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The Worldwide Outrage Over Casey Anthony; Was the Jury Brainwashed?; The Gender Divide in the Casey Anthony Verdict; Octu-Chaos at the "Today" Show

Aired July 8, 2011 - 23:00   ET


A.J. HAMMER, HOST: Big news breaking tonight on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT - hating Casey Anthony. Tonight, the unbelievable brand-new worldwide outrage over Casey Anthony. Tonight, is Casey`s life in it danger? Plus, the dramatic claim today the Casey jury may have been brainwashed.

And the mind-boggling Casey gender gap. Why do more men than women seem to be on her side? Tonight, right here, the HLN all-stars, Dr. Drew Pinsky, Vinnie Politan, Jane Velez-Mitchell. And they`ll be answering your questions about Casey.

Inside the mind of Casey Anthony Judge Belvin Perry. What was he really thinking when the verdict was read?

Tonight, a judge who`s been in that hot seat, Anna Nicole Smith Judge Larry Seidlin, right here in a headline-making SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.

Absolute Octumom chaos, live on TV today.


NADYA SULEMAN, "OCTUMOM": There you go -


HAMMER: What was the Octumom thinking? We`ll ask Dr. Drew.

TV`s most provocative entertainment news show breaks news right now.


Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer, coming to you from New York City with big news breaking today - hating Casey Anthony.

Tonight, as Casey Anthony sits in a Florida jail waiting to be released next weekend, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you that the Casey hate factor across America is not even close to calming down, because today, there was a brand-new explosion of Casey haters going ballistic.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That (EXPLETIVE DELETED) needs to die the most painful (EXPLETIVE DELETED) horrible slow death ever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to know why this (EXPLETIVES DELETED) Casey (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Anthony pisses me the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off? I will (EXPLETIVE DELETED) explain it for you.


HAMMER: Holy Moly. There were startling claims today that the jury that acquitted Casey of charges that she killed her two-year-old daughter, Caylee, may have been brainwashed.

Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT takes it all to the HLN all-stars. In Orlando tonight, Jane Velez-Mitchell host of "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ- MITCHELL" every night at 7:00 p.m. Eastern on HLN. Also, in Orlando, Vinnie Politan, host of HLN`s "SPECIAL REPORT" at 5:00 p.m. Eastern every day, followed by "PRIME NEWS." And in Hollywood tonight, Dr. Drew Pinsky, host, of course, of "THE DR. DREW SHOW" weeknights, 9:00 p.m. Eastern on HLN.

All right, all-stars. Of course, we were all floored watching that explosion of Casey Anthony hatred today. People are just going nuts.

Now, Jane, you`ve been right there on the streets of Orlando every day this week, showing us right here on HLN throughout the day and night just how furious people were at the verdict.

Have we not seen anything yet? I mean, what is going to happen to these people who are outraged now when Casey Anthony actually goes free next Sunday?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Well, these people, especially here in Orlando - oh, my gosh, they are livid. You know why? Because they searched for little Caylee thinking she was alive.

I talked to people who said they took off from work. They lost money. They spent money to go through the woods searching for this precious child.

And when they found out that Casey Anthony knew all along that her child was dead, they were outraged and the sense of betrayal is not going to go away for a long time. This is anger that`s got legs.

HAMMER: Vinnie Politan, so many people feel justice has not been served in this case, and that is why we have so much outrage. Do you think we haven`t even seen the beginning of it yet compared to what we`ll see when she walks?

VINNIE POLITAN, HOST, "SPECIAL REPORT": Well, it`s going to be amplified and there`s going to be a countdown to that moment when she gets released next weekend. And I think there will be a lot of anticipation. I think there will be protesters.

And then, then there`s the rest of Casey`s life. You know, where does she show up? Wherever she shows up - it`s not just Florida. It`s not just central Florida. I mean, this is nationwide, and people know who she is, and they know the circumstances of the case. And I think that most people will not let her forget.

HAMMER: And think about what`s going on in the minds of these jurors tonight. These are the jurors who acquitted her. They were tasked with doing a job. They did the job they felt they had to do.

And now, because of their decision, Casey will be going free. The only juror who has spoken out so far made it clear during an interview with Terry Moran on ABC`s "Nightline" that her very own decision made her sick to her stomach, and other jurors felt the same. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were quite a few people who when we got back after the verdict was read were in tears.

TERRY MORAN, CORRESPONDENT, "NIGHTLINE": Why were you crying after you handed down a not-guilty verdict on murder?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty doesn`t mean innocent.

MORAN: How do you feel about that, that you may have let a woman who murdered her own daughter walk off that charge?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t feel good. It was a horrible decision to have to make. But I had to do it based on the law.


HAMMER: Yes. You heard it right there, a horrible decision to have to make. Dr. Drew, is there a good chance that this verdict is simply going to haunt these jurors for the rest of their lives?

