- we're going to get -- or this week, right here?

WILLEM BUITER, CHIEF ECONOMIST, CITIGROUP: Well, what I'm hoping for is that they will find a solution to the three items which they're talking about -- recapitalize the banks adequately, restructure the obviously insolvent sovereigns, Greece and Portugal, and possibly Ireland. And then the big friends (ph), Spain, Italy, and beyond them, Belgium, Austria, France. There is a much larger pot of money, in the short-run, possibly, by leveraging, as it's called, the EFSF. But, you know, you can't make a - - a mountain out of a molehill without additional resources. Ultimately, the discarded solution on your screen, the ECB, will have to come to the rescue, because they are the only serious pot of money in the Euro area.

FOSTER: And then we get into this whole debate about what Europe is about and should there be a common fiscal policy. And as soon as the ECB gets involved, that's what happens, isn't it?

BUITER: Well, it's a common fiscal policy in the sense of either a super-national fiscal authority or the joined decision-making of a national budget, is not going to come in time for this crisis, if it ever comes.

What we've really got to have is the European banking union, this limited fiscal union, long before we have fiscal union.

FOSTER: Are we moving toward it, though, with a...

BUITER: Oh, yes, I think we are. We're going to have -- already have a single European banking regulator and they will effectively take over for all cross border banks, including the British banks, incidentally. We're going to have a single European Bank resolution authority. We're going to have, I think, in Ducor (ph), not that far in the future, a single European recapitalization authority for banks, because if only a single sovereign stands behind national banks, you're never going to win out competitively against banks that are backed by virtual sovereigns. And we're going to need a European deposit insurance scheme.

So the fiscal stuff is actually very limited that we need. What we really need is to take care of the banking sector.

FOSTER: OK. And meanwhile, there's another fundamental shift going on in the global economy that your report is suggesting. We're just talking about -- let's get it right -- Asia will overtake Europe in terms of trade by 2015. Now, people perhaps expected this to happen at some point, but 2015?

BUITER: Well, China has overtaken the U.S. as the world's biggest importer by 2015. They've already overtaken the U.S. as an exporter in 2010. But Europe is a continent that's not growing. In fact, at that moment, it's more like shrinking. And Africa, and Asia, especially, will be growing at rates of 5 to 6 percent of debt to GDP and a rate of 6 percent plus in our forecast for the next 20 years or so.

So while Europe will not shrink in absolute size, it is, in relative...

FOSTER: But you think it's going to be overtaken.

BUITER: It will be overtaken and become a bit player in (INAUDIBLE)...

FOSTER: A bit player?


FOSTER: Sooner than we thought?


FOSTER: Mr. Buiter, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.

BUITER: You're very welcome.

FOSTER: After the break, Richard is getting a taste of the great outdoors.


RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Coming up, it's all change in Moscow's Gorky Park, as it makes a clean break with its Soviet past, in just a moment.


FOSTER: Now it's every bit a part of Moscow as Red Square or the Kremlin. Gorky Park is one of Europe's biggest public spaces. And back in the days of the Soviet Union, town planners wanted it to be an international landmark.

Just as the Soviet Union declined -- declined, so did Gorky Park. Now, it's getting a major makeover, though.

Richard went along to take a look.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We leave the path for a secluded place. Waal alone. I am handing out the food from the bag.


QUEST (voice-over): A triple murder in an inner city park. The 1983 film, "Gorky Park," brought the paranoia and intrigue of the cold war into sharp focus. It cemented the real Gorky Park as an international symbol of Soviet Moscow.

(on-camera): Nothing screams the Soviet era more than the imposing entrance to Gorky Park. But once inside these gates you realize even here, the winds of change are blowing hard.

(voice-over): Gorky Park as opened in 1928, becoming the Soviet Union's first real amusement park, a cultural playground for the proletariat. But like the regime itself, that ideology failed. The park fell into decades of neglect and disrepair, only recently to be recovered.

Today, Gorky Park is toasting the return of a piece of its history -- The Girl with the Oar, a copy of the original 1930 statue. It was once deemed too racy for Soviet tastes. Now, she's part of a $2 billion makeover going on in the park.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are used to living between home and work, and it's important to find a third place, a creative place where people can live and breathe and have tactile experience of life.

QUEST: And just like the statue, Gorky Park is casting off those habits.

