Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Sanchez Discusses Iraq Plan; Airport Death; Living Biblically; Will He Run?
Aired October 13, 2007 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with a remarkably blunt assessment of the war in Iraq from one of the men who waged it. Retired Three-Star General Ricardo Sanchez commanded the war effort in Iraq from June of 2003 to June of 2004. A lot happened on his watch and he took a lot of heat for it.
The insurgency began. Abu Ghraib became a global scandal. His leadership was questioned. Today, he spoke out, as Vice President Cheney might say, big time.
He said -- and I quote -- "The administration, Congress, especially the Department of State, must shoulder the responsibility for this catastrophic failure." He called the war plan catastrophically flawed and unrealistically optimistic. He slammed the country's -- quote -- "incompetent strategic leadership." In short, he called the war -- quote -- "a nightmare with no end in sight."
And that's not all he said as cameras for NBC News were rolling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIEUTENANT GENERAL RICARDO SANCHEZ, FORMER U.S. COMMANDER IN IRAQ: Who will demand accountability for the failure of our national political leadership involved in the management of this war? They have unquestionably been derelict in the performance of their duty.
In my profession, these types of leaders would immediately be relieved or court-martialed.
The best we can do with this flawed approach is stave off defeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: No immediate reaction from the White House, but a spokeswoman for the National Security Council did issue the following non-statement: "We appreciate his service to the country. As General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker said, there's more work to be done, but progress is being made in Iraq. And that's what we're focused on now."
That's their statement.
Coming from a longtime critic of the war, these statements would not be news. Coming from the man who oversaw the war, they are simply stunning. CNN's Nic Robertson is in Baghdad with us tonight. And in Washington, on the military, political angle, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
Jamie, has this ever occurred in recent military history, that a retired general of this stature calls his former political bosses, the leader of this country -- the leaders of this country, derelict in their duty. I mean, he said, if they were military, they would have been court-martialed.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is quite stunning for him.
But don't forget it's not just an indictment of the war. But, also, Rick Sanchez is protecting his own reputation here. He's faulted for a lot of what happened. As you said, after he took over, the insurgency started. He took over like a month after victory was declared in Iraq or mission accomplished was declared.
And he oversaw that area where it became stunningly obvious that things were going to be a lot more difficult. So, in some sense, he is also talking about his own reputation.
COOPER: Is -- there's also reports that he's, you know, trying to write a book. Does that play a role in this? Does he have a book? Is this some sort of promotional campaign?
MCINTYRE: Well, you know, any time we hear these generals briefing, when they're briefing at the Pentagon or we're talking to them in the field, we are always wondering how free they are to tell us what they really think.
If they think, for instance, that they are overseeing a disaster, they are just not free to say that. So, it's always very interesting to hear what they say after the fact. I mean, just witness, for instance, General Clark's book after Kosovo about really -- what really went on there.
So, we are always wondering about that. So, that's not all that unusual. But, you know, one has to wonder why he didn't say anything before this. And he sat in a three-star position in Europe, essentially waiting to serve enough time in that grade to retire at the three-star rank, knowing he couldn't be confirmed for a fourth star, and really didn't say anything while he was still in uniform.
COOPER: I want to ask you more about that.
Nic, General Sanchez said Iraq is a nightmare with no end in sight. He described the surge as a desperate move that won't achieve long-term stability. Has General Petraeus responded to this?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not that we have heard here so far, Anderson.
It's come out really very late at night. And there's been no response from the military that we have heard. I must say, from being out in the field talking to senior and mid-level commanders over the past few years, lieutenant colonels, majors, colonels, people of that rank, they privately -- and this is very privately and only some of them in unguarded moments -- will say, we really feel that we have been essentially dumped on by the politicians, given an impossible task to achieve -- Anderson.
COOPER: Jamie, talking about what he said and didn't say when he was a commander, why didn't he either speak out or resign, if he felt this way? I have gone through a couple of old interviews with him. And when he was asked right after he left command, but was still in the military, about, were there enough troops, he said, you know, that's something that is going to be debated for decades. And I'm not sure, having more forces, that we really could have done anything with more forces than we had.
I mean, just about everyone now seems to admit that, even back then, they all knew they needed more forces.
MCINTYRE: Well, you know, at the risk of incurring General Sanchez's wrath, because part of -- about half of what he said today in this forum, which was a gathering of military editors and reporters, was basically blasting the news media for lack of nuance, lack of context, not giving people a fair shake, himself included.
So, at the risk of that, I would just tell you that he's in a situation where he has a limit to what he can say when he's in uniform. But if he really does feel that there was a catastrophic failure, it's really incumbent on senior military officers to take that step, to speak out and step down.
You lose a lot of the credibility if you wait until years afterwards to speak up and say, hey, in retrospect, I think we made a big mistake.
COOPER: Nic, I mean, I -- I -- maybe I'm overreacting, but I just find it remarkable that he said that the leaders have been derelict in their duty and in other circumstances would have been court-martialed.
