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NANCY GRACE
Anthonys` PI Reportedly Knew Location of Caylee`s Remains
Aired January 7, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home confirmed those of Caylee. Manner of death, homicide, the little girl`s remains completely skeletonized, making cause of death nearly impossible to determine, this after a utility meter reader stumbles on a garbage bag, and a tiny human skull literally rolls out, covered in light-colored hair, hair still intact due to thick duct tape wrapped around the child`s head.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, we learn that second autopsy demanded by the defense is complete. So why -- can somebody tell me why -- do Caylee`s remains still sit all alone in a cardboard box in an Orlando funeral home? No move whatsoever to lay this little girl to rest. Tonight, the shocking possibility images of little Caylee`s remains, her tiny skeleton, may be sold rears its ugly head. A judge set to hear motions to stop the sale, but can he do it? The battle over photos of Caylee`s remains erupts in court, and we have the documents.
Also tonight, a source confirms extremely disturbing reports the Anthonys` private eye found little Caylee`s remains nearly a month -- a month -- before police, but they said nothing! They`re denying it, of course. And did lawyers for George and Cindy Anthony meet with prosecutors? Why?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDFATHER: My wife fell apart. She said, George, we lost her. We lost her. And I said, Lost who? Lost who? She said, Caylee.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stunning developments just moments ago in the case of 2-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. According to a member of the defense team, little Caylee`s remains have now undergone a second autopsy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The manner of death in this case is homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George and Cindy Anthony have said that Caylee will be laid to rest once the second autopsy is completed.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: My heart is killing me right now to say it, even if it`s going into -- my granddaughter is not -- no longer alive. If we lost my granddaughter, I`ve lost my daughter.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cooper (ph) says Mr. Casey told him Caylee was dead and that Mr. Casey knew where the remains were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, Orange County prosecutors are concerned that three disks containing X-rays and photos of the skull and bones of little Caylee could be released to the public when they`re given over to the defense. A showdown is looming in court, where the judge is expected to hear arguments as to whether these three disks should be given to the tot mom`s defense team.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: My only concern, next to Caylee, is you guys -- my only concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news. A second autopsy of little Caylee complete as war breaks out over the sale of images of this child`s remains, photos of her tiny skeleton. Absolutely unacceptable!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The skeletal remains found on December 11 are those of the missing toddler Caylee Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The skeletonized remains of little Caylee found just yards from her own home have now reportedly gone through a second autopsy. Forensic scientist Dr. Henry Lee says the skull and bones of little Caylee were examined by Dr. Werner Spitz.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That distinct odor, that`s something you never forget. I believe something was placed in the back of that trunk. I don`t want to believe it was my granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that the second autopsy has been completed, both public and private memorial serves are expected to be scheduled in the coming days.
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S GRANDMOTHER: We`re a grieving family, frustrated as heck because -- I didn`t even care where Casey was at. I still don`t care where Casey`s at. All I want is Caylee back. Do you understand that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also today, a battle over disks containing X-rays and photos of the remains of Caylee has caused a stir, with the state alleging that once the documents leave their office that they could be sold for profit. An emergency hearing has been scheduled tomorrow, where prosecutors will ask the judge to place certain restrictions on the X-rays and photos should they be given to the defense team.
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t care about the media. I don`t care about what people have been saying about me. All I want is Caylee home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, standing by there at that funeral home. What`s the latest?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, the latest is we`ve learned now that that second autopsy that we`ve been waiting for happened -- actually happened about five days ago. We don`t know what the hold-up for this funeral service is. We thought that the hold-up for the funeral service was that the second autopsy hadn`t been completed. Now we learn that that did happen actually about five days ago by Werner Spitz. You know that he has been made famous in cases such as Nicole Brown Simpson and JonBenet Ramsey.
GRACE: Straight out to a special guest joining us tonight from New Haven, Connecticut, Dr. Henry Lee, famed forensic scientist, expert for the Anthony defense team. He is a distinguished professor out of the University of New Haven. Dr. Lee, thank you for being with us. Dr. Henry Lee, you have confirmed for us that the second autopsy is complete. What can you tell us?
HENRY LEE, PH.D., FORENSIC SCIENTIST, DEFENSE EXPERT: Well, I`ve just confirmed, you know, we understand Dr. Werner Spitz did conduct a second autopsy about five, six days ago.
