Return to Transcripts main page

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Pair of Shootings at Church and Missionary Center in Colorado; Did Oprah Win Obama New Support?; Keeping Them Honest: Mike Huckabee

Aired December 10, 2007 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR: A pair of shootings at a church and missionary center in Colorado. We've learned new details just in the last few hours about the gunman and the woman who shot him to death and probably saved many lives by doing so.
Also ahead tonight, Oprah-Bama or Oprah-paloosa depending on your mood. Tens of thousands of people saw them over the weekend. The question now, did she win him new support? We have got some hands early in. Is this a match made in campaign heaven?

And some new poll numbers tonight to show the Republican race has been turned upside down with Mike Huckabee also now coming under new scrutiny. We're keeping them honest.

And he allegedly vanished at sea. He was declared dead. Years later he resurfaced. We're going to look at the price he and his wife might have to pay for his strange disappearance. We'll also tell you how police say he did it; "Crime and Punishment" tonight.

But first, it has happened again. For the second time in less than a week a young man goes on a deadly shooting rampage. Last Wednesday, the killer targeted holiday shoppers in Omaha.

This time, the victims were at two Christian institutions in Colorado. The bloodshed began yesterday. Two targets hit by one gunman. In all, five people, including the suspect were killed.

We're following the latest developments in the story including new details on the suspect. We'll also going to hear from the hero, the church member volunteering as a security guard and how she put an end to the killing spree. We begin with her amazing courage.

Here's CNN's Sean Callebs.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As bad as it was, the shootings at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, could have been much worse if not for Jeanne Assam, one of about a half dozen volunteer security guards at the church who had a weapon. She confronted the gunman, 24- year-old Matthew Murray, head-on.

JEANNE ASSAM, VOLUNTEER SECURITY GUARD, NEW LIFE CHURCH: I saw him and it seemed like the hall was cleared out and I saw him coming through the doors. And I took cover and I waited for him to get closer and I came out of cover and identified myself and engaged him and took him down.

CALLEBS: Assam, a former law enforcement officer was prepared for a confrontation. She had heard about a shooting 80 miles away at the ""Youth with a Mission" Ministries" in Arvada, Colorado. Two people were killed, two wounded.

ASSAM: I saw it on the internet. I saw it that morning and I got chills when I saw it was Colorado and that he had not been apprehended.

CALLEBS: Police now say that Matthew Murray was the shooter in Arvada and 12 hours later in Colorado Springs. Sources tell us that he had worked with "Youth with a Mission" a few years ago, but had a falling out and had sent threatening messages.

Police say after the Arvada shootings, Murray made the hour drive down I-25 to the heart of Colorado Springs and the New Life Church campus and he had a plan of attack.

Police say he first tossed a smoke grenade at the north entrance of New Life. Sunday service had just ended so it was crowded. Murray made a short drive to the east exit of the building.

As soon as he got out of his car he opened fire with an assault rifle hitting five people including the father and two daughters of the Works family, 18-year-old Stephanie and 16-year-old Rachel were killed.

SGT. JEFF JENSON, COLORADO SPRINGS POLICE DEPARTMENT: 24-year- old Matthew Murray was a gunman that was in the parking lot in the east corner of the complex near the east entrance into the worship center. The suspect at this time begins to fire several rounds in the parking lot.

CALLEBS: Inside the chaotic, crowded hallway, Jeanne Assam heard the gun fire.

ASSAM: I'll never forget the gun shots. They were so loud and I was just focused and I just -- I just knew I was not going to wait for him to do any further damage.

CALLEBS: Murray, carrying two pistols, a rifle and about a thousand rounds of ammo was now 80 feet inside the building. Assam says it's not overstating it to say God took over and helped her bring down a killer.

ASSAM: God was with me and I asked him to be with me and he never left my side.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Sean, you're actually one of the few people to get into the church. What did it look like inside?

CALLEBS: It was eerie, disturbing. You can pretty much choose an adjective. The north entrance is over this shoulder; the east entrance where the shootings took place around this way. We went down there.

When you walk through the glass doors they were shattered. The bullet holes in and there were probably about a quarter in size and diameter. Once we went in we could see construction workers in there and they were patching bullet holes.

And probably the most disturbing thing, about 80 feet in there, near a little hallway, an enclave there was a bucket, a mop and we're told that is where Murray died and so we can only imagine what the cleaning utensils were doing there at that hour.

COOPER: Unbelievable story. Sean, appreciate it.

When the suspect starting shooting at the New Life Church, my next guest went into action trying to distract him in the process. Larry Bourbonnais was shot and injured. He also witnessed up close how the volunteer security guard killed the gunman. Larry joins us now only "360."

And on the phone from Brazil where he's doing missionary work, Richard Werner, also a "360" exclusive. He once shared a room with Matthew Murray, the shooter, when Murray was with the church group.

