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Barack Apologizes to Hillary Over Campaign Memo; Interview With Gary Sheffield

Aired June 19, 2007 - 20:00   ET


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Glad to have you with us tonight.
Why is Senator Barack Obama apologizing to Senator Hillary Clinton? Is his presidential campaign staff out of control, or did he OK a memo that is causing all this controversy?

And you're not going to believe what some brokers will do to get unqualified people into mortgages. Want to buy someone else's paycheck stubs? How about renting their bank account?

Plus: a provocative interview you have got to see to believe, blunt allegations of racism from one of baseball's most controversial insiders.


GARY SHEFFIELD, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER: I'm going to tell you about what you think is racism, and I'm going to tell you what I see as racism.


ZAHN: Well, some people are saying Gary Sheffield is the racist. Wait until you hear what he has to say to them.

But we start with breaking news in the search for a missing pregnant woman in Ohio. Jessie Davis vanished last week, her home trashed, her 2-year-old boy left behind all alone in her home. She's nine months pregnant.

And, tonight, police have released some new information about the search.

Jim Acosta is in Canton and joins me now with the very latest.

When we heard this news, a lot of people jumped to the conclusion that a little brand-new baby left on someone's doorstep might be connected to her in some way. Is it?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we will have to find out, Paula. A baby was found. You're right about that.

Officials over in Wayne County, which is just one county over, less than an hour away from where Jessie Davis disappeared last week, a baby was found on the doorstep of a homeowner in the Amish community called Apple Creek. That's about 45 minutes to an hour west of where we are in Canton, Ohio.

According to authorities there, the homeowners came home from dinner, found this baby on their doorstep, a newborn baby girl, and called authorities right away. Those authorities then rushed the baby to the hospital, where DNA swabs were taken on the baby.

And those DNA swabs are now being used to hopefully find a match with Jessie Davis, who is still missing at this point -- Paula.

ZAHN: And give us the latest on the search for her. What are investigators saying tonight?

ACOSTA: Well, at about 6:00, authorities here in Stark County, Ohio, held a press conference, detailing the latest in their search for Jessie Davis. They didn't have a whole lot.

They released a couple of images from a store security camera that captured some images of Jessie Davis and her 2-year-old son, Blake -- Blake looking very cute in the picture. He's sitting in the front of a shopping cart. And the two of them, you can see, are captured in that photograph.

Another photo that they released at this press conference was actually posted on their Web site, the sheriff department's Web site. It's a picture of the comforter that is now missing from Jessie Davis's home. That comforter possibly is the reason why that 2-year- old son, Blake, keeps saying, "Mommy is in the rug."

His grandmother, Jessie Davis' mother, believes that the child has mistaken that rug for this missing comforter. And, according to Jessie Davis's mother, she believes that her daughter was abducted using that comforter -- Paula.

ZAHN: Jim Acosta, keep us posted.

Meanwhile, investigators are talking to just about anyone to try to build a timeline of -- around Jessie's disappearance.

Again, thanks for the update, Jim.

And we want you to all join Larry King at the top of the hour for more on this case. He will be speaking with the mother and sister of that missing woman.

We move on now to the issue of Iraq, because a major U.S. offensive is just getting under way. But the terrorists are on the offensive, too. In Baghdad today, a truck loaded with explosives and propane tanks blew up next to a Shiite mosque, killing at least 78 people, wounding more than 200.

It is the second time in a week insurgents have targeted a major Shiite Muslim shrine. But, tonight, by the thousands, U.S. forces are also on the move. The major offensive is a direct result of the troop surge President Bush announced back in January.

The military is calling it Operation Arrowhead Ripper. And it is aimed at cleansing out insurgents in one of Iraq's most violent areas. Diyala Province and its capital of Baquba, north and east of Baghdad.

Our Hala Gorani is in Iraq with the latest tonight.

Describe to us why the U.S. military is focused on this area tonight.

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Because it is an al Qaeda stronghold, Paula. Many of these al Qaeda insurgent fighters, who were in control of some parts of Al Anbar Province, which is west of Baghdad, and also active in parts of the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, have shifted their operations and their insurgent activities to Diyala Province and Baquba, its capital, as you mentioned.

So, U.S. forces, within the context of this major U.S. offensive, are trying to uproot insurgents, neutralize them, try to bring security and some stability to that province, and, also, according to U.S. military commanders, try to find and dismantle these factories that manufacture those car bombs and those IEDs that are so deadly to U.S. troops.