GRACE: Has there been any move for the family to have a burial?
LEE: Well, this between (ph) the family and attorneys. As an expert, of course, there are many other things have to do. We have to look at our original autopsy, photo X-ray to compare once the second autopsy because we thought (ph) the original photo and X-ray really difficult to see what`s happened before.
GRACE: But Dr. Henry Lee, to compare X-rays does not require that this child`s skeleton sit in a cardboard box in a funeral home.
LEE: Well, if there are any tests have to be done, it`s better right now we can conduct all the tests that we can do. Once it`s buried, it`s going to -- you know, if some tests have to be done and now you have to exhumation the body, create more problems and more psychological pressure for the family if you have to pick up the body again.
GRACE: Well, Dr. Henry Lee, the body is completely skeletonized, according to our sources. So what test -- there`s no tissue to test. So why do you still need to perform tests? If all you need to do is compare X-rays, that could have already been done.
LEE: Well, we have to know whether or not they can complete a toxicology test, any other evidence collected by the prosecution. What`s the laboratory result? Without any laboratory result, without any report, without any photographs, it`s very difficult defense expert to do anything, to compare anything.
GRACE: Well, Dr. Henry Lee, toxicology results would come back from tissue and hair. Why would you need Caylee`s skeleton based on toxicology reports?
LEE: Well, we have to know which hair, you know, what tissue to...
GRACE: But that...
LEE: ... whether or not have anything to compare with.
GRACE: But that has nothing do with the skeleton.
LEE: Skeleton...
GRACE: Hair and tissue...
LEE: It`s not my decision. Don`t ask me this question. I don`t make any decisions.
GRACE: But what I`m saying is you`re saying...
(CROSSTALK)
LEE: ... forensic end, as a forensic scientist. We have to look at what the prosecution report result is. Without any photographic result, nothing we can do.
GRACE: OK, Dr. Henry Lee...
LEE: Yes.
GRACE: ... tissue and hair results have nothing to do with this child`s skeleton.
LEE: The skeleton...
GRACE: Would you agree to that?
LEE: ... you have to examine microscopically because only determine - - if the manner of the death still a questionable thing and the cause of death unknown, (INAUDIBLE) to looking into all the detail.
GRACE: Joining me also tonight, Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver. What would toxicology results on tissue and hair have to do -- or how could they possibly hold up the burial of these skeletal remains?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I don`t rightly know the answer to your question. A person who does the second autopsy should take small samples so that they can do their own tests. But after those samples are taken, I don`t know of a reasonable reason to hold up the burial.
GRACE: Agreed. Dr. Henry Lee, who performed the second autopsy?
LEE: Dr. Spitz.
GRACE: Right. An esteemed doctor in his own right, Dr. Werner Spitz, correct?
LEE: Right.
GRACE: Henry, when was the autopsy completed?
LEE: I think approximately five, six days ago.
GRACE: Five or six days ago. Was it done there at the funeral home?
LEE: (INAUDIBLE) autopsy. Basically, it`s just look at the remain. However, there are some test result haven`t come back yet.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. A lot of bombshell developments in the Caylee Anthony investigation. And with me right now, forensic scientist, famed forensic scientist and member the Anthony defense team, Dr. Henry Lee is with us. Dr. Henry Lee, what were the findings of Spitz`s autopsy?
LEE: I don`t know. You have to ask Dr. Spitz. I have no -- I haven`t received any information yet.
GRACE: Do you know who was present at the autopsy?
LEE: I don`t know, either.
GRACE: And Dr. Lee, when do you believe you are heading back to Orlando?
LEE: Once we know the, you know, crime scene -- get the crime scene photo, laboratory report, then we can probably look into what tests have to confirm (ph), what additional tests should be done. So it`s all up to when the prosecution go to release their report and release the original photograph to us.
GRACE: With us tonight exclusively, Dr. Henry Lee.