(on camera): Just a few moments ago, this whole embankment was cluttered with rides just like this. Now, the roller coaster is silent and is the final ride waiting to be dismantled.

(voice-over): The Moscow authorities have called in help. The billionaire owner of Chelsea, Roman Abramovich, is investing in the project. And much of the real design work is happening here, at the Strelka Institute, the new architectural school hoping to revolutionize Moscow's public spaces.

KUBA SNOPKE, ARCHITECT, STRELKA INSTITUTE: A few years ago, it was a totally neglected, abandoned space which was full of these cheap theme parks which were absolutely unattractive. The first things which were done in the park by -- by the city was removing all those things which were unnecessary.

QUEST: The park's entry fee has been scrapped. Free wi-fi has been installed. And there are plenty of places to bask in the dying rays of the Russian summer. Just like the original park, there's an ideology behind all of this.

ILYA OSKOLKOV-TSENTSIPER, PRESIDENT, STRELKA INSTITUTE: What was most important for us is to turn it into a platform which was accepting the differences of the different types of -- of Muscovites. This great idea of public space is something which belongs to all of us that are, you know, using -- using a city, was fairly -- fairly innovative.

QUEST: Coming to Gorky Park has been a rite of passage for Muscovites for decades.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course I used to come with my parents. Everything here was different then but you conditions still eat candy (UNREADABLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People of my generation want to thank the new mayor from the bottom of our heart.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The park has changed a lot since they took away the rides. It is more cultural, a good place to relax.

QUEST: The affection is not universal. Luba has been selling ice creams in the park for several years.

LUBRA: There are much fewer visitors, children leave disappointed, people leave unhappy. It has become dull in the park.

QUEST: The weather is already changing and the plans are in place for a huge ice rink. Like so much of communist Russia, Gorky Park will be turned from drab concrete to something that's flowering fast.

OSKOLKOV-TSENTSIPER: But it's only recently that the real public discussion on, you know, the sort of space we envisioned for ourselves for the future we want to live in had started. And I think that Gorky Park has modern -- most importantly, probably, it's the first attempt on the -- on the behalf of the city administration to start engaging with the -- with the society and to start engaging with professionals and trying to change the situation and so on.

QUEST: Moscow is vast, overcrowded and choking on its own fumes. To live a better life in this city, now you come to Gorky Park.


FOSTER: Now you know where he's been.

Now they've got three days to save the Eurozone, so why are Europe's leaders acting more like squabbling high schoolers?

We'll tell you who supposedly said what, after the break.


FOSTER: Welcome back.

I'm Max Foster.

More QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment.

But first, here are your news headlines.

There's been an explosion at a bus station in the Kenyan capital of Nairobi. At least one person is said to be dead and several more are wounded. It comes after a grenade explosion at a Nairobi bar that injured several people. Two days ago, the U.S. Embassy in Kenya warned that an attacked could be imminent following threats from Al Shabab militants in Somalia.

Robert Nagila from affiliate NTV is on the scene for us.

And we've got him on the phone for us from Nairobi.

Just paint a picture, if you can, from -- from where you are.

ROBERT NAGILA, JOURNALIST: Well, at the moment, what I can tell you is that the crime scene has now been cordoned off. A perimeter fence has now been set up. The explosion occurred about an hour-and-a-half ago. This is a time when a lot of people would have been going home from work and more or less rush hour.

But the place where the explosion itself occurred was on a road called Race Course, next to a bus stop where people were lining up waiting for public service transport to take them to their designated areas.

And it is believed, according to police sources, that somebody lobbed a grenade over the crowd of people and one person, unfortunately, was killed in that attack. Thirteen others were injured.

And, at that moment, that's what we know. There were reports of a second explosion in a Nairobi suburb about 15 kilometers away, but that is yet unconfirmed.

There was a lot of confusion, initially. A lot of people did not know what was happening.

But to just give you an idea of the level of panic and confusion on the ground, we have police officers telling journalists to know exactly who they were standing next to. And this should paint a picture of people -- the authorities are not really sure at the moment, who is responsible for this attack.

This comes about 14, 15 hours after another attack, about two blocks from this particular scene, in which several people were injured and taken to hospital -- Max.

FOSTER: And, obviously, a lot of people pointing the finger at Al Shabab.

