Return to Transcripts main page


New Developments in Cases Against David Copperfield and O.J. Simpson ; Oprah`s School Scandal

Aired October 29, 2007 - 23:00:00   ET


A.J. HAMMER, CO-HOST: "Celebrity Justice!" stunning new developments in the cases against David Copperfield and O.J. Simpson. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST: And Paris Hilton has a run-in with the paparazzi, literally. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.

HAMMER: On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Oprah`s school scandal. A stunning new apology from Oprah Winfrey about allegations of abuse at her school for girls.


ALICIA QUARLES, CORRESPONDENT, "THE ASSOCIATED PRESS": For her to speak to these parents on a one-on-one basis, you know she had to be hurting.

HAMMER: Tonight, what did Oprah really say, and why would Oprah, one of the most powerful women in the world, give out her personal phone number and e-mail address? Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with the shocking new developments in Oprah`s school scandal.

Is this the un-sexiest woman in the world? Are you kidding me? Tonight Sarah Jessica Parker, Sandra Oh, Madonna, just some of the stars on a controversial list naming the un-sexiest women. Tonight, who else made this unbelievable list? And SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has got to ask, is this the most offensive list ever? Tonight a fired up debate in a showbiz special report, "Sexy or Sexist?"

HAMMER: Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.

ANDERSON: Hi there, everyone. I`m Brooke Anderson coming to you tonight from Hollywood, and tonight`s "Celebrity Justice!" court called to order for Britney Spears, superstar magician David Copperfield, and O.J. Simpson. The big, breaking legal developments for all three of those coming up.

HAMMER: But first, Oprah`s school scandal. Tonight, a remarkable new apology from Oprah Winfrey. Oprah has been trying to fix a mess at a special school that she opened for girls, disturbing claims of possible abuse. And tonight, Oprah is going to extremes to let parents and kids know that she takes this all very seriously.


HAMMER (voice over): The crisis at Oprah Winfrey`s school for girls in Africa may be half a world away, but for Oprah Winfrey, it`s hitting very close to home.

QUARLES: This is a huge crisis for Oprah and her school. These allegations she has not taken lightly.

HAMMER: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT takes you all the way to Henley-on-Klip(ph), South Africa near Johannesburg, where Oprah`s $40-million dream project, the Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy is wrapped up in a disturbing abuse scandal.

JO PIAZZA, CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Some of the reports say that one of the dorm matrons grabbed a girl by the throat and slammed her up against a wall. Other reports say that one of the dorm matrons was fondling one of the young girls.

HAMMER: Now, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT brings you dramatic new developments that have just happened in the abuse scandal at Oprah`s school, including brand new information about Oprah`s emotional apology to the students and the parents. We`ll tell you how this is one crisis that Oprah, a former abuse victim herself, is now taking very personally.

QUARLES: She put her whole heart and soul into this school, so for her to speak to these parents on a one-on-one basis, you know she had to be hurting.

HAMMER: This story is big news in Johannesburg, South Africa. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT turns to CNN`s Johannesburg correspondent Robin Kerno who tells us that Oprah has dropped everything to deal with this crisis.

ROBIN KERNO, CNN JOHANNESBURG CORRESPONDENT: What we do know is that Oprah Winfrey herself flew into South Africa to deal with the situation, and that she appointed some private investigators - in fact, flew over an investigator from the States.

HAMMER: And during one trip to South Africa, Oprah reportedly faced a wrenching task, facing the scared parents who trusted Oprah with their daughters. Alicia Quarles of "The Associated Press" tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT the new information.

QUARLES: "" is reporting that Oprah flew into South Africa and had a meeting with the parents of the school and they said that she broke down in tears.

HAMMER: Oprah reportedly said to the parents, quote "I`ve disappointed you. I`m so sorry. I`m so sorry." The head mistress Oprah hand picked to run the school has been placed on paid leave. The staffer accused of abuse reportedly has been fired.

QUARLES: Since Oprah was so hands on in hand-picking the staff and interviewing them, for her, there has got to be a deep sense of loss and betrayal if these allegations are true.

HAMMER: And how`s this for access? Oprah also reportedly gave the students her personal phone number and e-mail address so they could come to her with future problems.

QUARLES: Oprah is not messing around. She didn`t just release a statement saying, "Oh, my god, this is so sad." She wants to know what is going on and she`s taking these allegations very seriously.


HAMMER: Oprah opened the school with pride and great fanfare this past January as a place where South Africa`s poorest girls can get an education they otherwise wouldn`t.

WINFREY: I don`t know how to explain to you how it`s like every single thing that has ever happened in your life, including being sexually abused as a child.

HAMMER: Oprah told CNN`s Anderson Cooper that her own history of abuse bonds her with some of her students.

WINFREY: I have a lot of girls who have been raped at 2 and raped at 5 and sexually molested for years and coming from physical abuse and bad circumstances. And I now realize all of that has come full circle for me so that I see myself in them.

QUARLES: She herself is a victim of abuse. She`s worked years to get over that and to try to heal herself from that. So for her to find out that this has allegedly gone on in her own school, she couldn`t just sit on that.