Let`s go now to Kathi Belich, reporter with WFTV. Kathi, is there confirmation that a PI who worked with the Anthonys actually knew where the skeleton was nearly a month before police were alerted?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, I can tell you that a private investigator that worked with the Anthonys and alongside their private investigator has told the lead detectives in this case from the FBI and the Orange County sheriff`s office that Dominic Casey had detailed information about where to look and that`s why he went to the scene, was to look for the remains.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This afternoon, private investigator Jim Hoover, who volunteered his services to the Anthony family, brought his camera equipment and tape to an Orlando law office, where he and his attorney met with the lead investigators from the Orange County sheriff`s office and the FBI for about three hours. When the detectives left with Hoover`s 10- minute video of the scene from November, they seemed encouraged.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) this is helpful, that this is moving you along?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I think so. Yes, very helpful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hoover and his lawyer sat down with Channel 9 minutes later and revealed some of the information Hoover shared with the detectives, that Mr. Casey called Hoover on November 14, and asked him to come to town and meet at Mr. Casey`s office. On the morning of November 15, that`s when Hoover says Mr. Casey told him Caylee was dead and that Mr. Casey knew where the remains were.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Stunning. If these allegations are true, that means the private eye who worked for the Anthonys knew where little Caylee`s remains are nearly a month before police did but said nothing and let them lay there out in the elements. That begs the question, if the private eye knew, who worked for the Anthonys, did the Anthonys know? And of course, at trial, will it be connected back to the tot mom?
Back to Kathi Belich with WFTV, who broke the story. Take me from the beginning. Tell me again what happened.
BELICH: OK. Jim Hoover told investigators today that on the 14th of November, the Anthonys` private attorney, Dominic Casey, called him and asked him to come to town and meet with Mr. Casey. On the 15th in the morning, Mr. Casey met with him at the office, and Hoover says Mr. Casey told him, Caylee is dead and I know where her remains are and we have to go look for him. Hoover says that is why they went to the scene on November 15, a Saturday, and November 16.
Hoover told investigators Dominic Casey knew where to search and what to look for, and they specifically went to that location to do a detailed search of that location. Hoover says when he was there on those two days, they did not find the body. He says that Dominic Casey went back to that scene at least two other times after that without Hoover. We don`t know if he was alone or he was with anyone else. But that`s the new information.
GRACE: OK. To bounty hunter Leonard Padilla joining us out of Sacramento, California. He`s been saying this for some time now. Leonard, now you can tell everybody "I told you so."
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I`m not going do that because there`s more to the story than that.
GRACE: Oh, Lord. Hit me.
PADILLA: Well, you don`t want to hear about Kronk, do you.
GRACE: Are you back to saying the meter reader got his information from someone at the jail?
PADILLA: I don`t know where he got it, OK?
GRACE: OK.
PADILLA: But he definitely got information from somebody because he was out there on the 11th. He was out -- back out there on September the 2nd. And he finally, finally on the 11th of December exposed the body by calling law enforcement. That`s no coincidence on anything like that. It just...
GRACE: Well, if the information came from the jail, it obviously came from the tot mom.
PADILLA: It had to come from Casey through somebody. I would assume it was Lee. Lee passed it onto somebody, who passed it on to Kronk.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer, who`s been on the case since the very beginning. Anything that you can add, Natisha?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, these things that Leonard are saying are pretty shocking, Nancy. But one of the things that we are finding out which is pretty interesting is that the Anthonys, they had this tip at the Florida mall, which was the 16th, which would have been the day after they were out there at this site where the remains were found, and they were carrying on with this tip. So if the investigator knew that the remains were out there, that`s going to be a lot of questions that they have to answer.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. Out of New York, Susan Moss, child advocate, Alex Sanchez, veteran defense attorney, and out of the Florida jurisdiction, Joe Episcopo, a veteran trial lawyer, knows his way around the courtroom. Weigh in, Susan Moss.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: If they knew where this body was hidden, Caylee (SIC) will stay in the jail where she`s sitting. This is a bombshell, and this is really going to have the prosecution rethink whether they`re going to go for a higher than just life in prison. They may go for the death penalty.
GRACE: Sanchez?
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is very interesting information, but the question I have as a defense lawyer is how is this going to somehow be incorporated into the criminal trial? Is the prosecution going to be able to connect all these dots and call all these witnesses to establish what, there was some type of a conspiracy? I think it ultimately will be valueless.
GRACE: Episcopo, it`s not necessarily a conspiracy. It`s the fact that if the allegations are true -- and right now, Dominic Casey is apparently denying them -- if they are true, then the Anthony investigator knows where the body is. Where did he get the information?