But who else could it be, if it's not Al Shabab?

NAGILA: Oh, that -- that's the interesting bit about this, Max, because if it is Al Shabab, that would mean a change of tactics, according to a lot of experts on the ground here, because a lot of people were expecting then to target high profile installations.

Now, what we've seen over the last week, especially after the celebrations last week in which the president asked Kenyans to be very vigilant and to know what was going on around them and in case of any suspicion, to report that to the police and authorities.

We've seen a lot of secure -- a heavy security presence around several installations around the city. And outside the city, in major towns and centers around the country.

Now this would -- this would then mean that Al Shabab has been unable to penetrate into the major areas because of the heavy security presence and it's now targeting so-called soft targets, looking for where basically crowds of people are and dealing with that particular thing.

Now, if it's not Al Shabab, the authorities are refusing to confirm -- well, they're basically saying they are not sure at the moment who is responsible, but according to (INAUDIBLE) if it's not al-Shabab, that would then point a finger to criminal gangs around the city. Highly unlikely, because there's a coordination of these particular types and the targets that we are looking at.

Initially, with the first explosion yesterday, it was thought, OK, hang on a second. It was a nondescript target itself, so it could have been either a criminal gang or something like that.

But with the second attack, the (INAUDIBLE) are clearly going to be closing across the border of al-Shabab and which means that we are going to see some more measures being taken by authorities in the coming days as -- in the coming days -- Max.

FOSTER: OK, Robert Nagila from Nairobi.

Thank you very much, indeed.

FOSTER: Well, just two days before Wednesday's final Eurozone summit, it's time for Europe's leaders to forget their personnel differences and concentrate on the issues involved. Although perhaps someone should try telling them that.

The amount of gossip and squabbling from this weekend suggests the pressure really is starting to show.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy have become quite the double act. When they were asked a question about Silvio Berlusconi at a joint news conference, they -- they looked at each other and they laughed. And as we know -- but as we know, it hasn't always been so cozy. In fact, Mr. Sarkozy reportedly upset Mrs. Merkel by making a comment on how much cheese she ate at dinner. She had apparently told him she was on a diet.

Anyway, things have been even more frosty between Mr. Sarkozy and Britain's prime minister here, David Cameron. They're smiling in that photo, but it wasn't always that nice over the weekend.

Now, Britain does not use the euro, but Mr. Cameron has spent his time at this summit trying to keep Britain's interests at the table.

That seems to have rubbed Mr. Sarkozy the wrong way. Diplomats say he told Mr. Cameron this: "We're sick of you criticizing us and telling us what to do. You say you hate the euro, now you want to interfere." Strong words.

The French president has accused David Cameron of hating the euro. That might be a more accurate description of some of Mr. Cameron's colleagues here in the U.K., though, at the parliament.

Here to explain is Phil Black in Westminster, where a debate is still going on. And these splits along party lines are nothing new in the U.K., but they're -- they're rearing up again, aren't they?


While David Cameron is clashing or have been clashing with the French president, fighting to keep a place at the table in Brussels, he has also been trying to hose down this domestic political distraction, which could prove to be an international embarrassment.

Tonight, he is expected to receive the greatest -- will be delivered the greatest revolt in parliament by members of his own party, of his premiership so far with members of his own party voting in favor of a motion to hold a referendum questioning Britain's continued membership of the European Union.

Now, David Cameron has tried to stop this using the party's strictest rules, ordering MPs to vote against the motion. He has been pressuring them behind the scenes. And today in parliament, he explained why he believes this is a bad idea being considered at a terrible time.

Take a look.


DAVID CAMERON, BRITAIN PRIME MINISTER: It is not the right time, at this moment of economic crisis, to launch legislation that includes an in/out referendum. When your neighbor's house is on fire, your first impulse should be to help them to put out the flames, not least to stop the flames reaching your own house.

This is not the time...


CAMERON: -- this is not the time to argue about walking away, not just for their sakes, but for ours.


MCKENZIE: Rowdy scenes there today, Max.

And now while it is the British government's policy to remain part of the European Union, David Cameron is no Europhile. It is his stated intention to claw back powers, responsibilities previously ceded from London to Brussels. And he said today he believes the best way to do that through the coming years is negotiation, as the European Union reshapes itself in order to come to terms with the Eurozone crisis -- Max.

