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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Interview With Chaz Bono; Homicide in Hollenbeck; World's Largest Drug Company Too Big to Nail?
Aired March 12, 2010 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: the "Big 360 Interview."
Chaz Bono was born Chastity Bono, the daughter of Sonny and Cher. One year ago, Chaz began hormone therapy, this fall had surgery. Tonight, in a rare interview, he talks about life as a man and the transformation that has changed his gender.
Also tonight, a brazen case of health care fraud at the world's largest pharmaceutical company. If a person had done what this company did, they would have locked him up and thrown away the key. But, as you're about to see, when you're a multibillion-dollar company, you get special treatment. We're "Keeping Them Honest."
And, later, a battle in Texas to rewrite history. Conservatives say school textbooks are too liberal. They have nixed Thomas Jefferson. What else will go?
First up, an amazing transformation. Susan Stanton was just on "LARRY KING" talking about her transition from male to female.
Tonight, another transformation that began one year ago for Chaz Bono, who was born Chastity. In the 1970s, of course, Chastity appeared with her parents, Sonny and Cher, on stage. Chastity is back in the spotlight, this time as Chaz.
Tonight, my interview with Chaz Bono.
First, though, Gary Tuchman takes an "Up Close" look at the transformation.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, his name is Chaz Bono, but back then she was Chastity Bono -- not just her parent's sweetheart, but an American sweetheart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SONNY AND CHER SHOW")
SONNY BONO AND CHER, ENTERTAINERS (singing): Babe, I got you babe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: "The Sonny and Cher Show" was a hit for years. Their daughter's appearances weren't just cute. They were often funny. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SONNY AND CHER SHOW")
S. BONO: Now, you can be a good little angel...
S. BONO: ... or you can be a naughty little devil. Now, don't...
CHASTITY BONO, DAUGHTER OF CHER AND SONNY BONO: I want to be a naughty...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE FLEEMAN, WEST COAST EDITOR, PEOPLE. COM: When you saw little Chastity on "The Sonny and Cher Show," she was the model of cuteness. Here's this towheaded little blonde, chubby-cheeked girl brought on stage. Mom and dad are singing, the model of sort of the happy showbiz family.
TUCHMAN: But, as the years went by, Chastity Bono went through personal turmoil. At the age of 18, she told her parents was a lesbian.
Her mom, who has always been very popular with gay audiences, surprisingly to many, took the news very poorly. But Cher ultimately appeared on the cover of a gay and lesbian magazine called "The Advocate," declaring she was the proud mother of a lesbian daughter.
The situation with Sonny Bono was complicated. He became a Republican congressman from California, and, in 1998, died in a skiing accident. His daughter was at his funeral.
FLEEMAN: At the time that Sonny died in the ski accident, Chaz, then Chastity, was estranged from him. Their differences were political, not personal. It was because of Sonny's stance on certain gay issues.
But, ironically, Sonny seemed to be much more comfortable with Chastity when she came out, seemed to, on a personal level, be able to be much more accepting of it than Cher was.
TUCHMAN: Over the years she sang and wrote music for a rock band called Ceremony. She has also written two books. And then, in 2009, she began the process of gender transition.
FLEEMAN: Chaz has given very little specific information about the actual procedure. We know that he's had a mastectomy. We know that he's been taking the proper hormones, know that he had a hysterectomy for unrelated reasons in the past, know that he's living completely as a man, know that he started shaving for the first time. TUCHMAN: Chaz Bono says he now feels happiness and a sense of peace, his life evolving over the years far more dramatically than most.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
COOPER: Well, the first half of my interview with Chaz aired last night. You can watch it on our Web site at AC360.com.
Here now is part two of the "Big 360 Interview."
COOPER: You say this has been a long journey. I mean, when did you -- a lot of -- a lot of transgendered people who I have talked to have said that, you know, from the earliest memories, they -- they had some of these feelings.
When did you start to think, wait a minute, there's something else going on here?
CHAZ BONO, TRANSGENDER ACTIVIST: Well, really, as far back as I have memory, I felt -- I felt there was something different about me.
And -- and I, you know, felt like one of the guys. I mean, my friends were all boys when I was little, and I -- I just felt like one of them. And then, you know, when puberty hits, it gets really confusing. And, you know, for me, I just, at that point, you know, realized I had a physical attraction to women, and just kind of, you know, went with the obvious, that I must be a lesbian.
And it a took quite a number of years to realize that, you know, that wasn't the case, that, in fact, I was transgendered.
COOPER: And gender identity really has nothing to do with sexuality.