I mean, that's an extraordinary statement for the guy who was running the war.
ROBERTSON: It is an extraordinary statement. And it's something that is sort of likely to undermine the confidence of soldiers here, some of them who really feel that this is a very difficult situation they are in, that they do wonder about the greater political achievements, again, talking about the regular soldiers, and that, essentially, they are fighting for their own survival and that of the troops either side of them -- Anderson.
COOPER: Nic, also, there -- this, at the same time, comes at -- at -- I mean, where are casualty levels at this point? I had read a report recently they are actually down, civilian and military.
ROBERTSON: They are. They have been down for the past few months. And this -- these comments do come at a time when it seems as if there is some positive light in Iraq. Look at Al Anbar Province in the west of the country, tribal militias working with U.S. troops. This is new. This has brought stability. It's a model that is being applied north and south of Baghdad.
The south of the country, the British in Basra have done a deal with the militias there. Violence has gone down in the south of the country. The death tolls are down. So, there are figures that point to successes.
But talk to some Iraqis here and you say, hey, Baghdad is safer, and they say, is it really? Last year, I could cross the city. Now I can't. It's safer because I don't leave my house and don't move around the city.
There's a sense here that problems are being stored up for the future, that this sort of civil war, a clash of the Sunnis and Shias, could still happen, that positions are being entrenched and embedded and built upon -- Anderson.
COOPER: Nic Robertson, Jamie McIntyre.
Jamie, did you have something to say?
MCINTYRE: Just one quick point to add.
General Sanchez does say that he believes that -- he concedes that there's progress, but he says it's going to be a wasted effort, just like the past wasted effort.
But, at the same time, he also says the U.S. can't leave Iraq. He says that would be a disaster. And what he's calling for in these remarks he gave today was for the entire nation to have a consensus on a strategy for success. And he says that just hasn't happened.
COOPER: He also says that this government has not done a good job of mobilizing the rest of the government, and not just the military. They have relied solely on the military to really fight the war. They really have not utilized the rest of the government, talking about the State Department and other aspects.
No doubt we are going to be talking about this a lot in the days to come.
Jamie McIntyre, Nic Robertson, appreciate it.
Tonight, for the first time, a member of the Phoenix Police Department is sitting down one on one on national TV to answer questions about the death of Carol Anne Gotbaum. Not a household name, simply a woman with problems on her way to rehab, changing planes in Phoenix.
That is her in the video which has now probably been seen around the world. She ended up dead in handcuffs and shackles in a police holding cell. And now the country knows her name and her story. They know her anguish, the anguish of her husband Noah's voice on the phone pleading with authorities to handle his wife gently. He didn't know at the time what they did. And he hadn't been told that she was already dead.
In a moment, we will ask police Sergeant Andy Hill about all of it.
But first, the latest developments in the case and more on who Carol Anne Gotbaum was. Tonight's report from CNN's Alina Cho.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To the outside world, Carol Gotbaum's life was picture-perfect -- a loving husband, three beautiful children, part of a prominent New York family.
Behind the smile, Carol was fighting demons even few in her family knew about -- deep depression, alcoholism, and a series of tragedies -- the death of her sister, mother and, most recently, her beloved father.
DOUG MULLER, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF CAROL ANNE GOTBAUM: Carol was emotionally and just totally distraught and broken.
CHO: Doug Muller is Carol Gotbaum's brother-in-law.
MULLER: And I think losing her dad really was just one of those things that she couldn't really come to terms with. And I think that that almost set the whole thing off.
CHO: What didn't help, her family says, was living in New York, which never felt like home.
Carol was born and raised in South Africa, moved to London to fulfill her dream as a top buyer at Harrods. It was there she met Noah at the gym.
MULLER: He must have made an impression on her.
CHO (on camera): Well, in fact, you believe it was love at first sight.
MULLER: I think it could have been, yes. I think she knew.
CHO (voice-over): They were married in 1995. In his eulogy, Noah spoke of Carol's devotion as a mother, first to Ella.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NOAH GOTBAUM, HUSBAND OF CAROL ANNE GOTBAUM: Mommy held you from morning until night.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GOTBAUM: Your inquisitive nature, your devilish sense of humor.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CHO: And their youngest, Tobias.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GOTBAUM: She would switch her baby pictures for Tobias', and we couldn't tell the difference.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CHO: He then spoke of their love.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GOTBAUM: Her thoughts were always on whether I was happy and well cared for and we were. I did feel the glow of her love every day.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CHO: But she was struggling. Last November, Noah found Carol passed out drunk in their townhouse. She was rushed by ambulance to the hospital. The next day, she told her mother-in-law, I'm ashamed.
So, Carol sought help, first at Four Winds, a psychiatric hospital in Upstate New York. When that didn't work, she ultimately decided to seek inpatient therapy at Cottonwood, an alcohol treatment center in Tucson, Arizona, a reluctant choice.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GOTBAUM: And that's one reason why mommy took so long to get help for herself. She just couldn't stand being away from you all.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MULLER: She said that she was scared. She was really fearful, that she needed to do this. She had to do this for her children. She had to did this for Noah.
