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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Apple Founder Steve Jobs Dies
Aired October 5, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. Thanks, Erin.
We are sticking, obviously, with the breaking news. Truly heartbreaking for the tens of millions of people who own Apple products, who think of themselves as fans not just customers. Apple co-founder, chief wizard and former CEO Steve Jobs has died at 56. The cause of death not yet known. Though of course he had been battling against cancer for years.
Just moments ago, Apple put out a statement, saying, quote, "Apple lost a visionary and creative genius and the world lost an amazing human being." They went on to say, "Those of us who have been fortunate enough to know and work with Steve have lost a dear friend and an inspiring mentor. Steve," the statement concludes, "leaves behind a company that only he could have built and his spirit will forever be the foundation of Apple."
Go to the Apple site and this is what you see. Steve Jobs. His death came the day after Apple unveiled a new line of products with the kind of show-and-tell he once was famous for. A lot of talk about that tonight. We're going to start with a look back at the life of Steve Jobs with Dan Simon.
STEVE JOBS, APPLE FOUNDER AND CEO: Today Apple is going to reinvent the phone.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Steve Jobs was a modern-day Thomas Edison.
JOBS: You can do multi-finger gestures on it and, boy, have we patented it.
SIMON: He didn't have a patent on his own look but he was rarely seen without tennis shoes, Levi's and a black shirt. He was legendary for his flair and showmanship.
JOBS: Amazing. The screen literally float in midair.
SIMON: Stephen Paul Jobs was born in San Francisco. His mother, an unwed college student, put him up for adoption. He developed an early interest in computers. Going to after-school lectures at Hewlett-Packard. After high school, he attended Reed College but only for one semester. At just 20 years old, he started Apple Computer in his garage with friend Steve Wozniak.
JOBS: We worked hard and in 10 years Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion company with over 4,000 employees.
SIMON: That was Jobs in 2005. Giving the commencement address at Stanford University.
JOBS: You have to trust in something. Your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. Because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well-worn path. And that will make all the difference.
SIMON: In 1984, Apple introduced a machine that changed our lives forever. The Macintosh. Revolutionary because it made computers easier to use. It had a funny little thing called a mouse that allowed users to change fonts. But the Mac was expensive and sales were sluggish. In 1985, Steve Jobs was forced out of Apple. But it turned out he was just warming up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Buzz Light Year, space ranger.
SIMON: In 1986, he both Pixar Animation Studios which later produced hits like "Toy Story." He also started a computer company called Next.
JOBS: I hope you get a chance to look at this a little later. It's the most beautiful print and circuit board I've ever seen in my life.
SIMON: The technology was so innovative that in a twist of fate, Apple bought Next and Steve Jobs went back to work for the company he started.
His second act, considered one of the greatest CEO tenures of all time.
JOBS: It's called the iPod touch.
SIMON: Who knew a computer company would change how we listened to music? Steve Jobs introduced the iconic iPod.
JOBS: Just slide it across. Boom.
SIMON: The iPhone, and later what some believe would be his grandest achievement, the iPad.
JOBS: That's what it looks like. Very thin.
SIMON: Apple dropped the computer from its name to reflect the company's expansion into consumer electronics.
JOBS: Now I'm going to take this morning and talk about the iPhone. SIMON: In recent years, Jobs no longer appeared his usual self. He was noticeably thin and frail. And investors and Apple faithful grew alarmed because of Jobs' past struggle with pancreatic cancer.
In 2009 Jobs revealed he had a liver transplant after taking a six-month leave of absence. But he returned to the stage with his usual vigor.
JOBS: It is our new MacBook Air and we think it's the future of notebooks.
SIMON: Eventually, though, his struggle with ill health led him to step down as CEO. In a letter to the Apple board of directors, jobs wrote, "I have always said if there ever came a day when could I no longer meet my duties and expectations as Apple CEO, I would be the first to let you know. Unfortunately, that day has come."
"I have made some of the best friends of my life at Apple," he added. "And I thank you for all the many years of being able to work alongside you."
Steve Jobs' legacy can be found in his devices. Long anesthetics and attention to detail. He followed his heart, and with his technology --
JOBS: We are calling it iPhone.
SIMON: -- changed the world.
COOPER: Truly one of the most remarkable innovators of our time.
Dan Simon join us now along with 360 MD Sanjay Gupta.
Pancreatic cancer. That's what he had, Sanjay?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It was pancreatic cancer. They think it was a variant of pancreatic cancer. It was a type of neuroendoctrine tumor. But basically the pancreas makes all sorts of different hormones including insulin. The cells that make insulin, they think it was a tumor of those cells.
