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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Oil Spill Threatens Gulf Coast; Immigration Firestorm
Aired April 30, 2010 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, breaking news and burning questions, with crude now coming ashore in Louisiana. Did the oil company BP not take enough steps to have prevented this? And did the government fail to enforce safety provisions, then fail to act fast enough when the oil rig blew? There's plenty of allegations, and now some early answers as well. We're "Keeping Them Honest."
"Digging Deeper": What is the impact of all this, especially on the seafood and anyone who eats it? I will have your medical bottom line.
Also, some more breaking news: a shooting in Arizona. A suspected illegal immigrant is involved, potentially, here. This is as the state makes some late changes to the new immigration law and a cop sues to block it.
There's a lot happening on the border tonight, and none of it is over yet.
First up, though, the breaking news: another state, Alabama, declaring an oil spill emergency, and an early sign of what in and the Louisiana Gulf Coast could be dealing with for some years to come.
I want to show you some pictures we got in of an early victim. The feathers of this bird are supposed to be all white, a doctor at Tri-State Bird Rescue and Research helping clean it up. The pink stuff that they're shooting into its beak, by the way, that's -- that's Pepto-Bismol. That's in case the bird swallowed any oil.
Bear in mind, these may be the first of many such images to come. The spill, more than 100 miles across, is threatening some of the most delicate nature preserves and richest coastal fisheries, really, anywhere in the country.
Today, shrimp and oyster fishermen began getting hazmat training to work in the cleanup effort. Now defending the coastline, nearly a quarter million feet of floating booms -- look at those -- to contain the oil. The wind right now is blowing directly onshore. Forecasters, though, saying it could swing around tomorrow, taking some of that oil back out to sea.
There are some other late developments as well, the Pentagon approving Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal's request to mobilize 6,000 National Guard troops. A top-level crisis meeting attended by Defense Secretary Gates and other Cabinet secretaries are dealing with this right now. A lot of -- a lot of action going on, but also some serious allegations aimed at the federal -- at the federal response overall and at the oil company BP.
Joe Johns is "Keeping Them Honest."
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The search for who to blame has already begun, and, for many, you don't to have look very far. BP is getting slammed, not only for the accident -- what caused it still unknown -- but also for how it responded.
A lawyer who has already filed a class-action lawsuit against BP for negligence says the company led first-responders to think this wasn't going to be that bad.
DANIEL BECNEL, ATTORNEY: You can't blame the government officials. They were all there ready to work. First-responders were there. BP told them that: "We got it under control. We have it capped. And people left."
(on camera): As to the cause, the best they can do right now is talk about the piece of equipment that obviously didn't work. Tony Hayward, the CEO, said a device called the blowout preventer -- these are his words -- is the ultimate failsafe mechanism, and, for whatever reason, it failed to operate. He blames another company which owns the equipment that failed and operated the rig.
TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP GROUP: The responsibility for safety on the drilling rig is with Transocean. It is their rig, their equipment, their people, their systems, their safety processes.
JOHNS (voice-over): Transocean won't comment, citing a federal investigation.
"Keeping Them Honest," there are other issues that point not only at BP, but also at the entire industry, as well as the government.
Here's why. A device called an acoustic valve that is relatively cheap by oil industry standards might have shut down the rig and prevented the massive leak. Other countries like Brazil and Norway require it, but not here, in part because the oil industry lobbied against it.
BECNEL: It wasn't very expensive. Everywhere else in the world, they have it. We don't have it in the United States. And it was about a $500,000 device on a rig that would have saved lives and billions of dollars in this event.
JOHNS: It doesn't help BP that it has been connected with other oil spills and more disastrous mishaps, including the massive explosion at a Texas refinery five years ago that killed 15 workers.
But that leads to a larger point. Critics say regulators looked the other way and Congress allowed the industry to help write industry-friendly rules.
ZACH CORRIGAN, SENIOR STAFF ATTORNEY, FOOD AND WATER WATCH: It is a shared responsibility. Ultimately, it is the regulators who need to be regulating and making sure that they're protecting the public. It is the oil companies who not only have to have safe equipment, but have to have a culture of safety. And they have to be willing to have safety equipment and strong rules to protect the public.
In the last 10 years, the oil industry has done nothing but fight to have its own rules in place and enforce its own rules, regardless of the impacts to the public.
JOHNS: And now, as the job of assigning blame begins, the industry and the regulators will take a hard look at all the things they did and did not do to wind up with what may be the second worst environmental disaster in U.S. history, and it is still getting worse.
Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.
GUPTA: All right. Let -- let's talk more about this. Let's talk about accountability specifically for the ongoing disaster. And let's also not forget something else, the 11 deaths in the initial explosion.
Joining us, CNN contributor Retired General Russel Honore, and historian Douglas Brinkley.
General Honore, you will recall, took charge of the rescue and relief work during Hurricane Katrina. Doug Brinkley, professor Brinkley, has written eloquently about President Theodore Roosevelt, who established one of the wildlife preserves now in harm's way.
