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Answers in Air France Flight 447 Investigation. Simulating a Stall. Former US Transportation Inspector Weighs In. IMF Leadership Election. G- 8 Pledges $20 Billion to Egypt and Tunisia. Greek Debt Crisis and the Euro. Fighting Exploitation in Tourism

Aired May 27, 2011 - 14:00:00   ET


RICHARD QUEST, HOST: Air France 447. We know now the jet stalled and plunged to the ocean in three and a half minutes.

The IMF candidate Agustin Carstens tonight tells me why he should replace Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

And FIFA opens its ethics investigation into its president, Sepp Blatter.

It may be Friday. I'm Richard Quest, and I still mean business.

Good evening. Two years on, and now we have detailed pictures of the terrible, terrible moments in the final hours of flight 447, the Air France flight, as it fell out of the sky.

The flight recorder salvaged from the ocean has given us a minute-by-minute account of what happened onboard on the plane that killed all 228 people onboard. Come and join me at the touchscreen, and I will show you what we're talking about.

The A-330, obviously, didn't have the landing gear down in those final moments of flight. It was at 35,000 feet when it suddenly flew into some very cold air, and that created a problem for the pitot tubes at the front, which in turn meant the speed sensors were no longer working.

The autopilot disengaged, the auto throttle disengaged, and the pilots acknowledged that they no longer had certain crucial indicators.

But the plane continued to climb, and started to climb from 35 up towards 37,000 feet. And in doing so, at the same time, the speed of the aircraft dropped dramatically, so much so that the wing itself stalled.

They managed to recover from the initial part of the stall, pulled the nose down, and then, the real crisis happened. Just as the captain came back onto the flight deck, having been called back from his rest break.

The pilot flying raised the nose of the aircraft even more, and the angle of attack on the wing went up to some 40 percent, with a pitch of 16 percent.

There was only one thing that was now going to happen to this plane, and by surely, it did. It literally fell out of the sky. It went into a full stall and literally it fell down at the most phenomenally frightening rate of descent.

In fact, the rate of descent, by the time it hits the water, was 11,000 feet per second. It took 3 minutes, 30 seconds for it to make that terrifying fall.

And what we still don't know, and what we still don't understand is why throughout this entire incident, three and a half minutes, the pilot continued to keep the nose of the aircraft in the sky, or in the -- lifted up. Conventional wisdom is, in those situations, the nose comes down, to try and recover from the stall.

So, we wanted to understand the theory behind what happened to the aircraft, and we went to use a flight simulator here in London.

Now, it's a Boeing 737 simulator so, obviously, it's not the same as the 330 in some significant ways. Obviously smaller, it has a yoke instead of a side stick.

But as the captain makes clear what, in this particular incident, this happened under the principles of flight. And the simulator instructor, James Corbett, a pilot with five years flying experience, showed us what happens when you pull back when, perhaps, you should push forward.



QUEST: OK. So, please, take it away.

CORBETT: OK. OK, so, we're at 35,000 feet and the nose is coming up, here. If we reduce all of our power.

QUEST: So, we go to the speed goes down to about -- the speed is coming of quite quickly.


QUEST: And the speed has to come down to about -- now, at this point, what's happening?

CORBETT: At this point, what's happening is the plane's climbing, and the red ink, the red bar here, up to about 100 knots indicates that we're in an under-speed stall situation. Now, where the speed is so low, the nose now begins to drop because the plane can't maintain any left.

And what happened is, we're now in a 7,000 feet-per-minute descent. Now, a 10,000 feet-per-minute --

QUEST: Look at -- hold it at 10,000 -- so stall the plane, the plane is now stalled.

CORBETT: The plane is now stalled.

QUEST: So, what did this captain pilot do? What did this pilot do?

CORBETT: He brought the nose up.

QUEST: Show me what would happen.

CORBETT: And what happens then is the plane will just re-stall, back down, it's already stalling again, and we're now doing 10,000 feet-a-minute back down to the ground.

The nose is going up in the air and, essentially, what happens now is the plane now drops and falls to the ground.

QUEST: And what's conventional wisdom for -- in a stall situation, in order to rescue this?

CORBETT: It's to tip the nose back down towards the ground, apply full power, and climb back out.

QUEST: Show me.


Apparently, we're upside down, so apply full power. Put -- press the nose back down. Air speed increases, and we're no longer in danger. Drop the nose a bit more, let the air speed increase. And there we go, we're now flying back. Bring the nose back up slowly. And we're now flying along level flight, accelerating away.

