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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Remembering Fallen Fort Hood Victims; D.C. Sniper Executed
Aired November 10, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: new clues to what drove the alleged Fort Hood gunman and whether he was acting alone -- the very latest, as 15,000 troops and their commander in chief gather to honor their fallen comrades and seek comfort together.
Also tonight, the radical Muslim sect that cheered on the massacre. That's right, cheered. They're not in Karachi. They're not in Pakistan. They're not in London. They're living and preaching and recruiting on the streets of New York. You need to see who they are and what they're telling people to do. We will take you "Up Close."
And, later, the big 360 interview: What would you do if someone fell in front of a subway you were riding on? We will talk to the subway motor woman, what she saw and did, and how she feels about it now.
First up: motives for murder, missed opportunities, and mourning. President Obama and Mrs. Obama at Fort Hood this afternoon honoring the killed and wounded. Earlier in the ceremony, he told 13 life stories, 13 lives cut down here on American soil.
He also spoke of the alleged killer, Nidal Hasan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy. But this much we do know -- no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts. No just and loving God looks upon them with favor. For what he has done, we know that the killer will be met with justice -- in this world and the next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Hasan, still in the hospital, is refusing to answer questions about the rampage, which isn't stopping the search for possible motives or answers to the key question: Was this a case of organized Islamic terrorism or simply an act of terror by a lone gunman who happened to use his religion to fuel his rage?
The FBI is searching trash bins outside the mosque looking for clues. Others are digging for Hasan's life.
Some answers now, very early answers, we should point out, from Drew Griffin.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If he truly was a jihadist following orders to kill U.S. troops, terrorism experts say Nidal Hasan would have never been seen doing this, showing up in traditional Muslim clothing at a convenience store morning after morning in a small Texas military town, praying at the local mosque day after day.
According to a federal source familiar with the investigation, had Nidal Hasan been a classic terrorist, like the 9/11 hijackers or the London subway bombers, he would have hid his religion, masked his beliefs, blended in, followed the guidance in the al Qaeda terrorist handbook, which directs would-be jihadists to keep secrets and conceal information, even with the closest people, for deceiving the enemies is not easy.
Instead, Hasan made no attempt to hide his religion or his conservative Muslim ideology, which is exactly why some experts are convinced Nidal Hasan is not a terrorist.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: A lot of people are jumping to the conclusion, because this man spouted Islamic -- violent Islamic ideology, that this is a terrorist attack.
GRIFFIN: Pat Brown, a criminologist who profiles killers, says Nidal Hasan better fits the profile of a mass murderer.
BROWN: He was simply a lone guy who had issues, problems, psychopathic behaviors, that then escalated to the point were he wanted to get back at society. And he took it out on his workmates, like most of them do.
GRIFFIN: The profile of a loser, a loner seems to fit the life Nidal Hasan was leading. In Washington, local imams who knew him say Hasan had few, if any, friends, called him isolated, and, at two separate mosques, was having no luck finding a wife.
IMAM SHAKER ELSAYED, IMAM, DAR AL HIJRAH ISLAMIC CENTER: Well, we were not successful in matching him with -- with somebody.
GRIFFIN: With no wife, and suddenly living alone in Texas, CNN has learned, Hasan began visiting this local strip club. The one woman he had in his life was his mother. She died in 2001.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
IMAM JOHARI ABDUL-MALIK, DAR AL HIJRAH ISLAMIC CENTER: Some individuals said that their experience with him, that he changed after his mother passed away -- her prayers were offered in 2001 -- and that, after that, he seemed to be somewhat withdrawn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: There were red flags something was wrong, a PowerPoint presentation obtained by "The Washington Post" where Hasan talked of Muslims fighting for God, infidels and suicide bombing. He spoke out to classmates against the U.S. involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And the FBI says it even investigated Hasan in December, when he was communicating with a person overseas believed to be a radical Islamic cleric. But that case was closed when it was determined Nidal Hasan's communications seemed more in line with his work as a psychiatrist, than a terrorist plotting or conspiring.
The red flag the FBI, the Army, and even the local imams may have missed was possibly a middle-aged, isolated Army major facing an internal crisis and about to snap.
COOPER: So, Drew, we mentioned a second ago agents were digging through a dumpster outside this guy's mosque in Killeen, Texas. They have already had his computer for days. Do we know if they are on to something new?
GRIFFIN: We -- we really don't know, Anderson. And all our sources are pointing to the fact that we still don't have any co- conspirators, no known terrorist group involved with this guy.
In fact, we don't even know that he even told anybody about this attack before he did it, allegedly did it. Still, we're working under the lone gunman scenario. And, as you can see, when you have agents diving into dumpsters five days after the fact, you can see how thorough this investigation is going to be, Anderson.
Just a little perspective -- after the Oklahoma City bombing, it was a million tips that the FBI tracked down, literally tracked down, before that investigation was over. This one has just begun.