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he might have got it from the defendant. You know, it`s amazing. She hasn`t really told anybody anything. This is the first time we`ve gotten any kind of possible admission to something. So I don`t know. Maybe it really isn`t true at all. I would say this has nothing to do with making this a death penalty case. The aggravating factors that are required by the statute are not here.
GRACE: To leave a child`s body out in the woods, out in the elements, just so time can pass and it will become more and more skeletonized, less and less able to identify the cause of death? You know what, I disagree with you. Susan, what about it?
MOSS: Well, it make the case so much easier to prove. And if you make this case so much easier to prove, I think a jury may want to do than do more than just life.
GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist joining us out of New York. If these allegations are true, it points directly back to the tot mom sitting behind bars, knowing where her child`s body is and letting it degenerate, letting it deteriorate day after day. Hurricane Fay comes. The water rises. The water goes down, and she knows her child`s bones are out there in the woods?
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. If this is true, if it turns out to be true, it will confirm what a lot of her behavior has kind of indicated up until now, which is that she knows way more than she`s telling and she`s protecting herself.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, what do you make of it?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I tell you what, Nancy. What I -- number one, let`s subpoena the cell phone records of both Casey and Hoover. If there was a lot of activity on those days in November -- you know, let`s say we can find out exactly who they were talking to, where the information came from because Casey can`t claim any kind of privilege whatsoever. Secondly, if we want to find out whether they`re telling the truth, hey, why not give them a polygraph. If they have nothing to hide, let the FBI give them a polygraph.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Denise in Massachusetts. Hi, Denise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you today?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`ve been listening to you and I have so many questions. But my main question is, if somebody is convicted of a crime where she`s in jail for a crime, why would they let these pictures go? Why can`t the court sanction that and stop these pictures from being released?
GRACE: Well, right now, she`s not convicted of a crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understand that.
GRACE: She is simply charged. You know what? That`s an excellent question. And a similar issue came up after the death of racing legend Dale Earnhardt, "The Intimidator." Remember his autopsy photos were about to be released and it was stopped. What about it, Joe Episcopo? Can the release of these photos of the skeleton of little Caylee be stopped from release?
EPISCOPO: No because the race car incident was not a criminal matter. This is a criminal matter. The defense has a right to it and the constitutional...
GRACE: But do they have a right to sell them and make money?
EPISCOPO: That`s -- but they`re not -- that`s not what they`re saying. That`s an accusation that people are making. They have a right...
GRACE: Do you know how much money has already been made off Caylee photos so far? Over $200,000, allegedly.
EPISCOPO: You can`t presume the defense is going do that. They have a right to the photos. If they take that action afterwards, then they`ll have to deal with it accordingly. But all they need is to see them. That`s what they`re trying to do.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: We never really got a full description of Zanny. They told us that you couldn`t pull her out of a line-up.
CASEY ANTHONY: They`re full of (DELETED). I told them multiple times, Find a sketch artist. Show me pictures. Show me something. I can point her out to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A major decision could be imminent in the Caylee Anthony case in Florida. A judge could decide whether Casey Anthony will face questioning by lawyers representing Zenaida Gonzalez as early as tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Battle erupts over the possible sale of photos of little Caylee`s remains. Motions set for tomorrow. If you think it`s not true, take a look at the money already made off little Caylee.
Out to the lines. Maria in New York. Hi, Maria.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in and for watching. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I actually have a question for the lawyers. If Casey did confess to her attorney, Mr. Baez, that she did commit this heinous crime, what responsibility, knowing that she did do it?
GRACE: Joe?
EPISCOPO: If she is going to take the stand and say that she didn`t do it, then the attorney has to approach the bench. He has to tell the judge that his client is going to testify against his wishes, that he`s not going to ask any questions. He`s going to introduce her and let her give a narration. And that`s how it`s done.
GRACE: And very quickly, Dr. Henry Lee, what lab is performing the tests for the defense?
LEE: Well, right now, we don`t even have any samples to perform in the test. We`re waiting for the prosecution to release all the samples to us. It`s very important. We don`t even know how many...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutor in the case against Casey Anthony don`t want to release three disks of digital photos of her daughter`s remains to Jose Baez unless and until a judge orders some special conditions.