HAMMER: CNN`s Johannesburg correspondent Robin Kerno(ph)tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT this scandal is now a police matter.

KERNO(ph): Police tell me that based on that report they`ve opened a case of abuse and that currently they are interviewing the witnesses. Also, they say that once that process is complete, they are going to follow through with criminal proceedings.

HAMMER: And while some parents of Oprah`s students have complained about the school, others are backing Oprah. Meanwhile, the talk show host is giving everything she has to putting this scandal to rest.

QUARLES: Oprah really wants to get to the heart of this matter and get back to the education.


HAMMER: Now we want to hear from you for our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day." Oprah`s school scandal: will it tarnish her reputation? Let us know what you think at TONIGHT. You can also e-mail us at

ANDERSON: Tonight, the Britney-K-Fed cliffhanger. Right now, Britney Spears is hoping to get back 50-50 custody of her two children after a dramatic courtroom showdown on Friday. Today, the judge in the case made a move, but for Britney, not a big enough move as far as she`s concerned. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with the late developments. And with us from Los Angeles "In Touch Weekly" senior editor Kim Serafin. In New York, Ryan Smith "BET" talk show host and entertainment attorney. Kim, Ryan, great to see you both. And you know, as we know, both Britney and Kevin were in court on Friday for three hours making their cases. I`ve got to tell you, everybody was expecting a decision then. Ryan, why did you think the judge didn`t make a decision on Friday? Everybody wanted some sort of resolution.

RYAN SMITH, ENTERTAINMENT ATTORNEY: Well, the judge needs time to go for the facts and go through what he heard. And there was a lot to be heard here. Britney is trying to get custody reinstated for not meeting certain requirements that the commissioner laid down. And he really wants to get the facts. He wants to make sure that before he makes a decision that could possibly give her custody back that he is making the right move, and that takes time.

ANDERSON: Well, he did make, you know, one major decision on Friday. And today, we did get our first look at the actual court order. It was a small victory for Britney. Basically, the commissioner said that Britney is not going to be videotaped during any depositions in the case. During those depositions. Now, Kim, why is it very important that Britney not be videotaped as she testifies?

KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, of course, what happened on Friday when the lawyers were in court, Britney`s lawyer did not want her videotaped. Kevin Federline`s lawyers did, because he said it`s not just what she says. It`s the context she says it in. It`s the sarcasm in her voice, you know. You get a lot more if you see what she`s doing. Of course, Britney`s lawyer argued, "No, because if it happens, it`s going to end up on TMZ or YouTube or it will certainly be out there.

Now of course, initially, Commissioner Scott Gordon said, well, it doesn`t look like from what I see that she minds the media attention. In fact, she seems to be courting the press. But ultimately he did rule that it would not be videotaped. This is obviously a good thing, a step in the right direction for Britney.

Now, of course, Britney`s lawyer did say that there was some sort of change and they`re very pleased, but he couldn`t say what it was. Kevin Federline`s lawyer also said, yes, he believes the court might modify the custody order - but he didn`t know if they were very pleased.

ANDERSON: Yes, I`m being pretty tightlipped about that. Well, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT was at that hearing, and we can tell you that we observed really strange behavior. Britney Spears went to the restroom at least three times during the hearing and kept changing her hairstyle, her appearance.

And according to "Extra," when asked how she was doing, Britney`s response was "Eat, it lick it, snort it," and we can`t use the other word that she used. Now, given everything that`s happened, Ryan, shouldn`t Britney be on her best behavior, even if it is in the hallway?

SMITH: She should be. But, you know what? Let`s back up a little built and realize that this is a custody hearing, and these things are very difficult. Now I know she`s erratic. I know we see her every day doing all these strange things. But in custody hearings they are very emotional.

All these things happened, and you don`t know what`s going to happen to your custody. So what she does outside the courtroom is unlikely to affect the commissioner`s decision in this case, in terms of how many times she went to the bathroom, what she said to reporters. That doesn`t necessarily tell you how she`s going to raise her children.

So, yes, she should be on her best whatever, but the important thing is being in your best behavior in the courtroom. Be contrite. Be accommodating to the judge. You know, be forthright. That`s what`s key. And it seems like she might have done that on Friday.

ANDERSON: Hopefully. So, you know, be a reasonable, responsible person in your life.

SMITH: Right.

ANDERSON: And tomorrow, also a big day for Britney. For the first time, it really has nothing to do with legal troubles. Her new album, "Blackout" finally will be released. And I have to point out the irony that it`s coming out on the same day as the comeback album from the Backstreet Boys. And I want you to listen now to what Nick Carter of the Back Street Boys told SHOWBIZ TONIGHT about why he thinks that Britney became a train wreck.


NICK CARTER, BACKSTREET BOYS MEMBER: She didn`t have a good support team, anybody to really say, hey, you know, this is not right or this is wrong, whatever you are doing. You know, it`s unfortunate, but I think that`s the main thing that you have to have. You have to have a support system, and be grounded.

ANDERSON: Kim, he seems pretty wise. He`s got it right, doesn`t he?