C. BONO: No, not at all, nothing whatsoever.
COOPER: I mean, because I think a lot of people equate the two, but, I mean, while you had attractions to women, you were -- and you're now dating a woman -- it's as a man. So, you don't -- you would no longer say, obviously, that you're lesbian. You would say that you're a transgender male, a male heterosexual, correct?
C. BONO: Absolutely, yes.
Yes, the two really don't have anything to do with each other. There are transgendered people who are heterosexual. There are transgendered people who are gay, bisexual, everything. And -- and the two really don't -- you know, they're two very separate, separate issues.
COOPER: We're going to have more of my -- with my interview with Chaz Bono in just a moment. You can join the live chat right now at AC360.com.
Also ahead tonight: what happened in Texas today that could change what your child learns at school, no matter where you live. The "Raw Politics" in the classroom -- coming up.
COOPER: More now of my conversation with Chaz Bono.
A lot of people remember him as Chastity Bono, the little girl who shared the stage with her famous parents, Sonny and Cher. But, a year ago, Chastity became Chaz.
In the conclusion of our interview, Chaz talked about the transformation and his lifelong quest for authenticity.
COOPER: What has been the -- I mean, there has got to be tons of challenges. What has been the most difficult part of this -- of this transition?
C. BONO: You know, the -- the difficult part of transitioning was all the work that I had to do beforehand to get comfortable enough to start my transition, knowing that there was no way I would be able to take this journey privately.
And, so, you know, it took me, I think, longer than a lot of people to get comfortable enough with myself and -- and feel comfortable enough with the people in my life to -- to be able to do this in the public eye.
COOPER: It's -- that's got to be a whole other level of concern. I mean, most people who make this transition don't have that -- that's not part of the equation. Do you plan to continue more, I mean, with -- with transitioning? Is there -- is there more for you to do?
I mean, a lot of people -- a lot of people...
C. BONO: There's not -- you know...
COOPER: ... don't decide -- they stop with top surgery, a lot of people who transition from -- from female to male.
C. BONO: Right. Exactly. There's -- there's no -- you know, there's no kind of, like, necessary finish line, or, you know, you don't get the spike, you know, the -- to touch the ball in the end zone.
It's just, you know, I will be on male hormones for the rest of my life. And, you know, I will continue to kind of masculinize as time goes on, because, again, it's been a fairly short period of time. And, you know, the whole process is really about four or five years that you're, you know, changing in significant ways.
And, you know, as far as, you know, any bottom surgery, that's something that I don't really feel comfortable talking about.
COOPER: What's -- what do you want people to know? I mean, a lot of people I know who have transitioned kind of want to blend in or pass, and not -- not be a transgender activist, or not be known as a transgender male or transgender female.
C. BONO: Right.
COOPER: Obviously, you were in the public eye. You didn't have that public choice, but what do you want people to know?
C. BONO: Man, you know, I don't -- I don't know what exactly I want.
I mean, look, I have been an activist within the LGBT community for a long time. And what I want is equal rights, and what I want is for people to understand that, though there are, you know, some difference, you know, that's -- that's OK. Diversity is something that's a part of nature, and, you know, there is nothing wrong with this.
You know, the thing that's frustrating is that the people who judge this issue are people that don't have -- have it. You know, these are people who feel comfortable in the body they were born in. Their brain matches their body, matches their genitalia, matches their chromosomes.
You know, that isn't my experience, and it's not other people's experience. And we live in a really rigid, binary culture. And not everybody fits into that. And that's OK.
COOPER: Well, Chaz Bono, I appreciate you talking to us. Thanks so much.
C. BONO: Thank you.
COOPER: You can watch my entire interview with Chaz Bono on our Web site at AC360.com.
And a reminder: This weekend on CNN, the story of someone who, on the outside, seemed to have it all, but battled long to fight a lifelong inner struggle with gender identity. CNN follows her transformation from male to female in the documentary "Her Name Was Steven," premiering this weekend Saturday and Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern.
Still ahead: "Homicide in Hollenbeck": You will meet a remarkable priest who is giving former gang members a new future. I will talk to his and supporter, activist Martin Sheen -- how the actor got involved with the battle to end the bloodshed in Hollenbeck.
Plus, a disturbing new development involving "The Dating Game" killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DATING GAME"`)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Number one, would you say hello to Cheryl, please?
RODNEY ALCALA, CONTESTANT: We're going to have a great time together, Cheryl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He thought of himself as a lady killer when he appeared on "The Dating Game." It turned out, he actually was. Police think the number of victims might be higher than they imagined. They want your help to identify possible victims.