ZAHN: But this has been, in the past, a very challenging area for both U.S. and Iraqi troops. What is it that they're up against as they try to conduct this part of the campaign?

GORANI: Well, they're up against very determined insurgent fighters who have been fighting against U.S. troops, using these -- this weaponry, these IEDs, that are very difficult for U.S. troops to fight against effectively, which is why they're mounting this offensive to try to find these factories that manufacture these weapons.

It is also difficult to measure success in this kind of operation, because insurgent activity has shifted, as I mentioned earlier, from one province to the other.

Right now, the U.S. military is focused on security, security, security. They're not focused really on anything else at this point. That's how they will measure success right now. If the number of attacks decreases, that's when U.S. military commanders will be able to report to Washington and to the White House that perhaps this troop surge, as it is being called, has been successful.

But it is going to be quite a challenge -- Paula.

ZAHN: Hala Gorani, thank you so much.

We always talk about the Iraq insurgency, but just who are the insurgents? By one recent estimate, about 30 groups regularly claim responsibility for attacking U.S. or Iraqi government forces. Those groups fall into three broad categories with their own agendas.

The groups the Pentagon loosely labels as al Qaeda have an ideology that divides the world into Muslim believers and enemies. They attract extremists from across the Islamic world to Iraq to fight the U.S., which they consider the ultimate enemy. Al Qaeda is often allied with Iraq's Sunni Muslim insurgents. Sunnis are the minority in Iraq that had all the political power under Saddam Hussein, who was also a Sunni. Sunni insurgents want to drive out the U.S. and reclaim that power.

Al Qaeda and the Sunnis are opposed by Iraq's Shiite Muslim majority. They were liberated by the 2003 U.S. invasion. Shias now control the Iraqi government. And they are reluctant to share political power with the Sunnis -- very complicated stuff, but important.

Radical Shias, like the cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi militia, also want to drive the U.S. forces out of Iraq, just like al Qaeda, and just like the Sunni insurgents.

Will the new U.S. offensive change anything in Iraq? That's a question for my first panel tonight.

Tom Ricks is a military correspondent for "The Washington Post." His book "Fiasco" is about the American military mission in Iraq. Retired Army General David Grange is a CNN military analyst. Vali Nasr is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. His book "The Shia Revival" looks at how conflicts with Islam will shape the future.

Glad to have all of you with us.

Tom, I am going to start with you tonight.

How is this massive campaign any different from the rest we have watched over the last four years?

THOMAS RICKS, MILITARY CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I'm not sure that it really is that different. This does feel a bit like '03-'04.

This was supposed to be the Baghdad security plan, remember. But, instead, we have a large offensive out in Diyala Province. And it does raise the question. This was supposed to be clear, hold, and build. But, if the U.S. doesn't have enough troops to clear and hold in Baghdad, how is it possibly going to hold up in Diyala Province?

ZAHN: Well, that's an important question. Let's ask General Grange if he thinks we do have enough troops to hold this area, once the U.S. and Iraqi forces get control of it.

BRIGADIER GENERAL DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I don't think there are enough American troop units to hold this area. And I think the plan is to have Iraqi units hold it, but, this time around, the way I understand it, with train advisory groups that are more robust than in the past that will work together to keep an eye on those Iraqi groups, and report back to American commanders.

So, I think it is a little bit different. I do think they have to work this area, because, as they're successful within Baghdad, these groups are going out to these fringe areas, and you have got to keep the pressure on, because they continue to bounce back and forth, finding safety havens in the population that they can strike from.

ZAHN: Vali, how confident are you, given what the general has just laid out, not perhaps having enough troops to hold any kind of gains made by the U.S. forces, that this will succeed?


In other words, first of all, the insurgents can move around. They can leave Diyala and go somewhere else. But I think the most important burden on the U.S. military is to restore credibility for the surge in the minds of the Iraqi population, whose trust in the fact that the surge is working was greatly shaken by the Samarra bombing last week and by the bombing today.

ZAHN: Let's go back to Tom Ricks, and ask for your judgment on whether you think this will succeed.

RICKS: Well, it depends what you call success. My big worry here is that they push the insurgents in one more direction. And, in the past, what we saw, for example, during second Fallujah, late 2004, was, the insurgency moved up into Mosul.

Well, we're very thin on the ground in Mosul now, thinner than we were back in '04. The last time I looked, we only had one battalion left up in Mosul of American troops. That's just fewer than 1,000 U.S. troops. So, we really are exposed in some places up north now. And, if history is any indicator, that might be the next place where we have problems.

