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NANCY GRACE

Breaking News in Preacher Murder Case

Aired August 4, 2006 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The highly popular and beloved Tennessee preacher gunned down by his own wife inside the church parsonage set to walk out of jail as early as Monday. Tonight, we are live at McNairy County Justice Center, where preacher`s wife Mary Winkler is housed. Also live at the church where her husband manned the pulpit every Sunday morning. And tonight, exclusive video, an interview from inside the jail, where this mother of three sits behind bars. What is Mary Winkler`s daily life now? Tonight, her jailmate speaks out. As the defense fights to get her confession and the alleged murder weapon thrown out of evidence, we take a look at the facts, the jailhouse, the parsonage, the church, and the confession that could land preacher`s wife Mary Winkler on death row.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ""I do remember me holding the shotgun, hearing the boom, and then a smell. He asked me why, and I just said I was sorry."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, live to Tennessee and the McNairy Justice Center, and to Liz Daulton standing by, with WREC. Liz, what`s the latest in the case?

LIZ DAULTON, WREC: The latest in the case is that Mary Winkler could walk free next week. There`s a possibility that she could be posting the $75,000 in bond that`s necessary for her to get out of jail next week. Her family`s working on getting some of the finances together and hoping that they get it together by next week.

GRACE: It`s my understanding the family wants to reduce the bond to a $315,000 property bond, essentially putting their own house up, so there would be no money exchanged.

DAULTON: Yes, that`s true. Her father`s planning on putting his house up for collateral, but it still wouldn`t have been enough for the $75,000 necessary, which is why they asked for the bond to be lowered.

GRACE: Joining us also there at the McNairy County Justice Center, outside where Mary Winkler, preacher`s wife, is being housed tonight, the chaplain there in McNairy County Sheriff`s Department, Blake Carroll. Reverend Carroll, thank you for being with us.

BLAKE CARROLL, CHAPLAIN OF MCNAIRY COUNTY SHERIFF`S DPT.: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: Right now, it`s 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. What is Mary Winkler`s schedule right now?

CARROLL: Mary Winkler`s most likely in her cell resting. She was served supper at 4:00 PM this evening.

GRACE: Take a listen to what Mary Winkler`s cellmate had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was recently in jail with Mary Winkler from about May the 16th until about June the 20th. I see her when we`re getting our lunch -- well, breakfast, lunch and dinner. I see her when we go to church. I speak to her. I see her at mealtime because sometimes she`d be the one that passes out mail, and then, you know, vice versa. Whomever which -- they`re not supposed to let inmates do that, but they let, you know, certain people pass out the mail, and we would see her mostly passing out mail.

She`s really sad, miserable. I can tell that she`s very miserable because she can`t cope with the inside, as far as being around those type of people that do God knows what. You know, she just can`t cope with it because I`m guessing she`s supposed to be this Christian lady, but you know, I`m -- you know, I guess consequences -- you do the crime, you do the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We`ve been doing some researching tonight to find out who preacher`s wife Mary Winkler`s cellmate and blockmates have been. We`ve discovered that there are women charged with dangerous drugs, controlled substances, trafficking in marijuana, burglary. This is a shot of the McNairy County Justice Center on the outside. This is where preacher`s wife Mary Winkler is being housed tonight.

Tonight, we are bringing you an exclusive look inside the jail. Here, I believe, is the holding cell. This is where Mary Winkler waits to go to court. We expect her to be in court next week. Next week, there are going to be some major motions in her case.

You`re seeing inside the jail there at McNairy County. That is the area where prisoners meet. Here is a shot inside the cell. You see the bunk beds. Mary Winkler has a cellmate. We have learned that very often, the inmates place the mattresses from the top of the bunks on the floor. For some reason, more comfortable. Visitation -- there you see on either side, Mary Winkler would be visiting with visitors on the other side by phone.

Believe it or not, this is the rec area. Not much of a recreation going on here. There`s a concrete slab, where the ladies can go outside, if they wish. From what we have learned, Winkler very rarely goes outside the prison walls.

This is inside the McNairy County book-in. This is where inmates go first. They are fingerprinted, photographed, have a body search before they go into their individual cells.

We are inside with exclusive video of the McNairy County jail. It`s a jail for short term. Once a conviction is obtained, they are shipped into the state penitentiary system. We are waiting for a trial to be set.