QUEST: What struck me, from reading these findings of fact is that there was a lot of height to play with.


QUEST: Wasn't there?

CORBETT: Yes, that's right. With 35,000 feet, you know, it's 6 miles up or so. So, there's plenty of time to recover. Assuming that the instruments are working as they should, of course. If you don't know what speed our altitude you're at, then -- and you're in a fog or a cloud, then it's very difficult to know exactly where you are or what's actually happening.

QUEST (voice-over): It is one thing to do this in the comfort of a simulator. Quite another when it happens for real. Our simulator trainer cautions against reading too much into these early findings.

CORBETT: We need to remember that we don't know what the actual weather conditions were exactly, what they could see out the windows, what they could see on their instruments. So, for us to replicate it in here, where we can see everything, it's all very easy for us to recover. But we don't know what the actual conditions were in the aircraft at the time.


QUEST: Now, obviously again, I mentioned a moment ago, of course, it was 10,000 feet a minute that the plane was falling. Joining me from South Caroline, the former inspector general of the United States Transportation Department, Mary Schiavo. She'd worked as an attorney bringing cases in this field.

Mary, I mean, I've read your views and, basically, you still believe that there was a failure or some sort of failure perhaps beyond the lack of speed indication.

MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, US DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: I do, because the recovery procedures are so simple.

When the plane was already at 35,000 and going up to 38,000 feet, very near the ceiling on this aircraft, and the speed would have slowed down from this flight condition whether or not there was weather, and then, it encountered weather.

And the most basic response of any pilot, whether you're a private pilot through commercial even through airline transporters, when you're in a stall condition, and we know they would have those stall warnings, regardless of what other instruments they had lost, is to put the nose down, power, and when you can, level and fly out.

And because they didn't do this most basic procedure, I have to wonder what else was going on.

They also had full pitch trim, nose up, which means not only were they using the controller to control plane, they had trimmed the plane to make that nose as high up as it could go. And that didn't seem to respond to the brief period when they put the nose down.

So, my only thing is it's just so counter-intuitive, there has to be something else wrong. I don't believe a pilot would have done this.

QUEST: Right. Because if it is as -- as straightforward as, perhaps, one's suggesting, it is incredible, isn't it?

SCHIAVO: Yes, it is. It is really incredible. Now, I've worked other similar crashes. For example, I've worked a couple runaway trims where the plane was trimmed by itself, full nose up. But here we know the pilots were putting in additional nose-up commands.

QUEST: So --

SCHIAVO: And then, I've worked other planes -- crashes, where the pitot tubes froze over and they did not good -- get good readings off their pitot tubes, but in that case, they had forgotten to turn on the defrost --


SCHIAVO: -- on the heat -- on the tubes, and they didn't know what they were encountering.

QUEST: All right. I suppose what this is going to come down to, ultimately, is really, Airbus is already saying that they recognize these results. But clearly, the blame is shifting to the airline and the crew.

But you have always been -- I'm not being unfair when I say, you've always been slightly skeptical of the high-level of automation and fly-by-wire computer orientation of the Airbus.

SCHIAVO: Well, I wouldn't say highly skeptical, but I do believe in that the pilot should be able to control their aircraft at -- as in here, when things start going wrong.

And with this Airbus, it's a wonderful plane, and the black boxes, they aren't fully -- obviously, they haven't analyzed them, and these are some of the most modern ones out there. There are hundreds of parameters for them to look at.

But what happens is systems start shutting down, and what I will want to hear is that all of these commands were intentional commands. That the pilots really did trim it full nose up for the horizontal stabilizer at its full 13 degrees and that they pulled back and that they commanded the plane --

QUEST: All right.

SCHIAVO: -- to go. If that's the case, yes, there's -- sadly, there's no other conclusion that they did it intentionally. But I've had other crashes where it looked like the pilots did it, but the plane had done it because there was a malfunction. So --


SCHIAVO: -- I'm going to hope that it's just not a horrible case of flying.

QUEST: I could talk for much more on this. Unfortunately, we are out of time. Mary, we'll talk again about this one. Many thanks, indeed. Always good to hear Mary's views on these important issues.

When we come back in a moment, the tourism industry is working to stop the exploitation of children. Our Freedom Project on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, it continues --


QUEST: -- after the break.


