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NANCY GRACE

Search for Zahra Centers on Wood and Mulch Piles

Aired October 14, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live North Carolina. A 10- year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aids, can only walk using a prosthetic leg after losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer. This little girl, facing so much hardship, now vanishing into thin air, her bedroom empty, her prosthetic leg missing, hearing aids left behind. The last person to see Zahra alive, stepmommy. Investigators zero in on a ransom note. K9s hit on Daddy`s industrial wood chipper and around family cars as search teams scour densely wooded areas, combing grainy surveillance video from nearby businesses.

In a stunning twist, stepmommy arrested on bad checks as Zahra`s dad says his whole marriage has been a lie. Investigators seizing items from the family home, including gas cans and samples of possible blood taken from the family car. Did stepmommy confess to that phony million-dollar ransom note? Police say no one has seen the 10-year-old for weeks. And now a day late, a dollar short, friends, relatives came forward to say the stepmom made this little girl`s life hell.

Bombshell tonight. At this hour, right now, into tonight, a massive search under way. Cops and cadaver dogs hone in on a wood and mulch pile, sifting through debris literally on their hands and knees. Have K9s hit on a scent of human remains? This as investigators search into the wee hours last night, draining a pond, scouring a six-acre area. This pond directly adjacent -- next to -- Daddy`s former job site. The sheriff says Daddy not cooperating. All this as the photo of little Zahra emerging with a black eye, stepmommy`s own son refusing to defend her in public, her family now claiming they called child services many times, but nothing happened to protect the little girl. Why? And tonight, where is Zahra?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We have your daughter."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Claire Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You like being in control."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Hickory, North Carolina believe she is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Now who`s in control?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You understand you`ve been charged with a felony of obstruction of justice?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can`t believe anything she ever says.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had nothing to do with this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker admitted to writing the ransom note.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has tried to cooperate with the police.

GRACE: Police draining a pond.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are looking for a human body.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crews were digging through wood debris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had nothing to do with this whatsoever.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of Zahra Baker has ties to this location.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think it`s odd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We really appreciate everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how sincere his concern is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not going to stop looking for Zahra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She loves her daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a bruise under her eye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She loves her daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If wouldn`t walk right, she would get punished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She loves her daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would scream (INAUDIBLE) I hate you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This poor child has not had a chance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) without them (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just downright evil!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live, Oregon, an 11-year-old little boy seemingly vanishing without a trace, getting off the school bus. Tonight, where is 11-year-old Lok?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement needs your help. Eleven-year-old Lok last seen getting off his school bus in front of his own home. Now cops on the lookout for the little boy, who was reportedly spotted by numerous witnesses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives aren`t looking at other unrelated people at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may be in the Tacoma, Washington, area with Michael Hall (ph), the mother`s boyfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The focus of the investigation is on the mother and the mother`s boyfriend, at this point, to track them down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hall may be driving a 1993 black Dodge Caravan, Washington license plates 660 ZZU. Little Lok, just 4-foot-7, 80 pounds, shoulder-length black hair and brown eyes. The young boy also wears thick black-rimmed glasses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl, completely dependent on two hearing aids, losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer, snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. At this hour, right now, into the night, a massive search now under way. Cops, cadaver dogs hone in on a wood and mulch pile, sifting through debris literally on their hands and knees. Have the K9s hit on the scent of human remains?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We came here specifically to hunt for remains.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A full-scale search is under way today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To find Zahra Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s 10 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cancer survivor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Claire Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is now being investigated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A homicide investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information keeps leading back to this location.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police were led to this area initially.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father -- the people who own the property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Questions are being raised about him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father knew of this property.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because Adam Baker, the father of Zahra Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They dumped (ph) some of their brush and their tree trimming business here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has equipment that he keeps on this land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s where the search is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now where are we?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dogs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Items were taken from the home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Scent of human remains.

GRACE: No one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.

GRACE: Repeat, no one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stepmom.

