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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Fay Hits Florida; Faith and Politics and the Next President

Aired August 18, 2008 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.
Campbell Brown in for Anderson Cooper tonight.

We've got Breaking News tonight. Tropical Storm Fay already a killer, already causing trouble here on American soil. A Tropical Storm now just shy of hurricane strength, Fay crossed the Keys this afternoon, sending about 25,000 tourists packing. Heavy rains, flooding, no fatalities in the U.S., but Fay is blamed for more than a dozen deaths in the Caribbean.

The eye is over the Gulf now, slightly to the southwest of Naples, Florida, and Marco Island, which is where we find "360's" Gary Tuchman.

And Gary, give us the latest from there.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, its 11:00 Eastern time, which means a curfew is now in effect here in Collier County, Florida, in the south western part of Florida. Anybody who is out and about and if you're and about right now in these torrential rains and these high winds that are starting to get near tropical force you're not that bright.

But we do see cars driving down the road which is also technical illegible. But right now from 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. a curfew was in effect.

We are in Marco Island; Marco Island is an upscale barrier island right across the Intercoastal Waterway; the Intercoastal Waterway behind me from Naples, Florida here in Collier County about 100 miles north of Key West. And this is where we expect between 2:00 and 4:00 a.m. this morning the peak of Fay to come.

It appears at this time it's going to stay a Tropical Storm, maybe up to 70 miles per hour. Hurricanes begin at 74 miles per hour. Nevertheless, a lot of concern about flooding here, because the elevation here is at sea level; they get flooding here in minor storms. And they've had big flooding problems over this decade with other Tropical Storms and hurricanes that have hit here, including hurricane Wilma that came by here in 2005 and also including hurricane Charley in 2004.

It's probably right behind me now, there's a police car with its lights on looking for people who are violating the curfew. One thing we should tell you, Campbell, there is not a mandatory evacuation order in effect. Because of the strength of the storm; it's strong but is not considered a major hurricane.

They are voluntarily being asked to leave. But most people appear to have stayed on these islands, although shelters have been set up.

Nevertheless, the worst of the storm will be in the overnight hours and that's the scariest part. We always think about the children in their homes right now, small children who are wondering, they hear the noises, they hear the rain, they hear the winds and it's happening at night.

When they wake up tomorrow, we'll see what damage if any occurred here -- Campbell.

BROWN: Well, Gary, are you surprised at all, given the previous or the history they've had in the area that so many people have opted to stay?

TUCHMAN: You know we don't like to make judgments about people. And they're certainly seasoned here in Florida, they've experienced this a lot in the last several years. The fact is, we're not talking about a Wilma, we're not talking about a Rita or we're not talking a Katrina.

Nevertheless, when you have high winds, and they continue for hours now, it's like a light pole can come down, trees can come down and you'd certainly have to be very careful. And if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, it could be deadly.

BROWN: All right, Gary Tuchman for us tonight. Gary, appreciate it.

We do want to get an update now on where this is headed and what we know about that. Severe weather expert Chad Myers has been tracking the storm for us.

Chad, what do we know at this hour?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, the 11:00 advisory just came in literally three minutes ago and the storm did not increase in intensity; still the same 60-mile-per-hour storm. We still don't really have an eye wall going around the storm right now. That is kind of lowering the potential for this ever to become a hurricane.

We talked about -- you heard Gary talk about that it was going to be probably the worst for him in three or four hours. Because we found out today, we've always known this, but with John Zarrella, we had the eye wall go right over Key West and then it was the middle of the eye and then there was nothing for John at all. It was very peaceful there.

Well, it's the eye wall that we're the most concerned about when it goes over land. We also want to call it like eye wall fall instead of landfall because landfall is when the eye, the center of the eye goes over land. Well, that's not when it's the worst; it's worse before that. And so literally you have to think two to three hours before what you consider where the eye will be over you if it gets over you. That's when your weather is going to be the worst. That's when you're in the eye wall. That's when it's actually going to be the worst.

We had wind gusts there in Key West over 60 miles per hour. This is just going to be to the people of Florida a little blow. This is not a Category 3 or Category 4 storm. Although if you are unprepared and if you're on the east coast of Florida as this storm traverses Florida, it will eventually exit Florida to the east in the Atlantic Ocean.