Larry, shortly after you first heard the gunshots, you saw the gun and you saw a security guard who actually had his gun drawn. What did the security guard do?

LARRY BOURBONNAIS, SURVIVED SHOOTING: Well, I ran from the cafeteria in the south where the gun shots were and then I saw him standing in the hallway. So I ran to my left where there was a pillar. The security guard had a handgun out and kept yelling at me to get behind him and I said, "No way, we have to do something."

So, I just yelled I said, "Hand me your handgun, I've been in combat. I'm going to take this guy out." I kept doing that four or five times and he wouldn't so I thought my only option was distract the gunman and so I yelled "Coward," and then I stood out in full view and called him a not nice name and it worked because that's when he raised his rifle and shot.

COOPER: And there was another security guard there who also had his gun drawn, but didn't fire. When you were shot at, what did the gunman look like? Could you actually see his face?

BOURBONNAIS: Oh, yeah. He was all in black and he was very calm and collected, just not moving his head from side to side, but he was kind of checking things out.

And then when I, of course, saw the rifle come up that's when I went back for cover which I found out later was a hollow decorative pillar. And there were a lot of -- I think the bullets splintered. And so initially I thought it was a shotgun because there were a lot of holes.

When I came out the second time to do it all over again that's when I saw the female security volunteer and she -- and the shooter, I guess, what's his name? I just found out an hour ago, Murphy or whatever. Murray was --

COOPER: He fired shots at the female security guard.

BOURBONNAIS: Well, he'd run diagonally so when I came out he was to my left in the hallway and I couldn't see him. And she must have come through the doors and I'm telling you right now she's the hero, not me.

It was the bravest thing I've ever seen including the 14 months in Vietnam. She was heroic, she had no cover. He fired -- I heard him fire three, I heard her fire three and she kept yelling, "surrender," the whole time and she just walked forward like she was walking to her car in the parking lot firing the whole time.

So I paralleled her not to get in her way and went to the wall and worked around the corner. And when we both entered where he was he had slumped backwards and slid down on the floor and expired.

And I grabbed the handgun that he had in his right hand, a 9 mm; a round had gotten not ejected fully so I cleared it, chambered because we didn't know how many more shooters there were.

And then she and I -- I said, "You were so calm." And she said, "I was praying to the Holy Spirit the whole time to guide me and I want to give all the credit to Jesus Christ because I know he spared a lot of people that day." I'm sad for the people that died, but this was a very exciting time for sure.

COOPER: An extraordinary action of courage by that woman and for you to try to distract this guy and get attention.

Richard, I want to turn to you now. You're in Brazil. You were roommates for five months with MURRAY. What kind of a person was he?

RICHARD WERNER, ON THE PHONE: Well, he was actually very quiet. He was a nice kid sometimes, but then sometimes he'd be just like very sarcastic and just made some bizarre comments towards everyone.

COOPER: He talked -- he made noises at night, I've heard you say. What did he describe -- what was he doing, he said?

WERNER: Yes. I wrote down a diary at that time. On October 23, 2002, I woke up at 5:30 in the morning and he was just tossing and turning making some strange noises. And I was like, "Hey, Matthew, what are you doing?" He said, I'm just talking to my voices. Just calm down." I said, "Dude, you have to be kidding me." And he said, "Don't worry, Richard. You're a nice guy. You don't have to worry, the voices they like you."

COOPER: He wasn't actually sent on a mission. What happened?

WERNER: Well, this is something a lot of people are saying that he was kicked out, but he was not, you know? This was -- we got in contact with our director and a few -- a couple of months a year we had a festival, a Christmas festival and at this festival he played two songs and out of the two songs they were very, very bizarre and a lot of the kids really got scared about it and --

COOPER: One was a song by Linkin Park I think the other was a song by Marilyn Manson, which he played at --

WERNER: Yes, it was a version of "Sweet Dreams are Made of These." And the other one was "One Step Closer to the Edge and I'm About to Break."

COOPER: And it was sort of a gaff performance and it made people uneasy who were attending this mission area right?

WERNER: Yeah, sure, because we were all there just playing songs about Christmas, about God and friendship and then he came up with those songs.

COOPER: So his parents were there and with the officials they decided it would be best for him not to go out on a mission.

WERNER: Yes. This was December 19, 2002.

COOPER: Did he seem angry about it?

WERNER: What?

COOPER: Was he angry about that fact?

WERNER: He didn't look like that. Actually he was always, always very calm. Always very calm. He was always speaking in a soft voice and on that day he got out -- we got out of the meeting and he turned to a friend of mine and the only thing he said was like," I have a message for everyone. Just say that now you will see your star."

COOPER: Now you will see your star. Larry, Larry Bourbonnais, do you know why there were armed guards at the church that day? Was it because of the shooting earlier that morning? The people were concerned?