GRACE: Is ruled out as a suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are at a point where they`re draining a pond in the middle of the night, trying to look for her remains.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are a lot of allegations of abuse. Do you want to say anything in your mother`s defense?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, right now`s not the appropriate time for that. You know, look, we need to let all the facts come out and go from there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That was Elisa Baker`s son on ABC`s "Good Morning America." We are taking your calls live. But right now, out to the search site at Morganton, North Carolina, Natisha Lance standing by. Natisha, what`s going on?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, today, Nancy, a massive search back at this search location that Adam Baker has ties to for work reasons. Police were out here today with about 70 searchers, cadaver dogs. There was a backhoe out that was clearing logs away, and then all the way down to the earth, and then bringing cadaver dogs in to look at that area. Four-wheelers were out today also. They used a grid search method to search this area. It was about 60 acres, according to the sheriff of Burke County.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute!

LANCE: He also said that...

GRACE: Back it up, Natisha! Tell me the part again -- let me take this down -- about digging down to what level? They`re going into this big mulch and wood pile?

LANCE: Right, Nancy. There were wood piles, and they were using a backhoe to remove the wood from those wood piles down to the earth, then bringing the cadaver dogs in to sniff around on the earth, as well as on those log piles.

GRACE: OK, tell me how they are doing it. I understand it`s an extremely methodical process, lying out long poles to cordon off the earth. How is it happening? How are they doing it, Natisha?

LANCE: Just like you said, Nancy. They are doing it extremely methodically, going over this area over and over again. They also used rakes to sift through this area, sift through any type of mulch or leaves, looking for any kind of clues that could lead them to Zahra.

Now, also, additionally, Nancy, they`re trying to narrow in on this timeline. What we learned today is that police are getting closer to that. They now have found someone outside of the family who saw Zahra in mid- September to late September.

GRACE: OK. Who is it? Where did they see the girl? What do you know, Natisha? And please don`t make me pull teeth tonight. What do we know?

LANCE: They`re not naming that person, Nancy. They said that they are still trying to narrow down those details. But they are saying that they have identified a person outside of the immediate family who did see Zahra mid-September to late September. Also, a local report is saying that Zahra did make that move with her family to the new home at the Hickory location, where police -- where neighbors have said that they never even saw her around that neighborhood. But police are saying that she did make that move with her family.

GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing shots of an ongoing search. OK, Natisha, where does that leave me? Today is October 14th. So at the very best -- 30 days hath September -- that`s two weeks since anyone has seen her.

LANCE: You`re right, Nancy. But people in that neighborhood have said that they did not see her. So we are trying to figure out who this person was that did see her. Was it somebody who was at a store? Was it a doctor? Was it a school teacher? Was it somebody who saw her walking somewhere? Those are still questions that still need to be answered...

GRACE: Well, I know it`s not...

LANCE: ... but police are still...

GRACE: ... a school teacher.

LANCE: ... trying to narrow it down.

GRACE: I know it`s not a school teacher because his father agreed for the stepmother to home school the little girl. OK, Natisha, I want more detail about what these dogs are doing. Ellis Jostad tells me that the dogs were literally, some of them, lying down on the ground and that the police, the experts in this, were digging down into the earth with long poles, filming it. I got to hear out the whole thing to figure out what they`re doing, Natisha!

LANCE: Well, at certain points, the investigators did have on gloves. They were holding up the bags to the dogs, trying to get them to get a sniff. Some of the dogs did lay down at certain points where it appeared that they may have hit on something, although there is no confirmation of that. Also, there were poles that were seen, which it appeared that they were digging into the earth, getting soil samples of some sort. But they did a very methodical search of this area, going over and over it again, searching with a fine-toothed comb.

GRACE: Also with us there at the Morganton, North Carolina, search site, the editor of "The Hickory Daily Record," John Miller. He`s been on the story from the very beginning. OK, John, be my eyes. Be my ears. Tell me what you`re seeing out there. What went down?

JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD": This was a -- as Natisha said, 70 officers from fire, rescue, Hickory, Burke County. They wanted to leave -- and the quote is, they wanted to leave no bush that they didn`t look under, no piece of wood they didn`t look under. And it`s a 60-acre site. So they were very methodical and looking under everything that they hadn`t looked for before. And what they were really trying to do, from what sources in Hickory tell me, is that they are trying to eliminate this site as a possible site where the body may be found.