QUEST: All this week, we have been talking about who will be the next leader of the IMF after the resignation of Dominique Strauss -- excuse me - - Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

We've already heard earlier in the week from Christine Lagarde, who is the finance minister of France. Her principal contender at the moment in competition comes from the governor of Mexico's Central Bank, who's hoping he has the qualities that the IMF board is seeking.

Agustin Carstens has gained credibility, he's held down inflation, and that's in America's second-biggest economy. Even held interest rates at its latest meeting for many successive months. Governor Carstens, very pleased, joins me, now.

Mr. Governor, just as much as Christine Lagarde shouldn't get the job because she's a European, you shouldn't get the job just because you're from an emerging market, should you?

AGUSTIN CARSTENS, GOVERNOR, BANCO DE MEXICO: Well, I think that nationality, at the end of the day, shouldn't play a role in this. I think what we all want is a merit-based process where the best possible person gets the job. And I think that's why I am in this process.

QUEST: Well, what would you say is your principle argument for why you should be the IMF managing director?

CARSTENS: I would --


CARSTENS: -- my characteristics. One --


CARSTENS: -- very wide policy-making career and record, having been minister of finance of Mexico, Central Bank governor, as I am right now. And I also have the -- I was also the deputy managing director from the Fund.

In addition, I know the Fund from all possible angles. I was executive board member, I was also deputy managing director, so I was part of the management of the Fund. And following the relationship of the Fund with 80 countries, and I also know the Fund from the point of view of the authorities.

So, I have a complete 360 degree knowledge of the institution.

QUEST: OK. But so far, the other emerging markets, particularly Brazil, Russia, China, and India, the BRICs, they say that somebody else should get it, not a European. But don't you need them to openly come out and support you to help rally even more support?

CARSTENS: Well, that's precisely what I'm looking for. Now, you have to take into account that the process will go until the end of June. And if we want an open, merit-based process, the countries, before making up their minds, they need to see who are the candidates and know them better.

The process of having additional candidates is open until the 10th of June, so many countries believe that it's premature to emit an opinion until they know who are all the candidates. And that's what you would expect in a merit-based process.

QUEST: OK, but can you get the support of the United States, do you think? Or do you fear that they'll be dragooned behind Christine Lagarde?

CARSTENS: Well, so far, I am encouraged by the reception they have had on my candidacy. Secretary Geithner had said that I'm a credible candidate, and they have said that the process should be open, transparent, and merit- based. So, at this stage, that's good news for me.

Now, of course, the US will make up its mind later on, and they need to weigh merit and so on. But so far, I think that the initial statements by the US authorities is what I would expect based on a merit-based process.

QUEST: Nobody likes to think about what will happen if they don't win, but if you don't get the top job, would you be a candidate for the second job, the deputy, the first deputy, which is normally an American? So, even breaking -- that would still be breaking the tradition even if it was the second job.

CARSTENS: Well, I think under those circumstances, I would have to weigh where I'm more useful, here in my country or at the deputy level at the Fund. I have already been at the deputy level, so probably I'd rather stay in my country helping with the challenges we face here.

QUEST: Finally, I know the argument says a European would be better at this moment in Europe, and your argument says, you're just as good at that as anybody else and, in fact, who knows where the next crisis will come from.

I suppose the core question is, what's it going to take for you to win?

CARSTENS: Well, I think it certainly will take emerging markets to coalesce behind me to get support of the different emerging markets. And I also would need support from some advanced economies.

And the support of emerging markets should come because I'm part of them, I know their problems, I know what they need and what they aspire in the Fund, and I think I can deliver. And from the advanced economies, they have to trust at some point in emerging market candidate because we have the knowledge, we have the experience.

In crisis management, there is nobody better than emerging market persons.

QUEST: Mr. Governor, thank you for joining us. And as this process continues, we wish you luck, as we did to all the candidates, and we hope that we'll talk to you again as this process continues. Many thanks, sir, for joining me tonight from Mexico. Many thanks.

The governor of the Central Bank of Mexico, one of the candidates, of course, for the IMF managing directorship.

G-8 nations are matching their words with money spent when it comes to helping Tunisia and Egypt. The Group of Eight promised to give $20 billion in aid to the two countries to help their transition to democracy.

Attending the annual summit in France today, the G-8 lent leaders, likened the revolution in North African and the Middle East to the fall of the Berlin Wall. They also held to the prospect of billions more in aid.