BOURBONNAIS: Well, I since found out they were concerned about the shooting in Arvada, absolutely. They had been notified, but I think they're there every Sunday, but I'm not positive.

COOPER: Okay. I've been told through another person that they knew about the shootings in the morning and had asked for some security to be there. We were trying to just verify that.

BOURBONNAIS: By the way, this shooter was really calm; at least when he was shooting at me. Looked like he was just calm; extremely calm.

COOPER: Just so bizarre. Larry, I appreciate you. I'm glad that things worked out for you. I'm glad you're well enough to talk tonight. Richard Werner appreciate as well, thank you very much.

Up ahead tonight, 30,000 people turned out to see Oprah Winfrey and that other guy who's running for president. Tonight will Oprah fans become Obama voters? We have got some early signs.

And later new numbers showing Mike Huckabee running near the front of the Republican pack. Also drawing tougher scrutiny about what he said about the parole of a rapist and whether he's telling the truth.

Getting higher and in the spotlight, Mike Huckabee winning new converts but also taking heat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: None of us could have predicted what he would have done when he got out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Did he push to parole a rapist? Did he favor quarantining aged patients? People are looking closer at his record and so are we. We're keeping them honest.

Also, missing at sea; declared legally dead. Tonight, how police think he staged his disappearance, the role they say his wife played, the people he fooled; a dead man living in their midst. "Crime and Punishment" only on "360."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Michelle Obama, Barack Obama and the daytime television host, you know starts with an o. Just saying her name people pay attention. Oprah Winfrey has earned an understandable and rare position of trust among Americans, in part by being very careful about what she lends her name to and whom.

That's why her endorsement of Barack Obama strikes such a chord. That and the timing of it coming just as new polling shows Senator Obama rising in support and frontrunner Hillary Clinton fading among registered Democrats nationwide.

Obama is up five percentage points since last month and Senator Clinton is down, even though the gap between them is actually slightly wider in the new poll. Other polling though shows the two running essentially even or close to it in Iowa, New Hampshire as well as South Carolina.

We'll talk about all that in a moment with the best political team on television, but first, the Oprah effect up close.

Here's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Oprah.

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Backstage somebody said, "Are you nervous." I go, "You're damn right, I'm nervous."

CROWLEY: Obama.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've had some big crowds here in Iowa. We have not had this big crowd in Iowa.

CROWLEY: Oh, my! It was a dazzling weekend, a big "O" blitz across three key states and every bit as much strategy at show time, a political one-two step. She brought them out.

WINFREY: You have to care about this country to come out in this kind of weather; 12 degrees freezing rain and snow. You love America. I can see that you do.

CROWLEY: He reeled them in.

OBAMA: Iowa, I need you to stand up!

CROWLEY: More than half the Democratic caucus goers in Iowa are female; seven of ten are 45 or older. This was about them. And she was about him.

WINFREY: I have found the answer. It is the same question that our nation is asking. Are you the one? Are you the one? I'm here to tell you, Iowa, he is the one. Barack Obama!

CROWLEY: They share modest roots. The son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas, he grew up to run for president. Raised in the pre-civil rights south, she grew up to be a mega star. They believe in the reality of possibility.

WINFREY: You know, Dr. King dreamed the dream, but we don't have to just dream the dream anymore. We get to vote that dream into reality.

OBAMA: Because if a few stood up, a few thousand stood up and then a few millions stood up, standing up with courage and conviction, they changed the world! South Carolina, we can change the world!

CROWLEY: In South Carolina, almost half the Democratic primary voters are black. This stop was about them.

WINFREY: These are dangerous times. These are dangerous times. We're all watching "Dancing WITH THE Stars" trying to forget about it, but I know you feel it. Don't you feel it?

I know in the beauty shops and the barbershops here and there's a lot of them in South Carolina because we love to keep our hair done down here. I don't know how you do it with this humidity, but we need a leader who shows us how to hope again and have faith again in America as a force for peace.

CROWLEY: politics is not risk-free for an entertainer and there was some thought she would pull punches when it came to Obama's rivals. The thought was wrong, not that she mentioned Hillary Clinton's pro-Iraq vote.

WINFREY: We recognize that the amount of time you spent in Washington means nothing unless you're accountable for the judgments you made with the time you had.

CROWLEY: And it's not that she directly criticized Clinton for being all over on the issues.

WINFREY: We need a president with clarity and conviction, who knows how to consult his own conscience and proceed with moral authority. We need Barack Obama.

CROWLEY: It was a one-woman tour de force and he was along for quite a ride.

WINFREY: He can bring us all together as one United States of America. As a United States, not the Red States and the Blue States and the left and the right.

CROWLEY: Half the voters in New Hampshire's '04 Democratic primaries identified themselves as independents. This was about them.

OBAMA: I want to summon the entire nation around a higher purpose, rally us around a higher destiny.