Let`s go straight back out to Liz Daulton. When is the trial set?

DAULTON: The trial is actually set for the end of October. And like you said, there are several different kinds of motions coming up, a big hearing this Wednesday, where it`s expected that defense attorneys are going to ask for the court to suppress some of the evidence that`s been recovered.

GRACE: Let`s go to Pam Killingsworth. Pam is joining us from outside that Church of Christ church where Reverend Winkler manned the pulpit every Sunday morning. A new preacher is about to helm the church. He`ll be starting toward the end of August. Welcome, Mrs. Killingsworth. Thank you for being with us.

PAM KILLINGSWORTH, FRIEND OF MARY WINKLER`S: You`re welcome.

GRACE: Are you a member there at 4th Street?

KILLINGSWORTH: Yes, I am.

GRACE: When does the new pastor take over?

KILLINGSWORTH: It`ll be around the 1st of September.

GRACE: And it`s my understanding that you have visited with Mrs. Winkler many times behind bars.

KILLINGSWORTH: Yes, ma`am, I have.

GRACE: Has she talked to you about the shooting of her husband?

KILLINGSWORTH: No, ma`am. We don`t discuss that when I visit with her.

GRACE: What is her frame of mind?

KILLINGSWORTH: She`s always very positive and very upbeat when I go to visit her. We talk about how she`s doing. We talk about the girls and how they`re doing, and basically just keep it pretty -- pretty much to she and I talking about how she`s doing and if everything`s OK with her.

GRACE: How are the girls doing, Ms. Killingsworth?

KILLINGSWORTH: As far as I know, they`re doing all right. We have not seen them.

GRACE: Have they visited Mary Winkler behind bars?

KILLINGSWORTH: They have visited her one time.

GRACE: Since March?

KILLINGSWORTH: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: So that`s going on six months now. Mrs. Killingsworth, does she want to go to trial? Does she want all the facts to come out, or is it something she`s dreading?

KILLINGSWORTH: We don`t discuss that, but she -- I would assume that she does want everything to come out.

GRACE: Mrs. Killingsworth, do you have any idea what the pressures were on her before the shooting?

KILLINGSWORTH: No. There was no indication. She was just a normal, everyday mother and wife, seemed very happy in her marriage. The girls seemed content. They were very well-behaved, loved school. You know, nobody saw any of this coming.

GRACE: Is she adjusting to life behind bars? How does she look? Does she say she needs anything behind bars?

KILLINGSWORTH: When I visit with her, she is always in a good mood. She`s smiling. She always thanks me for coming. I tell her that we`re praying for her and we love her and that if there`s anything I can get her. She`s never asked for anything from me. She gets the church bulletin through the ministry service, and she sends cards and letters to people that have been in the hospital or sick. Just -- you know, she`s going on in what appears to me with her normal routine.

GRACE: Speaking of the church bulletin, I have one right here from July 30, this past Sunday, the "4th Street Messenger," it`s called.

Dusty (ph)? Dusty, are you with me tonight?

I notice that where the pastor is supposed to be, it says minister, it is still blank. I was taking a look at this, Pam. With us is Pam Killingsworth, a very dear friend of Mary Winkler. As you know, Mary Winkler behind bars on murder one charges in the shooting death of her husband.

You can see here where the minister slot is still blank. And I was noticing on the inside, which is common among a lot of churches, a prayer list -- who is sick, undergoing treatment, recovering at home, shut-ins in the hospital, local nursing home, convalescence, assisted living. Then there is titled "Others," the Winkler family, Mary Winkler and her family, the Freemans (ph), still being prayed for by the 4th Street church. That is the Church of God there in Selmer, Tennessee.

Ms. Killingsworth, don`t move. Let`s go to the lines. Let`s go to Paul in Canada. Hi, Paul.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m really baffled and stunned to think that someone charged with premeditated murder can be released on bail. I`ve never heard tell of such a thing. It must be only in America, I guess. I`m really, really -- it just upsets me so much.

GRACE: Well, I have to tell you, I`m a little surprised, too. Why don`t we go to the source, Paul? Joining us tonight, two very special guests, the two defense attorneys that are representing preacher`s wife Mary Winkler. Joining us tonight, Steve Farese and Leslie Ballin. They are there in -- one in Tennessee, one in Atlanta. Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us.