FOSTER: So what's your sense from those MPs down there about which way the vote is going to go tonight?

MCKENZIE: Well, it's not going to happen. This motion isn't going to get the numbers. It just doesn't have them, even if large numbers revolt, because the other M -- conservative MPs loyal to David Cameron, doing his bidding on this occasion, are going to be voting the same side, as the other major political parties.

And it must be said that this is not a binding motion anyway. Even if it did pass, the government wouldn't have to hold this referendum.

So why does it matter?

Well, it is a direct challenge to David Cameron's authority by members of his own party, who are showing that there are prepared to defy him, and in so doing, are showing the rest of Britain and the rest of Europe that this party, that has been so divided on this issue, remains so after so many decades -- Max.


We'll wait to see what happens.

Thank you very much, indeed.

Now, when we come back, what we never knew about Steve Jobs -- new revelations as the first authorized biography of the late Apple innovator is published.


FOSTER: It only went on sale today, but it's already topping the best-seller lists at Amazon. The book in question is a highly anticipated biography of Apple co-founder, Steve Jobs, written by former CNN chairman and "Time" magazine managing editor, Walter Isaacson.

The author spoke to CBS' "60 Minutes" about why Jobs refused cancer treatment for so long.


WALTER ISAACSON, STEVE JOBS' BIOGRAPHER: I think that he kind of felt that if you ignore something, if you don't want something to exist, you can have magical thinking. And it had worked for him in the past.

He regretted, you know, some of the decisions he made. And certainly I think he felt he should have been operated on sooner.


FOSTER: Well, the publisher moved up the books' release date after Jobs' death because of the overwhelming interest in the -- in the computer genius has made some people cynical, I guess.

Maggie Lake joining me now from a New York bookstore on the Upper East Side of Manhattan -- I mean, have you had a chance to go through it all yet, Maggie?

It seems fascinating.

MAGGIE LAKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yea, certainly. We have been flipping through it, Max. And lots of sort of interesting tidbits, a lot of personal accounts, which, interesting, is -- is the thing that people we talked to seemed to be gravitating toward.

You know, we're at this bookstore here. Unlike other Apple events we've covered, we don't have a huge queue down the block with people lining up. They are drifting in to buy it. But as is, perhaps, appropriate, a lot of the action is happening online, already number one on Amazon. In fact, they say it could be their best-seller this year, even though it's coming out at the end of October.

But the people we spoke -- spoke to who were in the actual physical store buying this physical book today said it was really about Steve Jobs as a person and what motivated him that they most wanted to find out about.

Have a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's more of his personal life I'm interested in. A lot of his business life was publicized and a lot of his private life (AUDIO GAP) so just a glimpse into his family, his personal life and his personal thinking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a pretty conflicted personality himself. I mean from what I've read, he was very difficult to work for. And he demanded, you know, what did they say, A minus performance wasn't good enough. It had to be A plus.

And yet look what he got from his pushing his employees that way.

LAKE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And look at what he did at Pixar. I mean it's - - it's the contradictions within him.


LAKE: Now, interestingly, of course, as far as the media is concerned, some of the other headlines jumping out of it are -- are, in addition to talking about his disease and his regret about delaying treatment, the things he has to say about his competitors, absolutely furious with Google for launching Android and -- and, he thinks, ripping off iPhone, some of the iPhone thing, and, as well, talking about Obama, interestingly, wading into politics, saying he thinks he might be a one term president because of his anti-business, his -- job -- from Jobs' point of view, his anti-business policies.

But, Max, it really struck me, talking to these people. They didn't care so much about that. They really wanted to get to the bottom of this guy. I think in a difficult environment economically that we're in, a lot of people feel like they might be at a dead end, that they're facing their own failures and the fact that he's someone who was able to overcome that, they really find inspiration about -- in that. And they want to find out more about it -- Max.

FOSTER: Yes, Maggie he -- I mean it comes across that he's an imperfect person, isn't he?

He might be a perfect businessman, but he's an imperfect person.

So is there anything else, any of those personal tidbits that you think really give a sense of the man?

LAKE: Yes, you know, it's really interesting. And, of course, I haven't gone through it myself, although I do plan to read it, even with my limited time.

But one of the things that jumped out is some of the pranks he pulled in elementary school. It tells you right away this is someone who did not sort of listen to authority, he had his own ideas. It's -- actually, that's very charming, of course, later on.