But pancreatic cancer, as you may know, Anderson, is a -- it's a tough, tough cancer. Just haven't made great progress in terms of treatments, let alone cures for this.
COOPER: If -- why would he had a liver transplant if he had pancreatic cancer?
GUPTA: It's a good question. I mean there are -- there's been some studies recently. It's not a commonly done thing, and you remember, he sort of had this done literally, you know, by night. And he went to Memphis, Tennessee, he told no one about it, got this liver transplant. And even among the medical community, it's a bit of a controversial thing. There's some data to suggest that doing a liver transplant can help with how well a pancreatic cancer is amenable to treatment, how well someone can recover overall. And in his case, it may have provided some benefit. Because, again, the statistics for pancreatic cancers across the board are terrible statistics, 20 percent, a few years survival.
COOPER: Just a few years survival.
GUPTA: Just a few years survival. And I think, you know, he was -- he talked to his company in 2004 about his diagnosis but I think he was actually diagnosed in 2003. You may remember he spent about a year at that point not getting conventional therapy. He was somebody who spent a lot of time traveling around the world and thought he should -- he could treat this with herbs and nontraditional therapies. But in 2004, he started this conventional therapy in earnest.
COOPER: We're joined on the phone by Leander Kahney, he's the editor and publisher Cultofmac.com. He's the author of "Inside Steve's Brain."
Leander, thanks for being with us on what is obviously a very sad day for those who knew and loved Steve Jobs and also for all of us who have come to rely on his products.
What are your thoughts on hearing of his passing?
LEANDER KAHNEY, EDITOR AND PUBLISHER, CULTOFMAC.COM (via phone): Well, yes, I was really shocked. Even though, you know, it was -- it was inevitable. It was going to come soon and we all knew that. But I'm still shocked, yes, and upset by the news.
COOPER: What do you think it was about him that enabled him to think in the way he did? I mean that enabled him to create things that we now just take for granted but we couldn't have imagined before they -- before he revealed them on that stage, standing in that black turtleneck?
KAHNEY: Yes, you know, that's -- that was sort of the $64 million question. It's the question about where does -- you know, such an incredible innovation come from. But he was focused on the experience, of using a product, and his -- you know his goals are very different than the rest of the tech industry. And he wanted to make technology -- advanced technology, which is usually complex, he wanted to make it simple and easy to use for ordinary consumer, even kids.
And that was -- you know always his goal from the very beginning of his career. And it -- you know, and because of that, it allowed -- you know, he gave him a focus on things like design and ease of use. And he wasn't willing -- he was such a perfectionist that he wasn't willing to put something out half done. So he would often go down a path, you know, making lots and lots of prototype, investing a lot of times many years in developing products until, you know, they were perfect and this is how he was able to come up with the -- you know, the string of amazing inventions. COOPER: His younger life was really extraordinary. I mean, the -- not only the accomplishments at 21 with Steve Wozniak but even before that, he -- I understand he even called up the head of Hewlett- Packard when he was a teenager in order to get some spare parts and ended up getting a summer job with them.
KAHNEY: Right. He always had a lot of nerve. And you know that was one of the other things, too. I mean he was always -- he always went for the best. He was a bit of a snob really, a bit of an elitist, and he always wanted the best. That's why he went to the head of the biggest company in Silicon Valley at the time.
But that's why he also ended up recruiting, you know, sort of the best architects to build the Apple Store, the best programs, to Mac OS operating system the best hardware engineers to make his computers. The best designer by Johnny Ive. You know it's a shortcut to get, you know, excellence when you're working on something.
COOPER: When he did come out with that first computer, I mean just explain the importance of that and just how revolutionary it was at the time.
KAHNEY: Well, yes, the Apple II was the first computer designed for ordinary --you know ordinary consumers. And either computers were a thing that big companies bought and they needed an entire -- you know massive room or a warehouse to put it in and they needed a team of operators to run it, or you bought a bunch of chips in a kit and you had to solve it together yourself on your -- you know your workshop table.
So he was the first person to say, OK, we're going to make something that someone can just pull out of a box and plug it in and be ready to go. And you know it's kind of pretty revolutionary. No one else was doing this at the time. And other PCs were, like I said, were built from chips.
COOPER: We're --
KAHNEY: You know, this is his agenda and -- this is how he got interested in design and ease of use.
COOPER: We're getting actually three new statements about Steve Jobs' death. This is a statement by Apple's board of directors. I'm just going to read it to you off my computer.