COOPER: Yes, a long investigation ahead, no doubt.
Let us know what you think may have motivated the alleged gunman. Join Erica Hill and me online. The live chat is under way at AC360.com. I will log on during the commercial break.
Up next; a look inside the radical Muslim sect that is pushing violent jihad celebrating the Fort Hood massacre and doing it on American soil, right in New York City.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUSEF AL KHATTAB, REVOLUTION MUSLIM: I love Osama bin Laden. I -- I love him like I can't begin to tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later: As D.C. sniper John Muhammad is put to death, hear from the reporter who looked him in the eye, a chilling encounter.
You can text us your questions to AC360, or 23360. And, remember, standard rates apply.
COOPER: It was a very solemn day at Fort Hood, as the victims of last week's rampage were remembered.
President Obama said their memory will be honored in the places they lived and by the people they touched. But here, in New York -- but, in New York City, a radical Muslim group is not mourning their deaths. Instead, its members are praising the alleged killer, saying they love Major Hasan, and labeling the people he's accused of murdering not as victims, but terrorists.
This group, which celebrates the 9/11 attacks, considers Osama bin Laden a hero. It's hard to even say. Their rhetoric is happening in public view of the police outside a mosque in New York City. The question is, have they crossed the line from free speech to inciting violence?
Again, here's Special Investigations correspondent Drew Griffin with an "Up Close" look.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): These are the brothers of Revolution Muslim.
YOUNES ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, REVOLUTION MUSLIM: We tell you Muslims to rise up.
GRIFFIN: They are recruiting just outside New York's 96th Street Mosque.
Inside, thousands of faithful Muslims from every walk of life pray here, practice their faith, and listen to the message of peace. The imam says he detests the messages of hate being yelled right outside his door, but there is not much he can do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are bringing destructive behavior into our community. And our community, the mainstream Muslims, basically, are disgusted their behavior.
GRIFFIN: Almost every Friday, after prayers, the unwelcomed guests arrive to spread their anger.
MOHAMMED: The Koran commands us to disavow and make hatred and enmity between democracy, between nationalism, between secularism and that you see Obama as the enemy he really is, that you see the United States as the enemy it really is.
GRIFFIN: Yousef Al Khattab, a Jew who lived in Israel and abruptly converted to Islam, and Younes Abdullah Mohammed, also a convert, both born and raised in the United States, a country whose way of life they say they hate.
Only hours after the attack at Fort Hood, their Web site was praising Nidal Hasan for his preemptive strike. They called him an officer and a gentleman, and said -- quote -- "We do not denounce this officer's actions."
In fact, in an interview a week before the shootings, the brothers of Revolution Muslim were telling CNN it was every Muslim's duty to terrorize.
And, if you are not a Muslim, they count you as a disbeliever, their mission, to terrorize you.
MOHAMMED: We're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers. And this is a religion, like I said...
GRIFFIN (on camera): You're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers?
MOHAMMED: And the Koran says very clearly in the Arabic language, (SPEAKING IN ARABIC). This means terrorize them. It's a command from Allah.
GRIFFIN: So, you're commanded...
MOHAMMED: It says terrorize them with...
GRIFFIN: ... to terrorize anybody who doesn't believe?
MOHAMMED: It doesn't mean -- you define terrorism as going and killing an innocent civilian. That's what your...
GRIFFIN: How do you...
MOHAMMED: I define terrorism as making them fearful, so that they think twice before they go rape your mother or kill your brother or go on to your land and try to steal your resources.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): It is that Jihadist version of Islam which allows them to conclude the killing of American soldiers overseas is justified, that the attack on 9/11 was also justified, and that an attack on almost any American is justified.
MOHAMMED: Americans will always be a target, and a legitimate target, until America changes its nature in the international arena.
GRIFFIN: In separate and disturbing interviews, both looked to one man as the true living model of Islam -- Osama Bin Laden.
YOUSEF AL KHATTAB, REVOLUTION MUSLIM: I love Osama bin Laden. I -- I love him like I can't begin to tell you, because I haven't seen that he's really done anything wrong from the Sharia. I love him, like, more than -- more than I love myself.
GRIFFIN: What they want is U.S. forces to be defeated, for a Muslim holy land stretching from China to Rome. And, yes, they yearn for the day Israel will vanish.
GRIFFIN (on camera): So, you would like Israel to be bombed, Jews to...
AL KHATTAB: I -- well, I think that's -- do you think that's a rational comeback to what I'm...
GRIFFIN: I'm asking you.
AL KHATTAB: I would like to see Israel wiped off the map. I would like to see a mushroom cloud over it. But, before that, I would like to see the people guided, and I would like them to go back to their original countries, where they're from.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): They may seem crazy to you, but you are not their target audience. The FBI has assigned agents to watch them, to monitor their Web site, and, perhaps more importantly, watch those who are viewing and listening, like Bryant Neal Vinas, a young New Yorker who has pled guilty in a plot to blow up the Long Island Railroad. He met with and admired Khattab.