GRACE: Well, here`s the...

MILLER: So that`s why they`re...

GRACE: Here`s the...

MILLER: ... going over it again...

GRACE: ... deal. Pat Brown...

MILLER: ... and again and again.

GRACE: ... criminal profiler joining us out of D.C. Here`s the thing. If that hit on the wood chipper, the cadaver dog or K9 that hit on the wood chipper -- if that industrial wood chipper was used in the disposal and destruction of this little girl`s body, they`re not going to find a piece of her body. They`re not going to find a body, as we know it, Pat Brown.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Yes, that`s correct. They might find bone fragments, though, and that`s what they`re looking for. If there`s evidence that her body was, you know, put through a wood chipper, at least, you know, they won`t know what the cause of death is, but they`ll sure know that they went to an awful lot of work to get rid of her. So that would be very important to find (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Crystal, Ohio. Hi, Crystal. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to tell you that you are truly, truly one of God`s special angels.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The work that you do is amazing! And we love you...

GRACE: I appreciate that, and I pray that somehow, we are getting closer to finding out what happened to little Zahra. What is your question, Crystal?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is the investigation going in regards to the father? What do the police know about him?

GRACE: Good question. Ellie Jostad, I`m seeing an about-face as the police discuss the father. And the natural son of the stepmother -- he`s asked in public about his mom, and he won`t comment. He will not defend his own mother?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, you`re -- yes, you`re totally right, Nancy. This is the son. His name is Douglas Proctor. He was at that vigil for Zahra last night. And when a reporter asked him, Do you want to say something in your mother`s defense, he said, Now is not the appropriate time, I need to gather more facts. I can`t talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to 10-year-old Zahra Baker?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who fought cancer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra Claire Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lost her leg.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And her hearing.

ZAHRA BAKER, 10 YEARS OLD: I can actually hear more (ph) than without my hearing aids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Hickory, North Carolina, believe she is dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: You are seeing aerial video of an ongoing site, an ongoing site, a search for 10-year-old Zahra.

Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Out to Laura in Alabama. Hi, Laura.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering. If the dogs hit on the blood at the wood chipper and they found remains in both vehicles in the cars at home, has anyone considered that maybe they transported her remains away from this area?

GRACE: I think that is a very astute observation, Laura in Alabama.

Out to Sheryl McCollum, cold case expert. She`s the director of the cold case squad, Pine Lake PD, author of "Cold Case: Pathways to justice. Sheryl, what do you think?

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: Yes, I think Laura`s on to something. That`s why they hit on both cars, Nancy. And it also could be that they transported other items, such as the clothes that they had on, or that they kept her in something, like a laundry bag or a piece of luggage. They could have -- we could have more than one scene, more than one area that we`re looking at. No question about it.

GRACE: Weigh in...

MCCOLLUM: And as far...

GRACE: Sheryl, you`ve studied all the facts. What do you think?

MCCOLLUM: I`m telling you right now they`re going to find something. That wood chipper is key. They`re going to take the thing apart.

GRACE: To Tanya Hefner joining us, a former neighbor of the Bakers who actually filed charges against the stepmom. Tanya, welcome.

TANYA HEFNER, FMR. NEIGHBOR, FILED CHARGES AGAINST STEPMOM (via telephone): Thank you.

GRACE: Tanya, what charges did you file against Baker?

HEFNER: It was communicating threats to minor children.

GRACE: What did you observe about her treatment of Zahra?

HEFNER: Because of her cancer, apparently, she had to do therapy, walking therapy. She would walk her child up and down the hill. And as she was walking up and down the hill, she would make fun of the child for not walking right, not walking fast enough. She would slap her. She pull her hair. She would cuss at her.

GRACE: What would she say about how Zahra walked?

HEFNER: You`re not walking fast enough. I thought you were a big girl, thought you could do this. You need to walk a little faster. You need to do this a little better.

GRACE: And you`re telling me that you personally observed her slap Zahra in the face.

HEFNER: I haven`t seen her slap her in the face. I have seen her pull her hair and I have seen her jerk her by her shirt. But the neighbors have seen her do other things to her, and the neighborhood children have also seen her do it.