To Steve Farese. It`s my understanding that you guys are going to approach the judge, hoping for a $315,000 bond, a property bond. Is that put up by the family?

STEVE FARESE, ATTORNEY FOR MARY WINKLER: Actually, Nancy, we filed a motion approaching the judge with exactly what you`ve stated on the property bond issue. The judge denied our request and left the bond at $750,000. So now we`re at the point that if we are to make bond, we have to go through a bondsman or raise $750,000 or raise a time-and-a-half of that in property. Right now, we`re working in a process that we hope we will be able to raise enough money to pay a bondsman to secure her release.

GRACE: Wait just a moment. On a $750,000 bond, you don`t have to put up the whole $750,000.

FARESE: No, but you have to put up $75,000...

GRACE: Correct.

FARESE: ... and you also have to have collateral for the rest.

GRACE: Correct. And it`s very common practice for families, such as her parents, or even her in-laws, to put up their home instead of a cash bond. Is that where the $315,000 figure is coming from?

FARESE: The $315,000 figure, Nancy, was coming from an accumulation of family property.

GRACE: So that`s still out there. You know, Steve, you know, in a lot of jurisdictions, it`s very difficult to get a bond if there`s going to be, A, a murder case, much less a death penalty case.

With us, two veteran trial lawyers representing preacher`s wife Mary Winkler, Steve Farese and Leslie Ballin.

Steve, do -- is it possible to get a bond in that jurisdiction, if the state announces they`re going to seek the death penalty?

FARESE: No. I think if they make it a capital crime, Nancy, that she would not be eligible for bond. But under the law in the state of Tennessee, they`re not required to announce that until right before trial.

GRACE: Well, there`s the rub. It`s a Catch-22. To Leslie Ballin, also Mary Winkler`s lawyer. If the state doesn`t go ahead and announce DP, then you guys are free to go ahead and try to secure this bond.

LESLIE BALLIN, ATTORNEY FOR MARY WINKLER: Well, right now, it`s not a capital case. Our client is charged with first-degree murder. That is a premeditated, cool, calculated, one free of passion type of killing. Just because it`s a first-degree murder case doesn`t make it a capital case. There has to be the existence of certain aggravating factors, at least those to be alleged by the state. In our humble opinion, there are no aggravating factors, and that`s why the state hasn`t filed such a notice. In Tennessee, she`s entitled to bond...

GRACE: Well, what about aggravating -- excuse me. What about aggravating factors three or five under the aggravating and mitigating factors? For instance, defendant knowingly created a risk to more than one person. There were the children in the home, according to police reports, at the time of the shooting. I believe there`s three little girls. Or number five, murder especially heinous, atrocious and cruel. Possibly the fact that, according to reports, the preacher was still alive, lying on the floor with a gunshot wound in his back, when she left him, and the phone cord was ripped out of the wall. Some juries may think that`s particularly heinous.

BALLIN: Well, just because some juror may think that, in doesn`t mean that that`s a fact, jack. As a matter of fact, under the facts of this case as we know them, this was not a situation where more than one person was put at risk...

GRACE: Well, I...

BALLIN: ... nor was this a homicide that was particularly heinous under that term of art as defined in our law. Just every killing is not particularly heinous. I know that`s a cruel, cold statement for me to make. Steve and I have been handling these cases for 30 years, and this case is one that we don`t see any aggravating factors.

GRACE: Well, of course, whether the death penalty is sought will be up to the local prosecutors, and they will name whatever charges they believe to support aggravating circumstances. It will then be up to a jury to make that decision.

Liz, let`s go out to the lines. Let`s go to Bonnie in North Dakota. Hi, Bonnie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I just have a question.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Mary Winkler will get her three daughters back when she gets out of jail on bond?

GRACE: I think that`s probably going to be very, very unlikely.

Let`s go out to Liz Daulton with WREC. Liz, where are the children now, the three little girls?

DAULTON: The three girls are staying with the paternal grandparents in Huntington, Tennessee. It`s an area that`s close to Selmer, and that`s where they`re at now. That`s where they`ve been since they were caught in Orange Beach, Alabama.

GRACE: What is the likelihood, Steve Farese, as much as Winkler may want to be with her children, that she would get that custody back if she makes bond?

