Return to Transcripts main page
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
More Details Emerging in Jessie Davis Murder Case
Aired June 24, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HARVEY LEVIN, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a grim confirmation, the remains found yesterday in Ohio are those of 9-months-pregnant Jessie Davis and her unborn baby. Her boyfriend, policeman Bobby Cutts Jr., faces two counts of murder.
Did he have an accomplice? A woman whose home was searched by the FBI is now under arrest for allegedly obstructing justice.
CHIEF DEP. RICK PEREZ, STARK COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Myisha Lynne Ferrell will appear in court on Monday.
LEVIN: Her neighbor tells us what he's seen and heard. The very latest on the investigation that's riveted the country, next on LARRY KING LIVE.
LEVIN: Good evening, everyone. I'm Harvey Levin, in for Larry King.
There are new developments in the murder of Jessie Davis that could have a dramatic impact on the case against Bobby Cutts Jr.
Let's go right to the ground in Canton, Ohio. Todd Porter is a reporter for the "Canton Repository". Eric Mansfield is a reporter for the Cleveland, Ohio, CNN affiliate, WKYC-TV 3.
Todd, tell us about the arrest of Myisha Ferrell.
TODD PORTER, REPORTER, "CANTON REPOSITORY": An arrest -- a search warrant was served on her home, on her apartment yesterday in Canton. And the search warrant indicated that she was -- they were looking for items related to obstruction of justice.
Sure enough, today the authorities did eventually bring her back into custody and arrest her on charges of obstruction -- of obstructing justice, and that usually means some kind of tampering or hindering -- hindering -- not tampering but hindering of the investigation.
LEVIN: Eric, do we know what the nature of this alleged obstruction is?
ERIC MANSFIELD, REPOERTER, WKYC-TV 3: Well, police began looking into Myisha very early on in the week and established contact with her. Neighbors tell us, and other sources say they took empty bottles of bleach out of her apartment.
They were looking for items that might have had DNA -- blankets, towels -- things that may indicate that Myisha was working with Bobby Cutts Jr., either immediately after the homicide or to help get rid of the body, preparing the body then to dispose of it, later found yesterday about 30 miles north of here.
LEVIN: Todd, what do we know about this woman?
PORTER: Well, we know that she went to high school at Glen Oak High School with Bobby Cutts Jr. Other than that, we don't know a whole lot about her.
She's about 29 years old. She -- a preliminary search of her background doesn't turn up any criminal convictions as of yet. We -- all we know right now is she went to high school with Bobby Cutts Jr. And I'm told that they were not very close in high school.
LEVIN: Guys, I may be missing something here, but the lawyer in me says that, somehow, that this woman has got to have some closer relationship to this guy if the allegation is true that she helped him. Why would he choose a casual friend to help him on something this dark and dramatic?
MANSFIELD: Some that are very close to her says she is just one of the friends that will do anything for you. And that has gotten her into trouble in the past by other friends who have maybe taken advantage of her.
We know that she was a waitress in Canton in one of the districts where Bobby Cutts would have driven his cruiser, may have time to stay in contact with her since high school.
Whether she knew about any of this beforehand we don't know. But police and other sources are telling us that she certainly was involved after the fact in some way and that Bobby had a plan and in some way got her to go along with it.
LEVIN: Todd, is it possible that the authorities filed charges against Ferrell so that she would turn on Bobby Cutts Jr. and testify against him in return for immunity? Have you heard that? And is that an operating theory out there?
PORTER: Well, I'm sure that's an operating theory out here. And sure, it's possible. But that would just be speculation, and I'm going to leave the speculation up to the speculation experts right now.
LEVIN: It just seems bizarre to me. It just seems bizarre to me that this woman, he would entrust with this kind of information if it's just this high school friend.
PORTER: Well, yes, I mean, it certainly does seem bizarre. But right now we are unaware of what type of relationship Bobby Cutts Jr. had with Myisha.
LEVIN: Eric, how did authorities find out about Ferrell's involvement in this case or alleged involvement?
MANSFIELD: That we don't know, but we can speculate that it had to do with cell phone records. They were very, very interested in finding Jessie Davis' cell phone records and also those of Bobby Cutts Jr.
We know they played a part yesterday in how they tracked Bobby's movements, the timeline, from the time Jessie was last heard from until they believe that she was dead and buried and then the movements of Bobby Cutts afterwards.
So it is possible that sources are telling us they found her number, that being Myisha Ferrell, as somebody that Bobby Cutts Jr. would have spoken with after, via the cell phone. But they were aware of her very early on, at least her relationship as an acquaintance.