CROWLEY: Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire, the double "O" show played in three early states.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was a lot of time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I came for Oprah hoping to hear something good from Obama I and I think I did.

CROWLEY: Bingo. They share a belief that this point in history is a transcendent moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Quick clarification, on the way in to Candy's report we said the gap between Senators Clinton and Obama was wider than it was a month ago. We forgot to actually carry a digit and the gap is narrower, considerably so. Senator Obama has 30 percent now and Senator Clinton 40 a 10-point gap compared to 19 a month ago. Our apologies.

Continuing the discussion now with Candy Crowley in Washington and John King in Sioux City, Iowa. Candy, pretty remarkable weekend in a race where we've seen remarkable weekends. The Obama campaign has got to be happy with this massive turnout. Do they think it will make much of a difference though when it actually comes to whom people want to vote?

CROWLEY: They do, but not quite in the way you might think. They don't think that there will be lots of people who will vote for Barack Obama because Oprah Winfrey endorsed him. They do believe that they've gotten just a treasure trove of material here off her coming and by that I mean they in fact asked for signatures and addresses and names when they gave out tickets.

They asked for people to come in and volunteer for four hours in a Barack Obama campaign headquarters and people got a ticket. So if you wanted a ticket you gave over some of your information to the Barack Obama campaign and they can use that when it comes time to get out to vote.

COOPER: John, Oprah emphasized to the audience that she takes the endorsement of Obama seriously and didn't want to tell people how to vote. How effective was she?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: She brings passion to the campaign, Anderson. You're at the point, 24 days to the Iowa caucuses and 30 days to the New Hampshire primary where energy matters.

The candidates are tired, their volunteers are tired, their paid staff is tired. I was just in New Hampshire last week and you sense it here in Iowa as well. If you're talking to an Obama person, they're full of energy right now. They are full of vigor.

If you're talking to a Clinton person, many of them are tired and they're beleaguered and they're looking around the corner to see what will go wrong next. So energy matters.

If Oprah Winfrey can bring new energy and new infusion to the Obama campaign it is a huge blessing at exactly the right moment. This is when it counts.

COOPER: Candy, especially among female voters and African- American voters how concerned is the Clinton camp if they have made inroads there?

CROWLEY: Well, look I think you can see any number of things that point to the Clinton camp being worried about this and it's not just in Iowa if you win, it's how you win.

If it's a very close race, even if Barack Obama finishes a very close first, that's an okay thing for him. It moves him into New Hampshire. If Hillary Clinton places second this, is not a good thing.

Even though the race has been close in Iowa all along, the perception of her is "Oh, she's the formidable front-runner." She's going to win. She's inevitable and if she loses in Iowa, that definitely starts to drag her down.

COOPER: Candy and John, we're going to have more with you coming up in just a second. We're going to focus on the Republican race, but now more on the endorsement effects.

The raw politics of it. Some of the names were A-list and others were A-list back when Jack and Jacqui were in the White House. Some, well you'll see. And then Fred Thompson, who'll probably be doing all right if he could only endorse himself.

Anyway, the names now from A-list on down from CNN's Tom Foreman. Who's endorsing who?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The problem with celebrity endorsements is just keeping up with them. Virtually every candidate now has some sort of star power. Clinton has Streisand, Giuliani has Duvall, Edwards has Bonny Raitt singing his praise, McCain has Curt Schilling pitching for him. Kucinich has Sean Penn and of course, Huckabee has Chuck Norris.

MIKE HUCKABEE, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Chuck Norris doesn't endorse. He tells America how it's going to be.

FOREMAN: But the power of starlight is hard to measure. In the closing days of John Kerry's campaign, thousands showed up to see Bruce Springsteen saying Kerry was born to run.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've been a fan of Bruce's for a long time, a long time.

FOREMAN: But the boss could not save him. Turns out, Kerry was born to lose. That's the thing about celebrity endorsements. At best, stars can get people to look at a candidate whom they otherwise might ignore, but that doesn't guarantee a vote and at worst, well, look at what some consider the first modern celebrity endorsement.

Frank Sinatra supporting Democrat John Kennedy for president in 1960. When questions about Sinatra and the mob arose, Kennedy pushed away. Sinatra took his money and influence to the Republicans and 20 years later -- saluted President Ronald Reagan.

Still, some celebrities hate the whole idea of playing at politics. The wheel of fortune's Pat Sajak says on his website, if any group of citizens is uniquely unqualified to tell someone else how to vote, it's those of us who live in the sheltered, privileged arena of celebrityhood. One's view doesn't get any clearer from the backseat of a limo. And that is raw politics. Anderson?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I didn't even know Pat Sajak had a blog.

Up next how CNN's new national poll shapes out for the Republicans and why the new front runner is now a political target. We're keeping them honest.