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "DR. DREW": Well, certainly, interestingly, there`s a whole school of study right now looking at the effect that serving on a jury has on people, both it from the standpoint of looking at some of the gruesome images they have to look in a grisly case like this and from the standpoint of the responsibility that they have borne in either sending somebody away or letting somebody go.

But most of these jurors have been relatively - well, the ones we heard from at least - have been somewhat unapologetic about the decision they made based on what they were told.

In other words, the evidence presented to them, such as it was, left them no option. They only heard she was a good mom. Remember that. The rest of us - we`re hearing all the stories in the press about what she was really like.

HAMMER: Right.

PINSKY: They heard evidence about what a good mom Casey Anthony was. But by the same token, the connecting the dots of trying to put Casey at the scene for a cause of death - they couldn`t make that. They couldn`t do it. So based on the evidence, they did what they felt they had to do.

HAMMER: Yes, and as a result of that, they may very well, it seems to me a layman`s perspective, may be walking around now with a lot of guilt if they feel they had to, based on the law, let a guilty woman go free.

SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you, I think the worst maybe yet to come for her. Take a look at this. Florida now wants her to pay back $100,000 for the money that they spent investigating Caylee`s death.

She also faces a possible defamation suit connected to all of the lies she told police. Jane, Casey is completely broke. Obviously, she will be a pariah, I think, wherever she goes. Do you believe the worst is yet to come for her?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, she`s facing a whole bunch of money and legal problems. Zenaida Gonzales is suing her. Tim Miller from Equusearch has indicated that he might sue her to recoup the more than $100,000 his organization spent searching for little Caylee.

Then you`ve got the investigators, the actual law enforcement investigative unit that will sue her, at least try to collect money. And they`re going to have a hearing in August to determine how much money that`s going to be.

It could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. But then, on the positive side, for her anyway, she could score a big money deal.

But here`s the problem with it. Everybody says, "Oh, we`re going to buy her book?" First of all, a lot of people will boycott that. The second thing is that she`s a pathological liar, so why would we read anything to find the inside story from her when what we know about her is that she lies?

Everything you need to know about this case is in the public record. You could do a made-for-TV movie, you could do a book, just based on what was said during the trial.

HAMMER: Yes. And look, even if she is able to straighten out her money situation, if indeed the deals do happen, it is also possible that her life very much could be in danger at this point.

There were brand-new reports today that Casey Anthony is getting death threats and that Florida police may end p spending taxpayer dollars to protect her. You`ve got to watch what one of her had defense lawyers told "In Session" on our sister network, TruTV.


JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Are you concerned for her safety?

CHENEY MASON, CASEY ANTHONY`S LAWYER: Sure. Yes. Everybody around her knows you have to be concerned for her safety. There`s a lot of nuts out there who don`t believe in the Constitution of United States, who don`t believe in the jury system, and all you have to do is go downstairs on the sidewalk and you`ll see.


HAMMER: Yes. Vinnie, let me ask you about that. I mean, to me, responding with threats or violence, no matter who is involved, always seems completely irrational. But do you think Casey`s life truly could be in danger because of what`s happened here?

POLITAN: It could be. But there`s another aspect to the rest of her life as well. It`s carrying the weight of knowing what she did. At a minimum, what she did was allow her daughter to be tossed like garbage into the woods.

Because - Jose Baez said she was there when she died, didn`t call 911, so just the weight of that on her conscience for the rest of her life, much like with O.J. Simpson. I mean, he had the weight of that trial on his life. He became obsessed with watching trials on television, and we know where he ended up.


POLITAN: Casey Anthony, it`s going to be a tough life.

HAMMER: Yes. Some people, however, have said - and I`ve heard this a lot - there is no conscience involved there. Vinnie, Jane, Dr. Drew, I want you to all stay right where you are because I want you to weigh in on the Casey Anthony gender gap. This is fascinating to me. Why more men than women seem to be on Casey Anthony`s side.

But right now, let me turn it over to you for our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusive poll. "Casey Anthony: Is it OK for her to go Hollywood when she`s let out of jail?" I mean, let me know what you think about this. Yes, she was found not guilty of murder. Or no, that would be disgusting.

I think I know where this is going to go, but I want to hear it from you at You can E-mail us, too. is our E-mail address.

Coming up, the startling new comparisons between Casey Anthony and O.J. Simpson. Another explosive trial where so many people could not understand the verdict. CNN`s Larry King was live on the air the day O.J. was acquitted. Which acquittal shocked Larry more? He is right here with me, coming up next.

Inside the mind of Casey Anthony Judge Belvin Perry. So what was he really thinking when he read that verdict? Tonight, a judge who`s been in that hot seat. Anna Nicole Smith Judge Larry Seidlin, right here for a headline-making SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.

Wait until you see this - absolute Octumom chaos live on TV today.



SULEMAN: Jeremiah, Jeremiah, freeze. Freeze, Noah. No, no, no.