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Their fear is that they will reproduce them and sell them for a profit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don`t want them to be copied. They don`t want them to be printed. They don`t want the Baez firm to be able to send these either through e-mail or snail mail.
They want anyone who looks at them to only be able to do it in Jose Baez` presence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A spokesman for Baez told us, it`s only delaying tactics. We can take our own pictures during the second autopsy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The skeletonized remains of little Caylee found just yards from her own home have now reportedly gone to a second autopsy. An emergency hearing has been scheduled tomorrow where prosecutors will ask the judge to place certain restriction on the x-rays and photos should they be given to the defense team.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We have the documents, the motions flying back and forth between the defense and the prosecution regarding the possible sale of images of little Caylee`s skeleton. That`s set down to be heard tomorrow morning.
Joining us outside of the funeral home where the remains are being stored, Kathi Belich with WFTV and Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO.
Kathi Belich, you`re there outside of the funeral home. Do they have any security, whatsoever?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV, COVERING STORY: You know I -- don`t see any security here right now. And service unrelated, obviously, just let out a few moments ago. But I don`t see anything special outside of this building to indicate there`s any special security here.
GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx, what can you tell me about the measures, if any, they are taking?
PETRIMOULX: We don`t see any extra security out here. In fact, one of the camera guys was telling me that he walked around the back the other day, and it`s a dark alley. There`s a back entrance and the front, it`s not a very secure place.
I mean there`s big glass windows. There -- there seems to be no extra security men. It doesn`t seem like a particularly secure building so, you know, that`s that.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, I`m taking a look at how much money`s already been made off little Caylee. ABC News allegedly pays $200,000 to licensed home video. $200,000. Baez allegedly intended to sell an interview with the tot mom for $500,000. Half a million dollars.
NBC News allegedly paid $5,000 for photo licensing.
What does that mean? Photo licensing, what is that?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. And don`t forget also there is Larry Garrison who is the Anthony spokes person who is paid $6500 from NBC as well for licensing photos. But basically.
GRACE: Now wait a minute, are these photo licensing fees in conjunction with an interview with anybody?
LANCE: Well, they don`t necessarily have to be in conjunction with the interview.
GRACE: Well, were they? That`s what I`m asking you. When they interviewed someone related to the case is that when they paid the licensing fee for the photo?
LANCE: Well, the ABC one, allegedly, that one was with "20/20." There was nobody from the family who is interviewed. Jose Baez was interviewed in that one.
With NBC, there were some interviews that took place with Cindy Anthony, George Anthony along the way. But we don`t know, for sure, if these photos came along with the packaged deal with the interview.
GRACE: Right now, as we go to air, we just learned the second autopsy on little Caylee`s remains is complete. And yet she sits, most likely, according to reports, in a cardboard box at a local funeral home.
No move whatsoever to lay this child to rest. And now a frenzy of motions filed over the possible sell of photos of her skeleton. That`s what it boils down to tonight.
In court tomorrow, what`s to happen, Natisha?
LANCE: Nancy, in court tomorrow, the first hearing is supposed to be on Casey Anthony`s/Zenaida Gonzalez. And they are going to argue -- Zenaida Gonzalez` attorneys are going to argue that Casey should be deposed on Monday, where the defense is saying that she should not be deposed before her trial.
GRACE: What else?
LANCE: Also, after that one, there is going to be the hearing about the photos. The three disks that have the x-rays as well as crime scene photos on those disks. Now the prosecution is saying that they don`t want these photos to be released to the public.
In the past, the defense has allegedly been paid money for photos. And they don`t want that to happen again in the future.
GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Susan Moss, Alex Sanchez, Joe Episcopo.
Alex Sanchez, now, let`s talk about in reality. Can the judge actually stop the sell of photos of Caylee`s remains, if the defense, say, sends the photos via the Internet?
To defense experts. There`s nothing wrong with that.
All right, if they do that, and what if a computer copy person sees the photo and tries to sell it to, say "The Enquirer," who knows who.
Can a judge actually control this? I mean this motion asks for the defense not to send it by Internet. Not to send it by mail. But even the experts have to come to Florida to Jose Baez` office. And sit with him while they look at the photos.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. A law that can`t be enforced is not much of a law. And it -- let`s say Mr. Baez has to fax this information or e-mail it to somebody in Indiana, you know, Florida does not have control over Indiana.
