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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Final Health Care Bill Approved; Changing the Way Kids Eat; Cold Case of 5 Missing Boys Solved?
Aired March 25, 2010 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, good evening again everyone. Welcome.
Tonight breaking news: now it really is it; the House, late tonight passing the final piece of health care reform. But even as they finish their work, new lawmakers are getting targeted for hate mail and worse. And a war of words is breaking out over who's fanning the flames. We're "Keeping them Honest" tonight.
Also ahead, the "Big 360 Interview"; we're going to have more with celebrity chef Jamie Oliver on America's eating problem and the growing epidemic of childhood obesity. We'll talk to him about what he discovered in America's kitchens and school lunch rooms and how you can eat well for less money than you think.
And later "Crime and Punishment": a fascinating story. Five teenage boys vanished more than 30 years ago. Well, now this cold case is red hot and you'll see how detectives say they have cracked it.
First up tonight, the breaking news: the House passing that package of fixes to the big health care reform bill they passed over the weekend. The changes take out a number of special deals and also keep a number of special deals.
It got approval in the senate earlier today. The House just tonight, a short time ago, a land speed record in a process that has been going on for more than a year. And as you've been seeing, has turned very, very ugly.
We're going get to the ugliness in a moment: the threats, the violence, the finger pointing about who is responsible.
But first let's focus on the breaking news.
Dana Bash is on Capitol Hill tonight with the breaking news. Senior political analyst David Gergen joins us as well.
Dana, certainly a historic moment; give us the latest.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Historic for sure and among Democrats, a sense of relief, a sense of disbelief and I've got to tell you utter exhaustion at what they've gone through and not just for the past year and a half but for many of these Democrats, working on this moment for years and in some cases, decades.
And, you know, this was tough, especially over the past year and a half for these Democrats to get this passed, what was a wall of opposition; Republican opposition, entirely, unanimously, Republicans opposed to this legislation. You see Nancy Pelosi there, she actually was the one who gave the final gavel, appropriately enough, the Speaker, to send this officially and end this, send this to the president's desk.
And I just want to make, also make the point that Democrats obviously are relieved and happy that this is over here in terms of the legislative process but it is just beginning for them, Anderson, because they're going home for a two-week break back in their districts.
For so long --
BASH: -- they have been saying it is time to sell this. Well, now the pressure is on. They've got to sell it politically.
COOPER: David, do the Democrats feel that public sentiment has shifted more in favor of this reform? I mean, we've seen some early poll numbers? Certainly President Obama today seemed kind of, had a spring in his step. And we're going to show some of his comments to our viewers in a moment. I know you just spoke to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi also.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, Anderson. They certainly feel it's moving in their direction. I was in the Capitol just a few moments ago with a group of students from NYU and Harvard. There are Reynolds Foundation and fellows who are visiting.
And Nancy Pelosi kindly came by for a dinner. I spoke to her there. She spoke to the students. And there was this enormous sense of elation on her part, exhaustion, as Dana said.
But a real sense among other Democrats who were there that the numbers are starting to move in their direction. Most polls show that they've gotten about a four or five-point lift out of this so that the opposition, the opponents still outnumber those who are favorable but it's closed the gap some. These next two weeks are critical.
Republicans told me in the Capitol tonight, they're looking forward to going home because they think this issue works in their favor this November. Democrats are bracing to go home and see if they can't move those numbers still more.
COOPER: Dana, with this -- the bill now, the changes, the fixes so-called, what's actually changed? I mean, are all of these special deals still there?
BASH: All of them -- are all of them gone? No. Some of them are still in there. One of the ones that we've been hearing about, the Medicaid help for the State of Louisiana that is still in there because Democrats on both sides of the Capitol thought that after Katrina, that state deserved extra help.
But the big one, the most controversial deal and that was, of course, the Nebraska, giving that state more federal help than any other state for Medicaid. That is now gone. Now every state gets that extra help.
And there are a couple of other things, that so-called "Doughnut Hole" that Democrats keep talking about. It wasn't really fixed or closed until they passed this changes bill and there are some new taxes as well added Medicare tax for unearned income, so about a four percent tax now on investments for people or families making over $250,000 a year.
So there were some pretty significant changes tonight.
COOPER: And David, now that it is done, I mean, do -- does the Republican strategy change at all or do they I mean -- do they have a strategy now or is it sort of an ad hoc process? They're just sort of, didn't expect to lose it and now they're just kind of doing whatever they can?
GERGEN: Well, I think they knew they were likely to lose it, Anderson. But they are trying to sort it out. And I think, this next two weeks are going to be pretty important. And it's going to be -- when Congress goes home and has -- these people have a chance to talk to constituents and get a sense of the mood, the Republicans sense there's a lot of opposition still and it feels an enormous amount of intensity among the opponents.