SULEMAN: Freeze, Noah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks so much for joining us.

SULEMAN: Sit down.


HAMMER: This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views. And now, brand-new star reactions to the Casey Anthony verdict, stars like Kim Kardashian fired up and speaking out tonight on Twitter about Casey.

TEXT: "I am truly sick over the Casey Anthony verdict. So if the courts don`t believe she is guilty, then who do they think killed this little baby?" @KimKardashian


DONNIE WAHLBERG, ACTOR: No verdict ever really surprises me anymore. You know, I suppose I`m surprised that all the experts just never seem to get it right. I`m probably just avoiding talking about the tragedy itself by talking about the verdict, being not a surprise.

But that`s the reality. It`s not a surprise. And you know, it`s - you know, it`s hard for everyone. It`s hard for everyone. And hopefully, whoever did it will pay one way or another.




LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": With us, on the phone now, is O.J. Simpson. How are you?

O.J. SIMPSON, ACCUSED OF MURDERING HIS EX-WIFE, NICOLE BROWN: I`m doing fine, and, one, I want to thank you a lot because so many of my friends have told me that you`ve been fair in hosting your show and bringing the points of view from both sides.


HAMMER: That was O.J. Simpson in 1995, 16 years ago, calling in to "LARRY KING LIVE" on CNN the day after a jury found O.J. not guilty of murdering Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. Tonight, like O.J., like Casey?

Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. And tonight, the Casey connection.

As people are still shaking their heads in disbelief over the Casey Anthony verdict, they can`t help but point out the startling similarities to the O.J. Simpson trial. As Robin S. wrote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT Facebook wall, "She will always be guilty as far as I`m concerned. O.J. number two."

And there is perhaps no one better to judge the comparison than the legendary Larry King. Larry was live on CNN the day O.J. Simpson was acquitted.

And Larry joining me from Hollywood. You look fantastic, Larry, and I must congratulate you right off the bat on the big news that you`re going to be receiving a lifetime achievement Emmy. Well deserved, my friend.

KING: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And by the say, I`m wearing this because our Harry Potter Special is on, on Sunday night at 8:00 worldwide. And this is a turn wool master (ph) shirt - that`s the clothiers of London.

So in your honor, A.J., no braces, a British shirt, a famous British clothier to salute my special, and I bring it to you. You like the color scheme?

HAMMER: It`s fantastic. It`s a very good look on you. We`re going to look at a bit of your Harry Potter special in just a moment.


HAMMER: But first, Larry, you know, amazing that it was over 15 years ago that O.J. was acquitted. And of course, right after the Casey Anthony trial was over and she was acquitted, people were reacting immediately.

And here`s what you tweeted, "I learned a long time ago to never prejudge a trial. Seems like everyone had found Casey Anthony guilty. Everyone except the jury!"

So, Larry, I`ve got to ask you. O.J.`s acquittal, Casey`s acquittal, which shocked you more?

KING: Well, I`ll tell you the truth. Since I never prejudge a trial, you`re surprised by both. All the evidence seemed to indicate that O.J. had done that - did that terrible crime.

And the evidence seemed to support - I don`t know what the crime was here because as one juror pointed out, murder was never proven in the Casey Anthony case. We know that a child died under poor circumstances, but we never connected a murder. In the O.J. case, there was a murder. Another big difference was O.J. was a hundred times more famous.


KING: The media made this girl famous. We didn`t make O.J. famous. O.J. was famous. I think both cases were prosecuted maybe poorly. Obviously, if a jury comes back this quickly - I thought when a jury goes back that fast, you`d think it`s going to be guilty.

Usually, that means open-and-shut. We`re going to turn it off. I think the jury here probably weighed the evidence pretty well. I know the public is upset, obviously.

I think the prosecution proved she was a lousy mother and maybe not the best of people to hang around with, and maybe, as her own lawyer called her, maybe a slut. But they didn`t connect her to a murder.

HAMMER: And Larry, moving forward, you know, it`s very difficult for O.J. to cash in as a result of how vilified he was after he was acquitted.

A lot of people are thinking that may be tough for Casey Anthony as well because of how strongly people feel about this. Do you think she`ll have success cashing in?

KING: If she wants to cash in, there will be somebody willing to pay a lot of money. There will be a tabloid - it would have been the tabloid that`s going out of business in Britain, if she would have given them the exclusive, if she would have admitted to things - remember, she didn`t testify.

HAMMER: Right.

KING: So there`s a lot of things she could have to say that we don`t know. In other words, nobody knows what really happened in that house. Nobody knows except the people there.


KING: And she`s one of the people. She could cash. Somebody will pay her big money to hear her story.

HAMMER: It`s going to be very interesting to see if that happens. I, of course, would love to see you get the chance to interview her.

And I appreciate your incredible insight, Larry. Can`t wait to see your special on CNN this Sunday night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, all about the eighth and final "Harry Potter" movie.