Also in tonight's "Crime and Punishment", Michael Vick's lawyers fumble his defense on dog fighting charges. Why the NFL superstar will be behind bars longer than his co-defendants ahead on "360."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Does it feel like something is happening?

HUCKABEE: Well, it's been feeling that way for the past several months. It certainly has accelerated in the last few weeks, but there's been a growing momentum and it's been as if the fuse has been lit and suddenly there's clear burn going on now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That was Mike Huckabee talking with me in New Hampshire the Friday before last sensing then the momentum and new numbers tonight bear him out. The latest CNN opinion research poll numbers just out show him in a statistical dead heat with Rudy Giuliani among registered Republicans nationwide; 22 percent Mayor Giuliani's 24 percent.

Now, compare that to a month ago when he was running a distant fifth, but with the new popularity also comes a lot more attention to decisions that he made as governor of Arkansas and statements he made as well in particular about AIDS and homosexuality.

Yesterday he refused to back away from his statement 15 years ago. He said about Aids patients and I quote, "We need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague." The other controversy deals with allegations he pushed for the parole of a violent rapist and isn't coming clean about it.

Keeping them honest tonight on those allegations and the facts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUCKABEE: Let the truth be my judge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Our search for the truth begins in 1984, that's when 17- year-old Ashley Stevens, a distant cousin of Bill Clinton was kidnapped and raped. Police arrested this man, Wayne Dumond.

While awaiting trial he was castrated in his home, he says by masked intruders. In 1985 Dumond was convicted and sentenced to life plus 20 years in prison. But in the 1990s, however, there was a campaign calling for Dumond's freedom.

It was led by people believing he was innocent and his sentence should be commuted. Others believe he was rehabilitated and pressed for supervised parole and then Governor Mike Huckabee wrote Dumond a later.

"My desire is that you be released from prison," Huckabee told Dumond. "I feel that parole is the best way for your re-introduction to society." Now what Huckabee said back then has become an issue in his presidential race with some saying the former governor pushed for Dumond's freedom.

Huckabee disputes that claim. Here's what he now tells CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEOATAPE)

HUCKABEE: My only official in this was I denied his commutation. I did consider it. I even thought that he had met the criteria for parole and supported it. I wished I hadn't. But I didn't parole him and governors don't parole people in Arkansas.

COOPER: But the state parole board did release Dumond in 1999 requiring him to leave the state. At the time, Huckabee said that requirement would help.

HUCKABEE: It gives the victim and her family every sense of protection and some sense of distance, but also gives Mr. Dumond an opportunity to get away from the state and from what he's experienced and move to start a new life.

COOPER: Huckabee says he favored parole, but opposed his outright release. But one former parole board member told ABC news Governor Huckabee pushed for Dumond's parole.

CHARLES CHASTAIN, FORMER ARKANSAS PAROLE BOARD MEMBER: He went on to say. "I think this is guy who grew up on the wrong side of the track and may have gotten a raw deal."

COOPER: Another ex-board member told the "Arkansas Times", "I signed the papers because the governor wanted Dumond paroled. I was thinking the governor was working for the best interest of the state." Huckabee denies the accusations saying they're an attempt to smear him.

HUCKABEE: These people who make these allegations not only did so six years later, but did so after I did not reappoint them.

COOPER: What happened after Dumond was paroled was horrific. Just weeks after his release in 1999, Dumond sexually assaulted and murdered Carol Sue Shields in Missouri. Authorities are convinced he murdered another woman, Sarah Andresek (PH). And he died in prison in 2005 before he could be charged with the crime.

Lois Davidson is the mother of Carol Sue Shields.

LOIS DAVIDSON, MOTHER OF CAROL SUE SHIELDS: I was very angry to know that somebody like that had been let out of the pen and had moved into Missouri. I think Mr. Huckabee should have looked at his background more.

COOPER: As for the presidential candidate, he says the truth is now being twisted.

HUCKABEE: For people to now politicize these deaths and to try to make a political case out of it rather than to simply understand that a system failed and that we ought to extend our grief and heartfelt sorrow to these families, I just regret that politics is reduced to that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: We're back now with CNN's Candy Crowley in Washington and in Iowa, Governor Huckabee's leading the pack, John King. John, how damaging has this parole story been?

KING: As yet, Anderson, there's no evidence it has been damaging. Mike Huckabee continues to rise in the poll, but you do get a sense his campaign is starting to field more and more questions about it.

Within the hour I was about 20 minutes north of here in the town of (inaudible), talking to a Huckabee volunteer someone who's very active in the campaign. He says more and more now people are asking him questions about his record as governor specifically about this case and also about his record on taxes and immigration.

He says he turns them to the website for more information and he says he believes Governor Huckabee has handled it well so far. The big question, Anderson, is will one of his rivals take that issue into a TV ad. Crime, especially a heinous crime like that can be a powerful issue.

