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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Auto Bailout Gathers Momentum in Congress; O.J. Simpson Heads to Prison
Aired December 5, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We're following breaking news on a bailout for the Big Three car companies, new details tonight on a dollar figure and where the money could be coming from.
Dana Bash is working her sources. She's going to bring us that shortly, all the latest of what appears to be a deal in the making, fueled by especially grim new economic data. We will get to that.
We begin, though, tonight with O.J. Simpson. He is going to prison, a judge today ensuring that he spends at least nine years behind bars. He could serve as much as 33 years, all for a cheesy robbery in a seedy Vegas hotel with a pack of shady characters. He's 61 years old now. With good behavior, he could be out by age 70 -- his sentence today for armed robbery, kidnapping, and conspiracy.
The judge insisted this was not, but plenty of people are taking this to be a kind of delayed sentence for the murders of his wife Nicole and her friend, Ron Goldman, more than 14 years ago.
It has been almost that long since a criminal jury acquitted him and a civil jury later ruled him responsible for the slaughter. In that space of time, he's never shown contrition for anything. Today, though, after 14 years of notoriety in what looks like his final act in the public eye, O.J. Simpson, near tears, asked for mercy.
Here he is in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON, DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor.
I stand before you today sorry, somewhat confused.
I feel, like, apologetic to the people of the state of Nevada.
When I came here, I came here for a wedding. I didn't come here to -- I didn't come here to reclaim property. I was told it was here. When he told me that Monday that the stuff was in Nevada, when he knew I was going to be in Nevada, I called my kids. I talked to my sisters. I called the Brown family and I told them I had a chance to get some of our property back, property that over the years we've seen being sold on the Internet. We've seen pictures of ours that were stolen from our home going into the tabloids.
We've called the police and asked what to do. They have told us what to try to do. But you can never find out who was selling it. And this was the first time I had an opportunity to catch the guys red-handed who had been stealing from my family.
In the past, as we know, you heard on the tape, Mike Gilbert tried to set me up in a porn video, trick me into a room with hidden cameras and they still wrote in the newspaper, in the tabloids, they still had cover stories that O.J. did it, even though there was no porn video, even though I didn't participate in it.
I forgave Mike. I yelled at him. And I forgave him, just like I yelled at Bruce and Beardsley. And I have forgiven them. We've talked about it, Beardsley and I, the next day. And Bruce and I hugged and talked about it. His kids have called me since this. We've apologized to each other.
The only person I asked, I requested to help me here was Mr. Stewart. I did request him. I needed his car. I asked him if he had some guys to help me remove these things from the room. I didn't ask anybody to do anything but to stand behind me, allow me to yell at these guys, and then help me remove those things.
And if they wouldn't let me remove them, we would call the cops on them, because I felt that they were wrong.
But in no way did I mean to hurt anybody, to steal anything from anyone. I talked to the police officers. I volunteered immediately to come back, show them what was taken, and then tell them what took place, before anybody talked to the police. I was the first guy that volunteered to do it. And I heard on the tapes that they thought I was stupid for doing it.
But I didn't want to steal anything from anybody. I don't think anybody there said I wanted anybody else's stuff, just my own. I wanted my daughter, who -- Ms. Brown gave her, her mother's wedding ring. Stolen. You know, my kids had pictures. My oldest son has his own family now. He wanted the picture in the Oval Office with Gerald Ford when he was 5 years old. Stolen. All of these things are gone. My family knew what we were doing.
And I didn't want to hurt Bruce. I didn't want to hurt any of these guys. I know these guys. These guys have eaten in my home. I have done book reports with their kids. I have sung to their mothers when they were sick.
You know, I wasn't there to hurt anybody. I just wanted my personal things. And I realize now it was stupid of me. I am sorry. I didn't mean to steal anything from anybody. And I didn't know I was doing anything illegal. I thought I was confronting friends and retrieving my property.
So, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: O.J. Simpson in court today.
Let's dig deeper now with senior CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, author of "The Run of His Life: The People vs. O.J. Simpson," also "In Session" anchor Lisa Bloom.
Jeff, you have been following O.J. Simpson for his entire career. Watching him like that is just...
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Total...
TOOBIN: ... classic O.J.: self-pity, narcissism, delusional.
My favorite part of that is, he's sitting there awaiting sentencing. And he's talking about, well, "I forgave the other guys, I forgave them," as if he's the victim here. He never acknowledges that he did anything wrong. He says he's sorry. But he's only sorry for himself.
And the sort pathological compulsive talking, on and on and on, is also classic O.J.
LISA BLOOM, TRUTV ANCHOR: Yes, and also consider the context. He's not under oath. He could have testified at the trial. He elected not to.
TOOBIN: Right. He didn't -- he didn't -- he didn't testify at the trial.
BLOOM: He didn't testify. And, of course, he would have been subjected to cross-examination by a skilled prosecutor then. Here, he just gets to ramble, not under oath. It's a completely different context.
As the judge said, it's just too late, really, for this kind a statement.