SERAFIN: Oh, I think that`s definitely true. And I think what people have been saying from the very beginning is that Britney really didn`t have people around her, you know. She`s now reconnected with her mother, but her long-time manager, Larry Rudolph(ph) is gone. She`s separated with her new management company. And what Kevin has been saying all along is that even when she has put people around her, she doesn`t listen to them, and that seems to be the sort of recurring problem in her life.

Certainly she can afford the best lawyers money can buy, the best PR people money can buy. It`s just she has to listen to them. And that seems to be the obstacle she has to get over.

ANDERSON: Just listen to the people around you, and I have to say some of the reviews have been very positive. She could be a success in spite of herself. All right. Ryan Smith and Kim Serafin, thank you for being here. We appreciate it.

SMITH: Sure.

SERAFIN: Thanks.

HAMMER: There are stunning new developments tonight in two more star cases. Brand new info about David Copperfield`s shocking sexual assault investigation and yet another new twist in the O.J. Simpson case. We`ve got it with "Celebrity Justice!" coming up next. ANDERSON: Also, Sarah Jessica Parker has been named the un-sexiest woman in the world. What? You heard me right, though. Un-sexiest. Oh, yes. And Sandra Oh made the list too. This list really got us all fired up today. I found it to be just plain offensive. We got a fired up panel ready to debate. That`s coming up in a showbiz special report, "Sexy or Sexist." Also this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE NEWS ANCHOR: Good morning at news 10 -


Come on. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) You can`t go wrong with a desk full of screaming news anchors.

ANDERSON: What was all this fuss about? It`s really funny. You will get to see it when we fill you in coming up next on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.


ANDERSON: New tonight, a federal grand jury takes on the sexual assault investigation against magician David Copperfield. And also new tonight, another man turns on O.J. Simpson in the armed robbery case that could mean hard time for O.J.

Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. This is TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. Tonight "Celebrity Justice!" Dramatic turns in both the Copperfield and Simpson cases.

Joining me from Hollywood tonight, investigative journalist Jane Velez-Mitchell and author of the stupendous book, "Secrets Can Be Murder." And from Hollywood as well, editorial director of "," Ken Baker.

Ken and Jane, we`re now learning more about these claims against Copperfield. An alleged victim is saying that Copperfield raped and threatened her, reportedly in the Bahamas where Copperfield owns a small island. She filed a complaint with Seattle police when she returned home.

And she also reportedly told police that Copperfield singled her out after a magic show. Jane, how typical is it for a federal grand jury to get involved in a case like this one, particularly when the alleged crime here happened outside of the country?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: A.J., it`s very unusual, but what it tells me is that authorities are taking this woman`s claims very, very seriously, indeed. And they undoubtedly have more evidence and information than we in the public have. But I have to stress, it`s very hard to prove a crime or an incident or a case that occurred overseas.

Look at the tragedy involving Aruba and Natalie Holloway. Look at what happened to George Smith who disappeared off a cruise ship in the Mediterranean. These cases remain unsolved.

It`s so hard to go back into the past when it`s across an ocean. Now, unless they have some bombshell evidence, and I`m talking videotape of the alleged incident or DNA evidence or a pattern of behavior involving other women, I think it`s going to be very difficult to prosecute this case.

ANDERSON: So he may not get prosecuted and he has denied the accusations against him, talking about David Copperfield here, through his attorney. He said I didn`t do this. Whether or not he is found guilty, Ken, we`re talking about serious charges here. Is the damage done? Do you think this case has already tarnished Copperfield`s reputation?

KEN BAKER, EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "USMAGAZINE.COM": Well, it`s definitely tarnished his reputation, I mean. But he did have a reputation before as being kind of creepy. And I think like right now - I think when people are out there calling him "David Creeperfield," it doesn`t hurt his image. I mean, it doesn`t help his image. It definitely hurts his image.

But I think that Jane made a really good point. If this becomes a he- said-she-said kind of thing, he very well may be cleared of this. If this rape kit that has been reported with - that was done on the woman back in Seattle - like they went in there and she went to the doctor. If there`s something that is proven through DNA or anything like that, then he could be in real big trouble.

HAMMER: The thing that`s really unusual is usually a grand jury investigation is held to some degree of secrecy. Yet, it got out in this case. I want to move on to O.J. Simpson. We know that he is accused of being part of an armed robbery in Vegas because he wanted to get back some of his memorabilia. Well, today a guy named Michael McClinton(ph) became now the third defendant to agree to plead to a lesser charge in exchange for testimony against O.J. I want you guys to listen to what Bruce Fromong - he`s one of the guys who allegedly robbed - one of the guys allegedly robbed by O.J. and his crew. This is what he told the CBS "Early Show." Watch this.


BRUCE FROMONG, ALLEGEDLY ROBBED BY O.J.: All the rats are jumping ship now. Everybody is trying to save themselves and going ahead and, you know, decided to testify against O.J. So people are starting to find out that what I had said happened actually happened exactly the way we said it did.