They'll get a better sense of what they can come back and do. I think we're not going to know the Republican strategy until after this recess -- this two-week recess is over.
Meanwhile, the Democrats, the White House is very anxious not to sit back on its haunches and just proclaim victory. They know that last summer when they did that, when they were complacent, the Republicans stuffed it to them and the tide changed as you know in public opinion last summer.
So they want to be very aggressive for President Obama in Iowa today as an example. They're going to try to be very aggressive these next two weeks in getting their side of the story out.
COOPER: Yes, I want to get that -- President Obama today in Iowa cued up. Because it's interesting to see some of the things he said. David Gergen, we're going to talk to you shortly and Dana Bash as well.
Time now for our nightly "Keeping them Honest" report: we're focusing tonight on the threats and the acts of violence that have surrounded these votes and the war of words today over who's trying to score political points over the threats and acts of violence, political points.
David mentioned to you before the final vote was cast, President Obama was on the road in Iowa City selling the law and making light of a lot of the fuss. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They called the passage of this bill, Armageddon -- Armageddon, end of freedom as we know it. So after I signed the bill, I looked around to see if there were any asteroids falling or -- some cracks opening up in the earth.
It turned out, it was a nice day. Birds were chirping, folks were strolling down the mall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There were new pieces of ugliness today. Someone nailed white powder and a threatening note to New York Democrat Anthony Weiner's district office, Minnesota Congresswoman Betty McCollum an open condom and a vulgar message.
Republicans are saying however, the Democrat are basically using these kinds of threats made by fringe extremists to bludgeon the Republicans.
So what's the truth? Well, Dana Bash tonight is "Keeping them Honest".
BASH (voice-over): The second ranking House Republican came to the cameras to say he's been the target of violence, too.
REP. ERIC CANTOR (R), MINORITY WHIP: A bullet was shot through the window of my campaign office in Richmond this week and I've received threatening e-mails. But I will not release them because I believe such actions will only encourage more to be sent. BASH: The police in Richmond, Virginia later said a preliminary investigation shows the bullet wasn't fired directly at his building, but into the air hitting a window on the way down. But the main reason Cantor spoke out was to accuse Democrats of using threats of violence for political gain.
CANTOR: I have deep concerns that some, DCCC Chairman, Chris Van Hollen and DNC Chairman Tim Kaine in particular are dangerously fanning the flames by suggesting -- suggesting that these incidents be used as a political weapon.
BASH: What makes you say it's political?
Cantor would not answer questions about his accusation. But "Keeping them Honest", Democratic leaders have been going after Republicans saying they're inciting threats against Democrats.
DNC Chairman Tim Kaine issued a statement yesterday saying, "Republican leaders are themselves engaging in actions and rhetoric that previously would have been limited to fringe elements of the Republican Party." And when it comes to using security for political gain, there is this. Organizing for America, President Obama's political organization, sent this e-mail today trying to raise money off threats against fellow Democrats. Specifically citing an incident with House Democrat Tom Perriello and asking for political donations.
Meanwhile, keeping Republicans honest, the House GOP leaders says this --
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: The violence and threats are unacceptable. They have no place in a political debate.
BASH: But he refused to back down from comments he's made that Democrats say stokes violent fires.
BOEHNER: Hell no, you haven't.
BASH: Boehner was quoted as calling Democrat Steve Driehaus a quote, "dead man" for voting yes on health care. Driehaus says he understood it was political, but insists others may not.
REP. STEVE DRIEHAUS (D), OHIO: Well, it's not how I take it. It's how somebody back home or somebody in another state might take it. We've got death threats coming into our offices, coming into other offices of members of Congress.
BASH (on camera): Given what's going on, do you may be think that those words might have been taken out of context?
BOEHNER: No I don't think so --
BASH: He said that it could have incited things.
BOEHNER: Listen, no one saw this quote of mine, in this publication until Mr. Driehaus and others made a public issue of it.
COOPER: Dana, aside from the politics -- we touched on them a second ago -- there were reports of some very real threats toward lawmakers today.
BASH: That's right. You mentioned one earlier. And that is white powder sent to the office in New York of Anthony Weiner, a Congressman from New York. He says today that there were actually -- there's a threatening letter along with that.
And that what happened was -- staff in his office they had to actually give over their clothes. They had to wear protective clothing. And this afternoon, he actually said that initial tests showed it was not a biological agent that went to his office but he's still awaiting final confirmation from an NYPD.