We will also take look at the case of Pfizer, one of the largest drug companies in the world, if not the largest, and allegations against them for fraud and what happened in this case and why it's important to you.
We will also have the battle going on in Texas over schools and what they can put into textbooks.
We will be right back.
COOPER: Still ahead: "The Dating Game" killer and his chilling past. Police release hundreds of photos found in a serial killer's storage locker. Could these be the faces of his other victims? Police want your help.
But, first, Stephanie Elam has a 360 news and business bulletin -- Stephanie.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson.
Yes, a New Jersey man with suspected ties to al Qaeda is under investigation for low-level maintenance work he performed at five nuclear power plants. Twenty-six-year-old Sharif Mobley worked as a laborer at plants in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Maryland between 2002 and 2008. The FBI is looking into whether Mobley had access to any sensitive areas. He's currently in custody in Yemen.
Harsh words today from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton over Israel's plan to expand settlements in the disrupted territory -- or disputed territory of East Jerusalem.
In an exclusive CNN interview, Secretary Clinton called the timing of the announcement insulting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: And the announcement of the settlements the very day that the vice president was there was insulting. I mean, it was just really a very unfortunate and difficult moment for everyone, the United States, our vice president, who had gone to reassert America's strong support for Israeli security.
And I regret deeply that that occurred and they made that view known.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELAM: Toyota is facing its first consumer protection lawsuit over ongoing acceleration problems with its vehicles. The district attorney in Orange County, California, accuses Toyota of knowingly selling defective automobiles. The manufacturer faces at least 89 class-action lawsuits as well.
And a new report finds New York City cab drivers bilked passengers out of more than $8 million over the last two years -- their scam, to manually switch the meter to a higher rate, so that they could charge double for the trip. A new system requires passenger approval for any rate switch.
I always thought that their trick was basically to drive you three different ways around the city to get you to where you needed to go.
ELAM: That's what I thought their little bilking plan was.
COOPER: Yes. I'm still not sure how that plan worked. But, anyway, I would like to see that one.
COOPER: All right, next on 360: keeping drug companies honest, fraud at the world's biggest pharmaceutical company. This is just unbelievable. But they're still in business, however, because they got special treatment. How about that? Did the punishment fit the crime, or are they simply too big to convict?
Also tonight, homicide and hope in Hollenbeck -- one man's mission to end the cycle of violence there. We will meet him. We will also talk to actor and activist Martin Sheen about his support for this man.
We will be right back.
COOPER: Tonight, keeping drug companies honest, a story that is simply stunning about multimillion-dollar profits and illegal activity at this country's biggest drug company.
Now, we're bringing you this story tonight because the battle over health care reform is nearing its end. Tonight, congressional leaders say they are planning a final push to a vote next week, and President Obama has postponed a trip to Asia to focus on the end game. Presumably, he will be twisting some elbows as Democrats try to nail down the votes they need.
Now, as you know, Obama has been turning up the heat in his health care speeches all week. Two days ago, he ordered a crackdown on waste and fraud. By some estimates, health care fraud adds billions to costs each year.
But, tonight, we're going to show you one example, an astonishing case that resulted in a record fine. But did the punishment actually match the crime? And is there anything to stop this company or other big drug companies from doing it again?
We're "Keeping Them Honest."
Here's Drew Griffin.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pfizer, Incorporated, with 116,000 employees and revenues of $50 billion a year, it is the world's largest pharmaceutical company. And that's why this news last fall sounded like a huge victory for the government and a huge loss for Pfizer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice.
GRIFFIN: The government was building a case against Pfizer for fraudulently marketing a drug that had raked in hundreds of millions of dollars in profits, a painkiller called Bextra. Pfizer aggressively marketed it for uses and in doses not approved by the FDA.
KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: They didn't just implicate Pfizer. They actually identified and charged the senior managers who were responsible for the fraud.
GRIFFIN (on camera): But our investigation found another story, one that officials here at the Department of Justice downplayed on that day they declared victory. It's the story about the power major pharmaceutical companies have, even when they break the laws intended to protect patients.
(voice-over): We're "Keeping Them Honest," and we begin nine years ago, in 2001, when the FDA approved Bextra, but only for limited use and only for menstrual cramps and arthritis.
Even so, Pfizer sales reps promoted it, illegally, for surgical pain in higher doses, uses the FDA had rejected due to safety concerns. Doctors responded. Instead of prescribing, say, ibuprofen at pennies a pill, they prescribed Bextra at nearly $3 a pill for all kinds of unapproved uses.