Doug, thanks for joining us again.
You and I had a chance to talk about this a little bit last night. You have been following the story very closely. BP is going to be held responsible, according to the president. The company is going to pay damages, we have heard as well, to people impacted by the spill.
Is everyone on the same page here, or do you think that, when it comes time to pay, the bills start coming in, that things may escalate?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, things will escalate.
There is a blame game going on. But British Petroleum has done nothing since this happened of trying to shift attention from itself. They could have called out immediately that this was a bigger disaster than it was. Tony Hayward has constantly been trying to get the blame off BP.
You just heard him a minute ago. Where is the compassion? I remember, when Bill Ford Jr. was the president of Ford Motor. When a plant blew up at the Rouge, he was at the site. He was in his pajamas at night. He was hands-on.
BP is not educating the public anywhere in the world about this event. They have been doing anything but -- but that. They're obfuscating. They're blame -- putting the blame. They have shown really no emotive publicly capacity to help the people of Louisiana and Mississippi.
I think it is one of the worst corporate responses to a disaster in history.
GUPTA: I mean, if they were just -- Doug, if they were simply just more compassionate, a little bit more transparent, I mean, would that solve some of the problems you're talking about?
BRINKLEY: No, it wouldn't solve it, but wouldn't it help? Wouldn't it care? Instead, it was quoted in "The New York Times," the CEO of BP's first view was, "Why did this happen to us?" meaning "my corporate culture."
BRINKLEY: Well, what about the people of Louisiana?
BRINKLEY: They're being affected by it.
GUPTA: Well, General, you lived through Hurricane Katrina. We all watched you, certainly at that time. You say President Obama should declare this a national disaster.
Give us a little bit of perspective. In terms of impact, is this on par with Hurricane Katrina?
LIEUTENANT GENERAL RUSSEL HONORE (RET.), CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it will -- it has the potential to play out that way, Anderson (sic).
Right now, it is listed as a national significant event, which is -- in the past, has been associated with security events. Like, the inauguration we saw last was a national -- was a significant event.
When we're talking about disaster response, generally, normally, usually, generally, when it reached the level of potential, as well as what we see unfolding now with oil hitting the Gulf Coast, the president would execute -- or would declare a presidential declaration, which would -- to give all federal forces, as well as the governors, the authority to execute the resources that are required to get the job done in recovery and response.
In this case, the push is to give this to BP, a company that's failed in the response up to this point and had equipment failure. I think they have got their hands full trying to cap that well. And this -- this is why we have our government... (CROSSTALK)
HONORE: ... and FEMA to respond to these. And that's what we should be using, along with our Coast Guard.
GUPTA: And we're going to talk about some specifics in terms of what people should be doing.
Professor, General, please stay with us. We are going to talk more after the break.
The live chat is up and running as well, AC360.com. Please join in the conversation.
Also, Sarah Palin, do you remember her words, drill, baby, drill? Those were spoken during the campaign. Does she still believe it? Stay tuned.
Plus, the impact on your health if you live on the Gulf Coast or love to eat the seafood that comes from it.
ANNOUNCER: Recently on 360: Michael Lewis, Dr. Phil, Demi Moore, Douglas Brinkley, Shakira.
You don't to have miss the "Big 360 Interviews." Set your DVR for A.C. 360.
GUPTA: And updating on our breaking news now: Alabama joining Louisiana, declaring a state of emergency, as that massive oil slick continues ashore, forecasters anticipating a break in the weather, though, a shift in wind direction tomorrow that might, just might keep, some of the spill away from land.
Continuing the conversation about all this especially accountability, "Keeping Them Honest" with retired General Russel Honore and historian Douglas Brinkley.
Doug, I want to show you something. Sarah Palin posted something on her Facebook page today. I don't know if you saw this, but I want to read you a quick quote. She wrote this. It says: "No human endeavor is ever without risk, whether it is sending a man to the moon or extracting the necessary resources to fuel of civilization. I continue to believe in it because increased domestic oil production will make us a more secure, prosperous and peaceful nation."
And, before you answer, Doug, to be fair, she also said that any country found to be negligent should be held accountable.
Is she making a fair argument?
BRINKLEY: No. She -- Sarah Palin has been a mouthpiece for the oil industry in Alaska. In fact, Todd Palin worked for British Petroleum for a long time.
BRINKLEY: BP had the big oil spill. Anybody can look it up online. And the -- it ended up pouring hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil into the Arctic.
BRINKLEY: And that -- what is happening now is an attempt to drill in ANWR. And when people say, drill, baby, drill, it is taking a wildlife refuge that Dwight Eisenhower created 50 years ago this year and try to drill in it.
What President Obama needs to do, and I know Interior has been looking at, is to create national wildlife monument and do permanent protection for the wildlife in Alaska, because the birds up in ANWR come south. And this is going to be a devastating event for the wildlife, because all of these birds fly down to the Mississippi flyway into these offshore islands that we're going to be seeing.