HAMMER: All the rats have jumped ship. Yes, we have three rats now, three guys who have rolled over on O.J. Jane, do you think that prosecutors are looking for the big prize here? They want to get the big fish, O.J. Simpson. They had their sights set firmly on him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they should want the big fish, O.J. Simpson, not just because he is O.J., but because he is the instigator in all of this. It was him. He is the one who corralled all these guys to go get his stuff. He wasn`t getting somebody else`s stuff, and I think it`s curtains for him.

You have somebody now saying he was the one, O.J. asked me to bring the guns. That totally flies in the face of what O.J. Simpson said, namely, he was totally innocent, there were no guns. He just went to inquire about getting his stuff back. I think is he in serious trouble with 12 criminal charges. Even if they get him on one or two, he`s going away for a long time.

HAMMER: But you say, they don`t want him just because is he O.J. Simpson. Ken, what do you think about that? I mean do you think it`s a little skewed here because there are quite a few people who do want to see O.J. behind bars one way or another?

BAKER: I think the sources that we`ve talked to in Vegas say that the DA really doesn`t want to bring this to a trial. They really do want him to cop a plea and are willing for him to take a lesser sentence. They`re going through a whole prolonged trial that becomes a big media circus. They actually don`t want that.

I think that O.J. is a big distraction for what they`re trying to do there, which is - obviously Vegas has their hands full. I`ll tell you one thing, though, there`s one person that definitely wants O.J. Simpson to go away for life, which is a possibility, by the way. If you read the sentencing law, it is one of the guidelines.


HAMMER: Who are you talking about? Because we`ve got to go, Ken. Are you talking about Fred Goldman(ph)?

BAKER: I`m talking about Fred Goldman. He told me a couple of weeks ago. He goes, "I want him to rot in jail for life."

HAMMER: Got to wrap you there. Jane Velez-Mitchell and Ken Baker, I thank you both.


BAKER: Thanks.

HAMMER: So, Renee Zellweger is fed up with the paparazzi.


RENEE ZELLWEGER, ACTRESS: We`re talking about illegal activity. Just because there`s a red light, they don`t stop. And just because there`s not a parking space doesn`t mean that they don`t park their cars and get out.


HAMMER: Wow. Renee got so passionate about this topic. And when we talked, she told me why she feels sorry for Britney Spears and why Renee took some drastic measures to get the paparazzi out of her life. That`s coming up.

ANDERSON: Also, Sarah Jessica Parker has been named the un-sexiest woman in the world. Yes. You heard me right. Un-sexiest. Oh, yes, and Sandra Oh made the list too. This list really got us all upset today. I found it to be just plain offensive. We`ve got a fired up panel ready to debate coming up in a show biz special report, "Sexy or Sexist?"

ANDERSON: And I want you to check this out. It turns out a Hollywood A lister is actually a distant relative of Barack Obama. And I`m talking about a major, major star here. Who do you think it is? Clooney? Pitt? Maybe Julia Roberts? I`ll tell you next on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

You can stay on top the latest and most provocative entertainment news stories by signing up for the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsletter. Just go to Click on newsletter on the left-hand side of the page. We`ll e-mail it to you everyday.


ANDERSON: Tomorrow a really big day for Britney Spears. And now, for once I don`t mean she has to go to court. In case you forgot, Britney makes more than trouble. She makes music, and she actually has a CD coming out tomorrow. But will it be enough to save her career? Not to mention her image. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has the first reviews of Britney`s new album. That`s tomorrow.

HAMMER: All right. You know that game "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" where basically you can connect anyone to Hollywood to Kevin Bacon? Kind of proves what a small world Hollywood really is.

But tonight we can top it because you`re not going to believe who is actually related by blood. Try this one on for size. Senator Barack Obama is related to Brad Pitt. A genealogy web site called "" dug this up while they were doing searches for the "New York Post." They say Obama and Pitt have the same great, great, great, great, great, great, great great grandfather. Yes, that was eight greats. "The Post" told Pitt about this and he said if it`s true, he considers it to be great company.

Also, in the long lost relative category, Drew Barrymore and Shirley Temple. I guess the whole child star thing was in the genes. And finally, Clint Eastwood and Arnold Schwarzenegger are reportedly sharing a family tree.

ANDERSON: All right. On what planet are Sarah Jessica Parker, Sandra Oh, and Madonna judged the least sexy women? It is a list that got us all fired up and a little bit offended. That`s next in showbiz special report, "Sexy or Sexist?"

Also, Paris Hilton has a run-in with the paparazzi, literally. Like Paris ever just stays home and play scrabble. Whose fault was this fender- bender. We will tell you, coming up. We`ll also have this.



ANDERSON: Yes, it`s screaming news anchors. So what was all the fuss about? This is actually hysterical. You don`t want to miss it. It is straight ahead. Stay with us.

And now you can watch SHOWBIZ TONIGHT any time at all by downloading our podcast. Best of thing of all, it won`t cost you a penny because it`s absolutely free. You can find the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT podcast on our web site which is, of course, TONIGHT. You can also download it by going to iTunes and typing "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" into that search box. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT for Monday night is coming right back.