So if someone in Indiana takes that disk and decides to sell it, the Florida judge has no jurisdiction then.
GRACE: Alex, that was beautiful. But does it mean, no, it can`t be enforced? Is that what you`re saying?
SANCHEZ: That`s what I`m saying.
GRACE: OK, I think -- I think I interpreted that correctly.
To Susan Moss, the reality is the defense has a right to use experts. They can use out-of-state experts if they want to. But the judge could try and order the experts, the defense force their experts to come to Florida and look at them in his office. \ But that could be reversed on appeal.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Absolutely. But this judge does have the authority to make sure that Jose does what, and only what this judge let`s him do. So if this judge says that Jose is not allowed to transmit those photos, Jose better not do it. And that`s how he would enforce this law.
It may be overturned on an appeal but the judge certainly has authority over Jose.
GRACE: I`ll tell you another big issue that`s going to be at trial is did this private investigator get knowledge of where the body was from the tot mom.
Now I want to go back to Joe Episcopo. Joe, if the investigator`s working for the Anthony family, that`s not necessarily for the tot mom. So they don`t have confidentiality whatsoever. He`s not really with the defense. So he can be forced to testify.
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, you know, I`ve been thinking about that. That`s exactly what would happen because you`ve got to have that direct connection between the defendant and the -- investigator. And you know -- the defense attorney.
You all have that privilege because you`re all working together. But another investigator not in the defense team, there could be a problem with trying to assert privilege.
GRACE: You`re darn right. You`re darn right. There`s not going to be a confidentiality argument for him to make like attorney/client parishioner. There`s husband/wife privilege.
No, no, no, no. That does not exist unless you are working for the defense.
EPISCOPO: Correct.
GRACE: For the defendant.
I want to go back to the lines. Dawn in Illinois, hi, Dawn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`m just curious how the time line coincides. When the Anthonys request an immunity does that -- I mean, that coincides perfectly with, obviously, the defense team was notified where the body was. And also how does it coincide with Lee Anthony`s rumor of legal problems? Get an attorney waiver.
You know, all of these -- all happened all at once, but which one happened first?
GRACE: What about it, Natisha? How did the timeline play out? When did the Anthonys first want immunity? When did Lee Anthony get a lawyer, and when do we believe the Private I found out where the remains were?
LANCE: Well, they first started asking for immunity. If you remember they got this attorney when they were coming back from California. And the immunity questions started coming into play not too long after that.
GRACE: Coming back from California, but that is exactly -- remember they were in California...
LANCE: Right.
GRACE: . when police found the remains back, I believe, December 11th.
LANCE: Correct. So this is right after the remains were found. Now, Lee Anthony just got an attorney about a week ago. So this is not too long ago but all of these things are lining up right -- one after another.
GRACE: Which brings up the question, to you, Leonard Padilla, if the Anthony family, private I knows where the remains are, does this mean that all along George and Cindy Anthony have known where the remains were?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHED FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: No. No, I don`t believe so but let me explain something else.
GRACE: I just cannot -- I cannot believe that.
PADILLA: No, no, that`s not there. They -- I don`t even know when they might have known before the -- December the 11th. But let me explain something, the $1.7 million deal that Lifetime has on the table, according to Todd Black, has been tabled pending whether they get indicted or not.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have seen private investigator Jim Hoover with the video camera before but today the focus is on a videotape he says recorded of this wooded area, where Caylee Marie Anthony`s remains were found about a month before they were found.
PADILLA: I say how can you have a film of the area? He says, well, Dominic called me on the 15th, told me Caylee had been found. Hoover told me that he asked him, is she alive? He says no, she`s dead but we`re going to go get her right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Hoover knows who told Mr. Casey that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he does not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Mr. Hoover know who Mr. Casey is on the telephone when he was (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he does not. And these are beliefs that -- based on his recollection that there were numerous telephone calls during the course of the 15th search and the 16th search.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines. To Arusyak in Indiana. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. God bless you and your family.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question -- thank you. My question, there was telling us before when I was following your program, months ago before they find the body, I remember one of the lawyer, I don`t know the name, I`m not very good to remember the name, but they kind of tried to tell us that there is no body, there is no case.