Sales were very good. GRIFFIN: Glenn DeMott was a sales rep in Columbus, Ohio. He would later collect reward money that the federal government gives whistle-blowers.
(on camera): Did the sales rep know what they were doing was illegal?
GLENN DEMOTT, FORMER PFIZER SALES REP: They said that the district manager approved it. They think it might not be legal, but if they don't make their numbers, they're not going to keep their job anyway.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): It brought Pfizer nearly $1 billion in profits. And it cost us all, because Medicare, Medicaid, and our private insurance picked up much of the tab.
Mike Loucks, then a federal prosecutor in Boston, launched an investigation.
MICHAEL LOUCKS, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: If the company is able to push the product for the unapproved indication, then it makes a mockery, if you will, of the FDA approval process.
GRIFFIN: Even though prosecutors said the illegal conduct was tolerated and encouraged by sales managers across the country, Pfizer escaped the ultimate punishment.
(on camera): Just as giant banks on Wall Street were considered too big to fail, Pfizer was considered too big to nail. Why? Because a company convicted of major fraud would automatically be kicked out of Medicare and Medicaid. Pfizer would no longer be allowed to bill any federal health programs for any of its products. It would be a corporate death sentence.
LEWIS MORRIS, CHIEF COUNSEL, OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL: If a company like Pfizer is excluded from Medicare and Medicaid, they're out of business.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Lewis Morris, a top lawyer at the Department of Health and Human Services, told us, Pfizer's collapse could leave thousands out of work, millions not getting their medications.
MORRIS: We have to ask whether, by excluding the company, are we harming our patients? Are we harming the beneficiaries who need these critical drugs?
GRIFFIN (on camera): Since shutting down Pfizer was unthinkable, Pfizer and the feds cut the deal. And here's how they did it. Pfizer, located here in New York, owns a company named Pharmacia Corporation, which owns another company called Pharmacia & Upjohn, LLC, which owns Pharmacia & Upjohn Company, LLC, which, in turn, owns Pharmacia & Upjohn Company, Incorporated.
And what does Pharmacia & Upjohn Company, Incorporated, do? (voice-over): Nothing. It's a shell created to be a legal shield for Pfizer. In other words, if Pfizer was at risk of being convicted, the shell company would take the hit. Think of it as the great-great-grandson of the parent company. Birthday? March 27, 2007, just in time to plead guilty in a kickback case against the company Pfizer had acquired a few years earlier.
(on camera): With that conviction, Pharmacia & Upjohn Company, Incorporated, which had never sold so much as a single pill, was excluded from Medicare. Two years later, when Pfizer was in trouble with Bextra, Pharmacia & Upjohn Company, Incorporated, the shell company, stepped up again and pleaded guilty. It was like having an imaginary friend, an imaginary bad guy to take the rap.
(voice-over): And Pfizer, too big to nail, is still doing business with the federal government.
MORRIS: It is true that, if a company is created to take a criminal plea, but it's just the shell, the impact of an exclusion is minimal or nonexistent.
GRIFFIN: Did the punishment fit the crime? Pfizer says yes. It paid nearly $1.2 billion in a criminal fine for Bextra, the largest fine ever. It paid a billion dollars more to settle civil suits, although it denies wrongdoing on allegations it illegally promoted 12 other drugs.
In all, Pfizer lost the equivalent of three months' profit. But even Mike Loucks, who spent more than a decade prosecuting some of the largest drug companies in the country, isn't sure that $2 billion is enough to make big pharma clean up its act.
LOUCKS: I worry that, the incentives are so great, the money is so great, that that has maybe made it, dealing with us, Department of Justice, as just a cost of doing business.
COOPER: So, Drew, what does Pfizer have to say about all this?
GRIFFIN: Anderson, nothing on camera. After a lot of back-and- forth, we got a phone conversation with the company's chief compliance officer.
He told us, look, Pfizer takes full responsibility for illegally promoting Bextra. And to prevent it from happening again, here's what Pfizer says it has done. It set up a leading-edge system. It monitors sales reps tracking prescription sales and proactively looking for signs that its people are illegally promoting these drugs.
COOPER: So, are -- is Pfizer doing this voluntarily?
GRIFFIN: No, not all voluntary. Pfizer, they had to sign what's called a corporate integrity agreement with the Department of Health and Human Services. Basically, the executives at Pfizer have to sign on the dotted line to say that their company is going to comply with the law.
COOPER: But, I mean, you look at this thing, and, I mean, if Pfizer is too big to fail, and even the biggest fine in history is just a few months' profit, then what's going to stop it from illegally promoting other drugs?