CHO: Carol never made it to Cottonwood. After missing the connection in Phoenix that would take her there, the 45-year-old mother of three flew into a rage, something friends and family say was wholly unlike her. Soon, she was in handcuffs and shackles. She died alone in a holding cell. How is still a mystery.
Her family is in shock.
MULLER: I think the manner in which she was treated was inhumane. You know, she was shackled like a criminal.
CHO (on camera): When you see that surveillance video, what goes through your mind?
MULLER: What I think is that Carol must have been so desperate, so desperate. And, in my heart, what I believe is that she was -- it was a cry for help.
CHO (voice-over): A cry Noah says was never heard.
CHO (on camera): And, just in the past couple of days, we have been in touch with Noah Gotbaum via e-mail. He tells us -- and I'm using his words now -- that he's shattered, exhausted, and desperately sad. He added that what few resources he does have right now, Anderson, need to be focused on the children.
COOPER: Well, they certainly do.
You know, there's so much interest in this story. We have been getting a lot of e-mails from viewers asking, why was she allowed to travel alone? I mean, if her family knew she was in distress, why allow her to travel?
CHO: And I have been asked that question a lot.
You know, there's no real easy answer. But, by all accounts, in terms of what we're hearing from family members, is -- and you heard this in the piece -- she was a devoted mother, in fact, so devoted that she delayed seeking treatment, seeking therapy.
When she finally made the decision to go away to Tucson for therapy, she and Noah, according to family members, decided that she would travel alone, so that the children wouldn't feel abandoned.
Now, remember, she was supposed to take a direct flight all along to Tucson. It was only on the day of the flight that she decided she wanted to take her kids to school. She missed the flight, had to rebook. There was no direct flight. And that's how she ended up in Phoenix.
COOPER: And, of course, she died at that airport in police custody.
Last night, you reported that the police didn't call the family. It was friends of the Gotbaums who notified Noah Gotbaum that she had died. There's more to the story.
CHO: That's right. It is true -- and I want to be clear -- it is true that it was the close friends of the Gotbaums who ultimately were summoned to the airport, sent to the airport by Noah Gotbaum.
They were the ones who actually delivered the news. But they did so because they told police they preferred to do it that way. They said: Listen, we're close friends. We know him well. We knew her well. We want to be the ones to tell him.
And, ultimately, what they did was, they set up a conference call. Police were actually on the line, but it was those friends who told Noah what happened. Of course, there's no good way of hearing that sort of news, but they believed it would be better coming from friends.
COOPER: All right.
Alina Cho, appreciate it. Thanks, Alina.
CHO: You bet.
COOPER: Sergeant Andy Hill is a spokesman for the Phoenix Police Department. He has talked with the media before about the case, but this is his first time anywhere answering questions about it one on one.
We are pleased he could join us tonight.
Sergeant, thanks for being with us.
We just heard the Gotbaums' brother-in-law saying that he thinks she was treated inhumanely. He took issues with her being shackled like a criminal, he said.
How do you respond to that?
SERGEANT ANDY HILL, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, good evening, Anderson.
And I -- first of all, we want to express our condolences to the family, to the Gotbaum family. Obviously, this was a tragedy.
And, of course, anyone who isn't used to being in contact with law enforcement would certainly not expect what would have happened. When someone is arrested, we have a responsibility to arrest those people as safely as possible. And I think the surveillance videotape indicates that we went through those steps.
So, we certainly understand the grief of the family and their expressions of wanting to know what happened. But, apparently, as we have all seen, according to that surveillance tape, it indicates what your experts have even called a normal arrest situation.
COOPER: There was one eyewitness I talked to who saw the arrest happening. And his perception was that the police didn't try to talk her down, so to speak, or kind of calm her down before getting her down on the ground and -- and handcuffing her.
A. HILL: Well, of course, there were many witnesses that were interviewed, Anderson. Almost all of the witnesses that we have been in touch with, including those TSA personnel that contacted her first, and tried to calm her down, and then were subsequently watched by the officers as they slowly approached, there was no calming her down.
She was inconsolable. She was told she under arrest. She resisted. At first, she pulled away. Then she fell to the ground. The officers actually brought her down easier. And then she continued to resist.
And the surveillance tape indicates that. And, of course, in that process, if someone is resisting being arrested, which we understand people do, they are going to get arrested, and it's going to take some force to do that.
And, in our continuum of force, that any expert would say the minimum was used. There was no pepper spray and no Taser used. It was really as basically as controlled as we could do at that time, I think.
COOPER: At this point, do you know how she died in that -- in that cell?