You showed one bird picture. And there are many more to come.
GUPTA: And I tell you, in fact, we -- I don't know if you saw this at the beginning of the show, professor. We had some pictures of the birds, actually, some of them already being affected by the oil. Their feathers are supposed to be very white, but, obviously, they're really affected by this quite a bit. And we're going to see a lot more images.
But picking up on the point you made, General, as someone with such strong roots in Louisiana, like you, do you accept offshore oil drilling as something that's necessary, or would you like to see it scaled back?
HONORE: I would like to see it better protected.
We need a regulatory commission with the empowerment like we have that regulate nuclear power plants, because, when we have a disaster in the Gulf, as we see this one unfold, you can't take it back. So, we need the systems with checks, double-checks, and we need some national research centers focused on how we make that industry safe.
And, as was presented earlier in the early part of the program, we're now finding out that shortcuts may have been taken in the safety valves that are being used.
HONORE: That has to work. And then the safety valve has to have a backup to it.
I don't think we can wean ourselves off that oil at this point in time, but it has to be made safer and regulated. GUPTA: And talking about domestic oil production, specifically, Doug, as you know, President Obama restated his commitment to domestic energy production today.
The political path going forward is not going to be easy, of course, but what do you think about that? What do you -- how do you see this playing out?
BRINKLEY: Well, only 6 ix percent of Americans' oil is coming from offshore, but a lot of our future oil is offshore.
I think we have got to make a difference between BP negligence and offshore drilling. It can be done safely. It is being done off the coast of Norway or Brazil and other places. And, so, let's not go after an entire offshore industry.
This has been a big problem with British Petroleum in Alaska, in the Arctic, and now in the Gulf of Mexico. This is their third major disaster in the United States from a foreign company over the last five years.
BRINKLEY: And that's where you're saying who to hold accountable. There are going to be other companies that BP farmed things out to, but that petroleum company has been grossly negligent in both Alaska and now the Gulf of Mexico.
GUPTA: And, moving forward, General, I mean, now what needs to be done? Let's say you have all the resources to try and clean -- clean this up and try to protect the Gulf as much as possible. What are your fellow Louisiana residents saying? What does the response need to be at this point?
HONORE: Mm-hmm. Yes, I'm headed down to Plaquemines Parish tomorrow morning.
And the word I'm getting back, Anderson (sic), from fishermen in that area is -- and I live here now in Louisiana -- is that they're looking at a devastating impact on their shrimping industry. As you know, shrimp skim the water. They are looking at a lot of them at the height of the crop will be killed by this event.
And the long-term impact on our wildlife in that area, while Katrina was a human tragedy, this will be a tragedy of wildlife and fishery that could take years to come back from, once we have figured out how to get this oil off the...
HONORE: ... soggy Gulf Coast of Louisiana.
GUPTA: That's right.
HONORE: This is not a rock-based formation. This thing will absorb in there and will kill the grasses that are protecting the coastline.
GUPTA: And we learned after the spill of Valdez, that, obviously, the oil can stick around for a long time.
This is a developing story. We're going to stay with it.
General Russel Honore, Douglas Brinkley, thanks so much for joining us.
BRINKLEY: Yes. .
GUPTA: It is already the second worst oil spill in American history. You probably know that by now. And what we have been seeing is bad enough, but now a secret government memo paints an even grimmer picture. The document got out.
More now on it and the race to prevent a worst-case scenario.
Tom Foreman is "Digging Deeper." He joins us now.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Sanjay.
"The Mobile Press-Register" has published a leaked memo from federal officials that is quite alarming. It says, in a worst-case scenario, the leaking pipe could rupture and fail entirely, causing an underwater gusher of oil, releasing millions of gallons a day, worst- case scenario, but they are writing about it. They are talking about it.
That's why the race to seal the leak out in here is so critical right now, so urgent. Let's look at the enormous challenges that are being faced in this challenge as we put this out this way.
First, location. Let's travel south from up here on the relatively shallow waters of the Continental Shelf, until the seabed plunges down to where this leak is. It is pitch black even at high noon here. There is no way you are going to see anything.
And I can bring out some video here that was taken some years ago, not terribly long ago, a little bit further on the Texas coast of the area. You get an idea that, even down at this level, with the brightest lights possible, you are going to only see a few feet in the distance.
Those are the conditions that they have to work in. The pressure here is about one ton per square inch. So, you can see why, in this sort of area, what they have been using to do all of this is robotic subs to try to do the work in here.
And what they're dealing with is, right now, this thing we have been talking about so much, this gigantic shutoff device that is sitting on top of the wellhead. Here's some video of what they're trying to do with these subs down there.
FOREMAN: They're trying to get this to actually reach up with robotic arms and turn these valves in here, and get this thing to shut down. But they have been doing that for days now with four different subs. And they still haven't had any luck at that.