GRIFFIN: Critics say, Anderson, nothing, nothing.
They think that this is really -- even though it's a big, big fine, you know, what, $2 billion, they say, look, it is a cost of doing business. And until -- even the prosecutor. Until and unless somebody goes to prison, somebody high up goes to prison, and/or the company is banned from selling drugs to Medicare or Medicaid, this activity, like it has in the past with so many other companies, will continue.
COOPER: Drew, thanks, "Keeping Them Honest." Thanks, Drew.
Well, let us know what you think about this Pfizer case. Join the live chat right now at AC360.com.
Up next: Will Texas end up changing what your child learns in school? It doesn't matter where you live. Social studies lessons may end up dropping mentions of Thomas Jefferson, or a lot of mentions. That battle to rewrite history -- ahead.
Plus: the "Dating Game" bachelor and serial killer. Already convicted of five murders, now photos he took have been found in a storage locker. Could they be other victims? Police are asking for your help.
COOPER: We've been bringing you stories all this week from the Hollenbeck division in Los Angeles: stories about gangs, the violence they breed, the lives they take. And we first went to Hollenbeck five years ago. Back then the death toll was higher.
Now, the killings, gang-related homicides are down. But that wall of silence, that stop-snitching code that keeps murders from being solved, remains.
You should know, however, there is plenty of hope in Hollenbeck. And one man has dedicated his life to creating it. His name is Father Greg Boyle, and he's doing more than ending the bloodshed. He's giving gang members a future.
COOPER (voice-over): Somehow Richard Moya has survived the gangs of Hollenbeck, but as he'll tell you, it's day-by-day.
(on camera) Where did you get shot?
RICHARD MOYA, FORMER GANG MEMBER: I got shot on the block where I'm at right now, and I took a bullet of a .45 underneath my heart, and I was just thankful that...
COOPER: Right under your heart?
MOYA: Yes, sir.
COOPER (voice-over): Moya claims he was simply the victim of a random drive-by shooting.
(on camera) And then what's that scar?
MOYA: That scar was from, actually, the first time that I got shot which was five times.
COOPER: You've been shot six times total?
COOPER: Wow. So you're 32 years old?
MOYA: Thirty two years old.
COOPER: And you've been shot six times?
MOYA: Six times.
COOPER: Does that make you really lucky or really unlucky?
MOYA: I would say for the fact unlucky that I have to deal with the pain, but lucky that I'm alive today.
COOPER (voice-over): Moya's alive today, thanks in large part to this man.
FATHER GREG BOYLE, WORKS WITH FORMER GANG MEMBERS: Are you on probation or parole?
COOPER: Father Greg Boyle.
BOYLE: You are?
COOPER: We first met Father Boyle five years ago at Homeboy Industries, a company he started that helps young men transition out of gang life.
(on camera) I remember something you said to me five years ago that I've repeated to so many people I can't even count, which was that I asked you if you ever felt taken advantaged of. Do people take advantage of you? And you said that you give your advantage away. I think that's a great -- I sure use that in my own life.
BOYLE: I think people are always kind of cynical about they don't want to be used, and that happens if you're -- if you're kind of stingy about what you have, rather than live in a way that's more abundant and where you're giving your advantage all the time. This place wants to give its advantage, wants to give its resources. COOPER (voice-over): Homeboy Industries offers troubled young men counseling and job training. They have a host of social programs, even including gang tattoo removal.
In the last five years, Father Boyle has expanded Homeboy Industries into a multimillion-dollar facility near downtown Los Angeles. It's allowed him to reach out to more young people at risk.
BOYLE: OK. All right.
COOPER (on camera): And do you still never write anybody off?
BOYLE: Yes, I think this place is soaked with a sense of redemption so you really -- because I found...
COOPER: It's soaked with a sense of redemption?
BOYLE: It really is soaked with it.
I have several of them, who not that you write off, but in your head you toy with the idea that "I'm not sure he's ever going to be able to steer this thing in another direction," and lo and behold, they do.
COOPER (voice-over): Richard Moya started heading the wrong direction from the time he was young.
MOYA: My dad was in a gang, and I witnessed and encountered his murder right in front of me at 5 years old.
COOPER (on camera): He was shot to death in front of you?
MOYA: Shot to death by a rival gang.
COOPER: Do you remember it?
MOYA: I remember it to -- to this day. He was shot exiting our house, getting into the car. And when we were waiting for him to exit the house another person approached and shot him straight in his forehead.
COOPER (voice-over): Seeing his father die didn't stop Moya from getting involved with gangs. He joined one when he was 13.