COOPER: Do you think that he did himself any favors by rambling like this in front of the judge before sentencing?
TOOBIN: Certainly not. I don't think it would have made any difference one way or another, frankly.
Almost always in these circumstances, the judge comes in to court knowing what he or she is going to do. And I suspect that was the case here today. So, I don't think he possibly helped himself at all. Maybe he hurt himself a little, but my guess, it made no -- it made no difference.
BLOOM: Yes, actually, Judge Glass said she was surprised. She came into court expecting he was not going to make a statement. She said she was surprised that he wanted to make a statement.
Well, go ahead, Mr. Simpson. What do you have to say?
COOPER: Do any have -- either of you have any mixed feelings about this case? If this was anybody but O.J. Simpson, would this case have gone this far? Would -- would -- would the perpetrator in this case be sentenced to this amount of time? TOOBIN: I have a lot of mixed feelings about this case.
I think O.J. Simpson killed those two people, killed Ron Goldman, killed Nicole Brown Simpson, and should be serving a life sentence today for that crime.
I think this was a bizarre prosecution. I think, given the circumstances here, it is unlikely that someone else in those circumstances would be prosecuted for armed robbery, for kidnapping.
It was a very heavy prosecution and a heavy sentence. I don't feel sorry for O.J. Simpson. But it is somehow in keeping with the unhappiness of this whole case that even a bad guy going to jail doesn't work out properly.
I know you disagree.
COOPER: Lisa, you were in the courtroom...
BLOOM: Well, with all due respect -- with all due respect, yes, to Jeff, I was there for three days of this trial, and I watched every minute of it, much of it repeatedly, because we broadcast it on "In Session."
First of all, this is a guy who brought a gang of thugs and a bunch of guns into a volatile situation in a hotel room. The planning of this incident was taped. The incident was taped, and the aftermath was taped.
Now, how law enforcement overlook that in any case would be beyond me. Nevada has very strict guidelines as to what happens when someone is convicted of these kinds of charges.
COOPER: So, you think it didn't make a difference this was O.J. Simpson?
BLOOM: He got the low end of the range, Anderson. He got a very low end of the range.
Many observers thought, including the defense attorneys, thought he was going to get life in prison. He's convicted of 12 counts. It was merged to 10 counts. They could have run consecutively, meaning end to end. He could have very easily gotten a life sentence. Instead, the judge ran them concurrently, which means he could be out in nine years.
COOPER: I want to read this statement from the Brown family.
Later on, after the commercial break, we're going to play what the Goldman family had to say, but this one was from the Brown family.
"It is very sad to think that an individual who had it all, an amazing career, a beautiful wife and two precious children, has ended up like this, allowing wealth, power and control to consume himself. He made a horrific choice on June 12, 1994, which has spiraled into where he is today."
I mean, is this -- is this the end of the road for him? Is this -- is the O.J. Simpson saga over?
TOOBIN: I think -- as Lisa has explained Nevada law to me, he has at least nine years in prison. So, that takes him to age 70.
I think this is the end of the road. Yes, he will probably get out at age 70. But 70 is not a time where you change your life. Maybe he comes to some -- you know, it's a quieter time, I hope.
But this is it. His -- his career as a public figure is over, assuming that an appeal doesn't go forward.
BLOOM: I think what it depends on is if he can control his rage in prison. He's been on trial many times. This time, he's finally convicted.
It all stems from a certain rage in this man. He has got to have good behavior in prison to get out in nine years.
COOPER: We're going to talk about this more after the break, more to talk about with Lisa Bloom, Jeffrey Toobin.
We're also going to take you inside the courtroom today -- in a moment, what the judge said to Simpson and what the Goldman family had to say as well.
Let us know what think of the verdict, and also the car bailout. Join our live chat at AC360.com. You can also check out Erica Hill's live Webcast during the break.
So, what happens next to O.J. Simpson? And what happened inside the courtroom today? We will talk about that and we will show it to you next.
Also, the breaking news we're following: the outlines of a deal for Detroit taking shape in dollars, votes and jobs. Dana Bash is working her sources. She will join us for the breaking news tonight.
And see this guy there, this guy and his buddy groping the life- size cutout of Hillary Clinton? Would you believe the guy with his hand on the picture of Clinton, the guy on the left, is president- elect's top speechwriter? We are going to tell you about the uproar this picture is causing -- tonight on 360.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMPSON: You know, I wasn't there to hurt anybody. I just wanted my personal things. And I realize now it was stupid of me. I am sorry. I didn't mean to steal anything from anybody. And I didn't know I was doing anything illegal. I thought I was confronting friends and retrieving my property.
So, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: O.J. Simpson in a Las Vegas courtroom today, shortly before learning he's going to be spending at least the next nine years in the state prison.
It is the end of a very long fall that began, of course, with the taking of two lives 14-and-a-half years ago.
Here's David Mattingly.
JUDGE JACKIE GLASS, CLARK COUNTY, NEVADA, DISTRICT COURT: Go ahead and stand.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the cameras fixed on the fallen icon, father and sister of Ronald Goldman sitting just feet away, O.J. Simpson sounded emotional and confused.