All of his opponents have been studying it and many of them thinking about it. The question is will they put up a very tough negative TV ad. That is a question we still do not have the answer to.

COOPER: Well, it's clear all the campaigns are pouring over everything about Governor Huckabee's record. Candy, he's also coming under fire right now for a comment he made about Aids in 1992 on an Associated Press questionnaire. He wrote and I quote, "If the federal government is truly serious about doing something with the AIDS virus, we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague."

He was asked about that yesterday and this is how he responded. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUCKABEE: I simply made the point and I still believe this today that in the late '80s and early '90s when we didn't know as much as we do now about AIDS we were acting more out of political correctness than we were about the normal public health protocols.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: He said this in 1992 not 1982. He's essentially talking about quarantine.

CROWLEY: Absolutely. And it had been shown at least the experts at that time, by the time he made that statement had said that it was not a communicable through most of the normal things that you think of.

So the fact of the matter is I do think that this begins to chip away. I think what Huckabee may be blessed with now is the fact that his major rival is Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney has his own problems on both the scores that Huckabee is now fighting.

One, that he changes his position on things. Two, that he, in fact, with Romney, appointed a judge who then let a convicted murderer go free who then went on to murder again. So there's kind of enough dirt out there that in the Republican campaign it may not make a lot of difference with Huckabee.

And then when you talk about the AIDS crisis within the Republican primary, I doubt that sort of thing is going hurt him.

COOPER: We'll see, John hinted at this, Mitt Romney is about to launch an ad about illegal immigration targeting Governor Huckabee about his record about where he's on illegal immigration and we'll see what effect that has. But as candy said it is the beginning of a chipping away.

John King, Candy Crowley, thank you very much, part of the best political team on television.

So will a big name in politics seat at the White House in '08. Gary Tuchman has that and more in the "360 Bulletin." Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, Al Gore said it again today, quote, "I have no plans to run in 2008." But he's not ruling out a future run. "Some day, maybe."

Gore in Norway accepting the Nobel Peace Prize today told CNN he will only get back to politics as a presidential candidate and won't accept an appointed job if asked by the next administration. Mr. Gore won the Nobel for his work against global warming.

At Walt Disneyworld, a grandma arrested. Maryanne Richardson of Pennsylvania was busted for trying to take a loaded handgun to the happiest place on earth.

The gun was found in her purse by security screeners as she tried to enter the park with her daughter and three grandchildren. Richardson says she forgot she had it with her. I wonder what else was in her purse.

And Anderson, it seems the White House Press Secretary missed some history classes. Dana Perino admitted at an NPR ((PH)) game show that she did not know what the Cuban missile crisis was when a reporter once made reference to it.

Perino who was 35 was born about a decade after the 1962 U.S.- Soviet showdown, but still it's a bit surprising. However, we'd have more concerned if it was her boss that didn't know what it was.

COOPER: She did not know what the Cuban missile crisis was?

TUCHMAN: She didn't know what it was, unfortunately.

COOPER: Wow! Ok. Great, all right. There you go. Fascinating. Gary, time now for our segment, "What Were They Thinking?"

Former major league pitcher Mike Lattel is pitching a new product. Have you seen this one Gary? It's one that can protect your bits and pieces, shall we say. He wasn't afraid to test it on himself. Take a look.

This video is a big hit on YouTube. A grown man taking a low heat from a pitching machine to test. Here's the product name, the Nutty Buddy Athletic Cup. Yes, that's right. It's called the Nutty Buddy Cup. Oh! There you go!

TUCHMAN: Anderson, as a former catcher in youth baseball I can tell you that demonstration was very traumatizing to me.

COOPER: I thought you were going to give a testimonial for the nutty buddy.

TUCHMAN: Not today.

COOPER: Yes, I've supplied nutty buddies to all of the staff here so we're playing that tonight. Gary thanks.

Here is John Roberts with us coming up, no stranger to nutty buddy himself; tomorrow on "American Morning", John?

JOHN ROBERS: Thanks, Anderson. Wake up to the most news in the morning including the frustrating new tangle of red tape for new Americans.

Hundreds of thousands of people have done everything right to become citizens. They came here legally, stood in line and paid the fee. What's holding them back from being able to vote in the historic election next November?

Find out tomorrow morning beginning at 6 a.m. Eastern on "American Morning." Anderson?

COOPER: John, thanks very much. Now, let's take a look at the nutty buddy again. Do we have that?

Oh, it's good times.

Still to come, have you seen this story? It's so bizarre. This guy said he had amnesia. But now a missing man's headache that is getting a whole lot worse. Take a look.

COOPER: Missing at sea, declared legally dead. Tonight, how police think he staged his disappearance. The role they say his wife played and the people he fooled; a dead man living in their midst. "Crime and Punishment" only on "360."

And later, Michael Vick learns his fate.