ZAHN: And let's talk about that potential, General Grange. It seems that we are fighting several groups here. And, once you succeed in either wiping out one group or at least gaining control of an area, what about the growth of the new enemy?


GRANGE: Well, I agree with Tom. That will happen. The enemy will move. They have to for survival. They -- when you are being attacked, you evade. You melt into the population. You find a new safe haven.

Here is why I'm a little confident in this. Yes, there could be more troops. There's no doubt in my mind. But I know the division command. I know the assistant division commander. I know several of the brigade commanders. And I know what cut of cloth these guys come from. I know they're going keep the pressure on the enemy.

And I know that General Petraeus has plans on these second- and third-order effects to counter that issue. I mean, they're planning on that, that they have risks...

ZAHN: All right.

GRANGE: ... that they have to take on. ZAHN: Vali, need a quick last answer to our panel here. What happens if this doesn't work?

NASR: Well, in many ways, it is already that -- we're already in that phase. It is not working. And that's the reason why we're not seeing political compromise between the various Iraqi factions. They're not confident enough to make a deal.

ZAHN: Tom Ricks, General David Grange, Vali Nasr.

You were very disciplined with that time cue, Vali. I appreciate that. Thanks.



ZAHN: We have got to move on to something completely different now.

It is really unusual for presidential candidates to make a public apology. But wait until you hear why Senator Barack Obama is saying he's sorry for. Will it really never happen again?

And you have got to stay tuned for my candid interview with a baseball insider. He says Hispanic players are easier to control than blacks. Can he be right? Or is he the racist some people say he is?


ZAHN: Ahead tonight, my no-holds-barred interview with a baseball insider who says Latino players are easier to control than blacks. So, how does he feel when he hears people accusing him of being a racist?


SHEFFIELD: I really don't care what they say. That's just as simple as that.


ZAHN: You have got to stay for this entire interview. It is really worth watching, lots of fiery things to say from Gary Sheffield.

And, tonight, there is an intriguing development that might or might not have something to do with the presidential race. Late this afternoon, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced he's leaving the Republican Party. No, he's not signing up as a Democrat. He says he will be an independent.

There, of course, has been talk, a lot of talk, that Bloomberg might run for president as an independent. But he says today that's not why he dropped his party affiliation. He says, a nonpartisan approach has worked wonders in New York. Meanwhile, as for the real candidates, Democrat Barack Obama has promised he would stay away from ugly attack-dog politics, but, tonight, he's apologizing for something that sounds look a slur against people from India and against one of his opponents, Senator Hillary Clinton.

Dan Lothian has the latest for us on what Obama calls a dumb mistake.


DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): (AUDIO GAP) Obama are both embraced by the Indian-American community. But this three-page memo from Obama's campaign referring to Clinton as the -- quote -- "Democrat from the Indian state of Punjab" has changed the tone of this warm relationship.

SANJAY PURI, CHAIRMAN, U.S. INDIA POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE: They're really trying to drive a wedge here. There was a lot of concern in the community, a lot of, obviously, people who are worried.

LOTHIAN: The document circulated by Obama staffers criticized the Clintons, who they say reaped significant financial rewards from their relationship with the Indian community. It also says she's been targeted for an unwillingness to protect American jobs, not taking enough of a hard line against outsourcing.

The Clinton camp, which declined to comment publicly about this flap, instead got the memo, then offered it up to news organizations.

DOUG HATTAWAY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it is more smoke than fire here.

LOTHIAN: Democratic consultant Doug Hattaway:

HATTAWAY: The Democrats, during the primary, are going to try to outdo each other, see who is going to be toughest on these companies that ship American jobs overseas.

LOTHIAN: In this case, it backfired. And where did Obama staffers get the Punjab reference from in the first place? They borrowed it from Mrs. Clinton's own words. In a fund-raising speech to Indian-Americans last year, she joked, "I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab, and win easily."

India Indian-Americans were apparently not upset with that comment because they say it was a humorous attempt to connect.

PURI: If you go to political events for -- within different ethnic communities, politicians try to find some common ground.

LOTHIAN: Puri calls the memo hateful and stereotypical, especially for a candidate promising a new kind of politics. Obama now blames his staff for a -- quote -- "dumb mistake."

In a statement to CNN, his campaign said: "The intent of the document was to discuss the issue of outsourcing. But we regret tone that parts of the document took."

(on camera): If anything, Indian-Americans who are outraged hope this flap will be a lesson to all the presidential hopefuls: Be careful about using ethnic groups to score a political point.

Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.