GRACE: When you say that they have seen her do -- we`re talking about the stepmother -- do other things to Zahra -- what other things?

HEFNER: As far as screaming at her, cussing at her, putting her down, just the same thing that we saw out here in the street that she did as she was walking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The homicide investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators searching for 10-year-old Zahra Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crews searched the property.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her parents said they last saw her at 2:30 Saturday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a notice at the house, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to a search warrant, there was a fire in the back yard three hours later.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are a lot of allegations of abuse. Do you want to say anything in your mother`s defense?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, right now`s not the appropriate time for that. You know, we need to let all the facts come out and go from there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is Baker`s son on ABC`s "Good Morning America." When asked in public, he did not defend his own mother.

We are coming to you live tonight from North Carolina, where a search is ongoing right now. Let`s go back to the scene of the search, back to Natisha Lance. Natisha, how many dogs and how many cops are out there?

LANCE: Well, Nancy, there were 13 search teams that were out here. Don`t know how many dogs that were out here, but there were 13 search teams, and not sure how many people were in each of those search teams. But they were carrying sticks. They were going out in different crews as the heat was -- earlier today, the heat was pretty hot out here, so they were going out in different crews, coming back in and refueling, getting water and then going back out again, going over those areas over and over again.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Laura in Alabama. Hi, Laura. Oh, excuse me. Amy in Tennessee. Hi, Amy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a 10 and 12-year-old myself, two little boys, and their dad passed away two-and-a-half years ago from melanoma cancer. I recently started dating and I have a boyfriend. Now, I know, as you probably do, you know...

GRACE: OK, Amy, where is this going?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, you know, I know how my kids act around people. I`m just wondering if, you know, the little girl said anything to her dad about the way her stepmom was treating her or acted any different? And if so...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Well, I know this, Amy. I know this. When she would go to other people`s homes and it got time for her to go home with her stepmother, she would run to the back of various homes and cry and hide so she wouldn`t have to go home. So if she would tell all that to neighbors, I imagine at some point, she had voiced her feelings to her father, who, apparently, by all accounts, stood by and did nothing.

What do we know, John Miller, joining us from "The Hickory Daily Record"?

MILLER: We know that police are following up on more than 100 leads that have come in since the case has gained such a notoriety. Each of those leads are being run down by not only the Hickory Police Department but by other authorities who are helping. We also are going to have a story in tomorrow`s "Daily Record" about the apartment complex that the Baker family lived in from June 2009 to November 2009, where it looks like Zahra had to sleep in a crawlspace above the closet. So we`ll know...

GRACE: And to Ellie Jostad...

MILLER: ... more about that...

GRACE: And to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, isn`t it true we`ve now confirmed child services to the home at least three times?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, that is what a friend of the stepmom`s daughter says. She claims the family did try. She says they did call three times. DSS won`t confirm that.

GRACE: And even though people begged for help from child services, tonight we`re searching a wood chipper for her body.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What happened to 10-year-old Zahra Baker?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a very emotional time for law enforcement.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police drained a pond looking for the possibility of finding a body.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This woman smelled something outside her home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I want them to find her.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A full-scale search is under way today.

BRITTANY BENTLEY, RELATIVE OF MISSING GIRL`S STEPMOTHER, ELISA BAKER: I know this day was going to come.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her stepmother Elisa Baker is in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Little Zahra was often beaten, locked in a room.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elisa Baker feels she`s being railroaded by police.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Step mom made Zahra`s life a living hell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer, she had nothing to do with this whatsoever.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elisa Baker`s son, Douglas Baker, issued this statement. "I am unable to make any comment on anything regarding Zahra Baker as well as my mother, Elisa Baker."

BENTLEY: Anybody who knew Zahra, how she was being treated, this was going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say Zahra`s stepmom has not been truthful.

BENTLEY: If you know her, nothing adds up.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police do believe that Zahra is dead.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: It`s evil. It`s just downright evil.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But they do not have her body and no one is charged with her murder.