The Arab Spring is at a fragile juncture. More than ever, it relies heavily on financial support. Yesterday, I was joined by Jose Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission. I asked President Barroso whether now is really the time for all the Gs, 8 and 20, to come out stronger and say "We'll do what we can."


JOSE MANUEL BARROSO, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: Look, let me be frank. Europeans are not just talking about it. We are by far the biggest contributor to North Africa and to the so-called Arab Spring.

And just now, we have announced more commitments in terms of grants, not only loans. There is also the loans given by the European Investment Bank. So, it's by far the biggest contribution.

And I believe it's right to do it. We have defined a policy of more for more. Those countries who make more reforms, they will have more support.

But at the same time, I think it's not only our solidarity with those countries to the fight for democracy and freedom, but also it is in our interest, because it is, I think, less expensive to support democracies than to spend money in wars with dictatorships.

And also to ensure the overall stability in the area, so I think it's a very good investment, and we have to support Tunisia and Egypt.

I was recently in Tunisia. Cathy Ashton was recently in Benghazi. She told us that she saw tears in the eyes of many Libyans when they saw European Union flag along with the Libyan flag. Now, we have the first external office in Benghazi, that's -- the Libyan people wait a lot for aid, and I think we should not disappoint them.


QUEST: The Greek prime minister yesterday, a robust statement that you will have seen, basically telling the press and anyone else to back off and let them get on with their reforms. Is there now a situation that what's happening in Greece could dangerously spin out of control with the markets?


BARROSO: Look, we are working now with Greece. There is now a mission, in Athens, a new commission together with European Central Bank and IMF, they are assessing the situation. They have been making great effort.

Let's not forget that in one year, they have reduced their deficit for five percent of their GDP. This is very important.

But there are some areas where probably they need to do more. And so, we will come with some ideas very soon.

At this stage, I cannot yet say what will be the report of the commission and IMF, but certainly, most likely, there will be additional measures needed, and I hope that our Greek friends will show a determination to implement necessary adjustments.

QUEST: You're at the G-8. We're already hearing questions. One US official has been commenting on the volatility of the dollar and the euro exchange rate.

Now, the euro, of course, is strong at the moment, or relatively, but the fragility of the euro is very much linked to how these sovereign debt issues are going to be resolved, Mr. President.

BARROSO: Look, frankly, I think the euro is very strong and stable. There is not a problem with the euro. What we have, and let's be honest, some problems with the sovereign debt of some member states of the euro area. We knew that, and we are dealing with that.

But the euro is strong, and it's strong mainly because the fundamentals of the euro area are very sound, and inflation is very low. So, in fact, the euro, if you look at evolution since it was created, it has gained a lot of value compared with the dollar or the Chinese currency.


QUEST: President Barroso talking to me on the line yesterday.

After the break, the chairman, chief executive of Carlson Companies, Marilyn Carlson Nelson, part of our Freedom Project.


QUEST: There are few industries that I enjoy covering more than aviation, travel, and tourism, so when it was our turn to look at the CNN Freedom Project here on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, well, clearly, we had to look at the trade in human beings, and we had to put it into the context of being what the tourist companies are doing.

Carlson Companies is the group that owns chains like Radisson Hotels. It was the first global travel company in North America to sigh the industry's code of conduct, which helps protect children from exploitation by sex tourists.

The chair and chief executive, Marilyn Carlson Nelson, joins us now from Minneapolis. Marilyn, you signed the code, you're a leader in this, you've -- other companies are reluctant to do so. What would you tell them?

MARILYN CARLSON NELSON, CHAIR AND CEO, CARLSON COMPANIES: Well, certainly, more and more companies are doing it.

I think that, perhaps, at the beginning, there was a reluctance because, really, travel and tourism is a happiness business. We bring people together, we feel like we promote global peace that way.

So, to suddenly begin talking about using children as commodities and buying and selling them and being associated that -- with that is certainly not something that most PR firms or, in some cases, even legal departments recommend.

But what we -- what we did when we began to realize the extent of the problem, and we became indignant to think that 2.3 million children are being exploited. They're being treated as commodities and bought and sold.

Once you become aware of it, it's just unconscionable not to do everything you can --

QUEST: Right.

NELSON: -- to try to prevent it. So -- so I have to tell you that we have good news, that Delta Airlines has now signed. This is not something that Carlson wants as a differentiator. We want our industry --

QUEST: Right.