It's going to go all the way across Florida and there's the center of what we consider the circulation now. There's Tropical Storm Fay's track all the way across, maybe even New Smyrna beach. Maybe as far right as Melbourne, in the Atlantic beach you'll see and then it turns left to when it gets to Georgia and stalls out.

Now, that would be the best-case scenario for a drought infested, because I can't even get a lawn to grow here in Georgia. Well, it is a mess up here with rainfall and the deficits we've had, the lakes still 15 and 20 feet below normal. A big tropical system that's just raining would be a really good thing.

BROWN: Well Chad, you said earlier tonight that tornadoes could be real issues. Spawning tornadoes -- have there been any reports? What's happening on that front?

MYERS: We've had three suspected tornadoes but never seen, but three reports of damage that kind of are linked to tornadoes. And then about seven or eight tornado warnings so far, but so far nothing on the ground that we know of. There could be a couple dozen tornadoes with this system, though, as it goes across Florida.

That could be the biggest threat to life rather than a storm surge, which it's not going to have and it's not going to have a 100- mile-per-hour winds. But if you get your one house in front of that one waterspout that it goes to the wrong place, it's a big storm for you because it affected your life the most -- Campbell.

BROWN: Absolutely. Chad Myers, for us tonight. Chad, thanks as always.

We're going to continue to track the storm for you all night.

One other item, a pretty amazing piece of video showing a truly bad thing to do in a storm. This is kite boarding. This is on the beach in Ft. Lauderdale. Take a look at this.

OK, the good news here, this guy survived. He is very badly hurt, but alive we are told. The hospital has him listed in critical condition. You can see how brutal this was. Wow.

During the storm, again, he was kite boarding. It's just absolutely pretty devastating and painful for me to watch. Again, he did survive that, and the hospital saying that he's in critical condition at this hour.

Just ahead, the showdown at Saddleback Church at Pastor Rick Warren's Faith Forum; Barack Obama and John McCain faced the same questions about abortion, wealth and much more. Coming up, their answers in their own words. "Faith and Politics and the Next President," that's next on "360."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We'll keep returning to live hurricane updates through the hour, but we are devoting a good part of our program tonight to "Faith and Politics, the Next President."

Its part of our ongoing commitment to bringing you the candidates in their own words so you can make up your own minds on the issues.

Well, this weekend in southern California, the issues took a sharply religious turn. Both candidates agreed to be interviewed by Pastor Rick Warren at his Evangelical Saddleback Church.

In back-to-back hour-long interviews, Warren asked both men about their faith and much more. A coin toss decided who went first, Obama. But the questions on the candidates -- that the candidates faced rather were identical, including this very personal question. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH PASTOR: The Bible says that integrity and love are the basis of leadership. This is a tough question.

What would be, looking over your life -- everybody has got weaknesses, nobody is perfect -- would be the greatest moral failure in your life, and what would be the greatest moral failure of America?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, in my own life, I'd break it up in stages.

I had a difficult youth. My father wasn't in the house. I've written about this. There were times where I experimented with drugs and I drank IN my teenage years. And what I trace this to as a certain selfishness on my part.

I was so obsessed with me and the reasons that I might be dissatisfied that I couldn't focus on other people. And, you know, I think the process for me of growing up was to recognize that it's not about me. It's about --

WARREN: I like that. I like that.

OBAMA: Absolutely. So -- but look, when I -- when I find myself taking the wrong step, I think a lot of times it's because I'm trying to protect myself instead of trying to do God's work. And so that I think is my own failure.

WARREN: How about America?

OBAMA: I think America's greatest moral failure, in my lifetime, has been that we still don't abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me.

And that notion of -- that basic principle applies to poverty, it applies to racism and sexism, it applies to not having -- not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class.

There's a pervasive sense I think that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of these.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: What's been your greatest moral failure, and what has been -- what do you think is the greatest moral failure of America?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: My greatest moral failing, and I have been a very imperfect person, is the failure of my first marriage. That's my greatest moral failure.