ZAHN: And let's go out in the open with this tonight with our panel, Hrishi Karthikeyan, a co-founder of South Asians For Obama, and one of the people you just saw in Dan's piece, Sanjay Puri, chairman of the U.S. India Political Action Committee.

Glad to have both you with us tonight.

I want to start with you, Sanjay. And I want to put up on the screen something that you sent in a letter to Senator Barack Obama.

In part, it reads, "We are so concerned about media reports indicating your staff may be engaging in the worst kind of anti Indian-American stereotyping."

What specifically so offended you by this memo?

PURI: Well, I got a call from Senator Obama today. And he said that he's very angry, the angriest he's been since he joined the Senate.

We are angry, I'm angry, because, if you read the memo, it basically says, Indian-Americans don't have a place in politics. And, you know, you talk -- they talk about outsourcing. They talk about shipping jobs. And then they talk about Indian-Americans.

It is as if Indian-Americans are out there with an agenda for outsourcing. And, also, we work very hard to bring Indian-Americans into the political process. And it really drives a wedge, in trying to use communities and playing on the fears of communities. And that's what was really bothersome to us.

ZAHN: All right. And you say you spoke with the senator, and he said he's never been angrier about anything. But this memo went out. Has he claimed enough responsibility for that, as far as you're concerned?

PURI: We hope that he does. And, obviously, again, we are looking -- and he said that he's going to make attempts to reach out to the community.

But, again, this is an issue that we need to constantly watch, because you have got to understand that we can't play on the ethnic sensibilities of people, because the Indian-American community has a right to be engaged in the political process, just like anybody else.

We read the memo. It talks about the U.S.-India Senate. There is a subtext of dual loyalties, and as if the outsourcing issue is an Indian-American issue.

ZAHN: Hrishi, are you willing to cut the senator any slack here, when he blames it on his staff, but still, at the same time, expresses anger that this has gotten out there?

HRISHI KARTHIKEYAN, SOUTH ASIANS FOR OBAMA: Well, Paula, the senator has made perfectly clear that he didn't see this memo before it went out. It did not reflect his views.

And, as Sanjay just referred to, he was as angry about it as we were. So, I take him at his word. But what is more important for me and for our community is to go forward from here. And the senator did the appropriate thing by apologizing for this. And he did it publicly.

ZAHN: But, Hrishi, do you think his staff was trying to score political points against Hillary Clinton?

KARTHIKEYAN: I don't want to speculate on the motivations of the people who wrote it. The senator assured us that it reflected stupidity and ignorance. And he repudiated it.

There's -- I'm not going to defend the memo. No one is going to defend the memo. But I think the senator did the right thing by reaching out to the community and apologizing publicly and personally.

ZAHN: And, Sanjay, what about the point he was making that, in some way, both of the Clintons have benefited financially from their relationship with Indian companies, and, I guess, that goes on to the issue, in some way -- I guess the subtext is that they support outsourcing in some way, and they're not defending -- or at least she's not defending -- the protection of U.S. jobs enough?

PURI: Well, you know, again, the way we look at it is, it is really an attempt to drive a wedge, to -- they're playing on the fears of people, that -- outsourcing is an issue that is impacting Indian- Americans, like everybody else. Indian-Americans are Americans, too.

They're worried about the future for their kids, like all of us are. So, you know, trying to play on that is really not the right way. We have got bigger issues in this country. And I think we should stay focused on that. But this document doesn't do that.

ZAHN: Sanjay Puri, Hrishi Karthikeyan, thank you both.

KARTHIKEYAN: Thank you, Paula. Good to be with you.

PURI: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Appreciate your time.

One of the top issues in the presidential campaign is improving education. That's why you will want to stay tuned for this woman's story. She's putting our best young teachers in the most desperate schools in the most dangerous places.

Plus: the outrageous claim by one of the most outspoken people in baseball, that Hispanic players are easier to control than blacks.


ZAHN: Tonight, I want to introduce you to someone who took a dream she had in college and turned it into a nationwide movement. Now, 17 years later, she's inspired thousands of people to become teachers in some of the nation's most troubled schools.

Deborah Feyerick has tonight's "People You Should Know."


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I want to talk about educational excellence.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to make sure every child has a good preschool beginning.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is a lot of talk about fixing public education. But this woman is determined to actually do it.


FEYERICK: Meet Wendy Kopp, founder of Teach For America.

KOPP: Well, our country aspires so admirably to be a place of equal opportunity, and, yet, where you're born still in our country does so much to determine your educational prospects.