FARESE: Well, I think that`s the second step of a process that we`re not willing to take at this point in time. One of the things that a chancellor or a judge would want to look at would be what would be in the best interest of the children. Before I did a lot of criminal work, unfortunately, I had to do a lot of domestic work. And what would be in the best interest of the children? With this situation still up in the air, it may not be in the best interests of the children to remove them from that stable home.

GRACE: Yes, the stability factor.

FARESE: Yes.

GRACE: To Michael Cardoza, veteran trial lawyer who has handled many, many cases like this. Michael, let`s just get real about it. There is no way these kids are going to go back to the mom if she`s out on bond for murder one.

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Couldn`t agree with you more. If she gets out, she will be alone. She`d be hard-pressed to even visit the kids and even -- or have the kids visit her. And even if the children are allowed to visit, believe me, it will be supervised. And I wouldn`t doubt that if the judge -- well, the judge didn`t agree to lower it, but should she make bail, there will be certain conditions on that, and that may well be one of them, that she can not be alone with those children. So that`s getting real.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She got picked on quite a few about -- you know, people call her a murderer. You know, You killed your husband and -- you know. And then I tell people, Y`all really don`t know what happened behind that story. You know, nobody personally knows. Nobody knows what God -- what really happened between her and her husband.

They picked on her as far as just saying, Well, you know, you killed your husband. She`s -- you know, and then people that don`t know nothing about her are coming off the street, haven`t been with her for a while, they`re, like, Is that the woman that killed her -- you know, killed her husband, you know? I mean, and you know, people just do things like that on a regular.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live tonight at the McNairy County Justice Center, inside housed Mary Winkler, preacher`s wife, now facing charges of murder one. The state has yet to announce whether they will seek the death penalty. As you all know by now, the preacher in this case, her husband, was found shot in the back, lying in his bedroom. By all accounts, he was alive when Mary Winkler took her three little children on a trip to the beach following the shooting.

Let`s go out to the Justice Center. Standing by, Liz Daulton with WREC. Liz, what is the evidence that the defense wants suppressed next Wednesday?

DAULTON: The defense is hoping to suppress any evidence that was found and recovered on the scene in Orange Beach, Alabama. And the reasons are because they`re wondering about the way it was obtained.

GRACE: Well, what evidence would that be, specifically? Are you talking about that .12-gauge found in the minivan she was driving, the alleged murder weapon?

DAULTON: Yes, the reports are that the weapon was in the car with the girls and the family.

GRACE: Is it true they`re also trying to suppress the statement that Mary Winkler gave police when they pulled her over?

DAULTON: That`s what the defense attorneys are hoping, that they can suppress that statement, just wanting to make sure that it`s not taken out of context.

GRACE: What do you mean, not taken out of context? How can you take a confession out of context?

DAULTON: They want to make sure that it was a confession and it wasn`t just a statement, and that it was obtained correctly by officials.

GRACE: Liz, what do we know about the confession?

DAULTON: We know from the confession that Mary Winkler...

GRACE: Hold on. You know what? I`ve got it up for the viewers. "I don`t remember going to the closet or getting the shotgun. The next thing I remember was hearing a loud boom. I remember thinking it wasn`t as loud as I thought it would be. I heard the boom, and he rolled out of the bed onto the floor, and I saw some blood on the floor and some bleeding around his mouth. I went over and wiped his mouth off with a sheet. I told him I was sorry, I loved him, and I went and ran. I do remember me holding the shotgun, hearing the boom, and then a smell. He asked me why. I just said, I`m sorry."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll always remember Matthew as a very loving, caring, enthusiastic young man who was dedicated to Christ, and he lived that life every day and practiced it in his real life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live tonight at the jail where Mary Winkler, the preacher`s wife, is being housed. We were just reading you part of her confession. It goes on. Joining me, the two defense lawyers. "That Tuesday night, we talked about our finances. I had gotten a call from the bank. We were having troubles. I was upset. He had really been on me lately, criticizing (INAUDIBLE) the things, the way I walk, what I eat, everything. It just built up to a point I was tired of it and I snapped."

Out to defense attorney Steve Farese. How are you going to get that suppressed?

FARESE: Well, first of all, that is a summary written by the police. That is not Mary`s handwriting. That is not recorded. That is not videotaped. That`s a statement they wrote as a summary, and it wasn`t a question-and-answer type summary. How are we going to get it suppressed? Well, we don`t know if we`re going to get it suppressed or not. We filed a motion...