I think America's greatest moral failure has been, throughout our existence, perhaps we have not devoted ourselves to causes greater than our self-interest although we've been the best at it of anybody in the world. I think after 9/11, my friends, instead of telling people to go shopping or take a trip, we should have told Americans to join the Peace Corps, the military, expand our volunteers, expand what you're doing --

WARREN: OK.

MCCAIN: Expand to create missions that you are doing -- that you are carrying out not only here in America but throughout the world, especially in Rwanda. And I hope we have a chance to talk a little bit about that later on.

And you know, a little pandering here. The first words of your very successful book is, "This is not about you." You know what that really also means? Serve a cause greater than your self interests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Just ahead, more of the candidate's own words from Saturday's Faith Forum.

They were asked about abortion one of the hottest of hot button issues. The same question but very different answers.

That's next on "360."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Continuing now with "Faith and Politics and the Next President" an Evangelical Pastor and his mega church took center stage on the trail this past weekend.

At Rick Warren's Faith Forum, Barack Obama and John McCain were asked the same questions about issues that Christian Conservatives care deeply about, including abortion. They gave very different answers.

Here they are again in their own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Let's deal with abortion; 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. You know as a pastor I have to deal with this all the time; all of the pain and all of the conflicts. I know this is a very complex issue; 40 million abortions.

At what point does a baby get human rights in your view?

OBAMA: Well, you know, I think that whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade. But, but let me -- let me just speak more generally about the issue of abortion. Because this is something that I obviously -- the country wrestles with.

One thing that I'm absolutely convinced of is that there is a moral and ethical element to this issue. And so I think anybody who tries to deny the moral difficulties and gravity of the abortion issue, I think, is not paying attention. So that would be point number one.

But point number two, I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade and I come to that conclusion not because I'm pro-abortion, but because ultimately I don't think women make these decisions casually. I think they -- they wrestle with these things in profound ways, in consultation with their pastors or their spouses or their doctors and their family members.

And so for me, the goal right now should be, and this is where I think we can find common ground. And by the way I've now inserted this into the Democratic Party platform is how do we reduce the number of abortions? Because the fact is, is that although we've had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down. And that I think is something --

WARREN: Have you ever voted to limit or reduce abortions?

OBAMA: Well, the -- I am in favor, for example, of limits on late-term abortions; if there is an exception for the mother's health.

Now, from the perspective of those who, you know, are pro-life, I think they would consider that inadequate. And I respect their views. I mean one of the things that I've always said is that on this particular issue, if you believe that life begins at conception, then -- and you are consistent in that belief, then I can't argue with you on that, because that is a core issue of faith for you.

What I can do is say, are there ways that we can work together to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies so that we actually are reducing the sense that women are seeking out abortions?

And as an example of that, one of the things that I've talked about is how do we provide the resources that allow women to make the choice to keep a child? You know, have we given them the health care that they need, have we given them the support services that they need, have we given them the options of adoption that are necessary? That I think can make a genuine difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Let's deal with abortion. I, as a pastor, have to deal with this all the time, every different angle, every different pain, all the decisions on all of that; 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. Some people, people who believe that life begins at conception, would say that's a holocaust for many people.

At what point is a baby entitled to human rights?

MCCAIN: At the moment of conception. I have a 25-year pro-life record, in the Congress, in the senate; and as President of the United States, I will be a pro-life president and this presidency will have pro-life policies. That's my commitment -- that's my commitment to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: From abortion to the Supreme Court, what are the candidates looking for in a justice? We're going to find out next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We are looking tonight at "Faith and Politics, and the Next President."

Over the weekend, Senators Barack Obama and John McCain got a grilling from Pastor Rick Warren. He questioned them on religion, morality and more, including the Supreme Court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Which existing Supreme Court Justice would you not have nominated?

OBAMA: That's a good one. That's a good one. I would not have nominated Clarence Thomas. I don't think that he -- I don't think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation; setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretations of a lot of the constitution.

I would not nominate Justice Scalia although I don't think there's any doubt about his intellectual brilliance, because he and I just disagree. You know, he taught at the University of Chicago as did I in the law school.

WARREN: How about John Roberts?

OBAMA: John Roberts, I have to say was a tougher question only because I find him to be a very compelling person in conversation individually. He's clearly smart, very thoughtful. I will tell you that how I've seen him operate since he went to the bench confirms the suspicions that I had and the reason that I voted against him.