AL KHATTAB: I just knew that he was a good Muslim brother and that was it.
GRIFFIN: Khattab claims friendship with Tarek Mehanna and Daniel Maldonado. Maldonado arrested and pled guilty in Texas to receiving military training with Somali terrorists. Mehanna was just indicted in Boston, conspiring to provide material support to terrorists.
The Revolution Muslim partners say they do not fight themselves and do not incite others to fight. But make no mistake. They want you to become a Muslim. They want Americans to die.
AL KHATTAB: I would not do it myself. That's what I said. Is Obama a murderer, a tyrant, a scumbag? Absolutely, he is. If they killed him, would I shed a tear? Absolutely, I would not. Would I say that -- would I incite his murder? That not what we -- we don't preach that.
GRIFFIN: The mosques have tried to prevent that kind of hatred from being preached by calling police, but there is little police or even the FBI can do to stop these radicalizers. They are protected by legal rights given in a country they detest.
Drew Griffin, CNN, New York.
COOPER: All right, let's dig deeper now with senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and national security analyst Peter Bergen.
Jeff, obviously, the question a lot of people would have is, where is the line between free speech and terrorist threats?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it's a hard question, and the courts have struggled with this for years. It's -- it's legal to say, death to the Jews. It's illegal to say, death to a specific individual. It's legal to say, it's time for jihad. It's illegal to say, it's time to kill the president.
The lines between those are not obvious. And this is something the courts have struggled with for a long time.
COOPER: Peter, you know, you look at these guys, how worried should people be in the United States about extremists, you know, proselytizing on the streets of America?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, these -- these guys remind me of sort of the British al Qaeda support group called Al- Muhajiroun.
And, you know, these groups present themselves as groups that are, you know, just sort of supporting the bin Laden project and -- and calling for attacks against, you know, Israel and this kind of thing. That message can be very easily misunderstood by young impressionable men. And we have seen plenty of cases in Britain where these al Qaeda support groups then lead to something worse.
And, of course, in Britain, incitement to racial hatred is a crime, something that, as Jeff pointed out, is not a crime in this -- in this country.
COOPER: Jeff, with a group like this, I mean, obviously, as Drew said in his piece, they're -- they're being monitored closely, or at least one would hope they're being monitored closely.
TOOBIN: They are.
And, you know, this is one of the biggest changes and one of the biggest challenges in law enforcement since 9/11. You know, before 9/11, the job of the Justice Department was to prosecute crimes that had already taken place.
After 9/11, the Justice Department said, look, we have to prevent crimes, because the risks are so great of, you know, what a terrorist crime can be. But how you do that, how you prevent crime and go into organizations that you think might commit crimes, that's something our legal system is not perfectly set up to do. And it's -- it's been trial and error so far.
COOPER: It's interesting, Peter, to -- to sort of see these people who, you know, kind of are encouraging people to do one thing that they themselves are not willing to do. I mean, it's the same thing as these -- as people who, you know, recruit kids in madrassas in Pakistan and get them to strap bombs on themselves, when they themselves are -- are too scared or -- or don't have -- you know, if they really, truly believe it, you wonder why they're just trying to encourage others to do it, and not doing something themselves.
BERGEN: Yes, leaders of terrorist groups have a fairly strong track record of not actually engaging in suicide missions themselves. But these -- you know, I think, in the -- there's been a constellation of cases, Anderson, in the last year or so, which we have discussed on the show before. But, you know, the -- the -- I think the atmosphere has changed a little bit in terms of the kinds of jihadist attacks that we have seen actually being carried out, operationalized, for instance, in Little Rock, Arkansas, this summer, the -- the case in Fort Hood to some degree, perhaps, a case where a Quantico Marine base was being cased by a group from North Carolina, people who have actually going to an al Qaeda training camp from Long Island in 2008 from Denver, Colorado, in -- in the same time frame.
And, so, when you look at these -- this kind of group, it's more worrying than it might have been, let's say, two years ago.
COOPER: Peter Bergen, appreciate you being on.
Jeff Toobin, as well -- thanks, Jeff
COOPER: We will continue to watch that group and others here in the United States.
When we come back: the execution of John Allen Muhammad and what happened when a CNN correspondent confronted him about his crimes face-to-face.
Later, perhaps the most terrifying tape you will see in a long time. We are going to talk with the subway motor woman at the controls when disaster nearly struck, the woman falling on the tracks.
We will be right back.
COOPER: Coming up: Carrie Prejean, the explicit tape she apparently made, and why she claims it's not really a sex tape.
First, we're following some other actually important stories tonight. Erica Hill has a 360 bulletin -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More important than Carrie Prejean, imagine that.
Anderson, we begin with some "Raw Politics" despite, the continuing fight over health care reform. And it includes a visit from former President Bill Clinton to Capitol Hill -- that visit happening on the same day the Senate's number-two Democrat warned that reform wouldn't be in place by the end of the year, as President Obama wanted -- Mr. Clinton telling Senate Democrats failure isn't an option, and also made a business case for spending the money on reform.