"We're deeply saddened to announce that Steve Jobs passed away today. Steve's brilliance, passion and energy were the source of countless innovations that enrich and improve all our lives. The world is immeasurably better because of Steve. His greatest love was for his wife Laurene and his family. Our hearts go out to them and to all who were touched by his extraordinary gifts".
The CEO of Apple Tim Cook today sent the following e-mail to all his employees.
"Team, I have some very sad news to share with all of you. Steve passed away earlier today. Apple has lost a visionary and creative genius, and the world has lost an amazing human being. Those of us who have been fortunate enough to know and work with Steve have lost a dear friend and an inspiring mentor. Steve leaves behind a company that only he could have built and his spirit will forever be the foundation of Apple.
"We are planning a celebration of Steve's extraordinary life for Apple employees. It will take place soon. If you'd like to share your thoughts, memories and condolences," and then it gives an address for Apple employees. It says -- goes on to say, "No words can adequately express our sadness at Steve's death or our gratitude for the opportunity to work with him. We will honor his memory by dedicating ourselves to continuing the work he loves so much."
And then Steve Jobs' family -- this is the final statement we received -- released this statement. "Steve died peacefully today surrounded by his family. In his public life, Steve was known as a visionary. In his private life, he cherished his family. We're thankful to the many people who shared their wishes and prayers during the last year of Steve's illness. A Web site will be provided for those who wish to offer tributes and memories. We are grateful for the support and kindness of those who share our feelings for Steve. We know many of you will mourn with us and we ask that you respect our privacy during our time of grief."
In terms of the business of Apple, I mean,, what happens now? The company obviously has a new CEO. Does the innovation continue? Does Steve -- without Steve Jobs, can Apple continue in the same way, the same rate that it has?
KAHNEY: I don't think it's going to have the same magic. It's not going to have -- you know we saw that yesterday with the release of the iPhone 4S. And you know Cook doesn't have that same charisma, the same enthusiasm, the same passion, for the products that Jobs did.
You know on the one hand, it's got such incredible momentum that nothing is going to stop it. It's a huge runaway train. And they've got products in the pipeline for, you know, at least two generations. So for several years. And I don't think anything is going to stop that.
But the other thing, too, is that I think in the last 10 years, I mean Jobs -- you know, no one knew that Jobs was such a great businessman. He was a really great CEO. And he's really made that company in his image. It does things the Steve Jobs way. And I think, you know, that's really important. He's got a great team. They've got great process. And I think that's a lot of (INAUDIBLE) saying. I think there's a really good chance. I'd say 75/25, you know, that they will be able to continue his legacy, just by continue to do things the way they have been doing the last 10 years.
COOPER: Leander, what -- after Steve Jobs basically invented the personal computer, as you said, or the first personal computer for home use, his foray into next, explain what happened there. Because -- I mean, at first he went to Next and then he left and then Apple bought it. Was that a failure or was the -- I mean, the product itself didn't catch on but the technology, how important was that?
KAHNEY: Yes, you're right. At the time, it was considered a massive failure. And people were sort of surprised and a little bit amused that Apple bought it back. But it went -- the technology he developed there went on to lay the foundation for the Mac OS 10, the operating system for the Macintosh computers which was also -- which had also been adapted for the iPod, the iPhone and the iPad.
So it laid the foundation for the software, which is such an important part of what Apple does. And, you know, I think he recruited a lot of talent there. A lot of the executives that are in charge at Apple now came from Next. And he also learned how to be a better manager. When he got fired from Apple when he went to set up Next, you know, he was a very -- very (INAUDIBLE), very unfocused, you know, could be all over the place. He's a terrorist really. They called him a terrorist inside Apple.
And during the years at Next, he not only learned how to work with people and delegate, and to trust other people's instincts. So, you know, again, I think it set up all of the circumstances for his latest success. The foundation in which he built on.
COOPER: Sanjay, were you surprised that he was able to continue working for so long? It was only just this past April I think that he --
GUPTA: Right. Yes, I mean I think in January he said he was taking a leave. In August, he said that -- you know that leave was going to be permanent.
I was, you know, if you look at the numbers overall, I mean 2003, again, to now, eight years, is a long time to survive, let alone to have been able to function at the level that he was. And he was fighting hard, Anderson. I mean, by all accounts. 2003 to 2004, he was trying his own therapies. In 2004, he had surgery to remove the tumor.