When we first met Moya five years ago, he'd already been shot and imprisoned. Instead of writing Moya off, however, Father Boyle hired him.
MOYA: Good afternoon. Homeboy Industries, Richard speaking. How can I help you today?
COOPER (on camera): Is his struggle emblematic of the difficulty of getting out of gang life?
BOYLE: I think she's been out -- far out of gang life. He's also somebody who's been deeply traumatized in his own history, and it's difficult for -- for him to make long strides. He has to kind of do little short hops.
COOPER (voice-over): Those short hops aren't easy. Moya has four sons he's not allowed to see and struggles to earn a living every day, washing cars and recycling. Last year he barely survived that drive-by shooting.
Richard Moya says he joined the gang for the same reasons so many others do: to earn respect. But now he says none of it makes sense any more.
MOYA: People used to go around and get respect because you either boxed somebody or you stabbed that person, bottom line. Ten of your homeboys, meet ten of our homeboys. Let's go, right now at the park, esse. And that's it. You got your respect. Hey, watch out for that bad boy, man. He can really swing them. Watch out for that guy, dog. He'll really stab you. That's the respect.
COOPER: Seeking that kind of respect, however, led him to prison.
MOYA: What made me actually just stop ganging -- gangbanging completely is you have gangsters that were your enemies that you used to shoot or stab or box or fight, and those are the people that are your Sallys. Those are the people that got your back in prison when you're doing a term. And if you could become buddies like that in there and forgive and all that, why can't I forgive the person that shot me?
BOYLE: How are you doing?
COOPER: Forgiveness instead of revenge. That's precisely why Father Boyle is convinced that long-term treatment at Homeboy Industries is a worthy investment. A model, he says, that saves thousands of lives.
(on camera) That's what gang life is, a result of a lethal absence of hope?
BOYLE: It's about a lethal absence of hope. Because that's fundamentally where this rests always.
COOPER (voice-over): Curtailing gangs means replacing that absence with hope. It's that simple and that complicated, says Boyle.
(on camera) Do you think you'll make it to 40?
MOYA: You know, that's a good question. And I'll tell you right now, I see a lot of people that makes me admire them to see their age at 40. I can't make no promises, but the only thing is I hope my sons see me before 40. I really do.
COOPER: Let's hope he makes it.
Actor and activist Martin Sheen is a friend of Father Boyle. He also provided the narration for the documentary "Father G. and the Homeboys." Martin Sheen and some workers from Father Boyle's Homeboy Industries joined me earlier.
COOPER: Mr. Sheen, what was it that got you involved with Father Boyle? What is it about him that drew you to Homeboy Industries?
MARTIN SHEEN, ACTOR/GANG INTERVENTION ACTIVIST: Well, his great courage and his great sense of love and being undeterred by unbelievable odds. You know, he brought together a community, as well as so many of these young people who were involved in gangs.
And he understood the central element with the success of gangs. And that is, it is a family, however dysfunctional, but it takes over for what all of these kids generally have missed in their -- in their families. And so he has created a family where they can come together. And what is really extraordinary is how gang members from rival gangs interact together. And really, this is the only place that that happens.
COOPER: I was there five years ago. I was there a couple weeks ago. But I was also there five years ago interviewing Father Boyle. And at the time some of the local police officers, you know, kind of looked on him with suspicion and said that they felt sometimes he was being taken advantage of.
And I asked Father Boyle about that. He said something to me which I've never forgotten in the last five years. Which -- he said, is -- you know, I said, "Do you feel, are you ever taken advantage of?"
And he said he gives his advantage away. And I think that's a really powerful statement, the idea that -- that he gives it away freely. And he never -- and he gives people a second and a third and a fourth and a fifth chance if they -- if they mess up.
SHEEN: Yes, he does. Yes. Yes.
And he also gives them something that many of these young people have never experienced, and that's unconditional love. And that's really what makes all the difference. For a lot of them, he is their father in a very real sense, but also a spiritual sense. So -- and for many of them, he's the only adult that they have ever truly related honestly with in their life and that they've come to trust.
COOPER: He says that a lot of people in gangs have what he calls a lethal absence of hope. What do you think it is that he is able to do, or what do you think these young people are able to do that turned their lives around?
SHEEN: Yes. I think he gives them, first of all, a safe environment, and he gives them confidence that they are not what they are perceived to be by their fellow gang members or by the authorities or their teachers or anyone else. He sees them as very often unloved and lost young people who never really had a chance to grow in that love environment. And so that, I think, makes all the difference.