GRACE: Right. My question is, what`s your plan to get it suppressed?

FARESE: Well, I can`t tell my plan, Nancy, because there are more than two people who watch this show. One of them may be the new prosecutor, Mr. Donovan. But our plan is to go on -- are you there, Nancy?

GRACE: Yes.

FARESE: Our plan is to go on the Constitution, to go on the law that we have considering arrest and things of that nature, which we don`t think were done in the correct manner.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mary Winkler has confessed to the murder of her husband, Matthew Winkler, shooting him on March 22, 2006, leaving Selmer with their three daughters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was, you would think, the perfect mother, the perfect wife. She brought her children to school every day. She volunteered in the school. Words can`t describe the two different personalities we`re seeing here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What led preacher`s wife Mary Winkler to gun down her husband in the bedroom of the church parsonage, then put all three little girls in the family van and head off to the Alabama panhandle for a beach vacation? According to reports, this preacher, Matthew Winkler, was still alive at the time she left him lying there, the phone cord ripped out of the wall.

Two veteran defense attorneys plan to get her out of jail ASAP, possibly as soon as Monday. They have requested a $315,000 property bond. We believe her family is trying to scrape together a property bond, the home as collateral and other funds to get her out.

Right now, a special guest joining us, going by Laquia, she has been behind bars with Mary Winkler.

Thank you for being with us, Laquia.

LAQUIA, RECENTLY IN JAIL WITH MARK WINKLER: You`re welcome.

GRACE: Tell me, what was Mary Winkler like to you behind bars?

LAQUIA: To me, I thought she was a sweet lady. I mean, personally, you know, I just -- I honestly just thought she was a sweet lady.

GRACE: Do the other inmates realize what she`s booked for?

LAQUIA: They know what she`s booked for, but, I mean, when you get in there, you don`t judge each other like that.

GRACE: Do people ask her about it? Do they try to get her to talk about?

LAQUIA: They do, but she refuses.

GRACE: What does she do?

LAQUIA: She just walks away from them and goes in her cell.

GRACE: Did you guys have a TV there? Would they tell her when she was on TV?

LAQUIA: Yes, they announced a lot, beating on the windows and things, you know, hollering, "Mary Winkler, you`re on TV," and things like that, and she would just walk away and go into her cell.

GRACE: Has Ms. Winkler become somewhat of a celebrity there in the jail?

LAQUIA: I would say yes and no. You know, because, you know, we look at it like, well, if you done it, you did, if you didn`t, you didn`t, you know? We don`t -- celeb, yes, because of the way she got treated.

GRACE: How was she treated?

LAQUIA: I don`t know. She get favoritism sometimes from some of the jailers, and sometimes she wouldn`t, all depending on who was on duty.

GRACE: What kind of favoritism?

LAQUIA: As far as -- I don`t know. She`s getting more, like, privilege-wise. She would get privilege, you know, that everybody else wouldn`t get, as far as -- how can I say -- I mean, there`s not much you can do in that jail, but, I mean, it just had their peaks. You know, when somebody gets locked down, she might get the privilege of staying out, things like that.

GRACE: When you were around the preacher`s wife, what was her mood? Was she upbeat, sad, remorseful, what?

LAQUIA: It depended on the day. It actually depended on the day. I mean, some mornings she`d wake up in a good mood; some mornings she`d be all down and depressed. Church, we go to church, sometimes she`d participate and sometimes she didn`t.

GRACE: Did you ever hear Winkler say she was sorry about what happened?

LAQUIA: All I`ve ever heard Mary Winkler say about the situation is she`s sorry that it happened, but I`ve never -- no, as far as her saying that she done it, no, I never heard that.

GRACE: But she said she was sorry about it?

LAQUIA: She`s sorry that the situation happened. That`s all I`ve ever heard her say.

GRACE: Did she ever talk about her dead husband?

LAQUIA: Not much. She talked about her little girls more than anything.

GRACE: Is she upset that they`ve only visited one time in six months?

LAQUIA: Yes, she`s pretty hurt by that. She says she don`t know whether they`re just keeping the kids from her, you know. All she`s ever really mentioned is, "I wish I could see my kids. I wish I could be with my children."

GRACE: Did it ever dawn on her it may be because they don`t want the little girls to have to go to jail?

LAQUIA: Personally, I would think so. I mean, I didn`t see my kids that much when I was locked up.