A CNN producer caught up with him in the hallway afterwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just told them that I thought, economically, America had to pass health care reform, because we were spending $900 billion a year more than we would be spending on any other system, and we were getting less for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: The former president famously failed to get his own version of health care reform through Congress 15 years ago.
Sentencing today for Lisa Marie Nowak, the former astronaut who drove cross-country to confront a romantic rival wearing NASA diapers to minimize bathroom stops. Nowak received a year's probation and two days in jail.
Michael Jackson's mother today dropping legal objections to a pair of executors of her son's will -- however, her dispute with her husband, Joe Jackson, remains. He is still challenging aspects of the will. He will be in court next month to argue he should get a monthly allowance from Michael Jackson's estate.
And Facebook hacked -- you may have noticed it -- apparently hacked by some users with a beef about what they see as weak security. The hijackers, known as Control Your Info took over 286 Facebook groups, warning, anyone with vicious intent could do the same, and protesting the way the groups are administered.
Look out for them, Anderson.
I -- you know, I had totally forgotten about that Lisa Nowak story.
HILL: I know. I did, too, until I saw her...
COOPER: How crazy that -- yes.
HILL: And I thought, oh, yes, I remember her.
COOPER: She -- but she only got probation? I mean, she got like a couple weeks in jail?
HILL: Probation and two days, yes.
COOPER: Huh. Didn't she have, like -- I mean, like nefarious plans or something?
HILL: There was some talk of that. But then a lot more came out at the trial, too, that sort of...
COOPER: Oh, mitigated that?
COOPER: OK. All right, apparently.
COOPER: All right, still ahead: the death of the D.C. sniper, John Allen Muhammad, executed tonight for his killing spree. We will talk live with Jeanne Meserve, who met Muhammad in a chilling prison meeting.
And we're taking your questions for Jeanne. Text them to AC360.com, or 22360 -- remember, standard rates apply -- questions about what this guy was really like.
We will also take you back, remember those days, a look back at what it was like in those terrible days.
Also, this story: a woman following on to the train tracks, subway train heading straight at her. Folks are trying to hail down the train, get it to slow down. You will hear from the motor woman herself who was driving that train, what happens. It's our "Shot" tonight.
COOPER: A little over an hour ago, John Allen Muhammad, the D.C. sniper, was executed by lethal execution, after more than five years on death row. With these two sentences, it was over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY TRAYLOR, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS: All right, the execution of John Allen Muhammad has been carried out under the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Death was pronounced at 9:11 p.m.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
According to witnesses, Muhammad didn't say anything before he died. He was wearing a denim shirt, denim jeans, and flip-flops. He had asked that the details of his final meal not be made public. He took other secrets with him as well.
Muhammad was the mastermind of the killing spree that terrorized the nation's capital and surrounding areas for three weeks in 2002. Ten people were killed that we know about by them, gunned down while doing mundane tasks, like shopping or pumping gas.
Tonight, in part two of our special report, "October Terror," we retrace those terrifying days. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, OCTOBER 14, 2002)
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: We have just received word of another shooting in the Washington, D.C., area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the parking lot of a Home Depot store.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looking inside cars as they come by, everyone having to come to a stop and -- and be questioned by the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEIDRE WALKER, FORMER MONTGOMERY COUNTY ASSISTANT POLICE CHIEF: It wasn't so much that any of the killings stood out. It's sort of the -- for me, anyway, it was the violence and the -- just the wanton random -- randomness. And I think, to everybody in this community, that is sort of what struck the chord of fear.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: It was just people going about their business, their daily lives, and just, you know, wiped out. The -- the Home Depot shooting was -- was just chilling. This was some -- a woman who worked at the FBI, walking, I believe with her husband, on the parking lot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, OCTOBER 19, 2002)
COOPER: The picture we're looking at would seem to indicate the whole area is shut down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: One of the things I think of that captured so many people's attention about this, not just that it was, you know, a year after 9/11, and people didn't know if this was some sort of foreign terrorist or domestic terrorism or random street crime, but just that it -- it was happening in real-time. And you didn't know when it was going to happen next, when -- who -- the next person was going to get hit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, OCTOBER 22, 2002)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As you can see, the bus -- the forward-most bus up there is the one where the shooting victim was standing on the steps -- we now know that he was the driver of the bus -- when he was gunned down. And by all indications, the authorities...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALKER: It was a call to a priest in Ashburn, Virginia. And it wasn't like a confession or a protected communication.
Malvo basically identified himself by his nickname, which was sniper, and, in order to shore up his credibility, made references to Montgomery, Alabama, you know, just gave us pieces that we didn't have prior to that phone call.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: My colleagues and I were hearing from law enforcement sources that it was a Chevy Caprice, old, tinted windows. One of my colleagues got license plate numbers.