A. HILL: No. And that's the great question, Anderson. Nobody was in there with her.
We, according to policy, brought her down to the holding room. She was searched. She was resisting that. She was shackled with that chain and those handcuffs, in addition to her handcuffs. And, at that time, officers knew nothing about her. They didn't know that she had any personal issues that might be a threat to herself or others.
There was no information as to who she was particularly. We didn't know about any of her past. So, those officers did what they were doing at the time based on observation and experience. So, at that time, they went ahead and -- and they did leave her in that room.
And, according to policy, they checked on her within the timeframe. And, of course, they discovered her having been unconscious for some time, and went in and -- and did what they could to save her life.
COOPER: You know, I mean, it's been the topic of a lot of discussion. How does a woman with, you know, hands cuffed behind her back, and then attached to a 16-inch chain, how does she end up strangled to death?
Have you seen that happen before?
A. HILL: You know, we are all very concerned, because we had not seen that before in our experience. It was a unique situation.
And that's why it's so important to have an independent authority, like the Maricopa County medical examiner, that does the autopsy, that will come forth with their findings. We all await that. We all want to know the answers to those questions, as well as the family. And we want to do that with respect for the family in this process.
And it's a difficult situation. An in-custody death is a tragedy. And those officers that worked on her to try to save her life did everything they could. When they were doing mouth to mouth, and Ms. Gotbaum vomited into the officer's mouth, he continued to spit out and continued to do the mouth to mouth. He did not know who she was, other than she was someone in distress and he wanted to save her life.
It was tough for those officers, too. And it's a tragedy all around.
COOPER: The bruises found on her body, you say that's from attempts to revive her?
A. HILL: You know, we don't know what those are from. We are going to have to let the M.E. determine that.
But, apparently, as you saw, she was arrested. Officers did put their hands on her. She was handcuffed. When she was unconscious, they did life-saving techniques, which involved taking her out and taking those shackles off and doing CPR.
So, we will let the M.E. determine all that. And, as each step of the way is unveiled, and we know more facts, and public records requests are made, as they have been, we will reveal it as it goes along.
COOPER: Sergeant Andy Hill, we appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Thank you, sir.
A. HILL: Thank you, sir.
COOPER: Carol Gotbaum was not the first person to die in police custody, though arrest-related deaths are rare. Here's the "Raw Data."
A new report from the Justice Department says, in nearly 40 million arrests over a three-year period, only 2,002 suspects died in police custody. Fifty-five percent were killed by officers in a scuffle or an attempt to flee. Thirteen percent died from drugs or alcohol. Twelve percent committed suicide. And 7 percent died from an accidental injury. The rest succumbed to illnesses, natural causes, or unknown factors.
Unlike Carol Anne Gotbaum, Anna Nicole Smith lived for and died in the spotlight, and it's not over yet, not by a long shot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER (voice-over): Deputies, warrants, drugs, and Anna Nicole. She's dead, but new developments are bringing her story back to life. We will bring you the latest.
Later, it's the song of the South. He's a son of the South. But wait until you hear what a congressman from Mississippi said about NASCAR fans. Them's fighting words in "Raw Politics" -- only on 360.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Surprising new developments tonight in the death of Anna Nicole Smith. A lethal cocktail of prescription drugs killed her. That, we know. It was an accident, according to the medical examiner. But was it also negligence or perhaps even a crime? Those questions are back and hotter than ever because, today in Los Angeles, in Orange County, authorities executed search warrants on the homes and businesses of Anna Nicole's doctors.
More on the story from CNN's Randi Kaye.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her death was ruled an accidental drug overdose, but that is not the end of the Anna Nicole Smith story.
Today, California sheriffs served eight search warrants on the offices, homes and billing centers of two doctors who treated the former "Playboy" centerfold and may have prescribed some of the drugs that went into the deadly cocktail that killed her.
JERRY BROWN (D), CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: The investigation started when I reviewed the fact that all these different dangerous and -- drugs and controlled substances were a part of the death of Anna Nicole Smith, and I learned that these were California doctors and California prescriptions.
KAYE (on camera): The properties raided belonged to two doctors, Sandeep Kapoor, who is known to have prescribed methadone for Smith, and Smith's psychiatrist, Khristine Eroshevich, who was traveling in Florida with the doomed actress when she died.
(voice-over): It's no secret that Smith abused drugs. These photos from inside her refrigerator, obtained by the Web site TMZ.com, show a shelf full of prescription drugs. And this document shows a shipment of potentially dangerous narcotics sent to the actress while she was pregnant.
And remember this videotape, a clearly impaired, rambling Smith wearing clown makeup? Just small chapters in the life of the troubled celebrity, which seemed to spiral downward in recent years.
There was the bitter battle over the estate of her late husband, billionaire oilman, J. Howard Marshall, who was 89 when they married. But it was tragic death of her 20-year-old son, Daniel, also from a drug overdose, just five months before her own death that, according to her former manager and partner, Howard K. Stern, seemed to send her over the edge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH'S PARTNER AND ATTORNEY: In my heart, I believe that Anna could not survive the death of her son. She was tormented, absolutely tormented, by the death of her son.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KAYE: Many of the prescriptions for drugs found in Smith's possession were actually written for Stern. He was traveling with Smith in Florida when she died. He was there when her son, Daniel, died. And he was at the home of Dr. Khristine Eroshevich when it was raided. His attorneys said Stern was there to pick up his dogs.