Now, it is not just Democrats who are getting threats. We also got new information about a Republican, Jean Schmidt of Ohio. She got some pretty intense voicemails at her office. Take a listen. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'm glad the president passed health care. Yes. Funky (EXPLETIVE DELETED) racists. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Republicans hate that, don't you? Jean Schmidt, when you got hit by that car, you should've broke your back. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) You and Boehner (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Speaker Mitch McConnell all you racists (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Republicans.
Why don't you just change your party name to racist? Because if one of those (EXPLETIVE DELETED) TEA baggers had spit on me, I'd have shot them in face with my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) 9 millimeter.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BASH: Now, it's unclear exactly how many incidents have been reported, Anderson, from lawmakers. I talked to a law enforcement source earlier who said that they are just trying to sift through the report as they get them.
And you know, yesterday the House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, he said ten or more. I talked to a Democratic source who said it is a lot more, extraordinarily more than ten at this point.
COOPER: Interesting. We're going to continue the conversation about hate politics after the break with David Gergen and John Avlon, author of the book, "Wingnuts".
Let us know what you think. The live chat is up and running at AC360.com.
And later, talking to celebrity chef Jamie Oliver about helping kids in America change the way they eat before it kills them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: With growing obesity rates, some kids will not live as long as their parents.
JAMIE OLIVER, HOST, "JAMIE OLIVER'S FOOD REVOLUTION": This is the first generation where kids are expected to live a shorter life than their parents. Correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Here's a recap of breaking news, the House tonight approving the final piece of health care reform legislation. The final fixes, all that brinksmanship, all that maneuvering passed by the Senate earlier today. President Obama signs the fixes. That is it.
But for some, especially angry opponents of the reform bill, the administration, the IRS, you name it, it is not over. Windows broken, death threats made, some scary stuff and allegations that some are fanning the flames for political gain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: I believe that words have power. They weigh a ton. And they are received differently by people and depending on their -- shall we say emotional state. And we have to take responsibility for words that are said that we do not reject. That we do not reject.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi decrying the threats over health care reform. Her Republican colleague Minority Whip, Eric Cantor today, accusing Democrats of using those threats for political gain. And late today, GOP Chairman Michael Steele issued a statement condemning acts of violence directed at members of Congress.
So let's talk the facts now, let's "Dig Deeper" with senior political analyst David Gergen and John Avlon, Daily Beast senior writer and author of "Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America".
So David, a lot of this, the angry voicemails, the letters, the protests, it does seem like the kind of thing that members of Congress on both sides of the aisle would usually face. I mean, every -- people on TV get these kinds of voicemails and these calls. Do you think this is just kind of the usual stuff or do you think what we're seeing now is unusual?
GERGEN: Well, Anderson, I think you make a good point. And most of Americans don't know that a lot of people in the public get death threats over the Internet or whatever, you know, journalists and others. But I do think that this has reached a new level of intensity beyond what we've normally seen. It is more threatening.
There are members on both sides of the aisle who are genuinely concerned about their families. They've got visitors coming into their homes, their addresses are being put out on the Internet. There is a real chance of bloodshed here.
So both sides have, I think, have -- while they're trying to exploit this politically, can come back to how you do this, but I think both sides have an interest ultimately in calming this down.
COOPER: But you really think there is a chance of bloodshed?
GERGEN: I do. I think there's a chance of an incident -- isolated to be sure but I think there's going to be some wing nut out there on one side or the other of the political aisle or somewhere who is just out in Never-Never Land. A lot of guns out there and I think there's going to be somebody -- I think there's a growing risk that somebody is going to get shot before this is over.
COOPER: John, you wrote the book about wing nuts. You agree with that. JOHN AVLON, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, THE DAILY BEAST: I do. I do, unfortunately. I mean, look, we're playing with fire. We're playing with dynamite when we demonize people who disagree with us.
For a long time we've been ignoring the real costs of using fear and hate to pump up hyper partisanship. But that is what we are seeing. You can only demonize disagreements so much before some unhinged soul takes it an extra step. And that is -- those are the stakes.
I mean the fact that both parties in Congress should be condemning this clearly. The fact that there is an element of abusing this as a political football at all is just ghoulish. And it shows how dysfunctional Washington really has become that they can't condemn in one clear voice an escalation of rhetoric of actions, bricks.
I mean, we're not just talking e-mails and voice messages. We're talking about bricks going through walls, bullets being shot. We've played with these forces before; it doesn't done well.
COOPER: David is it appropriate for -- I mean, the organizing for America which is the president's political team sent out an e-mail fundraising off these threats to Congressional Democrats; Eric Cantor, earlier accusing Democrats of fanning the flames. I mean, does he have a point there? Are politicians trying to kind of score political points with this?