I, from my sources, got the names of the people who they thought were inside.
Here's what I was afraid of. That we were going to put out names of two individuals, and somebody was going to take justice into their own hands. And someone was going to say, "These people have created mayhem; they have got to die. I am going to go take them out." And what if they were the wrong names?
CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: A federal arrest warrant has been issued for John Allen Muhammad, also known as John Allen Williams.
RON LANTZ, TRUCK DRIVER: I heard the report of the kind of a car they were looking for and the two occupants and the license plate number. And I pulled in the rest area at Frederick, Maryland, at the Frederick County line. And they were sitting in there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The younger suspect, Malvo, had been up all night the night before, scouting the area in preparation for the last shooting of the bus driver, Conrad Johnson, in Montgomery County, and hadn't had any sleep. And so when they parked, Muhammad went to sleep and said, "You're -- basically, you're on watch. It's your job." So here's this, you know, 15-year-old, 16-year-old kid who hasn't slept in 24 hours and the first thing he does is fall asleep.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two individuals were taken into custody there after a tip from a motorist. This arrest involved a warrant for John Allen Muhammad, also known as John Allen Williams and his 17- year-old stepson, John Lee Malvo.
LANTZ: I'll tell you, I never saw so many policemen and people coming in on airplanes and stuff like that and getting down through the woods in there with lights. It is something you'll never forget.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were extricated suddenly from the vehicle to the point where I think one of them we had to, you know, get him a change of clothing because he soiled himself. So you know, I mean, it can scare -- what they can do can literally scare the crap out of you.
LANTZ: And I got on the way home. And it didn't bother me. That's the funny part is it didn't bother me. I got down the road 30 miles, and I had to stop and get -- get a coffee, because I couldn't keep the foot on the gas pedal. It was a little bit exciting.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been such a terrible, horrifying last three weeks. We can only hope this is the end of it. We don't know that yet. But this is good news today.
COOPER: Good news, indeed.
Jeanne Meserve is one of the few reporters who actually interviewed John Allen Muhammad. She sat down with him face to face in January 2004 after he was convicted. He made his lawyer leave the room.
She is in Jarrett, Virginia, tonight outside Greensville Correctional Center where Muhammad was executed.
Jeanne, he spent much of the interview kind of testing you, trying to actually intimidate you.
MESERVE: Yes, he did. Right from the very start. First thing he said when I walked in was, "You have something on your nose." I didn't have anything on my nose. He was just trying to put me off my game.
And then he'd lead me down these strange avenues. At one point he wanted to know what I knew about Sir Isaac Newton or what I knew about Albert Einstein. And then he said, "You live in a Newton world or Einstein world?" Frankly, I couldn't make sense of a lot of what he was saying.
But he, then, imparted a little bit of knowledge to me. We'd move to a different subject. Then he'd come back again and sort of test me and see if I'd really absorbed what he had taught me. And if I didn't get it right, he could give a just withering look of disdain.
And while all of this was going on, I was thinking, "Gosh, how did Lee Boyd Malvo deal with this?" A 17-year-old kid who was looking for a father, how did he manage in this sort of situation that I would characterize as intellectual bullying -- Anderson?
COOPER: And he -- and he actually made you make a case for why he should let you interview him.
MESERVE: Yes. He said, "Well, why should I talk to CNN?"
And I said, "Well, we have a worldwide reach. You talk to me, you know, you'll be broadcasting to the world your side of the story. And we've never heard it before."
And he said, "Well, yes, why should I talk to you?"
And I said, "Well, you know, I think I'm an honest reporter." I said, "I think that you know who I am." I said, "During the trial that came out while the sniper spree was going on, you were watching CNN and the electronic organizer that they took out of that Chevy Caprice, it said people at CNN had to die."
I said, "In addition, I attended every day of your trial, and while I was there every day, you locked eyes with me, John Muhammad. You know who I am." He said, "No, you're believing your own hype much. That's not why you're here." He said, "You just wrote me a letter, and I decided to take you up on it."
COOPER: We got a question from a viewer, a "Text 360" question. Mark in Virginia asks, "Was Muhammad remorseful for the murders he committed?" Did he ever express remorse?
MESERVE: Muhammad, he would not even talk about the murders. That's, of course, what I went there to talk about. Why did you do this? How did you pick the people that you killed? What's your relationship with Lee Malvo?
He said, "Nope, I'm not going to discuss any of it." All he said was, "I am not going to die for crimes I did not commit."
And at one point it was a rather odd moment. He had one of the guards come in. He said it was a guard that he trusted. And he had me say to the guard that, no, he had not confessed his crimes to me. He apparently wanted to have some kind of witness in case I ever testified against him.
COOPER: It's so -- it really brings it back, just talking to you and looking at those pictures again and seeing those old reports. Jeanne Meserve, I appreciate you being with us tonight. Thank you very much.
MESERVE: You bet.