They're dealing with currents from above, limited vision, of course, if you're in a sub down here that you're controlling remotely, and, of course, a mile of cable up to the surface. So far, Sanjay, that just has not worked.
GUPTA: Yes. And I have heard some of these types of techniques have worked in the past, but this is deeper simply than in the past.
And, also, part of the problem, Tom, I guess is the -- and this is a lot of pressure of oil just gushing out of the pipe.
FOREMAN: Absolutely. This is an enormous amount of pressure.
When you think about this, one federal official said that this is like a volcano down here. It's not on fire, but that kind of pressure is coming out of here. So, you have all this coming out of this area. They're trying to control it. They're worried because there are bits of gravel and sand in that torrent of oil.
And, if there is a kink in this pipe, a bend somewhere up in here, that could grind away at it, and that is what could make it tear loose. Then you might lose the whole wellhead.
FOREMAN: And then you would have completely out-of-control flow there. That's the problem.
As one LSU scientist told me, this is really like a small volcano, and you know those aren't easily stopped, Sanjay.
GUPTA: That is very frightening, to think about, what you just showed at the end.
So, what are -- what else are they trying? I heard this idea of an underwater dome.
FOREMAN: Yes. This is...
GUPTA: Is that still in the works?
FOREMAN: Absolutely. This is still -- NOAA says that such an underwater collector is being constructed.
Now, it has been very difficult for us to get any real precise details on how big this would be or exactly how it would work. Really, all we can talk about is the theory here. What they're talking about is some kind of a collection device that essentially would sit above the target here, so that, as this enormous torrent of fuel comes blasting out here, you can't stop it here. It is simply too powerful right here.
But, if you let it disperse just a bit, so that it gets a little bit softer, then you come in with something like this, and it starts sucking it up, in effect, you avoid the pressure issue. You take it up to the surface, where it is pumped into a barge, and maybe you can handle it this way.
It has never been done at this depth before, but, with the clock ticking, it is emerging as possibly the best hope for containment sooner, rather than later. And every day, Sanjay, the danger gets worse.
And I want to ask you a question about that, speaking of all of this.
FOREMAN: People onshore are now, to some degree, as I understand it, reporting that they can smell some of the oil in some places.
FOREMAN: How soon is this pollution a risk to people there?
GUPTA: Well, it's interesting.
I mean, the two biggest concerns are people inhaling this and obviously some sort of surface contact with it. You know, I think, at this point, talking to experts in the area, talking to a lot of hospitals in the area as well, there is really -- there haven't been any reports of any particularly physical harm coming to that, nobody obviously going to the hospitals -- hospitals preparing for things, but that, you know, there is not much for them to possibly do.
If it starts to burn and some of those pollutants get on to the shore area, that could potentially be a problem. But, at this point, I think the larger concern is the concerns that you're talking about as well, Tom, which is the volume of oil getting into that marshland, and eventually making it onshore, human health risks less at this point.
FOREMAN: What about the possibility of contaminated seafood at some point?
GUPTA: Yes, you know, it's -- it's going to be. I mean, there's no question now. Seafood is going to get contaminated. But it is one of these things where it is so obviously contaminated, that it's unlikely to cause, again, human health problems, because it won't be sold, it won't be consumed, most likely.
And a lot of the fishing, Tom, as you and I were talking about last night, including oysters, including shrimp, a lot of that has been halted now. So, they're recognizing this is going to be a problem, but trying to sort of break the link to human health.
FOREMAN: Sure. Sure. And I heard a guy from Baton Rouge yesterday tell me that he is confident that the people in the fisheries in Louisiana, in particular, are so dedicated to getting that part right, that they would not dream of doing it with any contamination, because they know that would create a whole new problem long into the future. So...
GUPTA: That's right, a lot of pressure on them for sure.
We're going to stay with that.
More breaking news when we come back -- one of a string of late new developments in the battle over immigration. What you're looking at here, video of a crime scene in Arizona, a suspected illegal immigrant opening fire on a sheriff's deputy. We will bring you the latest next.
Later, a remarkable conversation I had with four gutsy women. They're fighting breast cancer and battling to change how we view people with the disease. Stay with us.
GUPTA: Still ahead: the 82nd Airborne Division, on the front lines in Afghanistan, taking a well-earned break with Lady Gaga. It's "The Shot." And that's coming up.
But, first, important news we're following.
Tom Foreman joins with us a 360 news and business bulletin -- Tom.
FOREMAN: Thanks, Sanjay.
Deadly tornadoes in Arkansas tonight -- officials with the state's emergency management agency say at least three people have died in Van Buren County near the cities of Scotland and Cleveland. At least 25 people are seriously injured. At least three buildings were destroyed. Officials are still trying to assess the full extent of the damage.
Goldman Sachs CEO and chairman Lloyd Blankfein is fighting back, even as federal prosecutors have opened an investigation into the financial dealings of the embattled Wall Street investment firm.