SIMPSON: In no way did I mean to hurt anybody, to steal anything from anyone.
MATTINGLY: But a jury said he did. And the judge couldn't hold back her scorn.
GLASS: Earlier in this case, at a bail hearing, I asked -- I said to Mr. Simpson, I didn't know if he was arrogant or ignorant or both. And, during the trial, and through this proceeding, I got the answer. And it was both.
MATTINGLY: From star athlete and movie star to tabloid pariah, for many, it was a seemingly endless tragedy that began with a low- speed chase and crashed to a halt with a nonstop trip to prison.
(on camera): O.J.'s spiraling decline is epic. Who could forget how he smiled as a jury acquitted him on charges he killed his ex- wife, Nicole, and her friend Ron Goldman? But, for the next 13 years, he continued to cross paths with the law, sparking allegations of behavior, from the violent to the absurd.
(voice-over): 2001, Simpson was cleared of charges in an alleged case of Florida road rage -- 2002, he was fined for speeding his boat through a Florida manatee zone.
In 2003, police came to his house after his 17-year-old daughter called 911, crying and asking for help after an argument. No charges were filed -- 2004, he's ordered to pay nearly $60,000 in federal fines and fees for pirating satellite TV.
In 2005, police are called again. This time, a neighbor claims he was attacked by O.J.'s girlfriend. No charges were filed. Then, in 2007, Simpson and three other men are charged in an armed robbery at a cheap Las Vegas hotel room. It was the end of O.J.'s long- debated freedom.
(on camera): It was also the end of a long and frustrating pursuit by the family of Ron Goldman, who relentlessly went after O.J.'s money. They won a $25 million judgment in damages from a wrongful death suit, but winning proved to be a lot easier for the Goldmans than collecting.
(voice-over): When the 1997 judgment was handed down, he gave up all kinds of assets, including his golf clubs and his Heisman Trophy.
But O.J. moved to Florida and found ways to legally protect millions in personal wealth. But, in 2006, the Goldmans managed to tap 90 percent of O.J.'s publishing rights to his book "If I Did It." And, at the time of his arrest in 2007, many speculated O.J. was after his old memorabilia because he needed the money, an idea that brings Ron Goldman's father a sense of satisfaction.
FRED GOLDMAN, FATHER OF RONALD GOLDMAN: If -- if our efforts for all these years of pushing him drove him to commit burglary, armed burglary, armed robbery in Vegas, if that pushed him over the edge, great. Put him where he belongs.
MATTINGLY: Conspiracy, robbery, burglary, kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon, it could all add up to a 33-year sentence, with Simpson not eligible for parole until 2017.
David Mattingly, CNN, New York.
COOPER: The Goldmans had a lot to say today. We will bring you that in a moment and whether O.J. Simpson would have gotten a lighter sentence had it not been for his notorious past. Jeff Toobin and Lisa Bloom are back to talk about all aspects -- also, more of what the judge had to say in the courtroom.
Also, they're accused of holding a teenage boy captive in chains for more than a year, two of the suspects in the court today, one of them a Girl Scout leader -- and the boy's brother for the first time speaking out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He hasn't grown an inch since I have seen him. He's still -- still the same kid. He can probably lay down on a bed and I wouldn't know he was there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Plus, breaking news on the Big Three bailout, word of a deal taking shape -- details ahead on 360.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
F. GOLDMAN: We're thrilled. It's kind of a bittersweet moment, knowing that that SOB is going to be in jail for a very long time, where he belongs. It was satisfying seeing him in shackles, like he belongs, and still had that arrogant look on his face when he came in and that arrogant look on his face when he walked out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Fred Goldman today, for him and his family, a long- awaited moment, no doubt about that, a moment they were denied when a jury acquitted O.J. Simpson of murder, which raises the question, did today's sentencing have more to do with the L.A. murders than a Las Vegas robbery? We will talk about that a little bit, as we already have, with Lisa Bloom and Jeff Toobin.
But, first, more of Fred Goldman in his own words today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM GOLDMAN, RON GOLDMAN'S SISTER: The back of his head looks the same as it did everyday that we watched him in the criminal case. And we feel very proud of our efforts. We feel very strongly that, because of our pursuit of him for all of these years, that it did drive him to the brink of this.
He was acting in an arrogant fashion, the same way that he did the night that he killed Ron and Nicole. He said it in court. He wanted what was his. He went back to get it, the same night that he killed Ron and Nicole.
I feel very proud of my father and I and our family for sticking with our commitment to Ron, to honor his memory and to keep pursuing him. The "If I Did It" book, I think, pushed him right over the edge. I'm very proud of our efforts for taking that book back and for turning his words around on him. And today was a good day for our family.
F. GOLDMAN: And I -- and it was interesting. I hadn't heard it before, that, apparently, at some point, he made a comment that -- he, himself, made a comment on some tape that he wanted to make sure that we didn't get things from him.