I'll give you one very specific instance and this is not a stump speech.

I think one of the most important jobs of, I believe, of the Supreme Court is to guard against the encroachment of the executive branch on the other -- the power of the other branches.

WARREN: OK.

OBAMA: And I think that he has been a little bit too willing and eager to give an administration, whether it's mine or George Bush's, more power than I think the constitution originally intended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Which existing Supreme Court justices would you not have nominated?

MCCAIN: With all due respect, Justice Ginsburg, Justice Breyer, Justice Souter, and Justice Stevens.

WARREN: Why? Tell me why.

MCCAIN: Well, I think that the President of the United States has incredible responsibility in nominating people to the United States Supreme Court. They are lifetime positions, as well as the Federal Bench. There will be two, or maybe three vacancies.

This nomination should be based on the criteria of proven record of strictly adhering to the constitution of the United States of America and not legislating from the bench. Some of the worst damage has been done by legislating from the bench.

And by the way, Justices Alito and Roberts are two of my most recent favorites, by the way.

WARREN: They really are.

MCCAIN: They are very fine and I'm proud of President Bush for nominating them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Coming up next, more on tonight's "Breaking News."

Tropical storm Fay, we're going to check back in with Gary Tuchman right in the teeth of it. That's when "360" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A quick look there at the effects of Fay after clobbering Cuba, crossing the Florida Keys and heading north. It's now off the Florida Gulf Coast, not far from San Marco Island and "360's" Gary Tuchman. Gary, what do you know?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, hello to you. Conditions are bad and they are getting worse here on Marco Island, southwest of Florida, Collier County, right across the inter- connecting bridge from Naples Florida (AUDIO GAP).

BROWN: Well, it does look like we lost Gary's signal there due to the weather that he's enduring along with all the other folks down in Florida. We'll get back to him when we can get his signal back up.

Right now, though, we do want to go to Erica Hill who's been following the other top stories tonight. She's joining us now with the 360 News and Business Bulletin -- Erica.

HILL: Campbell, Russian tanks and troops are seen moving further into Georgia today, despite Russia's claims that a withdrawal has begun. Russian tanks smashed a group of Georgian police cars barricading a road. A U.S. official also said Russia has moved missile launchers into the breakaway region of south Ossetia where the fighting began.

Renewed concerns about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and a weaker dollar have sent stocks stumbling Monday. The Dow fell 180 points to 11,479, The Nasdaq dropped 35 points, the S&P 500 lost 19.

And a lost baby humpback whale found off Australia's coast, may not survive much longer. The young calf has nestled up to a yacht which it seemed to think it was its mother. Rescue efforts to unite the orphan with its mother or with another pod of whales have failed thus far, Campbell.

BROWN: All right Erica, thanks very much.

We do want to try to go back to Gary Tuchman now in San Marco Island off the coast of Florida, there he is -- Gary.

TUCHMAN: Well, Campbell, this is the problem. When you have a hurricane or a Tropical Storm moving in, it creates problems for our satellite truck that sends the signals to the satellite and transmits to the world. That's what happens sometimes, the signals disappear.

We're back for the time being. And what we want to tell you is this. Sense of relief here, because while the worst is still to come within the next couple of hours here and there could be some very serious flooding, they know this isn't the serious kind of hurricane that they've got in the past like hurricane Wilma that came by here in 2005, hurricane Charley in 2004.

Just a few weeks ago, I was in another barrier island in Texas in South Padre island, when hurricane Dolly came through. 100-mile-per- hour winds, virtually every building on that barrier island suffered damage, some very serious.

Here on this barrier island, it appears, and I say this early, I'm not a fortune teller, but it appears based on the winds that we expect to see that we shouldn't see a lot of wind damage. However, we do anticipate seeing some flooding because of the elevation here is sea level.

So even when they have minor rainstorms they have flooding. We already see some flooding on the roads. So that appears to be the biggest problem.

A curfew is in effect right now. There are shelters set up, but it is very apparent to us that many people here on this island, about 12,000 people have decided to stick it out thinking it won't be as bad as some of the things they've seen before.