CNN's Fareed Zakaria talked with Blankfein today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LLOYD BLANKFEIN, CEO, GOLDMAN SACHS: My dad, for most of my life, worked for the post office, which was a terrific job to get, because you couldn't lose your job. But, before he got that job, he had lost his job and I remember -- one of my earliest memories was my own dad being unemployed, and the insecurity I felt.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: And yet, 2007, in the midst of this terrible crisis, you made $68 million. What do you say to Americans who look at that and say -- and gasp?
BLANKFEIN: Well, I would tell you, it was nothing about growing up in it or for those Americans that make -- should make people necessarily apologize for doing well if, in fact, you really are doing well and working honorably and being successful.
I think the big gasps that were done for Wall Street were the gasps that were done for people who did not seem to earn the money that they were getting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: Hmm. All right, Tom, thanks.
And you can see that entire interview, by the way, on "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS." That's this Sunday at 10:00 a.m. and 1:00 Eastern.
Also, a program note for Monday: Victims of a priest who was convicted of molesting children, they tell their story and how then Cardinal Ratzinger, who is now the pope, got involved in this case of sexual abuse.
Here's a preview of Gary Tuchman's report.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man in this car is a convicted child molester. He is also a former Catholic priest. He served time in prison. His abuses cost the church millions in settlement money to his many victims.
STEPHEN KIESLE, FORMER CATHOLIC PRIEST: Obviously, I had an inclination to improper conduct with children.
TUCHMAN: This is Stephen Kiesle. But this story is about the man who was asked to expel him and who resisted, the man who today leads the Catholic Church, Pope Benedict XVI.
In the 1970s, Kiesle was studying to be a priest at this seminary near San Jose. He took this picture of an 11-year-old boy named Bob Starbuddy (ph). Today, Starbuddy (ph) is 52 and has received nearly $1 million from the Diocese of Oakland, California, after what he says were years of molestation by Father Steve, often at the seminary.
(on camera): What would you say to him if you saw him today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) away from me.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Kiesle testified at a deposition in 2005, when many victims sued him in civil court. This is what he said happened in the late '70s, when he was a young priest.
KIESLE: I was accused of improperly touching six boys from the ages of, like, 13 to 15, and pleaded no contest.
TUCHMAN: Kiesle was sentenced to probation. At the time, he also decided he no longer wanted to be a priest.
The bishop of the Oakland Diocese agreed. He said Kiesle needed to go, but Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who is now the pope, signed a letter saying it would not be good for the church.
GUPTA: You can -- and you can see Gary's full report on Monday, "The Pope and the Letter," A.C. 360, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Just ahead tonight: the battle on the border and a fight over Arizona's new immigration law -- some breaking news as well. A sheriff's deputy is shot by a suspected illegal immigrant -- and why another Arizona law enforcement officer is suing to block the new law, why he says he can't enforce it. He is on the front lines. He's also the "Big 360 Interview" tonight.
GUPTA: Tonight, breaking news as the debate over Arizona's new immigration law rages. We're getting some reports now that a deputy patrolling near the border with Mexico was shot by a suspected illegal immigrant reportedly with an AK-47. That's a weapon known to be used by drug traffickers making their way across the border.
Now, the officer has been taken to the hospital. And we'll continue to follow along that story. But, you know, it's sure to stoke the fight over the state's new immigration law which some say invites racial profiling.
Tomorrow, there are going to be protests against the measure like this one yesterday. They're going to be held on at least in 21 states.
Again, critics and there are many, believe it is nothing more than racial profile. But you know what? In a new poll, 39 percent said they support Arizona's law, compared with 30 percent who say they oppose it.
Now, for one sheriff on the front lines, the law is the only way to deal with what he sees is a growing and dangerous problem. He says the issue is simple. It's about keeping people safe. Tonight's "Crime & Punishment" report, here's Casey Wian.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a normal citizen, what do we do? What do we do besides sitting here, you know, worried and wondering and frustrated?
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At a town hall meeting with U.S. Senator John McCain and local police chiefs, one resident addressed the violence from smugglers of illegal immigrants and drugs by proposing a violent solution of his own.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shoot, shovel and shut up. (LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people aren't herded up like cows and horses and driven across the border. They know what they're doing, and they know where they're going. They paid good money to do it.
Why don't we make a few examples and maybe the rest will get the idea that hey, they (EXPLETIVE DELETED) will shoot back?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I understand your passion, but that's not, I think, frankly, in the tradition of America.
WIAN: Casa Grande is the largest city in Pinal County, Arizona. It's more than 100 miles from the Mexican border. Yet the sheriff here estimates 80 percent of the illegal immigrants who enter the United States in Arizona pass through Pinal County. In one month, sheriff's deputies were involved in 64 high-speed pursuits with suspected smugglers of illegal immigrants or drugs.
SHERIFF PAUL BABEU, PINAL COUNTY, AZ: We've seen the tactics change over the past couple months here and it's become increasingly dangerous.
WIAN: Sheriff Paul Babeu has become the voice of the county's exasperated residents. At the state capital --
BABEU: Everybody across America is watching Arizona right now. And we live in this. And the violence is off the chart.