And, as Kim said a second ago, if -- if our efforts for all these years of pushing him drove him to -- to commit burglary, armed burglary, armed robbery in Vegas, if that pushed him over the edge, great. Put him where he belongs.
There's never closure. Ron is always gone. And what we have is satisfaction that a -- that this monster is where he belongs, behind bars.
K. GOLDMAN: When they started talking about the minimum time that he's going to spend in jail, is -- the time that he is not out, causing havoc and -- and reminding us of the pain that he caused us 14 years ago, is an amazing feeling. And to watch him sit there in shackles, to watch him walk back through door -- twice, in our lifetime, he's walked out the same door as our family. And it was nice to see him walk back into his door into his jail cell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right, we're back with Jeff Toobin and Lisa Bloom, digging deeper.
Just watching them, do you think they're right, that their efforts sort of pushed O.J. Simpson to this moment?
BLOOM: I think that they're right. And I will tell you why.
They got a turnover order, where O.J.'s property was supposed to be relinquished to them. This was back in 1995. And they have sought to enforce it every year since then. Well, he said on tape, with his conspirators, the reason why he went to Nevada and didn't go to the police and tried to take this stuff back this way was so that the Goldmans wouldn't get the property.
And, in fact, the whole confusion about whose property this is all stems from the fact that O.J. and a lot of people who worked with him at the time who have since written books about it and confessed to it tried to hide property from the Goldmans. So, I do think, not just in an indirect way, but in a pretty direct way, they did drive him to what he did.
TOOBIN: I also think there was a simple matter of character as well.
O.J. Simpson is someone who has a rage problem, to say the least. Even before he murdered Ron -- Ron and Nicole, he had that -- he had been reacted for domestic violence. Subsequently, as we heard in David Mattingly's piece, he's been arrested.
I don't know exactly what precipitated this incident, but the rage was there. And it was going to come out again.
COOPER: It is amazing to see David Mattingly's piece, I mean, all these incidences of driving the thing in the manatee zone.
COOPER: I mean, it begs the question, either was, you know, because he so well-known and infamous, was he more of a target to law enforcement, or does he, in fact, have, as you say, a rage problem, that -- I mean, I don't know many people who have that much experience with the law.
TOOBIN: How many people have a domestic violence conviction -- which, by the way, he was convicted -- it was a misdemeanor, but he was convicted of domestic violence against Nicole -- and, years later, after he is acquitted of her murder, his daughter calls 911 against him?
That's pretty unusual. I think that's indicative of a character.
BLOOM: Well, in fact, practically everyone who has come into contact with him talks about this rage. Mike Gilbert, his former agent, Tom Riccio, one his conspirators in this case.
TOOBIN: And the paradox is, it's simultaneous with the nicest guy in the world. I mean, a lot of people love this guy, at least before the -- you know, the murder.
He had many friends. He was a good friend to many people. The rage was present, but it wasn't always present.
BLOOM: But look at how far he's fallen, too. Look at who his friends were in 2007, this bang of -- gang of thugs that he was with.
TOOBIN: Well, that's...
COOPER: I want to play just some of what the judge said today. I mean, she made a point to -- to say, look, this is not about O.J. Simpson's past. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLASS: I stated to the group that, if this was -- if they were here because they wanted to punish Mr. Simpson for what had happened previously, then this wasn't the case for them. And I meant that.
As the judge in this case, I'm not here to sentence Mr. Simpson for what's happened in his life previously in the criminal justice system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We have already really talked about that. O.J. Simpson has said -- his people have said that they're going to appeal it. Is there grounds for appeal here?
TOOBIN: There are always some grounds for appeal, but most grounds fail. And most appeals don't succeed. And I think this is unlikely to succeed.
I think he's got a little better chance than most people because of the racial makeup of the jury, because of the
COOPER: All -- it was an all-white jury.
TOOBIN: Yes, although -- but...
BLOOM: Although there were two African-American alternates.
TOOBIN: But -- but -- but the other thing is, it doesn't feel like armed robbery or kidnapping.
Yes, there are similar cases like that, but I could see an appeals court judge saying, you know, this case was overcharged, that -- given what went on, this was two heavy-duty of prosecution.
BLOOM: Well, let me say this about the appeal.
You know, I sat in a big chunk of that trial. This judge bent over backwards to make rulings favorable to the defense. She was well aware that everything that she did was going to be combed over by an appeals court. She threw out a big chunk of the prosecution's case halfway through the trial that commentators like me complained about.
But now that the prosecution won nevertheless, that's very helpful to them in getting this case to stick. So, I really -- other than the fact of the racial makeup the jury, which is a little bit of a problem, other than that, I really don't see a reversal on appeal.
COOPER: Nine years, he's been -- he will be available for parole. Will the bar be higher for him?
TOOBIN: It's hard to say, because he will be 70 years old. There are not a lot of 70-year-old men in prison. Most of the time, parole board are pretty generous when you get to that age.
But he's O.J. Simpson. And who knows whether that rage will surface in prison and create a record where they can't give him parole. So, I would say the odds favor him getting out, but...