The question is did he get a fair sentence and could he ever play in the NFL again when "360" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In our "Crime and Punishment" segment, what a strange trip it has been for this guy. A few years ago he disappeared at sea and the last anyone saw him, he was in a canoe. But something strange happened not too long ago to the presumed dead canoe man.

He resurfaced and this time police are making sure he sticks around. In fact, he was in court today. Why? And where did he go? CNN's Gary Tuchman investigates.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN: He was officially a dead man, but no more.

DEPT. SUPT. TONY HUTCHINSON, CLEVELAND POLICE: No doubt the coroner was as surprised at these recent events as everyone else.

TUCHMAN: It may read like a cheesy soap opera episode, but the story of formerly dead John Darwin is real. A former prison officer disappeared five years ago while on a canoeing trip in the North Sea off the coast of the England. His canoe and paddles were found.

A massive air and sea rescue operation was launched, but John Darwin was never located and was declared dead. This month though, Darwin wandered into a British police station claiming he had amnesia.

HUTCHINSON: He went on to say he had no recollection of what happened in the previous five years.

TUCHMAN: it seemed to be a miraculous story. Where had this man been? What had he been doing? Police are now beginning to answer the questions and it doesn't appear to be such a good news story.

John Darwin is under arrest, appearing in court today. Police saying he changed his appearance and faked his disappearance. At least in part so he could cash in on a $50,000 life insurance policy.

HUTCHINSON: People may have seen him when he looked like this. People may have known him as John Jones.

TUCHMAN: John Jones or John Darwin is married to this woman who was officially a widow.

HUTCHINSON: In that statement she talked about her sadness of having no grave to visit to mourn for her husband.

TUCHMAN: But police have now also arrested Ann Darwin and have charged her in connection with the deception. She was arrested after flying back to Britain from Panama where she had moved and this photo taken by a Panamanian tourism company shows the two of them together when he was supposed to be dead.

HUTCHINSON: In particular we'll be discussing with Mrs. Darwin the version of events over the past five years as being attributed to her.

TUCHMAN: The Darwins have two sons. Authorities believe that just like the police and public, even they were duped and thought their father was dead.

A relative talks about how the family feels. MARGARET BURNS, DARWIN'S AUNT: They're delighted he's alive and well and back, but I'm more angry as to what he's put them through.

TUCHMAN: John Darwin is no longer dead, but his secretive lifestyle has reached a dead end.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Such a bizarre story and to not even tell your kids. More "Crime and Punishment" ahead. Could Michael Vick have thrown his last pass in the NFL? Today the disgraced star received a longer prison sentence than either of his co-defendants. CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin tells us why.

Plus, a deadly ice storm and a state of emergency. We'll tell you where and how long it's going to be around for next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Breaking news, a quick update on our top story. A pair of shootings in Colorado over the weekend one at a church and one at a missionary center. We now have a face to go with the shooter's name.

The picture just coming in to the newsroom taken five years ago is of Matthew Murray, 24 years old shot dead at the scene of the second shooting, but not before killing four other people. Confirmation that this is in fact a picture of Murray comes from two guests earlier, Richard Werner who bunked with Murray and Larry Bourbonnais who faced down Murray in those bloody final moments yesterday in the church.

More "Crime and Punishment" tonight from star quarterback to convicted felon and now prison inmate. Today Michael Vick was sentenced to 23 months behind bars for his role in the barbaric illegal dog fighting ring.

As part of a plea deal Vick was hoping to receive a 12 to 18- month sentence, but the judge had other plan. Vick apologized for his actions and said he accepts responsibility, but his legal troubles are far from over.

Joining me now for more of the story, CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. He got more than the co-defendants.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: He did.

COOPER: Why?

TOOBIN: He was the big fish. He was, even though not the most active in the actual dog fighting, he financed the operation. This could not have gone forward, but for his leadership and money.

And, you know, given his place in the world, the fact that as the judge said he's a role model to many it was almost inevitable that the judge would sentence him to a longer sentence.

COOPER: He did take part of a plea agreement and he even gave up early. Did that factor to help him?

TOOBIN: It certainly didn't hurt him, but the key fact is he pled guilty after his co-defendants. At that point he had to plead guilty because there was no chance he was going get acquitted. And judges give you less credit for pleading guilty if you're the last one in.

COOPER: Is he going to serve the full 23 months?

TOOBIN: He'll serve probably 85 percent. Under federal law, there's no such thing as parole anymore, but you can cut off 15 percent for good behavior. So about 20 months.

COOPER: He still faces state dog fighting charges in Virginia.

TOOBIN: This is the real wild card in his legal situation because the same conduct, the same dog fighting ring has led to these other state charges. And the double jeopardy clause does not prevent this kind of case from going forward.

His lawyers will undoubtedly argue to the state prosecutors, "Look, he's suffered enough. He's been sentenced." But he's so unpopular that there's no real percentage probably and the prosecutor's saying what the heck? I might as well prosecute.