He had different therapies at that point. He took a -- took a trip to Switzerland. I remember when I was in Davos this past year, they were telling me about a trip that Steve Jobs had made there a couple of years prior for a somewhat unconventional treatment. He was trying anything. The liver transplant, we mentioned, in Memphis.
It was only two months after the transplant that we've even found out that he had one. But the point of all that is to say that he really -- he really was trying to fight this, to combat it at all levels. He talked about the fact that it was a hormone problem at some point. Really shied away from calling it a cancer at any given point.
But it was a variant of pancreatic cancer which again is a -- it's a tough disease. Caused the extreme weight loss that you saw there. Just very gaunt he became. And that's to be expected.
COOPER: What is the weight -- is it just you can't -- I mean, you just don't have an appetite or -- GUPTA: Part of it it's very hard to digest food sometimes. Part of it is the cancer itself which literally can cause wasting of the body. Caused wasting of the various muscles. It's a hormonal imbalance. So your insulin levels can rise and it can cause glucose to be driven into tissue very quickly. So it's a combination of things. But again, pretty typical sort of appearance with this. But eight years is a pretty long time. Especially to function at the level that he was functioning.
COOPER: Bill Gates has released a statement. Bill Gates, obviously the former chief executive of Microsoft, said -- this would be "The New York Times" Web site. That he, quote, was -- was quote, "Truly saddened to learn of Steve Jobs' death." He went on to say, "The world rarely sees someone who has had the profound impact Steve has had. The effects of which will be felt for many generations to come. For those of us lucky enough to get to work with him, it's been an insanely great honor. I will miss Steve immensely."
Obviously, sentiment echoed by many people. The -- actually I'm just getting another -- there's an e-mail address up on the Apple Web site for everyone to use. If you would like to share your thoughts, your memories, your condolences, you can e-mail, rememberingSteve@Apple.com. So it's RememberingSteve, one word, @Apple.com.
Dan, in terms of -- at what point did -- was this statement made? When exactly did this news break? I mean it was literally just before we went on air, correct?
SIMON: It was about, yes, 30 minutes ago when this was announced. And you know, the thing about Steve Jobs is there were some bumpy patches. But what was incredible is he was able to come back and revive Apple's fortunes after years of basically neglect if you will.
The company really suffered from some bad products in the '90s and at one time almost went bankrupt. And Gil Amelio, he was the CEO at the time, was impressed with what Steve Jobs was doing over at Next. The computer itself over at Next was a complete failure. It was expensive. Nobody bought it. But he saw some genius in the software. And so he brought Steve Jobs back. And purchased Next.
And then essentially Steve Jobs became CEO again. And we all know what happened over the next decade or so. Hit after hit. First the iPod, which was really the singular product that brought Apple back. I mean, it was a phenomenal success. Not only changed how we listen to music but changed the music industry.
And then a couple of years later, you of course had the iPhone, which now is the best-selling product for Apple. Apple gets most of its revenue now actually from the iPhone. And then produced another hit with the iPad. The iPad dominates the tablet market. Basically invented the tablet market. They have about a 70 percent market share when it comes to those devices.
And so, you know, that's the thing with Steve Jobs, is it's one thing to just produce one hit product. But to do it time and time again, it's unheard of.
COOPER: And -- we're joined also by Andy Serwer, the managing editor of "Fortune" magazine. I mean I just keep thinking about how he has changed our eye. Because I mean just things that we couldn't even imagine the notion of a mouse or the notion of the kind of screens that you have on the iPad or the way the technology works on the iPod.
And now it just -- it's assumed that's the way these machines are built. There's very few people who have created things out of whole cloth.
ANDY SERWER, FORTUNE MANAGING EDITOR: Yes, I mean he's the most innovative business man, business person, of our time, Anderson. And --
COOPER: Without -- you're saying of our time, without a doubt the most innovative.
SERWER: Without a doubt. I mean there's no one that comes close because if you think of all the businesses, and all the products and services and markets that he's revolutionized, it's not just the computing business. But it's also the telephone business. Telephony. The movie business with Pixar. Revolutionize that as well.
Retailing. Think about Apple Stores. Think about product design. All these things. All these different parts of business. And beyond that, it becomes a cultural and societal thing as well. I mean it's hard to overstate his impact on business and society and culture.
COOPER: Do you think Apple, the company itself, now changes or loses -- I was talking to Leander before, he saying, you know, maybe it's lost some of the magic that Steve brought to it.
SERWER: Well, I mean he's irreplaceable. And you know they have a very able team, a very deep bench. Tim Cook, the CEO, is an incredibly smart and able executive. However, you just can't replace someone like that. I mean, you know, you've heard him describe --
COOPER: That's Steve Cook on the left.