Now we have the body. What else they waiting for? We are in 2009. We need to find out what happened to that child. They have to.
GRACE: You know, interesting question.
To Drew Petrimoulx, will this case go forward in March? Do you believe it`s going forward?
PETRIMOULX: That`s a tough one to say. And you know you would think that what would depend is this whole Zenaida Gonzalez case where she`s filed a whole defamation lawsuit against them, and that lawsuit has to go forward and that trial has to take place.
You would imagine that it could be pushed back after that. Also there are hundreds of witnesses that have to be called in this case. The examination, as Dr. Henry Lee was saying, still hasn`t taken place from other people in the defense team. So there`s still a lot of leg work that has to be done before this trial can take place.
GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Joe Episcopo, just because the defense drags its feet, it`s not a reason to delay the trial. It`s my understanding in the Florida jurisdiction, you get put on a trial calendar, you go to trial.
EPISCOPO: Well, first of all, you have your speedy trial, right, which is -- you know, statutory 180 days.
GRACE: Believe me they`re not waiving that flag in the courtroom.
EPISCOPO: Right.
GRACE: The defense is not screaming for a speedy trial.
EPISCOPO: Correct. And they`re not going to. And by the way this civil case.
GRACE: Of course if they have any brain they would have done it before the body was found. But they didn`t.
EPISCOPO: Well, there`s a lot of things. But this civil case isn`t going to -- isn`t going to interfere with this at all.
GRACE: No.
EPISCOPO: That`s going to stop. That`s going to be abated.
GRACE: So bottom line, yes, no, will it go forward in March?
EPISCOPO: Well, obviously, if the judge pushes the defense before they`re ready, that`s an appellate issue.
GRACE: Before they`re ready.
EPISCOPO: Yes, that`s right.
GRACE: Well, they can sit on their thumb until March, Sanchez, saying I`m not ready.
EPISCOPO: No, they`re going to argue that the state`s delaying the case by not letting the photos. You see they have a counter argument against all this. The case won`t go to trial in March.
GRACE: What about it, Alex?
SANCHEZ: You know if the prosecution wins that argument tomorrow about having Baez, have very limited scope over those photographs, this case is going to last until 2015. Because it`s going to take forever to bring the experts into Florida.
GRACE: Right.
SANCHEZ: . to review these information with Baez and for Baez to go to California or to Washington state. So the prosecution, they better be careful for what they`re wishing for.
GRACE: Yes, Oscar While, be careful for what you wish, you will surely get it.
Susan Moss, what about it? I`ve got a feeling the judge is going to force them forward.
MOSS: This is the slow leading the slow. I think that judge is going to try to force them forward, but with all of these motions and the fact that nobody has really taken effort to look at the evidence that they have let alone the more evidence that Jose Baez is now asking for, they`re not going to be ready by March.
And I don`t think the judge is going to jeopardize an appeal to push them forward.
GRACE: Back to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI.
Mike, what duty would the private I have had? He`s not working for Casey Anthony, the tot mom. He`s working for the Anthony family.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Exactly.
GRACE: He knows where the child`s body is? I mean how do you just sit on information like that?
BROOKS: You know I don`t know, you know. And Dominic Casey, he`s trying to distance himself now from Hoover. You know how many times has his story changed, Nancy? You know because.
GRACE: You mean, Hoover`s or Casey`s?
BROOKS: Casey. You know, he now -- because now -- we heard from Leonard, that he had called Hoover. And now Casey -- Dominic Casey saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, I`m distancing myself. He wasn`t working for me. So as I said bring them in there. Put them on the box. Let`s see what they had to say. And you know what?
GRACE: Well, you can`t force anybody to take a polygraph.
BROOKS: No, you can`t
GRACE: That`s not going to happen.
BROOKS: But if he has nothing to hide, Nancy, why not? And also, you know, with -- Leonard`s conspiracy theory with Kronk, bring him in and see if he would also take a polygraph to -- just totally put that conspiracy theory out of window.
GRACE: But, you know, bottom line on that, Leonard Padilla, as far as Kronk goes, the meter reader who found the body, really, what difference does it make where he got his information? If it was hearsay, tot mom told so-and-so, told so-and-so, he found out. It`s not going into trial.