Our calls to the doctors' attorneys were not returned. California's attorney general said, investigators have looked at over 100,000 documents, computer images, patient profiles, and pharmacy logs. He wouldn't say whether criminal charges would be filed or whether Smith's body would be exhumed. But he did say, the investigation is far from over.
BROWN: We do know, from the public record, that there's someone who is dead. And her body, upon investigation, is full of controlled substances and combinations of drugs that turned out to be lethal.
Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
COOPER: Again, lethal, but was a crime committed?
Up next, we are going to talk to forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht and Court TV anchor Jami Floyd about what investigators are looking for inside the doctors' homes and offices, plus the possible criminal charges that could come next.
Also ahead tonight, a strange twist in that alleged plot against a Pennsylvania high school, why the suspect's mom was arrested -- when 360 continues.
COOPER: Anna Nicole Smith, her death, accidental, from a lethal combination of drugs, but, today, investigators in California swooped down on the homes and businesses of her doctors.
California Attorney General Jerry Brown told reporters, authorities are looking at the prescription practices of Smith's doctors and the pharmacies she used.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it seems like you're heading down a road where someone could be charged with murder or homicide.
BROWN: Well, you don't go to a judge and get a search warrant for somebody's home unless you think some rather serious crime has been committed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, was Anna Nicole's death a crime?
Forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht did the independent autopsy on Anna Nicole's son, Daniel. He joins me now, along with Jami Floyd, Court TV anchor and former defense attorney.
Dr. Wecht, the notion that, I mean, a doctor would be charged for prescribing prescriptions, I mean, a patient can abuse prescriptions. It doesn't necessarily mean the doctor is culpable.
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Anderson, the second leading cause of accidental death in America is acute combined drug toxicity. Twenty-five to 33 percent of the more than 300 autopsies I do every year are due to exactly that.
Now, I have no brief for doctors who over prescribe. And I will predict right now that there are going to be criminal charges very likely having to do maybe with over prescribing, overstocking, et cetera.
I will also predict there's not going to be homicide charges. One, the death occurred in Florida. It's not California's jurisdiction. Number two, the medical examiner called it an accidental death, and so did the police chief. Number three, about a dozen consultants signed onto that medical examiner's report.
So, you are going to have a trial, a homicide, and you are going to bring in these people, who say that it was an accidental death. Who are going to be your experts who are going to -- who are going to say that it's a homicide?
WECHT: And because this is a celebrity, fine, in a way we know that celebrities sometimes help us to make points and sometimes it's for the better of society.
But I want to see former governor, and now attorney general Jerry Brown, I want him to go after the thousands of people who die in California every year -- their physicians who are prescribing and over prescribing.
Why -- and I have no brief for these particular doctors, although I will point out Dr. Eroshevich was with Anna Nicole. A very good physician, a very close friend, taking care of her.
Anna Nicole Smith was a longtime major drug abuser. It is difficult, extremely difficult, to control these people.
WECHT: And then when you get to the toxicology test, and we don't have time, I know, it gets a little technical. Let me tell you, the chloral hydrate was at the low lethal level. What pushed her over was a little bit of Klonopin, a little bit of Valium, a little bit of Ativan, a little bit of Benadryl, and altogether, and that's how these people tragically, die. How do you control that?
COOPER: Jami, do you agree -- do you agree with Dr. Wecht that there may be charges, but it's not going to be homicide? JAMI FLOYD, "COURT TV" ANCHOR: Yes. I rarely disagree with Dr. Wecht. And we talked about this case before. I think he's right. There's not a homicide finding. So I don't know how you leapfrog over the medical examiner's report.
It's not a California jurisdiction, but as Dr. Wecht knows even better than I, there is a controlled substances act federally and in the state of California. And that's very possibly a place where this attorney general could charge.
And I want to say, I know former governor, now Attorney General Brown, and I'm with Dr. Wecht. Let's go after all of those who abuse and over prescribe prescriptions. But I think he's...
COOPER: It does seem...
FLOYD: I think he's doing the right thing.
COOPER: It certainly does seem, though, that celebrities, especially in a place like California, can basically get whatever medications they want.
FLOYD: That's right.
COOPER: And, I mean, the fact that this psychiatrist is traveling with Anna Nicole Smith, and now Howard K. Stern is storing his dogs at her house. And he just happens to be there when the police come in...
FLOYD: A strange confluence of events.
COOPER: ... that just seems odd to me. I mean, for a psychiatrist to be hanging out with a patient, that just rubs me the wrong way.