BROWN: And Gary, you said they've been through this before. They're accustomed to it and I guess better prepared for it than most of us because of that, right?

TUCHMAN: Campbell, the 21st century, this first decade of the 21st century has been a very rough decade, has been a very rough century, for the people of Florida. There've been a lot of hurricanes and Tropical Storms that have moved through here and unfortunately people who have lived in Florida for a long time have become veterans of all of this.

BROWN: And I know all of this is happening overnight. As you said, the worst of it expected overnight, so they're going to have quite a mess to wake up to in the morning.

Gary Tuchman reporting from the storm for us tonight. Gary, as always, thanks, appreciate it.

Up next, we're going to have more faith and politics and a question, does evil exist?

How Barack Obama and John McCain answered that question, when "360" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Questions of faith and politics. Senators Obama and McCain fielded them this weekend at a forum held by Pastor Rick Warren. The answers were revealing.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Let me just ask you one about evil. Does evil exist, and if it does, do we ignore it, do we negotiate with it, do we contain it, do we defeat it?

OBAMA: Evil does exist. I mean, I think we see evil all the time. We see evil in Darfur. We see evil sadly on the streets of our cities. We see evil in parents who viciously abuse their children.

And I think it has to be confronted. It has to be confronted squarely and one of the things that I strongly believe is that, you know, we are not going to -- as individuals -- be able to erase evil from the world. That is God's task. But we can be soldiers in that process. And we can -- we can confront it when we see it.

Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for us to have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, because, you know, a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.

WARREN: In the name of good.

OBAMA: In the name of good. And I think one thing that's very important is having some humility in recognizing that just because that we think our intentions are good doesn't always mean that we're going to be doing good.

WARREN: Does evil exist, and if so, should we ignore it, negotiate with it, contain it or defeat it?

MCCAIN: Defeat it. A couple of points. One, if I'm president of the United States, my friends, if I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. I will do that and I know how to do it. I will get that done. No one, no one should be allowed to take thousands of American -- innocent American lives.

Of course evil must be defeated. My friends, we are facing the transcendent challenge of the 21st century, radical Islamic extremism. Not long ago in Baghdad, Al Qaeda took two young women who were mentally disabled and put suicide vests on them, sent them into a market place, and by remote control detonated those suicide vests. If that isn't evil, you have to tell me what is. And we're going to defeat this evil.

And the central battle ground according to David Petraeus and Osama bin Laden is Baghdad, Mosul, Basra and Iraq and we are winning and we are succeeding and our troops will come home with honor and victory and not in defeat. And that's what's happening.

And we have -- and we face this threat throughout the world. It's not just in Iraq. It's not just in Afghanistan. Our intelligence people tell us Al Qaeda continues to try to establish cells here in the United States of America.

My friends, we must face this challenge. We can face this challenge. And we must totally defeat it. And we're in a long struggle but when I'm around the young men and women who are serving this nation in uniform, I have no doubts. None.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: There is more ahead from the Faith Forum. The candidates were also asked about taxes and just how much money someone needs to have in order to be considered rich. We're going to have their answers when "360" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More on faith and politics coming up in just a moment.

First, though, a quick update on the Tropical Storm. Take a look at the satellite loop. The eye, such as it is, just off the coast of Naples, Florida. Fay is near hurricane strength but not yet a hurricane. Winds just shy of the 74-mile-an-hour mark of a category 1 storm.

The storm is expected to hit land shortly. The track uncertain as Chad Myers said earlier. But if it heads east it will weaken and emerge on the Atlantic side, no worse than a tropical depression.

Stay with CNN throughout the night. We're going to have live updates on today.

But now we are back to our look at faith and politics and the presidency. We're continuing now with the candidates in their own words. What they said this weekend at the Faith Forum, hosted by Pastor Rick Warren.

The candidates were interviewed at Warren's Evangelical Saddleback Church. Taxes came up, so did wealth and that's where we pick up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Okay, taxes. This is a real simple question. Define rich. I mean, give me a number. Is it $50,000, $100,000, $200,000? Everybody keeps talking about who we're going to tax. How do you define that?

OBAMA: You know, if you got book sales of 25 million, then you qualify as one of the --

WARREN: I'm not asking about me.