ADAM BAKER, FATHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL ZAHRA BAKER: I came back from looking at a job and started some work in the yard. And her mother came out and started screaming that Zahra was --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What did she tell you? Where did she say it happened? What did she know?

A. BAKER: She didn`t know very much. She came out crying and panicking, saying Zahra was gone. I went inside, searched the house. Thought I`d search around the clock and called the police.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think your wife could have had something to do with Zahra`s disappearance?

A. BAKER: I wouldn`t like to think so, but from what I`ve heard so far, it could be possible.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is Zahra Baker`s father on ABC`s "Good Morning America." And what I don`t get is, the father is saying he didn`t see the little girl since Thursday? And get up early in the morning, go to work, get home late at night, started to sleep but -- when that many days go pass, don`t you just tiptoe into the room to see them?

When the twins are asleep when I get home that rare occasion I go in and look at them? When I wake up in the middle of the night, even if I don`t hear them, I go check on them. How can a father go days on end without even looking -- laying eyes on his daughter.

What about it, Bethany Marshall?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, Nancy, I think he was participating in abuse. This mother had something called factitious disorder, that is when the mom makes up mysterious illnesses like cancer, brain cancer, stuff like that in order to get sympathy so there`s a likelihood that she gravitated toward this family because the little girl had cancer.

And she wanted to gain control over the little girl and took some perverse satisfaction in proximity to the little girl`s illness, but then became sadistically preoccupied. This mother loved to torment the little girl. She took perverse satisfaction in that.

And I have a very hard time --

GRACE: You know, Bethany --

MARSHALL: -- believing that the dad didn`t know about it.

GRACE: Hold on. Wait. Slow it down. I`m trying to take in what you`re saying. You`re saying the mom had some attraction to the child because of her illness?

MARSHALL: That`s exactly --

GRACE: I don`t understand that number one. And number two, this attraction was not love or mercy or kindness or a mothering nursing instinct, because she began to torment the object of her fascination? I don`t understand what you`re saying.

MARSHALL: You put it perfectly. It was an attraction that went wrong. Initially it was an attraction towards the cancer because as she got close to the little girl, she could get all kinds of attention from care providers, doctors, hospitals, because the little girl had this illness, that`s Munchhausen syndrome.

But what happened is then she began to resent and hate the little girl because the little girl had special needs.

Remember the mother was preoccupied with her own symptoms and she faked cancer, so there would be a competition between hurting the little girl.

GRACE: Three times, Dr. Bethany. Three times this stepmother told people she herself had brain cancer. How many times can you have brain cancer?

MARSHALL: So think about what that competition turned into? It was extreme resentment towards the little girl for having needs. And then systematically torturing her and abusing her because she had needs.

One of the reporters said the little girl slept in a crawl space above the closet. She systematically increased the torture, and I really am very interested to know what the last few months of that little girl`s life was like, because I keep thinking that the torture was ratcheted up until the little girl died. And the dad knew about it and then they had to participate together in disposing of the body.

GRACE: You know another thing, listen to this, I`m going to go to Tanya Hefner. This is former neighbor of the Bakers who actually filed charges against Zahra`s stepmother.

Isn`t it true, Tanya, that you yourself told police twice about the way she treated Zahra?

TANYA HEFNER, FMR. NEIGHBOR OF BAKER FAMILY, FILED CHARGES AGAINST ELISA BAKER: Yes, I told her, I told two different sets of officers that came out here on two different occasions of the conversations I had with her about the abuse that we had seen and the neighborhood children had seen.

And -- so the first one that came out -- first set that came out, he said that he had not only heard that from me, he`d heard it from many other people about the abuse. And the second set that came out on another occasion told me that if I had a problem with it, then I need to either take it up with the Drug Enforcement Agency or I need to take it up with someone else.

GRACE: So the police were tired of hearing about it?

HEFNER: Exactly. And I did tell the school over the second incident and I explained to them my concerns over the little girl and the abuse, and they did come out and check on her.

GRACE: The school --

HEFNER: And it was shortly after that they moved out of the neighborhood.

GRACE: Are you saying the school came out?

HEFNER: Yes, the (INAUDIBLE) School did come out, and she brought another lady with her, and it was on a Saturday, and shortly after, two or three weeks after that, they moved out of the neighborhood.