WIAN: At the nation's capital --
BABEU: I wouldn't dare speak for anybody else. But most of us in law enforcement welcome this legislation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is fantastic. I am going to stay.
WIAN: And at the local VFW where he's treated like a celebrity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What part of illegal they don't understand?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I liked you when I first saw you and I even like you more now.
WIAN: Babeu and others here say Arizona's new law is the natural reaction to what they consider the federal government's failure to secure the nation's borders and solve its illegal immigration crisis.
GUPTA: Casey, I believe you're in front of the hospital, is that right, where the deputy who is shot is being treated? Is there any more information on him?
WIAN: Yes, we got some good news, Sanjay. He is resting comfortably. They say he is in good condition.
According to law enforcement sources, he was shot in the left abdomen. They described it as a superficial wound somewhere near the area of his kidney. He was airlifted out of the desert once he was found to a waiting ambulance and brought here to Casa Grande Regional Medical Center. They're not releasing any more information about the deputy, his age, his name, anything like that.
What I can tell you, though, is that he told fellow law enforcement officers during his radio communications with them that he encountered five men. Several of them were armed with long guns. Several of them were armed with handguns and they were carrying marijuana.
This is in an area where we were on patrol with these same deputies earlier in the week. During the time we were on patrol with them, in one shift, in one-third of Pinal County where I am now, they apprehended more than 50 suspected illegal immigrants --
WIAN: -- and 2,000 pounds of marijuana.
GUPTA: It's amazing. I mean, we are seeing some images right here, Casey.
You've been out on patrol with these guys. You know, how tense is it out there? And in light of the shooting, have things become worse?
WIAN: Yes, absolutely. It's very tense. What they say is they used to encounter illegal immigrants. They used to encounter drug smugglers occasionally, but now, all of those groups have become more violent.
The illegal immigrant smugglers, the drug smugglers, they are more often armed. They are more often willing to shoot at the deputies. Deputies have been engage in the many high-speed pursuits where deputies and immigrants have been injured. It's a very tense situation.
And this is all in the backdrop of this new Arizona law cracking down on illegal immigrants. And the deputies here in this county say they need that law to help keep things under control, if you will, because it is getting more violent.
GUPTA: All right, Casey. At least some good news about the deputy there in the hospital. Thanks much for your report.
GUPTA: Thank you.
Next, another Arizona cop. This one is taking on Arizona's new law. He calls it unconstitutional. That's "The Big 360 Interview" ahead.
And later, newsmakers on a mission. That's what they call them. Four journalists united in the fight against cancer -- their battle, their message. That's ahead.
GUPTA: Even as we've been talking about Arizona's immigration law, the law itself is changing. In fact, last night, the state legislature amended the language of the statute. It now says that police can stop suspected illegal immigrants only while enforcing some other law or ordinance. The governor signed that revised bill just a short ago.
Now, enforcing the law is the job of Martin Escobar. He's a veteran police officer in Tucson and he believes the measure is unconstitutional. Yesterday, he filed a lawsuit challenging it. Also, Escobar joined me earlier for "The Big 360 Interview."
GUPTA: You know, I talked to Sheriff Arpaio, who I know you know as well. And it's important to point out that last night, there were some changes that were passed to the law, including restrictions against using ethnicity to have people question immigration status. And also, it seems like from the new language, there has to have been some violation of some sort of ordinance or law for someone to be stopped.
What -- I mean, that seems to address some of the concerns you have. How do you feel about that?
OFFICER MARTIN ESCOBAR, TUCSON POLICE DEPT.: Well, I mean, to me, I haven't read the whole verbiage as far as what was written into it. My attorney, Richard Martinez, is more aware of it than I am as far as what the verbiage was. And basically, what has been explained to me, it's just a cosmetic little feature that's been added on to it. But if you were to break it town into a situation where I'm faced with every night, because I patrol the weekend nights for 15 years -- we go make contact which we have the legal basis to make contact at a residence.
ESCOBAR: How are we going to tell who is here legally at a party where people are visiting family members from Mexico? So, where do we take this next step?
GUPTA: So, you're saying --
GUPTA: You're saying that sort of line for which people might get stopped or, you know, get -- police get called could be a very, very short line. People might jump over that pretty quickly. You know, it's interesting. One of the things that was said to me was that, let's say, you know, someone who is undocumented or illegal has an illness or something and they want to call the hospital or go see a doctor. They may not do that anymore because if they go see the doctor and they can't produce papers, then eventually, they could be detained. Is that true?
ESCOBAR: I can give you examples of my experience on patrol where -- for example, you know, a husband and wife, a relationship, a boyfriend-girlfriend, I've been in situations where a female has been assaulted. And they're in fear of wanting to make a report. The only other reason why we ever got there is the fact that someone else might have called it in or whatever the situation may be. And -- but they were fearful.