NELSON: -- to sign up and to help.

QUEST: The ex -- the range. Obviously, there's the sex exploitation part of it. But when you think that you and I have been many times to countries where there are abject, terrible poverty on one side of the island, and you'll have a five-star, luxurious resort on the other. And the labor from one paid next to nothing.

We've all got a duty, haven't we, as travelers to try and make this a more equitable business?

NELSON: Oh, Richard, I'm so pleased to hear you say that, and I'm so grateful for the Freedom Project.

The fact is that some travelers actually believe they're helping that poverty by buying these children or using them for sexual purposes. That's absolutely wrong. The fact is that this is illegal in just about every country in the world, and there's even extra territoriality where people who go and participate, buy children for sex outside of many countries can be incarcerated once they get home.

There's no question, though, that poverty is one of the causes that it causes and sometimes prompts families to sell their children.

But we all have both the job of creating jobs, which we in travel and tourism are very proud of the --


NELSON: -- one in eleven jobs we create around the world.

QUEST: And the tourists, we have a duty too, don't we?

I mean you can only do so much. But when I get on a plane, stay in your hotel, I -- I'm -- I have to keep my eyes open for what somebody else may be doing.

CARLSON NELSON: Well, we really appreciate that. We train our managers and our employees to look at -- to see what -- to watch -- what to watch out for, how to -- and how to report it properly.

QUEST: Right.

CARLSON NELSON: And then the authorities will take over. But if you're a traveler on an airplane and you see someone with a child, where, clearly, this child is not -- this is not a parent or a relationship -- the child averts their eyes, there are no toys, they sometimes don't even know their name, if you see children being brought into a property that clearly just don't have the right feeling, report it. Report it to the hotel.

QUEST: Absolutely.

CARLSON NELSON: Use the hotels where this is and everyone -- everyone can be an ambassador, a 21st century abolitionist. And every one of us has a responsibility to do it...

QUEST: Marilyn...

CARLSON NELSON: We can't protect our own children if we don't.

QUEST: -- we need to lend it there. I could talk much -- much more, but we'll have to leave it there.

Have a good weekend.

Many thanks for joining us.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS -- we turn to the football world and scandal.

It's after the break.


QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

This is CNN. And on this network, the news always comes first, the news always comes first.

A Serbian judge has found the former Bosnian Serb commander, Ratko Mladic, fit for extradition to the Hague. Legal proceedings continue and they could take several more days. Mladic was arrested in Serbia on Thursday, wanted on charges of genocide, extermination and murder in connection with the Bosnia war in the 1990s.

A combination of human error and equipment failure may be the blame for the crash of Air France 447. A new report out indicates pilots were getting bad information on the air speed of the aircraft. Some suggest they made the problem worse by attempting to pull up the nose of the aircraft. All 228 people on board died when the plane crashed two years ago.

FIFA President Sepp Blatter is facing an investigation by world football's governing body. Blatter is scheduled to appear before FIFA's ethics committee on Sunday and expected to respond to claims that he knew about the alleged payments that are the focus of an investigation looking at his election rival, Mohamed bin Hammam.

CNN's Alex Thomas is in Central London with more on this for us tonight -- Alex, what on earth suddenly blew this into the stratosphere?

ALEX THOMAS, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: To those outside FIFA, Richard, this is a colossal mess. As I squint into the setting sun at Hyde Park in London, I'm in the UEFA champion's festival. UEFA European football's governing body, looking forward to their biggest match of the year and one of the biggest single sporting events of the calendar, the Champions League final between two stellar teams, Manchester United and Barcelona, but completely overshadowed by this chaos at the head of world football, FIFA, both its president, Seth Blatter, and Blatter's rival for the forthcoming presidency election, Mohamed bin Hammam, will have to face its own ethics committee on Sunday, just three days before the vote, both accused of corruption -- one dragged into the other's mess, if you like.

Now, FIFA he had a pretty tarnished reputation for years...

QUEST: Right.

THOMAS: -- although it's always denied not doing things the best possible way. We could be here forever to go into the details. But nevertheless, this is turning into a bit of a farce as the British sports minister, Hugh Robertson, said here today.

QUEST: All right, but it is like that one giant vat of whitewash is going to be thrown over this whole scandal, they'll be kissing and making up before we are finished?