FEYERICK: Kopp says she's trying to solve that crisis by placing the country's top college graduates in 26 of the nation's poorest public school systems. The reason?

KOPP: There are 13 million kids growing up in poverty today. By the time they're in fourth grade, they're already three grade levels behind.

FEYERICK: It is an issue that this year led 18,000 college grads, many of them Ivy Leaguers, to compete for a chance to join Kopp's mission.

JOSEPH ALMEIDA, TEACH FOR AMERICA CORPS MEMBER: How I do make 10 without multiplying one times 10?

FEYERICK: Kopp says, the program isn't just inspiring students, but the participants as well.

ALMEIDA: Is that clear?

FEYERICK: In fact, she says 66 percent of Teach For America's 12,000 alumni are still working full time in education.

ALMEIDA: But, once you see that they're motivated and they're inspired and they're working incredibly hard, how can you walk away from that?

KOPP: Good luck.


FEYERICK: Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.


ZAHN: Good for her. Wish we could clone her.

Coming up next, we turn to a question of race and baseball. Would you believe that baseball's powers that be prefer Latino players to blacks because they're easier to control and they make less money? A controversial insider says, that's a fact.


SHEFFIELD: I get it first hand. It is not like, you know, I'm just blabbing off and just saying something that I don't know nothing about. If they -- you know, they bring this to me.


ZAHN: Out in the open next: allegations of blatant racism in baseball, and then return allegations that Gary Sheffield himself is a racist -- that interview coming up.


ZAHN: So, you want to buy a paycheck stub, not the check, just the stub? Coming up in this half hour, the unbelievable, even illegal ways people can get mortgage money.

Then coming up at the top of the hour, LARRY KING LIVE, you don't want to miss, he will have the latest on that missing pregnant woman and the newborn baby that is just been found in a basket a little over 40 miles from where that woman disappeared.

Moving on to our show now. Is it racist to say you can't control blacks? That Latinos are more likely to follow instructions?

Tonight, one of the best and most outspoken players in Major League Baseball is out in the open, defending what he said in the latest issue of "GQ" magazine. In it, Gary Sheffield of the Detroit Tigers talks about the reason for the drastic drop in the number of black Major-Leaguers. Latinos now make up 29 percent of players; blacks just 8 percent. And here is the key quote. "It's about being able to tell" -- and he meant Latin players -- "what to do," he says. "Being able to control them. Where I'm from, you can't control us."

That statement is loaded with offensive possibilities against Latinos and blacks, so we wanted to hear from the man himself. Gary Sheffield's memoir, "Inside Power," is in bookstores now. He's playing tonight in Washington. But I spoke with him about his controversial words just a little bit earlier on tonight. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And Gary Sheffield joins us now. So glad to have you with us tonight. Thanks for joining us.

GARY SHEFFIELD: Thanks for having me.

ZAHN: You made a very broad generalization in a number of different places about Latino players being easier to control than blacks. Do you understand why so many Hispanics were offended by what you had to say?

SHEFFIELD: No, I don't.

ZAHN: You don't. You don't think it's racist at all and you don't understand how they could view it...


ZAHN: ... that way?


ZAHN: And can you give us the evidence that you've seen on the field and off the field that in some way, that Latino players are -- act differently than blacks and are easier to control, easier to manipulate.

SHEFFIELD: Well, this is the funny part about it. You know, you guys sit there, and, you know, you guys think you know about what goes on with, you know, African-American players, white players, you know, Latin players. But I live it. You know -- you know, I'm a veteran player. I get it firsthand from Latin players. They come to tell me the exact same thing that I said. I've been saying this a long time ago.

All of a sudden, now, it gets in "GQ" and everybody wants to run with it and put their spin on it.

ZAHN: Explain to me what Latino players have said to you about what they collectively feel.

SHEFFIELD: Well, they feel like when they come over, they're not allowed to be in the draft, number one. So when you come to their home, they're not represented by an agent. They don't sign -- what they're risking is, they have to, you know, make a choice. Or should I go back, you know, and eat hot dogs for dinner, or take this money and try to go make a living for my family. Those are the choices that they have.

So when they come over here, they can't make waves. They can't make waves, because there are so many players now that's coming from over there, that they'd just replace them with somebody else.

But as blacks, we have a choice. You know, we can go do something else. And we don't have -- you can't send us nowhere else. And that's the difference, and that's what I meant.

ZAHN: So, Gary, you're clearly making a distinction between Latino players that were born here in the United States and Latino players who are coming here, many trying to gain their citizenship for the first time.