And they developed basically a circle of friends around Bobby Cutts Jr. Who were his associates? Who was he closest with in the police department? This is one of those people outside the police department they spent a lot of with and very, very early on.
There were other officers, as well. They wanted to know who knew what when, who had some suspicions there. There was some police officers, I'm told, that were in his house yesterday. They were in plain clothes. They were not on duty but were friends of his there to support him.
So we're talking of a department of 180 officers. Big city department, still small enough where everybody knows everybody.
They also know the acquaintances they have outside of the department. And I think that's how they found Myisha so quickly.
LEVIN: OK. Let's bring in Justin Lindstrom, who was a neighbor of Myisha Ferrell, who was there during the events yesterday when the authorities searched -- when the authorities searched her home.
Mr. Lindstrom can you tell us what you saw when they executed the search warrant?
JUSTIN LINDSTROM, NEIGHBOR OF MYISHA FERRELL: I just saw them come through, you know. They started beating on the door and said that they had the warrant. And by the time that we got down to the bottom of the steps, they were already inside.
LEVIN: What did you see them take out?
LINDSTROM: We saw them carry the bleach up out of the basement, but everything else that they took out was in the evidence bags. And you couldn't see through them.
LEVIN: What do you know about Ferrell?
LINDSTROM: Not much. We -- I don't know. We didn't have the best of relationships, and we kind of just kept to ourselves.
LEVIN: What do you -- what do you mean by that?
LINDSTROM: Well, she liked to keep the music on about, you know, 3, 4 a.m. in the morning every night. And you know, you'd ask her to turn it off, and she just wouldn't. So you know, I don't know, a person that doesn't want to work well with others. I don't know.
LEVIN: Did you ever call the police on her?
LINDSTROM: The one time, but that's just because it was, you know, the middle of the night. And again we'd asked her to turn it off, and she wouldn't.
LEVIN: Crazy question, but is it possible that Cutts would have been one of the officers who responded to the call?
LINDSTROM: I really don't know.
LEVIN: Did you ever see Cutts come around there?
LINDSTROM: I'm sorry?
LEVIN: Did you ever see Cutts come around there?
LINDSTROM: No, not to my knowledge.
LEVIN: What did the authorities tell you, if anything, about why they were there? Did you talk to them?
LINDSTROM: They wouldn't tell me anything. I mean, just whatever you could see was about it.
LEVIN: Did you have any discussion with them after the search? There is some reports that they asked you to keep tabs on her.
LINDSTROM: They had asked if we saw her to call them, but she never came back to the house.
LEVIN: Did you notice any -- anything interesting about her pattern of movement during the last week?
LINDSTROM: Just the fact that she wasn't around in this last week. I mean, she's been there the whole time, and then this last week it's, you know, hit or miss. You see her a few minutes and then she's gone.
LEVIN: Eric, let me ask you something. There have been reports that Cutts led authorities to the body. Have you heard that?
MANSFIELD: I've heard those reports, and I have been unable to verify them, that he actually led them or drove with them there. We're told that he had his breakdown and his confession shortly after 1 p.m. They claim they found the body at 3:30. He certainly played a part in letting them know where it was. Whether he was with them in the vehicles or not, we do not know.
We know that it leaked out, though, probably 20 minutes before officially they found the body, that he had made the confession. He had been taken from the home, had spoken with the authorities. They were then moving out to find the body and, of course, did find it around 3:30 Eastern yesterday.
Whether or not he was in the vehicle we don't know yet. But we know he certainly played a part in them finding that grave.
LEVIN: But you heard that there was a confession? Because I've heard both ways. I've heard there was; I've heard that's a bogus story. I've heard that he even talked about watching her die of natural causes and panicking and then burying the body.
MANSFIELD: Well, there have been published reports that he will make the claim that she was dead already when he got there. I have not heard that from sources.
But several people close to the investigation tell me he very much came clean that he was involved in disposing of her body, that he made a confession of being there on Thursday, finding her, wrapping her up, taking her out of there and eventually disposing of that body in the metro park in the next town to the north of here.
Now, what will count as a confession as far as the cause of death, we're still waiting on that from the coroner's office or actually the Summit County Medical Office. We expect to have that at some point this week.
But he has been charged with two counts of murder. So his story will play out when it's ready to play out. The sheriff's office not releasing what he has said to them. But multiple sources confirm he very much came clean to them and at the time it would indicate that that does support his confession.
LEVIN: OK. Eric and Justin will -- Eric and Todd, rather, will rejoin us in the show a little bit later.
Justin Lindstrom, thank you very much for joining us.
We're going to take a break. And later, a defender and prosecutor face off, but next two ministers from the murdered mom's church will join us.