COOPER: Do we know if he's going to be in -- in special custody or anything? I mean...
BLOOM: He should be, as a celebrity. He should be given protection, which means it's going to be a lonely life for O.J. in state prison. He will probably be alone about 23 hours out of the day, if he requests it. And he probably will.
But he may see himself as the gregarious guy who wants to interact, wants to have a cell mate. By the way, Nevada is a very conservative law-and-order state. You know, we think of Las Vegas as -- as crazy and wild and fun. But the parole board is unlikely to grant a first-time request for parole to anyone, even to O.J.
COOPER: All right, Lisa Bloom, Jeff Toobin, thanks very much.
Just ahead, breaking news: what the Big Three carmakers could be getting before Christmas. We will tell you about the late-breaking details of a new deal and -- that is now coming into focus, what it may cost you and what Detroit plans to do with all of your money.
Details of the charges against two alleged torturers -- police say they held a boy captive for more than a year. Tonight, hear what the boy went through and the shape he's now in. His brother, who he was separated from, is now speaking out for the first time.
And later, new figures, higher figures emerging about what it actually cost to keep Sarah Palin in fancy clothes and makeup. And who knew she had time for a spa treatment, too, while running for vice president?
Next on 360.
COOPER: Just ahead, the latest on a deal taking shape for the Big Three automakers, but, first, Erica Hill has a 360 bulletin -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, give security guards from Blackwater Worldwide have been indicted in a 2007 shooting incident in Baghdad. A sixth security guard is in plea negotiations, sources tell CNN. That shooting, which killed 17 Iraqis, became an anti-American rallying point for Iraqi insurgents.
Seven suspected pirates are in custody in Yemen. The Royal Danish Navy said it rescued the men in the Gulf of Aden after receiving a distress call. The suspect's boat was reportedly filled with weapons. A video showing the rescue supports that story, but Yemen insists that it was in fact its own coast guard who caught the alleged pirates.
The Chilean navy says all 122 people aboard a cruise ship stranded off Antarctica have been rescued and they are unharmed. Twelve Americans were among the rescued. The ship struck ice yesterday and began taking on water.
And a new report filed by the Republican National Committee shows, keeping Sarah Palin and her family looking good during the campaign actually cost even more than previously thought, close to $30,000 more spent on accessories and spa and salon treatments, bringing the total bill to around $180,000 -- Anderson.
COOPER: Who knew? All right, Erica.
Here's tonight's "Beat 360" photo. You know who they are: the two famous Republican governors from California and Alaska. So what do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger was thinking when he met up with Sarah Palin in a conference this week in Philadelphia?
Here's the caption from Kyra, our staff winner: "Mmm, you smell nice. Is that 'Ambition' by Sarah Palin?"
(SOUND EFFECT: GROANS)
COOPER: I didn't really commit to the accent.
Our viewer winner is Sam from Miami who won with this: "You bet you I'll be back."
(SOUND EFFECT: "Ooooh!")
HILL: I think that that was supposed to be Sarah Palin.
COOPER: Maybe that was she saying it. Right. Obviously it was. Oh, well. I blew that. Sorry, Sam.
HILL: I can see your (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from my House.
COOPER: Your "Beat 360" T-shirt is on the way, Sam. And you can check out all the entries at AC360.com. And I'll try not blow it tomorrow.
Up next, breaking news. New details about how many billions Congress may be willing to pay to the Big Three carmakers. Is the bailout battle finally over? Dana Bash working the story. She joins us next.
And outrage over this photo. President-elect Obama's chief speechwriter, the guy in the left there, groping a cardboard cutout of Senator Clinton. What the Clinton camp is saying and what the speechwriter is now saying, as well, coming up.
COOPER: There's late word tonight that Congress may be close a deal to salvage the Big Three automakers. The three CEOs testified for a second straight day on Capitol Hill, making their case for billions in loans on a day that brought truly devastating economic news.
More than a half million Americans lost their jobs last month, the worst job losses in 34 years. GM also said its cutting 2,000 more jobs. And a record number of homeowners are either behind in their mortgage payments or in foreclosure. All of it, apparently, driving lawmakers closer to a compromise for Detroit.
Dana Bash joins us with the breaking news -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Well, what are we told from multiple sources, Anderson, is that there is now general agreement on where the money for it would try to come from. Now, for weeks that has really been at the center of the deadlock here.
And we found out earlier this evening that House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, actually backed down on her opposition to rescuing the auto industry using funds intended to make environmentally-sound cars. Now, that has been the money that the president and congressional Republicans have been pushing for.
And one official I talked to said that Pelosi reversed herself because of what you just talked about: the devastating jobs report today, that -- you know, the worst jobs report in three decades. One source I talked to said that that changed everything. And that because of that, she's willing to use these funds, but she makes clear, only if those funds are replenished -- Anderson.
COOPER: So what details do we know about the bailout plan in the works?
BASH: You know, I'm cautioned that -- by sources that I'm talking to involved in this is that the details are still very vague and that they're actually going to be likely hammered out this weekend.