COOPER: As far as playing again? Is that possible?

TOOBIN: It's possible. First of all, he's got to get out of prison and he'll be almost 30 when this sentence is over, we'll see what happens in Virginia.

There's almost no precedent for someone being out of the league for this long and then getting back in. Plus, even after all these sentences are over, Roger Goodelle, the commissioner of football has to say you're permitted to go back in because he can still be suspended after the sentence is over. So his football career is hanging by a thread.

COOPER: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks, Jeff.

Up next, the state of Oklahoma, all of it is under a state of emergency. Much of the middle of the nation is under tonight, at least 13 people are dead and more than 600,000 homes are without power. An ice storm like you wouldn't believe.

And a different kind of emergency in Pennsylvania. This is what you expect to see. It's not what you expect to see in the airport tarmac. It's not what you want to see; a foamy mess. That is our shot of the day next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: The shot of the day is coming up, a very bad day at the airport. Take a look at that. That is all foam out there on the runway. Air traffic control, we need this cleaned up ASAP. Wait until you hear who actually made this mess.

First Gary Tuchman joins us again with the 360 News and Business Bulletin.

TUCHMAN: Anderson, there's a state of emergency in Oklahoma tonight after an ice storm hit, downing power lines and leaving more than half a million homes and businesses in the dark. At least 13 people across the region have died on icy roads and more bad weather is on the way.

Butte, Montana, the funeral for an American icon. Thousands paid their respects to Evel Knievel; many recalling how the motorcycle daredevil was fearless in flight. Knievel died last month after years of failing health.

And on Wall Street stocks rally as investors wait to see if the Federal Reserve will cut interest rate again tomorrow. The Dow surged 101 points to close at 13,727. The Nasdaq at a 12, the S&P gained 11 points.

Anderson, we'll keep an eye on the fed tomorrow.

COOPER: Gary, time for the shot of the day. We take you to the northeast Philadelphia airport where family day at a helicopter hangar didn't quite go as planned; a lot of foam everywhere, even covering some people and some helicopters.

Why all the foam, you ask? Because one curious kid, one lovable urchin could not resist the sign that said "Don't hit button unless in an emergency." No word on the price tag to clean this up. Let that be a lesson to us all not to take the kid to hangar day at the airport.

TUCHMAN: I used to do that regularly, if I see a button that says "Don't hit it," I hit it. I once hit a fire alarm when I was kid. And the firemen came and they almost put me in jail. It was very traumatizing also for me there.

COOPER: Not only did you trump that video with some other dramatic animal video. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: This is historic. The first time a long eared gerboa has been caught on tape in its natural habitat. These images are from the Mongolian Gobi desert. There they are. Look at those long at those long-eared things.

The tiny, endangered rodent is known as the Mickey Mouse of the desert due to its large ears; kind of cute. And actually, I heard about this animal first from CNN's own Bill Schneider. It was actually spotted nesting on our own senior political analyst.

I don't know if you saw the video Gary, earlier today. Let's show the video. Apparently the long-eared gerboa was found nuzzling up to Bill. It was so cold in Washington he didn't feel it.

The top of his head was frozen. By the time a technician told him the rare animal was on his head it had apparently scurried off. So opportunity missed.

TUCHMAN: I thought Bill actually was a Soviet premiere.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Up next, my New Year's resolution. That's right, I'm starting early. It's what's on the radar when "360" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Yes, I was checking my blackberry, you caught me. On the radar tonight, my New Year's resolution. That's right I kind of started early this year. I vowed to write more on the 360 blog in the year 2008. I know, not the most exciting of resolutions, but I'm a pretty boring person.

Today on the blog I asked you what should our lead be tonight? There was kind of a debate in the newsroom at the time I was e- mailing. Laura in Tulsa, Oklahoma suggested ice storm kills 13. That's a pretty serious story.

Thank you Laura, you're right. It is incredibly serious. I hope you and everyone else in Oklahoma is doing OK tonight.

Cary of Lowell, Indiana says that rape murder and abductions happen everyday but the political scene is a once in eight years happening. Keep on it.

We are keeping on it. I hope you liked our political coverage tonight. We spent a lot of time on it.

We did though start tonight with the Colorado shooting.

Faye of Vacaville, California says the same thing about the race for the White House. She writes, "If I were running things at 360, I'd Vick and even the Colorado shootings and lead with politics because that's what's going to ultimately affect us the most. Good work so far with keeping your blogging resolution."

I know, I think I missed Friday which is the only day since I've made the resolution last week but we are all off Fridays. So I hope you'll excuse me on that one.

Weigh in anytime. Go to cnn.com/360. If you're watching us around the world right now, CNN Today is next. Here in America, Larry King is coming up. And I'll see you tomorrow night. Thanks for watching.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com