GRACE: What is her reputation behind bars? Is she easy to get along with? Does she keep to herself? Does she socialize?

LAQUIA: She socializes when everybody`s out of the pod.

GRACE: In what way?

LAQUIA: Well, she talks to people, you know, just everyday conversation, "How are you doing today?" Things like that. If she was, you know, in an ill mood, she`d let you know and she`d just go on about her business.

GRACE: Does everybody has chores, or do you get to read magazines, newspapers, watch TV?

LAQUIA: The most you can do in that jail is write a letter. And if you got somebody to call, you call them, and you play cards with each others and things like that. But as far as every day getting out and doing things, no, not there.

GRACE: But they do have a TV?

LAQUIA: Yes, there is a TV. There is a TV in each pod.

GRACE: What do you watch?

LAQUIA: The seven channels -- what is it, seven channel news? Channel Seven News, my bad.

GRACE: The local channel?

LAQUIA: Yes, that`s the only channel you get.

GRACE: So all day long it would be, like, the news, and soap operas, and at night...

LAQUIA: Yes, yes.

GRACE: What time...

LAQUIA: Well, during the day, we watch whatever comes on in the morning and then, you know, we watch the soap operas from 12:00 to 2:00. And then, after that, we watch Oprah and Dr. Phil, or Dr. Phil and Oprah, however it goes, and that`s it. I mean, what ever comes on...

GRACE: How much visitation, Laquia, how much visitation do you get?

LAQUIA: My understanding, I mean, I always got an hour when I was there.

GRACE: An hour a day?

LAQUIA: No, an hour on Saturdays...

GRACE: An hour on Saturdays?

LAQUIA: No, Sundays, my bad. Visitation is on Sunday.

GRACE: Do you get to see your lawyer whenever they come?

LAQUIA: I`m understanding she always did. I mean, I don`t know if everybody got an opportunity to see their lawyer every time they came, but my understanding is she seen her lawyer every time he came.

GRACE: The doors to the cells, do they stay locked all day or do you get to go in and out of the pod?

LAQUIA: No, you don`t go in and out of the pod. They pop the doors at 6:00 in the morning for you to get your meals. And once you get your breakfast meal in the morning, you go back into your pod and close your doors, but your cells are open from 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning to 10:00 at night.

GRACE: And can you visit with the other ladies all the way through the day?

LAQUIA: No, you can not.

GRACE: Can not.

LAQUIA: No.

GRACE: When you say pod, what do you mean?

Everyone, you are seeing exclusive video of McNairy Justice Center, where preacher`s wife Mary Winkler is being housed tonight. According to the chaplain there, she has just finished her dinner -- do we have that menu, Liz? -- and is now resting in her room. The book-in photo also taken there at McNairy County Justice Center.

We are speaking with Laquia, recently behind bars with Mary Winkler. Explain to me about the pod -- oh, there we go, hanger steak, that sounds good. Baked beans, baked potato salad, bread, Kool-Aid or tea. Sounds like a pretty good dinner to me, Laquia.

LAQUIA: Sickening.

GRACE: I don`t know. I don`t know if I`d turn down a hanger steak about right now. So the pod, how is that set up, Laquia?

LAQUIA: They`re set up in four pods. There`s a trustee (ph) pod, and then there`s the pod where the other ladies that are incarcerated are put. It ranges from D pod to F pod -- no, G pod, my bad...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Did you ever see her break down in tears, upset about it?

LAQUIA: Maybe once in church.

GRACE: One time?

LAQUIA: Once in church, when we were on the subject about our children and things like that, she would cry. You know, she`d sit there in tears for a second and then she`d just get up and walk into her cell.

GRACE: And that was once?

LAQUIA: That`s the only time I ever seen her just break down.

GRACE: Joining us, a recent inmate of Mary Winkler`s. And, Laquia, it`s my understanding you had a drug charge?

LAQUIA: Yes.

GRACE: Thank you for being with us.

LAQUIA: You`re welcome.