However, I'm told that a central idea right now in these compromised talks is to loan Detroit $15 to $17 billion. And that would be to potentially fund these companies through March. But I'm warned by sources that there are other possibilities that may emerge as talks continue.
But the other thing I'm told is that, in exchange for that loan, they're very likely will be a strict government role in restructuring these auto companies, either with the government oversight board or a so-called car czar.
COOPER: A car czar? You know, there's so many czars being proposed for so many different things. It's like imperial Russia. What's the time frame for this bailout plan? Do you know?
BASH: What we know is that the House leaders and the Senate Democratic leaders both announced today that they actually hope to have some kind of packages on the floor of the House and the Senate by some time next week, and they've actually already announced plans to come into session.
You know, it really is impossible to overemphasize the fact that this deadlock has been in place for some time, for weeks and weeks. And it really wasn't just the fact that these auto executives came up for the second time today and tried to put new plans in place. It wasn't that at all. It was this unemployment report that came out. It really was like a bomb that dropped on Washington. It really was a wake-up call for them.
COOPER: All right, Dana Bash. I appreciate the reporting on the breaking news. Thanks.
Up next, we'll take a -- more on this. We'll talk with David Gergen, Candy Crowley and "New York Times" business editor Marcus Mabry.
We'll also talk about a Facebook photo that's getting a lot of attention, because the guy on the left is Obama's chief speech writer. He appears to be groping a cutout of Hillary Clinton. New developments on the story today.
Also ahead, new developments in the shocking story of a teen shackled, allegedly held captive in California. One of the alleged captors, a Girl Scout leader, if you can believe it. That woman there. Now, the victim's brother, who he was separated from, is speaking out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUSTIN, BROTHER OF SHACKLED TEEN: You know, it's not -- he's used to sitting in this position. He sits there like this. Or he sits with his legs curled up to you side. It's -- it doesn't look like he has any legs.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" coming up.
COOPER: All right. More on tonight's breaking news. Signs of a compromise on a package of bridge loans for GM, Ford and Chrysler.
Joining us once again, Dana Bash, who broke the story for us tonight, along as with Marcus Mabry, international business editor for "The New York Times." CNN senior political analyst and former presidential adviser David Gergen, he's in North Carolina tonight. And in Chicago CNN's Candy Crowley.
So Candy, Obama released a statement today on the economy, and he said, "There are no quick or easy fixes to this crisis, which has been many years in the making, and it's likely to get worse before it gets better. Now is not the time to respond -- now is the time to respond with urgent resolve to put people back to work and get our economy moving again."
It's interesting though, Candy. I mean, he talked about repairing roads and modernizing schools and clean energy. He doesn't, though, directly address in any big way the auto bailout. Is that -- clearly, that seems to be intentional.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely it's intentional. First of all, are there talks going on at various levels of the Obama transition team with people on Capitol Hill about that auto bailout. But intentionally, they have stayed clear of this. There is absolutely no benefit to Barack Obama to jump into the middle of this.
You know, we talk all the time about how presidents have capital to spend, and he certainly had a healthy win and will have that once he moves into office. But the fact of the matter is, it was so uncertain until, apparently tonight, as Dana is reporting, what was going to happen on Capitol Hill. There was no real reason for Barack Obama to spend capital even before he took office.
So they took a fairly hands-on approach -- hands-off approach, although he gave some broad outlines, as he would have preferred.
COOPER: Dana, do we know what they are still debating in order to get this deal done? I mean, what still is in contention?
BASH: I mean, I think -- maybe a better way to ask it is, what aren't they still debating? Because look, I mean, the big divide, as we talked about earlier, was where the money is going to come from.
But there are so many different perspectives and sets of philosophy about what should and shouldn't be done that -- that's going on right now on Capitol Hill. And that really is the challenge for all of these lawmakers.
You know, basically, how this will be structured and what kind of oversight will these -- will these companies have? And if the government is going to be, really, that involved in restructuring, how much? And that's really appropriate?
So those are just some of the questions that are -- that are not yet answered, and they really are going to be working very hard over the weekend to try to figure it out.
COOPER: David Gergen. But are you confident that a deal is going to be done?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's inevitable, with this job report, this terrible job report today. Along with the fact that Barack Obama has indicated that he does not want these companies to fail. They're going to hammer out a compromise.
I would imagine, Anderson, some of the big questions will be kicked down the road. Just as the big -- the big bailout is going to come now and during the Obama presidency. But they'll have three months of funding of some sort. They'll find some sort of bridge funds. I don't think that will be very hard.
But the big questions about how you restructure the industry. The car czar, how that will work, and all these other questions. I imagine a lot of that will be postponed.
But Barack Obama seized this moment today to push for more support for his own stimulus package. And he has a Gallup poll now that says 58 percent of Americans support him in seeking some $500 to $700 billion in general for stimulus.
So I think he'll also have -- be able to build support for a long-term restructuring of the automobile industry, because by the time the Congress comes back and he comes into office, you know, the fact is, the unhappy fact is, unemployment's going to be even higher than it is today.