On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, the un-sexiest women alive? Yes. A brand new list is out that insists Sarah Jessica Parker, Madonna, even Britney Spears all un-sexy. Come on. Are you kidding me? Who came up with this stuff? It is totally offensive to women everywhere, or is it? Tonight, a fired up debate, a show biz special report, "Sexy or Sexist?"

ZELLWEGER: We`re talking about illegal activity. Just because there`s a red light, they don`t stop. And just because there`s not a parking space doesn`t mean that they don`t park their cars and get out.

HAMMER: Renee Zellweger opens up about her surprising move from Hollywood and her shocking reasons behind it, the paparazzi. You won`t believe why Renee walked away from L.A. Renee Zellweger, in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.


Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It`s 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.

ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson coming to you tonight from Hollywood. You are watching TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. Tonight we`ve got a showbiz special report, "Sexy or Sexist?" "Maxim" magazine has just come out with a shocking list, the stars they`re calling the un- sexiest women alive. You heard right.

Topping the list, "Sex and the City" star Sarah Jessica Parker. Also on the list Madonna and Britney Spears, and we are all fired up over this. Is this list sexy or is it sexist?

Joining me tonight in New York, investigative journalist Pat Lalama. Also in New York clinical psychologist Dr. Judy Kuriansky, and in Miami, author of "The Manual," Steve Santagati. Welcome it all three of you, and we start with tonight with the woman "Maxim" has dubbed the un-sexiest celebrity, I cannot believe this, Sarah Jessica Parker.

And listen to what they wrote about her. "How the hell did this Barbaro- faced broad manage to be the least - " Not funny, Steve. "The least sexy woman in a group of very un-sexy woman and still star on a show with `sex` in the title?" Steve, I hate to even ask for your assessment of this.

STEVE SANTAGATI, AUTHOR, "THE MANUAL": Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Finally someone said it. There`s a lot cuter fillies in the stable. Put it that way.



SANTAGATI: You women - hold on. Zip it for a second, ladies. You women are a bunch of hypocrites. You`re the first ones to go buy "People" magazine with the sexiest man alive and blah, blah, blah.

Come on. If you`re a coal miner, you are going to get dirty. If you are a celebrity, you are going to be judged. And you know what? Guys are the ones who determine who is sexy and who isn`t for women, and women determine who`s sexy for guys. You`re in the business, get with it.

JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: The whole point about "Sex and the City" is that they`re real women. We don`t want them to look like models and be skinny. They`re real women who are sexy, and -


PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Wait a minute, you guys. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

ANDERSON: OK, Pat. Go ahead, Pat.

LALAMA: These are the same guys I sat next to in high school and college who got dissed by women, couldn`t get a date, if you know what I mean, to save their lives, so now they`re exacting revenge on women by sitting at a third rate magazine web site.


LALAMA: Hold on. I am not finished. Sitting at a third rate magazine web site, OK?

SANTAGATI: Dalai Lama. I`ll catch you, Llama.

LALAMA: See? That`s all you can do like to get attention. Interrupting people. It`s ridiculous.

ANDERSON: OK, let Pat finish. Let her finish.

LALAMA: All right. The facts is that any woman of substance doesn`t really care what these kind of people think, some guys sitting at a web site who`s got nothing else to do but go on "Maxim," go, "Oh wow. Like almost porn. Whoa. I`m like so hot because I`m watching these chicks."

Real men - and there are plenty of them out there, find substance in women who are older, who aren`t necessarily beautiful. And let me tell you something, real women are going out with real men who have more below the belt than any of the people who sit around and make up this crap. It`s unbelievable.

SANTAGATI: Sounds like you are bitter. Sounds like you are bitter.

ANDERSON: I do want to keep this - I do want to keep this - LALAMA: I knew you would say that. I knew you would say that. Of course, she`s older and bitter.

ANDERSON: I do want to keep us focused on the poll.


ANDERSON: I want to keep us focused on the list, not the entire magazine. But I do want to keep going down this list, and the next un-sexy woman they chose to profile, singer Amy Winehouse. And here`s what they had to say about her. "Beholding her openly hemorrhaging translucent skin, rat`s nest mane and lashes that look more like surgically attached bats, we were the ones screaming, `No. No. No.`" Dr. Judy, it`s just cruel, isn`t it?

KURIANSKY: Well, it`s cruel, but it`s also as we know tongue-in-cheek in a way. And when guys do things like that, you have to really kind of take pity on them for saying that, because she`s a great singer, and she`s hot. And she`s, like, the Marilyn Manson of females, and she has the nerve to be herself. And guys, you see, from the psychological point of view, they envy women who could be like this.

SANTAGATI: You are all a bunch of hypocrites.

KURIANSKY: And when envy a woman like this, then you end up criticizing them. So that`s what`s emotionally going on for them.

SANTAGATI: I`ll tell you what, I`ll just -

ANDERSON: Steve, I`m going to give you a chance in just a second. Listen to this. Hear what "Maxim" wrote about their next un-sexy celebrity, "Grey`s Anatomy`s" Sandra Oh. They said, quote, "The only thing worse than a show about doctors is a show about sappy chick doctors we`re forced to watch or else our girlfriends won`t have sex with us. We`re holding Dr. McSkinny, with her cold bedside manner and boyish figure, personally responsible." Steve Santagati, boyish figure? Is that - she`s beautiful.