This is LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ: Myisha Lynne Ferrell will appear in Canton municipal court on Monday, June 25, 2007, where she will officially be arraigned on one count of obstructing justice, a felony three. Myisha Lynne Ferrell is charged with obstruction of deputies and agents in investigation into the disappearance of Jessie Davis.
LEVIN: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. We are discussing the horrific murder of Jessie Davis and the arrest of Bobby Cutts Jr. Joining us now from Canton, Ohio, Pastor Dennis Butts, who is the pastor of visitation and special ministries at the Akron, Ohio, church that Jessie Davis's family attends, the House of the Lord, which the family attended since 1999.
Also joining us Bishop Joey Johnson, who was the organizer and senior pastor at Akron's House of the Lord Church.
Pastor Butts, first of all, how is the family doing?
PASTOR DENNIS BUTTS, PASTOR OF VISITATION AND SPECIAL MINISTRIES, HOUSE OF THE LORD CHURCH: Well, the family is devastated, yet at the same time they are together and supporting each other. And we are there to walk with them as they deal with this very terrible situation.
LEVIN: Bishop, this is a fairly small community. What do you tell a congregation when something like this happens? I mean, you see it in the news in other cities, and then it happens in yours.
BISHOP JOEY JOHNSON, ORGANIER AND SENIOR PASTOR, HOUSE OF THE LORD CHURCH: Well, it's going to be very difficult for them to be able to deal with this kind of thing, but we trust that they have faith in God that will carry them through some of these very difficult times.
LEVIN: Pastor, Jessie left a 2-year-old son. And it must be unbelievable, because he's old enough, certainly, to know that something has happened. How is he dealing with this? And what does he know?
BUTTS: Well, I'm not sure I can comment on what he knows, but they are trying to make his surroundings as normal as possible, trying to grieve at the same time as they have just heard the results of finding Jessie.
And the whole family is going through the grief process, which is meaning that everybody has all kinds of different -- a wide range of emotions that they're going through.
LEVIN: And you know, Pastor, complicating everything, they're not just grieving and not just dealing with a 2-year-old, but I would imagine that authorities are there interviewing people, which is a scary proposition, even when you're not grieving.
BUTTS: Well, I can't imagine what they're going through, to tell you the truth, but with all the things that are coming at them at one time. But trying to be there with them and for them. And I'm trying to see how we can help them.
We're just walking with them and just trusting God that he will give them strength and courage to face each day one day at a time.
LEVIN: Bishop, I don't know how else to put this. When something this senseless happens, does it test faith? JOHNSON: There's no doubt about it, that when you face these kinds of things, there's going to be some kind of crisis of faith. You're either going to come out of it better or you come out of it bitter. We're trusting that they're going to be able to rise above this and continue to have their faith in God's strengthened.
LEVIN: Bishop, is there a lot of anger in the congregation?
JOHNSON: I think there's anger always when something like this occurs, because anger is looking for something or someone to blame. But anger is usually primary and a first emotion. We want to get to the hurt that's underneath.
LEVIN: Pastor, what was the theme of your sermon today?
JOHNSON: Today, we were preaching about grace to the fallen, using the story of Mephiboshet.
LEVIN: Do either of you know Bobby Cutts Jr.?
JOHNSON: I don't know him.
BUTTS: No. No, we don't know him.
LEVIN: Pastor, was today's service a larger attendance than usual?
JOHNSON: Normal -- normal day for us today. Not normal in the sense of the emotions but normal in the sense of the size.
LEVIN: Well, Pastor -- Pastor Butts and Bishop Johnson, you clearly have your work ahead of you. Thank you so much for joining us.
Next, a prosecutor and defense lawyer, a crime reporter and a medical examiner dissect this case. Don't go away, this is LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIC GIDEON, WKYC REPORTER (voice-over): There was jubilant praise at two services this Sunday morning.
GIDEON: But never far from anyone's mind was Jessie Marie Davis.
JOHNSON: We want to show compassion to this family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart was going out to the family, and I'm very happy that she's finally home, that she's safe. She's in God's arms.
GIDEON: The House of the Lord had been there with the Davis family from the start of Jessie's disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Harvey Levin in here for Larry King. We are talking about the horrible murder of Jessie Davis.
We have an excellent panel this segment, starting with, in Madison Heights, Michigan, Dr. Daniel Spitz, who is the medical examiner in Macomb County, Michigan.
In Miami, Stacy Honowitz, the Florida assistant state's attorney who specializes in sex crimes and child abuse.
In San Francisco, Michael Cardoza, a prominent defense lawyer.