SHEFFIELD: Absolutely. And that's as simple as it gets. If you are a Latin living in the States, you get to go to American high schools, or whatever, American college and get drafted like everybody else.

But when you're from the -- another country, the rules are different. And this is what I'm talking about.

And I got Latin players talking to me about this. And if they didn't come to me with it, I wouldn't know it either. You know, so there is a lot of things they educate me on, and I do my research and I find out. I find out a lot of things that goes on. And sometimes you get in trouble for knowing too much sometimes, because when you express it, people don't like it. And like I always said, too bad.

ZAHN: What do you see as the main difference between the way blacks and Latinos deal with management?

SHEFFIELD: Well, you know, Latinos, you know, they speak amongst each other. You know? You know, when they have issues going on. You know, I can't tell you everything they do personally, but I can tell you about blacks. You know, we -- we demand respect. You know, we'll go out and we'll do whatever you ask us to do, as long as we feel like you care about, you know, us as people. And if we don't feel that, we're not going to listen to your authority. I know I'm not.

ZAHN: What are you trying to accomplish by making these accusations?

SHEFFIELD: Well, I'm trying to bring awareness to it, and then more intelligent people can talk about these subjects, and then we can bring change. Until -- and if nobody going to talk about it, we can't bring change. And until there's an even playing field, then it's going to continue. And like I said before, you know, I have three years left. And when I'm done, then, you know, somebody else has to step up, and, you know, take on this.

ZAHN: As a guy who grew up, you said, in an environment where you hung out with an awful lot of whites -- you have white friends, you have Hispanic friends...


ZAHN: ... how do you feel when you hear people accuse you of being a racist?

SHEFFIELD: I really don't care what they say. That's just as simple as that. My chef is -- my chef is white. You know, we have the same conversations at home. So the thing is, is that, you know, like I tell him, you know, I'm going to give you the honest truth; this is the way it is.

But, you know, people are going to say what they want to say. But I know that I'm not. So go right ahead and say it. And when you say it, I'm saying it back to you. So it really doesn't matter.

ZAHN: By the way, who are you supporting for president?

SHEFFIELD: There you go.

ZAHN: I saw that. That was a pretty good clue.

SHEFFIELD: There you go.

ZAHN: All right, Gary Sheffield, good luck tonight in your game. And I know you're spending some time with your son as well.

SHEFFIELD: Absolutely. Thank you.

ZAHN: Thanks for dropping by to our studio.


ZAHN: And once again, Gary Sheffield's new book is called "Inside Power" and we're take this to our "out in the open" panel now. Republican strategist, Robert Traynham, and Sandra Guzman, Emmy Award winning journalist who's now an associate editor of the "New York Post" and the author of "The Latina's Bible: The Nueva's Guide to Love, Spirituality, Family and La Vida."

SANDRA GUZMAN, JOURNALIST: Mui bien, gracias. Gracias.

ZAHN: Sandra, I'm going to start with you, tonight. I want to read again some of what Gary Sheffield said in "GQ" which sparked this controversy. He said, it's about "being able to tell [Latin players] what to do...being able to control them. Where I come from, you can't control if you're equally good as this Latin player guess who's going to get sent home? I know a lot of players that are home who can outplay a lot of these guys."

He would argue Latinos stay on the field because they're almost subservient, that they won't stand up for themselves.

GUZMAN: How times have changed, Paula.

ZAHN: Are you offended by that?

GUZMAN: Well, actually, I got to tall you that I love Sheffield because he's not scripted and because you can always get him to talk about controversial issues that no one else will talk about.

ZAHN: But do you view him as a racist?

GUZMAN: I don't think it's racist. I think it's stupid and I think it's ignorant. Times have changed. Roberto Clemente, one of the greatest players, was called "hot tempered." Remember, Latinos are suppose to be hot tempered, so this stereotype doesn't make any sense at all, that we're docile, easy to control. We come -- the majority of these guys, 25 percent, come from destitute poverty...

ZAHN: Right and what you did not hear, and he told me in that interview that there is the constant fear that they're going to be sent home. And basically either be deported or sent home by managers who say, you know, if this guy's going to give me trouble, there are 100 others I can go for.

GUZMAN: Right, and I think any player who makes it from destitute poverty, whether it's destitute poverty in Santo Domingo or in Harlem or in Chicago, is going to be afraid to be shipped back home to that inner city. What I think Sheffield wanted to say, I hope that he wanted to say, was there are problems with recruiting inner city kids.

ZAHN: All right.