THOMAS: I don't think there will be any kissing and making up in the short-term, Richard. But you're right to be skeptical about real change happening in the long-term in FIFA. Its own ethics committee is investa -- investigating its own president. And another member of the executive committee who is standing for election for president next Wednesday, June the 1st.

However, it's all internal, isn't it?

It's men in suits investigating other men in suits at the head of world football -- massively institutionalized...

QUEST: All right.

THOMAS: And people on the other side have been seeing problems for years. But to FIFA themselves, they're reluctant to admit as much.

QUEST: A quick question -- a very quick -- quick answer required.

Who's going to win tomorrow?

A quick answer.

THOMAS: Barcelona are the favorites and they'll probably win it by a narrow margin, Richard.

QUEST: Wow! He came off the fence. Whoa.

Alex Thomas, the man who could always be regarded right on short with a good answer.

Alex, many thanks, indeed.

Now, the disappointment of those at the top of football will be matched by the excellence of the game in the Champions League. Fans are getting ready for the match. We'll ask Heineken why they spent so much money sponsoring this game.


QUEST: Now, Heineken is keeping the money flowing into football. The brewer says it will continue to sponsor the UEFA Champions League for three more years. And Heineken nor UEFA is letting on how much the deal is worth. And believe me, I had a good try trying to figure out.

When I sat down with Heineken's chief commercial officer, Alexis Nasard, and UEFA president, David Taylor.

The first and most important question, what's Heineken getting for its money?


ALEXIS NASARD, CHIEF COMMERCIAL OFFICER, HEINEKEN: We get awareness and we get brand image, which ultimately will reflect itself in sales. This property, which is the Champions League, is broadcast in 220 countries. And about four billion people see it every season. That is quite a lot of footprint.

QUEST: When you are looking for a sponsor, obviously, the first -- the -- the opening gambit has to be have they got the money?

And you're not looking for Tuppence Ha'penny.


QUEST: It's not cheap.

But what determines whether you go for a Heineken or another sponsor?

TAYLOR: Well, one of the things that we have with Heineken is that we have a longstanding relationship. Since 1994, we've been involved with the company, and since 2006, with the particular brand, Heineken. And longevity is important in brand marketing, as Alexis will tell you. So we like a good relationship to last a long time and we have confidence in this relationship.

QUEST: Bund more than that from him, don't you, because you need him to do your free promotion, basically, for your competition?

TAYLOR: He's my marketing budget.

QUEST: Right.


QUEST: Right. He -- he is basically paying your bills.


NASARD: Not -- if I can add to what David is saying, to build on that, there is one -- there is a common philosophy toward partnership which we share with -- with UEFA. They are after fewer, bigger, better for longer. It's not about an exponential number of sponsors. And the same thing we -- we -- we agree with. And the other thing is that both brands -- because, ultimately, the Champions League, as well as Heineken, are brands -- stand for the same values.

QUEST: I need to just talk about -- talking about values, I do need to talk about one of the matters and the corruption scandal that is brewing very aggressively at FIFA. And what has happened -- and yet UEFA never really been tinged by any such questions of -- of nefarious misdeeds.

What are you doing right that they may be doing wrong?

TAYLOR: Well, all I would do is to echo the correct statement that you've made, that, as you can see, we are UEFA. We are not FIFA. Problems that have surfaced have to be properly investigated, but that is a matter for FIFA as an organization.

I'm pleased to say that UEFA hasn't got any of these problems or any of these issues. And that's important because all organizations exist on their reputation.

QUEST: Let's talk about -- come back to the -- the football and -- and the game.

For you, what is a perfect scenario for how a Champions League season performs?

What, for you, I have to write, when you're justifying to your chief executive and your chairman, how much you want to spend -- how much was it again?

You were...




QUEST: All right. Whatever...


NASARD: -- because I could be.

QUEST: All right.

So when you're justifying...


QUEST: -- it, what would you -- what would you -- how do you set out your perfect scenario for a season?

NASARD: The perfect scenario for a season is very simple -- lots of viewers and lots of engagement. Lots of viewers means more contact points in lots of engagement means they are mentally more attuned to the game.

QUEST: And the game on Saturday, have we not got to a final that is exactly the dream scenario?

NASARD: I think it's pretty close.

TAYLOR: I think it's -- it's -- I wouldn't comment on who -- which teams get to the final. Interestingly...

QUEST: Oh, it's the same final.