SERWER: That's Tim Cook.
COOPER: I'm sorry, Tim Cook on the left.
SERWER: On the left. On the left. Yes, I mean you've heard Steve Jobs described as the Thomas Edison of our time. So imagine losing Thomas Edison. You know, it just -- there's one person like that per generation, per our lifetime. So it's hard to imagine they'll be able to replace him.
The company will go on fine for a number of years. It may go on for a very long time. But it won't be the same company.
COOPER: Leander, do you agree that he was the Thomas Edison of our time?
KAHNEY: Absolutely, yes. And you know the Henry Ford and the Walt Disney, too. His products have had as much impact as things like the telephone and the automobile. You know, they've become universal. They've changed not only the way that we work but also the way we play, the way we're entertained, the way we communicate. You know they touch all aspects of our lives.
COOPER: And will for a long time.
SERWER: I think he's -- you know, one thing to talk about, too, Anderson, is his persona, and what a charismatic and powerful individual he was on a personal level. How he was able to motivate people at Apple and inspire people. And also, you know, create fear and loathing as well amongst competitors.
So not only was he changing his company but also Silicon Valley. So everything was going on, Hewlett-Packard and Cisco and Oracle, he really -- and Microsoft, of course. He -- you know really impacted those companies. Disney, he had a huge impact. You know the board member of Disney --
COOPER: With Pixar.
SERWER: With Pixar and the largest shareholder of Disney as well, a huge impact on that company. So his tentacles and his knowledge base spread out throughout corporate America --
COOPER: It's rare that you find somebody within one person who is, you know, technologically savvy enough to, you know, create the personal computer but also incredibly savvy business person.
SERWER: Yes, I mean, so often people who found companies are just entrepreneurs and they can't keep up. He was incredibly curious, incredibly ambitious, incredibly motivated, incredibly competitive. And he had this thing where he believed he was right. And it was a personal thing about his taste.
I have the best taste. I have the best way of doing these things. And he was driven to show the rest of the world that he had this ability and, as you suggest, Anderson, in field after field after field, I mean, it's just almost unimaginable that way.
COOPER: We're going to take a quick break. We're going to continue our coverage. We'll be right back in a moment.
COOPER: The breaking news tonight, the sad news tonight, Apple co-founder Steve Jobs has died. Just 56 years old. Had battled cancer for years. The disease, as you saw, laid waste to his body. We're left with his incredible legacy and his words. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shall prevail. JOBS: Today, for the first time ever, I'd like to let Macintosh speak for itself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, I am Macintosh. It sure is great to get out of that bag.
JOBS: We think a lot of them are going to get into the home but we like to say they're going to get there through the garage door. People are going to bring them home over the weekend to work on something. Sunday morning, they're not going to be able to get their kids away from them. And maybe somebody they'll even buy a second one to leave at home.
The strangest thing about Apple is it hasn't had a good consumer product. Here's one of the best consumer brands in the world and they haven't had a compelling product under $2,000. And the one we introduced today, the iMac, is incredibly sweet. So I think it's going to make a big difference.
Well, this $1299 product is faster than the fastest Pentium II you can buy. You can go out and buy a 400-megahertz Pentium II and this thing smokes it. And so it's amazing. And the markets never had a consumer product this powerful and this cool looking.
What is IPod? IPod is an MP3 music player, has CD quality music, and it plays all of the popular open formats of digital music. But the biggest thing about iPod is it holds 1,000 songs. Now this is a quantum leap because it's your -- for most people, it's their entire music library. This is huge. The coolest thing about iPod is that whole -- your entire music library fits in your pockets.
I've got a pocket right here. Now this pocket has been the one that your iPod's going in traditionally. The iPod and the iPod Mini fit great in there.
Ever wonder what this pocket is for? I've always wondered that. Well, now we know. Because this is the new iPod Nano.
Today, Apple is going to reinvent the phone. An iPod. A phone and an internet communicator. An iPod. A phone. Are you getting it? These are not three separate devices. This is one device and we are calling it iPhone.
The question has arisen lately, is there room for a third category of device in the middle? Something that's between a laptop and a smart phone? And of course we've pondered this question for years as well. The bar's pretty high.
In order to really create a new category of devices, those devices are going to have to be far better at doing some key tasks and we call it the iPad. And what this device does is extraordinary.
You can browse the web with it. It is the best browsing experience you've ever had. It's phenomenal to see a whole web page right in front of you can manipulate with your fingers. It's unbelievably great. Way better than a laptop. Way better than a smart phone.