GUZMAN: There are no more Manny Ramirez's. How many of these great inner city ballplayers can you talk about? So it's an economic issue. This is not a racial issue, it's an economic issue and baseball is economics.

ZAHN: But Robert, when you look at the statistics, we showed at the top of the segment, and you see that although blacks and Latinos make up about the same amount of the U.S. population, almost three time as many Latinos are playing baseball. Are black players getting a raw deal?

ROBERT TRAYNHAM, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Paula, I got to tell you, I have mixed emotions about this. My first emotion is, first of all, he actually has a very good point. If you look at the facts and the statistics of what you raised, 29 percent of the population are Latinos, in terms of major league baseball and only eight percent or 8.9 percent are African-Americans. Let's look at why.

Well, if you take a look at major league baseball in terms of where they're putting their academies at, they're actually putting their academies in countries overseas as opposed to the inner cities, so...

ZAHN: All right.

TRAYNHAM: Mr. Sheffield makes a very good point; however, he phrased it wrong.

ZAHN: All right.

TRAYNHAM: But, I understand the spirit of what he's trying to say.

ZAHN: But he's not only ticked off Latinos, Robert, with these comments, there are a lot of blacks I've spoken with who say, well how you stereotyping us as these absolute hot heads that challenge authority and very, very tough to deal with?

GUZMAN: Absolutely. TRAYNHAM: Well absolutely. I mean, that was my second emotion. My second emotion, as a black male, he -- his comments certainly are, I think, misguided. I think they're -- certainly are very emotional. And I got to tell you, I mean, frankly as a minority, I take that -- offense to that because what he's saying is that all minorities are either -- A, can be controlled or B, can't be controlled. And so, again, the real issue here is whether or not there are enough African- Americans and Latinos in major league baseball and are they treated fairly? That's issue No. 1 one. And as my colleagues say, this is a economic issue, this is a business issue, and frankly, this is major league baseball's issue.

But the second issue is, is how he phrased his points. And again, I think he used a poor choice of words.

ZAHN: Robert Traynham, Sandra Guzman, in agreement on at least that last point. Thank you, both.

Mortgage fraud is a national crisis. How are people getting mortgages that can't afford them? We are bringing insider tricks "out in the open." Can you believe it's possible to rent someone else's bank account or buy a stranger's paycheck stubs?

And the struggle to save some of the world's most endangered, most amazing creatures, makes one man a "CNN Hero." You'll meet him coming up.


ZAHN: Tomorrow night at 8:00, you an e-mail from a hitman: hand over thousands of dollars or you're dead. What could it be? Who's behind it? An "out in the open" investigation tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern.

Tonight, the housing market is still in the tank, but you know that. The government says construction of new homes dropped 2.1 percent just last month and the total was 24 percent below May of last year. It's all because of the subprime mortgage meltdown. Subprime loans go to people with poor credit and even now you could still find lots of ways to get around tighter credit rules and some are legal, some of them are not.

Our personal finance editor, Gerri Willis, is here to tell us more in tonight's "Biz Break."

Last week you began to tell us how you could buy a better credit rating online.


ZAHN: And now you're going to tell us there is more?

WILLIS: But wait, there's more. You can actually buy a whole new financial identity online, make yourself look like a million bucks, and it only takes going to a few Web sites to buy, say, oh, a pay stub, like a fake pay stub. Check this out. This Web site is amazing. You just type in, oh, the name of the employer, maybe you have the logo, hourly salary, what state you're in and it kicks back a payroll stub that look like the real thing, costs about 50 bucks and that's not all. You can also get a bank account statement that makes it look like you've got tons of dough. This is at

ZAHN: So, they make that part clear.

WILLIS: Yeah, and it is hilarious. See, it says "fake how much you make" on that Web site? It's unbelievable. OK, now here's where you get documents that, you know, are not true, you know, for example, the bank account. This allows you to get bank account statements, utility bills, all the documentation you need to get a mortgage.

ZAHN: That is really scary.

WILLIS: But you're making up the numbers. You know what I mean? Now, the other one wanted to show you, This is also getting the credit score you want by paying for it. Now, we talked about this last week. There's more than one Web site, it's amazing as well. I got to tell you, I'm sort of amazed at what is out there online. If you really -- if you wanted to dupe lenders, you really could.

ZAHN: Is it legal?

WILLIS: Well, you know, you're supposed to tell the truth when you fill out mortgage documents. You're not supposed to make stuff up. And I got to tell you, there's a disclaimer on the Web sites, we should tell you about this. For example, ReplicaDocDocs (sic), let's show you that. They have a disclaimer on their Web site saying, hey, novelty documents, you're not supposed to lie. You know, no deception, criminal activity, blah, blah, blah. You know, they're saying this is not the right way to use our Web site.