And in Los Angeles, Jane Velez-Mitchell, an award winning TV news journalist, author of "Secrets Can Be Murder: What America's Most Sensational Crimes Tell Us About Ourselves".
Dr. Spitz, there have been reports that the body of Jessie Davis was severely decomposed and that it's possible that they will never determine an exact cause of death. How can that be, because the body was only missing, maximum, a week?
DR. DANIEL SPITZ, MEDICAL EXAMINER, MACOMB COUNTY, MICHIGAN: Well, when you're dealing with decomposition, and certainly, decomposition can occur and be very severe within a week's time, especially when you have temperatures like we had over the past week.
But decomposition, while it does preclude determination of some types of findings, I don't think it's going to be such that we're not going to going to be determining the cause of death in this case.
We know that there is -- we know that there is blood at the scene, because there was a cleanup that was attempted with bleach. So we're looking for serious injury to this woman. We're not looking for very subtle findings. We're looking for stab wounds, blunt force trauma, potentially even gunshot wounds, wounds that bleed and cause serious injury and wounds that are going to be visible even with severe decomposition.
LEVIN: Michael, Myisha -- Myisha Ferrell is a critical person in this case. Does it feel to you that a deal may be in the making for her to turn on Bobby Cutts, Jr.?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE LAWYER: No question about it. I mean, she is -- she is certainly ancillary to this. You don't want to see anyone be an accessory after the fact to murder. And the authorities take that very, very seriously.
But notwithstanding that, she's got a lot of good evidence that she could give to the court and turn against Bobby. And they will trade her for that.
And keep in mind, here comes Myisha. I don't know how smart a woman she is, whether she is naive or not. But a friend of her calls her over to a scene. And I'm sure he had a whopping explanation to her.
But keep in mind, he was a police officer, and I bet he spun one very good tale to her. So she's going to garner some sympathy from a jury. So I think the D.A. would be well served to get her on his side and trade her her testimony to either let her walk out of that courtroom or to keep her out of jail.
LEVIN: Stacy, there are conflicting reports about Cutts allegedly confessing...
STACY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA ASSISTANT STATE'S ATTORNEY: Right.
LEVIN: ... to this crime. He's a cop. I mean, he knows the game. Are you buying that he confessed?
HONOWITZ: Well, Harvey, we're all sitting here and speculating, because nobody knows the facts except the D.A. who issued the search warrant and the investigators that were in on the investigation.
Do I find it hard to believe that he would confess? I wouldn't find it hard for -- to believe that anybody would confess, whether they're a police officer or not.
Certainly, under a certain amount of pressure, it could get to somebody where they decide to do it. He was around his family members. Certainly, the investigation was closing in on him.
So I don't find it hard to believe that, just because he's a police officer and he knows the game, doesn't mean that he wouldn't confess to committing a crime. We don't know what the circumstances surrounding that confession is, and until we hear what the circumstances are, we are just guessing at all of this.
LEVIN: Jane, why is this case resonating with the public? There are lots of cases, lots of cases with murder, tragedy. We've already seen in the Scott Peterson case and, in many ways, it's a mirror so it's nothing new. Why this case?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, AUTHOR, "SECRETS CAN BE MURDER": Well, Harvey, we've got a big problem in this country. It is accepted wisdom that a leading cause of death for pregnant women is murder at the hands of the men who impregnated them.
And women, when they become pregnant, think they're entering a safety zone. Everybody treats them with extra kindness, gives them a seat on the bus. But the fact is they've entered a danger zone, because their pregnancy has unleashed primal and very, very primitive urges in the man who conceived her.
And he can experience jealousy over the fact that he's second fiddle. He can have financial concerns about supporting this child for the rest of his life. And that can lead to murder. It's a very serious problem.
LEVIN: So why this case? I mean, that happens a lot. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. There are a whole bunch of warning bells. For example, if you have a very messy life, that's a problem. Bobby Cutts had a very, very messy life: three children by three different women, a fourth on the way. He's estranged from his wife. He's got a custody battle with the mother of his first child.
This is a pressure cooker. This is a prescription for disaster. And it's cautionary tale to women: don't get involved with somebody who has a messy life and a history of violence.
Remember, about nine years ago, he allegedly kicked in the door of a girlfriend, and police were called. He ended up pleading no contest to a lesser charge of trespassing. But that's another alarm bell.
He also had a dispute with the police department that resulted in him getting fired by the police department because of a gun that allegedly got into the hands of his cousin, and he was ultimately reinstated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But this is a pattern. People don't change patterns unless they seek help and they do extraordinary work on themselves. So this is a man with a very messy, messy life.