GRACE: You are seeing exclusive video of where Mary Winkler lives now. It`s a far cry from the church parsonage where she left her husband lying, dying on the bedroom floor.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just the most -- the nicest person you could ever expect to meet. He was fun to work with. He was outgoing, enthusiastic, always gave you a big smile and a big hug when you came in, and he was just so pleasant to be around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This is exclusive video of the new pastor that`s going to take over the Fourth Street Church of God there in Selmer, Tennessee. His name is Jeremy Weekley. He`s got quite a task ahead of him to fill that pulpit. Matthew Winkler gunned down by his wife, Mary Winkler, now facing murder one charges. So far, they don`t plan to move into the parsonage.

Here`s a shot of Freed-Hardeman University there in Tennessee where Matthew Winkler met his wife and killer. The two fell in love. He became a pastor, and she became a preacher`s wife. It all ended abruptly in March, with reports that she had gunned her husband down.

Back to a special guest joining us there outside the McNairy Justice Center, the chaplain, Blake Carroll.

Sir, thank you for being with us again. I want to talk about what we`ve just learned from inmate Laquia. Who are the ladies that are being held there? Are there violent felons behind bars?

CARROLL: Nancy, it is -- I have been made aware, I should say, that there are inmates in this particular jail who are in there because of drug- related activity, as well as criminal activity, such as burglary and theft.

GRACE: Why is it, Chaplain, that they have to eat in their cell?

CARROLL: Well, I don`t particularly know the specifics of that, Nancy. I believe they`re able to eat in their cell or they`re able to come out in their pod or their day room and also eat, as well. However, I don`t know that for 100 percent fact.

GRACE: Chaplain, do they get chores there in the jail?

CARROLL: There are particular ladies and men who serve as trustees that get out under supervision and do perform community service.

GRACE: Chaplain, have you gotten -- have you ever visited with her?

CARROLL: I have never visited with Mary Winkler. However, I was given a formal tour of the jail this week because of the fact I`ve only been serving in this capacity for the last three weeks. I had a formal tour of the jail, did get to see her pod. However, Ms. Winkler was in her cell resting at the time.

GRACE: So how do they get to visit with their church preachers? I believe the Church of Christ preacher would be able to come visit her?

CARROLL: Only on visitation days, which is Sunday between the hours of 10:30 and 3:30 p.m. And it is my understanding that he can only come see her if she requests it, because only males can minister to males and females can minister to females.

GRACE: Joining us there outside the McNairy Justice Center, a special guest, Chaplain Blake Carroll, who is ministering to the ladies behind bars.

Out to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, Bethany, we`ve learned a lot tonight.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Yes.

GRACE: We`ve learned that she sleeps all the time, very rarely is seen crying or showing any remorse, focuses mostly on, "Why can`t I see my kids?" And we also learned that she told police that her husband nagged at her. I mean, there`s no discussion of physical abuse.

At first we all thought, "Oh, did he molest the kids? Did he beat her? What was wrong with him? Why did she do this thing?" It`s turning into a very, very different picture, Bethany.

MARSHALL: Yes. Well, I think the public, we`re all desperate to find some plausible explanation, but the real truth is that she is a typical perpetrator, and perpetrators, and homicidal perpetrators in particular, they always relate to the victim with persecutory distress.

And by that I mean, when they`re held to the standards of normal adult behavior, they feel criticized and attacked. Or when they`re asked to behave like a normal human being, they act as if they`ve received a verbal barrage or a verbal onslaught.

And what`s interesting is that, the day before she killed her husband was the first day at work, so she may have felt attacked just by the demands of having to work. And then she was involved in the check scam, that probably there were checks bouncing, and she may have felt attacked when he said, "Look, honey, you know, what happened with the checks?"

So really I think she wanted to obliterate him by shooting him in the back, because she couldn`t bear to experience the bad feelings by being required to show up and be human, basically, in a normal way.

GRACE: It`s interesting that she then allegedly put the kids in the car and went off to a beach vacation.

MARSHALL: Well, it shows a profound state of detachment. I mean, she had a very shallow attachment to him. I mean, Pam Killingsworth, your earlier guest, mentioned that she talks about everything other than but her husband, but if she was really attached to him and attached to the children, she`d be showing great remorse at this point.

I mean, I think she knew the jig was up on some level and she was going to see if she could get as far as she could before being caught.

GRACE: Joining us, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst.

Out to Donna Rosato, staff writer with "Money" magazine, Donna, I`ve been trying to get a handle on this Nigerian scheme that got them apparently into so much financial trouble. What is that? Is that like the e-mails you get on your AOL, where they tell you, you can get a whole lot of money if you send them money first?