COOPER: Martin Sheen, thank you very much again. I appreciate it.
SHEEN: Thank you very much, Anderson.
COOPER: Still ahead tonight, a heated battle in Texas that could find its way into your child's classroom, no matter where you live. A move to change what is in textbooks. Rewriting history to tone down what conservatives say is a liberal bias.
And a new twist in the chilling case of a "Dating Game" contestant turned serial killer. Police have uncovered more than 100 photos that he took of women and kids, their identities a mystery. Police now are wondering if they are the faces of more victims, and they want your help.
COOPER: Tonight the battle over what public schools should be teaching your kids.
In Texas today the state's board of education approved a new social studies curriculum that conservatives say is meant to correct for liberal bias among the teachers who initially drafted the standards. The vote came after days of charged debate. It's not the end of the story, however. There's going to be more hearings and a final vote in May.
And just because this is happening in Texas, don't think it may not apply to your child in another state. Texas buys a lot of schoolbooks, and what they want often influences textbooks across the country.
Tom Foreman tonight has the "Raw Politics."
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, this is about a basic question. What do we want in textbooks when we are teaching young people about this country? Does it tilt liberal or conservative or stay in the middle? And right now the battleground is Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Save our history! Save it now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Save our history! Save it now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Save our history! Save it now!
FOREMAN (voice-over): In Austin, heated words. The state's school board is in hearings over the content of new textbooks, and some conservative board members want it moved to the right.
For example, since textbooks include sections on Democratic president Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, which expanded government, they also want a favorable light shined on Ronald Reagan's vision of a smaller government and the political power surge by conservative groups.
Don McLeroy is leading the charge.
DON MCLEROY, TEXAS SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: What we have is the history profession, the experts seem to have a left-wing tilt. And so what we were doing is trying to restore some balance to the standards.
FOREMAN: More examples of what those board members have wanted? Out: too much talk about Thomas Jefferson and the Enlightenment, which stressed reasoning and science over faith. In: more recognition of the contributions of religious leaders like Moses to American ideals.
Out: calling the U.S. government democratic, like the party. In: calling it a constitutional republic.
Out: capitalism, which some board members fear has been turned into a dirty word. In: free enterprise.
(on camera) And on it goes with these board members wanting more praise for conservative icons like Phyllis Schlafly, the leadership qualities of Confederate General Stonewall Jackson, and even the cultural value of country music.
(voice-over) Not all of these measures have survived, but even the discussion has many more liberal Texans furious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not fair for public school students to have the personal and political ideologies and agendas of the conservative state board members crammed down their throats and into their textbooks.
FOREMAN (on camera): All of this matters because, with almost 5 million students, Texas buys a lot of textbooks, and that helps push publishers in terms of what they make available for all the rest of us.
Electronic publishing is mitigating that factor just a little bit, but for the time being, as Texas schools go, in large part so go the rest of the nation's schools. And right now Texas seems set on going to the right -- Anderson.
COOPER: Interesting. Let us know what you think at AC360.com.
Coming up next on the program, he's "The Dating Game" bachelor and a serial killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. 1.
RODNEY ALCALA, CONVICTED SERIAL KILLER: Yes? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your best time?
ALCALA: The best time is at night. Nighttime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you say that?
ALCALA: Because that's the only time there is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's the convicted murderer, and these are the photographs that he took. Who are the people in these photographs, however? Some could be, and police want to know, could some of them be his victims? Authorities want to know. The story ahead.
And later, the ten Americans accused of kidnapping 33 kids in Haiti. Some new charges tonight. The latest on the investigation when we continue.
COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" tonight, a disturbing new development about a serial killer. This is the murderer as he looked when he appeared on "The Dating Game." He was a photographer back then and took pictures of young women and children. The question is, were any of them his victims? This week authorities released the photographs in their search to find out.
Stephanie Elam reports.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They look like innocent snapshots, but they've become haunting, unnerving. We don't know what happened to these women and girls, even whether they are dead or alive. Authorities in California suspect they are photographs taken by Rodney Alcala...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please welcome Rodney Alcala.
ELAM: ... a serial killer who once appeared as a winning bachelor on "The Dating Game"...
ALCALA: We're going to have a great time, Cheryl.
ELAM: ... but who last month was convicted of murdering four women and a 12-year-old girl. A jury recommended the death sentence for his crimes.
The Orange County district attorney and the Huntington Beach Police Department released the pictures to the public this week. They were found in a storage locker used by Alcala.
In a statement, the prosecutor said, "We balanced the privacy concerns of those depicted in the decision to release these pictures. Although we hope that the people depicted are not victims, we believe the release may help solve some cold cases and bring closures to victims' families."