GERGEN: People are trying to score political points. And this fundraising based on this I think is out of bounds but the threats are obviously more out of bounds.
Anderson, earlier tonight I had an interesting conversation with a very wise historian, Jay Winik (ph), you know, he has written an 1865 a best seller about the civil war. He thought a lot about these questions. And he had a wise comment and he said, you know, obviously people have to condemn this in public life. And my hope would be the president would call in the leaders from both sides and they come together to try to calm this down.
But then Jay Winik said something else, once they condemn it, then they all cool it. The more conversation we have about this, the more the leaders talk about it, the more likely it is to inspire some nut out there to pick up a gun or to pick up a knife or whatever it is and try and work mayhem. So in some ways, the notion is condemn it and then cool it.
COOPER: That is the advice John, you get from security consultants. I mean, when I've had situations like this, you know, you just don't really talk much about it. Because you know, if it's not the person themselves who gets excited that they're being mentioned or having their voice message played, it's somebody else who then wants to get attention as well.
AVLON: But I do think we do need to confront extremism from wherever it comes before it starts piling into violence. We have a situation right now, where the extremes have been subtly encouraged by both parties at different times for political gain.
And that has an effect. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. And we've entered and had a relative period of innocence in our politics actually with an escalation of rhetoric without elevation to actual violence. But we need to be aware of the forces we're playing with. They can easily get out of control.
And that's why we should both condemn the cycle we've gotten into of pumping up fear and hate in the service of hyper partisanship and then confront it directly before it escalates out of control.
COOPER: All right, we've got to leave it there. John Avlon and David Gergen, thank you. I appreciate your perspectives.
GERGEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Up next tonight, yet another priest sex scandal, this one in Wisconsin with alleged ties to the Pope back when he was the church's chief law enforcer. Did he fail to do his job? We'll look at that.
And later, how police say they solved the disappearance of five boys. It's just a stunning case, a 30-year-old cold case. Police say they have now solved it. We'll explain what happened.
COOPER: Police in Newark, New Jersey say they have cracked the city's oldest cold case. Tonight what they say happened to five teen friends who vanished one summer night 32 years ago. We'll have that in a moment.
But first some of the other stories we're following. Christine Romans has the "360 Business Bulletin" -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, in an audio tape purportedly made by Osama bin Laden and airing today in Al Jazeera, the al Qaeda leader threatened to kill any Americans captured by al Qaeda if the U.S. government executes alleged 9/11 master mind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who's facing trial in Federal court.
The Vatican says it didn't know about an American priest believed to have molested as many as 200 boys at a school for the deaf in Wisconsin; didn't know until 20 years after civil authorities investigated then dropped the case. The Vatican issued the statement in response to a "New York Times" report alleging that top church officials, including the future Pope Benedict, failed to discipline or defrock the priest -- defrock the priest despite years of complaints.
The U.S. Senate voted today to change the way student loans are made. Under the plan, nearly all federally-backed student loans would come straight from the government, cutting out bank middle men who collect subsidies to make the same loans. The change was part of the health care reconciliation bill, which the House approved tonight.
And take a look at this dash cam video, Anderson. That's Winston, a mixed breed dog who escaped from his yard and went ballistic. He ripped the front bumper right off the police cruiser. Winston has spent the last week and a half at a Chattanooga Animal Center but today he was reunited with his owners.
The judge ordered them to take Winston to obedience classes. And they need to secure their fence from now on, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, they need to get like a steel fence, I think. But very cute dog.
ROMANS: Would you like your dog to be in that obedience class with that one? He must be a bad influence.
COOPER: What a cute dog. I love pit bulls.
COOPER: All right. Time for our "Beat 360" winners.
And it's kind of a bizarre one. It's our daily challenge to viewers, a chance to come up with a caption better than the one we can come up with for a photo that we put on the blog every day.
So, tonight's photo is none other than Larry King -- Larry King posted this photo to his Twitter account with the description, "Me driving around with Snoop Dogg."
Yes, that's right.
Our staff winner tonight is our intern Amanda, her caption: "Snoop D-O-double Gizzle in the hizzle with Larry Kizzle."
Very good, Amanda.
The viewer winner is David. His caption: "Who said cornrows and suspenders don't look good together?"
COOPER: David, certainly not us.
Your "Beat 360" T-shirt is on the way. Congratulations.
Coming up next: saving America's kids. I sat down with celebrity chef Jamie Oliver and talked about his new mission: stopping childhood obesity and changing the way American kids eat food.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVER: Who knows what this is?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Potatoes.
OLIVER: Potatoes? So, you think these are potatoes? They're not potatoes, though.
COOPER: To see kids who don't know what a tomato is, is pretty scary.