I mean, you know, there is a battered woman and fearful of wanting to make contact with us because of the fact of being deported.
ESCOBAR: I mean, how much do we have to take? And how here is a situation where this law is going into effect. I've had contact with people already out in the community and they've been asking me.
It's like, hey, you know, what's going to happen with this? If I end up calling in, and, you know? And I'm still telling them, I'd say, you know what? Just continue to call. I'd say I'm not here to deport you. I'm not immigration.
And that's what is being forced upon us, the immigration status. That is a job for the federal government to do. That's why we have border patrol agents.
ESCOBAR: ICE units and that situation. We control the city as far as the laws that can pertain to that area or the criminal activity that occurs in a common city, talking about domestic violence, talking about loud noise ordinances.
ESCOBAR: Do you know what? I just think it's just too much to take on.
GUPTA: This is a big teal, obviously, the fact of this lawsuit. Could you lose your job over it? And what has been the reaction from other officers you worked with?
ESCOBAR: You know what? I could lose my job for it. But I strongly believe, you know, if it -- if it means costing me my job, for standing up for something what I believe is totally wrong and what I see this job -- this law is, is totally wrong, it's not the way to take care of this problem that we have going on right now.
I'll lose my job. That's fine. You know what? But, honestly, at the end of the day, I know I did a good thing. I did a good thing. I did a good thing.
As far as for the other officers on the force, they feel, they're very supportive of me -- especially officers that work in my division. They've been -- I've been getting text messages. I've been getting calls. So, I got nothing but support, and I know a lot of people, a lot of people, a lot of officers, a lot of fellow officers, feel the same way about this new law.
GUPTA: Officer Escobar, thanks so much.
ESCOBAR: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
GUPTA: And still ahead, my interview with four powerful women all touched by breast cancer. All of them full of fight. Don't even think about brushing them off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: There is a certain undercurrent in the way women are treated in this disease which is very pat on the head -- oh, yes, my dear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: Plus, Sarah Palin's e-mail hackers found guilty on some but not all the charges against him. How much jail time is the former college student looking at? I'll tell you ahead.
GUPTA: We're going to "Up Close" now tonight, a call for action from four amazing women. Each has battled breast cancer.
For one, the fight has just begun. All four also news women.
Cokie Roberts of ABC News and National Public Radio; Deborah Charles with "Reuters"; Jennifer Griffin with FOX News; and Jill Dougherty of CNN.
On June 5th, on the National Mall, they're all going to be running in the 21st annual Susan G. Komen Global Race for the Cure, and they issued a letter urging news colleagues to do the same.
Their letter caught our eye, it made us want to hear more about their personal battles with breast cancer and what they told me was eye-opening.
GUPTA: Cokie, let's start with you. You've been a breast cancer activist. I think that's a fair term, since 1992 --
COKIE ROBERTS, NEWS ANALYST, ABC/NPR: Right. GUPTA: -- which is also long before you yourself were diagnosed. Why? You think of a lot of people who are part of advocacy movements have some sort of personal relationship. What was yours?
ROBERTS: I went into a funeral home here in Washington one awful night and I had a good friend in the room on my left and a good friend in the room on my right. They were one in her late 40s, one in her early 50s. They had left behind nine children between them. They never met their grandchildren.
And it just made me furious. This disease was too much of a scourge. I had dealt with it with way too many people.
And so, I just decided to get mad and get active. And because we get out there and run and wear pink ribbons and drink bottles with pink ribbons on them and all that, people talk about it. They get mammograms. Their detection is early. They live.
GUPTA: I think it's important to discuss, the mammograms. And I was, you know, reporting on this, like a lot of people.
GUPTA: And at the end of the day, you know, basically, the recommendation was made routine mammograms should be done at a later age, a decade later for women. Essentially, they had to put a value on how many mammograms do you have to do to save one life.
ROBERTS: The notion that women are going to be upset by a mammogram, or even by a false negative from a mammogram. What? Good Lordy, Miss Scarlet. You know, we're just such sensitive souls that we can't put up with something like that? I mean, it's insulting.
And so, what you have to assume is -- and even though I know the people involved say it's not the case, that what you -- what they're really putting is a dollar value on it.
GUPTA: Right. I've dealt with this in my own family. And, you know, one of the things that really struck me, Jill, was this family member talked about it. She blamed herself initially -- which was I think the hardest thing for me to hear as a -- as a, you know, loved one. That she really blamed herself.
When you first found out you had breast cancer, what did you think? I mean, what were some of the first thoughts that went through your head?
DOUGHERTY: I was shocked because I didn't think that it could happen to me. You know, I just thought I'm really healthy. I run every day, I don't smoke, I don't drink, my diet is great -- all of this stuff. But there were risk factors that I didn't think about. I mean, I had never had a child, mother with breast cancer, et cetera. I just guess I had never put those together.