Bottom line is he`s the one who called police.
So Leonard Padilla, when you first learned about this phone call, you immediately contacted the authorities, correct?
PADILLA: Absolutely. I couldn`t dial Savage`s cell phone quick enough.
GRACE: And so.
PADILLA: I`d already been threatened with a lie detector test once before.
GRACE: Yes, you know, you`re right. You`re right. And they never followed through with that, did they?
PADILLA: No. So why shouldn`t everybody else be threatened with the same thing? I think Kronk`s already taken the lie detector test. I think Savage has already got him over a barrel. Savage has -- given it up. They`re just trying to figure out how to put the case together.
See, if Kronk gives up all of that information and it leads back to Casey, how is she going to say I didn`t kill my daughter?
GRACE: So tell me, when Hoover told you about this conversation with the P.I., was he concerned that the remains are laying out in a wooded area?
PADILLA: No, he was more interested in how much money he was going to be able to sell the film for.
GRACE: And what did you tell him?
PADILLA: Upwards of $200,000.
GRACE: What did you tell him about contacting authorities?
PADILLA: I told him he should contact the authorities, had he contacted him -- I mentioned it two or three times.
GRACE: And to you, Susan Moss, is there any legal liability, criminal liability, when you know where a murdered body is and you sit on it?
MOSS: He does not have the obligation to come forward. But there is nothing so cold as trying for a movie rights to be sold on this. This is just awful.
GRACE: You`re right. In our American jurisprudence justice system there`s no duty to be a Good Samaritan. You don`t have to volunteer information. You can look the other way. You can wash your hands of it like you don`t even know what`s happening, and you cannot be prosecuted.
Out to the lines, Laurie in California. Hi, Laurie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Quick question. If I`m right, didn`t George and Cindy stop visiting Casey before Thanksgiving and haven`t been back to visit since? Which makes me wonder if.
GRACE: They certainly did. What about it, Kathi Belich?
BELICH: Well, they have not visited her since she was indicted and went back to jail on October 14th. We have not been able to find out why. The defense says that they don`t want their every word being videotaped.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to a member of the defense team, little Caylee`s remains have now undergone a second autopsy. Now that the second autopsy has been completed, both public and private memorial services are expected to be scheduled in the coming days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s put this little girl to rest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines of Monica in Minnesota. Hi, Monica.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`ve got a question that involves Leonard`s theory.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess I believe totally in what he`s saying, but I wanted to add something else to it. I`ve been following the case since the beginning. There was one sighting that sounded very credible where a woman said she`d seen a white car and she thought it was a friend of hers, so she slowed down.
And that she`d seen a woman coming out wearing a baseball cap. And this was real early in the case. Now, Casey had a shovel, had borrowed a shovel from her neighbor, yet the remains that were found were not buried at all and no signs of any attempt to bury them.
Could she not have been buried the remains -- buried there, and when people started to really search that area, at that time, I wonder if possibly Lee might have been tipped off and the remains moved to where they were moved to?
GRACE: What about it, Leonard Padilla?
PADILLA: No, I don`t think so. I think on the 24th..
GRACE: I don`t either.
PADILLA: . she just took the body right around the corner there from the house when her dad almost found it. Law enforcement thinks it was on the 18th. The shovel, you understand, was returned over to the neighbor. He then turned it over to the detectives.
As far as the baseball hat, if you look at the woman who was removing the garbage.
GRACE: Right.
PADILLA: . you`ll see the hat in the garbage bag which is the same hat that belonged to her friend Annie. The hat seems to have been torn up because she was upset or something. I don`t know why the hat ended up in the garbage.
GRACE: Tomorrow morning these motions to be heard in court.
But let`s stop now and remember Marine Staff Sergeant Danny Dupree, 28, Lockport, Louisiana, killed Iraq on a fourth tour. An active member of his high school ROTC program. Joined up right after graduation. Assigned to the Marines` elite silent drill platoon.
Leaves behind grandmother Hilda, grieving wife Crystal, son Daniel.
Danny Dupree, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And a special happy birthday to our number one fan, Mary Lou Murphy, who tunes in every night from Pennsylvania.
Happy birthday, Mary Lou.
I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