GRACE: That seems to be a common theme, that when people get on to them, they move. They moved and moved and moved, all around North Carolina.

And John Miller, editor, "Hickory Daily Record," isn`t it true that you have learned -- you personally have learned they never registered Zahra for home schooling?

JOHN MILLER, EDITOR, HICKORY DAILY RECORD: No, they didn`t. And we checked today. They didn`t register her for home schooling in Catawba County, which was required when she withdraw from school in Caldwell County.

And she was also not registered for school in Catawba County if she -- in deed, she was going to school. And it`s a requirement by the state that must happen.

GRACE: Well, you know what?

MILLER: So what we`re also finding --

GRACE: We`re getting to the end of October. Has it taken a cadaver dog hitting on an industrial wood chipper to alert the school system in North Carolina, hey, she`s not in school, she`s not registered?

Now she`s probably gone down the wood chipper, people.

And I want to go now to Dr. Charles Sophy, medical director of the L.A. County Department of Children and Family Services. He`s the author of "Side by Side."

Dr. Sophy, I don`t mean to take this out on you because you`re joining me as a guest out of L.A. But how many times do you have to call child services and call the police and call the schools? You`ve got neighbors -- all these neighborhoods that they moved to.

You`ve got police, you`ve got child services visiting the home. You`ve got the teacher, the principal coming to the home. But nothing happens. Nothing happens. And now we`re looking at a wood chipper, Dr. Sophy. Help me out.

DR. CHARLES SOPHY, MD, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, L.A. CO. DEPT. OF CHILDREN & FAMILY SERVICES: I`m helping you. The problem is that, you know, it`s not just one agency. It is 15 different agencies going out there. Everybody`s doing their own thing and they`re not necessarily connected.

And everybody has a mission. The problem is it`s silo work. It doesn`t mean nothing`s happening, but everybody has got to be able to do what they have to do. You can`t walk into somebody`s house and take their child unless you`re sure it`s the right thing to do. So there are many factors --

GRACE: Well, do you think they`re sure now, Dr. Sophy? Do you think they`re sure now, now that we`re looking at a wood chipper and you`ve got cadaver dogs out sniffing down into the earth?

You think child services and the school system in North Carolina has figured out something might be wrong with little Zahra?

Unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Odom, prosecutor, death penalty qualified. And I`m going to need you on this case. Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. Alan Ripka, defense attorney, Atlanta.

Go ahead, Peter. Give me your best defense for step mommy.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, right now there`s nothing you can say. We see this time and time again, a missing child, suspicious stories --

GRACE: That`s your defense?

P. ODOM: Well, the best defense I can come up with now, Nancy, is that there`s not enough evidence to charge them with anything related to the child. It certainly seems to be getting that way, but until they come up with physical evidence they simply can`t charge them.

GRACE: Ripka?

P. ODOM: It seems -- it seems to me the police are getting there, though.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It seems to me that the husband has a lot more to do with this than the wife does. He had the ability to do what he had to do, take her to a place where he used to work, and that`s going to be the focus of the investigation.

GRACE: OK, that`s -- that`s the defense I see happening. Pointing the finger, Eleanor.

ELEANOR ODOM, FELONY PROSECUTOR, DEATH PENALTY QUALIFIED: Well, and it`s a difficult defense to choose, the co-defense will point the finger at each other, but the prosecutor`s job is to just go after them both.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got (INAUDIBLE) here. The chief of police is here, and the FBI, SDI. I think every agency here is throwing everything they can into this.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Search for Zahra went from an Amber Alert to a homicide investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No sign of Zahra.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dad is out free. Dad says he hasn`t seen her since Thursday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how sincere his concern is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies.