So, there was shock. But there was also -- and I think that it's really important what Cokie is talking about. There is a certain undercurrent in the way women are treated in this disease which is very pat on the head -- oh, yes, my dear. And I went through that in looking for a surgeon, where a doctor had told me that I would want reconstructive surgery. When I told him, "Thanks, I don't. My mother, you know, used to play golf and she said they just got in the way of her golf swing."
DOUGHERTY: So, I kind of, you know, I had this approach. And he did not listen to me. And I sat there, and I -- finally, after three times, I said, "I don't think you're listening to me." And he was scratched off the list, my list of who was going to be my surgeon.
ROBERTS: I had experiences where some doctors talked to my husband instead of me.
ROBERTS: And I actually know a lot more about this stuff than my husband does, as he would be quick to say. And they -- you know, it was just -- he was -- he was insulted on my behalf.
GUPTA: Debbie, how about you? I mean, is there anything that you wish you would have known going into this whole thing?
DEBORAH CHARLES, CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: You know, a good thing that I am surprised about. But we end up, we talked about how, you know, we all kind of come together as -- we're all in the same club. They always joke about the club that none of us want to be in. That we're all -- that I've made all these new friends in a weird different way where we can talk about stuff that we can't talk about with anybody else.
That surprised me. I didn't realize there would be this camaraderie that would come out of it. So, a good thing that came out of it all.
GUPTA: And, Jennifer, you're sort of in the throws of this in many ways still. I mean, is there a point where you're done? I mean, is there a point where the doctor says, "You know what, you don't have to worry about this anymore"?
JENNIFER GRIFFIN, NAT'L SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Well, I'd like to be done now but I just had my -- I just had my double mastectomy three weeks ago and I'm still learning how to lift my arms again. I can't quite -- I have no range of motion.
ROBERTS: But look how great she looks.
GRIFFIN: Thank you. I start radiation next week, six weeks of daily radiation. I guess what I would say, and I'm most recent member of this sorority here, is my experience in this last year has been incredibly powerful. And I think, all the advocacy that Komen and women like yourselves have done, I didn't have those experiences with doctors not understanding what I was saying. I had fabulous, mostly female doctors who really got it.
And breast cancer, what I would say to people is, when you're diagnosed, if you're diagnosed, you can get through it. You should exercise every day. You can, you know, eat well. You can -- you can get through it. But you're never done with it.
When I'm starting to come down from that high of, I had 17 rounds of chemo and 5 1/2 months of, you know, chemo every week -- and you're in an adrenaline -- you're in a fight mode.
GRIFFIN: It's hard to come down from that.
GUPTA: As I mentioned, personally, professionally, I'm very passionate about this. I'm glad we got a chance to talk about this.
Cokie Roberts, Jill Dougherty, Deborah Charles and Jennifer Griffin -- thanks so much for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
GUPTA: And next on 360: Protecting Sarah Palin's privacy. The case against her alleged e-mail hacker -- today, the jury has returned its verdict. We'll that have story coming up.
And then taking a bite out of Apple. Meet the guy who pocketed the iPhone prototype and then sold it. We'll introduce you to him after the break.
GUPTA: There's a lot happening tonight and Tom Foreman has been a very busy guy. He's back now with another 360 bulletin -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Sanjay.
Judgment day for the man accused of hacking Sarah Palin's personal e-mail. David Kernell -- guilty in connection with breaking into her Yahoo! account in 2008. The former University of Tennessee student convicted of obstruction of justice cleared on a wire fraud charge though. He faces a maximum of 20 years in prison.
The identity of the person who found and sold the iPhone prototype has been revealed. Twenty-one-year-old Brian Hogan said another customer gave to it him in a California bar that was left behind by an Apple engineer. Hogan sold the iPhone to a Web site that published the information about the prototype.
And, can a nasal spray turn a macho man into a teddy bear? A scientist in Germany who tested a nasal mist containing the female hormone oxytocin said men became more caring and extra cuddly. Oxytocin is released during labor. It's said to heighten emotions and empathy. GUPTA: It could affect the whole Mars and women Venus thing, huh?
FOREMAN: You'll never know.
GUPTA: Time for tonight shot -- American heroes on the frontlines in Afghanistan taking a little break. They have some fun. Take a look.
GUPTA: Lady Gaga, meet guys of the 82nd Airborne Division. This YouTube clip shows the soldiers dancing to the singer's hit. The song is called "Telephone," as you know, Tom. They call it, "The Afghanistan remake."
I kind of like their version, huh?
FOREMAN: Those are some troops who definitely need to come home.
GUPTA: You know, Tom, last night, we had the older gentleman dancing to the rapper Too Short.
GUPTA: Tonight, Lady Gaga. You know what, Tom? You and I, we're hipsters.
FOREMAN: Do you think? Do you think?
GUPTA: I think we are. Yes, I like the music.
FOREMAN: I hope. That would be so nice.
GUPTA: Tom, thanks so much. Thanks so much. Great show.
A lot more ahead, of course, at the top of the hour. Serious stuff including late word of the oil spill now coming ashore.
Stay with us.