OBAMA: Look, the -- here's how I think about it. Here's how I think about it. And this was reflected in my tax plan. If you are making $150,000 a year or less as a family, then you're middle class or you may be poor. But $150,000, you're basically middle class. Obviously depends on region, where you're living.

WARREN: In this region, you're poor.

OBAMA: Well, I don't know what housing prices -- what housing prices have been doing lately.

I would argue that if you're making more than $250,000, then you're in the top 3 percent, 4 percent of this country. You're doing well. Now, these things are all relative and I'm not suggesting that everybody who making over $250,000 is living on Easy Street.

But the question that I think we have to ask ourselves is, if we believe in good schools, if we believe in good roads, if we want to make sure that kids can go to college, if we don't want to leave a mountain of debt for the next generation, then we've got to pay for these things. They don't come for free.

And it is irresponsible -- I believe it is irresponsible, intergenerational, for us to invest or for us to spend $10 billion a month on a war and not have a way of paying for it. That I think is unacceptable.

So nobody likes to pay taxes. I haven't sold 25 million books but I've been selling some books lately. So I write a pretty big check to Uncle Sam. Nobody likes it.

What I can say is that under the approach I'm taking, if you make $150,000 or less, you will see a tax cut. If you're making $250,000 a year or more, you're going to see a modest increase. What I'm trying to do is create a sense of balance and fairness in our tax code.

One thing I think we can all agree on is it should be simpler so that you don't have all these loopholes and big stacks of stuff that you've got to comb through, which wastes a huge amount of money and allows special interests to take advantage of things that ordinary people cannot take advantage of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Define rich. Everybody talks about, you know, taxing the rich, but not the poor, the middle class. At what point, give me a number, give me a specific number. Where do you move from middle class to rich, is it $100,000, $50,000, $200,000? How does anybody know if we don't know what the standards are?

MCCAIN: Some of the richest people I've ever known in my life are the most unhappy. I think that rich is -- should be defined by a home, a good job, an education, and the ability to hand to our children a more prosperous and safer world than the one that we inherited.

I don't want to take any money from the rich. I want everybody to get rich. I don't believe in class warfare or redistribution of the wealth. But I can tell you, for example, there are small businessmen and women who are working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week that some people would classify as quote "rich," my friends, and want to raise their taxes and raise their payroll taxes.

Let's have -- keep taxes low. Let's give every family in America a $7,000 tax credit for every child they have. Let's give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice. Let's not have the government take over the health care system in America.

So I think if you're just talking about income, how about $5 million? No, no, but seriously, I don't think you can -- I don't think seriously that the point is that I'm trying to make here seriously, and I'm sure that comment will be distorted. But the point is, the point is, the point is that we want to keep we want to keep people's taxes low and increase revenues.

My friend, it was not taxes that mattered in America in the last several years, it was spending. Spending got completely out of control. We spent money in ways that mortgaged our kids futures.

My friends, we spent $3 million of your money to study the DNA of bears in Montana. Now, I don't know if that was a paternity issue or a criminal issue. But the point is -- the point is, it was $3 million of your money. It was your money.

We laugh about it but we cry. And we should cry because the Congress is supposed to be careful stewards of your tax dollars. What did they just do in the middle of an energy crisis when in California we are paying $4 for gas, went on vacation for five weeks.

I guarantee you, two things they never miss, a pay raise and vacation. We should stop that and call them back and not raise your taxes. We should not and cannot raise taxes in tough economic times.

So it doesn't matter really what my definition of rich is because I don't want to raise anybody's taxes. I really don't. In fact I want to give working Americans a better shot at having a better life.

And we all know the challenges, my friends, if I could be serious. Americans tonight, in California and all over America are sitting at the kitchen table, recently and suddenly lost a job, can't afford to stay in their home, education for their kids, affordable health care.

These are tough problems. These are tough problems. You talk to them every day, every day. My friends, we have to give them hope and confidence in the future. That's what we need to give them. And I can inspire them. I can lead. And I know our best days are ahead of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Up next, John McCain and Barack Obama reveal who they consider to be the wisest people they know. And do their answers offer any clues on who each may pick as his VP nominee?