HONOWITZ: I'm sorry.
LEVIN: Go on.
HONOWITZ: I was just going to say, you know, that sounds all well and good, except unfortunately, when you're starting a relationship with somebody, and this is what happens, the person is not going to say to you, "By the way, I have a restraining order against this girl. I have a weapons charge. I was trespassing."
And so when people enter into relationships, in a lot of these domestic violence cases, if in fact, there was a volatile relationship between the two of them, the people are unaware of it. And that's what seems to be the problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacy, he was married, and that should be enough. He was married, and he had a child with his wife. And that should be enough to say, no way.
LEVIN: OK. We are going to take a break. There is a big issue on the table. One has to do with DNA, and the other has to do with a possible deal that Bobby Cutts reportedly may have already cut.
This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stark County prosecutor John Ferrero says it's too early to say whether he has a death penalty case on his hands, adding that pending charges could be elevated.
JOHN FERRERO, STARK COUNTY PROSECUTOR: We will vigorously prosecute this case. We will take this to a court of law. And we will prosecute it as vigorously.
As it stands right now, he is facing two -- two counts of murder, which is the murder of Jessie Davis and also her unborn child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Dr. Spitz, what can you tell us about the importance of DNA in this case especially given the fact that the body was badly decomposed?
DR. DANIEL SPITZ, MACOMB COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Right now there really are two scenes that the investigators are dealing with. You're dealing with the body and you're dealing with the actual scene of the crime.
The crime scene is going to be a very good source for DNA evidence, blood evidence is going to be crucial, trace evidence, hair and fiber evidence may turn out to be crucial. The body is also going to be a good source of DNA evidence. However because the body is decomposed that's going to be somewhat limited.
But certainly the investigators and medical examiners are going to be doing fingernail scrapings, other types of analysis of the body to try to collect DNA even though it's going to be somewhat limited because of the decomposition.
LEVIN: Michael Cardoza, there have been reported that Bobby Cutts may have actually helped lead authorities to the body of Jessie Davis. If that's true, is it possible that the prosecutors have already cut a deal that they wouldn't go for the death penalty if he led them to the body?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have to tell you as a good defense attorney, that's one of the first things I would do. I would meet with the prosecutor and say, my guy is willing to give up where the body is, but you've got to take the death penalty off the table and, Harvey, think about where the search was taking place. It was what 50, 60 miles away from where this body was found.
Nobody was searching where this body was found. So you got to think that Bobby Cutts led them to that.
And now as to the death penalty, the district attorney is going to have to think, can he prove to begin with a first degree murder? Remember first degree murder generally is willful, deliberate, premeditated with malice aforethought. Look at the facts of this case. We have Bobby Cutts at a bar drinking, what, three Corona beers. He then leaves there, goes to her house to Davis' house, there's an SUV with loud music being played and who is going to go and play loud music and they are about to murder someone. And then you have what appears to be a murder scene taking place and then he disposes of the body.
With that, it's going to be awfully hard to prove that he premeditatedly murdered this lady. My guess is going to be there was some heat of passion here and that's probably what the defense attorney talked to them about. You're not going to be able to get into it a first degree murder. Take death off the table. We'll argue when the trial about whether it's a first, second or manslaughter.
LEVIN: Stacy, it may well be that the cause of death is never firmly established. Dr. Spitz said that doesn't necessarily create huge problems for prosecutors. Is that a weakness in the prosecutor's case?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA ASST. STATE ATTORNEY: Well I have to agree with what Michael said before. Always when you see this and hear that the body was decomposed, might be an issue as to cause of death, manner of death, as we know, how it happened.
And I think that it causes some source of weakness that the defense attorney could go to the prosecutor and say, here's what I think the problems might be. And if you do take death off the table, we will talk. We will tell you where the body is. And we will have a conclusion to this case.
So while it might be difficult to prove first degree murder, in this case, I think there's, like I said, we don't know enough about the evidence. But certainly it's something that a defense attorney would go to the D.A. with because he thinks that ultimately there might be problems with the case.
LEVIN: And Todd Porter and Eric Mansfield are rejoining us. Todd the pastor and the bishop both said there's a lot of anger in that town. There's an arraignment tomorrow in the afternoon. Is there a lot of security?
PORTER: Well, yeah, it was moved to later in the afternoon for security purposes. So I think that because of the spotlight and the attention that this case has garnered both locally and nationally that was probably pretty wise move. I don't know -- I can't speak for the entire community about how much anger there is in a community.
I can tell you that almost to a man there's a lot of mourning in this community.