You`re taking us behind the scenes of the making of the movie. You`ve got amazing interviews with the "Potter" stars Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson. I want to look at what Daniel told you about his future. Let`s roll that.


KING: Do you want family someday?

DANIEL RADCLIFFE, ACTOR: Oh, god, yes. Absolutely. I`m one of the - it`s very strange. I`m one of the broodiest young men you will ever meet. I think also because I spent so much time around adults and I saw them all have kids.

KING: You want children.

RADCLIFFE: Oh, god, yes. Absolutely. Not just now. I want kids and I want lots. I absolutely do. I`ve seen how happy fatherhood has made some of my best friends and it`s just - you know, and I love kids as well. So, yes, I definitely want that.

KING: But you need to meet someone else in order to have -

RADCLIFFE: I need to get someone who`s willing first, yes.

KING: Share a life with you.

RADCLIFFE: Yes. Yes, I mean, you know, I`ve got a girlfriend at the moment who I am very much in love with. So you know, we`ll see where that goes.


HAMMER: I can`t wait to see this. Make sure you watch a "Larry King Special," "Harry Potter: The Final Chapter," Sunday, July 10th, 8:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

KING: A.J. -

HAMMER: The great Larry King. Thanks for coming on, my friend. Always great to see you.

KING: A.J., A.J., one quick thing. Viewers, fans could win a pair of suspenders signed by me and Daniel Radcliffe. Go to my Facebook to find out more. OK?

HAMMER: Thanks, Larry. All right then.

KING: Thanks, A.J.

HAMMER: As we move on, coming up, much more of our continuing SHOWBIZ Casey watch coverage. Tonight, the mind-boggling Casey Anthony gender gap. Why do more men than women seem to be on her side?

Plus, dramatic new claims tonight. Could the Casey Anthony jury have been brainwashed? Tonight, the HLN all-star weigh in on that. Vinnie Politan, Jane Velez-Mitchell, Dr. Drew, all right here answering your Casey Anthony questions. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views.

And now, more of Hollywood`s at the Casey Anthony verdict. Check out what Jessica Alba and Sharon Osbourne tweeted.

TEXT: "Following the Casey Anthony trial was nauseating, but the verdict is revolting." @JessicaAlba

"Casey Anthony not guilty? It`s a disgrace. She`ll probably get her own reality show now." @MrsSOsbourne


HAMMER: A bizarre Casey Anthony shocker. Just hours after Casey learned that she will leave jail next week, lightning struck a tree next to a memorial in honor of little Caylee Anthony. Now, no one saw the lightning, but visitors to the site don`t think it was just a coincidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe that`s a sign that somebody else is looking out over this case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right. Yes. Maybe justice wasn`t really served.


HAMMER: Wild. Well, tonight, Linda Hogan`s stunning connection to the Casey Anthony trial. Back in 2008, Linda, who is the ex-wife of wrestling great, Hulk Hogan, was with her son, Nick, right there at the same Pinellas County courthouse where the Casey Anthony jury was picked.

Nick was sentenced to eight months in jail for reckless driving. Listen to what Linda just told me about the Casey verdict in her SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.


LINDA HOGAN, EX-WIFE OF HULK HOGAN: My reaction, you know, at first, was that she just basically - in America, you can get away with murder. You know, the jury did what they had to do, but bottom line is, there really is just a weak link in the justice system here.

I mean, the tape and everything didn`t get around that kid`s mouth accidentally. Somebody did that, and the only thing is, is that it benefited her.

I just feel like, as a parent, my son was in a tragic accident and myself and my husband had to come to the forefront of that situation and we were held accountable and responsible.

I don`t understand why that`s any different. How she got away with that, I`ll just never know. But you know, she`s going to have a hefty price to pay for her freedom as she steps out into the public life.

HAMMER (on camera): It sounds like you were among the millions around the world who were following this very closely. Were you?

L. HOGAN: Yes, I was.

HAMMER: And why? What was the particular thing about this case that drew you in and got you addicted to it as so many people became?

L. HOGAN: Well, being from that area, obviously, you know. And secondly being a mother, and having heard so many other cases like that that have unfolded and seeing the parents get their just punishment.

But in this situation, it just seemed like it was spiraling out of control, her bringing her parents in. And you know, it just confused the jury. It confused the judge. Nobody was able to - you know, she had good alibis. Her parents were her alibis, basically.


HAMMER: And everybody was fascinated. You`ve got to check out Linda Hogan`s fascinating new book. This is called, "Wrestling the Hulk: My Life Against the Ropes." It`s out right now.

And now, the SHOWBIZ lineup - here`s what`s coming up on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Inside the mind of Casey Anthony Judge Belvin Perry. What was he really thinking when he read the verdict? Tonight, a judge who`s been in that hot seat, Anna Nicole Judge Larry Seidlin right here in a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.

Absolute Octumom chaos live on TV today.