OLIVER: Yes. And, the other clip as well, they didn't know what a potato was. But as soon as you said fries, French fries, they're all over it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also ahead tonight, will marijuana soon be legal? Voters in one state will get to decide -- details on that ahead.
COOPER: This week we've been bringing you our series, "Kids in Peril, Obesity in America". And tonight's "Big 360 Interview" is part of the series. Celebrity chef and bestselling author Jamie Oliver has made it his mission to change the way his homeland England eats and now he's trying to do the same in America.
Take a look
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVER: This is the fat consumed by the entire school for one year. This is real fat; disgusting, slippery, saturated fat. Come feel it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Where do you get a big vat of fat? Anyway, that clip was from his new television series, "Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution". It was shot in Huntington, West Virginia, which has one of the highest obesity rates in America.
Oliver wanted to show -- see what Americans eat and try to help Americans eat healthier food. What he found, as you'll soon see, is pretty stunning.
Here's the interview.
COOPER: It's interesting because -- I mean the United States is obsessed with beauty, obsessed with fitness. You see gyms, you see pictures of celebrities on magazines and everyone looks fit and trim. And yet there is this huge problem with obesity in the United States. You call it one of the unhealthiest countries in the world.
OLIVER: I think there is a lot of evidence to suggest it is way up there. Without question, what's happened in the last 40 years is we've gone from basically local and fresh diet to basically pretty much completely processed diet.
COOPER: But you know, I mean, a lot of people talk about eating organic or buying local. All that stuff, doesn't that just cost a lot more money?
OLIVER: Well, it depends how you're set up. I mean I think possibly at this stage of the game, it might well do. But, you know, my only experience with local food is that it is in season at its best, better for you and cheaper. And you're helping your local community and putting a smile on a local person's face.
So I don't think there is -- I think generally, the lacking thing, the big thing is money and time. And if you have the knowledge of cooking, basic cooking, neither of those count; if you can cook and you haven't got much money, not a problem. If you can cook and you have no time, not a problem; there's a million recipes for 10, 15, 20 minutes.
COOPER: So what sort of foods are you talking about that you recommend for families?
OLIVER: We've got a minute -- I can't -- you know, for where we are at the moment, I kind of call it ten recipes to save your life. And really it's a range of things from, you know, a basic stew that can be dunked (ph) and (INAUDIBLE) depending whether it is chicken or pork or beef or lamb or whatever you can get; a good stew that can be turned into all sorts of different things. Stir fry, pasta dishes, you know ways of loving and then actually enjoying salads or veggies, soups, stuff like that.
I mean basic stuff. No rocket science but good, sumptuous, tasty stuff. And I think, you know, for me, the big problem, the big drought really is in knowledge. And it's the same in England. So it is not an English boy coming over here knowing better and poking a finger. It is exactly the same in England.
And as a matter of fact --
COOPER: Have you gotten that? Have you gotten some people saying like, why are you coming over here calling the United States unhealthy?
OLIVER: Of course, yes.
I don't think it is me calling the United States unhealthy. I think the United States is in a place where it calls itself unhealthy. And I think it knows it. I think America is sick of it.
COOPER: It's interesting though because one of the big things you did in England was encourage and really pressure the British government to change the food that they serve to kids in schools. And in your TV show here, you've actually gone around to schools in the United States.
I want to show our viewers just some of what you found in talking to kids in schools.
OLIVER: Yes. Cool.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVER: We're going to do a little test. Right. Who knows what this is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Potatoes.
OLIVER: Potatoes? So you think these are potatoes? Not potatoes, though.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.
OLIVER: Do you know what that is? Do you know what that is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Broccoli.
OLIVER: What about this? Our good old friend. Do you know what this is, honey?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Celery.
OLIVER: No. What do you think it is, darling?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Onion.
OLIVER: Onion, no.
Immediately you get a real clear sense of, do the kids know anything about where food comes from?
Who knows what that is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pear?
OLIVER: A pear? No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A turnip?
Ok. I'm going to give you the first word. Egg --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Egg salad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right. I'm going to say I'm embarrassed. I didn't know what the thing with the stalk was.
OLIVER: A beet. A beet root.
COOPER: That was a beet root.
But I mean to see kids who don't know what a tomato is, is pretty scary.
OLIVER: Yes. And the other clip as well, they didn't know what a potato was. But as soon as you said, you know, fries, French fries, they're all over it.
What we have is this drop in food culture and knowledge. And, of course, then, with the rise of fast food and fast food options, really, the only choice tends to be the bad choice.
And I think, you know, what we've tried to do in this series is, we went to Huntington, West Virginia to tell America's story. And Huntington, West Virginia is 3 percent away from the national average so it is relevant to every town pretty much.