LEVIN: Eric, I heard Jessie Davis' mother talk about the relationship between her daughter and Bobby Cutts Jr. and she described it as complicated but she wouldn't elaborate. Do you know anything more about this relationship?
MANSFIELD: Actually we don't because Bobby Cutts hasn't been forthright with talking to anyone but Todd. And of course we don't have Jessie to talk to. We do know they had a relationship. Her mother tell us one time she believed that Bobby was single. She later learned that he was married. The relationship continued at least on some level and Bobby was involved in the life of two-year-old Blake.
But beyond that we really don't know what relationship they had specifically in the weeks leading up to the murder.
LEVIN: Jane, is it relevant, do you think it's relevant that Bobby Cutts Jr. is a cop?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And this is the kind of crime that actually terrifies the public because he's a police officer. Police officers have a lot of power. They walk around with guns. They walk around with badges. These are the very people that have the power to pull you over late at night and ask you to get out of the car.
So the fact somebody who is a police officer may be a cold blooded killer is terrifying and intriguing. And the fact that he, if he is convicted, if he actually did this, left his two-year-old son by himself with dirty diapers in a disheveled room where there were a whole bunch of problems, bleach on the floor that could have killed this child, you leave a two-year-old for a couple seconds the child can get into trouble. If he in fact left his two-year-old at the crime scene and left with the body, that is a monster, so, of course, it's going to terrify and fascinate the public.
LEVIN: Michael, this little boy, this two-year-old boy, heard things and he heard that mommy hit the table. Mommy was crying. Mommy was in a rug. If Bobby Cutts Jr. was there he had to know daddy was there, too. So there may be things we're not hearing about. This kid is important. Is there any way he could end up testifying?
CARDOZA: No. There is no way he could end up testifying. I mean I have tried an awful lot of felony cases both when I prosecuted and now as a defense attorney, and in order to qualify in a courtroom to testify before a judge or a jury, the witness has to know truth from untruth. And a little boy two years old just is not going to know that. I tell you when I was D.A. we used to struggle with seven, eight, nine year olds at time that couldn't quite grasp that.
What the police used little Blake for, the two-year-old child, what they used him for was probably to focus on Bobby. But they will never be able to get that evidence in. And like I said yesterday, the biggest thing the defense has to do in this case should that little boy have talked is to keep that out of the public's domain because if that comes out, Bobby Cutts will not get a fair trial in front of a jury. He will not because anybody that hears that little Blake said, daddy was there, conviction right off the top. So you can't let that information out.
LEVIN: OK. We are going to take a break. When we come back how did Bobby Cutts get on the police department with a criminal record. How did he stay on the police department after some big problems he had? You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
LEVIN: Prepare yourself for the week ahead. It's a big one here at LARRY KING LIVE. Don't miss Larry's exclusive interview with Paris Hilton on Wednesday. It will be her first interview after she gets out of jail in the wee hours of this coming Tuesday. Also this week, the Beatles, Ringo and Paul reunite for a rare interview along with the widows of George and John.
And don't miss Larry's one on one with Colin Powell and his interview with Robin Williams, all that and more in the week ahead.
LEVIN: Eric Mansfield, Bobby Cutts junior had a kind of checkered past. He had a misdemeanor for breaking into an ex- girlfriend's house before he got on the police department, they hired him any way. And then after he was on the department his service revolver ended up in the home of one of his cousins whose house was broken into based on a search and seizure with a raid involving a drug case. Are the Canton police taking a lot of heat here?
MANSFIELD: Well, I think there is a lot of scrutiny here. He was hired under a previous chief, though, the existing chief, Chief Dean McKimm spoke very eloquently yesterday, talking about how the department had kept a distance during the investigation, a professional distance but a willingness to help and see justice preserved.
He also called Bobby Cutts a rogue officer. That was the key phrase that he used yesterday in hopes the department can re-establish its good name knowing they got a black eye by doing good work. Now whether or not they had any problems with Bobby once they got on the force I think this is going to come to light as this goes on.
How he got on the force, should he ever have been on the force is really a question for the previous administration to own up to.
LEVIN: Todd, you interviewed Bobby Cutts Jr., I believe last week.
LEVIN: What can you tell us about you know, I've heard you talk about the actual interview but are there subtleties about the interview, the way he conducted himself with you? Was he nervous? Can you kind of paint a picture?
PORTER: Well, I mean he looked like a guy who if you could take every emotion you can feel and put nit a blender and throw that in the pit of your stomach that's what he looked like. He looked like that sort of person. Looked like he was mentally and physically, emotionally beat up, but hindsight being 20/20 he's only been charged with two counts of murder but I mean you just don't know people. Don't know what to expect from a person. You don't know if he's mourning, you don't know exactly what he's mourning but he looked like a guy that had just been put through an emotional wreck right now.