For 2010, we're going to take the biggest leap since the original iPhone. And so today, today we're introducing iPhone 4, the fourth generation iPhone. Stop me if you've already seen this. Believe me, you ain't seen it. You've got to see this thing in person.
It is one of the most beautiful designs you've ever seen. Johnny, I grew up here in the U.S. with "The Jetsons" and with "Star Trek" and communicators and just dreaming about this, you know, dreaming about video calling. It's real now.
Good morning. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to introduce today iPad 2, the second generation iPad. It is an all new design. It is not a tweaked design. It's not got marginal improvements. It's a completely new design.
And the first thing is, it's dramatically faster. One of the most startling things about the iPad 2 is it is dramatically thinner. Not a little bit thinner, a third thinner. And that is iPad 2.
As always, I'd also like to thank everyone's families, because they support us and let us do what we love to do. So thank you very much, to our extended families out there, who make it possible for us to work our tails off making these great products for you.
COOPER: Incredible when you see the career that Steve Jobs has had. I'm joined by Dan Simon, Sanjay Gupta, Andy Serwer, Leander Kahney, editor and publisher, cultofmac.com.
Andy, we were talking while watching that. I mean, it is extraordinary when you just see it. You remember, yes, the candy- colored Macs, I forgot about those. You knew him. You interacted with him, sometimes volatile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another thing that I was reminded, when I saw that taped piece, he's a master marketer, Anderson --
COOPER: His presentations are incredible.
ANDY SERWER, FORTUNE MANAGING EDITOR: -- incredible set the bar for that. Just another accomplishment of his. But on a personal level interacting with him, you know, could be fraught. You know, he had a very certain purpose when he met with you and something he wanted to accomplish.
And he'd, you know, he did what it took to get things done and sometimes he would yell at me, absolutely. He would, you know, very forcefully tell me what he thought of me in some very colorful language, either in person or on the phone.
COOPER: What's it like to be yelled at by Steve Jobs?
SERWER: Really interesting thing, Anderson, when you get this phone call, and it could be anywhere, anytime. And the phone call would go like this, Andy, and there would be this pause, Steve Jobs. And he said it very self-consciously.
You'd be like, whoa, you know, Steve Jobs on the line and then he'd say, one time I remember he'd say, you know, if you don't do this, I am going to be so ticked. You know, and then on and on and just kind of ranting at you right away.
Another time he would call you up and say this thing's really good, you're on track. But, you know, it was when he wanted to reach out to someone personally, he would do it and there would be no uncertain terms how he felt about it. And, you know, he would get in your face sometimes.
And, you know, he was -- he was a powerful person, powerful person. You don't mess with him. You mess with him, but you'd have to be sure of your footing as well.
ANDERSON: Leander, publisher of the cultofmac.com, with us on the phone. Leander, when he took over Pixar, it really wasn't at the level -- I mean, he very quickly had major successes with it once he took it over, right?
LEANDER KAHNEY, EDITOR AND PUBLISHER, CULTOMAC.COM (via telephone): No, it took years for Pixar to get off the ground or even to just find a business model. He pulled in about $60 million --
COOPER: I didn't realize that.
KAHNEY: -- of his own money -- yes, to keep it afloat. He tried to remake Pixar originally as a kind of next. They were selling high- end workstations that ran special animation software, trying to sell it to the movie industry. And that didn't really take off.
Then they just started selling the software on its own. Then they started trying to sell, you know, services. They ended up selling -- making nice ads, special effects for TV advertisements. They did a couple demos.
It was such a hit Disney said they would finance some movies -- they wanted to make some movies. He went to Hollywood, took a two- week screen writing course, and that led to "Toy Story."
COOPER: Are you serious, really? He took a two-week screen writing course? That's funny.
KAHNEY: Yes, they fumbled around for a long time. They had a series of layoffs. This is what Steve Jobs does well. He kept on this sort of -- so they hired and then they fired and they stumbled from one thing to another.
He always believed in John Lassiter and Ed Catwell and the other guys that run that company. And he kept them on no matter what until they found what they were good at. And the funny thing is, Pixar's very similar to Apple.
Pixar has had an unprecedented run, like 12 blockbuster movies. And they're all made by this sort of small cohesive team of creators who all work at one movie at a time. They all work hard together. Everybody who's involved with it, the marketing team, the animators and they polish it.
They often come to a problem and they'll scrap and start again. This is exactly the same way that Apple works. They have sort of a smallish team, the designers and programmers. They all work together on one product.