But, you know, it's interesting, Steve Jobs knew that they were going to be things in this book that were unflattering. He wanted it to be that way. His wife was very clear about the fact that this should be an accurate account of Steve Jobs, not a -- a whitewash. And she said that to Walter Isaacson. It says in the fore -- in the forward here, which is very interesting.

So they really want this to be about his legacy. And I think the fact that he is complicated, but yet was able to be so successful, is -- is part of the sort of magic of it.

FOSTER: OK, Maggie, thank you very much.

Good luck on getting some time to read that book.

It looks pretty chunky.

We're going to have a look at how shares are trading over there in New York.

A caution -- cautious optimism, I think we can say there is, about the Eurozone. So it's up nearly 1 percent. Major banks like Citigroup and Bank of America up around 3 percent. Also strong earnings from Caterpillar today.

So that's what's been driving things there.


I'm Max Foster in London.

Thank you so much for watching.

"MARKETPLACE EUROPE" with Richard is next.



I'm Richard Quest.

This week, we are meeting business leaders who tell us all about the importance of innovation and providing the market with what it wants -- crucially, being prepared to change direction at short notice in these difficult, challenging trading times.

(voice-over): This week, we visit the Adidas headquarters in Nuremburg, Southern Germany, where we take to the track with the chief executive, Herbert Hainer, who tells us Europe is more than just one market.

We also meet up with the head of Western Europe for Heineken, Europe's largest brewer. In challenging times, Heineken has been forced to overhaul its marketing strategy.

(on camera): It is tough to be a retailer in Europe at that moment. Take a look at the latest numbers.

For the year up until August, retail sales in the Eurozone were down 1 percent. Even the strongest country, Germany, was badly affected.

Those outside the Zone and the Union didn't fare much better either. Switzerland hit by a very strong currency, the Swiss saw retail sales down 1.9 percent.

So it's not surprising the ripple effects are being felt far and wide.

(voice-over): Upon closer examination, it's clear that the European picture is extremely patchy. Retail trade, for instance, in Luxembourg was up by an impressive 11.7 percent, whereas the figures were down by a miserable 4.6 percent in one of the continent's largest economies, Spain.

The drop in retail trade figures was mainly due to a dip in sales in non-food products, which shows that consumers are reluctant to buy what they simply don't need.

That leaves companies in a difficult position. Cautious consumers do not leave much room for growth. Innovation and diversification are the key to survival and success.

(on camera): There are few areas on the High Street more competitive than sports wear and lifestyle. And few companies know that better than the German group, Adidas, which saw a dramatic drop in profits, down 97 percent, just a couple of years ago.

The chief executive,, has managed to turn things around, as he explained to our Berlin correspondent, Fred Pleitgen.


FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right now, it's a very challenging economic climate pretty much worldwide. However, your company is doing very well.

How do you do it?

HERBERT HAINER, CEO, ADIDAS GROUP: Good, first and foremost, I think over the last 10, 15 years, we were able to really create desirable brands. And this is what the consumer is really appreciating. And it's not only the Adidas brand, it's the Reebok brand, it's the TaylorMade brand. And this is what consumers are looking for.

We could see it in 2009, when the financial and the economic crisis were. We only had a drop in revenues by 4 percent compared to 2008, which was our most successful year.

So even in tough times, consumers are looking for new, innovative products and I think our brand is delivering that.

PLEITGEN: And that gives you stability in these hard times, as well?

HAINER: Exactly. When you look, for example, into the first six months of 2011, then you could have seen that we growing with all our brands, with Adidas, Reebok, TaylorMade. And we are growing everywhere in the world.

So we have an unbelievable healthy situation because we have global brands bringing permanently newly innovated products to the market.

And this is what the consumers really appreciate. If you just (INAUDIBLE) two products, then they definitely will not buy it, especially in tough times. But innovative products always are attracting consumers.

PLEITGEN: One thing that's very underestimated steering a company like this is choosing the next direction to go into. One of the things that's obviously been very successful is transforming the brand from a sports brand into something that's almost a fashion label now, isn't it?

Tell me about how that went, how that's going and what you want to achieve there.

HAINER: Good. We definitely have extended our business into the lifestyle and fashion side. I would not agree that we are a fashion label, but we are highly attractive, also, to the consumers from a fashion aspect.