FLOYD: Well, and I'll tell what you else -- when a search warrant is coming down, you very often have a head's up. And so I'm not entirely surprised that he would be there.
Look, I think he's been vilified throughout, but I also think that we need to get to the bottom of why there were 11 drugs in this woman's system, nine in the system of her son. Even if it's not a homicide as a matter of law or as a matter of medicine, something went terribly wrong here.
Six hundred pills in her possession or that of Howard K. Stern. A lot of these were written to him. And hundreds of those missing? Something is wrong. And it should be -- it should be looked into, celebrity or not.
COOPER: And Dr. Wecht, in her son's case, and you did the independent autopsy, it was -- it was, again, an overuse of prescription drugs.
WECHT: Well, yes, there were three drugs there. Methadone was the principal drug and then there was Lexapro and Zoloft. And so that's somewhat more specific. There was no methadone in Anna Nicole Smith.
I just want to say, I heard a lot of comment about the 600 pills, et cetera, et cetera. All of that is fine. It may have to do with some other criminal investigation.
But when it comes to Anna Nicole Smith's death, you look at the toxicological analyses in that case. And there are no 600 pills manifested in the toxicological data in Anna Nicole Smith.
FLOYD: No, doctor. But, doctor, that would...
WECHT: Things are being -- being bunched together here.
FLOYD: I'm not bunching it together. I think, in fact, the attorney general is. There is a possibility of over prescription.
FLOYD: Even if it doesn't lead to an investigation of a homicide. And that may be chargeable, as well.
WECHT: And let's do it across the board.
FLOYD: I agree.
WECHT: I mean this. I'm not being facetious. The length and breadth of America. Let's crack down on doctors who over prescribe and let's have more malpractice actions against doctors who bring about morbidity and mortality, because they fail to find out that their patients have gotten other drugs that are psychotropic to the central nervous system and the present.
FLOYD: And Dr. Wecht, I second -- can second you? Can I second you?
WECHT: Let's do it all. And let's not just zero in on Anna Nicole because she's a celebrity.
FLOYD: Can I second you in one way? Let's use Anna Nicole Smith as an example. Prescription drug abuse is the number two cause of drug abuse in this country. And it is the fastest rising form of drug abuse for young people. So this is the example. This can be the result.
COOPER: Jamie Floyd, Dr. Cyril Wecht, interesting discussion. Thank you. Appreciate it.
Erica Hill joins us with a 360 bulletin -- Erica. ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we begin in Pennsylvania where the mother of a 14-year-old boy was arrested today for buying her son several guns and bomb making equipment. Her son was arrested earlier this week after cops found guns, knives and homemade grenades in his bedroom. Police said the home-schooled boy might have been planning an attack at a high school.
In Cleveland, Ohio, the uncle of school shooter Asa Coon says his nephew was upset with teachers because they wouldn't listen to his side of the story regarding that fight he had on Monday. The 14-year- old was suspended the same day, due to the fight. On Wednesday he wounded two teachers and two students before shooting himself to death.
In Panama City, Florida, a jury acquits eight former boot camp workers of manslaughter in the death of a 14-year-old boy. In January of 2006, the victim was videotaped being punched and kicked. He later died at a hospital.
And the mother of an 11-year-old girl filing suit against Delta Airlines. She claims her daughter was sexually molested by a man on a flight. The girl was flying by herself last January from San Diego to Atlanta.
CNN, though, has not been able to confirm the girl's mother actually reported those allegations to police. Delta says it is now looking into the claim -- Anderson.
COOPER: Bizarre story.
HILL: It's really bizarre. And scary if it turns out to be true.
On now to "What Were They Thinking" tonight. In this case, it is what was he thinking? Oh, my. Tourists got an eyeful.
COOPER: Oh, no!
HILL: Yes. In your city there of New York and Times Square. Never a dull moment. If it's not the naked cowboy, it's the naked tourist. Taking a stroll around the crossroads of the world.
The pictures from "The New York Post" also show the buff walker at one point checking messages to see if anybody is calling in. "See me naked?"
COOPER: Where was he hiding that cell phone, by the way? Where was he carrying that cell phone?
HILL: That's an excellent question. I think it -- well, anyway. "The Full Monty" moment ended, though. Cops took him into custody.
According to "The Post" he was then taken to a psychiatric hospital for evaluation. Not sure why. Yes. We didn't have a picture of this next one, by the way, and you're probably grateful. But according to the "Post," at one point he jumped up and down on top of a counter inside a steak house. There's one way to kill your appetite.
COOPER: Beefsteak Charlie's. I'm sure the lunchtime crowd really enjoyed that.
HILL: Yes. I'm sure they did.
COOPER: That will help with the appetite.
COOPER: Love the surf and turf.
Coming up tonight, a Nobel caper for Al Gore -- or capper, we should say, for Al Gore's amazing year. Or caper, I guess, depending how you look at it.
Also tonight, we'll take you to the intersection of NASCAR and "Raw Politics." That's next.