COOPER: Marcus, can we just keep spending money? I mean, can we just keep -- giving -- coming up with $700 billion packages?
MARCUS MABRY, "NEW YORK TIMES": Well, unfortunately, Anderson, the answer is yes. We can keep spending money. There's going to be a price to play and it's going to come in the form of inflation. We don't when that that inflation is going to happen. We don't know how long it's going to last or how badly that inflation will be.
But we know there is a short-term problem right now, which is that, you know, half a million of the Americans lost their jobs in last month alone.
COOPER: Which is stunning. That number is just...
MABRY: The worst number in 34 years, it's extraordinary. And what it means at this point in the recession, we're already a year into this recession, we know now. What it means is that, if we're a year into the recession and we're seeing numbers like that, those numbers are likely to keep growing, which means the recession is likely to be long, deep and very painful.
COOPER: More and longer and deeper than anyone thought.
MABRY: Absolutely. Longer and deeper than, probably, in this recession which at this point, it's pretty clear, since the Great Depression.
COOPER: Just on some political news, Candy, I want to show our viewers of this photo that's making waves inside the beltway of Obama's head speechwriter, John Favreau, on the left, apparently, basically groping a picture of Senator Clinton. The -- what -- what do you make of this? I mean, is this -- is this an issue?
The photo was posted, I guess, by a friend of this guy's on Facebook. It was taken down a couple hours later. The "Washington Post" reached out to Senator Clinton for a comment. And Clinton's advisor said, and I quote, "Senator Clinton is pleased to learn of John's obvious interest in the State Department and is clearly reviewing his obligation."
CROWLEY: So listen, if she's not going to quibble with it, I'm not going to quibble with it. I mean, you know, the fact of the matter is not everybody in the Obama campaign could actually be countered on adults as occasion, probably when liquor is involved.
So if she's going to brush it off, I'm not sure it's going to become some major deal in the months ahead, particularly when we have the jobless situation as it is.
COOPER: It is interesting, though, David, what a difference a couple of months make. I mean, had this been during the campaign, this would have been huge.
GERGEN: It would have been. But Anderson, I have to say, this is one of the few times I've heard you groping for words.
COOPER: Yes, well, I think we're just going to leave it all there.
I also want to turn to the transition team. There has been speculation over who's going to fill Hillary Clinton's Senate seat. Caroline Kennedy appears to be, at least being talked to, by the governor of New York, at least talked to once. Apparently, there may be another meeting this -- this weekend. Is this for real, David?
GERGEN: Well, it's fascinating. The fact that she's willing to sit down and talk about it suggests that she's giving it real consideration.
I've known Caroline Kennedy through the Kennedy School, and she's passionate about -- about our quality of our politics, but she's always wanted to maintain a private reserve. You know, she's been a very private person. So this -- this would be a big, big surprise.
People have speculated whether she might go to the Senate, go to the U.N. That job is now taken. Or become ambassador to the court of St. James in London, which would also have a real -- that would be fitting in many ways, given her family history. But I don't think any of us expected she would be this far along in thinking about it, so it's possible.
COOPER: Marcus, what do you make of it?
MABRY: Well, you know it's a lot more work to be in the Senate representing the great state of New York than it is to be over representing the United States before the British courts. So I'd be very impressed if she were to do it.
The fact is, you know, I think -- some of what represents excitement that she's had about this particular president-elect.
COOPER: Yes. Go ahead.
BASH: Anderson, the only thing I was going to say is that, from the perspective of the United States Senate, I spoke a couple of Democratic sources who are familiar with -- with the Kennedys and certainly know her and know people who know her, who still say that they would be surprised if she actually took this.
But you know what? Given the way that this year has been, ending with this kind of surprise, wouldn't be a surprise.
COOPER: David, did you want to say something?
GERGEN: No, thank you.
COOPER: All right. I thought that you wanted to get one more story in about John.
GERGEN: One more grope. OK? One more.
COOPER: All right. We'll leave it there. David Gergen, Marcus Mabry, Dana Bash, Candy Crowley. Thanks.
Still ahead, shocking new developments in the case of a teenager held -- allegedly held captive in chains for more than a year. Tonight, more clues about how he ended up with his alleged captors and new details about the abuse he allegedly suffered. His brother speaking out next.
COOPER: Hidden behind this California home, a teen was allegedly shackled. Those are the allegations in the case as disturbing as it is bizarre.
A former Girl Scout leader -- sorry, a Girl Scout leader and her husband -- there they are -- were arraigned yesterday, charged with more than a dozen kidnapping and child abuse charges. Their alleged victim: a teenaged boy who just days ago ran into a gym, begging for help, wearing nothing but boxer shorts and a chain around his ankle. Police say he was held captive for more than a year.
There are new and some disturbing details tonight from the teen's brother, who's speaking out. Here's Erica hill.
AUSTIN: He hasn't grown an inch since I have seen him. He's still -- still the same kid. He can probably lay down on the bed and I wouldn't know that he was there. That's how skinny he is.