COOPER: John Allen Muhammad is dead, died tonight. At around 9:11 he was pronounced dead.
Up next, our big 360 interview with a woman driving the rain that nearly hit an apparently drunk woman who'd fallen onto the tracks. All of it was caught on tape. I'll show you the whole thing.
Also ahead, she was fired, and now former Miss California Carrie Prejean is fighting back. She's got a new book. She's telling her side of the story and, yes, there's a sex tape, as well.
COOPER: An incredible story out of Boston to show you and to tell you about. It's what happened after a woman fell onto the tracks in front of an approaching subway train. We're making it our "Shot" tonight.
This is from Friday. The woman you see was apparently drunk. She staggers to the side of the platform...
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Whoa.
COOPER: ... stumbles onto the tracks. And commuters frantically tried to get at the tension of the driver on the train. The driver was able to stop in time within a few inches of the woman. Unbelievable. The woman who fell was treated for some minor cuts. She is lucky to be alive. You see the train approaching. Stops just right before her.
HILL: And then you see her get up.
COOPER: Erica, you actually spoke -- yes, you spoke to the train driver earlier tonight, right?
HILL: I did. Her name is Charice Lewis. She's being hailed as a hero, though she doesn't necessarily see herself that way. But rightfully so, really. Here's what she told me about that incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: So Charice, you'd actually gotten a call from a colleague warning you that things were a little busy at North Station. But when did you realize as you were pulling in that there was a woman on the tracks?
CHARICE LEWIS, TRAIN DRIVER: Right before the train got to her. She moved -- she moved just a little bit, just enough. And the people on the platform were pointing into the pit like pointing in and in. And so I'm like, "OK. Something -- something's got to be wrong." And once I saw her make a movement, I knew exactly like there's someone in the pit. Just stop the train. That was like the No. 1 thing, just stop the train.
HILL: And thankfully, that instinct, and that training kicked in for you. And that's what you did. But were you confident that train would stop in time? I mean, how long does it normally take to bring that train to a halt?
LEWIS: They're old trains. But you throw it in brake. And with anything, you know with, that much weight, when you initially put it in brake, it may slide a little bit. But, you know, it stopped in time.
HILL: Thankfully. Thankfully for her. And you actually saw her get up, I understand. You saw her face. Did you two make eye contact at all?
LEWIS: I believe she did. I was -- she looked up at -- she looked up at me. And all I could see was her smile. She was just like smiling, and I'm like OK. I'm like, you have all your arms, your legs, you're smiling. OK. Thank God you're all right. Now get up out the pit, please.
HILL: Right. And did you have to go -- you have to go on with your shift. I'm sure for you it was a big relief, too. What kept her from getting electrocuted? Because it looks like she came dangerously close to that third rail.
LEWIS: Well, she was grounded in the middle in between the tracks. So it's a good thing she didn't, you know, touch any metal or anything like that. And she was actually able to move away from it rather quickly.
HILL: Yes. LEWIS: So she didn't get shocked.
HILL: I'll tell you, it's a good thing for her, too, that you were driving that train. Charice Lewis, great to you have with us tonight. And now you can go home and relax a little bit. I know it's been kind of a crazy media circus. So thanks again.
LEWIS: Yes. Thank you very much. And you have a good day.
COOPER: How cool is she?
HILL: She was amazing. She was such a pleasure to talk to.
COOPER: She is great. Yes, she seems so nice and just exactly the kind of person you'd want in charge of -- of any train you were on. And I love that the woman, the drunk woman just got up and smiled.
HILL: She did. She just kind of smiled and, you know, you see that there are two men there who helped get her up. They haven't met, actually.
COOPER: Look, a train? OK.
HILL: She did say afterwards, "Well, I was drunk." But apparently, when she first saw those two men waving at her frantically, trying to tell her there was a woman on the tracks, she was actually worried that those guys were going to jump. She wasn't sure what was going on. And then it sort of all came together for her.
COOPER: What time was this at? I'm trying to look at that time plate. Do you know?
HILL: I think it was 10 -- it was, like, 10 and change. I think I read that the woman...
COOPER: At night?
HILL: Yes. She'd been at a party. She had like four 22-ounce beers.
COOPER: Oy. All right.
HILL: And then, you know...
COOPER: All right.
HILL: Dove on the tracks.
COOPER: Well, note to self.
A special program note. Thursday, here only on 360, a young woman and a priest. No question. This is a story about accountability, if not hypocrisy. Gary Tuchman joins us with more.
Gary, what do you got?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, they had an affair and then a son. A Franciscan priest actually baptized him. But the church insisted all of it must be kept a secret. In exchange for the woman's signed promise to tell no one, church officials agreed to provide monthly support for the child. That was 22 years ago. And now that boy has cancer and may only have weeks to live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Was the church concerned about your son?