COOPER: On the political front, we've been focusing heavily on the 2008 presidential race, but some of the top players in Hollywood are looking back to 2004, and they're talking about making a movie.
CNN's Tom Foreman has the story and more in tonight's "Raw Politics."
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Three billion people in the world live on less than $2 a day. And that's how much Americans are going to spend on elections next year. Two dollars? No -- $3 billion.
(voice-over) The avalanche of campaign ads is only going to get worse this winter. Brace yourself.
The newest estimate on campaign spending shows it will hit a record high. Nearly double what it was in the last presidential election cycle. Those numbers drummed up for CNN by the campaign media analyst group.
EVAN TRACEY, TNS MEDIA INTELLIGENCE: This is everything from dog catcher to president of the United States to issue groups.
FOREMAN: Dog catcher? That's a lot of Chihuahuas.
It's celebration time on the trail. Three endorsements. Former vice president Walter Mondale likes the Hill. So does Georgia congressman John Lewis.
Tommy Thompson wants Rudy Giuliani for the GOP nominee. What do all three have in common? Outside the campaigns, no one cares.
On the red carpet. Leo DiCaprio and George Clooney are making a movie about Howard Dean's failed presidential campaign. Working titles, "Rebel Without a White House," "The Dem Ultimatum" or maybe "Veepless in Vermont."
And our "Raw Politics" chop of the week. NASCAR claims 75 million fans, but apparently Mississippi Democrat Benny Thompson not among them. The congressman suggested his staff get immunized against disease before attending a NASCAR race to research health issues in crowds.
(on camera): Republicans, of course, are screaming over the implied insult to race fans. What is it? Oh, my gosh! It's the Nobel prize for snarky political reporting. I'm just so honored -- Anderson.
COOPER: No one deserves it more, Tom.
It's time for you to take part in the "Raw Politics" on the campaign. Our next YouTube debate is November 28. Mark it down. Head to CNN.com/YouTubeDebates for information on how to submit your questions.
You probably heard the phrase, "What would Jesus do?" Tonight you'll meet a man who lived like Jesus, or, well, like the Bible -- he attempted to -- for a whole year. Why did he do it? Well, see for yourself, next.
COOPER: You know the saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes before you judge them? Well, you're about to meet someone who actually did just that and then some.
A.J. Jacobs, a journalist, spent an entire year walking in unfamiliar shoes. Actually sandals. Jacobs is an agnostic who wanted to learn more about the role of religion in the world and whether he might be missing out on something.
So for 12 months, he vowed to live by the oldest rule book around -- the Bible.
COOPER: This is A.J.
A.J. JACOBS, LIVED LIKE BIBLE FOR A YEAR: The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
COOPER: He's a man who's been on a mission of -- well, biblical proportions. For one year he's lived the Good Book as literally as possible -- or at least his interpretation of it. Rules began to pile up fast -- 700 to live by. Like this one: Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
Then there's the rule about no sitting on anything impure. You can hardly blame him on the subway.
Also, praise the Lord with making music on a 10-stringed harp.
And those were some of the easy ones.
In his Bible year, A.J. stoned an adulterer, albeit with a pebble, but still an accomplishment. He ate crickets, participated in sacrificing a chicken and searched in vain for a red heifer.
And his holy living didn't go unnoticed. He got questioned at airports, mocked on street corners.
JACOBS: One moment please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes.
COOPER: And even razzed on TV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's up with the freaky beard?
COOPER: In his quest for biblical literalism, A.J. sought out believers from all walks of life. The creators of the Creation Museum in Kentucky, snake handlers in Tennessee, the Amish in Pennsylvania, and, of course, the faithful in Jerusalem.
And in his travels in both body and spirit, he learned invaluable lessons -- give thanks for things he once took for granted, to respect the beliefs of others, no matter how exotic.
And above all, his year of living biblically gave him something he never thought he'd have -- faith.
But one thing he and his wife will not miss -- the beard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!
COOPER: Oh, my God, indeed.
How was this different than you thought it was going to be at the outset?
JACOBS: Well, it was different in lots of ways.
First of all, it was much more extreme than I thought because it affected every part of my lifestyle -- how I ate, how I dressed, how I thought. And it had a much more profound effect on me than I thought, a lasting effect.
COOPER: In reading the book, and it's a very funny book. It's -- I think it's going to do very well for you. But it's funny, but it's also, you know, got a point to it. And it's got real emotion to it, and it's serious at the same time. I mean, you're not mocking -- you take these people, various religions, seriously.
JACOBS: It's true. I mean, I grew up in a very secular home. As I say in the book, I'm Jewish in the same way the Olive Garden is Italian. So not very.
But I have become very interested in religion, especially since I have a young son and I want to know what to teach him. So I wanted this to be diving in head first and learning about religion.
So it was a journey of learning, not a journey of, you know, sort of making fun or mocking.
COOPER: So what other rules, I guess, had you not known existed before reading the Bible?