Often scrap it and start over again. This is one of the reasons why I feel optimistic about Apple's future is because this creative process is so powerful.
COOPER: What do you think, Andy, it was that drove Steve Jobs? What drives somebody to create something at 21 and then continue to just -- I mean, never resting on his laurels, never taking the foot of his pedal, just continuing to innovate.
SERWER: It was this personal ambition to show the world that he was right, that he had -- I keep going back to this word taste. It was the biggest insult he would ever say to you. Is that you have bad taste.
But he meant that in a holistic way. That you had no taste when it comes to making phones or making television or making movies or making -- making stores.
COOPER: Because that is something that is so striking. I mean, the beauty of everything, the beauty of the store. Even the look of him on that stage is very thought out.
SERWER: Yes, those presentations - orchestration, Anderson, is the word. He'd orchestrate everything. Product launches. The small teams, that's true. But you know, Apple's become a huge company. So to orchestrate a product launch of the iPad on a global scale like that is incredible.
I mean, you have all these iPads made. You don't let anyone know. You have a presentation in San Francisco that's totally secret until the moment it happens. Then you spring it on the world. A few days later there are these new devices, brand-new devices, in stores all around the world, all around the country initially, right away and they work perfectly.
I mean, you know, it's amazing. They're all coming from China. They're being made. They work. They're connected to software that works seamlessly. I mean, these accomplishments in terms of supply chain, which is kind of business geek talk, but just making everything work like that, trust me, it's incredibly complicated.
COOPER: Yes, I can't even really imagine. On the phone is Steven Levy, the "Wired" magazine senior writer. He's interviewed Jobs many times.
You know, Steve, we've been talking for, now, 40 minutes about him, and learning new things along the way. I mean, what are your thoughts this evening, this very sad evening? STEVEN LEVY, SENIOR WRITER, WIRED MAGAZINE: Spectacularly sad. There was no one else like him. There were six things he did at least in his career, any one of which would have been, you know, absolutely remarkable.
You know, you could just pick them off, the Apple 2, the Macintosh, Pixar, the iPhone, the iPad, the iPod of course. Who knows how many more he would have done. COOPER: What do you think was his drive? I mean, a lot of people think people are driven by money. He clearly had more than enough money than he would ever use. What do you think it was that pushed him?
LEVY: Well, certainly wasn't money. I think, you know, he was just electrified the power you can get to change the world with this technology there. He was of the generation that was affected by the '60s. There was something a little dirty about business for people who grew up in that era there.
What he did was he applied this field of technology, which could do things -- allowed people to do things they could never do before. You know, and merge the idealism of the '60s with business by use of that technology. He added this element of art to it as well.
In later life, he really was able to explain it by talking about how he could merge technology and the liberal arts. There was a rebel aspect to it. You really saw that when he came out with the Macintosh, as he spurred his team on by calling them pirates.
I think that really was his happiest time producing a product because he had this team that, against all odds, came up with something that did change the world. As he said, it put a dent in the universe.
SERWER: You know, one thing I think to add on to that point that Steve just made is that for many decades, Anderson, technology was all about business and was all about guys in suits in rooms with giant computers.
And if you think about when Apple really hit its stride, it moved technology from businesspeople to consumers. So right now, consumer technology is at the fore. In fact, consumer technology's what's driving the technology world, not business technology.
We're all using sort of old PCs at work. Where we have these really cool iPhones and iPads and these kinds of gadgets. Then you come to work with these things and say how come my consumer technology's better than my business technology? That's in large part because of Steve Jobs and Apple.
COOPER: We want to talk about the illness he was facing with Dr. Sanjay Gupta in just a moment. This is on Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook page, the creator of Facebook. Steve, thank you for being a mentor and a friend. Thanks for showing that what you billed can change the world. I will miss you.
We're going to take a short break. Our coverage of the life and career and death of Steve Jobs continues.
COOPER: Our breaking news tonight, Steve Jobs dead at the age of 56. He once recruited a top executive to Apple by asking him, do you want to sell the rest of your life selling sugar water or do you want to change the world?
Whether it came to products or words, Steve Jobs had the touch. That way with words held true over the years including this moment speaking to graduates at his hometown university, Stanford.
JOBS: My third story is about death. When I was 17, I read a quote that went something like, if you live each day as if it was your last, some day you'll most certainly be right. It made an impression on me and since then for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked at myself, if today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I'm about to do today?
If the answer is no for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. Remembering that all be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything, all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure, these things just fall away in the face of death.
Leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.
About a year ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the morning and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of cancer that is incurable and that I should expect to live no longer than three to six months.
My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in order, which is doctor's code for prepare to die. It means to try and tell your kids everything. You thought you'd have the next 10 years to tell them in just a few months. It means to make sure everything is buttoned up so it will be as easy as possible for your family.
It means to say your goodbyes. I live with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening, I had a biopsy where they stuck an endescope down my throat, through my stomach into my intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the tumor.
I was sedated, but my wife who was there told me that when they viewed the cells under the microscope, the doctor started crying because it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery.
And thankfully I'm fine now. This was the closest I've been to facing death. I hope it's the closest I get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful, but purely intellectual concept. No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there.
And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be because death is very likely the single best invention of life. It's life's change agent. It cleared out the old to make way for the new.
Right now, the new is you. But some day, not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it's quite true. Your time is limited. So don't waste it living someone else's life.
Don't be trapped by dogma, which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own inner voice. Most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.
COOPER: Steve Jobs in 2005, speaking at Stanford. Not a university he graduated from. He didn't graduate from university. Sanjay, it's so poignant to hear him talk about death and to hear back then when he thought he was fine.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I listen to that and, you know, he had the operation, he had this tumor removed. He talked about the doctors literally crying when they saw the types of cells.
Because it was a variant, as he said, of pancreatic cancer. But even this variant, which is called a neurodeural tumor, made up these specific cells of the pancreas. It's still a very difficult tumor to treat.
COOPER: And the pancreas -- he admitted he didn't know --
GUPTA: -- which is something for him because he knows seemingly everything. But it makes a lot of enzymes. It makes the enzymes that help digest your food. Also makes a lot of hormones including insulin for example so people who are diabetics for example have problems with their pancreas not making enough insulin.
It also in part can explain why someone is so wasted, loses so much weight, because of that hormonal imbalance. There's no doubt there's a very aggressive form of pancreatic cancer. The numbers are terrible.
One-year survival rate for some of the more aggressive forms, 20 percent survival at one year. Just 4 percent at five years. So that's what it sounds like he thought he had. Again, he had a variant. Even with the variant, the numbers -- it's rare. So the numbers are harder to come by, but 24 percent to 50 percent they say, five-year survival. So eight years ago, he was diagnosed back in 2003.
COOPER: I mean, to think what he accomplished from the age of 21 to 56, 56 is what he was when he died. Thirty more years, who knows what he would have accomplished. Ali Velshi joins us now. It's hard to imagine what we have all lost because of his family's loss.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you say it well, Anderson, because this isn't the normal thing I talk about where a CEO has passed on and what's the structure of the company going to look like. We know that Apple will be fine.
"Fortune" did a piece on Tim Cook some time ago to indicate he's a great strength in the company and the creative value of Apple will continue. But there are very few companies in history you can associate the name with everything that that company represents.
There are very few companies in the world where you can say envelop your life the way Apple does. Some of us don't have every product that Apple makes. I'm not one of them. I think I have every product that they make, but you have something.
There was a time when people invented devices so that you can carry your entire CD collection around on one device. Others did it, but Apple is the one that made everybody want it. He had a way of take things that didn't exist and there wasn't even a need to be met and creating a way not to do it, but do it elegantly and in a way that everybody wanted.
COOPER: Andy Serwer, you were talking about how -- mean, he dropped out of college, went back to a community college to take a calligraphy course, right?
SERWER: Well, he was at Reed College in Oregon and he studied calligrapher there, Anderson. You know, before that, typing on a computer was just those block letters. He said to the programmers, we're going to make fonts. The programmer said, what's a font?
Now we all take that for that granted. Just another thing, but you know, I was struck watching that Stanford video, you were asking earlier, Anderson, what motivated him. We saw, in part, death motivated him.
As he got sicker and sicker and realized his time was becoming less and less, he worked more and more feverishly to produce more and more. And over the last couple of years, he really became very cognizant about passing his legacy on in terms of the company and then working on a biography with Walter Isaac, coming out very, very soon.
ANDERSON: We have to take a quick break. Our coverage continues. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Our breaking news tonight, Steve Jobs has died. Just 56 years old. In so many words, he was Apple. He and Steve Wozniak founded the company, but he wove it into the fabric of a generation. He created products that never were. Yet once they were - they seemed inevitable. That's not all he did. He'll be mourned and he'll be missed.
Let's turn it over now to "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" hosted by Wolf Blitzer. We'll be live again at 10 p.m. with more coverage, Wolf.