COOPER: Were you surprised by what you found there?
OLIVER: Yes, I was. I was but again, you know, you're talking to someone that's kind of got his hands dirty for seven years in equivalent towns in England.
Celebrity chefs are great and can give you ideas and entertain you but it is really skin on skin that creates magic. It's people teaching people that's magic. That gives you confidence to go buy the beets that you didn't know what they were and use the tops as you would in a salad leaf, or in a greens dish, or peel it and shave it into a salad, or roast it, or bake it, or boil it, or whatever.
COOPER: The rest of my interview with Jamie Oliver is just straight ahead, part two. Jamie did not mince words, especially when it comes to what and how public schools are feeding kids.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVER: We're not treating kids like humans. We're treating -- actually we're treating them like prisoners. Let's be frank. As a matter of fact, prisoners probably, prisoners do get more spent on them than kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later in the program, a three decades old cold case is cracked wide open. This story is just fascinating. Police say they finally know what happened to five teenage boys who disappeared one hot summer night.
COOPER: All right. Part two of the "Big 360 Interview" with Jamie Oliver. His goal to change the way American kids are eating and help them live longer. He certainly has his work cut out for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVER: What did you have for dinner last night?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chicken nuggets.
OLIVER: So you had chicken nuggets for dinner last night. And now you're having them for lunch. Lovely. Cool.
I want to do a little survey. What did you have for dinner last night?
Chicken fingers. Chicken nuggets again.
The fact these kids are having their food for dinner one night and then the same thing for lunch the next day is outrageous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Oliver is taking aim at school cafeterias. He says prisoners have it better than school kids.
Here's the rest of the interview.
COOPER: I want to show you some pictures of some food that -- a mom took some pictures of the food that her child is served at school. This is in Hoboken, New Jersey.
OLIVER: Right. Yes.
COOPER: Let's just show some of those pictures. Chicken nuggets with dark spots on them. Ground beef nachos with fake cheese. Powdered mashed potatoes. Are not we sending kids all the wrong messages in schools by what we're feeding them?
OLIVER: Well, I mean one of the things that's happening is we're kind of -- if you notice on some of those plates, or trays, prison trays, should I say, look barren, some look full. And what you get there is the obsession by having 11 grains a week which means on any one day, you can actually have a mashed potato next to a pasta next to a bread roll. Which obviously, you know carbohydrates get stored as fat unless you're going to burn it off quickly.
Also, there's not -- I mean no stuff there -- you can use things like tacos and stuff like that as vehicles because kids like it. And the mince meat sauce if it's -- you know what I do when I do mine is you just bang it full of veggies. You know, 7, 8, veggies in there: tomato (INAUDIBLE), your meat slow cook it for a couple of hours; cheap to make, very nutritious.
But I mean, I think one of the things that sticks out there is the presentation is scary but also, for me, it's the tray mentality. I know it is efficient but we're not treating kids like humans, we're treating them -- actually we're treating them like prisoners. Let's be frank. And as a matter of fact, prisoners probably -- well, prisoners do get more spent on them than kids.
COOPER: Prisoners get more spent on them than kids.
OLIVER: Yes. Yes. The same back home in England as well; and probably that's because they're grown men and adults. But also, you know, often you find that these are slightly better set up systems.
COOPER: It is interesting though because I mean you talk to parents in your series. They know that what they're giving their kids is not ideal. It's just they feel they don't have the time or they don't have the money.
There's one other clip I just want to show where you're talking to a mom. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVER: Get everything in the middle now. Here's your breakfast. There are those bloody corn dogs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow. Jamie was dumping the food on the table, it was like stunning.
OLIVER: You tell me how you feel looking at this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It's gross.
OLIVER: Let's have a talk. This stuff goes through you and your family's body every week. And I need you to know that this is going to kill your children early. We're talking about 10, 13, 14 years off their life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
OLIVER: And you know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: With growing obesity rates, some kids will not live as long as their parents have.
OLIVER: This is the first generation where kids are expected to live a shorter life than their parents. Correct.
COOPER: They're drinking soda in school, they're having pizza for lunch and stuff, that's normal now.
OLIVER: You know soda is one thing but it is pretty much law to have milk every day, twice a day, pretty much for say elementary school kids. This milk that these kids are drinking has got nearly as much sugar in it as a can of soda.
So I want parents really to get angry and feel empowered to have a very clear opinion about what is right and what is wrong and what they can say and what they can do. And that it's perfectly fine to ask a principal that you want to see the food.
COOPER: Have you ever seen a corn dog before?