SULEMAN: Jeremiah, Jeremiah, freeze. Freeze, Noah. No, no, no.


SULEMAN: Freeze, Noah.


HAMMER: What was the Octumom thinking? We will ask HLN`s Dr. Drew. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on the HLN news and views.

And now, more of Hollywood`s outrage over the Casey Anthony verdict. Kathy Griffin and Sophia Bush took to Twitter.

TEXT: "Wow. OK. Now, this case has my attention. Not guilty? Really? I just assumed." @KathyGriffin

"I`ve been trying to gather my thoughts on the Casey Anthony trial all day. But honestly, I just can`t. I literally have no words. @SophiaBush


HAMMER: Big news breaking tonight on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, the Casey Anthony gender gap. Why more men than women seem to be on Casey Anthony`s side. Plus, the dramatic claim tonight that the Casey jury may have been brainwashed?

Tonight, right here, the HLN all-stars, Vinnie Politan, Jane Velez- Mitchell, Dr. Drew Pinsky, answering your questions about Casey.

The remarkable link between Casey Anthony and the Anna Nicole Smith trial. What was Judge Belvin Perry thinking when he read the verdict? Tonight, a judge who`s been in that hot seat, Anna Nicole Smith judge Larry Seidlin right here in a headline-making SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.

ANNOUNCER: TV`s most provocative entertainment news show continues right now.

HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It`s 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer coming to you from New York City with big news breaking - the Casey Anthony gender gap.

There were remarkable revelations today about just how differently women and men feel about Casey Anthony beating the rap on charges she killed her two-year-old daughter, Caylee.

And there was a disturbing claim today that maybe, just maybe, the jury that acquitted her was brainwashed. Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT takes it all to the HLN all-stars.

In Orlando tonight, Jane Velez-Mitchell host of "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL" every night at 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on HLN. Also in Orlando tonight, Vinnie Politan, host of HLN`s "SPECIAL REPORT," that`s at 5:00 p.m. Eastern every day, followed by "PRIME NEWS." In Hollywood tonight, Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of "The Dr. Drew Show" every night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on HLN.

And we`re going to get to the odd-sounding brainwashing claim in just a moment. You`ve got to hear that. But first, we`ve got to talk about one of the most fascinating things we have all seen since all of those not- guilties in court the other day.

There`s a brand-new "USA Today"/Gallup poll released today which shows this huge gender gap in the way men and women are reacting to the case.

Look at this. When asked if they were angry about the Casey Anthony verdict, 27 percent of women said they were angry; only nine percent of men said they were angry.

And the same dramatic poll reveals many more women than men, 28 percent to 11 percent, believe that Casey Anthony definitely murdered Caylee.

Dr. Drew, explain this to us. Why the great divide here between men and women?

PINSKY: First of all, I want to say, all you have to do is watch a little bit of the footage and it becomes immediately obvious that women are primarily those preoccupied with this case.

I mean, they have a lot of energy about it. And I think it has something to do with probably two issues. One is, this goes at one of the most sacred features of what it is to be a woman, which is motherhood and the ability of that mother to protect the child.

This is a woman who at least - Casey Anthony, who is at least neglectful and was behaving in ways that were just outlandish and offensive to, not just everybody, but especially women. That`s number one.

Then, number two, we seem to carry a very special - maybe hatred is too strong of a word, but a certain special energy for women that - let`s say use their sexuality in ways that we find problematic.

And that`s what seemed like was going on here in the face of her having lost a child. Those two things together I think really create a powerful dynamic for women and create the rage we`re seeing.

HAMMER: Yes. You know, great perspective there. And Jane Velez- Mitchell, you`ve been right there on the ground in Orlando. And I know you`ve been speaking with some women who are so angry that Casey Anthony is about to walk out of jail a week from Sunday. I want to take a look at what one of them told you. Let`s roll that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have a justice for Caylee sign. Why did you come down here today?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be a voice for Caylee. I`m outraged at the verdict. I believe in our justice system, but this time, I believe it failed us.


HAMMER: I want your perspective based on what you`ve seen right there in Orlando. How do you explain how why so many more men than women don`t believe Casey killed Caylee and why so many more women are so much angrier at this verdict?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think Dr. Drew touched on it. She is - let`s call it like it is - a hot babe. And there is a sense maybe that she got away with it because of her looks, that had somebody else been sitting in that defendant`s chair who was frumpy and maybe old or from a different background, they wouldn`t have been treated in the same way that she was treated.

And I think the defense also did something very clever. They put her table directly across from the jury. Now, we have seen and I talked to the roommate of her ex-boyfriend, says she`s a flirt. She`s coquettish. She knows how to bat her eyes. And all of that has an impact.

There were men on the jury. There`s five guys. And 90 percent of communication is nonverbal. You do the math.

HAMMER: Well, yes. So we`re reasonably understanding the gender gap. I think we have some good insight into that. But we still don`t understand acquittal decision.