PATRICIA BOND, HAD A CHILD WITH A PRIEST: Oh, no. No. Never, ever. Not now, not then, not ever. No. They were concerned about getting us out of their life. And I guarantee you the day my son goes, the church will rejoice, because he's...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: A bishop in Wisconsin was not involved in the church decision back then but has been the priest superior for the last two years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: This confidentiality agreement was done to protect the church more than anything.
BISHOP PETER CHRISTENSEN, DIOCESE OF SUPERIOR, WISCONSIN: You say that. I don't know that. Again...
TUCHMAN: Do you really think that wasn't the reason?
CHRISTENSEN: I really can't say. I really don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Well, we didn't stop there. We tracked down the church official who negotiated the deal 22 years ago. We asked him, "Why didn't you fire the priest and tell him to support and father his son?"
And we just heard from the church today. It's offering to pay 100 percent of the young man's funeral expenses. The mother didn't know if she would get anything. We're "Keeping Them Honest," Anderson, this Thursday night.
COOPER: Wow. Look forward to that, Gary. Thanks.
Still ahead, former Miss California, Carrie Prejean, lost her crown, and now she's pushing her new book, speaking out again about her breast implants and much more, including a sex tape that is out there. And later, a pilot is pulled from the cockpit of a cross-Atlantic flight just before takeoff. And get this: he's charged with being drunk. How could that happen? What if no one had actually noticed? We'll be right back.
COOPER: Former Miss California, Carrie Prejean, is making a lot of news tonight and plenty of noise with it. Remember, according to the pageant run by Donald Trump, Prejean was stripped of her title for failing to make public appearances. She said she was fired because of her conservative views, including her opposition to same-sex marriages.
That was then. Now, Prejean has much more to say about Trump, those breast implants, her friendship with Sarah Palin and that, oh yes, that sex tape she made a couple years back.
Randi Kaye joins us with the latest in the wild world of Miss Prejean -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What a wild world it is, Anderson. We'll get to that sex tape business in a second. But we should first say that, shocker, Carrie Prejean is hawking a book. What does a beauty queen do when the going gets tough? She writes a book. What else?
It's called "Still Standing," and in it, Prejean appears to paint herself as the victim. She says her life has been threatened. She no longer has a job. But hey, she does have a book.
It in, she writes, "There is something sick about a political correctness smear machine that can be turned on instantly and can throw so much hatred at a young woman who dared to speak her mind."
She tells readers she was publicly labeled a bigot and another word that starts with the letter "B." You can figure that out for yourself. Even called a Nazi.
She writes her medical records and personal e-mails were released without her consent and says nobody bothered to stand up to say a word in her defense.
COOPER: So she brought a lawsuit against the pageant. Sued for libel, slander, religious discrimination. Then suddenly, that suit was dropped. What do we know about what happened?
KAYE: Carrie Prejean actually demanded more than $1 million during her settlement negotiations with the Miss California USA pageant. There is quite a bit of speculation now that she dropped the suit suddenly last week because of a certain videotape that's floating around. That tape now commonly referred to as Carrie Prejean's sex tape.
She has admitted now in several interviews she made that sex tape, which features just her, all by herself, when she was 17 years old. She says she made it for her boyfriend. When the women of "The View" on ABC asked her about it, listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PREJEAN: I trusted my boyfriend at the time, you know. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that it would actually be coming out. Not saying that that's OK. You know, that it wouldn't come out. But, you know, it was the biggest mistake of my life. And it's embarrassing even talking about this right now. I've been on national TV discussing the worst mistake of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: On the show, she was asked directly if she dropped the lawsuit because pageant organizers told her they had this tape and even had shown it to her. Her response: everything in mediation was supposed to be private. So she is, quote, "upholding the contract" and not commenting on that. How convenient -- Anderson?
COOPER: So the -- I have not had a chance to look at the book. I know Donald Trump, I guess, is upset about some things that she says about him in the book. Any passages really stand out?
KAYE: Oh, yes. Many of them do, actually. Just so happened she writes one passage about pornography. Given her sex tape, that's a bit ironic, we thought.
She writes about how mainstream pornography has become how hard corps porn, as she put it, is just a click away. She writes, quote, "Girls grow up in a culture where it is hard to have an innocent, healthy, normal view of themselves," adding, "our bodies are temples of the Lord. We should earn respect and admiration for our hearts, not for showing skin to look sexy. Outer beauty can only get you so far in life."
COOPER: So how -- what is she -- what is she doing now?
KAYE: She's having a tough time. Yes. She said she's really having a tough time. She's relying on her faith, family, and millions of supporters. She says the book is certainly helping her get through this. She says she was punished, fired and brutally attacked for expressing freedom of speech. And the book lets others know the real story, Anderson, of what happened to her.
COOPER: All right. Randi, thanks.
We asked Lisa Bloom, legal analyst, to help sort all this out.
Lisa, what do you think the reason so many people have strong opinions about this woman? I mean, is it driven -- as she says -- by a liberal media which is out to get her because of her political views? Or is it that she's, you know, trying to milk her 15 minutes of fame? Or what -- what do you think the fascination is?