CHIEF TOM ATKINS, HICKORY POLICE: Inconsistencies developed over the course of this investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They resumed the search.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities are hoping to uncover new clues in the whereabouts of missing 10-year-old girl Zahra Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a tragedy. How could anybody not be concerned about their own daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police call Elisa Baker a person of interest and don`t know how long the little girl has actually been missing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just wanted to give Zahra some closure and give her some peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a tragedy. How could anybody not be concerned about their own daughter? That`s the thought (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does the father seem sincere when you were talking to him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seemed concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But you don`t believe --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how sincere his concern is. We don`t think it`s true.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You don`t believe that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But he says he had nothing to do with it.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Dr. Evelyn Minaya, women`s health expert joining us out of New York. Can you explain to me how this little girl would have cared for her leg, her prosthetic leg? And could all the care that was required for this little cancer survivor, just have driven the stepmother over the edge to where she hated the little girl?

I think that`s what Dr. Bethany is saying.

DR. EVELYN MINAYA, M.D., WOMEN`S HEALTH EXPERT: Right. Well, you know what, I can`t imagine anyone doing something like that to a child. But most importantly, remember, the prosthesis is actually placed by her. She`s the one that puts it on, and usually she walks around, so there`s nothing to do.

Her hearing aids, she`s the one that places it in the ears. So I don`t even understand what the stepmother has any involvement whatsoever in terms of her care, that she can`t hear? Well, you can sign language and that`s about it. But she takes care basically of herself, especially with the prosthesis.

GRACE: Well, you know, another thing, Bethany Marshall, back to what you were saying. If you look at little Zahra, she`s talking in some of those -- in some of that footage we have of her. This little girl could talk?

MARSHALL: I don`t think it`s just that the child needed extraordinary care, I think it`s that the child is loved and that the child is a child, and that the child has needs.

GRACE: You know, Bethany --

MARSHALL: And what the mother did is she successfully stripped --

GRACE: I don`t think it has anything to do with the extra care this little girl may have needed because a lot of children need extra care.

I mean, you know, Lucy was born at 2 pounds. She weighed 2 pounds. Can you imagine me holding the two of them trying to make them live? So what if she needed extra care? A lot of children do.

So what difference does that make, Bethany?

MARSHALL: Well, the difference -- the difference is that if you have a caretaker who has a severe personality disorder, they don`t want anybody else to have needs but them. There`s only one baby in the picture, and that is the mother. She was the baby. The little girl couldn`t be a baby and have separate needs. And that stimulated a wish in the mother to torture her.

GRACE: I got it.

MARSHALL: And I think the mother is a sadist. At the end of the day --

GRACE: To Tanya Hefner, this is a neighbor of the Bakers who actually filed charges against the stepmother.

Tanya, at least you had the backbone to keep going to police when a lot of people stood by silent and let this happen. They let it happen. Did you ever confront Mrs. Baker? You know, if I had seen her jerk that little girl by her shirt, I think -- I may have had to have a fist fight with the woman.

HEFNER: Not at that time I didn`t. But the first confrontation we had we did have an argument over the way she treated the child.

GRACE: What did she say?

HEFNER: She said I was lying, that that didn`t happen, and just, you know, continued to cuss at me and call me a liar.

GRACE: So where was Zahra at this time? Was she hearing all of this?

HEFNER: No, she was not around at that time.

GRACE: Back to the calls, we are taking your calls live. We are there at the search site in Mortgage, North Carolina.

With us, Natisha Lance, our producer, John Miller with the "Hickory Daily Record." As the search goes on, the police methodically lying out long poles and searching plot by plot, digging down into the ground.

Canine dogs, cadaver dogs, bloodhounds on their stomachs smelling down into the earth. Police literally on their hands and knees digging through a giant pile of mulch and wood trimmings, trying to find any trace of Zahra. This, as we know, dogs hitting on an industrial wood cutter used by her father.

Eleanor Odom, Peter Odom, Alan Ripka. What about a forensic interview, Eleanor? What about that?

E. ODOM: Right, Nancy, I`m shocked that when DFACS went out there, or the cops went out there, they didn`t interview the girl. Take her to the station, do a specific forensic interview.

GRACE: Yes. Out of the home.

E. ODOM: Tailored to giving the facts. Exactly, Nancy, that`s standard operating procedure.

GRACE: OK, what about it, Alan Ripka?

RIPKA: Well, I`ll tell you right now, this could have been prevented, should have been prevented. And there`s going to be a civil lawsuit against this county and against this city because they knew what was going on and didn`t do anything about it.