ZAHN: Well, of course not. But how do you go about tracking down these false statements?

WILLIS: You know, we talked to the FBI, the FTC. They say these crimes are on the rise and pretty dramatically too. And there's no really great way to track it because mortgage bankers don't always know that they're being led down the garden path. I mean, think about it, this really disrupts the whole system because there's information that is out there that's just not true.

ZAHN: Do we have any idea how many people are doing this?

WILLIS: No. I mean, we don't. We really don't.

ZAHN: But, is it enough of a trend that regulators have got to look at this really closely and say, you know, you look at a soft housing market all together, the impact this could have.

WILLIS: The FBI says that in 2005 mortgage fraud was the fastest growing crime in America. So, I mean, it's very ugly. Right now, though, mortgage bankers now are saying, OK, we're going to have disclaimers in our mortgage documents that you're going to sign that say that you're not giving us false information. It's going to be up to you to tell us the truth. You know? So, I think people out there need to know that some of the stuff out there could be bad. You can't misrepresent yourself on mortgage documents. It's your responsibility to tell the truth.

ZAHN: And if you see, isn't that sort of a dead giveaway in.

WILLIS: Yeah, a dead giveaway.

ZAHN: All right, Gerri Willis, thanks very much.

WILLIS: You're welcome.

ZAHN: Appreciate you're walking us through that.

You think one person can't make a difference in this world? Stick around and see what a "CNN Hero" is doing to save some of the planet's most endangered species. Look at these gorillas, they're great, aren't they? One of those ah pictures.


ZAHN: Tomorrow night at 8:00, you an e-mail from a hitman, hand over thousands of dollars or you're dead. What could it be? Who's behind it? An "out in the open" investigation tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern.

You think one person can't make a difference in this world? Stick around and see what a CNN hero is doing to save some of the planet's most endangered species. Look at these gorillas. They're great, aren't they? One of those ah pictures.

Tomorrow night at 8:00 you get an e-mail from a hitman: hand over thousands of dollars or you're dead. What could it be? Who is behind it? An "out in the open" investigation tomorrow night, 8:00 eastern.

I guess we all wonder what difference one person can make and right now I want to show you an amazing effort to save our planet. It is happening in the central African country of Rwanda, which was torn apart by war during the 1990s and among the victims, the country's mountain gorillas. But now one man is dedicating his life to saving that or them, that is, he is tonight's "CNN Hero."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can start off anywhere.

EUGENE RUTAGARAMA, PROTECTING MOUNTAIN GORILLAS: When you approach a group of gorillas, the first feeling that you are approaching a human being.

In this region, we have been able to bring conservationists from three governments together to sign an agreement to protect these mountain gorillas.

Having rangers to cover the park with patrols means that we keep the poaching at the very lowest level. But the poaching is still there.

My name is Eugene Rutagarama, my work is to protect mountain gorillas in their habitat.

When they come back from Burundi, Rwanda was devastated by the genocide. You see the bodies of dead people -- thousands of dead people.

The whole country had to resume from the scratch. My attention went to the national parks.

If these parks were not protected, it means that we'd have lost the mountain gorillas, which is hobby for many tourists to bring foreign currency for this country, which helps to conserve this park.

Gorillas can't really do much it a human being has decided to decimate or to kill the gorillas. They needed to be defended; they need to be protected by human beings.


ZAHN: And there say lot more out there about the effort to save Rwanda's mountain gorillas on our Web site, That's where you can also nominate your hero for special recognition later this year.

We're just minutes away from the top of the hour and a LARRY KING LIVE you don't want to miss. Larry will have the very latest on that missing pregnant woman from Ohio and the newborn baby that has just been found in a basket, some 40 miles away from where she disappeared.


ZAHN: And that wraps it up for all of us here tonight. Thanks so much for joining us. Tomorrow, what if you got an e-mail saying "I've been paid to kill you, but I won't do it if you pay me $30,000." It isn't a joke, it's a new extortion scheme and the FBI says people are not only terrified by it, they are really falling for it.

One more heads up, all day long on CNN, we will be focusing on the global refugee crisis as part of our coverage. We start the day off with Kiran Chetry as she sits down with an interview with First Lady Laura bush. Hope you will start your day with her. And then hang with the network throughout the day. We'll be back 8:00 p.m. tomorrow night. Have a great night.


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