LEVIN: We actually have a clip from your interview. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PORTER: Have authorities given you any indication if you're a suspect?
BOBBY CUTTS JR., CHARGED WITH MURDER: I mean they continue to say that I'm not a suspect, but, I mean, I'd be dumb and naive to think that they weren't treat me go as a suspect by different things I had to go through in the past couple days.
PORTER: Have any authorities told you that you've been cleared in this investigation?
CUTTS: No, they have not told me that I've been cleared but as like I said on the media, they said to the media that me and my wife are suspects but I don't feel that we've actually been treated as that was 100 percent true.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
LEVIN: We're not convicting this guy, Jane, but does that tell you anything? I mean if he really is the guy who did it, listening to that controlled voice, does it mean anything?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It's very controlled and it's also got a lot of hesitation in it as if he's pausing to think of what he's going to say next. And that's not something generally an innocent person does.
LEVIN: OK. Before we take a break let's check in with Rick Sanchez for a preview of what is coming up at the top of the hour in the CNN NEWSROOM. Rick?
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, thanks, Harvey.
Here's what we have for you tonight. You've been talking all night long about the Jessie Davis case. Guess what? There's a similar case and this man we're going to show you right here he's right smack dab at the center of this one. His wife and kids were found dead. He was found with a shot in the leg.
Well, as you might expect he told police one story, that it was actually his wife who shot him. They are now saying a different story entirely and they are charging him. Sound familiar?
Also Christopher Dodd has a way to change the way Americans are viewed all over the world. He says we have to change our image, it's imperative, after what he calls the most important speech ever on the subject. He joins us tonight in our Sunday spotlight.
All this right after Larry which tonight is actually Harvey. Doing good, Harvey.
LEVIN: "Harvey King Live." Thank you, Rick. We're going to take a break. When we come back there's a possibility of a mini-trial not in a criminal court but in a family court involving Bobby Cutts. Will the murder of Jessie Davis come on the table in that case? We'll talk about it when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DWAYNE POHLMAN, WEWS (voice-over): Canton police officer Bobby Cutts Jr., appeared to be a normal father and husband but Cutts was also fathering another family with his girlfriend, Jessie Davis. Officer Cutts was at his girlfriend's home just days ago searching, appearing to be stunned by Jessie's disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Stacey Honowitz there is almost certainly going to be a guardianship hearing and maybe a custody hearing involving this two- year-old boy.
LEVIN: They are going to have to decide if they take custody away from Cutts that he's an unfit father. Is it possible in family court they could end up doing a mini murder trial?
HONOWITZ: It's not really a mini murder trial. The mere accusation he's in custody and probably will remain in custody on two counts of first degree murder is going to be enough for a judge to say this child needs to be placed temporarily with somebody else.
Now, they might not terminate the parental rights until, of course, the trial is over and what the outcome of the trial is. But temporarily speaking and for now the only thing that will come before that judge is the fact there is probable cause that he is in custody on two counts of first degree murder. There is no need to go through a trial for it.
LEVIN: Dr. Spitz there have been a couple of reports that Bobby Cutts said that Jessie died of natural causes when he was there and that he panicked and felt that they would obviously blame him and that's why he buried her. What are the chances that somebody in her position would die of natural causes?
SPITZ: Well, first of all, somebody of her age it's exceedingly rare they would die suddenly and unexpectedly of natural causes. Second of all his action don't really go along with that. Not what you would expect with somebody who died suddenly she would take on the course that he took and take her body and bury it.
Third of all, there's evidence of a cleanup. That means that a struggle took place. There is evidence of bleach being used. So there is some injury to the woman's body. The autopsy is not only going to identify the injuries but it's going to exclude natural causes as a cause of her death.
LEVIN: Todd, I understand that you knew Bobby Cutts before all of this happened. What kind of guy was he?
PORTER: I did a story on him about three and a half years ago when he was signed by the local minor league indoor football team here, it was the feel good story, local cop who works the midnight shift getting paid $200 a game to play for the minor league football team.
I bumped into him a handful of times since that story, he always seemed grateful that I covered him and wrote that story about him. He, any time I was around him seemed like he was a pretty easygoing guy, he was laid back, he was quick with a joke, but that's the only Bobby Cutts I know. I certainly don't know Bobby Cutts the father or Bobby Cutts the boyfriend.
LEVIN: Eric, was there, I'm assuming you're probably looking into this now, any history of violence here?