JACOBS: Well, I knew about the famous ones, the Ten Commandments.
COOPER: You heard of those?
JACOBS: I heard of those, despite my secular upbringing.
COOPER: We should point out that -- you and I went to the same high school, which was pretty nonreligious at all. I don't think there was any talk of religion in our school at all.
JACOBS: No, no prayers during assembly.
COOPER: I think we had, like, a winter assembly in one of those nondenominational things.
JACOBS: Right. Exactly.
COOPER: So you knew about the Ten Commandments?
JACOBS: Yes, I knew those. But I didn't know about -- there are dozens -- hundreds of lesser-known commandments like stoning adulterers. That was one.
COOPER: And we said in the piece that you stoned an adulterer, albeit with a pebble. How did you -- what was the stoning of?
JACOBS: Well, it was an odd experience, actually. I was dressed in my biblical robes and I was walking in the park. And a man came up to me and asked me what I was doing. I explained my project.
And he said, well, I'm an adulterer. Are you going to stone me?
And I said, that would be great. So I took out a handful of pebbles. And he actually grabbed the pebbles from me and threw them at me so I felt in self-defense, I could throw one at him.
COOPER: I see. Interesting.
Has it changed -- the year of living biblically, has it changed your faith?
JACOBS: It has. I started out as an agnostic, and by the end of the year I became what a minister friend of mines calls a reverent agnostic. Which is whether or not there's a god, I believe there's something to the idea of sacredness and that the Sabbath can be sacred and rituals can be sacred. And there's something important about that.
COOPER: And this -- the book has been optioned for a movie.
JACOBS: That is true.
COOPER: Who do you want to play you?
JACOBS: Well, I'll be happy with anyone, as long as it makes it to the screen. Fyvush Finkel, I don't care.
JACOBS: Fyvush Finkel.
COOPER: Who's that?
JACOBS: He's an old actor. But, of course, you know, Ben Stiller.
COOPER: What, in the Yiddish theater in, like, the '20s?
COOPER: Well, you know, I played Shalom Oiken (ph) in the Dalton (ph) production of the...
JACOBS: I did not know that.
COOPER: Well, it was a fine production in the fifth grade.
Well, congratulations on the book. It's really funny and it's really well written. It's a great read.
JACOBS: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: "The Year of Living Biblically". It's pretty funny.
Up next, he won the Nobel Peace Prize for his work to warn the world about the climate crisis. Will Al Gore take his global campaign to the White House? Hear what he is saying.
First, REM's contribution. You can hear the whole song on our Web site, CNN.com/360. Here's a quick sample.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF CORWIN, WILDLIFE BIOLOGIST: The success of one species is often dependent upon the other.
Sixteen of the 20 most polluted cities in the world are here in China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Could it be the start of the presidential run for Al Gore? Today the former vice president and the U.N. sanction group called the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change both became winners of the Nobel Peace Prize for their work in raising awareness about global warming.
Some political pundits have suggested that Gore might use the award to launch a presidential campaign, but a close confidant of Gore's tells CNN that will not be the case, apparently because he believes Hillary Clinton is unstoppable.
During his news conference today, Gore talked about the environment instead of about politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It truly is a planetary emergency. And we have to respond quickly.
There's an old African proverb that says if you want to go quickly, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. We have to go far quickly. And that means we have to quickly find a way to change the world's consciousness about exactly what we're facing and why we have to work to solve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: CNN has launched its own investigation into climate change, among other issues. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Animal Planet Jeff Corwin and I traveled to different parts of the world and were amazed by what we found. See for yourself in less than two weeks. "Planet in Peril" premieres October 23 and 24. You can go to CNN.com/360 to catch a preview of the broadcast.
And while you're there, join the conversation. Send us your questions about our planet. Make it a video and we might put it on a program that we're going to run on October 25, the day after the second segment of "Planet in Peril" airs.
We're going to have a panel of experts who will answer your questions. Anything you want to know about the environment, about what's happening, about what you can do. Once again, just head to our Web site, CNN.com/360.
More of 360 in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Monday on 360, the kidnappings and abuse that shocked America. Two teens abducted in Missouri and held captive by this man, Michael Devlin. This week the former pizzeria manager pleaded guilty to numerous charges and is facing multiple life sentences.
One of the boys, Shawn Hornbeck, was held by Devlin for more than four years. 360's Randi Kaye talks to the boy's parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: What was it like for you to stand so close to this man who did such horrific things to your son?
CRAIG AKERS, SHAWN HORNBECK'S STEPFATHER: Nauseating. To just be in the same room, to know that I am breathing air that could have possibly passed through his body. It just made me sick to my stomach. It's, you know, being in the room with, to me, one of the most evil persons on the planet
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We'll have more of Randi's interview with the parents of Shawn Hornbeck Monday on 360. Hope you join us.
For our international viewers, "CNN TODAY" is next. Here in America, "LARRY KING" is coming up.
And I'll see you Monday.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com