OLIVER: I've never seen a corn dog before. Never seen a corn dog, you know. And I've gone on film shoots in L.A. and the stuff they put on taco day is just hideous.
I think ultimately, why is all this important? This is important because the biggest killer in this country is diet-related disease. Whether it is diabetes, whether it's obesity, whether it is heart disease, you know, various cancers and strokes and stuff like that.
Everything has to change. Everything. The main street, the fast food, the supermarkets, the government, the schools, everything has to change. That's why you know, look. Maybe I'm being over emotional about six programs that I've spent six months making. But I think it is a very intimate, heart-warming story that hopefully will make people get angry. And I think anger is good sometimes especially right now.
COOPER: Jamie Oliver, I appreciate you being here.
OLIVER: Thanks very much for having me.
COOPER: You can go to ac 360.com right now for a map of childhood obesity rates by state. You'll also find advice for families on how to prevent kids from becoming obese.
Join the live chat if you want right now at AC360.com. It will be up for a while longer.
Next on the program, the story that we've been looking at now for a couple days: one big city's coldest case is solved or at least police say so. Five teenage friends vanishing without a trace 32 years ago; now police say they finally know what happened to them. We'll tell you ahead.
And later the "Coyote of Manhattan" is finally caught. We'll show you the video.
COOPER: For cops it's one of the oldest cold cases in history. Take a look at these 5 photos. These are the faces of teenage boys one summer night in 1978 vanished. One minute they were playing basketball in a park; the next they were all gone.
This week detectives said they solve the mystery. They are telling their story to 360. With tonight's "Crime and Punishment" report, here's Randy Kaye.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For these cold case investigators in Newark, one case kept them up at night; the oldest, coldest case in the city. Jack Eutsey came out of retirement in 2000 to work the case of the Camden Five. Decades earlier, five teenagers had vanished.
JACK EUTSEY, RETIRED COLD CASE INVESTIGATOR: If I didn't solve this case, I wouldn't have been satisfied.
KAYE: The missing boys were friends.
(on camera): It was a sweltering summer night, August 20th, 1978. The boys had been shooting hoops here at West Side Park in Newark, New Jersey. They stopped home for dinner, police say. Then headed out again with a man named Lee Evans who had told them he needed their help moving some boxes. Lee Evans became a suspect immediately?
KAYE: Why is that?
EUTSEY: Because he was last seen with the children.
KAYE (voice-over): Evans took a polygraph. It was inconclusive.
EUTSEY: It was a lot of flies around the case, you know? And flies only come around when something is stinking and it was dirty.
KAYE: Back in '78, police, desperate for clues, searched the woods, the morgues, even tried a Ouija board. IN 1996 they consulted two psychics.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's somebody down there buried, or I would not get those feelings I did.
KAYE: Still they came up empty. The mystery continued to make headlines. Families endured painful anniversaries.
TERRY LARSON, VICTIM MICHAEL MCDOWELL'S SISTER: Every year, you play it over again. You look at what are other possibilities. What could have happened?
KAYE: In 2007, Eutsey asked Lt. Louis Correga to help on the case.
(on camera): You had to start from scratch really.
LT. LOUIS CORREGA, ESSEX COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Start from scratch exactly.
KAYE: In 2008, a strange twist in the case. Retired detective Jack Eutsy says that suspect Lee Evans called one of the victims' brothers and told him he had become a born-again Christian and wanted to let him know that mobsters were involved in the boys' disappearance; mobsters, not him.
(voice-over): Police didn't buy it. Evans and another suspect, his cousin Philander Hampton still lived in town. A third suspect died in 2008 of natural causes.
(on camera): Is there one shred of evidence that really stands out for you that you said, you know what -- this could be it"?
CORREGA: Well, you know, putting together the fire with the disappearance of the kids.
KAYE (voice-over): The fire he's talking about happened in 1978. About a year and a half ago, a witness came forward with new information about it. Investigators knew they were close.
(on camera): The big break in the case came when investigators realized that a vacant home that had burned to the ground the night the boys disappeared that used to be right here actually belonged to one of the suspects in the case, Philander Hampton. But because the boys weren't reported missing until two days after that fire, police say they was no reason to make that connection or ever consider that those boys might have been inside.
(voice-over): Investigators now believe the boys were lured to the vacant home at gun point, killed and doused with gasoline. The house was burned to the ground. The boys' remains never found.
The motive: payback. Police sources say the boys had broken into Evans apartment and stolen drugs from him. Two garbage bags full of marijuana.
This week more than three decades after the boys vanished, Lee Evans and Philander Hampton were arrested, charged with five counts of murder and arson. Victims' families are torn between anger and relief.