SANTAGATI: Whether you like it or not, this is how guys think. And this is how the guys that sit beside you think and your husbands and all these guys that are politically correct are thinking. They might not say it, but this is how they`re thinking.

And let me tell you, you want me to decide who is sexy for you for men? You are a hypocrite. I can fix you up with great guys that you will not think are sexy. You`re just as bad as we are. You`re worse because you are right now - you`re lying to everybody out there listening.

LALAMA: The truth -

ANDERSON: Pat, what do you say to this?

LALAMA: You know what? I`m raising two boys. I have three brothers. I had a great Italian-American dad. They all appreciate sexy women, and think the world of them, as I do. But, man, I`ll tell you, we were taught that there`s substance in all women, and I was never -

SANTAGATI: That`s not the point, Brooke. Help her.

LALAMA: Really?

ANDERSON: Listen, Steve, the point is that you don`t call these women un- sexy when beautiful can mean anything.

LALAMA: You know what? This is insane.

ANDERSON: And diversity is important. It`s offensive.

SANTAGATI: It`s not about that. You, guys, are missing the point. It`s sexy, it`s not - sexy is different than beautiful.


LALAMA: Oh, my god.

SANTAGATI: There can be an average looking girl, a heavy woman even, that`s sexy.

KURIANSKY: That, Steve, is actually brilliant today.


ANDERSON: Call to order. Madonna, even Madonna, is not exempt from "Maxim`s" wrath.

LALAMA: A husband 10 years younger than her, by the way.

ANDERSON: You`re right about that. Listen to what they say (UNINTELLIGIBLE) are saying, quote, "Combine a Paris Hilton-like pet accessorizing fetish only for dirt-poor foreign babies with a mug that looks Euro-sealed to her skull, and you`ve got Willem(ph) Dafoe with hot flashes."

You know, this is a woman in her 40s. She`s healthy. She represents a beautiful, successful woman in her 40s. Dr. Judy, they`re attacking age too here.

KURIANSKY: Age and it`s anti-Semitic. The point is men -

SANTAGATI: Anti-Semitic? Madonna`s not Jewish.

KURIANSKY: Men are threatened - she talks about the kabbalah, that`s what they were saying, and the wailing wall. So, men are threatened by women who are powerful and -

LALAMA: Absolutely. Absolutely.

KURIANSKY: For example Sandra Oh who is playing a doctor. We`ve got a woman who`s got an Oscar.

LALAMA: She`s an Oscar winner. She`s a woman of substance. You know?

KURIANSKY: I know this. There are guys who are attracted to that. They love woman who are smart and powerful. And then they get scared and then lose their erections. And then they end up criticizing them.

LALAMA: Exactly. And then they have to go, "Oh, man, like, I need boobs and cleavage. Otherwise, I`m like, oh, I`m afraid of my own self."

SANTAGATI: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Ladies, ladies. You are either sexy or you`re not. End of story. We decide.

ANDERSON: It`s not black and white like that.

LALAMA: That goes for you too. That goes for you too. That goes for you too, and there wouldn`t be a woman of substance who would waste their time.


LALAMA: I would love to talk to your girlfriend, if you have one.

KURIANSKY: Madonna is the ultimate in power, in her body, in her strength, in the business, in the way she`s reinvented herself, and that is hot and sexy.

SANTAGATI: Oh, we`re talking sexy, guys.

ANDERSON: Thank you.

SANTAGATI: Madonna had a porno book and then she went to writing children`s books. Give me a break. Nothing is sexy about that.

KURIANSKY: Exactly. You can have it all.

ANDERSON: She did go through a transformation. You are right about that.

SANTAGATI: Get real.

ANDERSON: I want to say this, let`s keep it focused on the list and not start attacking each other. OK? All right. The final hit of un-sexy celebrity was Britney Spears. They wrote, quote, "Less than five years ago Britney had a python wrapped around her well-toned torso on stage at VMAs. Since then she`s lost the ability to perform, but gained two kids, two useless ex-husbands and about 23 of Funyon pudge." Pat, is it a surprise that they would have attacked Britney in this way?

LALAMA: Well, you know. Here`s the thing. There are some merit to some of the things that are said about what happened to her. But the fact is, you know, yes, these are celebrities, and they are set up for being a target. There is no doubt about it. You are going to put yourself in that position, and you`ll have to take your lumps when you get them.

But the fact is that when you set up women that if they are not perfectly toned and perfectly beautiful, therefore, they are useless. She`s had babies and now she`s not had the stomach that she had.

This is just all part of society that perpetuates the idea that unless you are young, unless you are toned, unless you have cleavage, you don`t mean anything to us, and you have offered nothing to society. And there are not - not all men do think like that. It`s just absolutely not true.

KURIANSKY: I think the list has really helped women to reaffirm that they can be powerful like Madonna, they can be intelligent like Sandra Oh is and they can have their own life and independence ,and be however they want to be tattooed like Amy, and still feel sexy. And never mind what the men think.