And if I tried this case --

GRACE: Well, I`ve got to tell you this much. A civil lawsuit by whom? Because her parents are in it up to their nose. I guess the grandmother down in Australia. She had a happy life until they jerked her away from her grandmother.

Weigh-in, Peter Odom.

P. ODOM: Nancy, you see this time and time again. The --

GRACE: No, I don`t. I do not see dogs hitting on a wood chipper over and over again.

P. ODOM: Listen to me. The child protection authorities don`t work together with the police in coordinating the efforts. This might well have been prevented had the authorities spoken to each other. They didn`t. Hence we have a wood chip.

GRACE: Put him up. Put him up. Now I`m seeing a defense starting to form. Let`s blame DFACS. Sure. They dropped the ball. They are complicit in this whole thing. But trust me they did not kill Zahra.

Back out to the lines, Sheila. Are you with me, Sheila?

SHEILA, CALLER: Yes.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

SHEILA: Hi. Yes. Our poor children. They just don`t have anyone to count on in this day and time, do they?

GRACE: No, they don`t.

SHEILA: My question is, OK. If the dog sniffed out the wood chipper -- OK, can`t they test it for DNA or see where they may have --

GRACE: Good question. Sheryl McCollum, you`re the cold case analyst.

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Sheila, they`ll not only going to be able to do that, they`re going to take it apart and I`ll tell you what they`re going to look for. They`re going to look for something like a tooth, something that could be stuck in there that they can test DNA for.

And Sheila, I want to say something else. Children do have somebody to count on. They`ve got Nancy Grace and everybody else in this studio tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHRA BAKER, MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD: Better than without them. So I can actually hear more than without my hearing aid.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: There is so much I want to talk to you about, about little Zahra. But I`ve got to tell you about this missing little 11-year-old boy. His name is Lok Marcellay.

Out to Alexis Weed, give me the download and give it to me fast.

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK, Nancy. This 11-year-old boy, a Portland boy, he was living with his paternal grandmother. He was last seen getting off of his school bus at his regular stop right in front of the grandmother`s home at 2:15 on Tuesday.

And he was reported missing at 5:00 in the afternoon. Police are telling us that it`s the mother -- Lok`s mother -- and the mother`s boyfriend who abducted Lok and ran off with him to Washington and the mother has been arrested since that time, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, isn`t it true that custody was jerked away from her? I`m sure there`s a reason.

WEED: Right, Nancy. We`ve talked to police. They have not told us the reason why she lost custody. That is still a question tonight.

GRACE: Everybody, take a look at Lok Marcellay, he is only 11 years old, 4`7", 80 pounds, Native American, shoulder-length black hair, always wears these glasses.

Barbara in Virginia. Hi, Barbara, what`s your question?

BARBARA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Well, I would like to know why the boyfriend abducted the little boy.

GRACE: You know what? I think the boyfriend was with the mom. Alexis, isn`t that right?

WEED: That`s right, Nancy. The boyfriend and the mother were said to have been together. They traveled from Portland to Washington and also there have been a number of sightings.

Police say they have confirmed sightings of the mother and the boyfriend in this state now since of course the mother has been arrested but they do believe that the boyfriend is still with this little boy.

GRACE: The tip line, 503-823-4357, 503-823-4357.

We`ve got to stop and remember Army Private 1st Class Anthony Mazzarella, 22, Missouri, killed Iraq. Decorated with the National Defense Medal, Iraqi Campaign medal, Global War on Terrorism medal, Combat Action badge, Bronze Star.

Loved music, art, guitar. Always remembered for his sense of humor and love of life. Leaves behind father Michael, brother Nicholas.

Anthony Mazzarella, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you and a special good night, South Carolina friend, Kathy, and Tennessee friend Martha.

And congratulations to our show`s superstar Marlaina. She came with me nearly several years ago from CourtTV. Just engaged to Mr. Right, Eric Pierce.

And happy birthday to superstar Brett celebrating one-year anniversary with his beautiful wife Katrina.

And last but not least happy birthday to my brother Mackie. I love you.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END