TAYLOR: Interestingly, it's the same final as two years ago...

QUEST: Right.

TAYLOR: -- in Rome. And one of the things that will be very interesting will be to look at the audience figures and look at the Saturday final, which has now become a Saturday evening final, and then we'll have a real comparison to make.

But I think this is -- this is just a -- a great game as a climax to the season.


QUEST: The UEFA Cup final. And we never did find out how much Heineken is sponsoring it for. And I suspect we never will.

That brings us to the end of QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight and for this week. What a week it has been. We have brought you some of the very biggest names in international economics and, of course, the chief executives that matter.

But it wouldn't make any difference if you weren't there. You are there big difference.

I'm Richard Quest in London.

Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I do hope it's profitable.



ROBYN CURNOW, HOST: You're watching MARKETPLACE AFRICA. I'm Robin Curnow here in Cape Town.

Now, his name is Sina Gerard, but mostly he's just called Mr. Everything. And with good reason. He's one of Rwanda's most successful entrepreneurs. He has his hand across several different and unusual businesses.

David McKenzie now reports on his growing empire.


DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a well- known office mantra -- keep the employees happy. Sometimes, music can do the trick, even when your employees are pigs. These pigs ham it up to R&B, rap and even local favorites.

Rwandese entrepreneur, Sina Gerard, came up with the idea. He says he wants his pigs happy and productive.

SINA GERARD, FOUNDER, URWIBUTSO (through translator): What I realize is that pigs need music. They eat well, they don't waste what they eat, they deliver well, they even mate well.

MCKENZIE: He says production is way up and even has a control group without music to prove his point.

It's a typically successful and quirky enterprise of Gerard, perhaps Rwanda's best known businessman, a self-made millionaire whose goal is to help the area's people as much as himself.

GERARD: My aim it to make sure that the Rwandan people build themselves and get out of poverty. My aim is to make sure Rwandan farmers, because they are rated at 90 percent, that they feel proud to be farmers. I'm sure I'll achieve it, because so far, I've achieved a lot.

MCKENZIE: He's achieved it by focusing on agricultural innovation, like producing strawberries rather than staples and testing out new products to Rwanda, like apples and wine-producing grapes.

Gerard's company gives farmers free seed, fertilizer and training and, in turn, buys their products. And he's always ready to hear advice of complaints from the farmers.

GERARD: That's me. That's how I am. I love people. And for me to have financial security, it's because I live well with all my neighbors here. I look for that very poor person and help him or her, not necessarily financially, but train them and give them more knowledge.

MCKENZIE: It's a philosophy he takes seriously. When he started his business, the valley (ph) had no school, so he built one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who can give me two characteristics of plantation farming?

MCKENZIE: Gerard hopes that some of these graduates will join one of his businesses. And there are a lot to choose from.

(on camera): You're doing so many different things, so many different businesses.


MCKENZIE: Why not just do one or two things?

GERARD: I'll answer that question but also ask a question, who else can do it?

Since I'm here and I'm able to do it, I just chose to do it all.

MCKENZIE: Including selling directly to the public. His 24-hour roadside store sells finished products like juice and cordial (ph) to passersby. But Gerard's first real business success wasn't the food, but what he put on it.

(on camera): This is ultimately what's it's all about -- that's Sina Gerard's famous akunga (ph) sauce. It's a chili sauce -- really, a chili oil, but it's made from the yellow chili. It looks kind of innocuous, but it packs a real punch. So what you do is you come here, put maybe one drop or two onto your bruschetta, grab a bit and it's searingly hot, but really good.

(voice-over): Akunga (ph) is so strong, you have to wear a face mask just to make it. It's wildly popular in Rwanda and boxed and shipped around the world. It's Gerard's favorite product, but just one of a staggering array of businesses.

Thirty-five years ago, Sina Gerard had one employee selling homemade bread. Now, he says, he employs hundreds, buys from thousands. He stays in the town where he was born so that he can tap into the skills and aspirations of the people and build an empire by doing just about everything.

David McKenzie, CNN, Uringarama, (ph) Rwanda.


CURNOW: Let's take a look at doing business in Rwanda.

In 2009, the World Bank named Rwanda the world's top reformer based on its business friendly regulations. Entrepreneurs can open up a business online within three days, compared to the 45 day average on most of Sub-Saharan Africa.

So, now that it's easier and faster to do business in Rwanda, will the East African nation be an investment destination for global markets?