SANTAGATI: Oh, my god.

ANDERSON: Steve, 10 seconds. What do you want to say?

SANTAGATI: Never mind unless you - listen. Bottom line, Britney went from the naughty girl next door to the naughty girl next door in the trailer park. She`s still sexy as far as I`m concerned. Ladies, get real. You are doing a disservice to yourself and a disservice to all women. We know what sexy is. Be sexy. End of story.

ANDERSON: Everybody is entitled to their opinions. You are right. This list was very, very unkind and offensive to me.

SANTAGATI: Truthful.

ANDERSON: Pat Lalama, Dr. Judy Kuriansky, and Steve Santagati, thank you all.

HAMMER: OK. Well, everywhere that Britney goes, whether you think she`s sexy or not, the paparazzi are sure to follow. It`s gotten way out of control, and I am among who think it`s gotten completely dangerous. In fact, tonight, another really scary run-in with the paparazzi for Paris Hilton. A shocking car crash. And now Renee Zellweger is speaking out about her frightening meetings with the photogs. In fact, she got so mad, she ditched Hollywood. We`ve got that coming up next.

ANDERSON: And A.J., Queen Latifah, Diane Keaton, and Mrs. Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes - they`re really mad about money. Get this. They`re trying to pull of what would be the most over the top bank robbery in history. Ripping off the Federal Reserve Bank. That`s straight ahead. Also this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE NEWS ANCHOR: Females, good morning at News 10 - (SCREAMING).



HAMMER: What in the world would cause a morning news team to scream like that? Perhaps the cooking segment gone wrong. Perhaps it was the weather segment. Completely bad. Well, coming up next, we`ll fill you in on what happened.


HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. It is time now for the showbiz video of the day. And, oh, there`s nothing quite like live TV.




HAMMER: That scary news moment was brought to you by "News 10, Good Morning" in Sacramento, California. Their co-workers decided to pull a little Halloween prank dressed up in costume and ran across the set.

And that`s the traffic reporter on the right, taking the highway, and flying right off camera. The meteorologists letting out that blood curdling scream on the left. I guess the forecast was cloudy with a good chance of fright. That is tonight`s showbiz video of the day. By the way, Brooke, boo!

ANDERSON: Oh, you`re so scary, A.J. All right. Well, tonight, I can tell you that Paris Hilton was in another frightening car accident, sort of. But hey, at least this time she wasn`t driving. reports that Paris`s Cadillac Escalade(ph) was smashed by a paparazzo, when the guy tried to pull in front of Paris` chauffeured SUV, to snap a picture of her in L.A.


PARIS HILTON`S DRIVER: And flying by us so he could put his car in park and get his shots, run out and take pictures. Well, as he hops out, he leaves it in reverse trying to be too quick. The car is backing up into me in reverse as my client is getting out of the car. And basically, it was either me risking hurting my client, which I wasn`t willing to do, of course, and - or taking the hit. So we took the hit and now it`s all about insurance.


ANDERSON: Now, Paris didn`t get hurt, but one of her bodyguards complained of neck pain. We reached out to Paris` people. They had nothing to say.

HAMMER: Tonight, Oscar winner, Renee Zellweger, has a lot to say about the paparazzi. Let me tell you, she is totally fed up with them. In fact, things got so bad she left Hollywood and moved clear across the country to New York. When I sat down with Renee to chat about her fantastic new movie with Jerry Seinfeld, "Bee Movie," she just let loose about how bad the paparazzi have become. And wait until you hear what she says about Britney Spears becoming a target of the tabloid. It`s really surprising. Watch this.


ZELLWEGER: Most people don`t understand that you didn`t just run into Britney Spears that day and get your picture. She didn`t just ask for it because she went to the place where they`re all going to be. They hop on her back, and then when she wakes in the morning or before, through her windows, or over her fence or they`re already in her yard. And then they don`t stop. They don`t stop all day, every single moment of the day is documented and for sale.

HAMMER: There`s that side of it, but then it`s interesting you mention Britney. We see her at times courting the paparazzi. And, you know, there are those who say certainly, you know, if you are a star, it comes with the territory.

ZELLWEGER: But it`s different now. It`s different now. It`s changed. When I started, it was very different. I mean, it was pre-media influx. It was - I mean, there were maybe three periodicals that, you know, look for that sort of material and sent it out there, and it was called tabloid journalism. Not news. It was called tabloid.

And we knew that it was full of unsubstantiated information and we knew to discredit it. But that line has become very ambiguous. When you have reputed - highly, well-respected members of the news media doing Britney watch, something is wrong. Something is wrong.

It`s different, and I have a lot of empathy for any young person who is entering into this business now because they`re very different jobs. And I get caught and I get pictures taken, and, you know, I live with it, and I understand that it`s a part of it. No, I don`t court it, and I make very conscious decisions about places that I know that I cannot go. I haven`t driven down Robertson Boulevard in Los Angeles in probably a decade.

HAMMER: I just am curious, though, if you think then that that aspect of the business is adding to the pressure, which is what`s making it so difficult for the young stars to stay out of trouble?