And today, we got a strange new possible explanation for why the jury acquitted Casey Anthony. Could it be perhaps that they felt brainwashed?

Yes, I said "brainwashed." Now, we`ve seen the only juror to speak so far tell ABC`s "Nightline" what they were thinking. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had a lot of discussions. We started to look through stuff. But none of it - how did she die? If you`re going to charge somebody with murder, don`t you have to know how they killed someone or why they might have killed someone or have something - when, where, why, how? They are important questions that were not answered.


HAMMER: And today, former O.J. Simpson prosecutor, Marcia Clark, wrote on "" that she thinks the sequester jury members brainwashed each other into a "group think," as she calls it, that kept them from questioning some of the holes in Casey`s defense.

Here`s what she writes, "When jurors are forced to spend day and night with each other apart from their families and friends, they become a tribe unto themselves."

Vinnie, let me ask you about that. As a former prosecutor, have you ever heard of members of a sequestered jury brainwashing each other?

POLITAN: No, I`ve never had a sequestered jury as a trial attorney, but no. What it is - it`s about reasonable doubt. It`s the way they interpret it.

You heard what this juror said. She said, "You can`t convict someone of murder if you don`t know exactly how they died." Yes, you can and they are allowed to, but they didn`t understand that concept.

My goodness, we don`t know how Laci Peterson died. Scott Peterson was convicted, so their interpretation of reasonable doubt - they didn`t quite understand it or they interpreted it much more narrowly than the law permits them to interpret it.

HAMMER: Oh, I think the question about this - let me just move on to this, Dr. Drew because we have so many questions that have been piling up today. I think these are going to be coming in for months.

We asked our Facebook fans today what they wanted to ask our HLN all- stars, you, guys, as you`ve been covering this trial like nobody else.

I want to get to a couple quickly. Kacee G. asking our all-stars about this, "How long do you think she will last in the real world?" Jane, let me send that off to you. How long?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all, where is she going to go? I think she will ultimately end up in Los Angeles, the home of reality television, where there are a lot of people who - a lot of bad actors in Los Angeles, along with some very good ones.

But I think that`s a more free-wheeling place or maybe Las Vegas. And she might get her own reality show. Who knows what`s going to happen to her? But as Vinnie said, she`s going to have to live with herself.

And I think she`ll be shunned by the vast majority of people and the people who will accept her are going to be a sort of type of tier of person that you really don`t want to hang out with.

HAMMER: Yes. And people who will be shunned themselves. We`ve got another one on Facebook here, all about Dr. Drew`s interview with Casey`s ex-fiance, Jesse Grund. Jesse told Dr. Drew that Casey grew up in a super- critical and unsupportive environment with her parents.

Here`s what Joan C. posted on our Facebook wall, "I would like to ask Dr. Drew, did his interview with Jesse Grund make him have any different views on the whole family?" Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: No. It actually confirmed things I suspected were already the case. It sort of clarified some things. I learned - we didn`t hear this part, but she had a seizure disorder, for instance.

She used a lot of alcohol, but she probably was not an alcoholic. And indeed, that home environment was emotionally abusive. And you have to speculate there had to have been some confluence of factors that came to bear to create a Casey Anthony.

Some of it is biologic and some is genetic, but some of it is that environment.

HAMMER: And no question about it. These questions will keep on coming for months, maybe years. Vinnie, Jane, thank you very much.

And Dr. Drew, I want you to stay right there because we`re going to shift gears and I want to ask you about this live TV mob scene involving another notorious mom, the Octumom.

Nadya Suleman - her kids just went crazy this morning on the "Today" show. You`ve got to see this.


SULEMAN: Jeremiah, Jeremiah, freeze! Freeze, Noah! No, no, no.


SULEMAN: Freeze, Noah. Freeze. Sit down right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks so much for joining us.


HAMMER: Do you get the feeling that`s kind of a normal day in the Suleman household? Dr. Drew, who is about to have his own interview with the Octumom, is going to give his take on this mob scene, coming up.

As we move on, the public was absolutely outraged, of course, when the Casey Anthony verdict was read. But what was the judge thinking? Tonight, inside the mind of Judge Belvin Perry from another judge who`s been in that hot seat.

Anna Nicole Smith Judge Larry Seidlin, right here for a headline- making SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. That is next. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT HLN news and views.

And now, more of Hollywood`s outrage over the Casey Anthony verdict. Check out what Mandy Moore just tweeted and what "Zoo Keeper" star, Leslie Bibb told SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

TEXT: "I`m from Orlando and have been hooked on the trial the last few weeks. The defense team was abysmal! This is shocking! Poor, poor Caylee." @TheMandyMoore


LESLIE BIBB, ACTRESS: The verdict I find really sad. Who knows if she did it or not? But I do know that the evidence didn`t seem like it. All was handled perfectly. It just seemed like, at the end of the day, the little girl is gone and nobody knows what happened.




JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, NINTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT COURT, ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Have you reached a verdict? Would you hand the verdict form to the court clerk, please?


HAMMER: Look at Judge Perry`s face as he read the jury`s verdict - Casey Anthony, not guilty of murder. What was going through his mind? Was he angry, disappointed, maybe relieved? Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT goes inside the mind of Judge Perry.

Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT brings you someone who can definitely help us understand what was going on inside of mind of Judge Perry, someone who knows what it is like to sit in the hot seat Judge Perry sat in with TV cameras on you the whole time.

Joining me now in Orlando for a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview, Judge Larry Seidlin, who, of course, presided over the televised battle for custody of Anna Nicole Smith`s baby. It`s good to see you, my friend.


HAMMER: So listen, we all know you became famous during the Anna Nicole Smith trial as the folksy, emotional judge who really cared so much about the case. We remember when you cried. In fact, let`s take a look at one of your many memorable moments in that case.


SEIDLIN: I have suffered with this. I struggled with this. I have shed tears for your little girl and your grandchild. But I hope - because I`ll tell you something. In the old days I`d be banging some heads together, I mean it.


HAMMER: Now, Judge Seidlin, obviously, your case was not a jury trial. But how hard do you think it was for Judge Perry to sit there on that bench and keep his poker face while the entire world was watching his every movement?

SEIDLIN: He kept his quiet and as silent as a sphinx on the Nile. I believe and I would be entering his mental process - but for you, A.J., I`ll do it.

I believe he was sick to his stomach with the result of the jury. And I believe it was reflected in his sentence toward Casey in the four misdemeanors she was facing.

She was convicted of four misdemeanors. And he sentenced her one year maximum in each misdemeanor and he made it consecutive time, not concurrent. Most of the time, we would add it all together and make it one year. But here, he whacked her for a year for each misdemeanor.

HAMMER: So you think he was sort of acting it out in that way. Let`s bring in someone else who can help us understand perhaps what may have been going on in the mind of Judge Belvin Perry during the Casey Anthony trial.

Judge Penny Brown Reynolds joins us now from Atlanta. She`s the host of TV`s "Family Court with Judge Penny." So Judge Penny, what do you think was going through Judge Perry`s mind?

When he first read Casey Anthony`s not guilty verdict, all eyes were on him at that time. It has to have been an amazing amount of pressure.

JUDGE PENNY BROWN REYNOLDS, HOST, "FAMILY COURT WITH JUDGE PENNY": Great deal of pressure. I agree with my colleague. But I think what happened more than anything is that he wanted to have a poker face.

He wanted that verdict to be read without you being able to tell. How many times have we been able to get the verdict and make sure that there`s nothing in our demeanor and our facial expressions?

His number one goal was that, after everything is said and done, you couldn`t look back and feel that the judge engendered himself in the process. And for that, I give him an A-plus. I think Judge Perry, under enormous scrutiny, did an exceptional job.

HAMMER: Yes. I mean, I can`t even imagine - you guys have been there before. I can`t imagine what that`s like and what a skill it truly is. In fact, let`s watch that pivotal moment now when with judge Perry told Casey Anthony that she is not guilty of murder in the first degree. Roll that.


PERRY: Casey Marie Anthony, a jury of your peers, having found you not guilty as to the charge contained in count one of the indictment, murder in the first degree, at this time I will adjudge you to be not guilty.


HAMMER: All right, Judge Seidlin, you know, you said that you feel that Judge Perry probably felt sick to his stomach about that verdict. Let`s suppose for a moment that this was a bench trial and there was no jury deciding Casey Anthony`s innocence or guilt.

I`m putting you on the spot here. Do you think Judge Perry would have possibly found her guilty? Or not guilty?

SEIDLIN: Well, here`s the problem. Most of the judges that serve in the criminal bench around the country are former prosecutors as some of the talking heads that you have on the different TV stations are former prosecutors.

And unfortunately, those individuals gave the public at large the wrong impression. They kept saying she`s going to be found guilty of murder one. I believe I was the only significant voice in this nation that said she was going to walk.

The state attorney never proved motive and never proved a method of how she was killed. If it was a non-jury trial, I believe there was a lot of holes in the balloon.

There were a lot of missing links to the death of Caylee and linking her to the defendant. But it`s too much of a Russian roulette. An attorney will never waive a jury and have a judge trial.

They`d rather have their faith and trust placed in the hands of the jury. They feel judges have been around too long. Many of us may be too cynical, may look beyond what the evidence was presented. And that`s why they wanted a jury trial.

HAMMER: Judge Penny, let me ask you, if it was judge Perry`s to call, what do you think he would have done?

REYNOLDS: Well, I believe that he could have been fair. I know that he`s a former prosecutor, as I`m a former prosecutor. But once you`re on that bench, I think that we could be fair.