DONNA ROSATO, "MONEY MAGAZINE": That`s one form. It`s actually called -- another name for it is the advanced fee fraud. And you can get it by a fax, a letter, but really, most typically, today you get it by e- mail, and that`s where somebody reaches out to you and pretends to be a government official or a businessman in a foreign country.

And they appeal to you. They say they need your help to transfer funds out of the country because of some legal problems. And, in exchange for your help, then you`ll get a cut -- you have to pay a transfer fee, and you`ll get a cut of the money. And it`s called an advance fee fraud, and it`s very common. It`s more common than you might think.

GRACE: And, apparently, she got some check from a Nigerian scam, and she deposited it and started writing checks on it. That, at least, is what reports say, and the check was no good.

ROSATO: That`s right. That`s very common. One form is that they will send you what looks to be a real check, but is a counterfeit check, and they ask you to deposit that money into your bank account and then you keep a portion of it and send it back to them. But really it`s counterfeit, and then when you send the money back to them, you`re on the hook for the money, and you`re really money laundering for these people.

GRACE: To Bush Robertson, private investigator, apparently the caliber was a .20-gauge, and the weapon was still in the car, the minivan. What kind of damage does a .20-gauge do to a human body? Excuse me, .12- gauge.

BUSH ROBERTSON, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, a .20-gauge is a powerful shotgun -- well, OK, a .12-gauge is a much more powerful shotgun. Apparently, it was used for turkey hunting. The coroner indicated that there were over 77 pellets in there, number six-sized shot pellets. These are a bit larger than B.B.`s. The indication was that it was fired at close range, anywhere from two to seven feet. That can do a lot of damage. A .12-gauge shotgun is a powerful weapon.

GRACE: To Michael Cardoza, Michael, how in the heck can the defense hope to get the weapon ruled out of evidence?

CARDOZA: Well, it was found in the car. It depends, you know, how they stopped her, what they stopped her for. Did they search before they knew who she was? I mean, it`s a typical search and seizure. Legally, they have to try to keep it out. It`s their obligation. They probably will not successfully do it, but they`ve at least got to try.

I`d like to hear their theories on it. Those are the only theories I can think of without knowing all the facts of the case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard her actually say that she`s sorry for what did happen, but she never actually said she was sorry that she done it. All she ever says was she`s sorry that the situation happened. And, you know, she misses her kids and her husband dearly. But, you know, she never went into details actually about what occurred. I`m guessing her lawyer told her not to say anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are seeing a shot of the church.

Out to Pam Killingsworth, a dear friend of Mary Winkler, I want to ask you about the parsonage. Is it true that the new preacher will not be moving into the parsonage?

KILLINGSWORTH: That`s correct.

GRACE: Why?

KILLINGSWORTH: I really don`t know.

GRACE: Is the church going to put him up somewhere else?

KILLINGSWORTH: He has a house allowance.

GRACE: OK. So no one at this juncture has moved back into the parsonage? It`s my understanding, Ms. Killingsworth, that Matthew Winkler`s car is still parked there, the furniture is still in there, nothing has been moved.

KILLINGSWORTH: I`m not sure, because I haven`t been up to the house, and I have definitely not been in it, so I`m not sure.

GRACE: Have you met the new pastor yet?

KILLINGSWORTH: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Everyone, tonight, Mary Winkler behind bars at the McNairy Justice Center. She is waiting for a court date. Her trial set at the end of October. Liz Daulton in court next week on Wednesday, what do you expect?

DAULTON: I expect the defense attorneys to come with a hefty caseload of how they expect to suppress this evidence.

GRACE: We`ll be back on it on Wednesday, everyone. We`re saying goodbye to a live shot there at McNairy Justice Center. Behind those prison walls, Mary Winkler.

Let`s stop to remember, everyone, Army Captain Douglas Dicenzo, just 30, from Plymouth, New Hampshire, a West Point grad, dreamed of joining the military since high school. He was a newlywed and leaves behind a grieving widow and toddler son. Douglas Dicenzo, American hero.

Thank you to all of our guests. Our biggest thank you, to you for being with us tonight. A special goodnight from the New York control room. Goodnight, everybody. And our prayers and thoughts out to the family of Church of Christ preacher Matthew Winkler.

Nancy Grace signing off until Monday, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Goodnight, friend.

END

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