LARSON: How do you re-open a case and never go back to your prime suspect until now?
KAYE: Both men pleaded not guilty. But for Jack Eutsey, it's case closed.
EUTSEY: They thought they got away with it. They thought they had their best shot. Everybody looked at them. Everybody looked at them.
KAYE (on camera): They thought they were in the clear.
EUTSEY: They thought they were in the clear.
KAYE (voice-over): it may have taken more than 31 years, but if they did kill these boys, investigators finally got it right.
COOPER: The key suspect has always said he's innocent. Where did he say he last saw the young boys that night?
KAYE: Lee Evans had picked them up in his truck. And he said that he dropped all the boys off at their homes that night. But the witnesses in this case say that they were never dropped off at home.
But the key thing, Anderson, that we learned today, some new information, we found out today from our police sources that there could have been a sixth victim in this case. In fact, when Lee Evans was picking up the boys that night to go move the boxes, allegedly, there was a sixth boy in the car.
His father came out and said, "Hey where are you going," according to our sources. And the boy said, "I'm going to help move some boxes with Lee Evans and his friends." And that dad said, "Oh no, you're not. Get out of that truck." That boy could have also met the same fate as the others. COOPER: Wow. Lucky indeed.
Randi thanks, appreciate it.
Coming up next on the program, voting yes or no on marijuana; one state putting that issue on the ballot. The reason, they have a lot to do with money.
Also later, no stopping the chop master, we'll introduce you to him. It's tonight's "Shot".
COOPER: A quick update on some of the other stories we're following. Christine Romans with another "360 Bulletin" -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the Pentagon is making changes to its "don't ask, don't tell policy". Defense Secretary Robert Gates says changes will be made to ease restrictions on gays and lesbians serving in the military. The new rules will significantly raise the threshold before a service member can be investigated for his or her sexual orientation. Gates said the change reflects common sense and common decency.
California voters will decide whether to make marijuana legal on the November ballot. Supporters of the proposal say legalizing marijuana will bring in more than a billion dollars in revenue to help narrow the state's huge deficit.
Tiger Woods has lost more than endorsements since the now famous sex scandal. A new CNN Opinion Research Poll shows just 43 percent of Americans have a favorable view of him. That's down from the 85 percent that liked him back in 2005. The same poll, however, shows 60 percent of those surveyed want him to win the Masters tournament next month. So go figure.
COOPER: Go figure.
ROMANS: And under a car in New York it's the Wily Coyote of Manhattan, Anderson. She's been spotted in various parts of the city over the last few days. They've been tracking her diligently. And today cops finally caught up with her.
The coyote was cornered -- I know -- and captured. She was tranquilized and now officials are trying to figure out where to release the animal.
COOPER: Go figure. That's going to be my new tag line. Go figure. Hey, go figure.
All right. So talking about animals in parks, there's still a lot of problems with animals in Central Park. I don't know if you're aware of this Christine.
A lot of weird animals have been spotted lately. Take a look at. We're not sure exactly what species these are. Yes.
COOPER: I think they're -- yes. 360ius crew is is the Latin name.
ROMANS: Tranquilize them.
COOPER: Yes. They're hard to -- yes, they clean each other. It's really not attractive, very unpleasant.
All right. For tonight's "Shot", I give you Ha-yahh -- as in Ha- yahh.
Would have been cooler if the bodies weren't blocking the shots; some serious chopping going on there. We found this video on liveleak.com. For all we know this guy is still chopping away. Yes. He just keeps at it, the energizer bunny.
ROMANS: He's a jack hammer.
COOPER: Very talented, very skilled with the karate. But can he do this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY RIPA, HOST, "LIVE WITH REGIS & KELLY": Like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right on your forehead. Ok. Can I get 60 seconds on the clock please?
RIPA: And then what do you want me to do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now as soon as I say three, two, one, we're going to go. You are going to shake, move your eyebrows and wiggle that down into your eye socket into your mouth.
Ladies and gentlemen, three, two, one, go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Christine, you haven't seen this? Here we go. I actually now sit at home just about every night this is what I do. Except without Kelly because --
ROMANS: What kind of message is that for Jamie Oliver and all --
COOPER: Well, those are trans fat free cookies. Yes, see. There. Boom. In my mouth. She couldn't get it in her mouth. She missed that one. She spent an awful lot of time just trying to get one cookie in her mouth and it didn't work. Not only am I chewing, but I'm also still making progress on another cookie. Yes.
ROMANS: An excellent newsman and entertainer.
COOPER: Yes. That's right. What is little left of my dignity, you heard falling away right there.
Hey that's it for 360. Thanks for watching.
"LARRY KING" starts now.
I'll see you tomorrow night.