Well, up next, we talk about Rwanda's foreign investment strategy.


CURNOW: At this month's World Economic Forum here in Cape Town, there was much talk about the rise of foreign investment into Africa.

Well, I had a chance to sit down with the minister of finance of Rwanda to chat not just about that country's economic progress, but also about their strategy for foreign investment.


JOHN RWANGOMBWA, RWANDAN MINISTER OF FINANCE: In our long-term vision, our vision 2020, we say that the private sector is going to be the engine of our development. And therefore, we -- we started reforms that would facilitate that private sector growth. And so we've had these legislative reforms in the registering of businesses, the closing of businesses and how business deals with the government regulations and the legal processes that make it easier for -- for business to operate in Rwanda. And we are a country that is well-endowed with natural resources, but we think we can make a difference in terms of creating an environment where investors feel free to come in different -- mainly the service sector and -- and today, the other factor that we are integrated into the East African region, the EAC economic community. And this is a -- a region with a population of about 130 million. And we are really targeting to -- to be the -- the entry point to this big part of Africa.

CURNOW: You're positioning yourself as a hub, as a business hub for the region?


CURNOW: And it makes sense, no doubt, that what you're doing is, in a way, quite revolutionary for Africa, because you're taking away a lot of the red tape and the bureaucracy.


CURNOW: And that's why Rwanda is a success story, because you -- it's easy to start a business there.

RWANGOMBWA: Yes, well, we have this commitment from our president, who says he wants to run his country like a CEO of -- of a business organization. So that means a lot in terms of how we -- we structure business, how we -- we deal with our -- our customers. We are looking at whoever is coming to government for government services as a customer.

CURNOW: Why is Rwanda doing this?

Why -- what -- what makes Rwanda so different that it's taking these steps?

Is it leadership?

RWANGOMBWA: Yes, we -- because the -- the leadership says we -- why should we be poor and why should Africa be voted as -- as an underperforming continent?

We say if other countries have done it, why can't we do it?

CURNOW: What about the -- still, the perception that when you type into Google, you go Rwanda, and what pops up, genocide?


CURNOW: It's not an enabling business environment. Genocide still comes up. So I think for the outside business community, people might still taint you with that brush, even though it was nearly two decades ago.

RWANGOMBWA: It's unfortunate, a tough answer. But what we are trying to do is, yes, we have that legacy. But we can build real change in ourselves and (INAUDIBLE)...

CURNOW: So is a lot of what you have to do is sell Rwanda's story?


CURNOW: Do you find yourself more as a P.R. man than a finance man?


RWANGOMBWA: I am a finance man, of course. But as a finance man, I am proud to be selling the good things we are doing. And, of course, with that background of people just knowing the bad things about Rwanda, we are all, as government officials, but also even as Rwandans, committed to be telling the good story about Rwanda.

CURNOW: What do you say to the criticism that Rwanda's growth has been underpinned, perhaps, by a closing of human rights and perhaps press freedoms?

RWANGOMBWA: It's not true. It's not true, because these -- these things go together. When you look at the -- the services (ph) being done in our country, you know the problem we have is you find this supports human rights organization outside there making the -- more noise about Rwandans' freedoms than Rwandans themselves are -- are doing.

So when you look at the services (ph) or -- or around Rwandans and their confidence in their government, it's more than 90 percent. We really fight and try to deliver as much (INAUDIBLE) as possible to our population.

Issues to do with corruption is zero tolerance to corruption.

So that makes a big difference on how our people see us in government, as - - they see us as people who want to deliver.

So we aren't just there to -- to steal from the coffers of the countries. We are there to use any resources we get for the benefit of our -- of our country, of our population and -- and that's making a dif -- a big difference in the achievements we are -- we are doing.


CURNOW: John Rwangombwa there, the finance minister of Rwanda.

Now, here's what's trending this week.


CURNOW (voice-over): With China's presence growing in Africa, India is making its own significant push onto the continent with a slew of new trade and investment deals. India has pledged a $5 billion line of credit for development initiatives across Africa. It also plans to spend an additional $700 million on new institutions and training programs.

India- Africa trade currently stands at $46 billion, about a third of China-Africa trade. But it's expected to surpass $70 billion over the next few years.


CURNOW: Well, that's it for this week's show.

From Cape Town, I'm Robyn Curnow.

Don't forget, we're always online at

But until next week, good-bye.