Stay tuned. This is "360."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We're bringing you Barack Obama and John McCain in their own words at this weekend's forum at the Evangelical Saddleback Church. In back-to-back hour-long interviews, Pastor Rick Warren asked the candidates the same questions and got very different answers for the most part.

Here's what they said when they were asked who they would rely on for advice if elected president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARREN: Who are the three wisest people you know in your life and who are you going to rely on heavily in your administration?

OBAMA: There are so many people who are constantly helping to shape my views and my opinions. You mentioned one person I would be listening to and that is Michelle, my wife who is, not only wise, but she's honest. And one of the things you need, I think any leader needs, is somebody who can get up in your face and say, "Boy, you really screwed that one up. You really blew that."

WARREN: She talks like that to you?

OBAMA: Yes. That's very helpful.

Another person in that category is my grandmother. She was an extraordinary woman. She never went to college. They worked on a bomber assembly line during World War II when my grandfather was away. Came back, got a job as a secretary and worked her way up to become a bank vice president before she retired.

And she's just a very grounded, common sense, no fuss, no frills kind of person. And when I've got big decisions I often check in with her.

In terms of the administration or how I would approach the presidency, I don't think I would restrict myself to three people. There are people like Sam Nunn, a Democrat or Dick Lugar, a Republican, who I'd listen to on foreign policy.

On domestic policy, I have friends ranging from Ted Kennedy to Tom Coburn, who don't necessarily agree on a lot of things but who both, I think, have a sincere desire to see this country improve.

WARREN: Yes.

OBAMA: What I found is very helpful to me, is to have a table where a lot of different points of view are represented, and where I can sit and poke and prod and ask them questions.

WARREN: Yes.

OBAMA: So that I'm not -- any blind spots I have or predispositions I have that my assumptions are challenged. And I think that that's extraordinarily important.

WARREN: Okay.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WARREN: Who are the three wisest people that you know that you would rely on heavily in an administration?

MCCAIN: First one I think would be General David Petraeus; one of the great military leaders in American history, who took us from defeat to victory in Iraq. One of the great leaders.

Fourth of July a year ago, Senator Lindsey Graham and I were in Baghdad. 688 brave, young Americans whose enlistment had inspired swore an oath of re-enlistment to stay and fight for freedom. Only someone like General David Petraeus could motivate someone like that.

I think John Lewis -- John Lewis was at the Edmond Bridge, had his skull fractured, continued to serve; continues to have the most optimistic outlook about America. He can teach us all a lot about the meaning of courage and commitment to causes greater than our self- interest.

Meg Whitman. Meg Whitman, the CEO of eBay. Meg Whitman, 12 years ago there were five employees. Today there are 1.5 million people that make a living off eBay in America, in the world. It's one of these great American success stories.

In these economic, challenging times, we need to call on the wisdom and knowledge, background of people like Meg Whitman, who have been able to make such great American success story part of America's folklore.

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"Larry King Live" starts in just a moment.

But first an update on Tropical Storm Fay from Karen McGinnis at the Weather Center in Atlanta -- Karen.

KAREN MCGINNIS, METEOROLOGIST: Well, we do have the very latest for you regarding what's happening with Tropical Storm Fay. Fay's not reached its potential. The National Hurricane Center was saying all along, we think that this is going reach to increase a category 1 hurricane.

It's so close to land now that the interaction with the land mass may not be so conducive to it intensifying. Nonetheless, we're still looking at a powerful storm system that could produce a very heavy surf. They're saying outside of some of these reefs, we could see nine to 15-foot storm surges.

The system now is lying about 60 miles to the south of Naples, Florida. So you can see along this eastern edge, we've got these feeder bands and with these feeder bands, the potential for tornadoes -- there is a tornado watch in effect until 8:00 a.m.

This tornado watch was issued early on Monday afternoon. It was supposed to go until 11:00, it has been extended. That's not unusually. Here's the latest information regarding what is happening with Tropical Storm Fay, still sitting at 60-mile-an-hour winds, Hurricane Hunter Plains are saying though the central pressure's gone doing. That's something we look for that potentially could tell us that this is strengthening.

We will continue to update you all throughout the overnight hours.

"LARRY KING LIVE" begins right now.