BLOOM: Well, it's probably a combination of some of those.
And keep in mind, it wasn't just the comments that she made at the Miss USA pageant. But that afterwards she chose to become an activist against gay marriage. She put herself out into the public arena. And so, yes, she did take a fair amount of shots.
But many people have criticized her for the hypocrisy. Remember, she signed a contract with the pageant that she had not appeared in any nude or seminude photographs. And immediately, thereafter there are topless photos came out.
At that time she said, "Well, this is the only one. There isn't anything else." And Donald Trump stood beside her, allowed her to retain her crown. And now this. Another lie, because she clearly said on her contract, which I took a look at again today, that she did not have anything out there like this.
Now she was 17 years old. You can call it a youthful indiscretion. But it was only a few years earlier. And she did clearly lie to the pageant officials and say there wasn't anything out there nude or seminude of her.
COOPER: In her defense and just -- I'm not taking sides here, but just, you know, she says no one is saying anything to defend her, you know, whoever released this tape -- say it's true that she sent it to her boyfriend. It's pretty sleazy for this guy to release this tape or for somebody, you know, who had a connection to this guy to release the tape. And by...
BLOOM: That's right.
COOPER: By -- now that it's out there, even kind of talking about it just kind of -- it's like supporting somebody who's...
BLOOM: Whose privacy has been violated.
COOPER: Yes. It seems inappropriate.
BLOOM: I'll take it one step further, Anderson. The reason why a lot of celebrity Web sites have indicated they're not showing the tape -- and I don't think the tape is up on the Internet anywhere -- is potentially it's child pornography.
She was 17 years old at the time. A lot of 17-year-olds across the country have been accused of child pornography for making sex tapes of themselves, even just taking naked photos of themselves and sending them across cell phones. So that's a cautionary tale, I think, in this case for any website or media outlet that wanted to post it, nevertheless, the information that exists is out there. And so we're all talking about it.
I think it's fascinating that if this came up in the context of settlement negotiations where this was used against her in settlement negotiations, you know, there's a question I have about whether that's fair to her or not.
COOPER: Well, there's also -- there is other people that argue it's very cynically that this sex tape just happens to surface before her book comes out and, you know, is it possibly some sort of drumming up publicity? I guess we shall never know. We'll have to read the next version of the book.
KAYE: Well, that's -- that's right, Anderson. I think she does seem genuinely upset that it's out there. I think the book dropping on its own would have generated enough media interest in her. She would have done "the view" and the media rounds. So probably that's not the reason.
COOPER: All right. Lisa bloom, appreciate it.
Up next, united airlines pilot accused of being drunk and removed from the plane moments before takeoff. How could this have even gone happen? We'll have the details on that.
And at the top of the hour, new details about what may have motivated the gunman suspected in the Fort Hood rampage. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Let's get the latest on some other important stories we're following. Erica Hill has a "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Erica.
HILL: Anderson, a United Airlines pilot charged with being drunk on duty. British authorities say he was actually pulled from a Chicago-bound fight just before takeoff on Monday. It happened at London's Heathrow Airport. United is conducting a full investigation. The pilot has been removed from service.
A Florida judge rules three teenagers accused of setting a 15- year-old friend on fire will be held without bond on adult charges of attempted murder. They are expected to be arraigned next week.
Michael Brewer, meantime, remains in critical condition with burns over nearly two-thirds of his body. Police say he was attacked after reporting a stolen bicycle.
Robert Joel Halderman, the CBS News producer accused of trying to extort $2 million from "Late Show" host David Letterman back in court today. His lawyer filed a motion to dismiss the indictment. A hearing is scheduled for January.
And you may want to get a jump-start on your holiday shopping. How about a trinket from the Bernie Madoff collection? Scores of his personal belongings are being auctioned off on Saturday. Now, some of the bling is predictable. You know, there are the diamond earrings, rings. I would take any of them, Anderson. Several Rolex watches. One of them valued at more than $87,000. But I'm a more modest...
COOPER: Eight-seven grand for a watch?
HILL: Just one of them, yes. You don't have to buy...
COOPER: That's crazy.
HILL: You know, you can personalize that Mets jacket that you just saw, valued at under $800. And if perhaps your budget isn't quite that large, there's always the wooden decoy hunting duck you just saw. It's under $100.
COOPER: Who would pay $80,000 something for a watch? That is crazy.
HILL: I think that's an excellent question, and it's used.
COOPER: They must have -- people must do it because they make them.
COOPER: All right. Serious -- serious stuff at the top of the hour. New details in the case against the alleged Fort Hood gunman and what President Obama had to say about the justice he'll face in this world and the next. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Tonight, new clues to what drove the alleged Fort Hood gunman and whether he was acting alone. The very latest as 15,000 troops and their commander in chief gather to honor their fall comrades and seek comfort together.