What we have done 10 years ago, when we saw that there is a huge consumer base outside which loves the brand, especially the Adidas brand, but also wants to wear our products after they have done their sport. And then we created new collections. We worked together with outside designers. For example, Yohji Yamamoto, Stella McCartney, and we splitted the Adidas brand into two divisions -- the performance division and the style division or originals, at that time, which mainly goes to the lifestyle and fashion consumer.

And we split the two brands up to have a targeted communication, a targeted product offering for this specific market. And we said together, we mean more to most consumers and this is what -- who we are today.

PLEITGEN: Europe is also in a very difficult economic situation.

What would you -- what would your tip be for people who want to do business in Europe?

How -- how can you be successful in Europe right now?

HAINER: I think Europe is still a huge market. But it's a mature market. Or the emerging markets in Europe, especially Russia, when you look to our business in Russia, Russia is the third biggest country now for us within the Adidas Group, bigger than Germany, bigger than France, bigger than England.

So there is still a lot of business to be done in Europe.

Obviously, Europe has a different climate, different consumers bases and you cannot, especially when you go into lifestyle and fashion, you cannot trust to take the consumer base in Europe and say this is one consumer. You have to be more specific.

But in general, what is in Europe extremely important is, for us, that football is, by far, the most dominant sport and we are the football brand number one in the world. Football is the heart of our soul. And this gives us the driving engine here in Europe.


QUEST: The Shoe Shop window in London shows the challenge facing Adidas and Herbert Hainer, as they do business in these challenging markets.

What to do -- innovate, innovate, innovate. So says the head of Western Europe for Heineken, after the break.



If retail sales are in trouble, it's not much better when it comes to liquid refreshment. Their sales are down some 8 percent over the past couple of years. And that's created a challenge for Europe's largest brewer, Heineken.

The head of Western Europe, Didler Debrosse, told Juliet Mann, now the secret is all about innovation.


JULIET MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At this hyper (ph) of market near Paris, there's so much choice you'd be forgiven for feeling a little overwhelmed.

Just as in Europe's marketplace, where many companies are wondering around aimlessly, struggling to find the right ingredients to get back to growth.

But Heineken is parking its shopping cart here. While European consumers watch what they spend, staying in is the new going out. That's why the beer maker is finding ways to sell away from restaurants and bars, stacking up supermarket shelves with a whole lot more choice.

DIDLER DEBROSSE, REGIONAL PRESIDENT, WESTERN EUROPE, HEINEKEN: The idea is to try to make beer and our brand more relevant at home. As a consumer, sometimes I want to enjoy just a can on the (INAUDIBLE). Sometimes I want to have just a small beer when I am back home, something like that.

So the idea is really to cover all the consumer models.

MANN: Heineken has revamped displays and its range, like with these five liter kegs, working much more closely with retailers like Carrefour. The result is 3 percent more sales here than anywhere else last year. Modest, yes, but it's a start.

DEBROSSE: It's all about innovation, innovation, innovation. And we have introduced cider in Italy and in the Netherlands. In some markets that we just acquire residency, like Portugal, we are pushing the Heineken brand big time. And we believe that this brand has a big, big, big potential in -- in Portugal.

So I think that we are moving quite -- quite quickly.

MANN: Analysts say the way to compete is to chase consumers.

Jonny 6:232

They are failing to engage consumers. And all of the research we've seen shows that people are getting just a little bit bored. They want something different. They're finding beer a little bit of a homogenized product.

So, again, it really comes down to innovation.

DEBROSSE: Pumping up promotions and making in less traditional ways is a strategy that's working inside this industry and outside, in the wider business world.

(on camera): Around 1,500 companies of all sizes have their headquarters here, at Levisons' (ph), Europe's biggest purpose built business district. And it's about to get even bigger. It's in the middle of a massive nine year regeneration program.

It seems the mindset for survival and success is to think outside the box.


QUEST: Didler Debrosse at Heineken.

And clearly, in these difficult times, we must all do what we can. I see a little bit of retail therapy coming on.

And that's MARKETPLACE EUROPE for this week.

I'm Richard Quest.

Follow me on Twitter, @richardquest. Otherwise, whatever your market in Europe, I hope it's profitable.

I'll see you next week.