Criminal profiler Pat Brown says there may be other victims.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: When you have a serial killer you never know his final number. We get them for what we get them for, what we have evidence for. But then there's always those ones that he could have simply gotten away with, that there was no evidence at the crime scene, nothing to link him back to it, that victim. So we always have to keep our eye open for the possibility that there are more out there.
ELAM: Alcala, who is now 66, portrayed himself as a charming photographer on "The Dating Game."
ALCALA: Well, they're OK, but nighttime is when it really gets good.
ELAM: He won the date, but reportedly the woman refused to go out with him and Jed Mills, who as bachelor No. 2 sat next to Alcala, still bristles at his encounter with the killer.
JED MILLS, FORMER "DATING GAME" CONTESTANT: I remember that he was very strange and obnoxious in posing, trying to be smiley and friendly at the same time, not giving you a chance to speak when he was speaking.
BROWN: A serial killer and a psychopath cannot stay having a great act all the time, 24 hours a day. So what happens is he can do it for a little bit. But then he becomes creepy again, and that's when people say, "Something's wrong with that guy."
ELAM: The district's attorney office told CNN it's likely Alcala murdered more than five people. Prosecutors also say he kept the earrings of the 12-year-old girl he's convicted of murdering. They were found in a storage locker he rented, along with the photographs.
Stephanie Elam, CNN, New York.
COOPER: Today police said two of the women in the photographs released to the public this week have been identified and are alive. They're also investigating the cases of up to five people in the photos who may be missing. If you have any information that could help this investigation, call the Huntington Beach Police Department at 714-536-5947. Or the district attorney investigator, 714-347-8492.
It's time now for a "360 Bulletin." Stephanie Elam joins us for that -- Stephanie.
ELAM: Anderson, the death of actor Corey Haim is linked to an illegal and massive prescription drug ring. That's according to California attorney Jerry Brown. His office has launched an investigation into how the former child star got prescription drugs. The Associated Press is reporting Haim had a fraudulent prescription when he died on Wednesday in Los Angeles.
The ten Americans accused of kidnapping 33 Haitian children each face a new charge: organizing irregular travel. Nine of the Americans have been released. The tenth, their leader, Laura Silsby, is still being held in Port-au-Prince. It will be up to a judge to decide if all of them should face trial.
And Jay Leno is back at No. 1 in the fight for late-night viewers. "The Tonight Show" topped David Letterman since its relaunch March 1. But in the past few days, the margin of victory has shrunk. I guess that old newness wears off after time.
COOPER: Yes. Well, this morning, I should point out, I was filling in for Regis on "Live with Regis and Kelly," and Guy Fieri from the Food Network stopped by. He's also the host of the new NBC show, "Minute to Win It."
And he gave us a little challenge. I guess it was part of his new show. It's called Face the Cookie, where Kelly and I had 60 seconds to move as many cookies from our foreheads from our mouths without using our hands. I know it's absurd and ridiculous, but it was actually kind of fun. We've made it tonight's "Shot." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUY FIERI, HOST, NBC'S "MINUTE TO WIN IT": Go.
You can do it Kelly. There you go. There you go. She's killing you over here. She's killing you over here. Come on. There you go. Oh, close. What the -- oh! Five, four, three, two, one!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So there you have it. I won. I was very proud of that.
ELAM: That's like -- you did the cool eyebrow action. You do this and wiggle them on down to your mouth.
COOPER: There you go. Very good.
ELAM: I would have -- I might have done well in that competition.
COOPER: Yes. It's fun. It's the game, obviously, one can play at home. So we thought maybe on Monday we might have the crew do it. But we thought if you at home want to try it and, you know, videotape yourself doing it, maybe send us the pictures on the -- or the video on Monday, let us know how you did it. We'll put some of them on the air.
ELAM: Yes. Just make a fool of yourself.
COOPER: Remember, 60 seconds, as many cookies from the head to the mouth. Not too hard.
Stephanie, thanks very much for being with us all week.
A lot more news at the top of the hour when 360 continues.
COOPER: Tonight the big 360 interview. Chaz Bono was born Chastity Bono, the daughter of Sonny and Cher. One year ago Chaz began hormone therapy, this fall had surgery. Tonight in a rare interview, he talks about life as a man and the transformation that has changed his gender.
Also tonight, a brazen case of health-care fraud at the world's largest pharmaceutical company. If a person had done what this company did, they would have locked him up and thrown away the key. As you're about to see, when you're a multibillion-dollar company, you get special treatment.