HILL: Nineteen-year-old Austin describing his younger brother, the same boy who escaped from a northern California home earlier this week, covered in dirt, wearing only boxer shorts and a shackle around his ankle.
AUSTIN: He's terrified. You know? It's not -- he's used to sitting in this position. He sits there like this or he sits with his legs curled up to the side. It doesn't look like he has any legs.
HILL: According to Austin, that's because his brother's legs were chained to a table.
Prosecutors named Kelly Lau and her husband, Michael Schumacher, along with Caren Ramirez, in this 14-page indictment. Among the charges: kidnapping and sadistically using a baseball bat, belt, and knife to torture the boy for more than a year.
ANGELA HAYES, SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY PROSECUTOR: You've seen the nature of the charges from torture to aggravated mayhem to false imprisonment to corporal injury and inflicting great bodily injury. So I think the charges speak for themselves.
HILL: Lau and Schumacher, in shackles themselves as they were charged with 13 felony counts of child abuse, did not enter pleas. They are being held on $2.2 million bond each.
Caren Ramirez is expected to make a court appearance on Monday.
(on camera) How the teen knows Ramirez, though, is still unclear. We do know she was the guardian for him and his brother after they were taken from their parents because of abuse.
Austin tells a local TV station Ramirez also abused him. He left Ramirez' care for a foster home. His little brother was eventually sent to a group home after Ramirez was charged with child abuse.
Police say he then ran away about 18 months ago and ended up back with Ramirez.
(voice-over) A former teacher says the teen referred to Ramirez as Mom. Police say the two are not related. That same teacher had fond memories of her former student.
BONNIE, TEACHER OF SHACKLED TEEN: I have vivid pictures of him laughing and singing and just being a normal, happy kid. And his potential was taken.
HILL: The teen is now in the custody of Sacramento County Child Protective Services. His brother says he'll do anything to help him and is trying to be strong.
AUSTIN: I try not to sit there and cry in front of him. He told me to stop crying.
HILL: Austin and the former teacher say they've called Child Protective Services for help on more than one occasion. The department told us it cannot comment on specific cases.
HILL: Now in a jailhouse interview this week, Kelly Lau told a San Francisco TV station she was afraid Caren Ramirez would harm her four children if she didn't "discipline," in her words, the teen as Ramirez did. Those children, Anderson, ages 1 through 9, are now in productive custody.
COOPER: That is so terrible. All right, thanks.
O.J. Simpson ahead still. Sentenced to prison. A story of how the football and movie star became a convicted felon.
But coming up next, "The Shot," something to make you smile before you go to sleep or maybe at least scratch your head in this case. Why has this young man attached electrodes to his face? And why is he playing music? Well, we'll find out. Ahead on 360.
COOPER: Get ready for a pun. Our "Shot" tonight, a new twist on facing the music.
HILL: Ooh. Pun No. 1.
So this Japanese artist, composer and music producer attached electrodes to his face that are then hooked up to a keyboard programmed to play electronic music. The music sends electrical impulses to his facial muscles, making them twitch along with the sounds. Watch and enjoy.
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HILL: Catchy, isn't it?
COOPER: Yes, some folks around here thought he was just doing, meth. But no, in fact, it's electrodes.
HILL: Apparently, he's completely sober.
COOPER: He calls it face dancing. Every performance -- yes.
COOPER: No, I'm not going to say that pun. And we saw that first on AndrewSullivan.com. So there you go.
HILL: Good stuff.
COOPER: Good stuff. Do not try that at home.
HILL: No, absolutely do not.
COOPER: Do not try that at home.
HILL: And don't send us a picture if you try it, either because we told you not to do it.
COOPER: We don't want -- don't want to be responsible.
HILL: Just don't involve us in that.
COOPER: All right. Coming up at the top of the hour, breaking news, news of a possible Big Three bailout deal.
Plus exit O.J. Reaction to his sentencing from the Goldman family. Our legal panel and Simpson in his own words, pleading for mercy. That and more ahead. Stay tuned.
COOPER: We're following breaking news in the bailout for the Big Three car companies. New details tonight on a dollar figure and where the money could be coming from. Dana Bash is working her sources. She's going to bring us that shortly. All the latest of what appears to be a deal in the making, fueled by especially grim new economic data. We'll get to that.
We begin, though, tonight with O.J. Simpson. He is going to prison, a judge today ensuring that he spent at least nine years behind bars. He could serve as much as 33 years, all for a cheesy robbery in a seedy Vegas hotel with a pack of shady characters.
He is 61 years old now and, with good behavior, he could be out by age 70. His sentence today for armed robbery, kidnapping and conspiracy.
The judge insisted this was not, but plenty of people are taking this to be a kind of delayed sentence for the murders of his wife Nicole and her friend, Ron Goldman, more than 14 years ago.
It has been almost that long since a criminal jury acquitted him and a civil jury later ruled him responsible for the slaughter. In that space of time, he's never shown contrition for anything.