MANSFIELD: Well, we have allegations made by a woman he had a relationship with once before and she has a child with him. She has made allegations that he was violent within the relationship but there has been no other documentation of that. We have not heard that from Jessie's family that he was violent toward her. We just know they have a complicated relationship. What that all means and how that evolved over the few years since Blake was born we just don't know yet.
LEVIN: What are the warning signs of something like this? We've seen cases like this where all of a sudden something horrific happens and everything looks fine on the outside.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That's true. A lot of times things look perfect on the outside it's hiding very messy truths. And we have a real problem with violence in the country. We have an addiction to violence and we use violence as a solution all over the place. So we really have to look at our relationship with violence as general as a society and look at the fact we use violence as a solution.
It's a serious problem especially male-on-female violence which is accepted as business as usual. You just heard there's another similar crime. It happens every single day. The first thing we have to do as a society is start saying this is not acceptable. Enough is enough. We have to look into the why. Why these men are doing this instead of simply catching them, locking them away and waiting for the next person to come along and do something even worse.
LEVIN: We're going to take a break. More of LARRY KING LIVE in a minute.
LEVIN: Michael Cardoza, is it harder or easier to prosecute a cop for this kind of crime?
CARDOZA: Interesting question, Harvey. When you do civil cases, I'm going to answer you know a little obtusely. When you prosecute civilly police officers for a civil wrong, against a client, it's very, very difficult.
I think it's going to be difficult in this criminal case because jurors simply don't want to believe a police officer would do something like this. That being said, on the other side of that coin you have such emotion in this case. And I saw that in the Scott Peterson case. A lot of emotion.
And to this day I think what went on on television before Scott went to trial and how that television and the media affected jurors affected the verdict in that case and it well could happen in this case. So all that being said, I think it's going to be easy to prosecute this guy. But I think it's going to be difficult to get a first degree murder against him because of the facts of the case, not just because he's a police officer.
LEVIN: Todd, what are reporters chasing down in Canton?
PORTER: Well, right now obviously tomorrow will be the arraignment. Something has kind of gone missed in the national spotlight is on cantonrep.com and I would be remiss if I didn't thank all the colleagues back at the newspaper beginning with our editor M.L. Schultze (ph) and the lead reporter on this, Ed Pritchard (ph).
Something has kind of gotten lost in this we have been able to establish a time line for Bobby Cutts around 2:00 a.m. Thursday morning based on a conversation that we had with a woman, with an acquaintance of his that is not Myisha Ferrell but another acquaintance he was according to her and her attorney he was on the phone with her several times between the hours of 10:30 and 2:00 a.m.
LEVIN: You know who this woman is?
PORTER: Yes, I know who she is, yes.
LEVIN: Have the cops interviewed her?
PORTER: I really not at liberty to divulge that.
LEVIN: Well that's pretty significant. So there's a phone record of him calling this woman at that time?
PORTER: If this story pans out, yes, there would be phone records of those conversations.
LEVIN: That's very interesting. Eric, what are you chasing down?
MANSFIELD: Well, I think we're going to head into a week of mourning. I think we're waiting to hear from the Davis family. They really have been holding back the thoughts on Bobby Cutts through all of this. Now they are very much in a state of mourning. We're going to have a funeral for a mother and unborn child at some point this week.
Considering we had several thousand people come out in a 72 hour period to look for her, the entire community, several counties worth of folks have been mourning. I think we'll see one of the biggest funerals we have seen in a long time.
And then after that at some point the Davis family will address the media. I think it is going to be difficult for them to hold back those emotions and their frustration and that anger for losing Jessie.
LEVIN: Has the media overrun the town, Eric?
MANSFIELD: To a point, I think what we have seen seven years ago, with the Theresa Andrews (ph) case, another pregnant woman, nine months pregnant disappears. Seven days later she is found to be murdered. That really brought the town totes knees. We never thought we'd would see it again. That was the next county over. To relive that this way through Jessie Davis has really hit people where it hurts the most.
LEVIN: OK. I want to thank all of my guests, Jane I'll give you a shameless plug, your book is "Secrets Can be Murder, What America's Most Sensational Crimes Tell Us About Ourselves."
And that is going to do it for this special Sunday night edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Thanks for watching. And thanks to Larry for letting me sit in and don't forget, Paris Hilton sits down with Larry this Wednesday for her very first broadcast interview since she went to jail.
Now let's go to Rick Sanchez in Atlanta for the latest news in the CNN NEWSROOM. Rick, the floor is yours.
SANCHEZ: All right. Thanks so much, Harvey. That should be good, that Paris interview. We've got a lot of stories we're going to be sharing with you on this night, including these.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com