I think overwhelmingly that there were gaps in the evidence. I think that the state ultimately did not prove its case. And when I was on this show I said that it could have been 50/50, because I do agree with the fact that nothing, particularly with the jury, is a slam dunk.

But I believe that there was enough. If he wanted to find her guilty, of maybe felony murder, then certainly that could have taken place.

I think when they raised the bar and made it first degree murder, set that standard up too high, when you`re dealing with people like the jury and you`re not answering questions of who, what, where, and you`re looking for reasonable doubt, we`re trained to know how to evaluate reasonable doubt.

That means that there may still be doubt, but is it beyond a reasonable doubt? And laypeople just do not assess that.

HAMMER: Judge Penny, I`ve got to jump and end it there. But really interesting perspective from two people who have been there. I really appreciate it. Judge Seidlin, Judge Penny Brown Reynolds, thank you so much.

All right. We move on tonight to octu-chaos. The Octumom taking her octuplets on live television. And here`s what happened.


HAMMER: Jeremiah, Jeremiah, freeze. Freeze, Noah.



HAMMER: Whose idea was this? Was Octumom just out of her mind to go on TV with all those kids? We ask HLN`s own Dr. Drew, next. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views.

Now, more of Hollywood`s outrage over the Casey Anthony verdict. Holly Robinson Peete and John Rich share their thoughts on Twitter.

TEXT: "I am numb, but like I said on @TheTalk_CBS the wheels of justice have turned. #RestWithAngelsCayleeMarie #DiedInVain #CaseyAnthonyVerdict" @HollyRPeete

"Very on Casey Anthony thoughts. How do you `party` for a month while your kid is missing? So sad for the little girl." @JohnRich



SULEMAN: Jeremiah, Jeremiah, freeze. Freeze, Noah.


SULEMAN: Freeze, Noah. Freeze. Sit down right now. Sit down. Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much for joining us here today.


HAMMER: Ah, yes. Just another day in the life of Octumom. All heck breaking loose there on the NBC "Today" show set today. The Octumom swears she can handle her 14 kids.

Are you buying it? That`s a lot of babies. How in the world is the Octumom doing it? She`s got 14 kids, no job, no nanny and she says, no problem.

Joining me right now from Hollywood, HLN`s own Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of "THE DR. DREW SHOW" every weeknight 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on HLN.

All right, Dr. Drew. Nadya Suleman swears she`s got it all under control. She can handle the kids. She`s even thinking about heading back to school. Are you buying it?

PINSKY: Well, A.J., I`ve got to tell you something. I don`t know if you were aware of this or not, but I am the father of triplets.


PINSKY: And if you would have put my three kids on the air at that age, that is precisely the scene that would have broken out.

As a multiple parent, you`re in a zone defense all the time. Things are always out of control. And the only thing that keeps you from losing your mind or wanting to harm your kids or your spouse or you jump off a building is getting help.


PINSKY: You get all the help you can, and that was just with three. She has 14 and she has the eight there. Did you see one of the children, the 10-year-old - you notice there`s a younger child - older child running around there.

That child has to be parentalized, just to survive. The child there on the right, across from Ann Curry. That`s a 10-year-old who you see doing the parenting with mom, which again is a survival mode.

It`s, OK, the family is going to survive. But that`s not good for that 10-year-old to parentalize a child like that. And I bet the other older children have to be parentalized as well to watch after these eight. And how can you go to school? She talked about working out a lot with all these kids.


PINSKY: With three, we couldn`t get away to walk around the block. I don`t understand how she can find - and who is at home when she`s out working out if she doesn`t have any help? How does that work?

HAMMER: I don`t know. Octumom though says the kids were acting up on the "Today" show, Dr. Drew, because they didn`t get a lot of sleep the night before. Watch this.


SULEMAN: Oh, by the way, they had two hours of sleep so this is the behavior for two hours of sleep. They were jumping up and - this is their first time traveling.


ANN CURRY, CO-HOST, THE "TODAY" SHOW: This is normal behavior, honestly, for 2 1/2-year-olds.

SULEMAN: No it`s not. No. At home - no, no, no. These are incredibly behaved children.


HAMMER: And I get that they`re just being kids, Dr. Drew. But quickly, are you concerned here?

PINSKY: Yes. Well, of course, I`m concerned. Listen, my final take away from this was that she`s doing a remarkably good job. I have to tell you that it`s clear she`s doing her job.

It`s clear she`s doing a great job as a mom. But it`s not - what I heard her claiming just didn`t pass the sniff test. As a multiple parent, she must have some more help, even if it`s just when she goes away and works out.

So yes, Nadya, well done. You`re surviving this. God bless you. I hope you make it. These kids are beautiful. But let`s be real honest about what`s really going on in the household. How do you get by day to day? I don`t understand.

HAMMER: Dr. Drew, I can`t wait to see your interview with the Octumom in the coming weeks. And Dr. Drew, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Got to leave it there.

That is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. Remember, you can catch SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusively Monday through Friday at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on HLN.