ZELLWEGER: No. We`re not talking about the business of being an actor or a person in entertainment. We`re talking about illegal activity. Just because there`s a red light, they don`t stop. And just because there`s not a parking space doesn`t mean that they don`t park their cars and get out. We`re talking about a young girl who has had very limited experiences outside of being on a professional schedule from the time of 12 years old.

I went to college. I paid my way through school. I was an adult who had been taking care of herself for quite a few years before I moved to Los Angeles where, you know, they`re kind of ever-present in your life. And it`s still hard, you know? It`s still hard. I dare - you know, they leap out, you know, the consideration of the biological experience of being hunted. It`s a frightening prospect. It`s really scary. I mean, think about it.

When suddenly, one person takes your picture, you go, oh, OK. It`s kind of uncomfortable, but just relentlessly, like - you know, you can`t say no, you can`t say no. Whatever they want to take from you that day, they will, and they can. And there`s no protection for someone like her, you know. Too bad. Too bad. Well, because she made a lot of records that people liked a lot, she deserves to be beaten up?

Because it feels kind of like that, kind of like you are being beaten up, like you`re being hit by these guys who are going it take what they want because they`re going to make a lot of money for taking what they want from that young girl.


HAMMER: I think she just said it so well. Now I also asked Renee how she got the part in Jerry Seinfeld`s new animated movie, "Bee Movie." Renee plays Vanessa Bloom, a florist in the film, and Jerry plays, what else, a bee. A really cute movie. Even cuter was the way that Jerry Seinfeld went about getting Renee to sign up for the role.


ZELLWEGER: I don`t know how it happened really. I`ve been asked that a lot, and I don`t recall ever actually having the conversation. I just remember Jerry started to show up everywhere. Suddenly he was like, "Oh, hey."

HAMMER: This must be happening.

ZELLWEGER: "How is it going?" I didn`t catch on. He was next to me at the charity event. And next to me at some premiere. He was next to me in the screening. He is camping in the front yard.

HAMMER: Anything about your yard, Renee?

ZELLWEGER: "Hi, Renee. Oh, Renee, hi." I didn`t get it. It was this interesting professional courtship, and here we are.


HAMMER: I love this movie. It`s called "Bee Movie", and it buzzes into theaters everywhere this Friday.

ANDERSON: Mrs. Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes is back with her first big film since getting married. And SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has your first look. That`s coming up next SHOWBIZ TONIGHT for this Monday night is headed straight back. Stay with us.


ANDERSON: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Hey, tonight, I`ve got your first look at a ridiculously daring bank robbery. Queen Latifah and Diane Keaton and Mrs. Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, try to pull off the unthinkable, looting one of the best guarded places on earth, the Federal Reserve Bank. Have they gone mad? Actually, yes. Here`s "Mad Money."


MALE VOICE OVER: In the most secure bank in the United States, three ordinary women are about to dream up one extraordinary plan.

QUEEN LATIFAH, ACTRESS: Nobody, not once, has ever beaten the system in like 100 years. So what are you, some kind of like super genius?


MALE VOICE OVER: One has the motive.

KEATON: They`re plenty of worn out. It`s going to be shredded so, what do we do? We take some and spend it. It`s like recycling.


MALE VOICE OVER: One has the means.

LATIFAH: This thing goes bad, I`m going kill you. You scared of me?


MALE VOICE OVER: One has the moves.

LATIFAH: Somebody is definitely peeing in her cup.

KATIE HOLMES, ACTRESS: We need a go code.

KEATON: How about something like this?

HOLMES: Works for me.


HOLMES: When do we go?

MALE VOICE OVER: This January - Taking it was easy.

LATIFAH: Victoria never had this kind of secret.

MALE VOICE OVER: But getting away with it.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Let`s see (UNINTELLIGIBLE) isn`t very hard to return their breasts. We need to talk.

MALE VOICE OVER: Will be harder than they ever imaged.

KEATON: He likes me.

LATIFAH: Oh, no. Do you know what it is when someone trades sex for money?

HOLMES: Advertising.

KEATON: A good percentage of marriages. Oh, my god.

LATIFAH: Keep the change.

MALE VOICE OVER: From the creator of "Thelma and Louise".

LATIFAH: Don`t send the money.

MALE VOICE OVER: Diane Keaton.

KEATON: How much?


KEATON: I`ll take it.

MALE VOICE OVER: Queen Latifah.

LATIFAH: You spent some money.

KEATON: It`s nothing.


KEATON: Wait. Oh!

MALE VOICE OVER: Katie Holmes.

LATIFAH: Go slow and be smart.

HOLMES: I hate being smart.


KEATON: It belongs to my financial security.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: How about maximum security?

KEATON: You know what? You`ve got to lighten up or I`m going to have you whacked.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: When did you start talking like that?


ANDERSON: It looks very funny. "Mad Money" is scheduled to hit theaters this January. Great cast.

HAMMER: It is a great cast. That is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

ANDERSON: Have a great night, everybody. Thanks for watching. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. Glenn beck coming up next that`s right after the latest headlines from "CNN HEADLINE NEWS."